READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE 10 Tue UNITED stATES DISTRICT COURT FORTHE SOUTHERN STRICT OF TEAS PAIAPAS INC: ANDITS FIVE ULDCR HIRE Le Pit, COTY OF KEMAH, TEXAS, (ORAL AND Vibe DEFOSITION OF (CARL IONER eso eine fe Pid uo ‘stats shovel ont mice e214 (tb Sas ton so pm 0 pa, Ne Sha, iat ¢SH, ante Sua eae reprs Stopol a Kemah Cy Hal A Se ghey 146, evak Tes 1745 pono Not he Fol Rt of (Grecotel teva sateen ea ‘ented 3 APPEARANCES stotnolD roa mie nian x Sto rare Sr. cone Bote ee eae 32200 eM amar a tent icm vox’ PENDANT er tiers Roe i she Wsoaan « sum tte Gen Ps Se 8 ier ‘eae Snare etme Flatmates om cnt ibeoorsene oben ‘Set pring ess Vil seen Tosi toes 7000 Sopa is arsio0 rete sapedene * Peale ot a6 Alsonssesr % vclnnaneg Ae nGrlie, te esl eyous - Caudle hook HR AB.liey 1 flo on Tike ner Menton ¢ xeehedy Fine Mh Tr wus ey HED, Te penile Sinai poet me 1 ‘Whereupon, the reading of the introduction ino the record, pursuant to Rule 30(0XS), by the reporter, was waived by all counsel present) ‘THE REPORTER: Stipulations on the record? MR. HELFAND: Federal Rules of Civil, Procedure. MR. KILPATRICK: Yeah. ‘THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record on July 21, 2022, at 1:10 pam, beginning Cand I ‘CARL JOINER, Having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. KILPATRICK: Q Good aftemoon, Mr. Joiner. I'm Brian Kilpatrick, ‘and you = you understand I represent the plait inthis lawsuit? A Yes. Q Okay. just want to go over some ground rules. Have you given your deposition before? Have I given one? Yes. Yes. ‘Okay. Approximately, how many times? Less than five. ‘Less than five? Ororo> READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE, A Yeah. Q_ Okay. And what was — Were you a partyin the Jawsuit in which you gave a dep deposition, an attorney — any of those depositions? ‘A. Wewere suing, Q Okay. ‘A. My wife and L Q Okay. So you understand the— basically, how it ‘works, fm going o ask questions, you ~ and you wat ti | finish my question before you give an answer, so We have a lear record, A Yes, Q_ Okay. And so tm going to be referring to the ‘property or Palapas and you understand Im referring to 606, and 608 6th Stet, in Kemah, Texas? A Yes. Q Okay. And when [refer to "defendant," fm, ‘obviously, r= referring tothe City of Kemah, And the plaintiffs are the ~ the thre pls in this lawsuit, ‘TSW Holding Company, LLC, Palapas, Ine, and I's Five O'Closk ~ MR. HELFAND: Here. Q =Here- MR. KILPATRICK: Yeah Q. =I 5:00 OCloek Here, LLC. So re A Yeu Q_ What company was that? A. The Klein Parmership. © Okay. And what — what typeof properties did — Aid you des~ or or what type of buildings did you design ordevelon? A” Wel, when you're fist starting out, you're not ‘designing anything. You're — 2 Oy, A. —maybe, doing — working drawings or whatever. ‘But The Klein Partnership is where I started my ‘apprenticeship. Tobe a reystered architect, you have to havea five-year degree and then work for three years for a firm before you can fake your exam, So I started at ‘The Klein Partnership; nd the di, mostly, hospitals. Okay. And, curently, now, what ype of architecture work do you do? A Well, we've had our frm for forty-five years but {fm in the process of selling our firm, and so I'm not active in the day-to-day business. Pun more ofa PR person. Bat we had been doing schools and municipal work for aver forty years @ Okay. What school districts and municipalities have you worked for? A. All the way up to Huntsville, Wiis, Humble, refer to those tre as "he plain." Okay? ‘Now ~ Okay. Tellme ine bit abou your background. Where did you~ Where'd you got college and any postgraduate studi you have? ‘A. Grew up in Kansas. I went to Unversity of Kansas. ‘Moved to Houston in 1973. Moved to Lake Charles, Lo Jn 1977. Came back tothe Houston area, in Kingwood, is 1983, Raised our family in Kingwood. Inthe late 90s, when four kids were out of high school, we started coming down here, onthe weekends nd, eventually ull weekend home ‘And since then, have sold our Kingwood house and ive here ful cane @ Okay. And do you ~ do you have any professional license rcetfieaton, designations, things of that satus? A. Yes:I'ma registered architect in Texas. Q Okay. And any oer profesional cenifcations designations in connection with that? ‘A. National Counel of Architectural Registration Board, American tnstitate of Architects @ Okay. And so do you kt —lets—how — how id you get ~ Where did you startin the architecture practice? ‘A. In Houston. Okay. Did you work for another company? 8 Houston, Cy-Fair, Hitchcock, Clear Creek. There's probably some more but that's what I know right now. © Okay, And City of Kemal? A. vedone no work for City of Kemah. Q Okay. Who ~ What architect architecture firm, designed the City Hall building that were insight now? A. Okay. So there's two buildings here. I'm mot sure about over there. This one was done hy x lcal architect here in Kemah. For some reason, can't remember his name. (Q Thats okay. So theater building? A. Yeah Ihave no idea who did ~ That was done back. before my time in Kemah @ Okay. Bs there a company called ~ named Duron Test? |A Yeah, that's a contractor, ub-huh Q Okay. You ~ You det work fr Duron Tech? ‘A. Na. They're construction company. Q Otay. Does your rchitetre frm do work or thent? A. They have been the contractor ow 4 number af ur projects that we were the architect on Q Okay. Okay. Soto prepare for your deposition today, did you review any documents? A Ne Q No? READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE. A No. Q Did you tlk to anyone? mean, other than Mr. Helfand, A No. Q_ So.do.you feel lke you have a good recollection of ‘what transpired since you became Mayor through today? ‘A. Just let me say this, that Thad very litte input ‘on this project @ Onthe A. = when came. Q Onthe Palapas? A Yeah, right. Q Okay. So who withthe Cty was kindof, I guess, you ean say taking the lead on the Palapas project? A. Waller Gant. Q Okay. A The City Administrator Q And so what was — what was he doing in connection with the Palapas project and the permits? MR. HELFAND: Objection, calls for speculation, & ‘A. Again, that’s 1 day-to-day operation. I'm the Mayor. I don't get into that. Q. Okay, But you~ It It vas your understanding, ‘he was taking the lead on the Palapas project. 10 ‘MR. HELFAND: Objection, cll for speculation; assumes facts notin evidence. ‘THE WITNESS: Do I ned to answer? MIR. HELFAND: And, aso, vague as to "he Palapas project.” MR. KILPATRICK: Oh. Well,msorry. He~ He rfirad tot as "he ~ the ~the project." so— MR. HELFAND: I know, but he dia't — MR. KILPATRICK: Well MR. HELFAND: ~ refer to tas “the Palapas project” And it doesst mutier what hesaid. Your question is vague ‘Again, don't talk to me, jus ask another «question o et him ask one thats ~ that’s ed, ether way. Q Dont worry. You You ean answer the question, So it was your under understanding Me. Gant was faking the lead with respect to the Plapas propery? A Walter Gants our City Administrator and is over permitting, public works, and that's why assume he was In charge. Q Olay. What about ~ Let’ see. So did you look ‘through your emails to prepare for today’? A Ne. Q No. So... Hold on. Okay. So when you became — ‘You were clected Mayor in May of 2021. Is that cower? A. Correct © Souler you tok offi, what were the primary jects that you wanted to accomplish a Mayor? ‘A Tomake sure Maritage project moved forward; get ‘our Evergreen Memorial Parkway paved; carry ont our drainage ‘study; and meet with Counel and work together te develop a strategic ~ strategic plan for Kemal, Okay, What abou shorts rentals? A That wasn't in my plan for the City. Okay, How abou with espct fod wack? A Wasa in my pla (© Okay. Arsome point id the City crste short-term etal subeormitc? A. Yess Twas ot om it Okay. Who was on the ~ the subsommince? A. Youknow, tim Im net totally sre. just no ‘that Teresa Vazquer Evans, our ~ 4 Counell member, wa, ‘think, was head oF. Okay. And wes War Gant onthe short-term rn subeommitas? A. Tm nt sure. (Q And what abou Brandon Shoat? A. Venn sure. Q. Okay. How many tims have you been elected Mayor ot Kea? A. Thro times. Okay. And when ~ what you were lected Mayor? 201s, ‘Okay. And the second? wr. ‘And the third was 20212 Ubshuh, (Okay. Okay. And who ~ who were your opponents in cach of thas lections? A In 2015, Bob Cummings; 2017, didn’t have an ‘opponent; and in 2021, i was Terri Galland Matt Wiggin. Q Otay, Okay. So the How would you characterize the campaign season lading up othe election in 2021, between you, Terri Gail and Mat Wiggins? A Contentious. Q Okay. What What ypes of things were happening ‘that mode it contentious? ‘A. Negative emails, negative billboards, those types oF things. Q Okay. And out~ out outside ofthe campaign season, were there any disputes between you and Tet Gail before yall were running against cach other? A - when as the frst ime ororor READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE wees {om that pant on, we hada been friends 1 enforcement? Okay. Now who was tht ero? [2 @ aimee 4 DOP ky. Lessee. is init ex Olay. Thats ay. What ~ What was the What 4+ sorry— Exhibit 5, Pm handing you whats been marked as asthe ble hat tes she thous about Ronis? 5 Eahbi A Tobesure, I'm not sure. . MR. HELFAND; Lets jst put on the ead Q Otay. And what abo etre he campign season in 7 da Ebb is What was that ub, again? Can Tsce the 2021 deton dd you have any disp with Ma hat for one second, Mayer Wiesins? : "THE WITNESS, Swe ‘A. Before the'21? He had turned ia 2019 forthe same | (MR HELFAND: Thanks, Exhibit Sis Kemah 84 reason that Terr turned that did't support their | 8 and $35, Thanks. candidate, 2 Q Okay. The ~The just handed Exhibit 5, which Q Okay, Soasthe Mayor, ell me what what yu do 2 ied "Perfomance inpovement Plan"? cma day-to-day basis «A unt A” Well this is strong Mayor city and i's — 1m 3 Well in etme usta you, Whats volnter nonpaid. So for the most par, mherconcea | perfomance improvement plan? ‘reek daring the afternoons, communicate with our Ciy——| "A. In hls particular ease, Connci askd to review Administrator and out Police Chic: and then prepare for Walter Gant amd come up with some things that he could Council metings, and, occasionally, might sit in on a "improve on: and as Mayor, Iwas the one responsible to—to meting. 2 signte (Q Okay. Sowhat ypexof things do you go oer with 31 "Q Olay. So who who drafted this document? ‘the Cy Adminsrtr ttht meting cach week? = A Pmassuming the City Seeretary. I don't recall. ‘A Well So our City government, again, sastrong |. Okay. And this was ~ Ifyou leuk dow its Mayor. I'm over the Chey Admiabtrator and ihe Police Chet, | isto Waller Gant City Administ fen you, Cart “That'st. City Administrator's over the City Hall side, | doin as Mayor, dated February, 2022, And it sans 16 1 offby saying, "Over Over the course of your assignment as 2 City Adminsrator, Police Chie ofthe Cty of Kea, which 2 begun October 1, 2019 and Octobe st, 2021, was mifed esponabityt carry out. + waszue oly the — only te dies of City Admini, ‘Q. Olay. Ain wien you sys a "a tong 5 thas become increasingly evden tht you have not been Mayor" — "Kemal song Mayor iy" what what do you | © perfoming your asianed work in accordance with what is scan by hat? 7 expected of you” |A. Wel Im the CEO ofthe Gi * “and itsays "You have fied adres major Q Okay. Ando by contrast, wa would be 9 deficenis within the City's depatnens andor dies vwcak Mayor city and how shat different? 1 dieeuves given by the Mayer ane Cy Come ‘A. Well the other ane would he City Manager form af | ‘And then wien you go farther down, ther a ist government, | © ftom stating with em No, 1th "You have ied at Okay. And so with espe to mates involving, | times to follow Mayors, Counc dieting,” and you ge ~ ‘you know, Building Code enforcement, what oe do you playin | | itgves alist of tree examples that = ws ‘What as = What was Just sas bigar ‘A (None) © 1 picture, what was the major problem with Walter Gants Q = inenforeement tions? performance? AcgNamea) a " IMR. HELEAND: Objection, vague aso “nse Oty, probes” Halo assumes facts nt in evidence that there Ahad taf for that, > Q Okay. Soare ther any types of code enforcement setions that require your approval? | 4. Ne @ de—Doyeusvedinaivewoeciy — PEF ‘Administrator with respect to matters relating to code. V Ke we ‘was a major problem. Q You can sill answer A. Again, this isa Counel directive. You know, as Mayor, I don't vote. mm responsible for carrying out their ‘actions by signing this document. @ Okay. Well one ~ one ofthe things on here, lem READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE. ” number ~I =I guess, under 1-C, it says, "You ~ You 19 without properly evaluating documents in a timely manner,” 2 failed ~ You have filed at tims to follow Mayor, Council's >and that one goes na litle bit more 3 directives, including” ~ And one of which was, “including , "No. 3, "Lack of any explanation of how to ~ how + Brandon Shoat'in te short-term rental subeommiti, when + proposed ternational Cade changes vary from prior year’s 5 askod not to include him." Did I read tha eorectly? 5 codes and why it's necessary to change now. This shows lack © Ok Yes © of quality contol ofthe agenda" 7 Q. Whoasked Walter Gant not to ~ to not include , "Lack of responses from billing department and ® Brandon Shoat in the §—orher staff members to emails fom Council ~ Council or © x Twas’ there — told, "Yes, wel follow up oni and then no response for © Q- = short-term rental? 1 Jong periods of ime.” 1 A and 1 woulda't know. u "Lack of communication with Council regarding how © Q Okay, But you dont ~ you~ I mean, you — you 2 Brandon Shoaf became the Fire Marshal; and further, the © did — You signed this and did send it to Walter Gant > hing of Brandon as the building oficial, when he lacked Comer? credentials forthe position; and then, even aftr a year A Right, |S passed, Brandon sil lacks the credentials to perform asthe % —Q_ Okay. Soyou dont dispute that somebody asked. on | 1 building official” Did I rea all hat correctly? 1 the Cty Council, fr him not tobe on the sub on the mA Yes. © subcommiter. Do you~ Do you agree with those statements? » MR. HELFAND: Objection, speculation. © A. You'l notice, Council sisted in here, not ® A This was reviewed by the City Attorney, and lwas | 3) Mayor. 21 instructed to sign it. 2 MR. HELFAND: And just forthe record, hes 2 Q Okay. Sof you~ Do you disagree with any of 2 saying, “Council” C--L, not counsel, S-E-L, sinc the Ci ® the Well~ And take your time wo look it over, butde you | Atlomey was also involved. 2% disagree wth any of the statements inthis document? » ‘THE WITNESS: Right, s MR HELFAND: I'm sorry. That would cal for » MR. KILPATRICK: Yeah 18 20 1 him to speculate; and assumes facts notin evidence that he ' ‘THE WITNESS: Both. 2 asthe background to agree or disagree. 2 MR. HELFAND: Right. 3 But ifyou have, you can centainy tll him , THE WITNESS: Yes, sr. + anywhere where you agree or disagree. ‘ MR. KILPATRICK: Okay. A Again, this 4 Count document, and I was 5 THE WITNESS: But, "te" —“the" — © instructed t sgn it. Iwas in om the mecting when this was MR. HELFAND: So this is. 7 discussed, but again, don't vote. I'sa— ? THE WITNESS: ~ "Council," is what it says SQ Okay. righ ° ——& ~Couneil document, basially. ° MR. HELFAND: This is ~ © Q_ Okay. So what ~So.a majority ofthe Council w ‘THE WITNESS: ~ here. 1 members have w vote to approve this. Is that corer? " MR. HELFAND: Right Bk Yew 2 ‘THE WITNESS: C-LL, ®—Q Okay. So when was that vote held? 8 MR. HELFAND: Thats Council, CHL. Yes, 4A Lon’ reall. 4 MR. KILPATRICK: Right. 15 Q Would ithave been ta City Council meeting? s MR. HELPAND: Thats what I wanted to make A twould have had tobe, yes. 8 lear. 7 Q Okay. " MR. KILPATRICK: Right. Ubon, 6 ‘THE WITNESS: Yeah. © Q Andi you got the second page, under A. it says, © —— Q So~So you are— you are-- You've sat in — % “Under your supervision, the following known deficiencies 2 n= im the meetings where all these issues were discussed, 21 existed in the building department and were not addressed in 4 Correct? = atimely manner, including but not limited wo absence of 2A Correct. 2 procedures for information, minimum requirements needed for | Okay. And — Well, as —as the Mayor, was that 2 permits, absence of procedures for Council consideration of 2 your impression of Brandon Shoaf's and Walter Gant’s ‘variances or plat approvals allowing items onthe agenda performance? READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE.READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE 21 ‘A Again, 1-1 was not involved, really, in the conversation. Okay? Q Well Okay, But~ Well ~ But you, as the 28, the Mayor, implement what the — just ike wen — bow you signed this document, you'd implement what the votes on and approves. Correct? A. Right Q Okay. ‘A. And, again, I don't vote. Q Right. And - And you aversce the City ‘Administrator, Correct? A. Correct, Q And you oversce the building oficial A No. Q Okay. Who oversees the building official?” A Q City Administrator. (Okay. So with respect to permitting Building Code and extifiates of o-~ of occupancy issues, what role do _you play in the decision-making with respect to issuance or Q ~of those things? None? A Q Okay. So thas solely the City Administrator's dlty or that that ~ that’s ~ that falls under his authori”? A Yes @ Olay. And wha if what ithe ~ What it ther’ a difference of — in agreement between City Coun and City Adminstrator? A Inference to what? Q If—Forexample, fa stop work orders issued on a~on project by the ~ and ~and ity Administrator tells the building oil wo to eda a building. If the City Council disagrees with that decision, how is that handled? ‘A. Wall number one, it would have to come and be on the ~ the agenda and someone would have to put tn the agenda, Q Okay A. Okay? So Trying to think wht the policy says— But I don't reall ight nom, since Ive Been Mayor, where Council is overridden. ‘Q Otay. Sof the building oficial evokes the ceritcate of occupancy, fr example that would ave tobe approve by Council? ‘A No. Q Oy. MR. HELFAND: Let me object That calls fora legal conclusion, bythe way. But your answer's fn. 23 Okay, Then, who — who makes that decision? Of revoking? Of revoking the cert~ certificate ~ It woubd come from — ~of occupancy, ~ the permitting department, And who - who isin charge ofthe permitting department? ‘A. Walter Gant. @ The City Administrator ~ A. Uh-huh. Q. — Walter Gant? Okay. So the building official would have to geta (MR. KILPATRICK: Doesit mean it det jf 30 32 ‘the Judge on the phone. x happen. MR. KILPATRICK: Otay. MR. HELFAND: Hang on. Pl gett for you~ Every time you dort know what youre doing, you want to threaten me with geting the Judge om the phone. Well, et him on the pone. MR. KILPATRICK: Look, I mean, you're notorious fr this, as Judge Hoyt called you, you know, an bstructionist and, you know, perjuring yourself ‘Youire — And I've talked to other lawyers, youre ~ youre MR. HELFAND: Me. Kilpatick — MR. KILPATRICK: ~ for this, and Im not — Frm not going to let you doit at my deposition, MR. HELFAND: Mr. Kilpatrick, your ad hominem ‘means nothing tome. You cat be insulted by someone you oni respect. MR. KILPATRICK: Its undeniable. -MR. HELFAND: Tart be~ You ca insult ‘me because I dont respect your opinion. You have = MR. KILPATRICK: It wasot my opinion, MR. HELFAND: — no bass. (MR. KILPATRICK: It was Judge Hoyt and ~ and thor lawyers in your case, so. MR. HELFAND: You Obviously, you dont know MR. HELFAND: Have you talked to Judge Hoyt about his opinion? MR. KILPATRICK: Did that really happen? MR. HELFAND: Have you talked t0 ~ No. ‘That's why it~ MR. KILPATRICK: ~ rally happened. MR. HELFAND: ~ it was vacated. Have you talked to Judge Hoyt about i? MR. KILPATRICK: No, I read his Order — MR. HELFAND: You're on the record saying — MR. KILPATRICK: ~ and his findings of fact MR. HELFAND: ~ saying, "This is what Judge Hoyt thinks.” ‘MR, KILPATRICK: That's what his Findings of facts and — MR. HELFAND: Tknow and respoct Judge ~ ‘MR. KILPATRICK: — conclusions of law say. MR. HELFAND: No, it doestit. Listen. Stop talking fora second. [know what Judge Hoyt thinks ‘cause he and Ihave talked about this. You havent you want me to go show Judge Hoyt that youre out in the community telling people what he thinks, you got a record of saying that, be happy todo that (Otherwise, you might want 0 ask Judge Hoyt what he thinks READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE a about ~ MR. KILPATRICK: The oly reason — MR. HELFAND: —before— MR. KILPATRICK: The only reason that exme up {inthe first deposition, you asked what - what basis Ihave to sy that, and I said ve read Judge Hoyts Order ~ ‘MR. HELFAND: You have — You ~ MR. KILPATRICK: ~ from the "Tolle ~ from the “Tollat versus City of Kemah" case. MR. HELFAND: Me Kilpatick, you~ ‘There's ~ There's nothing about this proceeding thet {involves you making personal attacks on opposing counsel (MR. KILPATRICK: You asked and I answered Otay? IMR. HELFAND: No, Lasked you to sop, (MR, KILPATRICK: 1 wil stop, MR’ HELFAND: Idd not — MR. KILPATRICK: tim asking you o sop. MR. HELFAND: You ksep—No. You keep making 35 to locate answer.) MR, HELFAND: Do you have some questions for hima while you're waiting forthe Judge? MR. KILPATRICK: Well she just found the spot, Hang on. Well give ita second, I guess (Whereupon, briefly ofT the record) MR. HELFAND: I nced the court reporter to put this on the record, pease “This isthe thin time — MR. KILPATRICK: Let me say what I said. 1 {ust ned your cooperation, and T need you to follow the Rules and I~ all Lask is that you don' answer the question for your witness and to state facts that you want Your ~ the witness to say because that's improper and ‘does Follow the Rules. MR. HELFAND: I have not dont have to worry about that MR. KILPATRICK: Just — MR. HELFAND: What 1~ Mr. Kilpatick, it's > personal tacks. Ig it store ofan isc. 1 2% mytuntoialk, Sop aking 2 underatand . eam ce ou saling while were ling 2 Tye told yay sho suspend the 2 MR KILPATRICK: No. Your” ® deposion nde Rule 30 to preset anton tte Cou, = MIR. HELFAND: Sots akiy 2 youmay dos. Ifyou wish tocontinue aking the Mayer a IMR. KILPATRICK: Your hans ae shaking ight {uotons, you may dos, but we re not ping ost here 3 mow "tno, ober ask moe questions or suspend he » | 6 a ‘MR. HELFAND: Yeah, 1 ~ Well, I'm old. | ' deposition as the Rules permit 2 MR KILPATRICK: and you kep picking up| TMR. KILPATRICK: | woul prefer dat we work 2 ether enti that dort have blr th wines, ying 2 thisout together without ving waste the Cours time 4 topet—meower questions forhim. fs the mest 4 becaueits very dpe, All making i dont answer + imppropt thing ve ser, 5 thequstion fr our ites, dn sift ie you id . ‘MR. HELFAND: All right. Stop talking to me, | § here, Iasked, "Who made the decision to fire Brandon > Letme et youtudge Elis plone muter and you cancal |? Sha” * ides Elion, ond we wl ead him bis env bacon : And yon ~ And you interupted your wines © ft stout ie Sot being tre. | 2 tom answering nd “He w= He we He dit ~ He * Tis chambers mbes (408) 7603729. You, | was ie. Hes He reine Thats inpproprte "probaly, son ell Me Caco a (408) 266355. " ‘MR HELFAND: Thats mt 2 MR KILPATRICK: (49) 166 2 MR KILPATRICK: Tha note btn, 5 (MR HELFAND: 3555, But you havent fed » MR. HELFAND: Thats not whit happened. The 1+ lof in cling he oe bx recon leon wht append. » MR KILPATRICK: Welle yas utoftownthe | Do yubive more qoston fr the wines or fiat, thas me. %6 dyn with suspend the depoition? ” ‘MR HELFAND: Tim sure ell membsr you fom | MR KILPATRICK 1 of cus ave more 8 tasttime, questions All aa thal you mo answer questions Bor ® ‘THE WITNESS: Tak ite beak so Lan Journey, don coach your wins and allow he als 2 stato of water, 2» feevay sme 4 MR. HELFAND: Sure. Abolty a MR. HELFAND: Im going tote ou fora 2 2 foun ime, That conc the wines. I hve (Whereupon briefly off the record.) (Whereupon, Mr. Kilpatrick is on the phone ‘with Cour stat) “Whereupon, Me. Kilpatrick requests reporter answered a question fr the witness. And the fict that you ‘think have doesnt change the Ect that it hasnt happened But woke not going to agrc on tha, READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE.READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE ue vn | ‘Mr Kilpatrick, no matter how many times you say it 0 top. Ifyou have a question forthe witness, now's the time to ask; otherwise, wee gong fo consider the ‘deposition suspended. Go ahead, Q Okay. ‘MR. HELFAND: You know the Talking Heads? MR. KILPATRICK: Yeah [like the Talking reads | MR. HELFAND: "Singing it don't make itso” is one oftheir ines MR. KILPATRICK: Ob, you used that one at the last deposition. MR. HELPAND: It Its ~ Its aptin your MR. KILPATRICK: The record speaks for ise Q Okay. Mr Joiner, are you ready to proceed? A Yes. Q Okay. MR. HELFAND: He is Mayor Joiner, MR. KILPATRICK: Okay. So Mayor Joiner. Q Okay. So buck to Brandon Shoat: When was his ‘employment with te City terminated as a building official?” A Ldon't recall. Q Okay. But was it approximately in January, 2022? | MR. HELFAND: Objction, witness speculation | ‘A 1—Idon't—1 don't recal really. | Q Okay. And — Wel, looking at that Iter that's | siting infront of you, Exhibit 5 — ‘A This one? Q. Yes. It’s dated February 8th, 2022. At this point in ime, had — Well — And ~ And actually ook at also the ‘other exhibit, 6, right her. MR. KILPATRICK: You can take your copy back, Bill MR. HELFAND: Exhibit 6 is number MR. KILPATRICK: Is ~ Is this one MR. HELFAND: — 1032. Q Sol put in font of you Exhibit 6, and it purports tobe alter from Brandon Shoaf, building official, fixe ‘marshal, to City of ~ City of Kemah, Walter Gant, City ‘Administrator, dated January 25th, 2022, A Okay. Q Andit states that, "Allow histo serve as my official notice of resignation as the building oficial and fire marshal forthe City of Kemah.” So was this the dato ~ A I=Idon't know. Q —he actually resigned? A $ Sheheeret A = seen this, 3h Q Okay. So today is the frst date you've seem this document? A Kem @ So... Now Ill ask you again ina dif about a different part ofthis. What ~ What brought about Me. Shoats resignation? MR. HELFAND: Objection, speculation, A Tdon't know. Q Iethis— Irtodays the first time you've soon this document, tha’ leter of resignation, how did you even know that he resigned? A (Kata for hile, to tell you the trethsPasif ‘not ~ I'm not aver him. Q sir A I'mnot over him, Walter Gant is. = Q. Ob, okay ‘A- And just so you know, there's an ordinance that I ‘don’t have firing powers. Okay? Q Okay. So So your role asthe Mayer, you ~ you ‘don’ have the power to ~ to fire the building official?” A No. Q Okay. So A [don't even have the power to fire City Administrator. @ Okay, 40 A Only Council can, Q Okay. Thank you, for pointing that out ‘So was Mr. Shoa' resignation brought before (Council in sy meetings that you attended? ‘A. Not specitically. @ Oty. A. It's not required. © Okay. Well, was the termination of his employment iscussed a any Council meetings? ‘A Toot think 0, Q. Were there any Council meetings where — that you tended, where Council members expressed their, I guess, ‘complaints about his performance? ‘A That would not be done ins open Council meeting. Q Okay. Do you reall in February ~ February 16th, 2022, there's City Council mecting where the ~ Veronica (Crow and her husband care and addressed Council abou issues ‘elated to their propety on Bay Street? A Yes. © Okay. MR. KILPATRICK: Ob, wait (Whereupon, Me. Kilpatrick is onthe phone with Court taf.) Q Olay. So the— Again, back tothe February 16, 2022, City Coun! mesting, de Crows expressed their 10 READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE ——— 4l 43 ‘once about what information they were gating fom facts notin evidence, (Me. Shoaf in regard to getting permis fr thir project Do you— that ~ on the Bay Suet property’? A No. Nt HELFAND Eremem. Thtsums fas incite © Doyro rent fe HELFAND. Doyouronebe wht as fat tappect THE WITNESS: Na A reenter ery ert nergy © Okey, Well ttm ea you rome ht eytstny wt Cy Come cng (pa oeueriat fs eon Gomi meng in ta th gory nert= rene pet the te appeared ey wee dig ego te ate inet pers ccr snd sot reg ti ly Cone Otay, Anddo goal Dag cng tg tate lmel tu be ion gt Cun ine? emer ea, Oar And Wi And An yon acum wit Goat a iy Com ning ons eer ave —T8 Q And isn't it tue you didn't want them putting / Q Okay. So there was also a gentleman who spoke at ‘the hearing about his project forthe food ~ food truck park. Do you recall tha? ‘A Atthat meeting? @ Ye. A No Q Or—Or— Was there an agenda item on that for the approval ofa food truck park? A” I don't recall, @ Youdon'? Are you familiar with the ~the food ‘euck park at ~ forthe property called Bu~ Bubble Jungle A Yes. Q_ =next door to~ And it That's next door to Palapas, A Yes Q_ Okay. And did the City approve a food truck park tobe located at —a that property adjacent to Palapas' property? A Yes, Q_ Okay. And —So from the time that you have heen ‘Mayor, approximately, how many food trucks in the Cty of Okay. What — What — Wht did you discuss with ‘the Crows with respoc to the shor- crm rental par ofthat project? ‘A Number one, I don't recall that it as short-term ‘rental, What it was, was a barndominium, and the neighbors ‘were upset about that. @ Okay. Just— At this City Council meeting, do you seca stating that— MR. KILPATRICK: Oh, thas your pone, Q (CONTINUING) ~ do you real stating something slong the lines of you wee glad that thy took out he shor-erm rental component of their project? IMR. HELFAND: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence ‘A. don't recall tat, @ Okay. And do you also recall Doug Mcsinger ‘making ~ making statements about how the City had targeted. ‘certain businesses inthe City that they've shut dven even though they had permis? AN © You dort remember that? ‘MR. HELFAND: Excwe me, Tat also assunes 44 Kemah had City permits to operate food trucks within the iy? MR. HELFAND: Objection, alls for speculation. A. 1-1 don't recall Q Okay. Do you recall Brandon Shoat speaking ata City Counei! meeting in August, 2021, stating tht there was ‘only one food track in the City that bad a City permit? MR. HELFAND: Hang on. ‘That's 2 multifarious question, ‘Theres two questions there, Does he consider ~ remember him speaking, and do you ~ does he know what he said?” Which one do you want him to answer? MR. KILPATRICK: Either one, MR. HELFAND: Well, no, He-~ We have o know which one he's answering ‘cause if he says yes to one and no tothe other. Look, just ~ Do you want to know ifhe recalls Mr. Shoaf speaking at all at that Couneil meting or do you want him to ~ to tll you whether he remembers Mr. Shoaf ever saying what you claim you think Mr, Shoat said? Q Did you understand my question? A. Could you repeat that, please. MR, HELFAND: It doesn't matter whether he understands it. Hes not answering it, so -- You ether ~ Ws multifarious question. Its not READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE,READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE 45 “cause isa multifarious question, Just break it up into wo questions, Q_ Okay. Do you recall Brandon Shoaf speaking at any City Council meeting about the number af food truck permits that had been issued by the City? A No Q Never? A Correct. ‘MR. HELFAND: He does that a Tot, where bel say something and you tell him the answer and then he says, "That's your answer”, so you have to say it tice sometimes, 1s just a ~ That’ his thing MR. KILPATRICK: Whose phone is that? Oh, ‘that’s yours, Q_ Okay. Lets see. Do you recall the food truck at the Palapas property being towed on October 11th, 2021? ‘A. No, Iwas nota part oft. Q. Okay. But— But you~ you know now, sitting here today, that that it was towed around that ime? A kay. 1 wasn'ta part of it Q Okay. Who was part of tha? 47 depose — MR. HELFAND: Yes. ‘MR. KILPATRICK: — Mayor Joiner, ‘MR. HELFAND: So ask him questions. Don't tell him things. What you told him is incorrect. MR. KILPATRICK: You're MR. HELFAND: Now ask him a question, MR. KILPATRICK: Stop coaching, again, Mark MR. HELFAND: Yeah, mark that. That's g, according to Mr Kilpatrick, Mark that as coaching, Puta big C next it ‘Do you have a question forthe man? MR. KILPATRICK: Yes, of course, Io. ‘MR.HELFAND; Ask a question. MR. KILPATRICK: Sony forthe interruption, Q__So~Sothe only person who would know who authorized, that would be Walter Gant? MR. HELFAND: Objection, calls for speculation «10 who ~ who the only person, the only people who would know are Q Well, who ~ From your understanding, who ~ who 2 MR. HELFAND: Objection, calls for 3 would know, who would ned to ask about the Fo track 2 speculation, 3 being towed on October Ith, 20207 2A. You need to talk to Walter Gant about that. MR. HELFAND: Objection, calls for 46 48 1 Q Wel, did, and — and he did't know: 1 speculation 2 MR. HELFAND: No, no, don't No, dott do 2 Q Youcan answer 3 that. Doni tl! him what happened in another deposition. MR. HELFAND: Do you know? 4 Ask hima question. “ ‘THE WITNESS: No, s MR. KILPATRICK: masking. You~ You 5 MR, HELFAND: Well tll him that © Fnlerrupted — © Q Well, you said Walter Gant a second ago, , MR. HELFAND: ‘Cause thats not wht — 7 MR. HELFAND: Well — ' MR. KILPATRICK: —me. I wasnt done. » — Q Anyoneelse? ’ MR. HELFAND: Thats ot what Walter said, so . MR. HELFAND: — he did say Walter Gant. dont = © Q. Thats i” u MR. KILPATRICK: I wast dome talking HA Right. @ MR. HELFAND: You tell me when you're done "2 Q Okay. And so if Walter Gant dida't know, then "3 taking, Ii tell you the same thing. You ask him 3 what? questions. You dot tell him what you think another witness | A. have no idea, 43 sad in a deposition ‘eause you're mischaraterizing 15 Q_ Okay. Okay. Fm going to hand you whats boen| % Mr. Gants testimony. 6 marked as Exhibit 12, " MR. KILPATRICK: Ther’ nothing wrong with me | 1? (Exhibit 12 marked) "starting off my question like tha » MR. HELFAND: Okay. Onee again, we run into a ” ‘MR. HELFAND: Stop interrupting. Youre not ° problem that isa document thats not been produced in this 2 isting 2 case, Hm mot going todo anything about it cause it ™ MR. KILPATRICK: You'e interrupting me and my | 2 reports to be City Council meeting minutes of 2 deposition, 22 September Ist Or, sorry ~ the agenda for September Ist, » ‘MR. HELFAND: No, no, its our deposition. B 2021 ‘Who made it your deposition, (MR KILPATRICK: This is my one chance to But im going to tell you, Mr. Kilpatrick, the Rules donot allow you to use documents ina deposition that READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE,READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE. 9 sl hhave not been produced. 5g Oty, MR. KILPATRICK: Well, do you havea problem |? MR. HELFAND: That’ legislative privilege. with me using this to ask him questions? SQ. And II don't want to ask you about why you put MR. HELFAND: I~ 1 feel like youre not + ton the agenda, why ~ or what you discussed in executive listening to me. 1 said Tm not going to make an issue off 5 session asto this document because it looks like it’ a public . MR. HELFAND: But that's not the limitation record. But if you have other documents that have not been | 7 You can't even ask him what = what he thinks about it, which produced, youre nt going tobe able to use ther, Sis what you jst asked MR. KILPATRICK: Okay. ° ——Q mjust ask I'm just asking what you, MR. HELFAND: You cant question a witness 10 personally, do you believe that short-term rentals are bout a document you haven' disclosed or otherwise required fo change ffom single family to hotel-motel building ‘exchanged. codes? Q Okay. Anyway, lets go tothe ~ Page 3 8 MR. HELFAND: Youre ~ He~ There's no him, A Okay. personaly. Q_Or—Oractually make that page — Page 4, atthe 's No offense, ‘op, where we see No.3. It's~ So in this Exhibit 12, i You're — He's the Mayor. You'e asking him says, on Page 40f4 ofthe agends, tem 3, atthe tp, says, | \7 questions as the Mayor of somehody be put onthe agenda “Possible legal action on lack of enforcement of "es within the legislative privilege, and he's not going to Ordinance 1178, 1188, and 1189, andthe City adopted 2009 | 9 answer it. Move on. And if you think the lw requires it, International Building Code, which requires changing from | * tel the Judge or show itto me, and IL ook at it. But single family to hotel-motel building codes for STRS." And | 71 that's directly within the legislative privilege then has a “Joiner” in parentheses tothe right. Doyousee |” | wamed you this, when you told me you wanted. thar? 23 the Mayors deposition, and you told me, "im not going to A Yes, 2% gett the Mayors thought processes regarding how he Was thican tem hat you pun theagenda forthe | conducts himself the Mayor” 50 52 exceutive session? 1 MR. KILPATRICK: Well, no, Initially, you~ ‘A. Yes, obviously. 2 you refused to prodace ima altogether © Okay. Sodo you believe that ~ ; MR. HELFAND: No, thats not — MR, HELFAND; Go ahead and ask your question. =| 4 MR. KILPATRICK: ~ uni, once again, 1 | want him to wait 5) proved that— that ~ that docset apply Q Okay. Do you believe that STR, that's shortAerm ‘ MR. HELFAND: Brian, Brian, Ifyou have rentals, require changing from the single fail to hotel- > another question forthe man, ask him. He's not asking (SIC) ‘mote building codes? * questions about his thought processes as 2 member of the ‘MR. HELFAND: Let me object that that invades the legislative privilege, and he will not answer questions involving the legislative privilege. Q Okay, And Yeah, Don't — Don't answer that to the extent it involves anything that’, you know, attorney leat privilege or evslative privilege. But Im just asking you, asthe Mayor ofthe City, irespctive of what was discussed atthe ~ during exccutve session, do you believe that short-term rentals are required to change fom single fini to hotel-motel Building Code? MR. HELFAND: Okay. Tm Im affaid you ontt understand the legislative privilege; although, 1 ‘wamed you ofthis when you asked for the Mayer's deposition. ‘You are not permite to ask the Mayor his thought processes ‘regarding why he put something onthe agenda, conversations hh his with Counil members. You'e not entitled ois thought processes regarding the — the business ofthe City. legislative body. (Q. And im not asking you that. That's not ay question. [just want to know, do you belive that STRs, short-term rentals, have ~ of have ~ are required to change rom single family to hotel and motel building codes? ‘MR. HELFAND: What ~ what he believes a the Mayor is privileged. He's not answering the question ‘You've now asked three times. I've told you its privileged. He's not asking (SIC) it ‘And then what you say is, "I don't want to ‘know what you believe. Now, do you believe?” ‘You have another question ‘use this one's one? (Well, you reall stating in open sessions during City Council meetings that you believe that STR, short-term, rentals, are required to comply with hote-motel building codes. Correct? READING COPY FOR SIGNATUREREADING COPY FOR SIGNATURE 8 weeeee 33 MR. HELFAND: That assumes Fats notin evidence. Have you said thar? T 3s you do that? ‘A. Lehink itwas him. That was Harry — Harry Q_ Okay. So you remember the meeting you had with ‘THE WITNESS: 1 dont recall + Mr Place? MR. HELFAND: Okay. 5A Yes, wemet one evening ata restaurant. Q Never ~ So sitting hee today, you dont recall © Q Okay. Where was the restauran®? ever saying 7A. In Clear Lake Stores. ‘A Ldon't recall, *Q Okay, And do you ~ What di you discuss that Q ~those words »— mosing? A Ldon't recall. © A. Hehad concerns and asked me to set up a meeting at Q And youdon't be--So— And you won't answermy | “City Hal, think it was that following Monday, that he'd «question whether you believe — Tmnot talking about what | een in town and wanted to get everyone together, sof did you discussed withthe City Council. Talking about ouside | set that up. ‘of your roe a the Mayor on City Council in your legislative |! Q. Okay. And tell me what happened atthe meting, ‘capacity, our role as the Mayor and implementing what City | '° A. Itidn't happen. Council has enacted, what your position is if--do~ does |" — Q_ Oh, thore was no mexting? a shor-temm-rental property have to comply with hotlmotet | A. Yeah Mr. Placek—I don't remember exactly what building codes? "8 happened, but he couldn't make the meeting, soit didn't MR. HELFAND: Mayor, dont answer that | mappen. question. Is privileged. But its now been asked four % —Q Okay. Anddo you reall telling Mr Pacek tha if times, and if you ask icagain, we're going to leave 21 he got ofthe shor-term rentals that you would get him MR. KILPATRICK: I'masking a different way. 2 acenificate of accupancy for the bar? ‘MR. HELFAND: I know, but it’ the same 2 ‘question, * Q Not MR. KILPATRICK: And its a baseless = MR. HELFAND: Objection, leading, Object hat s4 56 objection. 1 that assumes fet im evidence (MR. HELFAND: Its the same question ? ‘What don't you ask him ihe sid something MR. HELFAND: Okay. Well, wel take that one 3 not that he sid something ‘cause Tm going to have to ‘up with the Judge, too. | 4 object every time you say, "Do recall saying," something, MR. HELFAND: Okay. Now, move on toa | 5 unless you lay a predicate that he actualy sad it diferent one, though. ‘ But the Mayor’ already ejected that one 80 Q Sossince you testi carir that you dont play 7 move on tothe next question, role in Building Code enforcement, why — why were you 5 Q Okay. Sowhat exactly did you discuss with Matt meeting with the Crows at their property? 3) Placck when you did ~ when ~ when you met with him atthe ‘A Because the neighbors had asked me to meet with 1 restaurant?” ‘them. [2A tive amwered that. (Q_ Okay. So sometimes you get involved in certain = Q What particular issues? Perit code enforcement things ofthat mat, those issues. | "AT don't reel t's been a tong ime ago. A Yes, % ——Q. Okay. Wel, Je me just throw out some things that Q Okay. And— 1 may reffesh your recollection Did you discuss the ‘A. L miss — met with Mr. Placck because some of his | short-term rental units on the third — cighbors asked me to doit. 7A Adon't recall, Q Olay. Which neighbors asked you to meet with § —Q. ~and fourth floors? Mr, Placek? A Heon’t recat. A. Onc of the bars there. 2% Qld you discuss the food tuck? Okay. Which ~ Which bar? 2A Aeon ees A [think it was Voodoo. ® Qi you discuss the fist and secon floors inside Q The Voodoo Lounge? the building? A (NODS HEAD AFFIRMATIVELY,) % A Adon recall Q_ Who Win’ the person at Voodoo Lounge that asked | 7 Qo you~ Do you recall even gencrally what the READING COPY FOR SIGNATURE