Facebook

Twitter
Google+
Pinterest
LinkedIn
Delicious
DiggReddit
WordPress
StumbleUpon
Tumblr
Translate
Addthis 115500 9977 S
SEEA
ATTS
S LLE
EFFTT --
22001188 E
ENNE
ERRG
GYYCCO
ONNFFE
ERRE
ENNCCE
E

Energetic Forum > Energetic Forum Discussion > Renewable Energy User Name User Name Remember Me?
H
Hoow
w ttoo ttuurrnn ppllaassttiicc w
waassttee iinnttoo ddiieesseell ffuueell cchheeaappllyy Password Log in

RReeggiisstteerr FFAAQ
Q CCoom
mmmuunniittyy CCaalleennddaarr TTooddaayy''ss PPoossttss SSeeaarrcchh

Eric Magnetizer Tesla 2018 Energy D

Doonnaattee Energy Advertising
Dollard Products Chargers Energy Science Times
Conference Forum
R
Reenneew
waabbllee EEnneerrggyy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any
discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET :

BEDINI RPX
Page 76 of 146 «« First < 26 66 74 75 7766 77 78 86 126 > Last »»

TThhrreeaadd TToooollss

02-21-2013, 04:40 PM #22225511

Join Date: Feb 2013

keval Posts: 1
Junior Member

can u plz explain the use of bubbler nd how to use it nd if I dont use it then does I get ma fuel or not
__________________

D
Doow
wnnllooaadd SSO OLLA ARRS SE EC CRREETTSS bbyy P Peetteerr LLiinnddeem
maannnn
FFrreeee -- G
Geett iitt nnoow
w:: S
Soollaarr S
Seeccrreettss

02-21-2013, 09:14 PM #22225522

Join Date: Feb 2012

Excalibur Posts: 452
Senior Member

A bubbler provides important safety aspects like as a flashback arrestor.

I posted up a Youtube video on how to make a simple bubbler for cheap or free. No one can
say they can't afford one of these.
Caution: the vapor stream should already be cooled sufficiently before entering the bubbler!
DIY Bubbler for cheap
__________________
http://diydiesel.blogspot.co.nz/

02-21-2013, 10:06 PM #22225533

 Join Date: Jul 2012
MasterBlaster Posts: 116
Senior Member

I don't normally read this thread but you may like to know this:

16-year-old discovers catalyst to turn Egypt's plastic waste into biofuel | MNN - Mother Nature
Network
__________________

02-22-2013, 10:44 AM #22225544

Join Date: Sep 2007

waterboost Posts: 56
Member Send

C
Caattaallyysstt

The Catalyst is xeolite.... Titanium Dioxide is another good one... Anything ionising...
__________________

02-23-2013, 03:12 AM #22225555

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkeevvaall
can u plz explain the use of bubbler nd how to use it nd if I dont use it then does I get ma
fuel or not

Keval, the bubbler has a number of important functions.

1) A bubbler works as a primitive check valve to prevent oxygen from entering the exhaust
stream.
2) A bubbler provides positive feedback for whether your reactor is still emitting volatiles.
3) A bubbler also provides a simple but effective means of reducing some toxic gasses.
4) Hydrogen fluoride gas (HF) in the flue stream of a pyrolysis unit can be mitigated by
bubbling the flue gases through water.
5) Hydrogen Chloride gas (HCL) in the flue stream of a pyrolysis unit can be mitigated by
bubbling the flue gases through water.
6) Adding rusty steel wool to the bubbler is an effective way to reduce H2S
__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy
G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I
have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend
down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer,
and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel
fuel.

02-23-2013, 08:40 AM #22225566

Join Date: Feb 2013

Tplane37 Posts: 15
Junior Member

A
Acceettaall ((PPO
OMM))//PPV
VCC//A
ABBS
S

WOW! What a read! It's been said repeatedly throughout the 76 pages of this thread, but
outstanding work folks!

To answer one issue that keeps coming up: Finding information in a thread this long. If you
look up to, you will see two separate "Search" options. The one in the site's main bar will
search the entire site (Or whatever parameters you put in the advanced search feature).
Then there is a second search option below that that reads "Search This Thread." I have
used the second option multiple times in the past two days as I have read this thread from
start to finish, re-reading several posts throughout after utilizing another great search
function... Google.

With that said, an brief introduction. I was a Boiler Technician in the United States Navy. I
have spent most of my life tinkering with anything that had moving parts, I rebuilt my first
engine at about 9 years old. I have spent most of my adult life in the field of industrial plant
maintenance, most recently in a steel sand casting foundry as a Millwright and Maintenance
man. I have always enjoyed chemistry, fabrication, and finding a use for someone else's
junk (more of a "Reuse" aka "Repurpose" than a "Recycle" kind of guy) and I would much
rather build something myself than build something of someone else's design... then if it
fails, its my fault.

I am primarily focused on diesel fuels (a few hundred gallons per month), secondary on petrol
(maybe 50-100 gallons per month, depending on if my diesel truck is running or not). I have been
trying to locate feedstock locally for building a processor based on what I have ready access to. I
started out looking for WMO, there is some supply, but many local companies already have non-
compete contracts with the local refineries... I then looked into WVO, and that is also available in
limited supply because it is more common for people to think of doing... Then I remembered a couple
YouTube videos about converting plastic to a diesel-like fuel that I stumbled on when I was building
my Wood-Gas/Syn-Gas Gasifiers for burning trash (no trash pick-up service at farm)...that lead me
here and I am happy with what I have read thus far.

Before this turns into a book, I am in a bio-fuel, industrial community. A lot of companies are paying
top dollar for most anything that can be converted into a fuel of some sort. This limits free and cheap
feedstock. I was on the phone earlier today with a Plastics Broker for the main plastic recycling
company in my area. Prices for #5, #2, and #4 shredded plastic (Separated by PP or PE) is currently
priced at US$780 ber Net Ton (2,000 lbs) with a minimum purchase of 20 Net Tons. Cost to much at
a time, and not enough gain over the #2 diesel pump (averages out to about US$3.50 per gallon
diesel in a highly efficient processor vs. #2 Diesel at US$4.199 per gallon at the pump). "Mixed"
plastic (unsorted floor scraps, #3, #6, and #7 plastics) goes for about have of what PP/PE sells for,
with the same minimum purchase price, but is likely to contain PVC, PET/PETE, ABS, and POM.
However, there was positive information as well....maybe.

Aparently, at alot of the plastic recyclers seminars, there is one thing that they cannot find a use for,
and it costs scrapping companies about US$50,000 PER MONTH because of it! They call it "Fluff." Fluff
is what Scrap Processors/Automobile Shredders are left with after the vehicles are shredded and all
magnetic material is removed, about 30% of every vehicle is "fluff." Fluff it mostly the plastics,
carpet, some glass which included the plastic films in laminate glass, and some glass...there is also
some rubber from hoses, etc. but rarely includes tires. Auto Shredders have to PAY companies to take
the Fluff to landfills. The Plastic Broker and I discussed the pyrolysis procedures done in this thread,
he had a couple of key concerns. But said that if we can find a way to deal with a couple of key toxic
chemicals, it is likely that not only could we get this fluff for free, it is very likely that the auto
shredders would PAY US TO TAKE IT AWAY.

Here are the key concerns that I would like to find a way to neutralize/utilize:

(1) Acetal: Polyoxymethylene ("POM"). This is what the little white/opaque door panel and dash board
"push clips" are made from. If even one of these gets into a multi-ton batch of plastic as it is melted
in a furnace to be reused as plastic, it puts off a smell similar to the smell of formaldehyde. But
looking at it's chemical composition and the fact that the broker flat out said that the smell would
"clear the entire plant" but did not incapacitate anyone, I am lead to believe that the fumes are
actually a dirty form of methane. ***What gas is formed when POM melts, them cracks? Can it be
converted to methanol? Formaldehyde gas is commonly used to decontaminate equipment that have
been exposed to bio-agents, it can be neutralized using Ca(OH)2, KOH, or NaOH. Once neutralized, it
decomposes to Hexamethylene. But I Have also read that POM creates a gas called Methenamine
when exposed to ammonia gas. The use of ammonia gas concerns me because of the posibility of HCl
from any PVC's that may be present. How can we deal with whatever gases POM puts off?***

(2) PVC. The issue of the HCl from PVC his has been covered a number of times in this tread. The
bubbler takes care of it for the most part. KOH or NaOH dissolved in the bubbler neutralizes it and
gives out "waste" fuel an added "kick." Another option is the aluminum which serves a simliar
function. I like the Baking Soda concept because it produces CO2, but does it produce enough CO2 to
make it SAFE to inject the waste gas stream back into the reactor to displace any oxygen released by
any PET/PETE?

(3) ABS. "Fluff" will likely contain ABS plastics, as they are commonly used in automotive interiors.
From what little has been discussed in this thread regarding ABS plastics, the biggest concern seems
to be Cyanide gas. What are the chances that KOH or NaOH in the bubler can neutralize this as well?
If so, Lye may be our best course of action. What are the other ways to neutralize cyanide gas?

(4) It is possible that PET/PETE will be present as well. A CO2 blanket, or posibly even Halon Gas
might be a beneficial consideration. And if the auto shredders are paying us to remove the fluff, the
cost of Halon could be a determining factor in how much we would charge to remove the Fluff from
their yards to keep it out of the landfills?

Most of my posts will not be this long, but I wanted to get a bunch of info out there. It looks like the
same basic components are required for the processor, and it is various "add-ons" or "tweaks" that
are the factors that vary. I will be building my unit from propane tanks and Schedule 80 pipe for the
most part. Before I end this chapter... I mean post... I would like to share one more bit of
information.

Propane Tanks are required to be recertified based on a specific schedule. THere are various reasons
why a tank can fail certification. Also, most of your propane filling companies are the one's doing the
tests and they also accept used tanks for recycling. Typically, these failed tanks are thrown in a pile
and left there for quite some time. Locally, I can pick up these tanks for free, if I can beat the
scrappers to them. Some tanks will be junk (won't hold pressure), but others will be usable for our
purposes, but not for propane. Free is good, and these tanks are made of thinker metal as has been
discussed earlier in this thread.

Enough for now!

__________________
 02-23-2013, 01:23 PM #22225577

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

Welcome, Tplane37, good to know that you have read the thread, and that you have a
technical background, and you are interested in doing pyrolysis to make your own fuel.
There are a wide range of substances that can be converted into fuel via pyrolysis. scrap
wood, lumber, and sawdust can be pyrolyzed to extract fuel out of it more efficiently than
the wood-gas process. News paper can be pyrolyzed to acquire fuel in the same way plastic
can.

Your interest in pyrolyzing Polyoxymethylene (POM) has some merit, as it solves a disposal
problem of the waste industry.

The conclusion for mitigating toxic emissions while pyrolyzing polymers containing
Polyoxymethylene (POM). The two toxic emissions from pyrolyzing Polyoxymethylene (POM)
are: Formaldehyde and carbon monoxide (CO).

Mitigating carbon monoxide (CO) emissions are simple. Since carbon monoxide (CO) is
flammable, then it is easily mitigated via a burner. So, diverting the exhaust stream from a
pyrolysis unit a burner is a simple solution.

Mitigating Formaldehyde is more complex. However, it is soluble in water; therefore, it is

reasonable to consider that a simple bubbler might be all that is needed to remove
Formaldehyde from the exhaust stream of a pyrolysis unit. Additionally, Formaldehyde is
flammable, therefore residues of Formaldehyde in the exhaust stream after the bubbler
could be effectively consumed in a burner.

For a more in depth read on the toxic by products of the pyrolysis of Polyoxymethylene
(POM) you can click this link:
Toxic by-products of pyrolysis
__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy
G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I
have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend
down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer,
and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel
fuel.

02-23-2013, 04:21 PM #22225588

Join Date: Jun 2011

imakebiodiesel Posts: 354
Senior Member

A series of bubblers would be the safest approach to dealing with abs generated cyanide.
First a bubbler containing plain water to deal with any pvc generated HCl and then a bubbler
containing common bleach (10% soduim hypoclorite) will neutralize the cyanide. However it
is important to have the water first as HCl will neutralize the bleach stopping it from dealing
with the cyanide and also release chlorine gas.
Pyrolysing unknown mixtures of plastic waste will always be dangerous. While individual
known dangerous byproducts can be dealt with it is difficult to know how these various
byproducts might react with each other and with the various scrubbers, filters bubblers etc.
Personally, nothing goes into my retort that is not positively identified as PE or PP.
__________________

02-23-2013, 06:13 PM #22225599

Join Date: Feb 2013

Tplane37 Posts: 15
Junior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by iim
maakkeebbiiooddiieesseell
Personally, nothing goes into my retort that is not positively identified as PE or PP.

Normally, I would agree 100%. In this instance (Fluff), there are a couple of driving forces
for motivation (Getting paid to take it and its going to the landfills), and it is possible to
know what plastic might or could end up in the retort by researching and knowing what
types of plastics are used in automobiles. Setting a system up to properly handle all types of
plastic in a single run, or even multiple runs of mixed plastics if needed could prove
pertinent for all users. Especially in a scenario such as with the cyanide: At least 2 bubblers,
but the first on MUST be water only, and the second with chlorine bleach (a potential reuse
for HCl contaminated water from PVC?), I would consider a third bubbler with KOH in it as
the KOH seems to neutralize most anything that would remain.
On the PETE side of things, I have a thought for the control of oxygen in the system. An oxygen
sensor from a car/truck wired to a 12v valve for the CO2 purge. It would most likely be a 2 wire O2
sensor, usually when the sensor (which is just a switch) closes its contacts, it send a signal to either
the vehicle computer or to the fuel pump of the vehicle, some snsors shut off power to the fuel pump
momentarily when they activate, others supply power (signal) to the computer to tell the computer to
pulse the fuel pump. Utilizing this signal to open a valve to allow CO2 into the retort might work, but I
don't know how sensitive the O2 sensors can be. a 12V power supply would be necessary, but this is
already present for the folks using solar to heat their processors.

As for formaldehyde, even though it is combustable, I'd much rather neutralize it as much as
possible, but it just flat out stinks, regardless of how dangerous it is to breath, I really don't care if it
is actually good for you (which it is not!), I don't want to smell it.

Do we know if formaldehyde, cyanide, and/or HCl can combine with each other in any combination in
our systems and at the temperatures we are operating at? What combinations are possible, and how
can we either avoid them or neutralize the new element (other than avoiding the type of plastic all
together)?

***
Beyond Biodiesel, my next step, now that I have finally read through this tread, is to begin reading
through your thread on the Toxic by-products of pyrolysis. Thank you for your efforts it making such
a thread available for tailored discussion.
__________________

02-23-2013, 06:47 PM #22226600

Join Date: Feb 2013

Tplane37 Posts: 15
Junior Member

JJhhaannaannaannddaa

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Beeyyoonndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
For a more in depth read on the toxic by products of the pyrolysis of Polyoxymethylene (POM)
you can click this link:
Toxic by-products of pyrolysis

Is "Jhanananda" a member of this forum as well? If so, is his Username the same here? I
am intrigued by his signature:

Quote:
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb,
2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2
IP.

I am running a 1985 Chevy C30 dually with a non-emisions 6.2L diesel V-8 engine from a
former US Military M1009 (Chevy Blazer). To my knowledge I am also running one of the
variants of the mechanical DB2 Injector Pumps. I am curious if and how well various
proportions to bio-mass (from plastic) and biodiesel mix, as well as adding #2 pump diesel
into the mix work with this engine.
__________________

Last edited by Tplane37; 02-23-2013 at 06:49 PM. Reason: spelling

02-24-2013, 02:48 AM #22226611

Join Date: Sep 2012

TheQuietDan Posts: 6
Junior Member

w
woooodd ssccrraapp qquueessttiioonnss

I was wondering what kind of output to input ratio you were getting when you worked over
the wood scrap and was the output enough to mess with or more steam and little else?

Thank you in advance for your input.

__________________

02-24-2013, 09:36 AM #22226622

Join Date: Jan 2013

xyverster Posts: 2
Junior Member
oh my...i have been left behind...
anyone know what use nitrogen at pyrolisis process?is it only just to make gone the oxigen
from batch?
and about the catalyst i read that zeolite will give some help...where do i should put the
catalyst?let the vapor through the catalyst or mix it with waste plastic?
if our waste have water is it a problem?is it really necceserry to remove dirt or water?if we
process it to batch what process should i add?

sorry if i ask to much...i work at recyling plastic waste being pellet for reuse...its my uncle
factory..just a small factory..
and i want make one factory too that produce fuel..
hope someone can help me, share what u know to guide me...
__________________

02-24-2013, 10:10 AM #22226633

Join Date: Jun 2011

imakebiodiesel Posts: 354
Senior Member

Tplane37, I run my 2 cars on a blend of 70% biodiesel and 30% crude from plastic waste. In
my case this is 10% diesel 75% kerosene and 15% petrol.
The resultant mix has exactly the same specific gravity and viscosity as normal commercial
diesel. My cars have VW 1.9 engines with bosch rotary pumps and indirect injection. They
run very well and start easily on this mix even in cold weather. I dont know if this mix would
work well with newer common rail type injection systems. Im told by mechanics who know
their stuff that volatiles in a mix such as this would preignite in the injectors and cause
damage.
__________________

02-24-2013, 12:56 PM #22226644

Join Date: Sep 2007

waterboost Posts: 56
Member Send

O
Oiill S
Saam
mpplleess

We had a good start yesterday (11:30am) and we were still running a batch at 4am.... Far
too much patience

I'll be warming up quicker in future...

Our time consuming method allowed us to take samples at different temperatures and we
were left with at least 13 noticeably different colours of fuel

We also found that the fuel from poly prop will easily dissolve the waxy crystals from the
carrier bag fuel. 100% carrier bags didnt look waxy but v.dark. When the carrier bag fuel
cools to 0degrees it goes like runny jelly...

The feedstock on the last run was slightly wet poly prop pellets, strange thing is, to me at
least, the water only came out after approx 330 degrees C... along with the first fuel
fractions...
Attached Images
oil_02.jpg (70.3 KB, 98 views)

__________________

02-24-2013, 01:43 PM #22226655

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaan
nee3
377
As for formaldehyde, even though it is combustable, I'd much rather neutralize it as
much as possible, but it just flat out stinks, regardless of how dangerous it is to
breath, I really don't care if it is actually good for you (which it is not!), I don't want
to smell it.

Wait until you get a whiff of HCL gas. If you live to tell about it, you will find it will knock you
on your butt. So, make sure you have a fully functional bubbler, and a full face respirator on
hand before venturing into pyrolyzing fluff.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTppllaan

nee3
377
Do we know if formaldehyde, cyanide, and/or HCl can combine with each other in
any combination in our systems and at the temperatures we are operating at? What
combinations are possible, and how can we either avoid them or neutralize the new
element (other than avoiding the type of plastic all together)?

Might as well add in hydrogen fluoride gas (HF) into the mix. From researching the subject of toxic
by-products of pyrolysis all of the major problems are caused by halogenated hydrocarbons, and the
toxic and corrosive gasses are just the tip of the iceburg, because down stream from the pyrolysis
unit will be formed "super toxins" such as dioxins. So, if you are going to process fluff, then your
pyrolysis unit is going to become a super-fund toxic site. So, make friends with your space suit for
processing that stuff.

I am with imakebiodiesel. I am just going to stay away from it.

However, I understand the economic incentive, and I appreciate someone wanting to tackle the
problem.

I do not happen to believe that the combination of HCL, HF, HCN, plus hydrocarbons is going to result
in anything worse than the above. Especially since chlorine is needed to neutralize cyanide. Maybe
one bubbler will handle both, but I am all for redundency, especially when dealing with HCL, HF and
HCN. You will want to have some high quality gas analyzers on the your operation to monitor your
output and protect your operators.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTppllaan

nee3
377
Beyond Biodiesel, my next step, now that I have finally read through this tread, is to
begin reading through your thread on the Toxic by-products of pyrolysis. Thank you
for your efforts it making such a thread available for tailored discussion.

Thanks, I saw you on the forum. Good to have your contribution there.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTppllaannee3377

Is "Jhanananda" a member of this forum as well? If so, is his Username the same here? I am
intrigued by his signature:

Yes, Beyond Biodiesel, Jhananda, Jhanananda, and Jeffrey S. Brooks are all the same guy, me.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTppllaan

nee3
377
I am running a 1985 Chevy C30 dually with a non-emisions 6.2L diesel V-8 engine
from a former US Military M1009 (Chevy Blazer). To my knowledge I am also running
one of the variants of the mechanical DB2 Injector Pumps. I am curious if and how
well various proportions to bio-mass (from plastic) and biodiesel mix, as well as
adding #2 pump diesel into the mix work with this engine.

Funny, we are running almost the same vehicle. I have run my 6.2L DD engine in a Chevy g-20 van
on a wide range of blends of waste oils plus gasoline for 6 years. Mostly I have run WVO blended with
gasoline at 20%, and it runs just fine.

However, burning WMO blends nearly ruined my engine, so I would not recommend WMO for that
engine, unless it is distilled. Distilling WMO is why I am here, and why I have a pyrolysis section on
my forum. However, I plan to pyrolyze plastics, rubber, scrap wood, cow dung, you name it.
__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van
with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the
engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have
found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter,
my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

02-24-2013, 02:02 PM #22226666

Join Date: Jan 2013

PLASTICTRIX Location: Taxachusetts USA
Junior Member Posts: 29

I have recently found a great source of plastic. A friend of mine is in upper management at a
large soft drink manufacturing facility, he gave me access to upwards of 100 5 gal. syrup
buckets with lids and 20 to 30 20gal. syrup drums a day..This is a great free source of
plastic. They have been paying to just toss them into a 15yd dumpster.
Meanwhile I have been hoarding them all in my ever growing mountain of plastic in the back
corner of my yard for quite some time. As the pile is growing i have come to realize that it
will not be easy sizing the containers for my retort and is going to really slow me down. I
have been cutting them up with a chainsaw on a large tarp, but this is not very efficient,
annoys my wife, and makes a terrible mess.
I think i am going to have to build a grinder or shredder of sorts to efficiently handle them..I
also scored a bunch of pallet gaylords to put the shredded material into for easy storage..
Any suggestions or ideas for effectively reducing the size of these containers would be
appreciated. The diameter of a blue 20gal. drum is about 20 inches, so it would have to
have a fairly large capacity to take a whole one in..
__________________

02-24-2013, 09:46 PM #22226677

Join Date: Feb 2013

Tplane37 Posts: 15
Junior Member
 Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Beeyyoonndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
So, make sure you have a fully functional bubbler, and a full face respirator on hand before
venturing into pyrolyzing fluff.

I fully intend to not only have the respirator on hand, but I am wanting to have redundancy
in the bubblers as well as redundant carbon filtration in the system. But knowing what to
activate the carbon with is going to be dependent on what chemical gasses are produced.
The filtration and safety side of things is an area where there is no such thing as "overkill" in
my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBeeyyoon
ndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
Might as well add in hydrogen fluoride gas (HF) into the mix. From researching the
subject of toxic by-products of pyrolysis all of the major problems are caused by
halogenated hydrocarbons, and the toxic and corrosive gasses are just the tip of the
iceburg, because down stream from the pyrolysis unit will be formed "super toxins"
such as dioxins. * * * I do not happen to believe that the combination of HCL, HF,
HCN, plus hydrocarbons is going to result in anything worse than the above.
Especially since chlorine is needed to neutralize cyanide. Maybe one bubbler will
handle both, but I am all for redundency, especially when dealing with HCL, HF and
HCN. You will want to have some high quality gas analyzers on the your operation to
monitor your output and protect your operators.

If a toxic gas is possible to produce via pyrolysis, then I want a filter or bubbler in the
system designed to neutralize it. "It's better to have one and not need it, than to need one
and not have it." I was looking into the dioxine delima, and this may be easier to deal with
(not necessarily cheap, but easy) than previously thought. Here's a citation from
Polychlorinated dibenzodioxins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :
Quote:
In incineration, dioxins can also reform or form de novo in the atmosphere above the
stack as the exhaust gases cool through a temperature window of 600 to 200 °C. The
most common method of reducing the quantity of dioxins reforming or forming de
novo (Latin for "as new") is through rraappiidd ((3300 m miilllliisseeccoon
ndd)) qqu
ueen
ncch
hiin
ngg ooff tth
hee
eexxh
haau
usstt ggaasseess tth
hrroou
uggh
h tth
haatt 4
4000
0 °°C
Cwwiin
nddoow
w.. Incinerator emissions of dioxins have
been reduced by over 90% as a result of new emissions control requirements.

Here is what I suggest. Liquid nitrogen being pumped through sealed coils in a double-
insulated chest freezer (add the pink foam panel insulation used on the exterior of houses to
the outside of the deep freezer is how we have built these freezers before). The dioxines
would not make contact with the liquid nitrogen, because the nitrogen would be in its own
sealed system. The gases would pass through the chest freezer in a similar way as your ice
filled condensers, but flowing liquid nitrogen is as approximately --3
3000
0 ddeeggrreeeess FF. This would
absolutely quench the exhaust gases... and when the liquid nitrogen goes to a gaseous state
after flowing through the freezer, it can be introduced to the reactor as a means of
maintaining the oxygen-free environment.

This would introduce another challenge though, because you want to do this between your
reactor/retort and your condensers (ASAP after creating the gas) when the gas
temperatures are between 400 C and 600 C, you may end up having to do a second run on
the bio-oil because this process would completely nullify your other condensers, but it may
be worth it to avoid the toxic chemicals. This would probably not work with a reflux column.
And we are left with another question: What do the dioxines convert to after being
quenched? And will the reform in the mixed bio-oil when you do your second run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Beeyyoon
ndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
I am with imakebiodiesel. I am just going to stay away from it.

However, I understand the economic incentive, and I appreciate someone wanting to

tackle the problem.

For the time being, I am in agreement as well. I want to get started on smaller, proven units
while continuously trying to figure out the "Fluff" (sounds like a catch phrase for everything
we cannot identify). I think a small unit using a 20# (5 US gallon) propane tank for the
retort would be a good place to start, and use bottle caps. It's a small size, PP is proven to
be the easiest to work with, and the system is the most direct.

I don't have access to vast amounts of feedstock at my current location, but we have a
horse breeding stable in Ohio that I can get plenty of manure from to use instead of plastic.
I still like the idea of using plastic since it is effectively worthless for any other purpose (We
try to avoid consuming food/drinks from plastic containers...but that is a conversation for a
different thread). Also, I am looking at a flame heated unit due to it's self-sustainability
without any real dependance on outside efforts other than my own physical labor.
 Quote:

Originally Posted by B
Beeyyoon
ndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
Funny, we are running almost the same vehicle. I have run my 6.2L DD engine in a
Chevy g-20 van on a wide range of blends of waste oils plus gasoline for 6 years.
Mostly I have run WVO blended with gasoline at 20%, and it runs just fine.

However, burning WMO blends nearly ruined my engine, so I would not recommend
WMO for that engine, unless it is distilled. Distilling WMO is why I am here, and why I
have a pyrolysis section on my forum. However, I plan to pyrolyze plastics, rubber,
scrap wood, cow dung, you name it.

I will PM you a link to a thread on a different site that I am on where your input would be appriciative.
Long and short, Many folks have mentioned that WMO is risky to run in the 6.2L/6.5L GM, however,
there is research being done on the various casting numbers of the cylinder heads, injection pumps,
injectors, and fuel filtration systems because some folks have had outstanding results with WMO in
these engines, while others avoid it like the plague.

More on topic for this thread, have you successfully ran WMO through your pyrolysis reactor to obtain
a safer fuel for our engines (6.2L GM)? Are you titrating your Pyrolized WMO/bio-oil in the same
manner as processing WVO into biodiesel? What are your results? I think the processing, blending,
and mixing of these fuels does fit into this thread as well. Which also leads to one more question:
Why isn't anyone condensing or using a catalyst for making methanol? The methanol produced could
be used to further process the diesel produced.
__________________

02-24-2013, 09:51 PM #22226688

Join Date: Feb 2013

Tplane37 Posts: 15
Junior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPLLA
ASSTTIIC
CTTR
RIIX
X
I have recently found a great source of plastic. A friend of mine is in upper
management at a large soft drink manufacturing facility, he gave me access to
upwards of 100 5 gal. syrup buckets with lids and 20 to 30 20gal. syrup drums a
day..This is a great free source of plastic. They have been paying to just toss them
into a 15yd dumpster.

An old high school friend of mine's father used to work for a simliarly situated large soft
drink manufacturing company. I wonder if I could end up with a similar "hook-up" locally.

What types of plastics are acquiring through this source? I am pondering on the shredder
question, I am thinking a hydraulic ram and 3-4 screw conveyors joining closely at the
output, but set wide enough for the containers at the input (envision just the corners of a 3
or 4 sided pyramid, either up-side-down, or turned 90 degrees on their sides)... the ram to
"help" the barrels get started in the shredding chamber...
__________________

02-25-2013, 02:26 PM #22226699

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaan
nee3
377
Here is what I suggest. Liquid nitrogen being pumped through sealed coils in a
double-insulated chest freezer (add the pink foam panel insulation used on the
exterior of houses to the outside of the deep freezer is how we have built these
freezers before). The dioxines would not make contact with the liquid nitrogen,
because the nitrogen would be in its own sealed system. The gases would pass
through the chest freezer in a similar way as your ice filled condensers, but flowing
liquid nitrogen is as approximately --330000 ddeeggrreeeess FF. This would absolutely quench the
exhaust gases... and when the liquid nitrogen goes to a gaseous state after flowing
through the freezer, it can be introduced to the reactor as a means of maintaining
the oxygen-free environment.

Our goals are not that same as the commercial incineration plant. While the commercial
incineration plant just wants the garbage gone at any expense, so they have tried running
the exhaust through a second burner and found it did not solve the dioxen problem, in fact it
exacerbated the problem; whereas, our goals are to make fuel, so we condense the exhaust
stream, which should remove all or most of the dioxens formed during pyrolysis, because
dioxens and the other polycyclic halogenated hydrocarbons have a high melting/boiling
point.

However, there are several implications here from processing halogenated hydrocarbons:
1) Processing halogenated hydrocarbons means that the inside of your pyrolysis equipment
is going to be contaminated with polycyclic halogenated hydrocarbons ie. dioxens and other
super-toxins, so the operators are at risk working on the unit.
2) Your fuel will also be contaminated with polycyclic halogenated hydrocarbons ie. dioxens
and other super-toxins, which means the exhaust of vehicles burning your fuel will be
contaminated with polycyclic halogenated hydrocarbons ie. dioxens and other super-toxins.
3) Your fuel will also become acidified due to the presence of halons in it. imakebiodiesel
discussed acidification of our fuel upthread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaan
nee3
377
This would probably not work with a reflux column. And we are left with another
question: What do the dioxines convert to after being quenched? And will the reform
in the mixed bio-oil when you do your second run?

Well, that is the problem, as long as you have halons in your pyrolysis unit you are going to
be making dioxens and other super-toxins. There is no way around it. So, that is why I want
to stay away from halogenated hydrocarbons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaannee3377
I will PM you a link to a thread on a different site that I am on where your input would be
appriciative.

I am doing research, so I am very happy to join other forums discussing turning waste oils
into diesel fuel, and various pyrolysis methods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaan
nee3
377
Long and short, Many folks have mentioned that WMO is risky to run in the 6.2L/6.5L
GM, however, there is research being done on the various casting numbers of the
cylinder heads, injection pumps, injectors, and fuel filtration systems because some
folks have had outstanding results with WMO in these engines, while others avoid it
like the plague.

Yes, I am a member of a wide number of diesel forums where burning WMO is on topic. And,
most people burning WMO in a 6.2/6.5DD coke their injectors, those who do not have turbo-
chargers. So, my conclusion is, if you want to burn undistilled WMO, then you need a
turbocharger, regardless of the diesel engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaannee3377
More on topic for this thread, have you successfully ran WMO through your pyrolysis reactor
to obtain a safer fuel for our engines (6.2L GM)?

I have only produced 10 us gallons (40L) of distilled WMO. I have run some of it in the fuel
tank, blended with WVO and gasoline with no observed precipitates, and it ran fine, with no
evidence of injector coking.

I have also run some of the distilled WMO in the crankcase with no evidence of sludge
formation on the rocker arm.

This weekend I produced 4.75 us gallons of WMO, most of which is motor oil weight, so I
plan to drain my engine lube and replace it with the distilled WMO, and run it for a week or
more. I hope to distill more WMO this week, and run it was well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaannee3377
Are you titrating your Pyrolized WMO/bio-oil in the same manner as processing WVO into
biodiesel?

No, I am a blender. That means I blend light fractions with heavier fractions to create a
middle weight diesel blend. This means most of the time I blend gasoline with WVO at 20%,
settle for 1-7 days, then filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaannee3377
What are your results?

I have run this blend on my engine for 6 years. I have done the same thing with WMO, and
it has always coked my injectors. However, such blends with distilled WMO do not seem to
pose a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaan
nee3
377
 I think the processing, blending, and mixing of these fuels does fit into this thread as well.
Which also leads to one more question: Why isn't anyone condensing or using a catalyst for
making methanol? The methanol produced could be used to further process the diesel
produced.

Petroleum refineries make methanol via a hydration process, which involves putting methane into a
container, pressurizing it in the presence of hydrogen and a catalyst to 1000 PSI and at about 1000F.
This makes it completely outside of the DIY enthusiast.

Also, making biodiesel to me is a brain-dead way of turning waste oils into diesel fuel, because
blending gasoline with waste oils works very well, and takes much less effort to do.

Sorry to any biodiesel makers. I mean no offense.

__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van
with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the
engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have
found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter,
my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

02-25-2013, 04:50 PM #22227700

Join Date: Feb 2013

Tplane37 Posts: 15
Junior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Beeyyoonndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
Our goals are not that same as the commercial incineration plant.

I was focused more on the temperatures achieved in incineration than the reset of the
process. Though pyrolysis differ from incineration in several aspects, one basic concept
exists in both: high temperatures. I was unable to find anything directly related to
neutralizing dioxines in the pyrolysis process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBeeyyoon
ndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
Well, that is the problem, as long as you have halons in your pyrolysis unit you are
going to be making dioxens and other super-toxins. There is no way around it. So,
that is why I want to stay away from halogenated hydrocarbons.

You sure know how to burst someone's bubble! But that is a very good point that I did not
consider, contamination of the reaction chamber itself. And since it would be counter
productive (and probably explosively dangerous) to quench the retort during a run, this is a
very good reason to avoid such plastics. The post-run contamination is enough to avoid the
process all together, at least in a multi-use processor. If one were to process Fluff, it needs
to have its own devoted processor. But from the sounds of things, it is simply to risky to do.
Not only for the health and environmental reason, but there are also concerns with laws and
regulations in the U.S. that could carry excessive fines and imprisonment. I think I will let
this idea alone for now. (not that I won't continue to ponder over time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBeeyyoonndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
I am doing research, so I am very happy to join other forums discussing turning waste oils
into diesel fuel, and various pyrolysis methods.

That forum is more closely linked to the mechanical aspects of the end use machine than it
is to the pyrolysis process itself. However, if one can easily compliment the other through a
little extra manual labor, then we are in good shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Beeyyoonndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
So, my conclusion is, if you want to burn undistilled WMO, then you need a turbocharger,
regardless of the diesel engine.

That is extremely helpful. thank you for that information. I guess I really do need to get to
my neighbor's house and talk him out of those spare 6.5 turbo parts to put on my 6.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBeeyyoon
ndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
I have only produced 10 us gallons (40L) of distilled WMO. I have run some of it in
the fuel tank, blended with WVO and gasoline with no observed precipitates, and it
ran fine, with no evidence of injector coking. * * *
 No, I am a blender. That means I blend light fractions with heavier fractions to create a
middle weight diesel blend. This means most of the time I blend gasoline with WVO at 20%,
settle for 1-7 days, then filter.

I am not yet doing either process, I am still in the research stages. I've owned this truck for about a
month, and I bought it for the purpose of getting involved with the repurposing various types of
waste oils. Now given, a Mercedes diesel would have been a better suited project for what is done
here and cheaper too, but I needed a truck, so that's how I ended up with what I have.

I am a ways behind you on the production of usable alternatives to diesel, but once I start producing,
and testing, I would like to share my results with you, and would appreciate the same from you...
especially if you find something that DOES NOT work in our engine! I am also going to look into
the blending process at least briefly. I am one of those types that has to do something to figure out if
I want do it again, but I will steer clear of projects that are clearly unsafe by any stretch, as can be
noted by the discussion of Fluff (Safety first... if it can't be done safely, then don't do it until it can.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by B
Beeyyoon
ndd B
Biiooddiieesseell
Petroleum refineries make methanol via a hydration process, which involves putting
methane into a container, pressurizing it in the presence of hydrogen and a catalyst
to 1000 PSI and at about 1000F. This makes it completely outside of the DIY
enthusiast.

Now it's making sense why I cannot find more information on the poduction of methanol! This does
not rule it out for me, it just explains a lot. I know of farmers who are converting the methane
produced by cow manure that are running it over a catalyst which reacts with the methane to turn it
into a liquid state, the liquid is either very similar to, or is methanol. It's a two part catalyst in a
down-flow type set up. the vapors are pumped in from the top of a chamber at a low psi (just enough
to flow), and the vaopr hit the catalyst bed, then they condensate, and drip out the bottom into a 55
gallon drum. Here's one for you, one of the catalysts... rust! Good old FeO2 (Iron Oxide). I haven't
found the second one, they all say "It's a secret." Hmph!
__________________

02-25-2013, 06:21 PM #22227711

Join Date: Feb 2013

arens Posts: 1
Junior Member

@
@JJeettiijjss

Hi Jetijs!
I just created this account to contact you.
I would like to build/develope the tecnology that you wrote in this forum 3 years ago, and
use it in my company to produce fuel in a large scale with, and I want you to be an
important part of it with your knowlegde in the field.
Let me know.
Sincerly
Arens Myzyri
arensmyzyri@(gmaildotcom)
skype arens85
__________________

Last edited by arens; 02-25-2013 at 06:24 PM.

02-25-2013, 06:49 PM #22227722

Join Date: Sep 2007

waterboost Posts: 56
Member Send

C
Coonnssiisstteenntt FFuueell

I think we have finally cracked it... fast warm up using the flu pipe waste heat and limiting
the reflux to 190 degrees C... The first 20 litres of proper fuel!

Still havent caught a single drop of fuel in my second and third condensers...

Anyone tried their high grade stuff in a 2-stroke engine?

Attached Images
cracked_it.jpg (96.9 KB, 231 views)

__________________
 02-25-2013, 07:09 PM #22227733

Join Date: Jun 2011

imakebiodiesel Posts: 354
Senior Member

Keeping your reflux temp as low as 190C will ensure you get only fully cracked light
distillates. I have run my garden strimmer and my chain saw all last summer on this type of
fuel with no problems. Less smoke when starting cold and smooth running with very little
smell.
I have finally finished my new reactor and hope to do a few test runs with it next week if
other(paid) work permits. This retort will hold 50Kg of waste plastic and all the fuel will be
condensed in a single water cooled condenser. Later the crude fuel will be separated into
kerosene and light distillate. It has a continuous gas purging system and is fully automatic
once the retort is filled and the lid is bolted on.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

__________________

02-25-2013, 10:36 PM #22227744

Join Date: Jan 2013

PLASTICTRIX Location: Taxachusetts USA
Junior Member Posts: 29

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaan
nee3
377
An old high school friend of mine's father used to work for a simliarly situated large
soft drink manufacturing company. I wonder if I could end up with a similar "hook-
up" locally.

What types of plastics are acquiring through this source? I am pondering on the
shredder question, I am thinking a hydraulic ram and 3-4 screw conveyors joining
closely at the output, but set wide enough for the containers at the input (envision
just the corners of a 3 or 4 sided pyramid, either up-side-down, or turned 90 degrees
on their sides)... the ram to "help" the barrels get started in the shredding
chamber...

The soft drink industry uses many different plastics, but unfortunately 99% of drink bottles
themselves are PETE (not good for pyrolysis) and from what i understand the manufacturer
of the bottles takes back all of the dud/scrap PETE bottles and remelts them anyways, but
most of the dud caps are HDPE or PP.. I was only offered the syrup containers, the 5 gal.
pails and the standard white or blue 20gal. drums are pure HDPE and are good for pyrolysis.
they just give them away or throw them away in a dumpster.

As far as the grinder..I have done alot of thinking and the cheapest most efficient way i can
come up with is building a horizontal drum out of a 20 gal. welltrol pressure tank. Wrap tank
with chainsaw chain intermittently welded in a spiral "V" pattern spaced about 1/4in apart,
that meets in the center much like a snowblower auger. then build a vertical hopper with
zero side and anvil clearance so it would, in essence gravity feed itself. It would be powered
by a 5hp geared elec. motor so it has a lot of power and spins slow enough as not to create
friction/ heat and get gummed up by hot plastic. It should turn any plastic containers into
little 1/4in shavings.
__________________

02-26-2013, 02:31 PM #22227755

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTppllaannee3377
You sure know how to burst someone's bubble!

Well, I like to inspire people to think outside of the envelope, but to do it safely. I was the
OSHA health and safety inspector and QC at a food processing plant for several years, so it
food quality and health and safety are now ingrained in me.

I have current health problems due to an industrial accident that nearly killed me working
overtime at Chevron Research, and I was injured on the job there several times using
processes and equipment that were less than safe. And, the lab I worked in had only one
middle aged technician, all the rest of us were in our 20s, even though the lab dated back to
WWII.

That lab had the remnants of a process that used Hydrofluoric acid at cracking temperatures. I figure
they had an accident that killed everyone but the old technician who was probably sick that day.

So, I do not want to be a part of a discussion that has safety hazards that are not clearly understood
by all in that discussion.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTppllaan

nee3
377
That is extremely helpful. thank you for that information. I guess I really do need to
get to my neighbor's house and talk him out of those spare 6.5 turbo parts to put on
my 6.2.

I am not yet doing either process, I am still in the research stages. I've owned this
truck for about a month, and I bought it for the purpose of getting involved with the
repurposing various types of waste oils. Now given, a Mercedes diesel would have
been a better suited project for what is done here and cheaper too, but I needed a
truck, so that's how I ended up with what I have.

I am a ways behind you on the production of usable alternatives to diesel, but once I
start producing, and testing, I would like to share my results with you, and would
appreciate the same from you... especially if you find something that DOES NOT
work in our engine! I am also going to look into the blending process at least
briefly. I am one of those types that has to do something to figure out if I want do it
again, but I will steer clear of projects that are clearly unsafe by any stretch, as can
be noted by the discussion of Fluff (Safety first... if it can't be done safely, then don't
do it until it can.)

I am always happy to share information on my topics of interest, because I learn quite a bit along the
way. There is quite a lot of discussion on burning WMO on a 6.2/6.5 DD forum. I reread through the
forum and found everyone who had no trouble burning WMO had a turbo, and everyone who had
trouble did not. Link below:
ALTERNATIVE FUELs over 7k mies - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

I then found another long discussion of burning WMO in a diesel engine on another forum, where
there was one guy who had nothing but trouble, and he had a 6.2L DD engine.
CONVERTING WASTE MOTOR OIL TO DIESEL FUEL - Diesel Bombers
Used motor oil - Diesel Bombers

My forum has a whole section on burning WMO in a diesel engine.

Making Black Diesel (WMO)

There is another factor in why WMO can be burned in some diesel engines, even though they are not
turbo-charged. Some people just have access to very clean WMO; whereas most of us get total
sludge as WMO. So, I believe it is the translucence factor that can make the difference.
Making Translucent WMO Blend Diesel Fuel

Good work PLASTICTRIX and imakebiodiesel I like to see the photos.

I presently am still working with a 6-gallon (22.7L) retort. I just bought a 10-gallon (37.8L) retort,
which will be operational soon. I plan to work toward a 40-50 gallon (150-190L) retort.
__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van
with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the
engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have
found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter,
my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

02-26-2013, 04:01 PM #22227766

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

PS:
While on the topic of cracking halogenated hydrocarbons, I ran a 5-gallon sample of waste
TCE through my pyrolysis unit about 2 months ago. I recognized the smell, but I could not
place it until after I had run it. What a mistake!

At cracking temperature my pyrolysis unit emitted large volumes of HCL gas, which gagged
me. Later I found the bubbler handled the HCL gas just fine.

But, opening my condenser traps and retort to extract my samples after the run was very
difficult to do, because the odors inside those containers was extremely offensive. So, I
would not knowingly crack any halogenated hydrocarbons again.
__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy
G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I
have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend
down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer,
and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel
fuel.

02-27-2013, 12:12 AM #22227777

Join Date: Jun 2012

Beyond Biodiesel Location: Prescott, AZ
Senior Member Posts: 391

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPLLA
ASSTTIIC
CTTR
RIIX
X
As far as the grinder..I have done alot of thinking and the cheapest most efficient
way i can come up with is building a horizontal drum out of a 20 gal. welltrol
pressure tank. Wrap tank with chainsaw chain intermittently welded in a spiral "V"
pattern spaced about 1/4in apart, that meets in the center much like a snowblower
auger. then build a vertical hopper with zero side and anvil clearance so it would, in
essence gravity feed itself. It would be powered by a 5hp geared elec. motor so it
has a lot of power and spins slow enough as not to create friction/ heat and get
gummed up by hot plastic. It should turn any plastic containers into little 1/4in
shavings.

Perhaps a chipper would work to grind up plastic prior to pysrolysis?

__________________
I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy
G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I
have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend
down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer,
and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel
fuel.

02-27-2013, 09:57 AM #22227788

Join Date: Feb 2012

Excalibur Posts: 452
Senior Member

Quote:
Perhaps a chipper would work to grind up plastic

I borrowed two smaller electric home handyman sized garden chippers. Both of those were
absolutely pathetic at plastic. Actually they didn't chip branches that well either. Studying
the problem I identified a couple of shortcomings. Firstly the blade type wasn't suited to the
task and secondly they were well short of enough power. I've worked on proper industrial
plastic chippers to appreciate the difference. Their cutters were mounted on a shaft that
resembled a crankshaft! Metal detectors were an important part of running them as even a
small piece of steel could do untold damage in a split second..
The pic in BB's link hasn't been tested on plastic that I seen but at least it would have
enough power.
One possible way to get a chipper that's up to the task would be to watch out for industrial
auctions selling redundant plastics factory equipment. Buy one with or without motor as it
would be 3 phase anyway, then fit up a large stationary engine or perhaps a car engine to
drive it.
Lastly try to get a machine that would swallow a whole 20L cubie at once otherwise you'll
have to slit them first on a bandsaw. I tried cutting cubies once on a circular saw and I don't
recommend it.
__________________
http://diydiesel.blogspot.co.nz/

02-27-2013, 05:42 PM #22227799

 Join Date: Feb 2013
marjan1545 Posts: 2
Junior Member

Izgleda ko čaša piva

__________________

02-27-2013, 06:00 PM #22228800

Join Date: Feb 2013

marjan1545 Posts: 2
Junior Member

Pozdrav, kolji izmenjivač imaš za hlađenje?

__________________

Page 76 of 146 «« First < 26 66 74 75 7766 77 78 86 126 > Last »»

«« Previous Thread | Next Thread »»

PPoossttiinngg RRuulleess

You m
maayy nnoott post new threads
You m
maayy nnoott post replies
You m
maayy nnoott post attachments
You m
maayy nnoott edit your posts

BB code is O
Onn
Smilies are O
Onn
[IMG] code is OOnn
HTML code is OOffff

Forum Rules

Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

For One-Time Donations, use admin@ this domain > energeticforum.com
Choose your voluntary subscription
$5 : $5.00 USD - monthly

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:34 PM.

EEnneerrggeettiicc FFoorruum
m -- A
Arrcchhiivvee -- PPrriivvaaccyy S
Sttaatteem
meenntt -- TTeerrm
mss ooff S
Seerrvviiccee -- TToopp

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8

Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies
Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator