COMEDY ACTOR ROUNDTABLE THE WGA’S DISRUPTION TACTICS CAN BOTS BE FUNNY?

With Jason Segel, Steven Yeun, Mo Amer, Assessing the effectiveness of Computer scientists say comedy writers
John Mulaney and Tyler James Williams the union’s shut-it-down strategy don’t need to sweat AI — yet

May 31, 2023

Ubiquitous multihyphenate
TAIKA WAITITI knows empowerment
doesn’t have to be earnest: “Comedy is a
great way of pulling people in and going,
‘Hey, we’re all friends. Get comfortable.
You’re racist’ ”

EVA LONGORIA
AND NIECY NASH-BETTS
Two outspoken trailblazers
in conversation

THR TITAN JAMES WAN

The Aquaman director and prolific
horror producer on
scaring up opportunities — and hits

THE TOP 50 FORCES

FOR CHANGE
 Issue No. 17, May 31, 2023

FEATURES
40
‘Am I Allowed to Laugh at This?’
With playfulness and subversive
humor, multihyphenate Taika Waititi
is redefining Native representation
in projects like Reservation Dogs
and Next Goal Wins — and seems
to be having more fun in Hollywood
than just about anyone else.

46
‘Can I Invite You to Think
Differently About Me?’
Eva Longoria and Niecy Nash-Betts
— who will be given THR’s inaugu-
ral Trailblazer Awards on May 31 at
the Raising Our Voices gala — reflect
on shifting perceptions and the
next generation: “Sometimes people
have to be shown something to know
that it’s possible.”

56
The Top HBCU Grads
Working in Hollywood
Historically black colleges and
universities not only provided a
strong education for these success-
ful, award-winning industry insiders,
but also a chance to connect that
paid off in long careers: “I was free to
be me. It was not based on my race.”

60
THR Titan: James Wan
The mind behind the Conjuring
universe and Insidious talks his
future with Jason Blum, putting
the final touches on his Aquaman
sequel and creating opportunities for
Asian talent in Hollywood.

64
Comedy Actor Roundtable:
How to Get to That ‘Fuck It,
I’ll Do What I Want’ Place
Jason Segel, Steven Yeun, Mo Amer,
John Mulaney and Tyler James
Williams on learning to embrace
the hives, buy the BMW and push
your crazy puppet musical idea even
if everyone’s telling you it’s stupid.

72
Awards Playbook: 20 Scene-
Stealers Who Broke Through
In a season filled with shows boast-
ing A-listers leading ensembles
— or series packed with guest actors
galore — it was often the supporting
“This whole idea of players who caught our attention.
chasing, chasing, chasing The performers reflect on their charac-
this life. It’s like, do we
have to actually work ters and how their onscreen personas
this hard? Maybe not,” would lead their own spinoffs.
says Taika Waititi. He was
photographed April 26
at Pier59 in New York.
Hermès jumpsuit,
Jimmy Choo boots, IWC watch.
On the cover:
Isabel Marant sweater.

Photographed here and

or the cover by Paul Yem
FOR YOUR EMMY CONSIDERATION IN ALL CATEGORIES INCLUDING
®

OUTSTANDING COMEDY SERIES

OUTSTANDING LEAD ACTOR – SYLVESTER STALLONE

THE REPORT
13 Picket Lines That Hit the
Bottom Line
As the writers strike extends into its
second month, protesters are focusing
efforts on shutting down productions.
Studio executives privately concede it’s
been an effective tactic so far.
16 Can AI Be Funny?
While the tech has been a focus of the
strike, researchers in the field of com-
putational humor believe that original,
path-breaking comedy will likely remain
out of the conceptual reach of such
machinery in the near term.
20 The Succession Effect: Do the
Other Dramas Stand a Chance?
The HBO hit, which aired its final episode
May 28, is the overwhelming frontrun-
ner — which network competitors seem
to acknowledge with their muted Emmy
campaigns and strategic submissions.
22 7 Days of Deals
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
48 60
ABOUT TOWN
25 Next Big Thing: Teo Yoo
The actor explains why he wasn’t allowed
to so much as hug his co-star during
rehearsals for A24’s Past Lives.
26 How GenSpace Is Rewriting
the Narrative About Aging
Inside Wallis Annenberg’s Koreatown-
based senior center, where programming
has included the cast of 80 for Brady
talking about the importance of repre-
senting older adults onscreen.
32 Hitched, Hatched, Hired
Actress Gloria Reuben on being a backup
singer for a 2000 Tina Turner world tour.
STYLE
36 Birding Is Hollywood’s New
Form of Meditation
“You’re forced to pay attention,” says one
industry birder of the once stodgy-seem-
ing activity that is taking off, fueled by a
pandemic-born interest in slowing down.
Quinta Brunson photographed by Obidi Nzeribe
4 M AY 31, 2023
38 Aqua, Man
Navy has been replaced as the hot
color in status watches with a range of
sea-inspired blues.
REVIEWS
78 Critics’ Conversation: The Highs
and Lows of Spring TV
Daniel Fienberg and Angie Han weigh in.
THR INSIDER
83 Women In Film at 50: ‘Helping
the Next Gen Get Into Jobs’
In 1973, the publisher of THR started
the gender-equality conversation that
continues today.
88 Tribeca Fetes Directorial
Debuts of Michael Shannon
and Chelsea Peretti
90 ‘A Feeling of Responsibility’
Josh Dallas will tout Manifest at
the ATX TV Festival in place of his
striking showrunner.
Issue No. 17, May 31, 2023
38
38
The just-launched Doxa
Aquamarine Sub 200
C-Graph II features a
turquoise sunburst dial with
a new reflective finish in a
42mm steel case. Features
on this dive watch include
a chronograph function
and water resistance to
200 meters, all on a matching
turquoise rubber strap;
$2,850, doxawatches.com
48
A force for change, Abbott
Elementary star and creator
Quinta Brunson has donated
much of the marketing
budget for her sitcom to pay
WAN: LIONSGATE/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. WATCH: COURTESY OF BRAND.
for school supplies.
60
THR Titan James Wan
(left) mapped out a scene
with Cary Elwes on the set
of 2004’s Saw.
 Nekesa Mumbi Moody
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T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 6 M AY 31, 2023

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T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 8 M AY 31, 2023

 Editor’s Letter

1 2

THR’S INAUGURAL RAISING OUR VOICES ISSUE

MO0DY: DIANA KING. MATLIN, MORALES, VALDERRAMA: STEFANIE KEENAN/GETTY IMAGES FOR THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER. RUNNINGWATER: MICHAEL KOVAC/GETTY IMAGES FOR THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER. SUN: COURTESY OF SUBJECT.
COMPLEMENTS ITS SECOND DE&I GALA

I
f we’re being completely honest, it’s been a little quiet on
the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion front compared to just
three years ago. To be sure, the dizzying events over the
past few months — from the struggles of streaming to the
budget cuts across Hollywood to the labor strife, including the
WGA strike — have edged out such stories from the headlines.
But if we are really keeping it real, it grew quiet even before
Sun
that. After the police murder of George Floyd shook the world
and gave us a racial reckoning not seen in generations, there
was a flood of dollars pledged to help eradicate the racial
disparities that have been built into the fabric of this country.
There were lots of promises made, seminars held and senti-
ments shared, not just in the entertainment industry but
across all sections of society.
As time went on, though, we’ve seen less attention and, in
1 From left: CODA
some circles, fewer resources dedicated to a mission that once stars Daniel Durant,
seemed universally embraced. Perhaps that’s why now it’s so Troy Kotsur and
Marlee Matlin
important to get loud about DE&I — and why we’re proud to attended THR’s
debut this Raising Our Voices issue with our Forces for Change Raising Our Voices
2022 luncheon at
power list, including our cover star, Taika Waititi (page 40). The Maybourne
Beverly Hills.
The Oscar winner is a key example of a change agent using 2 Natalie Morales
his craft and power to create a different landscape for under- (left) and Amy
Landecker.
represented voices. From Reservation Dogs to his upcoming 3 Bird Runningwater
Next Goal Wins, Waititi has centered Indigenous creatives, and Crystal Echo
Hawk spoke at
both in front of and behind the camera, not only generating Raising Our Voices.
4 From left:
more opportunities but also expanding the stories we see, Jennifer Rodriguez
making for a richer viewing experience for all. (an executive at
Walmart, the event
The others on our Forces for Change list (page 48) have sponsor), Gloria
achieved similar goals in various ways, from what they’ve Calderón Kellett,
Wilmer Valderrama
greenlit to what they’ve produced to what they’ve written or and Javier Angulo.
starred in. It’s a part of their mantra and their mission, and
whether announced prominently or done behind the scenes, it
still makes a loud statement. The list is not meant to represent
all the important work done by so many people in Hollywood
(for example, Women in Film, whose mission for 50 years has
been to increase opportunities for women in entertainment, is
featured on page 83), but to present a snapshot of those leading
the charge in a compelling way. It is the brainchild of our bril-
liant senior editor, diversity and inclusion, Rebecca Sun, but
does not represent her vision in its entirety: As this project was
being completed, she gave birth to her very own change agent.
The Hollywood Reporter remains deeply committed to
championing DE&I on all platforms of our publication, and all
aspects of it, from across a number of underrepresented com-
munities — racial, ethnic, disability, LGBTQ and seniors. It’s
why we launched Culture Shift in April, the biweekly newsletter
that spotlights such matters with smart analysis, commen-
tary and news. And THR will be celebrating the changemakers
in this space with its second annual Raising Our Voices lun-
cheon on May 31 at GenSpace in Koreatown. We are incredibly
excited to honor Waititi, as well as Eva Longoria and Niecy
Nash-Betts, who speak about their unique paths in Hollywood
in an interview with contributing editor (and Raising Our
Voices event programmer) Stacey Wilson Hunt (page 46).
So, indeed, let’s get loud and Raise Our Voices on matters of
DE&I every chance we get.
Nekesa Mumbi Moody, editorial director
@nekesamumbi

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 10 M AY 31, 2023

congratulates our client

JAMES WAN
THR Titan

and salutes our clients named among The Hollywood Reporter’s 2023 Forces For Change

GREG BERLANTI
QUINTA BRUNSON
RUPAUL CHARLES
VIOLA DAVIS
AVA DUVERNAY
STERLIN HARJO
SPIKE LEE*
GLEN MAZZARA
RYAN MURPHY
JONATHAN MURRAY
EDWARD JAMES OLMOS
JORDAN PEELE
GINA PRINCE-BYTHEWOOD
SHONDA RHIMES
JULIUS TENNON
TAIKA WAITITI
KERRY WASHINGTON

*Shared representation
 James, you are a true pioneer.
What an extraordinary, well-deserved honour.
Here’s to many more fond memories and exciting adventures...
C O N G R AT U L AT I O N S T I TA N !
 ↑ Deals
‘Time to Monetize’
The merging WWE and UFC
eye TV rights sales p. 22

Theater
Post-COVID Rebound
The Re ort Behind the Headlines
A closer look at Broadway’s
2022-23 season p. 18

Heat Index

Casey Bloys
In a win for the newly
rebranded Max, the HBO
chief sees the Succession
series finale hit a ratings
high of 2.9 million viewers
on all platforms.

Shari Redstone
It’s not a sign of great stability
when National Amusements,
the owner of Paramount
Global, needs to turn to
outside financiers for an extra
$125 million in liquidity.
Execs Say Writers’ Shut-It-Down
Strategy Has Been Effective
As the strike extends into its second month, protesters are focusing efforts on stopping
in-progress productions. Higher-ups at the studios privately concede it’s been working
BY GARY BAUM, KATIE KILKENNY AND LESLEY GOLDBERG

SZA
The artist’s “Kill Bill” breaks
Billboard’s Hot R&B/Hip-Hop
Songs chart record held by
Lil Nas X’s “Old Town Road,”
with 21 weeks in the No. 1 spot.
EMANUEL: CHRIS UNGER/ZUFFA LLC/GETTY IMAGES. LEIGHT: JOHN LAMPARSKI/WIREIMAGE. BLOYS: KEVIN MAZUR/GETTY IMAGES. REDSTONE: PAUL
R
ight now, Warren Leight
— the veteran showrun-
ner of Law & Order: Special
Victims Unit and Writers Guild
strike captain — is losing sleep to
make sure a TV program doesn’t
make it to air. He’s a key figure
a TV writer and showrunner as
well as his high profile on social
media, has, along with a growing
number of WGA counterparts,
helped organize a series of suc-
cessful labor actions — small
groups assembling within hours,
indefinitely on May 19. Picketer
Kyra Jones (Woke, Queens) says
these actions “hit [employers] in
the pockets harder than anything
else that we’re doing. And so
hopefully that will get them to get
us back on track and get us back

in his union’s pivot to embrace a whose protest lines are often working.” Adds Lauren Conn (The
more targeted picketing strategy, respected (and sometimes joined) Lost Symbol), who also joined the
MORIGI/GETTY IMAGES. SZA: FRAZER HARRISON/GETTY IMAGES FOR THE RECORDING ACADEMY. MUSK: JUSTIN SULLIVAN/GETTY IMAGES.

Elon Musk
As the mogul tries to
position Twitter as a rival
to traditional news media,
Fidelity estimates the platform
has lost a third of its value
since its $44 billion sale.
Showbiz Stocks
$11.18 (+4%)
LIONSGATE (LGF)
The independent studio
saw its share price pop after
promising investors “a regular
cadence of John Wick.”
$ 87.82 (-3.6%)
DISNEY (DIS)
With Donald Trump and Ron
DeSantis both attacking
the company as the 2024
campaign gets started,
Disney’s share price has
been under pressure.
May 23-30
which seeks to shut down produc-
tions. “This morning we had two
dozen people at 2 a.m. out on the
street, blocking Billions, which
is metaphorically perfect,” he
told THR’s TV’s Top 5 podcast on
May 24, discussing a recent expan-
sion from show-of-force protests
at corporate headquarters to more
disruptive actions meant to affect
bottom lines and reorient power
dynamics. The strategy change-up
emerged from the membership’s
rank and file, he says, although the
guild brass now “realizes that this
is a pretty powerful thing.”
Leight, drawing on connec-
tions from his long history as
by Teamsters, IATSE members
and other sympathetic allies. The
result is production shutdowns.
“The whole idea is to empty
the [content] pipe-
line,” he says.
The closures have
crossed the coun-
Leight try, from Loot and
Good Trouble in Los
Angeles to The Chi in Chicago and
Evil in New York.
Earlier in May, writers pick-
eted the on-location L.A. shoot
of writer-director Aziz Ansari’s
Lionsgate film Good Fortune
for about two and a half days,
until production was suspended
Illustration by Zohar Lazar
Good Fortune picket line, “We have
to make sure that no writing is
happening across the board.”
The focus on shutdowns, which
rely on the cooperation of fellow
workplace unions, is a remark-
able shift for the Writers Guild.
During its previous strike in
2007-08, when it found itself far
more isolated and at odds with its
nominal labor allies, there was no
equivalent strategy. Now the guild
finds itself the beneficiary of
unity, in alignment with the frac-
tious Hollywood worker caucus of
other unions, each nursing their
own set of at times overlapping
grievances, and eager to soften

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 13 M AY 31, 2023

 The Report
Behind the Headlines
the ground for their own contract
negotiations. For its part, the
WGA declined to “discuss the spe-
cifics” of the shutdown strategy.
On average, a lost day of
production costs companies
between $200,000 and $300,000.
Insurance policies don’t cover
shutdowns that are caused by the
strike. Leading industry under-
writer Allianz notes to THR, “It
is still early days and too soon to
speculate on any impact on future
insurance premiums.”
Like the pandemic’s recent
effect on studio slates, some
of the in-progress productions
abandoned during the strike may
not return when it’s over, top
company decision-makers say.
Considerations will include the
number of remaining episodes left
to film in the season, the availabil-
ity of the cast and the importance
of the show to its platform.
Multiple high-level execu-
tives who spoke with THR on the
condition of anonymity used
the same word to describe the
guerrilla-style activities: “effec-
tive.” It’s prompted an ongoing
cat-and-mouse game. Rapid-
response units of WGA members
mobilize to picket at studio gates
and at location shoot sites based
on tip-offs. Although L.A. loca-
tion permits are public record
(with some limits), at least some
of the actionable information,
especially the more last-minute
intelligence, is originating from
sympathetic members of other
unions. Picketing shifts often
begin, end or persist overnight to
ensure that their lines won’t be
crossed. To counter these efforts,
some productions have circulated
call sheets featuring incorrect
call times and, in the case of
Billions, have bused crewmembers
to set, potentially to ease their
way across the picket lines and
allow them some anonymity.
Jones recalls showing up to one
production-targeted picket at
Hollywood’s Raleigh Studios and
finding no production activity
occurring. “No one came — they
either pushed the shoot back or
they moved to another place, or
maybe we got the wrong informa-
tion,” she says.
Lindsay Dougherty, the
Hollywood Teamsters leader
whose drivers have been turn-
ing away from the picket lines
(her organization is scheduled
for negotiations with the AMPTP
next year), says she’s unsurprised
by the WGA’s move to shut down
productions. “If this was our
strike,” she says, “we would be
doing the same thing.”
Key grip and stunt rigger Wade
Cordts is the administrator of a
Facebook group that has become a
conduit for crewmember-sourced
production information to WGA
picketers. He believes brimming
anger across the
industry has created
a unique moment
of solidarity. “Right
Dougherty now, everybody’s
‘below the line,’ ”
Cordts, a member of both SAG-
AFTRA and IATSE, observes. “It’s
these megacorporations that are
trying to break labor.”
One programmer observes that
the shutdowns are putting crew-
members out of work on projects
for which the writers have already
been paid. “Who is this really
hurting?” they say. “Is it really
hurting the studios? Not really.”
The sentiment is echoed by a top
production executive on another
lot, who adds: “It’s all expense-
driven. Saves them on taxes.”
One veteran showrunner and
longtime WGA member doesn’t
buy the notion that there’s any
silver lining for the studios, con-
sidering that spin. “If it’s saving
them money, shutting all shows
down and getting out of show-
biz will really save them all the
money,” this person says.
Regardless, labor experts
observe that, for the writers and
their guild, the shutdowns are
more broadly about flexing their
muscles, cultivating their alli-
ances and lifting their spirits.
“It stops production, but it’s
also a way to advertise strength
and determination,” explains
Georgetown professor Michael
Kazin, who studies union power.
Adds University of Rhode Island
professor Erik Loomis, author of A
History of America in Ten Strikes:
“Keeping up morale is critically
important. Otherwise, people slip
away — they look for other work,
they cross the picket line.”
As Dougherty, the Hollywood
Teamsters chief, puts it regard-
ing tacit and overt support of
the writers’ shutdown strategy,
“It’s a sacrifice that everybody’s
making because everybody wants
the strike to end as fast as pos-
sible. That’s the hope — that the
productions will all come back
sooner, because these projects
obviously are important to
the employers.”

Producers Guild Presidents to Writers: Why We’re With You in This Fight
Stephanie Allain and Donald De Line explain how their trade organization’s battles parallel the issues underlying this spring’s strike
AS TOLD TO KATIE KILKENNY

O n May 19 at a press conference at the Cannes Film

Festival, Sean Penn railed against the Producers
Guild of America and called us the “Bankers’ Guild,” which
is hilarious, because we’re anything but the Bankers’
Guild. Sean admittedly confused us with the AMPTP, the
Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, a
group that negotiates on behalf of studios, streamers and
qualify, there is an opportunity to get insurance through
the Motion Picture Industry Pension & Health Plans, but
you have to qualify for it, most people don’t know about
it, and you have to elect it immediately or you can’t get
it. But this does not even begin to address
the health care insurance crisis for pro-
ducers. We need a broader, more secure
began paying a premium up front, it sounded great. Except
that now they’re selling ad-based subscriptions at a lesser
price, and they’re getting all this ad revenue, which we
used to share in, but don’t share in anymore. And once it
runs on their platform, they’re downselling to other plat-
forms, and we don’t get any of that money, either.
We’re advocating for all producers to know their

DOUGHERTY: RAMON FELIX/TEAMSTERS LOCAL 399. ALLAIN: CHARLEY GALLAY/GETTY IMAGES FOR
networks with all the guilds that are labor unions. That solution for all. worth, know their value, and to communicate that value
moment presents an important opportunity to clarify the Another issue of concern is that produc- to their representatives so that studios, networks and

THE AMERICAN CINEMATHEQUE. DE LINE: MICHAEL BUCKNER/VARIETY VIA GETTY IMAGES.

difference between the PGA and the AMPTP.
The PGA is not a union. It is a nonprofit trade organiza-
tion. We do not have a collective bargaining agreement
with the AMPTP. We advocate for and educate our
members, and expose them to new ideas so they can work
to improve their deals. We’re a collection of individual pro-
ducers, as opposed to a collection of for-profit companies.
We also administer the p.g.a. mark, which is a service to
the industry because it certifies which producers have
met the guild’s producing standards (i.e., who really did
the work) and is relied upon by the Academy, BAFTA and
others to determine eligibility for their producing awards.
A major point of focus for the past several years is the
fact that we are the only artist on a union production that
has no minimum salary and no health insurance. We don’t
have health care, period. End of story. For those of us who
are fortunate enough to work on certain productions that
Allain ers are not guaranteed a minimum salary.
Thousands of our members are working
below the line without fair compensation,
even though their contributions are funda-
mental to a production’s success. These
producers are the lifeblood of any produc-
De Line tion and deserve better pay and benefits.
Creative producers might work on a
project for years, and yet get paid only if the film or show
gets made. Development fees have largely become extinct.
We identify material, find writers, develop the script, attach
a director and cast the movie, then supervise it through its
debut. It used to be that if you bet on yourself, you knew at
the end of the day that if the movie hit, you had success in
the upside of the movie. But with the advent of streamers,
that backend has disappeared and, in fact, inspired others
to get rid of backends. When television and streamers
streamers hear the same thing over and over again, which
is, “This is not fair, and we’ve got to make some changes.”
We have a lot of the same concerns that members of
the Writers Guild and other guilds have, except we have
no seat at the bargaining table. Issues for writers like
span protection [from decreased compensation during
long periods of production], mini-rooms and the time
it takes to get a series greenlit and going are similar
to what producers experience. The bottom line is that
our members understand the struggle. Writers are the
foundation of what we all do. And to see them not being
fairly compensated — it hurts. We are empathetic, we’re
sympathetic, and that’s why we’re aligned with them in
their fight for fair pay. They are putting their livelihoods
on the line not just for themselves, but for the business,
for the future of creative storytelling and for the culture.
And we share those values.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 14 M AY 31, 2023

 FOR YOUR EMMY CONSIDERATION
®

OUTSTANDING SCRIPTED
VARIETY SERIES

“VULGAR, FUNNY, FUN

AND SMART ABOUT HISTORY AND
THE MODERN WORLD.”

Can AI Be Funny?
The Answer: It Depends
Researchers believe that most original comedy is out of reach now for the tech, with
this caveat for studios: ‘How mediocre are you OK with your comedy being?’ BY GARY BAUM
M
any comedy writers view AI as no
laughing matter. “It’s horrific,”
Seth Rogen explained to THR at the
May 10 premiere of Apple TV+’s show Platonic,
in which he stars. “Any use of AI seems ter-
rifying and also just unfair from a financial
standpoint because it’s all being input with
things that they’re not keeping track of,”
referring to how the technology is trained on
material without its creators’ consent.
The wariness has intensified during the
ongoing writers strike. A key sticking point
in the broken-down contract negotiations
between the WGA and the AMPTP, which
bargains on behalf of studios, is a proposal
to regulate the use of artificial intelligence.
Machines wouldn’t be allowed to write or
rewrite literary material, or to be used as a
source, and union-covered output couldn’t be
used to train AI models, either. The studios
have rejected that plan, instead only offering
to meet once a year to discuss issues pre-
sented by the insurgent technology.
Writers Guild members see AI as not just
a looming threat but a clear and present
danger, believing the business landscape
will have inexorably changed by the next
negotiation cycle in several years. “ChatGPT
Doesn’t Have Childhood Trauma,” read one
sign at Radford Studio Center in the San
Fernando Valley. “A robot can’t feel shame,”
explained Harris Mayersohn (Tha God’s Honest
Truth With Charlamagne Tha God) on the
first day of protesting outside of Netflix’s
Hollywood headquarters.
For the most part, scientists in the AI
research field known as computational
humor think the immediate worry is over-
blown. These experts, some of whom have
been studying the questions surrounding
funny robots for decades, observe that large
language models can be taught to whip up
passable formulaic material because the
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
propagation of hack jokes relies on sys-
tematized pattern-recognition processes.
However, they believe that original, path-
breaking comedy will likely remain out of the
conceptual reach of such machinery, at least
in the near term, because it’s such a singu-
larly complex, quicksilver language. “Humor
is highly contextual and situational, which
makes it an extraordinarily difficult problem
to solve,” explains Georgia Tech’s Mark Riedl.
These specialists contend that AI appears
to face two essential challenges in creat-
ing comedy of high caliber. (While newly
released image and music generators have
wowed users with outputs that frequently
go viral, the latest wave of chatbots have so
far yielded no equivalent laugh-out-loud
watershed moment.) While it has access to
unfathomable knowledge, it can only lever-
age it to approximate life experience. At a
fundamental level, it may always struggle to
comprehend humans. “Unless the machine
understands why a joke is funny, you are
nowhere,” says Julia Rayz at Purdue.
The other problem is that AI, which synthe-
sizes existing data sets, would seem to be at
a disadvantage if the goal is to generate edgy,
boundary-pushing outputs: innovative gags,
rebellious conceits, unpredictable tonal deci-
sions. “AI, a conservative technology, doesn’t
understand what taboos are, so it can’t break
them,” notes Cornell’s Guy Hoffman.
Not everyone is a naysayer. Tony Veale
at University College Dublin, who explains
that being (purposefully) funny requires the
cognitive ability to understand and attribute
mental states to oneself and others — what’s
known as theory of mind — thinks it’s
possible to evolve humor in something like
the ChatGPT model by programming it to
favor the incongruities and deviations from
established norms that are the hallmarks of
comedy. “A language model uses probability
16 M AY 31, 2023
The Report
Behind the Headlines
to guide its choices,” says Veale, the author
of Your Wit Is My Command: Building AIs With
a Sense of Humor. “You could adjust its prob-
ability controls, from the expected to the
unexpected, since the dominant theories of
humor have to do with taking ideas and sub-
verting them.”
Joe Toplyn, a former head writer for both
Jay Leno and David Letterman, has already
made his own punchline-producing bot,
Witscript, based on joke algorithms he’d
earlier developed, patented and taught at
the Peoples Improv Theatre in Manhattan.
“When it’s working at its best, it’s writing
jokes that are good enough to be used on a
late night comedy talk show, without any
editing,” he says. Toplyn, a WGA member
with a Harvard engineering degree who
recently picketed outside HBO’s Manhattan
office while holding a sign that read “Don’t
Let ChatGPT Write Yellowstone,” insists
the future is already here. He explains he
developed his beta software, which he demon-
strated to THR, to assist non-pros who can’t
write jokes, but thinks that if producers had
access to it, “they could cut costs” on writ-
ers. (As part of a February bit, Jimmy Kimmel
tried out AI-generated jokes, one of which
earned a smattering of genuine guffaws from
his audience.)
The commercial question, as ever, is qual-
ity. If brilliance is the business plan, then the
human humorist is secure. But if not, then
AI, even if it only achieves a bare minimum of
hilarity, may do just fine. “How mediocre are
you OK with your comedy being?” muses Piotr
Mirowski, a scientist employed by a machine-
learning firm who also co-founded an
AI-enabled improv company that incorporates
a chatbot into its performances. “It’s on us to
judge the outputs of AI with discernment.”
The consensus among these experts is that
AI, while a clear labor threat, will become a
baseline tool for comedy writers, like a thesau-
rus or a search engine. Diyi Yang at Stanford
notes that, in her own research, professional
stand-ups may not have found AI-generated
jokes funny. Yet they often were inspired
by the model’s strange, unconventional
verbal associations.
For his part, Jeff Schaffer, the noted comedy
writer (Curb Your Enthusiasm) and creator
(Dave), professes not to be concerned with AI’s
rise. “I don’t know a lot about AI, but I know a
little about people,” he says. “So far, AI is not
funny. And that is its most human quality —
because most people are not funny, either.”
Jackie Strause and Kirsten Chuba contributed
to this report.
ADOBE STOCK
 CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR FRIEND

JAMES WAN
ON BEING RECOGNIZED AS A
THR TITAN
WE’RE PROUD TO CALL HIM OUR FRIEND

Broadway Rebounding, Even Though
‘the Suburbs Have Not Come Back’
In its first season without major COVID-19 disruptions, attendance and
total grosses saw notable growth to near pre-pandemic levels CAITLIN HUSTON
I
n the 2022-23 season —
Broadway’s first full season
since the pandemic began —
the industry almost bounced back
to pre-COVID levels.
The total gross for the season
reached nearly $1.6 billion, which
is a marked improvement from
the previous two seasons but still
below the pre-pandemic total of
$1.8 billion in 2018-19, according
to new data from the Broadway
League. Attendance reached
12.3 million, above the previous
two years’ totals but also below
the 14.8 million in 2018-19, which
was the highest-grossing and
best attended season ever.
Total capacity reached
88.4 percent, largely in line with
pre-pandemic levels. This past
season was the first without major
disruptions from COVID-19 — in
contrast to the 2021-22 season,
which began later than the usual
May opening, with the first show
starting in August, followed by
a staggered rollout of shows
throughout the fall as the industry
got back on its feet after all the-
aters had been closed. However,
because of a surge in COVID-19
cases related to the omicron
variant, many productions were
forced to cancel performances or
close prematurely in December
and January. Sixteen of the sea-
son’s 42 weeks saw performance
cancellations, and the season
grossed just over $845 million,
with attendance at 6.7 million.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
The 2019-20 season was
infamously cut short by the
closure of all Broadway theaters
on March 12, 2020, and grossed
$1.4 billion, with attendance at
11.1 million. Theaters were still
closed during what would have
been the 2020-21 season.
The 2022-23 season saw the
entrance of several high-grossing
shows, such as the revival of
Sweeney Todd, starring Josh
Groban and Annaleigh Ashford, as
well as the closure of The Phantom
of the Opera, which brought in an
eye-popping $3.7 million in its
last week of performances after
35 years on Broadway. Other
big earners have included such
stalwarts as Hamilton and The
Lion King, along with brands like
MJ: The Musical. Original shows
continue to lag, as many audi-
ence members gravitate toward
known intellectual property
rather than new material since
the pandemic.
Grosses are down about 13 per-
cent from the record 2018-19
season but down only 7 percent
from the year before that. The
remaining gap is largely caused
by the reluctance of suburban
audiences to return — related
in part to the fact that many
suburbanites have not returned
to working in their city offices
during the week — as well as a
slower return of international
visitors, particularly from China,
per Mike Rafael, a ticketing sales
18
The Report
Behind the Headlines
One of Broadway’s high-grossing entries in the
2022-23 season is the revival of Sweeney Todd.
from no income during the
theatrical shutdown to $1.6 bil-
lion, says Ken Davenport, a
producer on the Neil Diamond
biomusical A Beautiful Noise,
which opened this past season.
He notes, though, that the cost of
productions continues to increase
thanks to inflation, which means
that Broadway totals also need
to rise. “We need to continue to
grow the industry every year,” he
says. “We’re an industry whose
expenses increase dramatically
every year, and especially over the
last three.”
As a greater portion of the
consultant on Wicked and the new international audience returns,
musical Kimberly Akimbo. and audiences get back into the
“Some of the international has habit of going to the theater (with
come back, groups have come concerns about COVID-19 safety
back,” Rafael says. “The suburbs now largely gone), there’s belief
have not come back. And that’s that the industry will be able to
the big item for me.” make a full rebound next season.
The numbers show “unbeliev- Says Davenport, “It will get better
able progress” for the industry, and better, and we’ll hit $2 billion
considering how quickly it went soon enough.”
A Promising Box Office Trend
Theater grosses are swinging back in the first full season since the
pandemic began, down just 14 percent from the highest season on record
NUMBER OF NEW SHOWS TOTAL GROSS CAPACITY
88% 82% 91% 90% 89%
$1.8B
$1.7B
$1.6B
$1.5B $1.4B
Total capacity
for the 2022-23
season reached
88.4 percent,
1B which was largely
$845.4M
in line with pre-
pandemic levels.
500M
40 39 33 38 33
EVAN ZIMMERMAN
2022-23 2021-22 2019-20 2018-19 2017-18
Source: The Broadway League. Theaters were closed during what would have been the 2020-21 season.
M AY 31, 2023
 The Report
Emmys 2023
Brian Cox (center) as Logan Roy in Succession, flanked by the show’s competition for best drama:
Yellowjackets, Better Call Saul, The Crown and The Last of Us.
The Succession Effect: Do Other
Dramas Stand a Chance?
The muted Emmy campaigns and strategic submissions of its competitors
suggest that HBO/Max’s hit, which aired its final episode on May 28, will take home the
top prize — while also shaking up the lead actor and actress races BY TYLER COATES
A
wards strategists manag-
ing this season’s Emmy
campaigns may have
issued a collective gasp on the
night of April 9 — at least those
who were watching the third epi-
sode of Succession live as it aired
that evening. With little warn-
ing, and off-camera, Logan Roy
(played by Emmy winner Brian
Cox, twice nominated for his
role in the HBO drama) collapsed
while traveling on a plane — leav-
ing his children Kendall (Jeremy
Strong), Shiv (Sarah Snook) and
Roman (Kieran Culkin), trapped
on a boat for their half-brother
Connor’s wedding, struggling to
come to terms with his sudden
death and what it meant for the
future of Waystar Royco.
Logan Roy, dead in episode
three! A tragedy for some (and
one that was inevitable given the
entire premise of the series), but
for those with stakes in the Emmy
race, it raised questions of how
Cox would be submitted for his
role in the fourth season — and
was the latest twist relating to
one of the strongest frontrunners
in the drama categories.
Creator and showrunner Jesse
Armstrong dropped the first
bomb in a Feb. 23 New Yorker
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
THE RACE
profile, a month ahead of the sea-
son four premiere. He admitted
to struggling with the decision
to announce that season four
would be Succession’s last — he
toyed with the idea of not saying
anything at all, instead letting
the show come to a natural con-
clusion without giving its fans a
heads up. “Hopefully, the show is
against bullshit, and I wouldn’t
like to be bullshitting anyone
when I was talking about it,” said
Armstrong, acknowledging that
the cast and creatives would do
press throughout the season and
“it might be weird” to boldly avoid
the truth. (The May 2 writers
strike meant that Armstrong
would not be able to promote the
show in interviews throughout
the remainder of the season.)
What did that mean for the
show’s competition for best
The shocking events in Succession’s
third episode of season four raised questions
about the Emmys race.
20
drama series? With House of the
Dragon, The Last of Us and The
White Lotus in the mix (the last,
which won best limited/anthology
series in 2022, is now considered
a drama), HBO may be the best
represented in the category with
its four strong contenders.
Their leading competitors
include Netflix’s The Crown
(whose fourth season earned the
streamer its first drama series
win in 2021), AMC’s Better Call
Saul (the always-a-bridesmaid
show, which wrapped the sec-
ond half of its final season last
summer, has been nominated
for 46 Emmys without winning
a single trophy), Disney+’s The
Mandalorian (twice nominated
for best drama) and Showtime’s
Yellowjackets (which earned a
series nom last year for its debut
season). While those shows are
no doubt dramas, many of which
have previously earned noms in
the category, the behemoth that
is Succession may have scared off
other networks when it came to
submitting their new shows for
Emmy consideration.
Peacock’s Poker Face, an irrever-
ent hourlong procedural starring
Natasha Lyonne as a Columbo-
style sleuth (albeit an amateur), is
M AY 31, 2023
competing as a comedy. Another
of the streamer’s new series,
the Tara Hernandez and Damon
Lindelof-created Mrs. Davis —
starring Betty Gilpin as a nun
battling artificial intelligence —
was submitted as a limited series
just before the May 9 deadline.
(Is that a PR-friendly way of
announcing a series cancellation
while making the show a more
competitive player outside of the
drama categories? Mrs. Davis may
be a worthy opponent to AI, but
possibly not to Succession.)
Netflix, too, is reserving its
campaign muscle for season
six of The Crown, which hits the
streamer later this year. With
Succession out of the running
next year, expect Netflix to go
hard in its Emmy campaigning
for the final season of the Peter
Morgan-created show about
the dramas within the British
monarchy. Those dramas will
prove particularly explosive as
the upcoming episodes grapple
with the death of Princess Diana
(Elizabeth Debicki). After all,
The Crown won its Emmy for
best drama the year Succession
was out of the running due to its
pandemic-induced hiatus.
Now, back to Logan’s death:
Some awards pundits wondered
if Cox’s limited screentime in the
season would mean he’d be placed
in the supporting actor category
— Cox himself told Vulture that
YELLOWJACKETS: KAILY SCHWERMAN/SHOWTIME. SUCCESSION, US: COURTESY OF HBO (3). SAUL: GREG LEWIS/AMC/SONY PICTURES TELEVISION. CROWN: KEITH BERNSTEIN/NETFLIX.
he would appear in flashbacks
later in the season, but direc-
tor Mark Mylod told Variety that
those scenes were shot as “a mis-
direct” and “didn’t actually exist.”
A supporting actor submission
would clear the way for Cox’s co-
stars Strong (who won best actor
in 2020) and Culkin (who previ-
ously was nominated twice in the
supporting category, but who —
alongside Snook — was bumped
up to lead this season), or possibly
help a non-Succession actor take
the prize.
Cox ultimately chose to submit
himself in the lead category —
and in a BBC interview bemoaned
feeling “a little bit rejected” after
Logan’s unceremonious death.
We may now see a showdown
between him and two of his
onscreen sons. An Emmy power
grab? Life, it seems, does imi-
tate Succession.
 The Report

7 Days of DEALS
Who’s inking on the dotted line this week

W W E-U FC MEGA-MERGER: Rights

‘NOW IT’S TIME TO MONETIZE’
W ITH NEW T V DEALS
The show never stops. Following the April 3 unveil-
Deal ing of the WWE’s megamerger with Endeavor’s
of the UFC — a deal expected to close in the second half
Week of this year — Wall Street’s focus is turning to the
combined sports entertainment powerhouse’s new
U.S. media rights deals, starting with the WWE.
The Ari Emanuel-run Endeavor will hold a 51 per-
cent controlling interest in the merged UFC-WWE,
said to be called TKO Group Holdings, with existing
Emanuel WWE shareholders owning the other 49 percent.
(The deal puts a value of $12.1 billion on the UFC and
$9.3 billion on the WWE.)
With WWE media talks in progress, manage-
ment has been highlighting its ratings performance
in the challenged linear TV space and its appeal to
Kahn consumers as a live-events juggernaut. For example,
WWE shows have been breaking attendance records
over the past six months in more than 55 cities
around the world, the company notes. January’s
Royal Rumble in San Antonio set a gate record of
more than $7.7 million, surpassing the previous
2017 high for the event by more than 50 percent.
And with 161,892 in attendance over two nights,
Available!
Hot new
podcasts with
Khan argued that healthy gains are warranted Hollywood
given the WWE’s success on various media plat-
forms and how its brand fits with the strategic
appeal BY J. CLARA CHAN
priorities of its current partners.
“We think our product has over-delivered on
USA,” he said, pointing out that the 18-49 demo
ratings on the NBCU channel for Raw, the WWE’s
flagship show, are “three times the No. 2 show there
… we think we have over-delivered with our other
partners, and now it’s time to monetize it properly.”
Meanwhile, WWE’s SmackDown fits in “quite
well” with Fox’s focus on sports and live program-
ming, the CEO suggested. Analysts also expect an
upside in new media rights deals, given that the
WWE costs less than other sports leagues. In a
Bad Seeds
May 3 report, Baker cited annual average rights fees PRODUCED BY
paid per regular season viewer hour of 91 cents for iHeartMedia
Raw and 88 cents for SmackDown, behind $1.45 for AGENCY UTA
the MLB on Fox. His conclusion: “WWE offers the Forget drugs; have
best value to audience delivery relationship among you heard about the
professional sports by a wide margin.” — GEORG SZALAI black market for rare
plants? Plant expert
U.S. TV Rights Contracts Forecast Summer Rayne Oakes

EMANUEL: STEFANIE KEENAN/GETTY IMAGES FOR THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER. KHAN: COURTESY OF WWE. LASSO: COLIN HUTTON/APPLE TV+. SEEDS: COURTESY OF IHEARTMEDIA. DEEP: COURTESY OF PUSHKIN.
WrestleMania 39 at SoFi Stadium in L.A. registered With domestic media rights deals for the WWE and takes listeners into the
a gate of more than $21.6 million, exceeding the UFC (at ESPN) ending in 2024 and ’25, respectively, underground world
previous record by 27 percent. Guggenheim sees a revenue spike coming of endangered and
On TV with the WWE, “we are just out of the WWE UFC otherwise sought-after
exclusive window with Fox; we are still in the plant species, complete
window with NBCU,” CEO Nick Khan told a J.P. $800M with cartels and corrupt
Morgan investor conference May 23 about the state $754M government officials.
of talks with its existing media partners, noting $600M
that rights aren’t up until October 2024. Five years $511M $528M $557M
$486M $501M
ago, the WWE reached “an almost four times jump”
$400M
in rights fees, Khan said, adding, “We are certainly
not expecting anything like that here, but we are
expecting something great.” Guggenheim analyst $200M
Curry Baker estimates WWE’s next distribution
deals could record increases of 1.8 times their aver-
2023 2024 2025
age annual value, a notable jump. Source: Nielsen and Guggenheim estimates

Deep Cover:
Inside Never Seen
View Ted Lasso Brings Its A-Game Again
APPLE TV+, 29 Episodes 795M Minutes viewed PRODUCED BY
Pushkin Industries
The third (and potentially final) season of the Emmy-winning AGENCY WME
Apple TV+ comedy is enjoying its best run to date. Ted Lasso Pulitzer Prize-winning
recorded series highs in Nielsen’s streaming rankings in journalist Jake Halpern
three of seven weeks since season three premiered, topping leads an investiga-
out at 795 million minutes of viewing for the week its seventh tion into a woman who
episode debuted. Though Nielsen counts all episodes of a steals the identity of
show toward its viewing time totals, with weekly releases, half a missing person and
or more of the total comes from the new episode. Given the winds up as a student
possibility that the series is ending, it’s likely viewing will keep at Columbia University.
building into the finale. — RICK PORTER As investigators begin
hunting her down, she
goes on the run.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 22 M AY 31, 2023

Congratulations to all of this year’s
Forces of Change, including our clients

Eva Longoria and

James Wan

We are thrilled to join

The Hollywood Reporter
and recognize inspiring voices
advocating for diversity, equity,
inclusion, and accessibility in the
entertainment industry.

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 ®
STARZ PROUDLY CONGRATULATES

KATHRYN BUSBY
THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER
50 FORCES FOR CHANGE

President, Original Programming

STARZ and related channels and service marks are the property of Starz Entertainment, LLC. All rights reserved.
 About Town
N E X T BIG T HIN G

Teo Yoo
The actor explains why
he wasn’t allowed to so
much as hug his co-star
during rehearsals for
A24’s Past Lives By Seija Rankin

eo Yoo is waiting for

T someone to tell him

this is all a dream.
The actor stars in Past
Lives, the feature debut from
playwright-director Celine Song
that took Sundance by storm, and
as the ethereal romance nears its
June 2 release, he’s feeling ever
more amazed that this is, in fact,
real life. “Every day I try to pinch
myself,” Yoo tells THR over Zoom
from his home base in Seoul.
Past Lives follows two childhood
friends — played by Yoo and Greta
Lee (The Morning Show) — who
grew up in Seoul and reconnect
after decades. Lee’s character has
moved to New York, where she’s
married to a fellow writer and
has begun to feel a pull to the life
she left behind; Yoo’s Hae Sung is
curious about what became of her.
It’s part love triangle, part explora-
tion of fate — the film relies on
the Korean concept of inyeon, a
reincarnation-esque idea about
how we end up in one another’s
lives. “If you believe that your life
is linear, that you just pass away
after you die, this movie can be
sad,” Yoo explains. “But if you
believe that even if something isn’t
in your inyeon in this lifetime but
it could be in the next life, then it’s
more bittersweet and comforting.”
Yoo, who was raised in
Germany and studied in New York
and London, explains what went
into making the film.
YOO: COURTESY OF CJES ENTERTAINMENT.

“What can I even say?

I’m just bracing for
someone to slap me Your character is quite different
and wake me up,” says from you biographically. What ele-
Teo Yoo about the
positive reception to ments did you connect to?
Past Lives. He also
appeared in Park I’ve had a feeling of displacement
Chan-wook’s 2022 film for a long time. I was born and
Decision to Leave.
raised abroad — I’m basically the

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 25 M AY 31, 2023

 About Town
People, Places,
Preoccupations
only German-Korean actor work-
ing internationally, and from a
Western perspective, I’m a Korean
actor, but Koreans don’t perceive
me that way. It’s given me an
underlying current of sadness
and melancholy, which I think
Hae Sung has. I could understand
feeling like there are forces in
your life that you can’t change.
How did you create the chemistry
with Greta Lee to play old friends
who have been sort of unknow-
ingly longing for each other?
During rehearsal, Celine never
wanted Greta and I to touch. I’d go
in for a hug or to shake her hand,
and she would say, “No, save it
for the screen.” So when you see
us meet in New York for the first
time in 24 years, that’s actually
the first time we ever touched, so
we yearned for each other.
Lee and Yoo
in a scene
from A24’s
Past Lives.
Does any moment from filming
stand out to you?
When we shot one of the final
scenes, there was a moment
when all of us were sitting out-
side in our chairs on 8th Street
[in New York]. We were all just
remembering our days of strug-
gling to become actors 15, 20
years back. I used to live on the
corner of Avenue C and 7th Street,
working two jobs while going
to school and dreaming about
this day. Celine kept encourag-
ing us to go back to our trailers
and rest, but I didn’t want to
miss that moment. We were
the leads of an A24 film! People
passing by would ask us what we
were filming, and I like to joke,
“It’s Minari 2.’ ”
Interview edited for length
and clarity.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
Hollywood Tackles Aging
No, not anti-aging, but ageist narratives portrayed onscreen, which
community hub GenSpace, founded by Wallis Annenberg, is combating:
‘We want stories centered on this population’ By Evan Nicole Brown
acks. Abbott Elementary. Grace and
H Frankie. Curb Your Enthusiasm. The lion’s
share of Nancy Meyers’ films. All popular,
all featuring characters advanced in age.
In the conversation about diverse representa-
tion in media, the importance of seeing older
adults onscreen (technically defined as over
age 65) has historically gone largely ignored.
This, of course, is a reflection of how seniors are
overlooked in society. But philanthropist Wallis
Annenberg’s GenSpace — a 7,000-square-foot
senior center in L.A.’s Koreatown,
and the site of THR’s Raising Our
Voices gala on May 31 — is working
to change that.
Annenberg In addition to its daily fitness, well-
ness, and arts and crafts classes, the
community center hosts such events as a January
luncheon with the cast of 80 for Brady and its
producer Donna Gigliotti. The occasion featured
a panel — designed to change the narrative of
how people talk about older adults — with the
film’s stars Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin, Sally Field
and Billy Porter and was attended by Hollywood
executives, writers and GenSpace members.
“We want stories centered on this population,
being made by this population and, statistically,
being watched far outside this population,” says
Gigliotti. “It’s good for business, but it’s also good
for society at large.” Nuanced portrayals of seniors
onscreen — which ditch stereotypes like the weak
or grumpy homebound character — also can help
combat ageism. “That’s just not accurate or good
storytelling,” Gigliotti says, noting an American
Psychological Association study that shows that
negative thinking about aging can shorten a per-
son’s life span by seven and a half years.
At the 80 for Brady luncheon, Fonda sounded a
hopeful note about entertainment-industry trends
in representation: “Older women [are] the fastest-
growing demographic in the world. It’s a business,
and if they want to meet the market, they’re going
to have to start writing television shows about
26 M AY 31, 2023
GenSpace is located on the third floor of the Audrey Irmas
Pavilion in Koreatown, designed by architecture firm OMA and
opened in 2022 adjacent to Wilshire Boulevard Temple.
older women. And they’re doing that.”
At GenSpace, which opened in April 2022, the
average age of members (who pay a reasonable
$10 a month) hovers around 72. Currently, the
center has about 180 members who participate in
three classes a week on average. Fitness classes
include dance aerobics, belly dancing and tai chi,
and there’s also a volunteer-led smartphone class,
a horticultural therapy program and a choir.
Annenberg was inspired to open GenSpace by
the surgeon general’s warning that loneliness and
social isolation are an epidemic and a major health
risk among older adults. The welcoming space,
located in a diverse neighborhood served by
public transportation, was created in consultation
with the Stanford Center on Longevity and USC’s
Leonard Davis School of Gerontology.
“We all will — if we’re lucky — continue to age.
Too often, aging is portrayed as a decline, when
in fact it can be an expansion into a deeper, more
PAST: COURTESY OF A24. GENSPACE: JASON O’REAR. WALLIS: COURTESY OF GENSPACE. FONDA: ROBIN L MARSHALL/FILMMAGIC. CLASS: PHILIP PATINO.
joyful way of living,” Annenberg says. “I’ve found
it to be a time of vitality and invention, a time to
spark new passion, new friendships, new projects
— but it requires community and connection.”
Above: A fitness
class at GenSpace,
which has sliding-
scale membership
options. From
left: Lily Tomlin,
Jane Fonda and
Sally Field at the
community center.
 CONGRATULATIONS

ON THIS AUSPICIOUS HONOR!

FONDLY,

JEFF, LESLEY, YOLANDA,

LOURDES, MICHAEL, DAVID
AND THE ENTIRE GANG AT WWM
 About Town

Yes, I Did Say That! Quotes

A look at who’s saying what in entertainment

Compiled by Mikey O’Connell

“The beginning
“An expansive idea of the downfall
of self that we could of society.”
WHOOPI GOLDBERG
all learn from.” The View moderator, during the
May 26 episode, blaming American
GRETA GERWIG Idol for the decline in social
The filmmaker, in Vogue, waxing philosophical about Barbie discourse: “Once we gave people
after an inspiring tour of the Mattel offices as she set out to the ability to judge other people, I
pen the script for July’s movie named after the doll. think we ran amok.”

“When my wife read

“They wouldn’t me the article,
be around if I looked at her and

GERWIG: GILBERT FLORES/VARIETY VIA GETTY IMAGES. KENNEDY: JEFF SPICER/GETTY IMAGES FOR DISNEY. BAILEY: LISA MAREE WILLIAMS/GETTY IMAGES. HASTINGS: STEPHANE CARDINALE/CORBIS/CORBIS VIA GETTY IMAGES. OBAMA: STEFFI LOOS/GETTY IMAGES.
“He’s a very good it weren’t said, ‘I think we’re
person. He just for writers.” about to have
has an issue BARACK OBAMA the biggest show of
with women.” The producer
the summer.’ ”
(and former president),
JANE FONDA
during a conversation with SAM LEVINSON
The actress, appearing at Cannes,
Ira Glass, voicing sympathy The showrunner, during a
discussing Robert Redford — her
for “embattled” Hollywood Cannes panel, implying that a
co-star in four films — whom she studios but ultimately
described as “always in a bad mood.” Rolling Stone piece alleging “toxic”
expressing his support of behavior on the set of upcoming
the WGA in the ongoing HBO drama The Idol will actually
dispute between the two. serve it well. (Levinson and company
have denied the allegations.)

“We just wouldn’t “So many people “It does a lot for
do that.” in the indie film your self-worth
KATHLEEN KENNEDY world were really and confidence.”
The Lucasfilm president, to pissed off at me.” HALLE BAILEY
Entertainment Weekly, insisting that FLORENCE PUGH The Little Mermaid star, in The
Harrison Ford will not be replaced The actress, in Time, claiming New York Times, reacting to the fact
as Indiana Jones — though the that she noticed a backlash that there is now a doll bearing her
franchise will likely live on after his when she signed on to do the likeness — after growing up without
fifth and final film in the role. Marvel movie Black Widow. dolls that looked like her.

FLASHBACK! JAN. 6, 2016

Did I “We love people sharing Netflix.

Really That’s a positive thing, not a negative thing.”
REED HASTINGS
Say The Netflix chairman (then CEO) echoed the company’s laissez-faire attitude about
password-sharing at CES. On May 23, after more than 15 years of streaming, the company
That? finally cracked down on the practice of multiple users logging in to the same account.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 28 M AY 31, 2023

 About Town
From left: Asteroid City castmembers
Tom Hanks, Scarlett Johansson and
Jason Schwartzman and the film’s director, Heard Around Hollywood
Wes Anderson, arrived by bus at the Palais.

the rounds, turning up at bashes

including Apple’s Killers cocktail
party, where the Oscar-winning
Power
actor, uncharacteristically, Dining
chatted up a slew of journalists. Janelle Monáe and
Another VIP was presumably Monáe Christina Milian
sleeping: “[De Niro’s] baby came to celebrated Karrueche
Tran’s birthday at E.
Cannes,” revealed an insider. Baldi. … Larry David
shared a meal with
Rachel Brosnahan on Starring daughter Cazzie
Opposite Oscar Isaac in David at Farmshop. …
Tony-Nominated Play Constance Zimmer
broke bread at Lingua
“Over the moon” is how Rachel
Rambling Reporter Brosnahan felt in April. That’s
when she learned that Lorraine
Franca. … Buying
Beverly Hills star and
The Agency CEO
By Chris Gardner Mauricio Umansky
Hansberry’s The Sign in Sidney
Brustein’s Window — in which dined at Il Pastaio. …
In New York, Conan
All the Details on Wes Anderson’s ‘Quirky’ Cannes Protocols she starred opposite Oscar Isaac O’Brien paid a visit
The mega cast of Wes Anderson’s Asteroid City — including Tom Hanks, at BAM — was moving to the to Asset. … Kristen
Scarlett Johansson and Margot Robbie — landed on the Cannes red car- James Earl Jones Theatre, where Bell, D’Arcy Carden
pet May 23 by mega bus, which has become something of a tradition for it quickly scooped up a Tony nom and William Jackson
the Paris-based filmmaker. Anderson, known to prefer that his collabo- for best play revival. Speaking Harper had a The Good
Place reunion at Emily.
rators hit the Palais together, last relied on a bus for The French Dispatch of Isaac, Brosnahan says she’s … Taylor Swift took a
at Cannes in 2021. It’s not Anderson’s only “quirky” Cannes protocol, per inspired by her co-star’s drive: break from her Eras
sources. Rather than opt for a hotel like the Carlton, Anderson and crew “He’s relentlessly and unapolo- tour with a night out at
stay at his favorite hideaway during the fest, an hour outside of Cannes. getically curious, and I feel like Zero Bond. … Haley Lu
The sources added that the Asteroid cast first went by bus to an hours- it makes him keep pushing Richardson stopped by
Planta Queen.
long pit stop at the JW Marriott for glam. Also, the Anderson way is to himself to find new shades to
limit guests to plus-ones, so nobody arrives with a huge entourage. “It’s this character. It’s been dreamy
HOT NEW
like his films,” one source explained. “The cast stays at the same place, to get to do that dance with him RESTAURANT
they have dinners together, it’s very family-oriented.” every night.”

BROSNAHAN: JAMIE MCCARTHY/GETTY IMAGES. MENZIES: DIMITRIOS KAMBOURIS/GETTY IMAGES. MONÁE: MIKE COPPOLA/GETTY IMAGES. DAVID: KEVORK DJANSEZIAN/GETTY IMAGES. MON AMI: WONHO FRANK LEE.
BUS: ADOBE STOCK. STAIRS: KRISTY SPAROW/GETTY IMAGES. ANDERSON: ANTONIN THUILLIER/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES. DICAPRIO: ARNOLD JEROCKI/GETTY IMAGES FOR AIR MAIL/WARNER BROTHERS DISCOVERY.
How DiCaprio and De Niro
Party-Hopped in Cannes
When Robert De Niro dropped
the news that he had welcomed
a seventh child (with girlfriend
Tiffany Chen), some questioned
whether he would hit the Cannes
red carpet to help Martin Scorsese Martin Scorsese (left) and Leonardo Oscar
Isaac and Mon Ami
DiCaprio (who’s rarely seen in party photos)
and Leonardo DiCaprio launch at the WBD and Air Mail bash May 23. Rachel The Quick Pitch
their new epic Killers of the Flower Brosnahan A hidden gem just off
Moon. Not only did he turn up, he between dessert bites, he mingled of the Santa Monica
Pier, Mon Ami is a
turned out on the festival party with everyone from Sam Levinson new escape to the
circuit with Chen. THR spotted to Jeremy O. Harris. The couple Mediterranean from
the pair arriving to Vanity Fair and also hit up the Warner Bros. Nas Negahban of
Prada’s joint bash at Hotel du Cap- Discovery and Air Mail party at the Pacific Hospitality
Eden-Roc after 1 a.m., where, in iconic hotel. DiCaprio also made Group and chefs Samir
Mohajer and Sabel
Braganza. The sup-
per club’s immersive,
versatile menu includes
Calabrian chili prawns,
chicken tagine, a pan-
After premiering at Sundance this year, You Hurt My seared Mediterranean
Red Carpet Feelings took New York on May 22 as writer-director sea bass with
Nicole Holofcener and stars Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Tobias Menzies, Michaela Castelvetrano olives
Watkins, Amber Tamblyn, David Cross, Arian Moayed, Owen Teague and Jeannie tapenade, and louk-
Berlin brought their A24 comedy to a special screening. The film follows a novelist oumades — Greek
(Louis-Dreyfus) who overhears her husband (Menzies) admitting that he hates her doughnuts served with
new book, a premise that when Louis-Dreyfus first heard it, she thought, “Oh bam, honey and cardamon
that is huge.” She told THR, “As a creative person, the idea that somebody would lie chantilly cream. 1541
From left: Arian Moayed, Michaela Watkins,
Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Tobias Menzies at the to you on such a fundamental level about something so personal — that spoke to me. Ocean Ave., Suite 150
May 22 event in New York City. That was more interesting to me than an infidelity, for example.” — HILARY LEWIS — EVAN NICOLE BROWN

Got tips? Email rambling@thr.com

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 30 M AY 31, 2023

 O

T T

F
F

sP clo

s
 About Town

2 Mileposts

1939-2023
Tina Turner
Actress Gloria Reuben
recalls being a backup
singer for Turner’s 24/7
world tour in 2000:
‘She was a beaming light’

wore a fringe dress in

I honor of her the night
we first met. She had
3 just blown the roof off with
an electrifying perfor-
mance, and my heart was
leaping out of my chest
as I was being escorted
to her dressing room for
a quick meet-and-greet.
There she was: pure energy
and joy. She said to me in
1 that wonderfully up-front,
direct and bright-eyed way
of hers: “You’re so pretty!
Can you sing and dance?”

Hitched, Hatched, Hired Barely a beat went by when

I replied,
“Yes, I can!”
Inside the industry’s celebrations and news
And she
hit the ball
Weddings 1 Natalie Elementary and The Shelly Johnson of art house cin- back into
Moran and Reuben my court by
Natalie Moran, Mike Farah Kominsky Method, was elected 47th emas, on May 23.
2 Piper and saying, “You
motion picture tal- welcomed Gemma Fay president of the should come on tour with
Lennan
ent agent at CAA, Tolman Cavanaugh on Dec. 23 American Society of Deaths me next year!” Of course
3 Kenneth
married Mike Farah, Anger at Cedars-Sinai. Cinematographers, Kenneth Anger, my answer was, “OK!”
CEO of Funny Or Die, succeeding Stephen the avant-garde Three months later, I sang
on May 20 in Mexico Courtney Young, Lighthill, on May 22. filmmaker whose and danced for Tina Turner
in her hotel room. I left with
in the foothills director of originals surrealistic queer the gig and became her
of the Volcán de publicity at Hulu, compositions backup singer for the North
Colima, in a cer- and Jason Tolman, Fireworks and Scorpio American and Canadian leg
emony performed consumer insights Rising made him a of her 24/7 world tour in
by the Rev. Jeremy of film at Netflix, pioneer of under- 2000. She was a beam-
ing light. I am so deeply
Zipple. They relaxed welcomed twin ground cinema and a grateful to have known

FARAH: KURT BOOMER. CAVANAUGH, TOLMAN: COURTESY OF SUBJECT. ANGER: ESTATE OF EDMUND TESKE/GETTY IMAGES. WEIR: COURTESY OF SHOWTIME/MTVE
on the beaches of daughters Piper and target for censorship, her and spent time in her
Manzanillo follow- Lennan Tolman on died May 11 in Yucca presence, singing onstage

STUDIOS & PARAMOUNT MEDIA NETWORKS. TURNER: WALT DISNEY/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. REUBEN: DIMITRIOS KAMBOURIS/GETTY IMAGES.
Weir
ing a celebration March 15 at Cedars- Valley, California. with her. Tina’s incredibly
filled with family, Sinai Medical Center. Laurel Weir, execu- He was 96. generous spirit, support
and belief in me opened
friends and “interna- tive vp and head of the door for my soul to find
tional logistics.” Congrats programming and Bill Lee, a jazz its way again.
Former AMC co- strategic insights musician who accom-
heads of scripted and research at panied Bob Dylan
Emma Miller and MTV Entertainment and Harry Belafonte
Carrie Gillogly respec- Studios and and scored four of
tively joined Netflix Paramount Media his son Spike’s early
as director of overall Networks, added films, died May 24 in
deals and series, U.S. Showtime to her pur- Brooklyn. He was 94.
Gemma Fay Cavanaugh and Canada, and view May 23 after the
director of drama exit of Showtime exec Samantha Weinstein,
Births series, U.S. and vp Kim Lemon. a Canadian actress
Rebecca Brakeman, Canada, on May 25. who played Heather
a partner at McKuin Fatima Djoumer in the 2013 remake of
Frankel Whitehead, Kari Patey was named was tapped as the Carrie, died May 14 in
and Ross Cavanaugh, vp producer develop- new CEO of Europa Toronto after a battle
a post producer on ment at CBS Stations Cinema, the pan- with ovarian cancer.
Tina Turner died May 24 after
such shows as Abbott on May 24. European association She was 28. a long illness. She was 83.

To submit, send email to hhh@thr.com

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 32 M AY 31, 2023

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 Allen’s
hummingbird
Hooded
oriole
Birding Is Hollywood’s New Form of Meditation
‘You’re forced to pay attention,’ says one industry birder of the once stodgy-seeming activity that is taking off, fueled by a pandemic-born
interest in slowing down and apps that make it easier to find ‘grail birds’ as L.A. rains increase populations By Hadley Meares
I
was at the premiere of
The Little Mermaid a couple
of weeks back,” says Kean
Almryde, a marketing manager at
Disney. “Scuttle, the bird in the
cartoon version, was a seagull.
In the new movie, it’s a north-
ern gannet. I’m like, ‘What’s
that about?’ So I did a little bit of
research. I made a TikTok video
explaining the decision behind
changing Scuttle from a seagull
to the northern gannet that
ended up going viral! It has like
420,000 views.”
The reason for the change?
Animators wanted more under-
water scenes, and unlike the
air-bound seagull, a northern
gannet can dive around 70 feet
underwater. This research dove-
tailed perfectly with Almryde’s
passion for birding, which was
sparked during the pandemic and
he says provides a respite from
the hustle and bustle of the city.
“You’re forced to slow down,” he
says. “You’re forced to listen, pay
attention to your surroundings a
little bit more closely.”
These moments of clarity and
contemplation are one of the
reasons birding is an increasingly
popular activity in Los Angeles,
reportedly counting celebri-
ties including Daryl Hannah and
Cameron Diaz among its fans.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
Style Passions
Belted
kingfisher
“They’re survivors,” says birder
Kevin Mullican, director of tech-
nology at VR and AR technology
studio Magnopus, explaining his
fascination. “They are essentially
the descendants of the dinosaurs,
and somehow they made it.”
Comedian Tig Notaro, a casual
bird-watcher, does most of her
watching from home. In an effort
to attract birds — especially hum-
mingbirds, her favorite — Notaro
and her wife, actress Stephanie
Allynne, have surrounded their
house with feeders
and birdhouses. “I’m
amused by the fact
that they just move
Notaro into birdhouses,”
says Notaro. “That’s
really amusing to me.”
On many mornings, after drop-
ping their children off at school,
Notaro makes a point to sit
outside and eat breakfast among
the birds. “We have a back patio
upstairs that we let our cats out
on so they can safely be outside
and bird-watch as well.”
For Notaro, birds make her
think of freedom. “It just really
blows my mind,” she says. “That’s
what I think about whenever I
look at them.”
For actor Ian Harding, birds
have been a passion since child-
hood. His 2017 memoir is even
36
Cactus
wren
Snowy
plover
named Odd Birds and centers on
his love of birds. He credits bird-
watching with saving his sanity
when his starring role on Pretty
Little Liars turned him into a
heartthrob to teens everywhere.
“I knew people looked at me
differently or I was viewed dif-
ferently, but I didn’t feel any
different. And that sort of tension
can be very unmooring,” Harding
says. “Looking at birds, these
things that truly don’t give a shit
about your career and sometimes
defecate on all of your belongings,
had a weird, roundabout way of
keeping me grounded.”
He also found that it is an
excellent way to sort out poten-
tial friends at industry events.
“It’s an awesome litmus test,” he
says. “If someone is like, ‘What
are you working on?’ And I say,
‘Actually, I’m really into birding
Red-crowned
parrot
Lilac-crowned
parrot
M AY 31, 2023
Black-necked
stilt
recently,’ and if they don’t imme-
diately walk away, then I think
I’m going to get to know you;
you’re cool.”
The past few water-drenched
months in Los Angeles also have
been a boon to the area’s bird
population. “The heavy rains this
past winter produced an abun-
dance of insects, flowers, fruits
and seeds,” says ornithologist
Sean Lyon, who leads customized
birding tours in L.A. “This abun-
dance of natural resources helps
to sustain birds. Some individu-
als and species may spend more
time in Los Angeles as a result of
this additional food.”
Los Angeles has long been
known as one of the best places
to bird in all of North America,
though, as “542 species have
been recorded in Los Angeles
County, which is more than any
Northern
pygmy owl
 Yellow-rumped
warbler
Heermann’s
gull
Lewis’s
woodpecker
California
quail
Loggerhead
shrike
Least Bell’s
vireo
other county in California,” says Everyone has their favorites
Alexander deBarros, who bills — including the ones pictured
himself as The Hollywood Birder — from the colorful (Steller’s
and hosts a YouTube channel jays, Lewis’s woodpeckers) and
that showcases local birds, set the cute (tiny bushtits) to the
in popular filming locations like non-native (such as an estimated
Bronson Canyon. 11 species of introduced par-
According to Lyon, while the rots). “The lazuli bunting is this
BIRDS: ADOBE STOCK (18). EXTRAORDINARY: NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC/JON KROLL. BUDDY: COURTESY
development of Los Angeles has beautiful bright blue bird that
OF BRAND. NOTARO: MONICA SCHIPPER/GETTY IMAGES. HARDING: STEVE GRANITZ/WIREIMAGE.
had countless negative impacts has this orange throat. That
on the environment, it also has was an L.A. grail bird for me,”
made it a magnet for bird species. says Carlton DeWoody, a graphic
The millions of trees planted on designer and branding expert
what originally were grasslands, who started an informal birding
along with the irrigation water club, Painted Feather, in 2022
brought to the once-parched land- that happens to include a number
scape, have drawn and sustained of composers.
birds from places as diverse DeWoody likes using the eBird
as Southeast Asia, Africa and app because “it aggregates the
South America. information of all the birders so
For birders without benefit of you can use that to see [the latest
a guide, there are popular apps updates on] where activity is hap-
like eBird and Merlin Bird ID pening.” When a snowy owl made
to help find and identify birds. a rare appearance in Cypress
Western
tanager
Red-
whiskered
bulbul
The Bird Buddy
feeder has
a camera to
capture pics of
visitors; $199,
mybirdbuddy.com
Peregrine
falcon
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 37
in Orange County late last year,
roosting atop a house, “People
found out about it through eBird
before it got picked up by the local
news,” says DeWoody.
There are countless places
to spot birds in L.A., with the
Malibu Lagoon, the Sepulveda
Basin Wildlife Preserve and
Griffith Park among the most
popular. Some birders also
enjoy walks hosted by groups like
the local Audubon Societies and
see it as a bonding experience.
Says Lyon, “It’s an extremely
vibrant, very diverse group of
people — people who will hop
on a boat and head out to the
Channel Islands to see oceanic
species or do hikes up into the
mountains at Chilao Flats to see
mountain species.”
The thrill of the chase is
what draws many. “As a kid that
grew up in the ’90s, I was a big
Pokémon player,” Harding says.
“You learned all the different
Pokémon. Now I just learn a
bunch of different birds, which
just happen to be real and not
digital monsters. It’s sort of the
adult version of Pokémon.”
For many, birding is a solo,
meditative activity, starting
early in the morn-
ing, when birds are
most active. “All
you have to do is
Harding listen carefully,”
says birder Sandi
Hemmerlein, a digital producer
for Public Media Group of
Southern California. “You’re not
only listening for birdcalls but
also the sound of leaves rustling,
wings flapping. Then in terms
of what you’re looking for, you’re
just looking for movement and
variations in color.”
There are also few barriers to
entry. “The great thing about
birding is you don’t really need
any equipment,” says Eric Kelly,
an L.A.-based photographer and
a birder. “You can go outside and
just do it.”
For pro and amateur bird-
watchers alike, it’s L.A.’s vast
population of birds that can make
every day a joy. “Being in that con-
stant process of discovery is really
exciting to me,” Hemmerlein says.
“The cliché is stop and smell the
roses, but for me, it’s slow down
and find the birds.”
M AY 31, 2023
Christian Cooper on an
episode of his new series
with a trained Harris’s hawk
in Palm Desert, California.
Central Park’s
Famed Birder
Stars on Nat Geo
T hrough a strange twist
of fate, I had become the
most famous birder in America,
which is not hard because who
the hell knows who birders
are in the first place,” says
Christian Cooper, of gaining
national attention in 2020 when
a white woman in Central Park
called the cops on him after he
asked her to leash her dog in
a protected wildlife area. It’s
an incident “I psychologically
moved on [from] three minutes
later,” he says. “Maybe it’s just
being Black in America, but you
develop a fairly thick skin.”
Cooper was in Central Park
that day to go birding. It’s a
lifelong passion that the NYC
Audubon board member will
soon share widely with the
world as the host of his own
National Geographic series,
Extraordinary Birder With
Christian Cooper, out June 17.
The gig came about after he
was approached by Nat Geo
senior vp development and pro-
duction Janet Han Vissering.
“She called and said, ‘I want to
do a birding show and I want
you to do it,’ ” says Cooper, who
in the ’90s worked as a writer
on Marvel and Star Trek comic
books, where he introduced
pioneering LGBTQ characters.
The six-episode series
follows Cooper to six areas
of the U.S., including Puerto
Rico and Palm Springs. In the
latter, he encounters ravens,
burrowing owls and the Costa’s
hummingbird, the second-
smallest hummingbird in the
world. He hopes the show
helps inspire people to come
together to preserve habitat on
this planet for birds. “We have
a crucial role,” he says. “As indi-
viduals, we can have an impact
on this.” — DEGEN PENER
 Style

Watches

2
1

Aqua,
Man 4
Navy has been replaced
as the hot color in status
watches with a range
5
of sea-inspired blues
By Laurie Brookins

1. Gucci
A dozen 18-karat gold bees subtly
move on the turquoise stone dial of the
G-Timeless Dancing Bees watch, which
also features a tourbillon; price upon
6
request, at Gucci, Place Vendôme, Paris

2. Czapek
Limited to 99 pieces, the textured blue
dial on the 38.5mm stainless-steel
Antarctique S Sashiko takes its cue
from Japanese embroidery; price upon
request, at Cellini Jewelers, New York
3. IWC
The Ingenieur Automatic 40 in steel
with an aqua dial is a chic, sporty
update of a 1970s watch designed by
the legendary Gerald Genta; $11,700,
at IWC Schaffhausen, Beverly Hills

4. Rolex
An ice-blue dial is housed in a 40mm
platinum case and Oyster bracelet on
the new Cosmograph Daytona; price
upon request, at Gearys Beverly Hills
5. Patek Philippe
A sunburst-pattern blue dial is offset by
a 42mm rose gold case on the automatic
Ref. #5905R with flyback chronograph
and annual calendar functions; $75,110,
at Gearys Beverly Hills
6. Omega
The new Seamaster Aqua Terra Shades
collection includes this sun-brushed
WATCHES: COURTESY OF BRAND (7). BACKGROUND: ADOBE STOCK.

Atlantic Blue dial on a Co-Axial Master

Chronometer, in steel; $6,300, at
Westime, Beverly Hills

7. Bulgari
Limited to 1,000 pieces, this Bulgari 7
Aluminum Capri Edition watch features
a shaded blue dial in a 40mm aluminum
case with a blue rubber bezel and
bracelet; $3,350, at Bulgari, Beverly Hills

38
50 years of opening
new doors.
We opened our doors in 1973 with a simple mission—to open new doors for Asian Americans
and help them connect to the mainstream. 50 years later, we’re still building bridges of opportunity
by promoting diversity and representation in Hollywood. As we look ahead, we’ll continue to help
filmmakers, storytellers and creators from all backgrounds raise their voices and reach further.
eastwestbank.com/50
With playfulness and subversive humor, multihyphenate powerhouse
Taika Waititi is redefining Native representation in projects like
Reservation Dogs and Next Goal Wins — and seems to be having
more fun in Hollywood than just about anyone else

BY REBECCA KEEGAN
PHOTOGRAPHED BY PAUL YEM
 Taika Waititi was
photographed April 26 at
Pier59 in New York City.
Styling by Jeanne Yang
Teddy Von Ranson shirt and
pants, Grenson boots.
Taika Waititi and Sterlin Harjo
have a routine they’ve done at
parties that kills. They perfected
it at Sundance in the early 2000s,
in a condo dance-off with two
Navajo guys. “Taika would strike
this Michael Jackson pose with
his hand pointing in the air and
unbutton the pearl button on his
shirt,” says Harjo, the Seminole-
Muskogee director with whom
Waititi would go on to co-create
the FX comedy series Reservation
Dogs in 2019. “And I was the
wind in his shirt.” The duo also
delivered a full-throated kara-
oke version of Queen’s “Under
Pressure,” for which they still
get requests.
Before he became a global act-
ing-writing-directing star with
an Oscar and a Marvel résumé,
Waititi, a Maori-Jewish film-
maker from New Zealand, found
community in the U.S. among
Native American filmmakers like
Harjo. “One of the things we all
connected on was our disdain
for how we appear onscreen in
white productions,” says Waititi.
“Indigenous characters, they’re
always stoic. They’re always the
people who talk to trees and
play flutes on mountaintops.
They’re never funny, they’re
never normal. Nerd has not been
a choice. Or dorky. Where are the
dorky Natives?”
It’s late April, and Waititi
is sprawled in a booth at The
Mulberry, a chic new bar in New
York’s SoHo neighborhood of
which he’s part owner, wearing
Vans sneakers that say “Rez Dogs” “People are so obsessed
with likes or leaving
on the heels, a “You Are on Native behind a legacy. Here’s
the thing: No one’s going
Land” baseball cap and chunky to remember us,” says
rings on most of his fingers. “I Waititi. “Let’s just live,
make some movies.”
went full Native for you,” he says.
In a few days, he’ll be at the Met
Gala in a silver satin floor-length cuddle,” he says. “There’s always greatest films of all time. No one six features, two of them Marvel
wrap coat draped with pearl someone who’s too drunk, telling knows his name. How the fuck movies — Thor: Ragnarok and
chains, on the arm of his wife, interesting stories.” do I expect to be remembered? So Thor: Love and Thunder — and
English pop star Rita Ora. Waititi has managed to pre- who cares? Let’s just live, make executive produced Reservation
Few people in Hollywood serve the showmanship and some movies. They’ll be obsolete Dogs as well as the TV shows What PREVIOUS SPREAD: SET DESIGN: CATHERINE PEARSON. GROOMING: MELISSA DEZARATE AT A-FRAME.

seem to be having more fun at silliness of his condo dance- and irrelevant in 15 or 20 years. We Do in the Shadows and Our Flag
the business of being famous off days, even as he has seen And so will I, and then I’ll die Means Death. In 2019, he became
than Waititi. He loves bars, so the stakes of his career raised. and someone else can do it. This only the second Indigenous
THIS SPREAD: GOAL: HILARY BRONWYN GAYLE/SEARCHLIGHT PICTURES (2).

he bought one. Growing up,
his mother worked in pubs in
Wellington, and after school he’d
go for a raspberry and lemonade
and sit at the counter doodling or
writing stories. “I associate places
like this with feeling creative or
just a good, warm — it’s like a
“I’m 47,” he says. “My God, take
the pressure off. People are so
obsessed with likes or leaving
behind a legacy, being remem-
bered. Here’s the thing: No one’s
going to remember us. What’s
the name of the director of
Casablanca? Arguably one of the
whole idea of chasing, chasing,
chasing this life. It’s like, do we
have to actually work this hard?
Maybe not.”
It seems important to point
out here that for the past 20
years, Waititi has been working
very, very hard. He has directed
person ever to win an Oscar, for
writing 2019’s Jojo Rabbit, the
provocative Holocaust comedy he
directed and starred in as Hitler
(the first Indigenous person to
win an Oscar was Buffy Sainte-
Marie in 1982; more on that on
page 92). From the beginning of

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 42 M AY 31, 2023

his filmmaking career, Waititi
has balanced his ambition by pok-
ing fun at it — at the 2004 Oscars,
when the camera cut to him as the
announcer named his nominated
short film, Two Cars, One Night, he
pretended to be asleep.
Waititi’s next film, Next Goal
Wins, a sports drama about the
American Samoan national foot-
ball team that Searchlight will
release Nov. 17, sees the director
returning to the type of under-
dog movies that established him,
like his 2016 adventure comedy
Hunt for the Wilderpeople, still
New Zealand’s highest-grossing
film. In Next Goal Wins, which
is based on a 2014 documentary
about Dutch American soccer
coach Thomas Rongen (Michael
Fassbender) trying to turn around
the losing team, Waititi is sub-
verting the cultural tropes that
have long annoyed him. A large
cast of Polynesian actors, includ-
ing Hunt for the Wilderpeople’s
Oscar Kightley and Young Rock’s
Uli Latukefu, gently aid a troubled
Rongen, as Kightley’s character
explains, “like finding a little lost
white kid at the mall and telling
him which way to go.”
“Taika’s always hung out with
this little Indigenous filmmaking
community that very few people
would pay attention to,” says
producer Bird Runningwater,
who programmed Two Cars, One
Night for the Sundance Institute’s
Native and Indigenous Program.
“Now that he’s broken into the
Marvels and the Searchlights, his
work is continuing to grow. But
Next Goal Wins, that’s him going
back to his roots of telling a small,
Indigenous story.”
Waititi has championed the
work of other Native storytell-
ers, executive producing and
directing his friend and Maori
comedian Jemaine Clement’s TV
adaptation of their 2014 What We
Do in the Shadows film; getting
Harjo’s Reservation Dogs, which
follows Indigenous teenagers in
rural Oklahoma, made under his
first-look deal at FX; and executive
producing director Billy Luther’s
Navajo reservation-set Frybread
Face and Me, which premiered at
South by Southwest in March. Piki
Films, a New Zealand production
company Waititi co-founded with
his Hunt for the Wilderpeople and
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
Jojo Rabbit producer Carthew Neal,
backs work by other Maori and
Pasifika filmmakers, including
2023’s Red, White & Brass, a com-
edy directed by Damon Fepulea’i,
and the upcoming debut features
by Josephine Stewart-Te Whiu and
Rachel House.
What all of Waititi’s projects,
Indigenous-led and otherwise,
have in common is a lightness
and warmth that belies their
sometimes weighty themes.
“Anything that feels earnest,
Taika will dismiss immediately,”
says co-president of Searchlight
Pictures David Greenbaum, who
was an executive at Miramax
when the company picked
up North American rights to
Waititi’s feature directorial
debut, Eagle vs Shark. “His work
“Nerd has not been a
choice. Or dorky. Where
are the dorky Natives?”
is always funny, subversive and
surprising.” On Next Goal Wins,
that showed up in the way Waititi
chose to frame a key character’s
sexuality. “What we were careful
about was not over-explaining
it, not having a fucking scene
where someone’s saying, ‘They’re
one of us,’ and really smashing it
on the head like you’d have in an
American film,” Waititi says.
Though his style on set is
relaxed and open, his movies
are meticulously crafted, and
he believes in the value of a test
screening, says Searchlight co-
president Matthew Greenfield,
who met the filmmaker while
working at the Sundance
Institute, where Waititi work-
shopped Eagle vs Shark. “The
movies don’t feel carefully put
Above: In Next Goal Wins, Kaimana (in yellow) is among the members
of an American Samoan national football team hoping to turn its
fortunes around. Right: Waititi (left) on the film’s set.
43
together, but the details and the
tone are very carefully worked
out,” Greenfield says. “He’s
constantly fine-tuning, making
sure the humor lands the way he
wants it.”
Waititi’s wit is a Trojan horse
for exploring issues like antisem-
itism and colonialism. “Comedy
is a great way of pulling people in
and going, ‘Hey, we’re all friends.
Get comfortable. You’re racist,’ ”
he says. Humor with sociopo-
litical themes has its pitfalls,
however. “People check them-
selves and they go, ‘Am I allowed
to laugh at this?’ ” he says. “They
have to google if they’re allowed
to. And sometimes you shouldn’t
laugh at some stuff. You’ve got to
navigate it.” On Jojo Rabbit, some
audiences felt uncomfortable
with the idea of a Holocaust com-
edy. “People were really unsure
if they should laugh until about
20 minutes into the film,” he
says. “One issue they had was like,
‘Well, I wish I’d known that I was
allowed to laugh.’ Another issue
was, ‘I wish I’d known that he was
Jewish before I went in.’ ”
In Next Goal Wins, Waititi pokes
fun at small-island life. “Now, if
you are from a small town like I
am where there are 600 people
and every girl at a party, the
first question you have to ask is,
‘Who’s your grandmother?’ And
then you’re like, ‘OK, have a good
night, Cuz,’ then you can make
fun of that because you know it,”
he says. “Some European direc-
tor coming into the islands and
then poking fun at the way things
M AY 31, 2023
work, I’d have an issue with that.
But I think because I’m from
Polynesia, it’s OK.” Waititi sees
sentimentalizing a culture as
limiting it. “There will be people
I’m sure who’ll be like, ‘Oh, I wish
you’d shown a bit more of the
romantic side of Samoan cul-
ture,’ ” he says. “But the story’s
about the worst football team
in the world. You’ve got to make
them look bad. The real beauty in
Polynesian culture is the uncles
and aunties who’d sit at the pub
all day and have got all the best
stories and the best jokes.”
The filmmaker’s inclusion of
queer characters, including in
Thor: Love and Thunder and Our
Flag Means Death, got him called
a queer icon in the pages of Out. A
key character in Next Goal Wins is
based on Jaiyah Saelua, the first
openly nonbinary athlete to com-
pete in a FIFA World Cup qualifier,
played by nonbinary newcomer
Kaimana, who is described using
the Polynesian term fa’afafine. “A
lot of Indigenous cultures have
this,” Waititi says of fa’afafine. “I
hate using the term ‘third sex,’
which is a very Western thing. It’s
so much more than that. It’s a very
normal and accepted and quite a
sacred role.”
Reservation Dogs, a critical hit that
will return for its third season
this summer, emerged from a
tequila- and laughter-fueled con-
versation Waititi and Harjo had in
Waititi’s kitchen one night in 2019.
Though they grew up thousands
of miles apart, Waititi on New
Zealand’s North Island and Harjo
in Oklahoma, they share similar
backgrounds and tastes. “We both

had rural Indigenous upbringings
with legendarily funny old hippie
Native dads who were rebuilding
Harleys,” says Harjo. “It’s always
cool to meet someone who grew
up like you who likes Hal Ashby.
You just feel less alone.”
Waititi attributes some of
his artistic sensibilities to New
Zealand’s remote geography.
“Growing up, all you want to do is
leave,” he says. “It’s like, ‘I’m stuck
on an island. And the closest place
is Australia.’ It’s pretty grim.
We’re the Iceland of the South
Pacific. We’re very good at doing
dark stories mixed with gallows
humor. And a lot of that comes
from our deep depression at being
stuck. It’s fucking freezing. There
are no jobs. There’s nothing to do,
especially in the ’80s. And I was
just like, ‘I can’t be an artist here.
And I can’t get off this rock. I can’t
get out of here.’ ”
Waititi’s parents split up when
he was 5 — his father was an
artist of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui
descent, his mother a school-
teacher descended from Russian
Jewish, Irish and other European
ancestors. “I disconnected myself
from grown-ups and from my
parents at a very early age,” he
says. “I must have been 11. Just
deciding, ‘You can’t rely on them.
They’re useless, and you’re not
going to get anywhere if you rely
on grown adults. So you’re going
to do it yourself.’ It wasn’t great
for relationships. But the good
part of that is I was very driven.
I was very lucky to be able to just
focus only on my shit, my stories.”
As a young person, he had a
delusional confidence, which
has turned out to be use-
ful in Hollywood. “I think it’s
Waititi and wife Rita Ora at the 2023 Met Gala.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
narcissism, like I was convinced
my entire life that all my ideas
were great,” he says. “I now know
they’re not. It was like The Truman
Show. I used to think everything
was put in front of me for my own
amusement. And I would be like,
‘Wow, I get to be me, and every-
one’s just doing stuff for me.’ And
then also that everyone is an idiot,
which I still think.”
That assurance — which tips
into arrogance, Waititi knows
— has helped him navigate
creative disputes. “I’m like, ‘I’m
surrounded by morons. And even-
tually, they’ll see I’m right.’ It’s a
pretty assholey thing to say, but it
has helped me stick to my guns.
With filmmaking, there’s no real
trick other than making decisions
fast and with confidence. If you
asked any director, 85 percent of
the time, you have no idea what
you’re doing, and you’re just
hoping that they don’t find out.”
“I think it’s narcissism,
like I was convinced
my entire life that all my
ideas were Great.”
Waititi’s track record suggests
his finger-crossing strategy is
working, with the occasional
hiccup — critics found 2022’s
Thor: Love and Thunder flashy but
narratively ungainly, though the
movie still made the most of any
film in the more than $1 billion
Thor franchise.
Waititi grew up on an eclectic
pop culture diet, watching Maori
comic Billy T. James; American
TV shows like M*A*S*H, Taxi and
Benson; and British comedies like
Blackadder and Fawlty Towers.
CHiPs was a big show for him
because “it was a brown cop riding
a cool motorbike in California,” he
says. “We never saw brown faces
in authoritative roles, roles of
responsibility. Brown faces were
always in a gang in The Warriors
or the terrible punks on the street
in ’80s films.” As a kid, Waititi
identified a lot with Black culture,
too, like Eddie Murphy, Michael
Jackson and Bob Marley. “It wasn’t
probably a conscious thing, but
you’re just drawn to someone who,
44
the color of their skin is a little
similar,” he says.
At Victoria University of
Wellington, he studied theater
and was in a comedy group with
Clement. Much of Waititi’s career
seems driven by a desire to keep
hanging out with his friends,
New Zealand writers and actors
like Clement, House and Rhys
Darby. “It’s like having that little
gang at school that you get to see
every day,” he says. “It makes it
less like work.” He’s also, he says,
very happy being alone. “I was in
films, theater and worked col-
laboratively all my life,” he says.
“I crave that interaction and that
attention, but when it’s happen-
ing, I’m like, ‘It’s too loud. I hate
everyone. I want to go home.’ And
I get home, like, ‘Oh, that’s better.’
And then after an hour, I’m like,
‘I miss people.’ ”
Waititi’s acting career is less
discussed than his directing
one, but he’s been prolific and
varied onscreen, too, playing an
estranged father in his second
feature, the 2010 drama Boy;
a cheerful vampire in his 2014
film version of What We Do in the
Shadows; the vulnerable pirate
Blackbeard in Our Flag Means
Death; and amiable rock beast
Korg, a fan favorite, in the Thors.
He has a small role as a priest in
Next Goal Wins. “I’ll try and find
a way to put myself in anything
because it’s what I do, I love
myself,” he says. “I’m trying to
make this Taika universe.” At the
meeting at Searchlight where
executives told him he could
M AY 31, 2023
Waititi and
Sterlin Harjo
co-created FX’s
Reservation
Dogs. Of the
way Native
characters have
historically
been portrayed
by Hollywood,
Waititi says,
“you’ve just
got to change
those images.”
play the Hitler role in Jojo Rabbit,
“Taika said, ‘You guys are crazy,’ ”
Greenbaum says. “He’d been told
by Hollywood that he needed a
movie star. But he does have star
power, star energy. When Taika
is in the room, you know he’s in
the room.”
While he has more money and
fame now, friends say Waititi is
not all that different from how
he was when he first came to
Hollywood — even then, he had
style. The filmmaker used to sleep
on Runningwater’s couch in West
Hollywood and store his lug-
gage in the dining room. “He just
always had this pile of clothes,”
Runningwater says. “He’d change
outfits four or five times before
going out.” Runningwater accom-
panied Waititi to last year’s Thor:
Love and Thunder premiere. “He
had his glam squad there. Jeanne
Yang, his stylist. His hair was get-
ting done. I was like, ‘Wow, you’ve
really upped your game from that
pile of clothes in my dining room.’
He’s like, ‘Go look in my bedroom.’
And I went to his bedroom, and in
the corner was a pile of clothes.”
When his L.A. friends visited
New Zealand, Waititi toured them
around in a tiny white Citroën
hiked up on hydraulics.
Waititi intended to take
some time off, but so far this
year he has ended up direct-
ing Ora’s music video for her
single “Praising You,” which he
describes as “a mix of ‘All That
Jazz’ with Fame and a little bit of
8 Mile.’ I love working with her,”
he says. “It’s just a good laugh.
It’s nice being married to and
working with someone who’s
ORA: KEVIN MAZUR/MG23/GETTY IMAGES FOR THE MET MUSEUM/VOGUE.
extremely talented. We’ve got a
similar sense of humor and we
listen to the same stuff.” He is
in talks to adapt the best-selling
Kazuo Ishiguro novel Klara and
the Sun for Sony and also has been
working on a Star Wars script for
three years. “I’ve got a really good
 “He does have star
power, star energy,“
says Searchlight
Pictures co-president
David Greenbaum.
“When Taika is in the
room, you know he’s
in the room.”

idea for it,” he says. “It’s just as
with all films, it’s this middle
part. You’re like, ‘What’s going to
happen?’ And then you look at all
of those films that are so great,
you’re like, ‘Well, I guess they
can’t meet some smuggler with an
alien sidekick.’ ”
The writers strike is a wel-
come forced respite. “For the
most part, I would like to take a
few holidays and go and follow
Rita around,” he says. “Just be
her little tour toy boy and hang
out with her and just watch her
perform and get her a cup of tea
backstage.” The duo met after
being introduced by Robert
Pattinson at a house party Waititi
threw in 2018, started dating in
2021 and were married in August
in a small ceremony.
In part due to Ora’s influ-
ence, Waititi, who says he spent
a fair amount of energy in his
younger days trying to seem like
the smartest guy in the room,
has been feeling more relaxed.
“I just feel like I’ve become more
honest in the last couple of years,”
Waititi says. “If someone says a
big word that I’ve been pretending
to understand my entire life, I’m
like, ‘I’ve heard that word all my
life. What does it mean?’ I’m sick
of fucking pretending.” He gets
a kick out of Ora’s malapropisms
and the casual confidence with
which she delivers them. “She left
school early to become a fucking
massive pop star,” he says, “and as
a result says the fucking coolest
things. She’s like, ‘I walk around
the corner, and slow and behold, it
was right in front of me.’ And I’m
like, ‘Babe, it’s lo and behold.’ And
she’s like, ‘No, slow and behold,
way better.’ I’m like, ‘You’re not
wrong. Slow and behold sounds
fucking better.’ ”
Waititi leads a nomadic
lifestyle, spending time in
L.A., London and New Zealand,
where his two children with his
former wife, producer Chelsea
Winstanley, ages 10 and 7, live.
After years of shooting around
the world, he says he’d like to
work in New Zealand now, to be
nearer to them.
He’s also most aware of the
impact of his work not at moments
like the Oscars, but when he goes
back to New Zealand, where he
sees kids who look like him pick-
ing up cameras and making art.
“When you say ‘Maori’ to some-
one, what do you see? You see a
tattooed face of someone doing a
Haka, or in a grass skirt, doing a
war dance,” he says. “For Native
filmmakers, in terms of why it’s
important that we have more rep-
resentation and get to be in control
of our image, it’s because you’ve
just got to change those images.
So when you say ‘Native,’ it’s just
someone who’s doing what I’m
doing, sitting here, in too much
jewelry, talking to you.”

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 45 M AY 31, 2023

 FEDS: ABC/SCOTT EVERETT WHITE. HOT: ANNA KOORIS/SEARCHLIGHT PICTURES. MEXICO: RAMONA ROSALES/CNN. DAHMER: COURETSY OF NETFLIX. RENO: ©20THCENTFOX/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. HOUSEWIVES: ABC/RON TOM.
‘Can I Invite You to Think
Differently About Me?’
Eva Longoria and Niecy Nash-Betts — who will be given THR’s inaugural Trailblazer awards on
May 31 at the Raising Our Voices gala — reflect on shifting perceptions and the next generation:
‘Sometimes people have to be shown something to know that it’s possible’
by Stacey Wilson Hunt

oughly 20 years after breaking out on Comedy Central’s When and how did you first meet? at The Improv for Latin comics. I

R Reno 911! and ABC’s soapy drama Desperate Housewives,

respectively, Niecy Nash-Betts and Eva Longoria are deep
into second acts that, for them, were inevitable.
For Nash-Betts, it’s been a slow burn to be seen as a dra-
matic actor because, as she says of her God-given talent, “The Most
High put being funny in my DNA.” But the biz has caught up: The
three-time Emmy nominee for acting is a leading contender this
NIECY NASH-BETTS It was about 20
years ago at an event with [come-
dian] Alex Thomas.
EVA LONGORIA I think for a pilot? I
was still a nobody. (Laughs.)
NASH-BETTS I said, “That girl’s going
to be something.” Then shortly
was an extra for two years before
I started acting. So while Flamin’
Hot is my first feature, I’ve been
directing pilots, shorts, dramas
and multicams for 12 years. I’ve
planted these seeds. I’ve had my
head down and my feet moving
year for playing Glenda Cleveland in Netflix’s Dahmer — Monster: thereafter, you got Housewives. for more than a decade, waiting
The Jeffrey Dahmer Story, a role for which she’s already won a 2023 You owe it all to me. (Laughs.) for this moment.
Critics Choice Award. Nash-Betts also recently wrapped her first LONGORIA Thank you! NASH-BETTS I echo this sentiment.
season as the lead and executive producer of ABC’s The Rookie: Feds. NASH-BETTS And you weren’t a What I’ve been saying for years
Longoria, who considers herself “a director-producer who fell into nobody. It was a big deal to be on a
Above, from left:
acting,” is now a prolific creator of shows — including CNN’s trav- soap opera back then! Niecy Nash-Betts
elogue series Eva Longoria: Searching for Mexico — and a helmer set LONGORIA I know. To this day, I stars in and
produces ABC’s
to release her feature-directing debut, Flamin’ Hot. The Searchlight could win an Oscar and my mom The Rookie: Feds;
Eva Longoria
Pictures release, about the Mexican American Frito-Lay janitor would still ask, “Are you ever on the set of
who lays claim to inventing the Latin-inspired Cheetos flavor that going back on The Young and the Searchlight’s
Flamin’ Hot, which
upended the snack business, is set to stream June 9 on Disney+ and Restless?” (Laughs.) she directed.
Hulu and earned rave reviews at South by Southwest in March. Right: Longoria
on her CNN travel
The longtime pals and 2023 Raising Our Voices Trailblazers — to How does it feel to be in these series; Nash-
be honored for telling stories onscreen that create empathy and phases of your careers? Betts as Glenda
Cleveland in
understanding for traditionally marginalized people — joined THR LONGORIA When I moved to Netflix’s Dahmer
for a chat in early May to discuss reinvention, the next phase of Hollywood, I worked as a PA and — Monster:
The Jeffrey
Hollywood’s inclusion movement and never settling for “no.” an AD and I produced live shows Dahmer Story.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 46 M AY 31, 2023

is, “Baby, can I invite you to think
differently about me?” When I got
called back for [HBO’s] Getting On
about 10 years ago, I wanted to
read for [a more dramatic char-
acter]. They said, “We don’t see
you that way.” I was so passionate,
they said, “Come back on Friday.”
It was Tuesday. They said, “Do you
want to come back on Friday?” I
said, “No, sir, I’m here right now.”
I was afraid somebody else was
going to come in and wow them.
So they let me read [for the role
of Didi] — and I got nominated
for two Emmys. So this moment
for me is, “I’ve been trying to tell
y’all about this the whole time!”
(Laughs.) I’m not a one-trick pony.
Eva, you’ve worked for years to
create opportunities for Latinx
talent and yet the numbers are
still woeful. Why?
LONGORIA We’re even less repre-
sented now — we’ve gone from
being 7 percent of all onscreen
characters to 5 percent. I don’t
think studios are saying, “Let’s
not cast Latin actors.” They just
don’t understand they’re uncon-
sciously hiring the same people.
For me as an actor, if a character’s
name doesn’t have a “z” at the end,
I won’t be asked to read for it. I’m
a ninth-generation Texan. I didn’t
grow up speaking Spanish. And
yet in auditions I’ve been asked,
“Can you do it like Rosie Perez?
More spicy?”
NASH-BETTS Funny. They’d ask
me, “Can you do it more sassy?”
(Laughs.)
LONGORIA This is why I direct
and produce. I don’t want to play
Hollywood’s game. I want to play
my own game: Create worlds,
opportunities and the final
product. For example, when I was
producing and directing [the ABC
drama] Grand Hotel, I asked for a
list of potential DPs. They were
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
all male. I said, “I want to hire a
female DP. Do you have any?” And
they go, “Oh, yeah.” They had their
résumés — they just didn’t give
them to me.
It didn’t occur to them to diversify
the pile they were giving you.
LONGORIA Exactly. “Here’s Bob,
Tom and Hank.” But I wanted a
woman or person of color in that
job. And so often those folks don’t
have the body of work to get the
job — but can’t get the body of
work because they don’t have the
job. It’s even worse for directors
and editors. So for me it’s, “Can
you do this job? Do you want to
out-hustle and outwork every-
body? If so, the job is yours.”
Niecy, what are your biggest
priorities as a producer in terms
of hiring?
NASH-BETTS We’re in a time when
Black is shiny — everyone wants
to hitch their ride to African
American stories. As a producer, I
want to hire people who look like
me or aren’t [obvious choices]. On
[TNT’s] Claws, there was a char-
acter written for a white woman.
I asked, “Would we entertain a
Black gay man for this?” I have a
very loving disposition when it
comes to suggesting what I want.
(Laughs.) Sometimes people have
to be shown something to know
it’s possible. When The Cosby
Show premiered, everybody’s
heads popped off. “A Black family
where the husband is a doctor
and the wife is an attorney?”
Meanwhile, Black people were
like, “Uh, yeah?”
What does the next phase of
Hollywood’s inclusion movement
ideally look like for you?
LONGORIA The word “diversity” is
so shiny right now. If I’m on one
more “diverse” panel, I might
47
Top: Nash-Betts (second from left)
with the cast of Reno 911!
Above: Longoria (far right) starred on the
ABC hit Desperate Housewives.
scream. (Laughs.) To be honest,
I don’t know. A lot of companies
now have chief diversity officers.
They have fellowships for people
of color. But unless those pro-
grams lead to actual jobs, then
they get to check a box without
really fulfilling the mandate.
NASH-BETTS For me, I never feel
like my blessings are just mine. I
don’t care if you’re a PA, you write
songs, you push a broom, you’re a
grip. “What do you do, baby? Let
me see if I can find space for you.”
LONGORIA Yes. Exposing people in
power to different points of view
is crucial. We also need to dig
more into our communities’ eco-
nomic power. They need to know
our movies and shows are happen-
ing! Where is the studio pushing
the project? If it’s a streamer, how
long will it be on the carousel?
What is the marketing budget?
So often, our content is placed
in different buckets. “Oh, that’s
the brown show. That’s the Black
show.” And those budgets are
generally lower. You really start to
see the discrepancies in market-
ing, promo and ad buys. How can
we become a hit if we don’t have
the same [support]?
When we focus-grouped
Flamin’ Hot, which is about a
Mexican American, I knew it’d
probably resonate with the Latin
community. But it tested equally
through the roof with Black,
Asian, white and Hispanic audi-
ences. That was eye-opening. “Oh,
we have a universal story here.”
M AY 31, 2023
It’s about a man facing adver-
sity, an underdog, the American
dream. And by the way, most of
our stories are universal — not
just “Black” or “brown.”
What’s the best professional
advice you’ve ever received?
NASH-BETTS I talked my way into
the audition for Reno 911!, which
was originally a sketch show.
Then it changed to be mostly
improv. I’m like, “What the hell is
improv?” But I lied and said, “Of
course I know how to do that.”
I called my friend Big George.
“What do I do?” He said: “Just walk
in there, cool as a breeze.” I had to
trust myself that I was going to
figure it out. Also, I’d been arguing
with my [then] husband for years,
so I said, “I got this.” (Laughs.)
Thank you, Big George.
LONGORIA I was producing
[Lifetime’s] Devious Maids and
[then-network president] Nina
Lederman asked, “Do you want
to direct?” I go, “Yes!” Then I was
like, “Why did I say that?” I’d only
done short films. She says, “Guess
what? You learn by doing.” I think
a lot of women feel, “I’m not
ready,” especially actors. You’re
going to make mistakes. Never be
afraid to ask dumb questions. So
the advice is: Learn by doing and
know you are ready.
NASH-BETTS When I directed Claws,
we were playing ’90s R&B music
between takes, giving people more
joy in the work. I loved the idea
that a director could instantly
change the atmosphere. We’re not
digging ditches, y’all! We’re mak-
ing a TV show, and guess what?
We’re going to have fun. Also, I
love telling people what to do.
LONGORIA Me too! (Laughs.)
If we’re lucky enough to see you
collaborate on a project, what
would it be?
LONGORIA Obviously, Sassy and
Spicy. Niecy will get top billing.
I’m ready.
NASH-BETTS We’re on it. We got our
assignment!
Interview edited for length
and clarity.
 Viola Davis
Photographed by
Charles W. Murphy

hollywood’s
forces for change
From creating globally relevant (and incredibly lucrative) content to ensuring representation
in the industry with staffing pipelines, film festivals and gatekeeper-free startups,
the individuals highlighted in THR’s rundown of Hollywood changemakers prove that
diversity, equity and inclusion aren’t just buzzwords — they’re good business
EDITED BY ASHLEY CULLINS & MIKEY O’CONNELL

CRIS ABREGO &
KARLA PITA LOOR
BANIJAY AMERICAS
Abrego is one of the top-ranking
Latino execs in English-language
media, and Pita Loor is the board
chair of the National Association of
Latino Independent Producers, a
major conduit for industry players
who are invested in improving inclu-
sion. Under their leadership, Banijay
Americas has stepped up initiatives
to help people from historically
excluded backgrounds break into
entertainment. “This work has both
financial and cultural bottom lines,
and those are not only equally
important but also inextricably con-
nected,” says Abrego of the content
business. “Success requires atten-
tion to both.”
I’m excited about Abrego: “Mindy
Kaling is just laugh-out-loud funny
and totally unapologetic in her
commitment to centering underrep-
resented people in broad stories.”
Pita Loor: “Dr. Ana-Christina Ramon
and Dr. Darnell Hunt, co-authors
of the UCLA Hollywood Diversity
Report. They’ve tied onscreen repre-
sentation to market performance and
demonstrated that inclusion drives
ratings and the box office.”
RIZ AHMED
ABREGO, LOOR: COURTESY OF BANIJAY AMERICAS. ALLIAN: COURTESY OF FILM INDEPENDENT. ALLEN: MICHAEL BEZJIAN/GETTY IMAGES FOR ALLEN MEDIA GROUP/COURTESY OF BYRON ALLEN. ALVARADO: JOHN SCIULLI/GETTY IMAGES FOR NALIP.
in every department are a diverse
group of individuals with authority.”
BYRON ALLEN
MEDIA MOGUL
The Allen Media Group chairman
— who owns The Weather Channel,
TheGrio and dozens of local TV sta-
tions across the country — has called
out racial inequality in the business
sphere his entire career, battling
Comcast all the way to the Supreme
Court in his pursuit of social justice.
“Black America owns nothing and
has very little,” Allen, 62, tells THR.
“We must close the education gap
and achieve real economic inclusion
through substantial Black ownership
throughout the entire global financial
ecosystem.”
Companies that want real change
should “Stop the systemic racism
and start real economic inclusion for
Black America.”
JAIRO ALVARADO
MANAGER
Alvarado co-founded lit manage-
ment and production company
Redefine Entertainment to support
talent from underrepresented
groups. His client list includes
Lulu Wang, Blue Beetle direc-
tor Angel Manuel Soto and writer
Gareth Dunnet-Alcocer. “What if
having empathy for one another
became the DNA of our business?”
asks Alvarado, who serves on the
board of the National Association
of Latino Independent Producers.
“Businesses can inspire ways to
speak to all consumers. That in itself
would lead to the inclusion of many
more voices.”
A force for change in my career
“Kevin McCormick at Warner Bros.
If he hadn’t opened that door for me,
I may have found myself in a differ-
ent part of the business — or out of
it entirely.”
BELA BAJARIA
NETFLIX
Bajaria’s rise continues at Netflix,
where she’s now chief content officer
and responsible for both film and TV
output to the streamer’s 232.5 mil-
lion subscribers. Of late, the veteran
exec is responsible for a growing
stable of inclusive hits, from Korean
juggernaut Squid Game to Shonda
Rhimes’ Bridgerton prequel Queen
Charlotte. Bajaria likes to say that
Netflix doesn’t make global shows,
but rather local shows that resonate
globally. “So people actually see
themselves,” she’s said, “and see
cultures and people they don’t
know about.”
Abrego
GREG BERLANTI
WRITER-PRODUCER
With recent feature film adapta-
tions like My Policeman and Love,
Pita Loor Simon, veteran TV producer Berlanti
is working to give queer stories a
platform on the big screen. But if
the industry is looking to make real
change, Berlanti says, it has to come
from the top: “Companies should
Allain start looking at their executive suite
to ensure those voices are as diverse
as the stories they tell and the world
in which we live.”
I’m excited by “[All American EP]
Nkechi Okoro Carroll, who I believe
Allen represents and demonstrates
the best of what real change is in
this business.”
ERYN BROWN
Alvarado MANAGER
With disability representation often
overlooked in inclusion conversa-
tions, Brown says, executives need
to understand “the systemic issues
that have prevented opportunity
and then [put] the time and effort

ACTOR-PRODUCER
Known for his lauded onscreen roles
in The Night Of and Sound of Metal,
Ahmed is also telling diverse stories
through his banner Left Handed
Films (The Long Goodbye), which
has a first-look TV deal with Amazon
Studios. He executive-produced
transgender love story Joyland, the
first Pakistani film to play at Cannes
and be shortlisted for the best
international feature Oscar. Ahmed
also teamed with USC’s Annenberg
Inclusion Initiative for two studies
on the prevalence and portrayal of
Muslim characters onscreen, reveal-
ing just how sparse those portrayals
have been.
A force for change in my career
“Idris Elba. He told me once to go to
the USA and to not let people catego-
rize me. I listened to him.”

STEPHANIE ALLAIN
PGA PRESIDENT
Before becoming co-president of the
Producers Guild of America — and
the first woman of color to lead the
organization — Allain helped launch
the trajectories of John Singleton,
Darnell Martin and Robert Rodriguez
as a creative exec in the ’90s. She
also broke new ground implement-
ing diversity metrics as the L.A.
Film Festival director in the 2010s
and has supported emerging voices
as a producer (Hustle & Flow, Dear
White People). Riz Ahmed
Companies that want real change Photographed by
David Needleman
should “Make sure the gatekeepers

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 49 M AY 31, 2023


into creating access for those
who are not in the room.” The 360
Entertainment manager co-founded
the 1IN4 Coalition, which aims to
create institutional change not only
when it comes to accessible work
environments and hiring, but also to
ensure that disabled, neurodiverse
and deaf people are authentically
represented onscreen.
Companies that want real
change should “Give more women
greenlight power.”
NICOLE BROWN
TRISTAR
The first Black woman to run a film
label at a major film studio, Brown
was the impassioned force behind
getting Viola Davis and Gina Prince-
Bythewood’s The Woman King and
the Whitney Houston biopic I Wanna
Dance With Somebody made, as well
as landing 2020’s Happiest Season
— a first for LGBTQ+ representa-
tion. Being a force for change means
“being fearless and unapologetic to
push the limits of what our business
is capable of,” says Brown.
A force for change in my career
“John Singleton, whom I met during
his making of Boyz N the Hood. We
spent a lot of time discussing the
power of transformational storytell-
ing and making sure ‘we’ were in the
room. Miss him.”
QUINTA BRUNSON
WRITER-PRODUCER-ACTOR
Not content with just being the
creator and star of what is, perhaps,
the only cool show on broadcast
TV, the Emmy-winning writer and
SAG Award-winning star of Abbott
Elementary has leveraged her show’s
atypical success for good since
day one — donating much of the
marketing budget for her grammar-
school-set sitcom to pay for school
supplies and using her recent
Saturday Night Live monologue to
advocate for educator salaries.
A force for change in my career “Erin
Wehrenberg [senior vp comedy, ABC],
who understood my potential.”
KATHRYN BUSBY
STARZ
For Busby, whose roster includes
P-Valley, Run the World and Black
Mafia Family, pushing for equity
and inclusion in Hollywood means
“making sure I use my voice and my
platform to do good in the world.”
Before taking the reins at the cable
network, she worked with The Black
List creator Franklin Leonard on a
plan to identify diverse new talent
for blind script deals and staffing
at Sony, and served on the BAFTA
Steering Group to ensure diversity in
the award nominations.
Fave inclusive project (that I didn’t
work on) “Swarm, with Beef as a
Berlanti close second.”
GLORIA CALDERÓN KELLETT
WRITER-PRODUCER
An actress, director and writer,
E. Brown Calderón Kellett is perhaps best
known for her work as a showrun-
ner. Under a deal with Amazon, she’s
delivered projects fronted by women
and members of the Latino/a/x/e
community (see: With Love and
N. Brown forthcoming The Horror of Dolores
Roach) and assisted the streamer
in developing its Inclusion Playbook
minimums (more on this below). A
member of the Television Academy’s
executive committee, the Cuban
Busby American has also lent her advocacy
to groups like Untitled Latinx Project,
The Creative Coalition and the envi-
ronmentally minded Scriptation.
Calderón Kellett RUPAUL CHARLES
ACTOR-PRODUCER
The 11-time Emmy-winning creator
and host of RuPaul’s Drag Race has
done more for queer representation Quinta Brunson
on TV than just about anyone. But Photographed by
Obidi Nzeribe
RuPaul RuPaul, who populates his series
with diverse personalities within
the LGBTQ+ community, engages
in just as much activism off-camera.
Alongside producers Fenton Bailey
and Randy Barbuto, RuPaul recently
Cheng drove $1.4 million in donations to
the ACLU’s Drag Defense Fund —
supporting a community under fire
by anti-drag legislation in states like
Tennessee and Texas.
ALBERT CHENG
AMAZON PRIME VIDEO U.S.
Two years ago, Amazon Studios
made it clear to Hollywood that the
company was going to be a major
diversity leader by announcing a
detailed “playbook” that set inclusion
minimums for both behind and in
front of the camera (such as mandat-
ing that 30 percent of creative teams
come from an underrepresented
group — a benchmark set to rise to
50 percent next year). To Cheng, it
seemed like a direct evolution for an
executive who was first captivated by
the possibilities of TV when he saw
the groundbreaking miniseries Roots
METHODOLOGY
as a kid. “It goes beyond advocacy,”
For the 2023 he says. “It’s about being intentional
Forces for
Change list, THR — setting goals for inclusion and
editors polled holding ourselves accountable.”
the community Hollywood’s state of inclusion is …
and ultimately
chose honorees “Fragile, as economic pressure in our
based on tangible business can leave equity and inclu-
efforts made for sion on the cutting-room floor.”
DE&I in Hollywood
with a focus on
programming
slates, casting,
staffing,
RYAN COOGLER Sterlin Harjo
DIRECTOR-PRODUCER Photographed by
education Shane Brown
and outreach. Long celebrated for his nuanced
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 50 M AY 31, 2023
 and abundant inclusion of Black
actors in his own films (Fruitvale
Station, Creed and the $2 billion-
grossing Black Panther franchise),
Coogler has also championed fellow
creatives of color behind the scenes
— as he did producing newcomer
Shaka King’s Judas and the Black
Messiah. His multimedia produc-
tion company, Proximity Media,
now lobbies for inclusive work in
feature films, television, soundtracks
and podcasts.
VIOLA DAVIS &
JULIUS TENNON
PRODUCERS
The married couple’s JuVee
Productions helped catapult Gina
Prince-Bythewood’s The Woman
King (a Davis vehicle) to a No. 1 box
office seat and multiple acco-
lades the same year it delivered
Showtime’s The First Lady. It’s all
part of a decade-long initiative to put
more diversity in media, something
the duo says it would like to see
better extended to Indigenous and
disabled communities.
Hollywood’s state of inclusion is …
Both: “Inconsistent and noncom-
mittal. It ebbs and flows. It lacks a
progressive spirit because as much
as people want a change they do not
want to change.”
BRIAN DOBBINS
MANAGER
The Artists First co-president and
CALDERÓN KELLETT: UNIQUE NICOLE/FILMMAGIC. CHARLES: DAVID LIVINGSTON/GETTY IMAGES. COOGLER: ARNOLD TURNER/GETTY IMAGES FOR ESSENCE. TENNON: DIMITRIOS KAMBOURIS/GETTY IMAGES FOR GLAMOUR.
BERLANTI, CHENG: STEVE GRANITZ/FILMMAGIC. E.BROWN, DUNCAN, JOHNSON, KOLE: COURTESY OF SUBJECT. N.BROWN: DANIELLE SPIRES/COURTESY OF SUBJECT. BUSBY: KATE GREEN/BAFTA/GETTY IMAGES FOR BAFTA.
manager of clients such as Anthony
Anderson, Niecy Nash-Betts and
Jon M. Chu has been making it his
mission to welcome and mentor
DOBBINS: FRAZER HARRISON/WIREIMAGE. DUNGEY: JEROD HARRIS. IGBOKWE: MAARTEN DE BOER/NBCUNIVERSAL. YEUN: GARY MILLER/WIREIMAGE. CHIENG: JEROD HARRIS/GETTY IMAGES FOR NETFLIX.
unique, diverse talent in Hollywood
— because when he started out, he
felt like he was in a business that
wasn’t set up for him. Despite not
feeling represented in the agency
world, he stuck with it and is using his
decades of experience to guide new
inclusive talent.
I’m excited about “[Race car driver]
Lewis Hamilton. He’s courageous and
outspoken in a sport where he’s told
not to be.”
TARA DUNCAN
ONYX COLLECTIVE
The veteran programmer is now both
the face of and brains behind Onyx
Collective, a Disney-owned premium
content brand that’s expressly
focused on curating content by
creators of color. On Duncan’s
watch, Onyx’s output has included
Oscar-winning documentary Summer
of Soul, the docuseries The Hair
Tales, The 1619 Project and Kerry
Washington’s dramedy UnPrisoned.
And viewers should expect plenty
more as Duncan has successfully
lured a who’s who of talent to her
roster, including Prentice Penny,
Yara Shahidi, Natasha Rothwell and
Ryan Coogler.
Fave inclusive project (that I didn’t
work on) Reservation Dogs
CHANNING DUNGEY &
PEARLENA IGBOKWE
STUDIO EXECS
Dungey has had to get comfortable
with strangers coming up to tell her
that they’ve followed her career,
which has been marked by a series
of firsts. Indeed, she was the first
Black person to run a U.S. broadcast
network (ABC), and now she’s the
first Black and female head of Warner
Bros. TV group, where she’s filling
out an already diverse talent pool
that includes Quinta Brunson, Mindy
Kaling, Nkechi Okoro Carroll and
Janine Sherman Barrois. Meanwhile
at Universal, Igbokwe is champion-
ing creators “telling nuanced stories
with diverse characters and universal
themes” through series like Harlem
(gender identity) and As We See
It (neurodiversity). She also lauds
the NBCU Launch programs, which
cultivate inclusive talent above and
below the line.
Fave inclusive project (that I
didn’t work on) Dungey: Everything
Everywhere All at Once; Igbokwe:
The Woman King
AVA DUVERNAY
DIRECTOR-PRODUCER
The filmmaker has walked the walk
in bringing underrepresented voices
to the forefront both in her choice
of subject matter — in Netflix’s 13th
and When They See Us and the
feature film The White Tiger, which
her Array Filmworks produced — and
in the people she hires. DuVernay
committed to having only women
directors on the OWN drama Queen
Sugar, and by the time the series
ended, more than 40 had stepped
behind the camera. Now DuVernay
wants to see “the true, unsanitized
experiences of incarcerated and
formerly incarcerated citizens and
the people who love them” brought
to screens.
A force for change in my career
“Early in my career change from
publicist to filmmaker, Robin Swicord
extended kindness to me after we
met during a Film Independent panel.
Her encouragement of my work
as a writer and director bolstered
my confidence.”
STERLIN HARJO
WRITER-PRODUCER
The Harjo-created Reservation Dogs,
which shoots in Oklahoma, has been
a watershed moment for repre-
sentation — employing an entirely
Indigenous writers room and an
overwhelmingly Indigenous cast. But
with that rare representation comes
pressure, and Harjo is using the FX
series to capture as many experi-
ences as possible. “I’m never going
to be able to represent everybody in
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
a way that is satisfying,” he told THR
last year. “It’s a growing, ongoing,
Which trope organic process.”
needs to die?
CHANNING DUNGEY Coogler MATTHEW JOHNSON &
“I woke up like this.”
TARA KOLE
TALENT LAWYERS
When Johnson, Kole and their part-
GINA ners launched JSSK, inclusivity was
PRINCE-BYTHEWOOD baked into its DNA. The Hollywood
“White savior” Tennon talent firm has two full-time staff
members dedicated to philanthropic
KERRY WASHINGTON and civic engagement, more than
“ ‘Sexy’ corpse”
half of its employees are people of
color and 60 percent are female. Kole
says that “creates a stronger and
DAN LIN Dobbins more creative work environment that
“Asian men as nerds. consistently delivers better results”
Guys like Jo Koy, for clients.“It goes beyond just having
Jimmy O. Yang, Ronny someone who has a shared experi-
Chieng and Hasan ence,” adds Johnson. “There is value
Minhaj are showing in having people with different per-
the funny side of Asian Duncan spectives come to the table and talk
males, and Steven about an approach to a problem.”
Yeun, Simu Liu and I’m excited about Both: “Theresa
Daniel Dae Kim are Kang, Phil Sun and Tara Duncan.”
showing that we can be
action stars, too!”
Dungey MICHAEL B. JORDAN
ACTOR-DIRECTOR-PRODUCER
In his transition from marquee
leading man to filmmaker, Jordan is
showing his commitment to all kinds
of storytelling. His directorial debut,
Igbokwe Creed III, in which he also starred,
was celebrated for its treatment
of the character played by deaf
Chieng Yeun actress Mila Davis-Kent. The film,
which has grossed nearly $275 mil-
lion worldwide, could have gotten
GLEN MAZZARA
Johnson a pass for just being an action flick
“It’s hard to be a white but deftly deployed American Sign
guy these days.” Language and subtitles to increase
accessibility.
RISHI RAJANI A force for change in my career
“Overcoming one’s “Ryan Coogler. In our first meeting
otherness” Kole about Fruitvale Station he said, ‘I
wrote this for you. I know you’re a
star. Let’s go show the world.’ ”
Bela Bajaria
Photographed by
Diana King
51 M AY 31, 2023
 Michael B. Jordan so we can tap into a different well
Photographed by
Chrisean Rose of talent,” says Longoria, who has
stepped into that role for the Latinx
community. For her directorial debut,
Flamin’ Hot, which tells the real-life
story of the Frito-Lay janitor who
takes credit for the titular spicy
Cheetos, Longoria prioritized hiring
people from the Mexican commu-
nity. And onscreen, “everything from
the Tapatío and the salsa verde on
the table to how we tie the ban-
dannas on the cholos, it has to be
authentic. We can’t be caricatures
of ourselves.” (Read Longoria’s
discussion with Niecy Nash-Betts
on page 46.)
I’m excited about “Gloria Calderón
Kellett. She is a beast. She’s creating
the world she wants to see. She’s not
only leaning in, but she’s reaching
back to bring others along with her.”

THERESA KANG
PRODUCER-MANAGER
The former WME partner became
the first Asian American to transition
from the agency world to launch
a management and production
a representation partnership with
Sun’s M88. King’s fellow WME alum
launched his Macro-backed firm in
2020 with a mission to amplify the
voices of artists from diverse back-
Kang grounds. Its clients include Michael B.
Jordan and Ryan Coogler.
heralds the best unproduced proj-
ects in Hollywood, boosting titles like
Argo and Spotlight that have gone
on to earn a cumulative 200 Oscar
nominations. As for the industry’s
diversity efforts, he says, “I actually
reject the notion of going above and
ALANA MAYO
ORION PICTURES
Under the relaunched Orion Pictures,
Mayo’s mandate as president has
been to produce inclusive films from
diverse voices. Even after the MGM
acquisition, Orion has maintained
that directive, producing a var-
ied slate that includes Chinonye
Chukwu’s Till, about the life and
justice work of Mamie Till-Mobley
(whose 14-year-old son, Emmett Till,
was lynched in 1955 in Mississippi),
and Bottoms, the off-the wall
LGBTQ+ high school comedy from
the Shiva Baby team.
GLEN MAZZARA

WIREIMAGE. MAZZARA: FRAZER HARRISON/GETTY IMAGES. MURPHY: TAYLOR HILL/FILMMAGIC. MURARRY: MICHAEL TRAN/GETTY IMAGES. OLMOS: MICHAEL BUCKNER/VARIETY VIA GETTY IMAGES. PERRY: LEV
company with an overall deal at Companies that want real change beyond to push for equity and inclu- WRITER-PRODUCER

KANG: AMANDA EDWARDS/GETTY IMAGES. KING: MICHAEL LOCCISANO/GETTY IMAGES. SUN, MAYO: COURTESY OF SUBJECT. LEONARD: JEAN BAPTISTE LACROIX/FILMMAGIC. LIN, LONGORIA: KARWAI TANG/
Apple back in 2020. Since then, Kang should King: “Align their jobs and sion. That is, quite literally, the job, if Well before the push to diversify
has been focused on building out a compensation with data-supported you’re doing it right.” writers rooms became a priority for
curated slate of projects — includ- systemic change within their Hollywood’s state of inclusion is … Hollywood, it was a priority for Glen

ing recent Peabody Award-winning King
series Pachinko — that reflect the
global culture with a “mission to
move what is considered ‘foreign’
into the familiar and connected.”
Kang’s diverse client roster includes
Oscar winner Alfonso Cuarón, Emmy Sun
winner Lena Waithe and best-selling
author Gillian Flynn.
Fave inclusive project (that I didn’t
work on) “Beef, and I can’t wait to see
Killers of the Flower Moon.”
Leonard
CHARLES D. KING &
PHILLIP SUN
PRODUCER; MANAGER
King’s Macro, behind such features
as the Oscar-winning Judas and the Lin
Black Messiah and the upcoming
John Boyega Netflix feature They
Cloned Tyrone, raised $90 mil-
lion in March to broaden its media
ambitions for historically under-
represented talent. Macro is actively
trying to populate Hollywood with
new blood — the company oversees
a microfestival at Howard University
to show students pathways to
entertainment careers — and elevate
those already in the industry via
entire organization.”
Hollywood’s state of inclusion …
Sun: “Still has a long way to go.”
SPIKE LEE
WRITER-DIRECTOR
A pioneer for industry DE&I before
it was a real notion, Lee continues
to put in the work. His Spike Fellows
Program, a partnership with the
Gersh Agency, launched in January
of this year and is committed to help-
ing students at HBCUs Morehouse
(Lee’s alma mater), Spelman and
Clark Atlanta University navigate
careers in the arts. The multiyear
commitment to five graduates
includes student loan debt relief,
industry mentorship, postgraduate
internships and full-time employ-
ment at Gersh. (Read more about
HBCU graduates in Hollywood on
page 56.)
FRANKLIN LEONARD
THE BLACK LIST
Leonard has spent decades reading
and critiquing screenplays for his
influential site, The Black List, which
“Laughably similar to immediately
before every company posted Black
tiles on Instagram and made perfor-
mative promises to make change.”
DAN LIN
PRODUCER
Last year, the Taiwan-born CEO
and producer behind blockbuster
hits like Warner Bros.’ Robert
Downey Jr.-starring Sherlock
Holmes series and the Lego Movie
franchise launched Rideback Rise
alongside head of content Tracey
Bing and executive director Sabrina
Pourmand. The nonprofit BIPOC
content accelerator aims to advance
racial equity. Lin notes that industry
inclusivity remains “in flux,” while
still making “incremental progress”
toward greater representation
with support from major studios
and networks.
We need more stories about
“Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders.”
EVA LONGORIA
ACTOR-PRODUCER-DIRECTOR
“Somebody has to build this pipeline
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Mazzara. For nearly 20 years, the
veteran showrunner (The Walking
Dead) has worked as hard on break-
ing barriers as he did on breaking
story. Mazzara, who co-chairs the
WGA’s equity and inclusion group
with Shonda Rhimes, says, “When we
first started having this conversa-
tion, people would actually say, ‘Why
are you as a white guy talking about
this? It’s not your problem.’ And it’s
everyone’s problem.”
Companies that want real change
should “Stop saying, ‘Let’s just
get through this. We’ll deal with it
next time.’ ”
RYAN MURPHY
WRITER-PRODUCER
Murphy’s TV universe, which
includes hit franchises like Feud,
Monster and American Crime Story,
has long featured marginalized
stories previously lost to history.
He’s often said that he’s drawn to the
margins, and has made a career of
making minorities the leads rather
than the sidekicks. In fact, every-
one from Black gay actor Billy Porter
to trans star Michaela Jaé Rodriguez

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 52 M AY 31, 2023

 has credited the “gay kid from
Indiana” turned prolific producer
with changing their personal and
professional trajectories.
JONATHAN MURRAY
BUNIM MURRAY PRODUCTIONS
Working with the Television
Academy Foundation and disability
rights organization RespectAbility,
Murray has been a longtime patron
and advocate for disabled creatives
and stories centered on disabilities.
The Born This Way producer recalls
the impact of watching PBS docu-
series An American Family, which
featured the first out person in an
unscripted TV series (Lance Loud).
Murray says, “It would be life-chang-
ing for the disability community and
the larger community to see charac-
ters on TV with disabilities that don’t
define them but are just part of their
larger experience.”
EDWARD JAMES OLMOS
ACTOR-DIRECTOR-PRODUCER
The award-winning actor and
director founded the Latino Film
Institute, which runs the Los Angeles
Latino International Film Festival
and works to give Latino filmmak-
Spike Lee ers and animators a gateway to
Photographed by
Jai Lennard
the industry. Olmos, who has lent
gravitas to roles ranging from
Battlestar Galactica to FX’s Mayans
MC, says his push for equity and
inclusion in Hollywood “means build-
ing the infrastructure for the Latino
community in the entertainment
industry, while remaining focused
on excellence.”
We need more stories about “The
Latino Medal of Honor recipients.
I’ve spent nearly 30 years trying to
tell the story of the first Mexican
American Medal of Honor winner,
but for some reason I can’t get any
studio interested.”
JORDAN PEELE
DIRECTOR-WRITER-PRODUCER
An auteur adept at taking on social
issues in his storytelling, Peele and
his Monkeypaw Productions are
equally impactful offscreen: Through
a partnership with Universal, Nope
became the first film to participate
in the California Below-the-Line
Traineeship program, which provides
on-set experience and mentorship to
individuals from historically excluded
backgrounds. And alongside its
Spotify original Quiet Part Loud,
Monkeypaw launched a cam-
paign to combat anti-Muslim hate
and disinformation.
TYLER PERRY
ACTOR-DIRECTOR-PRODUCER
With nine TV shows on air and avail-
Ava DuVernay able for streaming — plus a bustling
Photographed by movie slate — Perry continues to
Diana King
create opportunities for Black and
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 53 M AY 31, 2023
brown talent in front of and behind
the camera. While opening doors
for others, the prolific multihyphen-
ate and CEO has also learned to
“let go of more and train people to
handle more.” The result? He says, Longoria
“I’ve been proud of how they’ve
been able to step in and make
things work.”
A force for change in my career
Oprah Winfrey
Mayo
GINA PRINCE-BYTHEWOOD
FILMMAKER
When it comes to hiring diverse
casts and crews, the Old Guard
and Love & Basketball director has Mazzara
the industry’s best track record.
And that’s backed up by data: The
USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative
ranked her drama The Woman King
the most inclusive theatrical release
from 2019 to 2022. “People of color Murphy
often have shorter résumés, not for
lack of talent, but for lack of oppor-
tunity,” Prince-Bythewood says. “I’m
very intentional about looking past
résumés and giving people I believe
in the shot.” Murray
Fave inclusive project (that I didn’t
work on) Never Have I Ever and
Abbott Elementary
ISSA RAE Olmos
ACTOR-PRODUCER
Two years into Hoorae’s five-year
overall deal with WarnerMedia,
Rae continues to be a trailblazer
for Black creators — first with
Insecure, then with Rap Sh!t and Perry
soon with a revival of Project
Greenlight, where the THR Equity
in Entertainment honoree uplifts
new voices and ensures diversity
on set. That’s on top of starring
in Barbie and Spider-Man: Across Rae
the Spider-Verse, entering the
hair and beauty space with Sienna
Naturals, and opening the fourth
location of her Hilltop Kitchen +
Coffee eatery.
Rajani
RISHI RAJANI &
LENA WAITHE
HILLMAN GRAD
In addition to backing recent films
told through a unique lens such as Waithe
the mother-son drama A Thousand
and One and the Disney+ crowd-
pleaser Chang Can Dunk, Emmy
winner Waithe and Rajani’s Hillman
Grad is home to a nonprofit arm that
offers a tuition-free mentorship lab.
It also partners with the job search
site Indeed on the Rising Voices pro-
gram, which has invested millions in
helping up-and-coming BIPOC film-
makers create short films budgeted
at $100,000 each.
I’m excited about Waithe:
“Etienne Maurice [Founder of
WalkGood LA]. I love the work
he’s doing regarding wellness and
mental health.”
Rajani: “Steven Spohn of

AbleGamers, working to help [those]
with physical and cognitive disabili-
ties have fun and play video games.”
SHONDA RHIMES
WRITER-PRODUCER
Rhimes’ impact is felt far beyond her
roster of hits. The prolific show-
runner (Grey’s Anatomy, Queen
Charlotte) has quietly rolled out
a collection of trainee programs
designed to ensure that the future of
Hollywood is more inclusive. Among
them: her Producers Inclusion
Initiative, a nine-week program
that trains people from historically
underrepresented communities to
be line producers, and her Ladder
Program, which offers that same pool
the necessary on-set experience to
rise in the studio system.
Fave inclusive project (that I didn’t
work on) “American Auto (I am a
huge Cyrus fan).”
LAUREN RIDLOFF
ACTOR-PRODUCER
Deaf actress and Eternals star Ridloff
wants to see more people like her
onscreen. “It is a dream of mine to
see a film that centers around deaf
people and is in ASL from start to
finish,” she says. Offscreen, she’s
using her platform as executive
producer and star of an upcom-
ing romantic drama (from Ava
DuVernay’s Array) to help deaf writ-
ers get staffed on the show.
I’m excited about “Christine Sun
Kim. She is unapologetic about
pointing out all the microaggressions
she faces as a deaf Korean American
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
artist who is a woman, and turns
those microaggressions into art and
throws it at people.”
BIRD RUNNINGWATER
THE SUNDANCE INSTITUTE
“I was always the only Indigenous
person in every room I entered
in Hollywood,” Runningwater
recalls of his early work at the
Sundance Institute. A member of the
Cheyenne and Mescalero Apache
Tribes, he has guided filmmak-
ers in “advancing an Indigenous
agenda” since 2001. The commu-
nity’s breakthrough in American
TV came via FX/Hulu’s Reservation
Dogs, created by Taika Waititi and
Sterlin Harjo, both of whom were
supported in their feature debuts by
Sundance programs.
Hollywood’s state of inclusion is …
“Waning after such strong initial
intentions — though I do believe
Jordan Peele
Photographed by
Charles W. Murphy
54 M AY 31, 2023
there are still die-hard allies out
there willing to support the cause.”
SANJAY SHARMA
Rhimes MARGINAL MEDIAWORKS
Sharma is a major fundraising force
for the Coalition of Asian Pacifics
in Entertainment and is a found-
ing member of Hollywood’s other
leading AAPI-focused nonprofit,
Ridloff Gold House. In his day job leading his
startup studio Marginal Mediaworks,
which spans everything from Black
queer sci-fi thrillers to South Asian
heist comedies, he backs outsider
voices and emerging creators “to get
Runningwater more people into the system versus
cementing around already estab-
lished A-list players,” focusing on
“more at-bats and lower budgets to
create commercial velocity.”
I’m excited about “Rishi Rajani,
Sharma who leads Hillman Grad, and Talitha
Watkins, who leads ColorCreative.”
NINA SHAW
TALENT LAWYER
Shaw A trailblazer in the entertainment
and legal communities, Shaw not
only represents forces for change —
like fellow honorees Ava DuVernay,
Quinta Brunson, Gina Prince-
Bythewood and Lena Waithe — she
Waititi is one herself. Shaw says having
varied perspectives is vital and
she’s encouraged by the increasing
diversity among Hollywood lawyers:
“I am proud because I have been a
leader in our community, which ulti-
mately led to lack of diversity being
the exception.”
Companies that want real change
should “Stop the belief that women
and people of color can only make
RHIMES: JASON MENDEZ/GETTY IMAGES. RIDLOFF: TAYLOR HILL/GETTY IMAGES. RUNNINGWATER: MIKE COPPOLA/GETTY IMAGES. SHARMA: GREGG DEGUIRE/FILMMAGIC. SHAW: COURTESY OF
gains if someone else is disadvan-
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taged; the data doesn’t support the
theory and that trope needs to die.”
YANG BONGIOVI: ANNA WEBBER/GETTY IMAGES FOR ILLUMINATIVE. YANG: MONICA SCHIPPER/GETTY IMAGES. YUTANI: ALBERTO E. RODRIGUEZ/GETTY IMAGES FOR BAFTA LA.
TAIKA WAITITI
FILMMAKER
See cover story on page 40.
A force for change in my career
“Merata Mita. She was my mentor
and the first female Maori filmmaker.
Using film as a weapon against
colonial oppression, her activism
and staunch determination changed
the way Maori were perceived in
film and mainstream media [and]
paved the way for myself and all
Maori filmmakers.”
KERRY WASHINGTON
ACTOR-PRODUCER
The star and executive producer of
UnPrisoned continues to champion
Black voices with her Simpson Street
company, which is behind the Hulu
dramedy as well as the streamer’s
legal drama Reasonable Doubt
and the upcoming The Bobby Love
Story, starring Octavia Spencer.
Washington also stars in and pro-
duces Tyler Perry’s upcoming feature
 JANET YANG
THE ACADEMY OF MOTION
PICTURE ARTS AND SCIENCES
The Queens-born daughter of
Washington Chinese immigrants is the fourth
woman, second person of color and
first Asian ever elected president
of the Academy. After Chris Rock
mocked Asian kids on the 2016
Oscars, the Joy Luck Club producer
Winfrey rallied others to lean on the org’s
leadership to do better, and in 2019
was appointed to its board as a
governor-at-large. This season, a
film won’t be eligible for best picture
unless it meets the Oscars’ new
Whitaker inclusion requirements.
Fave inclusive project (that
I didn’t work on) “Everything
Everywhere combined heartfelt
authenticity and wackiness like
we’ve never seen before. The
Yang Bongiovi upcoming Joy Ride, a raunchy sex
comedy, will cement AAPI’s place in
the mainstream.”

Gina Prince-Bythewood
Photographed by
Charles W. Murphy
Six Triple Eight, about an all-Black
battalion in the Women’s Army Corps
that sorts and delivers backlogged
mail to soldiers and families during
World War II.
I’m excited about “[Black Love cre-
ators] Tommy and Codie Elaine Oliver
and [Invisible Collective co-founder]
Stephen Love.”
OPRAH WINFREY
MEDIA MOGUL
Winfrey has spent decades actively
trying to level an uneven playing
field, be it through politics, journalism
or hundreds of millions in dedicated
philanthropy. In addition to her titular
OWN network, which caters to an
underserved Black audience with
groundbreaking series like Queen
Sugar, Winfrey has acted as both a
producer and a champion of other
inclusive efforts, from Hulu’s The
1619 Project to a forthcoming new
adaptation of The Color Purple.
FOREST WHITAKER &
NINA YANG BONGIOVI
PRODUCERS
Ryan Coogler and Boots Riley are
among the filmmakers boosted
by Yang Bongiovi and Whitaker’s
Yang
Yutani
Significant Productions, which has
earned a reputation for produc-
ing debut features from promising
directors of color. Yang Bongiovi
also co-founded AUM Group, which
helps finance projects like this
year’s Sundance breakout Fancy
Dance from Indigenous filmmaker
Erica Tremblay. Working to create a
truly diverse Hollywood, says Yang
Bongiovi, “means putting everything
you’ve built in your career — your
leverage, reputation, brand and vis-
ibility — on the line with your peers
and gatekeepers.”
I’m excited about Yang Bongiovi:
“Bing Chen from Gold House.”
KIM YUTANI
SUNDANCE
As the Sundance Film Festival
programming director, Yutani has
made a concerted effort to feature
more titles made by filmmakers from
underrepresented backgrounds.
Of more than 100 films in the 2023
lineup, 45 percent were directed by
filmmakers who identify as people of
color, while 20 percent were directed
by members of the LGBTQ+ com-
munity. “I personally wouldn’t frame
a push for equity and inclusion as
‘going above and beyond’ anything,”
says Yutani. “You all have the ability
to embrace equity and inclusion
as something organic to your
work culture.”
A force for change in my career
“Kirsten Schaffer, who became my
mentor through Film Independent’s
Project: Involve when she was at
Outfest (now she’s the CEO of
Women in Film).”
Profiles by Seth Abramovitch, Gary
Baum, Evan Nicole Brown, Tyler
Coates, Kirsten Chuba, Aaron Couch,
Scott Feinberg, Mesfin Fekadu, Mia
Galuppo, James Hibberd, Rebecca
Keegan, Sydney Odman, Rick Porter,
Lacey Rose, Julian Sancton, Rebecca
Sun and Beatrice Verhoeven

JAIRO ALVARADO GINA PRINCE-BYTHEWOOD BIRD RUNNINGWATER

“I was at a crossroads in my “A white, ‘A-list’ actress aggres- “ ‘You speak English
The worst career and someone said to
me, ‘I don’t know what your
sively pushing to diminish the
role of the Black female co-lead.”
so well!’ ”

microaggression [client] list is, but you’re Latino, ERYN BROWN

I’ve experienced so you’ll be fine. …’ ” EDWARD JAMES OLMOS
“It had to do with a co-star not
“Every inaccessible stage.”

or witnessed in LENA WAITHE

“White execs not understand-
the industry ing Black characters with
dreams that don’t involve bas-
ketball or singing.”
being able to accept that I had
complete creative control of
my character. The thought that
someone like me would [have
that] really upset them.”
BYRON ALLEN
“Unfortunately, the industry
does not have a shortage of
racism and sexism. There are
too many examples to list.”

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 55 M AY 31, 2023

 HOWARD UNIVERSITY
ive Black Greek letter organizations, including Alpha Kappa Alpha
F — of which Vice President Harris is a member — began at Howard,
which was founded in Washington in 1867 and is coed. Other notable
students: Anthony Anderson, La La Anthony, Sean “Diddy” Combs and
Taraji P. Henson.

Lynn Whitfield University, where I can walk in on

Emmy winner for outstanding
lead actress in a miniseries or
special for 1991’s The Josephine
Baker Story
“I knew what I wanted to do since
I was 5 years old,” says Whitfield
(right), a third-generation Howard
Bison who studied with the univer-
sity’s acclaimed theater program,
which also taught Phylicia Rashad,
Debbie Allen and Taraji P. Henson.
“So I said, it’s better for me to go
to Chocolate City [D.C.] to Howard
equal footing with my abilities and
my desire to learn and do my best.”
Charles King
Macro CEO and founder and pro-
ducer of 2018’s Sorry to Brother
You, which won the Independent
Spirit Award for best first feature
King chose his alma mater for a
number of reasons, “from the history
of Howard University and Howard
law school to the titans who went
there,” referring to the first Black

The Top HBCU Grads

Working in Hollywood
Historically black colleges and universities not only provided a strong educational
background for these hugely successful, award-winning industry insiders, but also a chance
to connect that paid off in long careers and opportunities to create with ‘no interference in
terms of someone evaluating me based on race or on a demographic’
BY CORI MURRAY

SPELMAN COLLEGE
pelman’s name is in honor of Mrs. Laura Spelman Rockefeller (and
S

IMAGES. ALLEN: TOMMASO BODDI/GETTY IMAGES. WASHINGTON: DIA DIPASUPIL/GETTY IMAGES. SPELMAN: CHRIS SHINN/COURTESY OF
WHITFIELD: GILBERT FLORES/VARIETY VIA GETTY IMAGES. HOWARD: SIPA USA/ALAMY STOCK PHOTO. KING: MONICA SCHIPPER/GETTY
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her antislavery parents, Harvey and Lucy Spelman), who founded

WRIGHT PRODUCTIONS. OWENS: COURTESY OF SUBJECT. PARKER: JOEL ZADAK. JACKSON: ANGELA WEISS/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES.
the college in 1881 as a female seminary school in Atlanta. Alice
Walker, Stacey Abrams and Keshia Knight-Pulliam have attended.

Danielle Deadwyler locals in the community. The energy

Actress, Till and The Harder
They Fall
“I love the energy that School Daze
has,” says Deadwyler (left), of the
movie based on Spike Lee’s experi-
ences at Morehouse College. She
not only grew up in Atlanta but also
attended what is informally known
as Morehouse’s sister school (events
between the two are referred to as
SpelHouse). “There is truth in the
way that folks who came from other
cities were engaging with Atlanta
that was there, the vibe of social
enjoyment, the cheekiness and
sneakiness of being that kind of
young, curious, messy human being
at that time. School Daze definitely
does it for me in that regard.”
Traci Blackwell
Head of targeted scripted TV
at Amazon
“There’s a joke about those who
went to Harvard and how they work
into the conversation that they

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 56 M AY 31, 2023

Supreme Court justice, Thurgood when I see a young person who
Marshall, as well as his own alumni is from an HBCU because it does
father and uncle. The award-winning resonate,” says the multihyphenate.
producer studied entertainment and “In fact, I just hired my new assistant
King
civil rights at the law school. “Frankly, from an HBCU, and of course she’s
the education I had and my under- from Howard University.”
graduate experience at Vanderbilt Allen adds, “I love that I was just
was great,” he says. “But I was look- bathed and birthed in my cultural
ing to have a different experience in identity at Howard, my dad’s alma
terms of connectivity to community, Allen mater. He had gone to dental school
in addition to a strong educational there. It was everything to have all
background. I knew Howard would these incredible Black professors,
provide me with both of those.” from Dr. Frank M. Snowden, who
wrote this incredible book Blacks in
Debbie Allen Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-
Actor, producer, director, Roman Experience, to Professor
actress, choreographer, six-time Eleanor Traylor, whom Harvard and
Emmy winner Yale had been trying to steal for the
“When I’m looking for who’s best for past 40 years. There’s so many pro-
the job, it’s always been who’s best fessors: Glenn Dixon, Joseph Harris.
for the role, however I would feel When I did the movie Amistad, those MOREHOUSE COLLEGE
remiss to say I don’t pay attention were my consultants.”
he all-male college that moved to Atlanta in 1879
T after being founded in 1867 in Augusta, Georgia,
counts Martin Luther King Jr., Spike Lee and Brian
Tyree Henry among its graduates.
n the three decades since School Daze and the equally influential TV series Samuel L. Jackson
A Different World were released, HBCUs, or historically black colleges and
Actor, Pulp Fiction, Coach Carter, The Avengers
universities, have seen a resurgence of much-needed attention. In 2019,
“The theater professors at Spelman [where Morehouse
Beyoncé’s Homecoming docufilm celebrated Black marching band and dance
students sometimes took classes] really encouraged
team culture, a pinnacle of any HBCU football game. The 2021 inaugura-
us to meet the business side of acting head on,” says
tion of Vice President Kamala Harris put her undergraduate university Howard
Jackson (above). “We had to go outside of the school
in the national spotlight; that same year, the Washington institution would
and find agents and to book professional acting gigs
rename its College of Fine Arts in honor of the late Chadwick Boseman, who
in and around Atlanta in theater, film and TV. We were
graduated there in 2000, with Phylicia Rashad as dean.
expected to maintain our creative and performance obli-
For HBCU alums working in Hollywood, there’s a connective thread of deep
gations to the Morehouse Spelman Players at the same
pride for their educational foundations. THR spoke with nearly 30 executives,
time. It was great real world training for us to learn what
producers, directors, actors and writers who collectively acknowledged how
it truly meant to be working actors.”
their collegiate experience best prepared them for the multifaceted demands of
careers in entertainment. While some have built formal alumni networks to pull
forward the next generation of Black creatives and thinkers, others nurture their
John David Washington
Actor, BlacKkKlansman and Tenet
personal connections, staying true to the African proverb, “Each one, teach one.”
“With the experience I have had on a Spike
Lee set, I call Morehouse Spike University
now,” explains Washington. “There’s not a lot of people
went to school in Cambridge, or to campus,” recounts Owens. “But who look like me, and when you do see someone and
Harvard. That’s how we are. That’s the timing didn’t work because we say, ‘Hey, did you work with Spike?,’ it’s a look, a nod
how proud we are that we went were in the AT&T merger. I said to and a laugh because you understand exactly what that
to [Spelman],” says Blackwell. “I my Spelman sisters, ‘We can’t get means. It’s a badge of honor I wear when I think about
Blackwell was there when Johnnetta B. Cole the company to donate, but what the umbrella Spike and all the talent he’s found and pro-
was president. We were taught by can we do?’ We created a sum- duced and given the chance to blossom.”
Alice Walker, author Pearl Cleage, mit that lasted two days during
director Julie Dash [the first African homecoming week. Five of us can Kevin Parker
American woman to have a feature show up as HBO executives, but I Talent manager, Artists First
Owens film, Daughters of the Dust, distrib- picked up the phone and said, ‘Hey, “I was at Morehouse in the mid-’90s,” recalls
uted theatrically] and Martin Luther Morehouse brother [Montrel McKay, Parker. “The music business is on fire in
King’s sister, Christine King Farris. who runs Issa Rae’s company], I Atlanta, plus all the athletes were coming down. Chris
The people who we not only met but met you last week. I need you to Tucker opened a club, and all the comics were going
were able to learn from is insane.” come to Atlanta for homecoming.’ through there. At the same time, I had a screenwriting
We had 50 SpelHouse [Spelman professor, Ray Grant, who was a stand-up. He took me
Natasha Foster Owens and Morehouse] individuals come to a comedy club, and it was over after that. I worked in
Senior vp production at HBO together. They flew themselves. a nightclub, but if I wasn’t there, I was in a comedy club.
“Someone asked me if HBO They participated because we said That time gave me a foundation to be in this business.
could make a corporate donation we needed help. It was the moniker And it was more in the way Morehouse gets you ready
to Spelman because they were that Spelman is known for: ‘Be a to be a professional in the world and you have to figure
building a technology building on choice to change the world.’ ” things out. It also gives you the confidence to do so.”

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 57 M AY 31, 2023

FLORIDA AGRICULTURAL
AND MECHANICAL
UNIVERSITY (FAMU)
AMU, or Florida A&M, was
F founded in 1887 in Jacksonville
as two separate colleges: one for
whites and one for Blacks, the lat-
ter of which would later move to
Tallahassee. Anika Noni Rose and
Will Packer are graduates.

Common
Actor, musician, Oscar winner
(for original song for 2014’s Selma)
and Emmy winner (2016’s 13th)
“When I was in high school, watch-
ing A Different World, they were
showing Black colleges in such
a positive light,” remembers
Common (right). “Hip-hop artists
were wearing African American
College Alliance hoodies, which
were super popular. Spike Lee had
released School Daze. All of that
was inspiring.
“But also, I was surely going to a
historically Black college because
my mother went to Central State
in Ohio. In my junior year, I went
on a Black college tour, and that
solidified it for me. Even though my
mother was saying, ‘You’re going to

HAMPTON UNIVERSITY
fter its 1868 founding in Hampton, Virginia, as the Hampton Normal and Agricultural
A Institute, one of its graduates, Booker T. Washington, would start Tuskegee Institute in
Alabama in 1881. Other grads include the mother of Martin Luther King Jr., Alberta Williams
King, NASA engineer Mary Jackson, DJ Envy and Good Morning America alum Spencer Christian.

Wanda Sykes learning and what it was preparing

Actress, producer and Emmy winner
(1999’s The Chris Rock Show)
“After I finished college,” says
Sykes (right), “one of my friend’s
fathers said, ‘I don’t know why you
went to that HBCU — you set your-
self back because people see that
degree and it doesn’t say the same
thing as the one from the University
of Maryland.’
“That hit me like, ‘Wow, this is our
own people who are downplaying
our colleges.’ You’ve been taught
that our product is inferior, and now
you’re trying to pass that on to us.
But respectfully, I would argue with
him that he was wrong. I knew what I
was getting, and I knew how amaz-
ing Hampton was, what we were
me for the rest of my life.”
Robi Reed
Reed Senior vp talent and casting at BET
and Emmy-winning casting director
(1995’s The Tuskegee Airmen)
One “fateful night” after meeting and
driving Spike Lee to a play where
Carter her friend, costume designer Ruth
Carter, was heading up wardrobe,
Reed says the director (who had just
finished making She’s Gotta Have It)
mentioned having friends in town who
wanted to meet up. “Ruthie and I said,
‘Cool,’ and those friends end up being
Giancarlo Esposito and Laurence
Fishburne,” says Reed of the seren-
dipitous evening. “Spike writes on the
back [of a postcard] his address and

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 58 M AY 31, 2023

 an HBCU,’ when I stepped on those
college campuses and just seeing
the people, I was like, ‘This is for me.
This is for me.’ ”
Staci R. Collins Jackson
Publicist and CEO,
The Collins Jackson Agency
“Having an HBCU degree did not
hinder me in my career until I was in
ROBERTSON/ALAMY STOCK PHOTO. NEAL: BRUCE GLIKAS/GETTY IMAGES. KEE: COURTESY OF SUBJECT. REED: AMANDA EDWARDS/FILMMAGIC. CARTER: JEFF
year to immediately start to let
everyone in regarding my sexual-
ity, but because I had leadership
roles on campus, there were
Jackson conversations happening in the
administration’s office about my
participation — especially when I
wanted to pledge to a fraternity,”
JACKSON STATE UNIVERSITY
he school that became Jackson College in 1899 (and
Brown
recalls Brown.
“But what I also learned in
T later graduated Morgan Freeman and NFL leg-

end Walter Payton) was founded in 1877 in Natchez,

Hollywood,” says Jackson. “I started that time — and this is what I
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Mississippi, as Natchez Seminary, part of the

in communications at Ebony and love about Black folks — I never
American Baptist Home Mission Society.
Jet magazines, where everyone experienced any of the direct
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is a Black executive — it was the harassment because Black women

visual equivalent of the offices in
Boomerang. But when I transitioned
from media to film and television in
PR, I absolutely realized that people
decided I was less than [because of
her HBCU degree].
“Mind you, I had been promoted
to be the vice president of Ebony/
Jet and then at Oprah Winfrey’s
Harpo Studios. But as I began work-
ing in film, I definitely had to prove
myself even after I already had those
two executive roles. In a way, I had
to start over. I don’t think my peers
ever had to do that.”
Karamo Brown
Host, The Karamo Show
and Queer Eye
“I had found the courage freshman
at FAMU surrounded themselves
around me and made sure nobody
said something [negative] to me.
They said, ‘We rock with you.
We love you.’
“So my experience was pretty
positive. This gave me a direct
path to going into the real world
and becoming [one of the] first gay
Black men on reality television, and
then going on to becoming the first Mia Neal
gay Black man to have a daytime Hairstylist, Oscar winner (2020’s Ma
talk show. I always knew there was Rainey’s Black Bottom) and Emmy winner
a protection that came from Black (2020’s Annie, Live!)
folks — particularly Black women, “I never would have gone to the makeup and wig
who wanted to see me succeed and apprenticeship program at Juilliard had I not been at
didn’t want to see my sexuality be Jackson State,” notes Neal. “I had two jobs while I was in
used as a tool to hurt me. And that’s Mississippi; one was working at MAC cosmetics. I had a
not true for everybody. It was just co-worker who had finished the Juilliard program. She
true for me.” highly suggested I apply, but I had never even heard of
the internship. So, because I was at Jackson State, I met
her. And that is what propelled my career from there.”

says, ‘Keep in touch.’ He says one day

we’re going to work together,” she
recalls. “Later, he sends me a script for
School Daze, and the following year,
HUSTON-TILLOTSON UNIVERSITY
we’re all on set in Atlanta.” n 1952, the merger of Tillotson Collegiate and

Ruth E. Carter
Costume designer, two-time Oscar
winner (for both Black Panther films)
“I am so grateful I had that HBCU
experience because I had no interfer-
ence in terms of someone evaluating
me based on race or on a demo-
graphic at the school. I am grateful I
was not blocked by Jim Crow,” says
Carter. “At Hampton, I directed A
Day of Absence by Douglas Turner
Ward, and it filled the theater. I never
even thought about, ‘Oh, this is for
the Black Student Union, who is 25
percent African American and people
of color and those are the people who
might attend.’ I was free to be me. It
was not based on my race. When I’m
on set now and I’m working with Ryan
Coogler or I’m talking to Spike Lee
about a project, I am free.”
INormal Institute (founded in 1875) and Samuel
Huston College (founded in 1876) would join the
schools in Austin and graduate the likes of Tuskegee
Airman Norman Scales Sr.
Jon Kee
Literary manager, Circle of Confusion
“When I think about Hollywood and diver-
sity, I don’t know if there was a true pipeline
for HBCUs prior to HBCU in L.A.,” says Kee, who earned
two internships through Entertainment Industry College
Outreach Program’s initiative HBCU in L.A. “I’ve been
around for six years now, and I would be in rooms with
executives, owners of companies, owners of agencies,
and I would say, ‘Yeah, I go to an HBCU in Houston and
they’d be like, ‘A C-U H-B-C what? What’s that? That
was just in 2018.”

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 59 M AY 31, 2023

 The mind behind the Conjuring universe and Insidious franchise talks his future with Jason Blum,
putting the final touches on his Aquaman sequel and opening doors for Asian talent in Hollywood

BY BRIAN DAVIDS • ILLUSTRATION BY NAZARIO GRAZIANO

AQUAMAN: JASIN BOLAND/WARNER BROS./COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION (2). WAN: RODIN ECKENROTH/WIREIMAGE. SAW: LIONS GATE/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. M3GAN: GEOFFREY SHORT/UNIVERSAL PICTURES/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. ANNABELLE: GREG
James Wan has become the example he never had.

SMITH/WARNER BROS. PICTURES/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. INSIDIOUS: FILMDISTRICT/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. MALIGNANT: RON BATZDORFF/WARNER BROS./COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. FAST: UNIVERSAL/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION (2).
Born to Malaysian Chinese parents, Wan immigrated
with his family from Malaysia to Western Australia
when he was 8, and by then he had already fallen in love
with film through Steven Spielberg and Tobe Hooper’s
supernatural horror classic Poltergeist (1982). That feature includes
something that would become a staple of Wan’s later work (more on
this later), but the journey to this point was by no means an easy one.
From left:
Wan’s hometown of Perth is one of the most remote capital cities in Amber Heard,
the world, and his childhood dream of becoming a mainstream genre James Wan,
Jason Momoa
director in Hollywood felt even more out of reach when he quickly and Willem
Dafoe on
realized that there were virtually no Asian filmmakers making studio the set of
genre films in the late ’80s and early ’90s. Aquaman
(2018).
Wan’s life forever changed when he met aspiring Aussie actor-
screenwriter Leigh Whannell at Melbourne’s RMIT University, and While finishing Aquaman also the magic of filmmaking in
their shared love of genre films would lead to their indie horror hit Saw and the Lost Kingdom, Wan, 46, general. I don’t think I was the
(2004). “From the first moment I met James Wan, I knew he was going talked with THR about when he appropriate age to see the film.
to be a successful film director,” Whannell recalls. “There was noth- felt he had cracked the code on It definitely scarred me for life
ing cocky or boastful about him. He simply had the quiet confidence the horror genre and reflected on and made me terrified of dolls
of someone whose work spoke for itself, and as someone who was not the unenviable task of finishing and clowns, but since then, I’ve
confident in himself at the time, I reveled in being near someone whose Furious 7 after the tragic death become extremely fascinated by
future success seemed inevitable.” of Paul Walker during produc- creepy dolls, as you can see in
As a director, Wan has gone on to release 10 films across horror, tion and the uphill battle he faced all my work.
action and superhero genres, grossing more than $3.7 billion at the when trying to cast Asian actors
worldwide box office. His résumé also boasts the Fast Saga’s highest- early in his career. In the late ’80s and early ’90s,
grossing film in Furious 7 (2015), and the highest-grossing DC film in there were virtually no studio film-
Aquaman (2018), and he co-created three of the most successful horror If you were to make your version makers who looked like you. Did
franchises of all time: The Conjuring, Saw and Insidious. Wan is keenly of The Fabelmans, what eye- that lack of examples give you any
aware that he has become that all-too-rare example and success story opening moviegoing experience pause about chasing this dream?
for budding Asian filmmakers, and he strives to clear a path for his from your childhood would you Definitely. It made me feel more
community whenever he can through his production company, Atomic likely dramatize? removed, and I already felt so
Monster, which is merging with Jason Blum’s Blumhouse Productions. Poltergeist left the biggest impres- removed from the rest of the
Actor Patrick Wilson, who shares a dozen credits with Wan, chalks sion on me, and it scared the hell world by living in Australia. Most
up the filmmaker’s success to one particular quality. “One of the most out of me. I was about 7 years old of the filmmakers that I grew
Wan-esque scenes to me is a simple scene in The Conjuring under the when I saw it in theaters, and I up idolizing are Americans, and
hood of a car. There’s no scare, it’s just character-building,” Wilson was still living in Malaysia, before the Chinese or Asian directors
says. “I’m sure many people wanted it cut, but James doesn’t work my family emigrated to Australia, that I admired made movies out
like that. He leads with his heart. He knows that no scare or action when I was 8. It made me realize of Hong Kong. So, as an immi-
sequence can make up for a lack of character setup.” the power of the horror genre, but grant with a Chinese Malaysian

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 60 M AY 31, 2023

As a producer and director, James Wan is at
the center of multiple franchises, including
Saw, Insidious, The Conjuring and Aquaman.
He recently launched a new franchise,
M3GAN, with creative partner Jason Blum.

Saw
In addition to the directing efforts below, the filmmaker’s s producing work has generated billions,
with The Conjuring universe, which includes spinoffs The Nun and Annabelle, topping $2 billion globally
$1.2B
1B
800M
600M
$103.9M
400M
$22.3M
200M
Saw Dead
(2004) Silence
(2007)
background who’s growing up
in Australia, I hoped that I could
turn that dream into a reality one
day, but I was really reaching for
the stars.
When did the idea for Saw enter
into the equation?
It was the mid-to-late ’90s, and
Leigh and I really wanted to
cut through the noise of all the
indie movies that were coming
out at that time, so we spent a
whole year thinking about story
ideas. And one day, as I was in
the shower, I thought, “What
about a movie with two people
stuck in a bathroom with a really
grungy toilet? They have no idea
how they got in there, and they’re
chained to opposite sides of the
room.” So I only knew the rough
setup, and then I knew how I
wanted the story to end with
Jigsaw, this person who put them
in that situation. And so I pitched
a really simple setup and finale
to Leigh, and he was like, “Oh,
wow. Let me think about it.” So he
went off, and he came back to me
with Saw.
Wan and Jason Blum (dressed as M3GAN) are merging their companies, Atomic Monster and Blumhouse; Wan completed Furious 7 after the sudden death of Paul Walker.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
James Wan’s directorial jackpots
$100.1M
$16.9M
Death Insidious
Sentence (2010)
(2007)
You and Whannell pooled your
money to create a Saw short. Once
you took that short around town,
a potential deal was contingent on
you being the director and Leigh
being lead actor.
We did a bunch of rounds around
town. There were studios and
producers that liked the poten-
tial of the project, but they didn’t
feel comfortable with me and
Leigh being attached to it. And
then Mark Burg, Oren Koules and
Gregg Hoffman saw the poten-
tial in it. They were the very first
people we met with, and they
were the ones to say, “We will give
you guys the opportunity to do
it. We’ll make it for a really low
budget so we can own the film,
and you guys can be a part of it.”
And Leigh and I just stepped out
of that meeting, saying, “Did
that really just happen? Our
first meeting in Hollywood, and
someone actually wants to make
our film.”
In 2004, Saw grossed $104 million
at the box office on a budget of
slightly more than $1 million. Did
$1.515B
$320.4M
$161.9M
The Insidious: Furious 7
Conjuring Chapter 2 (2015)
(2013) (2013)
your life immediately change in the
way that one might imagine?
When Saw became this main-
stream indie hit, life did change
in a big way. It put Leigh and I
into the spotlight as these two
young guys with genre film
ideas that were worth rolling
the dice on. So we were very
fortunate that our first movie
was such a big film and has gone
on to become one of the biggest
franchises ever, not just in the
horror genre, but Hollywood in
general. So we’re very thankful
for what the Saw franchise has
done for us.
Was the term “torture porn” a
thorn in your side for a long time?
Leigh and I didn’t just write a
shocking movie for the sake of
being an exploitation, schlocky
movie. There was a lot of thought
and craft put into the screenplay,
and so it felt like a derogatory
term to describe it. It was eventu-
ally used to describe the subgenre
that it became — and Saw was a
big part of that particular move-
ment — but I definitely wasn’t
62 M AY 31, 2023
The Conjuring 2
$1.148B
$321.8M
$34.9M
The Aquaman Malignant*
Conjuring 2 (2018) (2021)
(2016)
Source: Box Office Mojo. *Released day-and-date on HBO Max.
too excited about that term. But
now, in hindsight, I look back
at that time period with a little
bit more of a rose-tinted view.
SAW: LIONS GATE/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. CONJURING: NEW LINE CINEMA/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. BLUM: ALBERTO RODRIGUEZ/GA/THE HOLLYWOOD
Saw was very much a reflection
of the era in which it was made,
REPORTER VIA GETTY IMAGES. FAST: SCOTT GARFIELD/UNIVERSAL PICTURES/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. WHANNELL: ALBERT L. ORTEGA/GETTY IMAGES.
post-9/11. We felt that the movie,
in some strange way, was kind
of relevant to that sociopolitical
period of time. There was a lot of
torture going on in the world. So,
from a historical standpoint, I’m
OK with it.
In 2007, were you discouraged by
the back-to-back responses to the
movies you did after Saw — Dead
Silence and Death Sentence?
Yeah, I was still young, naive and
a bit ignorant, and I didn’t realize
that I was technically in direc-
tors jail after those two movies
did not do well financially. So
I just took a break to reassess
what direction I wanted my
career to go take, and Leigh and
I both realized that we needed
to go back to our indie roots. We
needed to do [a] Saw again to
rebrand ourselves and reinvent
ourselves in the same genre, but
in a different way. So we went
back to our love of haunted house
movies and classic ghost stories,
and that was how we came up
with Insidious.
In 2010, Insidious became one of
Blumhouse’s early low-budget suc-
cess stories, grossing $100 million.
What made the stars align?
Insidious was the first movie
that Jason Blum branded with
Blumhouse Productions, and we
really just wanted to again make
a movie that was fun to make.
We shot Saw for $700,000, and
then Lionsgate came in and gave
it postproduction money to soup
it up a little bit, making the final
budget $1.2 million. And with
Insidious, the budget was just over
a million, so it was a very low-
budget indie film. We didn’t have
the pressure of a studio behind us
at that point, and being allowed to
make it that way really translated
into the final product.
In 2013, The Conjuring became
your next critical and commercial
smash. Did you feel as if you’d
cracked the code at that point?
At that point, yes. Insidious was
a big turning point. I remem-
ber having a conversation with
producer Don Murphy, and, very
fleetingly, he said to me, “What
you did with Insidious is now what
you need to do on a studio film.”
So that stuck with me, and I just
decided to take the haunted house
element of Insidious that people
liked the most and make that my
next movie. And if you’re a fan of
the paranormal and the super-
natural, then you would’ve come
across stories of the Warrens at
some point in your life. So I knew
about their life story, and I fol-
lowed the rights, which led me to
[producer] Peter Safran and then,
eventually, to New Line [to make
The Conjuring].
Furious 7 (2015) was your first
foray into the big-budget action
genre, and midway through pro-
duction, the heart and soul of the
franchise, Paul Walker, died in a car
crash. What’s your perspective on
that experience now that you’re
eight years removed?
It definitely was the hardest
movie of my career. When the
passing of Paul Walker happened,
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
Wan (right) and Saw writer-star
Leigh Whannell.
we were like, “Do we just shut the
movie down for good?” But we
collectively felt like this movie
needed to be Paul’s legacy. So
we wiped our tears away and
sat around in editorial, going,
“All right, how do we do this?”
Thankfully, I had shot certain
stuff with Paul, like his ending
action stuff, but there were still
many bits missing in the film that
needed Paul. I shot only half of
what I needed from Paul before
his passing, and then we worked
with visual effects to salvage what
we had. To complete that movie
“with every film, I would
have to covertly insert someone
of asian heritage.”
now, in today’s world, with AI
technology, it’s so simple. But we
did not have that kind of technol-
ogy at our disposal. So we had
to really dig deep into our bag of
tricks to make it work.
Do you have an idea of when you
will finish post on December’s
Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom?
I hope to finish it up soon-ish.
We have the DGA thing [contract
negotiations] coming up next
month, and so there’s just some
stuff that we have to finish. It’s
a big movie. It has a lot of visual
effects and moving parts, but
we’re moving in that direction,
and I cannot wait for people to
see it. I think people are going to
be excited to see that this movie
is quite different from the first
movie in terms of tone. It’s a
little bit more serious, and we’re
dealing with issues like climate
63
change. We’re not afraid to lean
into that in a big way, because
the Aquaman comic book, even
way back when, has always been
environmentally conscious.
2021’s Malignant developed a cult
following despite very little press
for the film. Do you think that deci-
sion had a hand in creating such a
rabid fan base?
I would tell people that know-
ing as little as possible about
Malignant is the best way to go
into the film. We were also very
conscious about the trailer not
giving too much away. I purposely
wanted the movie to feel like
you were coming into a typical
James Wan-type horror film,
only to then pull the rug out from
underneath you toward the end
of the movie. And that either
turned people off or it made them
completely reassess the film in
a different light. So it got a very
strong reaction.
As your body of work shows, you
are now an example for aspir-
ing Asian and Asian American
filmmakers, a role model that
you never really had as far as
the studio system is concerned.
Do you strive to open doors
whenever possible?
A big struggle in the early part
of my career was convincing
producers and studios to let me
hire people of color — specifi-
cally, Asian actors. While I would
never ever get the outright no, I
would always hear, “We’ll think
about it,” and then nothing would
happen. So that would always
really piss me off. During Saw, I
had to find a way to do it covertly,
so I had Danny Glover [as a
detective], but his partner was
Ken Leung. With every film I’ve
made, I would have to covertly
insert someone of Asian heri-
tage, and it’s horrible that I had
to do that and that people didn’t
just willingly embrace it. But in
recent years, the perspective has
changed dramatically, and I’m
M AY 31, 2023
able to push for a lot of projects
that are geared in that direction.
Is your company Atomic Monster’s
merger with Blumhouse still inch-
ing its way to the finish line?
It is. These things just take a
long time. As you can imagine,
when you put two pretty defined
companies together, there’s a lot
crossing the T’s and dotting the
I’s to do, but we are getting closer.
Jason and I are just very much in
line. We really complement each
other. Jason is really great with
this stuff, and I’m really good
with that stuff. Hopefully, we
can yin and yang each other, and
we’re hoping to do a lot of cool
stuff together.
You produced 2022’s AI-centric
horror film M3GAN, and since then,
the conversation around AI has
only intensified, especially now
that it’s a sticking point in the WGA
contract talks. Where do you stand
on the subject?
If we don’t start talking about
it now and addressing it now,
this runaway train could be so
far down the track in four or five
years’ time that we may not be
able to put the genie back in the
bottle. What everyone is fight-
ing for is a good thing, and it has
ramifications outside our indus-
try in a big, big way.
Returning to The Fabelmans, there
have been a number of filmmakers
in recent years who’ve made semi-
autobiographical films about their
childhoods and love of cinema. Is
that something you would tackle?
I would. Coming from Malaysia
and then Australia, I grew up with
so many great horror ghost sto-
ries and superstitions, and I can
see those elements being worked
into my movies. I just love the
idea of a semi-autobiographical
movie that’s seen through the
lens of a genre horror film. So
that could be something inter-
esting down the line, but I’m not
quite there yet.
Interview edited for length
and clarity.
 Jason Segel, Steven Yeun, Mo Amer,
John Mulaney and Tyler James Williams
on learning to embrace the hives,
buy the BMW
and push your crazy puppet musical idea
even if everyone’s telling you it’s stupid

H O W T O G E T T O T H AT ‘ F U C K I T
By
L AC E Y R OS E

From left: Jason

Segel, Steven Yeun,
Mo Amer, John
Mulaney and Tyler
James Williams were
photographed May 7
at PMC Studios in
Los Angeles.

64
 Ph otog ra p h e d by
C H A R L E S W. M U R P H Y

, I ’ L L D O W H AT I WA N T ’ P L A C E
S
“So, same time next week?” Abbott
Elementary star Tyler James Williams
jokes with the others — Steven Yeun
(Beef), Jason Segel (Shrinking), Mo
Amer (Mo) and John Mulaney (John
Mulaney: Baby J) — after a particularly therapeu-
tic hour of conversation in early May. It is THR’s
annual Comedy Actor Emmy Roundtable, and
the five men gathered, a mix of top stand-up and
scripted talent, use the platform to swap stories
and speak candidly about the pressures of the
business, the splurges that they made (or urged
others to make) and what, exactly, has prompted
tears, hives and periods of necessary silence.
If a fan is to approach you all on the is out of your control. Stuff is just
street, what is he or she likely to coming at you and you’re trying
recognize you from? to field it as it’s happening. With
MO AMER I usually get, “I’m a huge Abbott, what I loved is that I knew
fan of your music.” I’m like, “I’m what I was doing. It wasn’t as
not DJ Khaled.” (Laughter.) much the creative, it was handling
STEVEN YEUN For me, it was Glenn the success, the press and all of
[from The Walking Dead] for a that. I felt much more grounded
long time. It’d be like, “I stopped and knew how to set boundaries
watching when you died,” which and when to tap out. I also knew
I don’t believe. Like, I finished all what I wanted to say and the type
the seasons. But now, after Beef of actor I wanted to be. Before, as
came out, they’re like, “Are you a kid, you’re just trying to make
the guy in Beef ?” And that’s fun. people happy.
TYLER JAMES WILLIAMS I got Chris SEGEL At the beginning, you’re
[from Everybody Hates Chris] for just trying to make it. You have
a long time, and will continue to. the pedal to the metal, creatively,
Usually, it’s just something that’s but the struggle I had was figur-
hollered from 15 feet behind me ing out how to adjust that so it
as they figure it out. I also get The became sustainable. At some
Walking Dead. People are still really point, I had to be like, “You’re OK,
upset with how that went. Really you can take a couple of months
upset. They’re happy to see me, off, you can think about what you
and then they’re like, “They did you want to do next.”
wrong.” But with Abbott, now is the WILLIAMS That’s a huge thing.
first time I’m getting “Mr.” in front
of anything. I’m getting Mr. Eddie. But there’s also a system in place
JASON SEGEL Wow. that’s telling you to keep going,
WILLIAMS So I’m an adult, y’all. strike while the iron is hot.
SEGEL I get Muppets a lot. The kids YEUN I felt that. After I left Walking
who were 10 when they saw it Dead, there was certainly a,
are in their 20s now, and that’s a “Here’s the road map.” But what
freaky experience. And Forgetting was nice for me — which I could
Sarah Marshall. It’s usually an odd have looked at negatively, but I
dynamic because the kids have ended up looking at positively stories. This hour special felt more STEVE N YE U N
seen Muppets, and the parents — was there wasn’t really a road confessional. You’ve said it was Beef (NETFLIX)
have seen me naked. (Laughter.) map for someone like myself. fun. Was it also cathartic?
So, it actually created a vacuum, JOHN MULANEY That was the
Tyler, you’ve said that you couldn’t where I could do what I wanted if challenge that I wanted to give
be happier that Abbott happened those situations were available to myself, to maybe be “vulner-
now and not five or 10 years ago. me. And I was very lucky that they able.” What I wanted to see is,
Why do you feel like you were were. So, I pivoted in ways that could I say this much about
ready for it now and not then? didn’t feel like tread territory. myself but still own the room
WILLIAMS I feel like anybody who and be an entertainer? That just
BEEF: ANDREW COOPER/NETFLIX.

starts really young, and Jason may John, your comedy historically seemed like more of a challenge,
be able to speak to this, so much has been about telling personal as opposed to more somberly or

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 66 M AY 31, 2023


“I had full-on hives [after Beef wrapped]. It was all over my body. I was like,
groundedly presenting the facts
of what this special’s about.
You sing a song at the top of the
special that hits quickly on all of
the recent drama, from drugs to
rehab, in your life. The last line is,
“Likability is a jail.” Can you talk
about what that means to you?
MULANEY I don’t think people set
out to be likable, I think they put
themselves out there in some
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
way and, speaking for myself,
they enjoy the feedback that oth-
ers relate to [what they’re doing
or saying]. It starts off, “Oh, I
must be onto something,” or,
“There’s something about me
these people get” — I find that
one most dangerous. When they
don’t get you, then that’s phase
two, and you go, “Oh, I like the
‘What the fuck is happening?’ ”
positive, but why aren’t they
getting this part? Why did they
miss this aspect?” Then, if people
are disappointed in a direction
you take, I wouldn’t say that’s
hard because it’s very amusing
at first because it’s so parental,
like, “We’re disappointed in you.”
It’s just an odd feeling because I
didn’t know we had that kind of
relationship. The thing I found
doing the tour was this idea of
“I’m not going to people-please as
much in life” is all great and it’s
very liberating, but it’s interest-
ing to see that when you stop
people-pleasing, some people are
not pleased. Like, not everyone
will just applaud it.
You recently guested on Bupkis,
your pal Pete Davidson’s show,
and, again, you’re playing this
post-rehab version of yourself.
MULANEY If you go through my
work, most of my television is
me playing myself on friends’
shows. (Laughter.)
It also seemed to fit into this
repackaging of you — or of who
the audience thought was you.
If likability is jail, how conscious
and freeing is showing this
other side?
MULANEY We’ll see. Because am I
still doing the same thing? Am
I trying to communicate, “Hey,
there’s a lot more going on with
me, you all get it now?” Am I still
looking for that? Of course I am.
AMER But it’s also outrageous to
think you’re going to be the same
person. You grow, you go through
different experiences — fam-
ily challenges, life challenges. I
think about Will Smith, about
this likability, this box that you’re
in the whole time and it’s not
67
sustainable. Something’s got to
give at some point.
SEGEL It goes back to the thing
of taking time to think, taking
little pauses, because, especially
in comedy, if something goes
well, there’s a system in place to
encourage you to repeat that.
AMER Yes.
SEGEL And it becomes a facsimile
of a facsimile and diminishing
returns until it crashes into a wall
and then you turn around, and
everyone who was telling you to
do more has jumped off the train
already. (Laughter.) I think gener-
ally the reason the first thing
worked is because it was some-
thing honest, an honest reflection
of where you were at the time.
And then it becomes increas-
ingly less effective because it’s
no longer honest. So, those little
pauses are where you’re supposed
to reflect on, “OK, where am I
now?” Forgetting Sarah Marshall
is about a breakup because that
was about as sophisticated as I
was at 24 years old. But if you’re
still making movies about being
afraid of girls at 35, you see it, you
know what that looks like, it’s not
working anymore.
MULANEY I don’t know if you
(to Amer) felt this with your first
stand-up special, but you basically
have [age] zero to 25 to ruminate
on things and come up with a sen-
sibility and figure out the jokes
you like. So your first special is
the first 20-odd years of your life.
And then your second one is one
year, and it was made while you
were mainly touring.
AMER That’s a really great point.
For me, I was always explaining
myself. It was, “Wait, you were
born in Kuwait, but you came
to Texas when you were 9. So,
you’re Kuwaiti?” I’m like, “No,
I’m not Kuwaiti. My parents are
Palestinian.” “Wait, how come
you’re not Kuwaiti? You were born
there. I don’t get it.” I was like,
“I’m fucking tired of these ques-
tions.” So, the whole first special
is going to be answering all of
your questions, and then I just
want to be a comedian.
M AY 31, 2023
Jason, you seem to like to test
the limits of your likability in
your work. You even urged the
Shrinking writers to have your
character behave pretty poorly …
SEGEL Well, here is my experience
in life: I’m flawed. I have stuff that
I’ve done that I’m not proud of,
and I have friends and family who
know these things and still love
YEUN
me. My acting idol when I was
young was Kermit the Frog, and
then that gave way to Tom Hanks
and Jimmy Stewart. It’s the same
style of acting, as a surrogate. I
am you on this journey, so put
all of your stuff onto me. There’s
another type of acting that’s aspi-
rational, they’re way cooler than
you, like George Clooney. I don’t
watch him and think, “That’s
me.” I think that’s who I aspire
to be. So, as long as I’m playing it
like I’m all of us, and, “God, look
at this fucking terrible thing I’m
doing,” people will be like, “Oh,
I’ve done stuff like that.”
AMER A hundred percent. You also
don’t know where the line is until
you cross it, right? Anytime I was
fearful about something in the
show, [it was because] it was so
personal, it was scary. There was
one scene where I literally broke
down. It was about my father
being tortured, and about dealing
with that and suppressing that
in the series. I thought, “Oh man,
I didn’t mourn this in my actual
life. Whoops.” I’m walking off and
nobody can even look you in the
eye. Years ago, Dave [Chappelle]
told me, “Be so honest that it’s
hard to make eye contact with
you,” and I didn’t get it until that
moment. It makes me emotional
just thinking about it.
Steven, I’ve heard you and your co-
star Ali Wong say that you broke
out in hives after Beef wrapped.
YEUN Full-on hives. (Laughter.)
You’re able to laugh about it now,
but did you recognize what was
happening at the time?
YEUN Surprisingly, I laughed when
it happened. It was all over my
body. I was like, “What the fuck is

happening?” (Laughter.) To echo
Tyler’s sentiment from earlier, I
am grateful I came to a character
like Danny now. Even five, six
years ago, I would’ve totally bailed
on that dude.
What would that have looked like?
YEUN Like me playing a caricature
of Danny, in which my perfor-
mance was a slight wink to the
audience that this is not me.
SEGEL That’s right.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
T Y L E R JA M E S W I L L I A M S
Abbott Elementary (ABC)
68
“With Abbott, I
felt much more
grounded and
knew how to set
boundaries and
when to tap out. I
also knew what I
wanted to say and
the type of actor
I wanted to be,”
says Williams.
YEUN But instead, I’m like, I will
be a proxy for this character and
this experience because we don’t
throw that away. And I think that
was the hives, because I’m also
human and I also want to be liked.
And every day was walking onto
set being like, “Ah, Danny is so
fucked up. He’s doing some gnarly
things, but can I find a way to feel
the feeling of why someone would
do something like this?” That was
an interesting exercise. I was just
M AY 31, 2023
holding a lot in, and when I left, I
let it go. The shame.
WILLIAMS I remember having [a
version of] that with you (to Yeun)
when we did my last scene of
The Walking Dead. I remember
that day, not wanting to leave
that show and feeling shame for
feeling that. Because as an actor,
you go from project to project and
it’s just part of the world, so you
should be used to working with
people and then just detaching.
And it was a struggle that day. But
then that became the thing. After
we shot it, they called cut and I
just broke down.
You collapsed?
WILLIAMS Yeah, it was a whole
thing. And [Yeun] was a really
good guy about it.
YEUN Dude, the whole scene was
you saying, “Don’t let me go.”
WILLIAMS Yeah, you’re in this
moment and everything you’ve
been feeling all day, you didn’t
realize that was the point. The
point was to get you right there to
that time and not judge it and just
let it be what it is [for the scene].
I didn’t realize that until we were
out the door.
I’m curious, why do you think that
one felt different?
WILLIAMS I think that show,
particularly for me, didn’t feel
like a transient show. It felt like
something where I made real con-
nections with real people.
YEUN That was a family show.
Looking back, what felt, at the
time, like the biggest risk?
SEGEL After How I Met Your
Mother ended, I didn’t know
what I wanted to do next. I really
wondered if I was actually good
enough to do drama. I took a
movie called The End of the Tour
to play David Foster Wallace.
The degree of difficulty of it not
looking like a Saturday Night Live
sketch, when you get the glasses
and the bandanna and you’re say-
ABBOTT: ABC/GILLES MINGASSON. SHRINKING: PATRICK MCELHENNEY/APPLE TV+.
ing the lines, felt so high. I also
had no system of prep because
you prep differently for comedy.
There was a lot of improv in how
we came up, and these were big
chunks of dialogue. I literally just
played in my head, “What would
Edward Norton do?” I got a dialect
coach and I did all these things
that I heard you do if you’re a real
actor. But man, I was scared …
John, I imagine going from being
a relatively anonymous writer on
Saturday Night Live to fronting a
sitcom, Fox’s 2014 Mulaney, with
your name in its title felt risky?
MULANEY Very anonymous.
(Laughs.) I think I thought that
I was bringing a sensibility that
was, I don’t know, more widely
appreciated. And then I was also
trying to turn that on its head by
doing a multicam, like, “Look, we
can really make this form weird
and interesting again.” There
were a lot of challenges. And I
really suffered from high self-
esteem at that time. (Laughs.)
But your initial pitch for the show
was very different, no?
MULANEY Yeah, there was another
version at NBC called Mulaney
Don’t Drink, which was about me
getting sober at 23. It was based
on the time in my life when I got
sober at 23 and had two room-
mates and was just trying to
figure out: What does a good per-
son do? That was an actual part
of my life, or a pointless gauntlet
I threw down in front of myself.
That was the NBC show, and there
was really something lost when
I, on the advice of others higher
up, took that out. But I take full
responsibility. I lost the thread
that made it something.
SEGEL But how are you supposed to
know at 23? I have so many things
in my career where I’m like, “Oh
God, I should have … whatever.”
And it’s like, how the fuck was I
supposed to know?
MULANEY Well, yeah. And Saturday
Night Live, people talk about
how high-stakes and stressful it
is — it’s also the most protected
environment in entertainment.
We don’t get notes. I saw Jeff
Zucker maybe once when he was
the president of NBC. Nothing
reached us, so to suddenly be the
writer, producer and star of a
network pilot, let alone a series,
it was suddenly being the captain
of a cruise ship. I was like, “I have
to worry about personnel, menu
binders, meals for people, hours,
how late everyone’s there.”
Would you consider taking another
stab at a semi-autobiographical
comedy à la Mo in today’s market?
THR Emmy Roundtables highlight select artists and TV creators whose
work is thought to be in Emmy contention by the editors of The Hollywood Reporter.
Look for an extended video version of this Comedy Actor Roundtable
on THR.com/Roundtables.
MULANEY My immediate thought into this club at 17 and he said,
was, “Oh, should I?” (Laughs.) But “You’re going to be successful if
I’m not sure. I’ve enjoyed doing it you do this, this and this, but it’s
through stand-up. And one thing going to take you 20 years to get
I learned from doing it was that there.” I was like, “I’m in.” It gave
I wasn’t sure what my story was. me something to work toward.
Like, what exactly am I bringing And there were stages. You start
to everyone and do they need it? learning and growing, and there’s
pain. Lots of pain. Post-9/11, I’d
Mo, you’ve said that nothing in [hear a lot of], “Hey, you’re really
your career happened overnight. talented, if you could just change
What had been the feedback for so your name.” But I was so focused
long and when did it change? on being myself.
AMER I had a great mentor,
Danny Martinez, at the Comedy Tyler, you recently said, “I’m in a
Showcase in Houston. I walked phase in my career where I’m doing
things for me now.” When was that
JA SO N S E G E L
not the case and how did it shift?
Shrinking (APPLE TV+)
WILLIAMS I think for a while I was
doing things just to survive. I
think one of the hard parts of
finding success young is then
you’re thrown into the “do you
have staying power” argument. I
was just trying to keep the train
moving, which eventually every-
one figures out is not sustainable.
But after taking those periods of
silence, I was able to figure out
“There was a period in my life where things
were firing in both movies and TV, and
everyone was telling me how well it was
going, and I was really unhappy.”
SEGEL
what I actually wanted to do. If
you don’t get to “fuck it, I do what
I want,” eventually you burn out.
When do the rest of you feel like
you got to the “fuck it, I’ll do what I
want” phase, assuming you have?
WILLIAMS By the way, [Steven] is the
inspiration for my “fuck it, I do
what I want.” Every time I’m like,
“I feel like I should do this,” or I
have people on my team saying,
“You should go this way,” I think
about Steven and I’m like, “Steven
would just be like, ‘Nah, I’m going
to wait.’ ” And I’ve admired that
about his career since leaving The
Walking Dead. I feel as if when you
choose something or I see you do
something, it’s because you’re
truly inspired by it and want to.
YEUN Thanks, man. I think that’s
partly true. I think where I can’t
take most of that credit is, again,
there’s no road map for someone
like myself, at least for me before.
And so there were very easy no’s.
It was like, “Do you want to do
the thing that everybody’s seen
someone like you do?”
AMER “Would you like to play
terrorist number seven?”
No, I’m good.
YEUN Yeah, right, and then a script
would appear to say, “Here’s a
shot at not doing that.” There was
a part of “fuck it, I’ll do what I
MO AMER
Mo (NETFLIX)
want,” but there was also part of
it that was like, “I’ll show you.” So,
I was still bound to the expecta-
tions of others, and I still am. I
wish I was a total “fuck it, I’ll do
what I want” guy. But for me, I’ve
just been very fortunate that for
every obvious door, there was a
tiny hidden one that I could go,
“Oh, I’ll do that.”
SEGEL There was a period in my
life and career around the last
couple of years of How I Met
Your Mother where things were
firing in both movies and TV,
and everyone was telling me
how well it was going and I was
really unhappy. And so I then
had to grapple with why? What’s
off about this equation? I think
the thing that I was confronted
with is that it’s really great to
make the decision of “fuck it, I do
what I want,” but unfortunately
there’s a system of permission
“Post-9/11, I’d [hear
a lot of], ‘Hey, you’re
really talented,
if you could just
change your name.’
But I was just so
focused on being
myself,” says Amer.
in place where people will go,
“We don’t give a shit [what you
want to do].” Like, “Good for you,
man.” (Laughter.)
AMER “Neeext.”
SEGEL I had to fight hard to put
a Dracula puppet musical at the
end of a movie. All my ideas are
[often met with] people being
like, “No, that’s stupid.” So, it’s
about summoning the will to
say, “OK, shit, I have an idea and
I believe in it and it won’t leave
me alone and now I’m going to do
the three or four years of fight-
ing through all the permissions
and pushing the boulder up the
hill.” And then sometimes you
get the boulder right to the top of
the hill and they still say no, and
three years are gone. It’s tricky.
Part of the equation is getting to
the point where you ask yourself,
“What is worth trading my time
for? What am I going to give over
nine months or three years for?”
Because I look back at the ones I
didn’t like and I’m like, “That was
not worth age 28.” (Laughter.)
Tyler, you’ve been invested in the
working experience of the child
actors on your show. You’ve said,
“Abbott in general has been thera-
peutic for me. I needed to know
that I could influence it being done
differently.” What would have been
helpful to see or hear at that age?
WILLIAMS “Nobody knows what
they’re doing. It’s not just you.
Everyone’s scared and no one
knows if this is going to work.”
MULANEY But what a rush it is to
pretend you know what it is you’re
doing! (Laughter.)
Your Abbott co-star, Janelle
James, recently told a story about
permanently relocating to L.A. and
needing a car after Abbott scored
a second season. She said she’d
planned to buy a Mazda, until you
chimed in. According to her, you
said, “You cannot pull up to season
two in a Mazda.” I’ll stop there, is
this story tracking for you?
WILLIAMS Yeah, yeah, it definitely
tracks. (Laughs.)
MO: COURTESY OF NETFLIX. BABY: RUSSELL PRICE/NETFLIX.
And then you took her to some
dealerships, and she ended up
with, what, a BMW?
WILLIAMS Yeah, I think so.
AMER I would’ve taken her to
Mercedes, but it’s fine. (Laughter.)
At what point in your career did
someone pull you aside and tell
you something similar? That it’s
OK, you’re successful, you can
treat yourself or have a little fun?
WILLIAMS That’s why I think we had
that conversation. It didn’t happen
for me. And with Janelle, specifi-
cally, because the minute we saw
the pilot, it was like, “You’re going
to be a huge thing.” But you spend
so much of your career in this place “ When you stop people-pleasing,
of being scared that the bottom
will fall out. And it felt like there some people are not pleased.
was a nice opportunity to let her
know, “No, I think this one’s stable.” Like, not everyone will just applaud it.”
Like, based on my history and what
I’ve seen, this is stable enough that MULANEY
you don’t have to spend the major-
ity of the ride scared. That was the
thing I was trying to get her to as
fast as possible.
SEGEL Good for you.
WILLIAMS Because you can spend
four years of a six-year show
scared it’s going to get canceled
and never actually enjoy it.

For the rest of you, did anyone pull

you aside and urge you to stop and
spoil yourself a bit?
YEUN I was scared that the bottom
was going to drop out for a while.
SEGEL I’m still like that. I mean,
I’m not even joking. Honestly, I’m
still quite scared of it.
YEUN Same.
AMER But you work so hard, it’s
good to spoil yourself some-
times. For me, it’s about comfort,
especially as much as I travel
as a comic. So, I splurge on not
touching my bags. I don’t want to
carry these fucking things. And
great restaurants. It’s like, “Please
know who I am, please.” (Laughs.)
Before we go, what have you all not
done that you’d still love to do?
SEGEL I’d like to play a villain.
Part of my self-awareness is that
I know I walk the line between
charming and creepy and I often
fall on charming, but I’d like to tip
the other way.
YEUN Danny was a hard left turn
for me in a really fun way and I
loved it. So, I don’t know.
Well, your next project is a giant
Marvel movie …
SEGEL Cooool!
YEUN Yeah, Jake Schreier, who did
episodes of Beef, got the gig to
direct [Thunderbolts] and then he
saw me for this role and I read the
role and I was like, “This is actu-
ally a really interesting role, I’d be
down to explore this.” I think it’s
less about now checking things
off a bucket list and more looking
at an experience.
Are you ready to experience all
that comes with being part of a
Marvel project?
YEUN Sometimes I’ll have conver-
sations with friends who are like,
“Do you know what you’re doing?”
And I’m like, “Yeah, we’re mak-
ing a movie.” And they’re like, “Do
you know what you’re doing?” I try
not to take that in because I think
that’s the trap. The trap is to look
at that thing in the context of how
society might view that thing. In
the immediate, I’m just making
a movie. Putting it out is a whole
other thing that I’m going to have
JOHN MULANEY
John Mulaney: Baby J (NETFLIX)
to prepare for afterwards.
MULANEY Is the money as good as
we’d all hope, or was it slightly
disappointing? (Laughter.)
YEUN I’m not going to go there.
How about the rest of you?
WILLIAMS A lot of the things I’ve
done have been likable, and I’d like
to explore the unlikable. But then,
all my favorite things I’ve ever
done came about because I wasn’t
thinking about that thing. That’s
what happened with Abbott. In the
middle of the pandemic, I think
I was at home, just high, eating
chips, and it popped up. So I’m
just really having fun right now
with what comes.
And you, John?
AMER More babies, John?
MULANEY Yeah, of course. (Laughs.)
Before I die, I’d like to write one
film as good as Searching for Bobby
Fischer, or any of those films I saw
as a kid that really packed a punch
and just got life right. If I could do
that once, I’d be very happy.
And then cast all these guys.
MULANEY Absolutely. Chess mas-
ters, all of us. (Laughter.)
Interview edited for length
and clarity.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 71 M AY 31, 2023

 ACTING

20 Scene-Stealers
Who Broke Through
In a season filled with shows boasting ensembles led by A-listers — or series packed with guest
actors galore — it was often the supporting players who caught our attention. The performers
reflect on their characters, the best advice from their shows’ creatives, how their onscreen
personas would lead their own spinoffs and more
BY T Y L ER C OAT E S

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 72 M AY 31, 2023

 2023
EMMY SEASON

SUPPORTING
ACTORS

THR’S 2023
SUPPORTING CLASS
Selfies (*unless otherwise indicated)
were taken by:

TOP ROW
From left: GaTa* (Dave), Morfydd Clark
(The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power),
Paul Walter Hauser (Black Bird),
Aminah Nieves (1923), Joel Kim Booster*
(Loot), Haley Lu Richardson (The
White Lotus), Alan Ruck (Succession),
Danielle Pinnock* (Ghosts)

MIDDLE ROW
From left: Edy Modica* (Jury Duty),
David Gyasi* (The Diplomat), Jackie Hoffman
(Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies),
Young Mazino* (Beef), Annie Potts*
(Young Sheldon)

BOTTOM ROW
From left: Harvey Guillén* (What We
Do in the Shadows), Lisa Ann Walter
(Abbott Elementary), Michael Urie
(Shrinking), Vella Lovell (Animal Control),
Matt Smith* (House of the Dragon),
Simone Kessell (Yellowjackets),
Ken Marino* (Party Down)

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 73 M AY 31, 2023

 2023
EMMY SEASON
SUPPORTING
ACTORS
JOEL KIM BOOSTER
Loot (APPLE TV+)
My character summed up in one
sentence Overachieving gay
bully with an impeccable sense
of style. The part of my character
I relate to the most Deep-seated
and far-reaching insecurity that
manifests as near-constant snark.
And the style. Show on which
I’d love to guest star Industry. I
understand roughly 30 percent
of what they’re talking about, but
I’m still riveted. The last celebrity
who had me truly starstruck The
first and only time I ever met
Julia Roberts, my nose literally
started to bleed.
MORFYDD CLARK
The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of
Power (Prime Video)
The part of my character I relate
to the most She has to learn to
control her temper. And the part
I don’t Probably being an immor-
tal, royal, elven warrior/sorceress
who’s older than the moon!
What a spinoff for my character
might look like She had a pretty
dramatic relationship with her
uncle, Fëanor, in her youth —
that would be fun to explore.
GATA
Dave (FX/HULU)
My character summed up in one
sentence Lively in spirit and a pos-
itive opportunist. The best note
from my director Jeff Schaffer told
me “GaTa” stands for “Greatest
Actor That’s Acting,” and that
really boosted my confidence. My
go-to snack on set Peanut butter
and jelly sandwiches.
1 Alan Ruck as Connor Roy on HBO/Max’s Succession. 2 Aminah Nieves as Teonna Rainwater on Paramount+’s 1923. 3 Lisa Ann Walter as Melissa Schemmenti on ABC’s Abbott Elementary.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
1 2
HARVEY GUILLÉN
What We Do in the Shadows
(FX/HULU)
The best note from my direc-
tor [When shooting] the pilot,
Taika Waititi said, “Let’s do a ‘fun
run,’ ” meaning we could improv
the scene. I said, “Yay, funsies!”
And he said, “Yeah — funsies!”
So now on set, we always have
a funsies take. What a spinoff
for my character might look like
Buffy the Vampire Slayer — but
this time it would be a queer,
plus-size Latino as our hero! The
last celebrity who had me truly
starstruck Catherine O’Hara, and
Jennifer Coolidge — with both, I
was frozen in awe.
DAVID GYASI
The Diplomat (NETFLIX)
My character summed up in one
sentence He’s comfortable in
many different forums — mak-
ing him one of, if not the most,
knowledgeable person in the
room. The part of my character I
relate to the most His heart, pas-
sion and drive. And the part I don’t
His political affiliation. My go-to
snack on set Ketobomb — dark
chocolate and peanut butter!
PAUL WALTER HAUSER
Black Bird (APPLE TV+)
The part of my character I relate to
the most Being from the Midwest.
And the part I don’t Feeling
entitled to women. What a spinoff
for my character might look like
It might look like me having a
mental breakdown. Show on which
I’d love to guest star Selling Sunset.
Not a joke. I’d be a good SNL host.
74
JACKIE HOFFMAN
Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies
(PARAMOUNT+)
My character summed up in one
sentence The angry one. The part
of my character I relate to the most
The anger. And the part I don’t
Not being able to talk a lot. What
a spinoff for my character might
look like The angry one that gets
to talk a lot.
SIMONE KESSELL
Yellowjackets (SHOWTIME)
My character summed up in one
sentence A self-professed spiri-
tual healer in dreamy caftans
who should probably be back on
her meds. The best note from
my director “Lottie is like a cool
Jesus,” and, “Try not to walk like
a model.” What a spinoff for my
character might look like It would
be set in an institution of sorts
— One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
meets Euphoria.
VELLA LOVELL
Animal Control (FOX)
The part of my character I relate to
the most I am also a total people-
pleaser and want everyone to
like me, and I am also obsessed
with animals. And the part I don’t
Honestly, I relate to most of her!
More than any other character
I’ve ever played. The last celeb-
rity who had me truly starstruck
I spotted Quinta Brunson and
Ayo Edebiri at the Spirit Awards
hugging and chatting. I wanted to
go up to them to say how big a fan
of both of them I am, but instead
chose the classy move of running
the other way.
M AY 31, 2023
3
KEN MARINO
Party Down (STARZ)
The part of my character I relate to
the most I am eager to please, I am
emotionally tender and I am phys-
ically beautiful. Show on which
I’d love to guest star Vanderpump
Rules, but as Ron Donald working
PREVIOUS SPREAD: GATA: MATTHIAS CLAMER. PINNOCK: JACK WALLACE. GYASI: ELÈNA GYASI. GUILLÉN: JEN ROSENSTEIN. BOOSTER: NELSON HUANG. MARINO: JESSICA BROOKS. MAZINO: AMANDA LIM. MODICA: CHARLES SYKES/BRAVO VIA GETTY IMAGES. POTTS: RICH POLK/
at TomTom. Ron would love to
get involved in “Scandoval” and
would probably destroy TomTom
from the inside unintentionally.
The last celebrity who had me
truly starstruck I idolized Henry
GETTY IMAGES FOR IMDB. SMITH: AMANDA EDWARDS/WIREIMAGE. REMAINING HEADSHOTS: COURTESY OF SUBJECT. THIS PAGE: SUCCESSION: COURTESY OF HBO. 1923: EMERSON MILLER/PARAMOUNT+. ABBOTT: ABC/GILLES MINGASSON.
Winkler as the Fonz so much;
when I got the chance to work
with him on Childrens Hospital, I
ended up with three reverse mort-
gages. The man is smooth.
YOUNG MAZINO
Beef (NETFLIX)
The part of my character I relate
to the most I relate to Paul’s
existential dread. And the part I
don’t I can’t rock gold chains like
he can. The best note from my
director “Keep swinging the tree
branch like that — looks great.”
What a spinoff for my character
might look like Paul becomes a
professional Muay Thai fighter
in Phuket and works part time at
a local marijuana farm. Show on
which I’d love to guest star Naked
and Afraid.
EDY MODICA
Jury Duty (FREEVEE)
My character summed up in one
sentence Jeannie is the girlie you
meet in line for the dressing room
at Target who makes you feel like
you can live your truth! What a
spinoff for my character might
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 2023
EMMY SEASON
SUPPORTING
ACTORS look like The Sopranos, but it’s
Jeannie working as a Forever 21
manager at the Palisades Mall.
Last show I binge-watched I
watched Couples Therapy on
THE TV Showtime in one sitting, and I
PERFORMER think I’m a licensed therapist now.
WHO
AMINAH NIEVES
INSPIRED ME
JOEL KIM BOOSTER: 1923 (PARAMOUNT+)
My character summed up in one
sentence She is who our ancestors
warned you about: the brilliant,
vivacious seed who forces its way
through the cement-like soil,
sprouting even in the toughest
of droughts. The best note from
Margaret Cho
my director “Don’t work harder
HARVEY GUILLÉN: than you need to, and don’t hurt
yourself quicker than you can
heal.” The last celebrity who
had me truly starstruck Meeting
Gil Birmingham, who plays
Rainwater in Yellowstone, was a
full-circle moment.
Amy Sedaris
DANIELLE PINNOCK
DAVID GYASI:
Ghosts (CBS)
My character summed up in one
sentence A fame-obsessed hot
mess with a heart of gold, a fabu-
lous Prohibition-era jazz singer
and Jason Momoa’s biggest fan.
Show on which I’d love to guest
Blair Underwood
star The White Lotus. I’m trying to
EDY MODICA AND be a wealthy Black lady who buys
HALEY LU RICHARDSON:
the resort only to bulldoze it so
it can become a Burlington Coat
Factory. The last celebrity who had
me truly starstruck I went to the
Grammys for the first time this
year. Adele told me I was beauti-
ful and offered me hand sanitizer.
Amanda Bynes Beyoncé said hello to me and
shook my hand. I almost flatlined.
KEN MARINO:
1 2
Alan Alda (on M*A*S*H)
“I got the chance to work
with him on Wanderlust,
and was delighted to find out he
is as nice as he is talented.
Fun fact: He’s not actually a
surgeon, which I learned when he
refused to take my appendix out.”
1 Simone Kessell as Lottie Matthews on Showtime’s Yellowjackets. 2 Young Mazino as Paul Cho on Netflix’s Beef.
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
ANNIE POTTS
Young Sheldon (CBS)
My character summed up in one
sentence Sassy, salty, sweet
Southerner. The best note from my
director “Less is better.” Last show
I binge-watched The Crown for
the second time — so good as I’m
working in London right now. It’s
so beautifully acted, written and
directed. Show on which I’d love to
guest star Hacks or Bad Sisters.
HALEY LU RICHARDSON
The White Lotus (HBO/MAX)
The part of my character I relate
to the most The desperation and
hunger for fulfillment. And the
part I don’t She’s very, very lost. My
go-to snack on set Hummus and
veggies. They had a lot of eggplant
and raw fennel in Sicily, which
paired surprisingly well with
hummus. What a spinoff for my
character might look like Girls.
ALAN RUCK
Succession (HBO/MAX)
The best note from my direc-
tor When director Mark Mylod
suggested that I act more presi-
dential. What a spinoff for my
character might look like Willa and
Connor in a remake of Green Acres.
Last show I binge-watched Poker
Face. Show on which I’d love to
guest star Poker Face.
MATT SMITH
House of the Dragon (HBO/MAX)
The part of my character I relate to
the most His love for his brother.
And the part I don’t His hate for
76 M AY 31, 2023
his brother. Last show I binge-
watched Jury Duty — in one full
day. A knockout. Show on which
I’d love to guest star Peep Show.
Any scene with Mark Corrigan, Jez
Usborne or Super Hans.
MICHAEL URIE
Shrinking (APPLE TV+)
My character summed up in one
sentence On the surface, it seems
like everything goes Brian’s way
— in fact, that’s his mantra —
but underneath his relentless
positivity, he frets that something
actually might not go his way. Last
show I binge-watched Jury Duty!
A mock reality/improv show that
makes me cry? Don’t mind if I do!
Show on which I’d love to guest star
Star Trek — any kind of Star Trek.
Any role. Please cast me.
LISA ANN WALTER
Abbott Elementary (ABC)
The part of my character I relate
to the most The Sicilian-ness:
working all angles to get deals,
protecting those I love and abso-
YARISH/©NICKELODEON NETWORK/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. YELLOWJACKETS: KAILEY SCHWERMAN/SHOWTIME. BEEF: COURTESY OF NETFLIX. BOOSTER: ROBIN L MARSHALL/GETTY IMAGES. GUILLÉN: AMY SUSSMAN/GETTY
GIRL: CRAIG T. MATHEW/©TOUCHSTONE TELEVISON/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTIO. CANDY: ©COMEDY CENTRAL/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. LAW, MASH: ©20THCENTFOX/COURTESY EVERETT COLLECTION. SHOW: MICHAEL
lute insistence on respect. And
the part I don’t Physically fighting.
IMAGES. GYASI: JEFF SPICER/GETTY IMAGES FOR BFI. MODICA: CHARLES SYKES/BRAVO VIA GETTY IMAGES. RICHARDSON: JON KOPALOFF/GETTY IMAGES FOR VANITY FAIR. MARINO: JESSE GRANT/GETTY IMAGES FOR STARZ.
Anymore. What a spinoff for my
character might look like Melissa
Schemmenti & Barbara Howard:
Retirement Travel Shenanigans!
The last celebrity who had me truly
starstruck I don’t get starstruck
by actors, generally — having to
dance attached boob-to-groin with
Richard Gere [in Shall We Dance]
was daunting. I guess it was Nancy
Pelosi at the Kennedy Center
Honors. Oh! And Cate Blanchett
during awards season — but only
the first time.
 Wallis Annenber
Portrait by Rozette Rago

Wallis Annenberg GenSpace is a state-of-the-art community center in LA’s

/SVIEXS[RJSVSPHIVEHYPXWXSGSRRIGXPIEVRGVIEXIERHƼRHGSQQYRMX]
GenSpace is committed to changing the narrative on aging through
collaboration and conversations that challenge stereotypes about
KVS[MRKSPHIV0IEVRQSVIEXGENSPACE.LA
 Reviews Television

CRITICS’
CONVERSATION

Spring TV Highs and Lows

It may have seemed like all Succession all the time, but THR’s TV critics found other things to praise
(and puzzle over) on the small screen over the past few months — including a Netflix standout stained by controversy,
a true original on Peacock and a handful of shows that understood the appeal of formula done right

DANIEL FIENBERG It’s hard to tell the
story of spring TV in 2023 with-
out discussing HBO’s Succession
and Barry, as well as Apple TV+’s
Ted Lasso. Those three shows,
pricey swings from Amazon and
Apple; and Peacock rolling out
one of the strangest series in
recent memory.
ANGIE HAN TV might not be ending
You’d think Hulu’s Saint X and
Apple TV+’s The Last Thing He
Told Me would have tapped into
TV’s appetite for disappearing-
white-people mysteries — but the
recent so-so, based-on-previous-
IP shows, like Fatal Attraction or
Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies.
FIENBERG With IP, there’s always a
question of “What does the title

two of which came to an end and
one that’s seemingly coming to
an end, account for four of the
last six Emmys for outstanding
drama and comedy series, as well
as many nominations for acting,
writing and directing. With their
shocking deaths, wild deviations
in tone and, in the case of Ted
Lasso, expanded runtimes, they’ve
dominated social media and
watercooler convos since March.
That’s why we’re not going to
focus on them here. There’s more
to TV than Barry, Succession and
Ted Lasso — or at least HBO and
Apple hope there is after awards
season. Even not counting the
holy trinity, there were buzzy
returning series — FXX’s Dave!
Showtime’s Yellowjackets! — as
well as the best new Netflix
show in years; continued com-
edy momentum for Freevee; big,
with Succession, Barry and Ted
Lasso, but trying to garner the
kind of acclaim and attention
they have is very difficult — and
this spring’s been littered with
shows that sounded like safe bets
on paper but landed with a thud.
Amazon’s Daisy Jones & The Six
came armed with an expensive
marketing campaign but couldn’t
live up to either the rock ’n’ roll
energy of its 1970s Sunset Strip
setting or the playfulness of
Taylor Jenkins Reid’s novel. (It
also couldn’t deliver music good
enough to live up to the fictional
band’s reputation as a Fleetwood
Mac-level success.) And the
streamer’s The Power too often
fell back on feminist clichés that
would’ve felt dated in 2016, when
Naomi Alderman’s book came out.
From left: HBO’s Succession, Peacock’s Mrs. Davis, Netflix’s Beef,
Amazon’s Swarm, Apple TV+’s Ted Lasso.
former struggled to re-create the
subversion and specificity that
made Alexis Schaitkin’s novel so
singular, and the latter was better
at serving up Bay Area real estate
porn than actual suspense.
That’s not to say making shows
based on books is a bad idea,
obviously. Hulu’s Cheryl Strayed
adaptation Tiny Beautiful Things
won me over with its tender-
ness and great turns by Kathryn
Hahn, Merritt Wever and Sarah
Pidgeon. And Disney+’s American
Born Chinese does an excellent job
springboarding off Gene Luen
Yang’s book to deliver something
new and modern (if also a tad
Marvel-y for my taste) for 2023.
But clearly, source material
doesn’t always translate. And I’m
not even getting into the other
SUCCESSION: COURTESY OF HBO. BEEF: ANDREW COOPER/NETFLIX. DAVIS: COLLEEN HAYES/PEACOCK. SWARM: COURTESY OF PRIME VIDEO. LASSO: COURTESY OF APPLE TV+.
we’re mining even mean to any-
body?” Like, if Apple TV+ adapts
Garth Risk Hallberg’s novel City
on Fire, but eliminates the time
period and most of the distinctive
style, leaving only the unin-
spired murder mystery, what’s
the point? Or if we’re treated to
dueling semi-adaptations of True
Lies — CBS’ True Lies and Netflix’s
FUBAR — one that gets to use the
title and one that actually stars
Arnold Schwarzenegger, is the
“brand” the title, or the former
governor of California? And
does it matter that neither show
captures the scope or humor of
James Cameron’s film? At least
Max’s (speaking of a company
not understanding which part of
a name is the “brand”) Gremlins:
Secrets of the Mogwai delivers cute
mogwai and chaotic gremlins.
Once in a while, of course,

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 78 M AY 31, 2023

A eism is old news.
Whether you are a producer,
writer, or director, we invite At GenSpace we believe
you to consider how your
older adult characters are that older adults are
bein epicted: more than just their
Are characters reinforcing stereotypes of e – and should be
older adults as frail, sickly, dependent, cranky,
incompetent, or isolated? portrayed as nuanced,
Or, are they being shown as competent and multi-dimentional
engaged, having intergenerational relationships,
ERHGSRƼHIRXP]YWMRKXIGLRSPSK]# characters. Just li e
anyone else.
GenSpace member and volunteer, Charlie, shows his game face
during a “pool party” in the multi-purpose room.

as any other character would be?

Because your words matter.

We love to see positive adjectives such as
experienced, mature, knowledgeable,
energetic, and wise when referring to
older adults.
We encourage you to avoid terms such as
boomer, elderly, over the hill, or aging.
After all, we’re all aging.

Scan the QR to download our

full content creator’s guide

Wallis Annenberg GenSpace is working to encourage more accurate and

nuanced representation of older adults onscreen to help combat ageism.
Learn more at GENSPACE.LA
 Reviews
Television
somebody takes a title and does
something interesting with it.
Amazon’s Dead Ringers delivered
the body horror of the Cronenberg
film, as well as offering Rachel
Weisz possibly the best role of her
career, but creator Alice Birch
also had new things to say about
female reproductive health and
the birth industrial complex.
Everybody wants a franchise,
and intellectual property feels
like the way to generate it —
unless you’re Citadel, which put
zillions of dollars into a flashy
espionage thriller that was both
“original” and utterly generic.
Thanks to Priyanka Chopra Jonas
and Richard Madden, the show
seems to be finding an audience
— which is all Amazon wanted.
Fortunately, not all the spring’s
originals were so generic.
HAN No — some of the season’s
more unusual offerings came
from platforms that, as recently
as six months ago, felt like distant
also-rans in the streaming wars.
Peacock continued its hot streak
with Mrs. Davis, a series that
railed against the unoriginality of
AI by taking in every cliché imag-
inable and turning them into
something so sublimely bananas
that not even the most jaded critic
could have seen it coming.
Bupkis took another familiar
subject — Pete Davidson’s biog-
raphy — and filtered it through
a mélange of tones, styles and
themes to mostly interesting,
sometimes heartrending effect.
Jury Duty was big enough to
inspire audiences to finally figure
out what Freevee is. Thanks to
its apparent sweetheart of an
unwitting lead, Ronald Gladden,
the scripted-reality/comedy
hybrid turned out to be more
Amazon’s Dead Ringers (left) and Freevee’s Jury Duty
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
Netflix’s The Diplomat
heartwarming than you’d guess
from its Truman Show-ish premise
(though I’ll admit to still being
a bit queasy about its ethics).
Hopefully, new Freevee viewers
will stick around for Primo, which
isn’t reinventing any wheels but
stands up as a warm and funny
execution of the family sitcom.
Two of the spring’s most
talked-about titles came from
established streamers. I don’t
know that Amazon’s Swarm had
as much to stay about stan culture
or mental illness as it thinks it
did. But it oozed style, featured a
barn burner of a star turn from
Dominique Fishback and sparked
conversation — some incisive
(critiques of the show’s dehuman-
ization of its Black female lead),
some less so (pearl-clutching over
Chlöe Bailey’s sex scene).
Over on Netflix, Beef enthralled
me with its combo of twists, out-
rageous comedy and disarming
sense of grace — not to mention
its cast, including a rarely better
Ali Wong and Steven Yeun. That
made it all the more disappoint-
ing when my enthusiasm was later
dampened by controversy over
disturbing remarks by co-star
David Choe, and the snippy non-
apology by the show’s principals.
Would that the series had taken
more of its own lessons to heart.
FIENBERG I think we can simultane-
ously confront the David Choe
controversy — and the creative
team’s response — and recall
how remarkable Wong and Yeun
are and how frequently dazzling
80
creator Lee Sung Jin’s perspec-
tive is. The roller coaster of tones
produced by the series, from
hilarious to viscerally uncomfort-
able to playfully surreal, is too
impressive to ignore.
As for Mrs. Davis, originality
of the kind it aspires to is such a
glorious thing that I will happily
wave a flag for what creators Tara
Hernandez and Damon Lindelof
attempted, even if what the show
achieved fell far short for me.
It’s both the best and worst show
ever made about a nun mar-
ried to Jesus and a failed rodeo
cowboy attempting to bring down
a globally dominant artificial
intelligence algorithm. I found its
home stretch utterly hollow, and
yet I would rather watch 50 shows
like Mrs. Davis than a Citadel.
Same for Swarm. Was Janine
Nabers and Donald Glover’s hor-
ror comedy hugely perceptive
about 21st century celebrity and
the simultaneously nourish-
ing and toxic space of social
media fandom? Not sure. But
was Fishback, who veered from
childlike innocence to chill-
ing psychopathy, astonishing
from the first frame to the
last? Absolutely.
But as you say, you don’t need
to break boundaries to be good.
Primo is an appealing family
comedy, nothing more, nothing
less. But in creator Shea Serrano’s
hands, it has a wonderful speci-
ficity, and the cast is so likable
and funny that the show has end-
less room to grow.
A great ensemble, led by Rob
Lowe and Sian Clifford, plus co-
creator Victor Fresco’s twisted
approach to corporate satire,
made Netflix’s Unstable both
completely familiar and maybe
the spring’s funniest new show.
Also on Netflix, The Diplomat
hailed from The West Wing and
Homeland vet Debora Cahn and
felt like a hybrid of those shows.
M AY 31, 2023
But when you have fairly smart
writing and stars like Keri Russell
and Rufus Sewell, it’s enjoyable
enough to see formula delivered
with proficiency. You don’t need
to reinvent the wheel if you give
viewers a comfortable ride.
Did anything else stand out for
you this spring?
HAN I am so glad you mentioned
Unstable, because I don’t think
the posters that were just a giant
close-up of Rob Lowe and his son
were up to the task of getting out
just how hilarious this show is,
and how snappy the cast chem-
istry is. I am pretty much always
looking for something to fill the
Better Off Ted-shaped hole in my
heart, and what better than the
new series from the guy (Fresco)
who actually made Better Off Ted?
Likewise, I’m someone who’ll
stop to watch 2014’s Neighbors and
its sequel any time I find them
on cable, so I was delighted to see
that Apple TV+’s buddy comedy
Platonic plays off the easy, breezy
chemistry between Seth Rogen,
Rose Byrne and director Nicholas
Stoller (even if I am deeply skepti-
cal of the premise that two people
from opposite ends of L.A. could
ever really be friends).
Max’s Clone High isn’t an
original — technically, it’s the
second season of a show previ-
ously canceled in 2004 — but it
feels as fresh and fun as anything
this year, thanks to some smart
updates. HBO’s Rain Dogs is heart-
breaking as often as it is funny,
but what a wonderfully humane
portrait of a family on the fringes.
I found Apple TV+’s High Desert to
be an acquired taste, but eventu-
ally warmed to its sun-baked
shagginess and vivid lead charac-
ters (played by Patricia Arquette,
Rupert Friend and more).
DIPLOMAT: ALEX BAILEY/NETFLIX. DEAD: NIKO TAVERNISE/AMAZON STUDIOS. DUTY: COURTESY OF AMAZON FREEVEE.
Succession, Barry and Ted Lasso
have a way of sucking up all the
air in the room. And I get it:
I’ll miss watching them when
they’re gone (well, maybe less so
Ted Lasso after this disastrous
season) and I’ll certainly miss
dissecting them week to week.
But I think you and I have proven
here that there’s so much more
exciting, ambitious, unique TV to
be discovered outside that trio —
and I can’t wait to see what shows
are going to capture our conversa-
tions this summer!
 WE WERE SO FORTUNATE TO HAVE HAD
TWO SUCCESSFUL EVENTS AT CANNES THIS YEAR!

Our first was the ... Our 13th Annual International Film Finance
where we talked in depth about the hugely Forum in Association with the Marché du Film
successful Sci-Fi Film Genre and its impact was Standing Room Only!
across Asia and the World. A Great Big THANK YOU to the Marché Du
Film, especially Anahit & Guillaume.
Presented by We appreciate our Partners that help us make
this possible every year:
GOLD PARTNER:

To all that celebrated Winston Baker's 15 Year Anniversary

in person and in spirit…We are incredibly thankful for
each and everyone of you!
This party would not have been possible without our
Co-Host FilmHedge, our Partners Higginbotham and
The Hollywood Reporter… A Billion Thanks to You!

w w w . w i n s t o n b a k e r. c o m
CONGRATULATES
OUR PARTNER

ERYN
BROWN
ON HER RECOGNITION AS A FORCE FOR CHANGE.

ERYN IS A CHAMPION FOR DIVERSITY, EQUITY,

INCLUSION, AND ACCESSIBILITY ACROSS THE

INDUSTRY, AS BOTH A MANAGER AND FOUNDER

OF 1IN4 COALITION. WE ARE HONORED TO SUPPORT

THESE VITAL INITIATIVES AND THANK ERYN FOR

HER ADVOCACY.
 THR Insider
Women in Film at 50: ‘Helping the Next Gen
Get Into Jobs’ In 1973, THR’s head started the
gender-equality conversation that continues today
The inaugural members of Women in Film, from left: actress and Fox executive Nancy Malone, publicist Zepha Bogart, publicist Georganne Heller, producer Renee Valente (seated),
attorney Norma Zarky, THR’s Tichi Wilkerson Miles, composer-lyricist Portia Nelson (standing), THR columnist Sue Cameron and author Marcia Borie.
A force of nature,
Tichi Wilkerson became
the publisher and editor
our reputation as an equal-oppor-
tunity industry by opening the
doors wider to an ever-increasing
of The Hollywood Reporter after her group of talented female film-
husband, Billy Wilkerson, died in makers,” she wrote. “They do need
1962. Yet no matter how promi- a chance to be seen and heard.”
nent her position, the publisher, At WIF’s inaugural meeting,
who was of Mexican heritage, felt Wilkerson and eight women
isolated professionally realized they had to
from Hollywood with its Women in grow their ranks. Word
men’s clubs and associa- Film spread quickly, and at
FOUNDERS: COURTESY OF WIF. SCHAFFER: P. LEHMAN/FUTURE PUBLISHING VIA GETTY IMAGES.
tions, according to Mollie 50th least 50 women, includ-
Gregory’s 2002 book, Anniversary ing Barbara Boyle, who
Women Who Run the Show. would soon become CEO
In 1973, Wilkerson formed the of Roger Corman’s New World
advocacy group Women in Film. Pictures, crowded into THR’s
Wilkerson ran a front-page edi- lobby for the second meeting. “I
torial in THR introducing readers was amazed to find that ter-
to WIF, stating that Hollywood rific women were working in
was more prejudiced against the industry, because my whole
women than anyone cared to world had been men,” Boyle told
admit. “Now is the time to verify Gregory. “Tichi made it clear that
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
Innovators, Events, Honors
older women — she meant me —
had an obligation to contribute
what we knew.”
The legacy of Wilkerson, who
married twice more and died in
2004 at age 77, continues. WIF has
Kirsten
Schaffer
83 M AY 31, 2023
Milestone
worked hard the past decade to
become more inclusive. Stephanie
Allain — currently the first Black
president of the PGA — describes
her hesitation when approached
in 2014 to serve on WIF’s board:
“When I first joined, it was almost
all white women,” she says.
In 2015, Kirsten Schaffer was
named CEO of WIF. She and the
board pledged that every new
board member would come from
an underrepresented commu-
nity until parity was reached,
and that promise has been
fulfilled. At WIF, Schaffer also
was instrumental in launch-
ing ReFrame, an industry-wide
initiative to advance inclusivity
and gender equity that’s car-
ried out in partnership with the
Sundance Institute.
 THR Insider

Milestone

THR editorial director Nekesa

Mumbi Moody recently sat down
with Schaffer to talk about WIF,
past and present. — PAMELA MCCLINTOCK

When you came on, you had

already done so much work on
inclusion within the film commu-
nity. How did that help you when
you came to Women in Film?
I had been running Outfest as
director of programming and
In 2022, WIF’s Jane Fonda Humanitarian Award was given by the actress to Michaela Coel
then executive director for more at the organization’s Honors gala, which supports educational and philanthropic efforts.
than a decade. At that moment,
gay marriage was in a different that leverage the power of the also mostly white men. I don’t checklist they can look at it and go
place, transgender rights were women who are in jobs, to help want to be saying that five years through. I think those standards
on a positive trajectory. I was the next generation coming up from now, but it is still true. are going to get tougher over the
seeing among the women I knew, get into jobs. That is still a core years, as they should. And it’s a
directors in particular, that they principle of our work. How do you think the AMPAS really good strategy to get us to a

were not having as much suc-
cess as their male counterparts. I
thought I could bring everything
I had done to this organiza-
tion and help us move this
cause forward.
How has the focus on advocacy in
action changed in your tenure?
Tichi and a starting group of
women were pretty big disrupt-
ers in 1973. One of the things
that I thought was really inter-
esting was the tension between
the women who were already
in the jobs and the women who
were trying to get jobs. Was the
organization going to only serve
the women who were already
in jobs, or was the core mission
to help expand the pipeline? In
those early years, they found a
sweet spot between the two and
launched mentoring programs,
film-finishing programs, things
What do you point to as having had
the most progress?
When Tichi and her colleagues
started, they found a statistic
that only 2 percent of TV scripts
were written by women. Now
we’re at 48.4 percent [from WIF’s
ReFrame research].
A recent ReFrame report states
that hiring for women in film
plateaued in 2022. Do you feel as
if you’re taking two steps forward
and then one step back?
Yes, I think so. We hear people say
things like, “Oh, it’s exhausting
having to make sure that there
are enough women on the list,
or in the room, or getting inter-
viewed.” It’s a deeply entrenched
system that is difficult to change,
and the people in power are still
mostly white men, and they tend
to hire people they know, who are
inclusion standards will affect the
statistics? Some people say not
that much needs to be done to
meet those criteria.
I think the Academy is pretty
clear about saying this is a start-
ing point. It’s a place to build
awareness, and people have a
Amy Baer (left) is president of the WIF board;
Syrinthia Studer is the board’s exec director.
FONDA: JC OLIVERA/GETTY IMAGES. BAER: MICHAEL BUCKNER/VARIETY VIA GETTY IMAGES. STUDER: EMMA MCINTYRE/GETTY IMAGES. WILKERSON: BETTMANN/GETTY IMAGES. CLIPPING: COUJRTESY OF WIF. HARRIS: CHRISTOPHER POLK/GETTY IMAGES FOR WOMEN IN FILM/MAXMARA.
representative industry.
Your 2019 report said it could take
a decade or more to reach gender
parity in certain fields. And that’s
with a 25 percent increase year
after year. Do you think we’re on
track for that?
In some areas we’re on track, and
in some areas we’re still woefully
behind. For example, we took a
big leap in directors in 2021. Then
it’s been stagnant, so it’s multiple
years’ worth of data that tells the
clearest story. I did a little exercise
once, where I mapped out if we
increased by 5 percent, how long
would it take us to get to 50 per-
cent? And in some areas it would
take until 2075.
That’s huge. What have been the
challenges, including becoming
mothers, that women face in get-
ting and keeping that industry job?

5 DECADES OF WOMEN IN FILM 1977

WIF launches the Crystal
Awards, the first program
to exclusively honor
women working in the
entertainment industry.
The inaugural Crystal
luncheon recognizes
Lucille Ball, screenwriter
Eleanor Perry, actress-
1973 director Nancy Malone
Tichi Wilkerson Kassel and attorney Norma Zarky.
(she married Arthur
Kassel in 1983), the
publisher and editor of
The Hollywood Reporter,
founds WIF in March 1973.
She knew firsthand how
limited opportunities were
for women in Hollywood.
1984
The Film Finishing
Fund is created to
provide annual cash
awards and in-kind
production services to
ensure that innovative
films made by women
could be completed 1993
and seen by audiences The popular PSA Program
worldwide. Since its begins. The volunteer
inception, the fund effort was created by
has awarded north of Judith Parker Harris
$2 million in cash and (above) to give women
in-kind services to the opportunity to learn
more than 280 films the production process
from all over the globe. by making PSAs for non-
Recipients have gone on profit organizations. (It
to win Oscars, Emmys and was relaunched in 2017 as
Peabody Awards. the Production Program.)

Tichi Wilkerson Kassel flanked by Carol Channing (left) and Dionne Warwick, who saluted her at a 1988 gala.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 84 M AY 31, 2023

 THR Insider

Milestone

there were a lot more women

From left: 2021 Crystal Award honorees Zendaya and Ashley Levinson; Issa Rae received WIF’s Emerging Entrepreneur Award in 2019.
We’re dealing with changing the
culture within the industry so
that it’s a place that women and
parents want to and can stay. This
is about the length of the work-
day, especially in production. It’s
about many of the things that the
WGA is negotiating for right now
around sustainable pay.
Pay parity is also important, as
is having flexibility and creativity.
Can we get creative about how we
work and work in ways that are
more flexible to people who are
caring for children or elders? It’s
caring for each other in a way that
enables both women and men to
stay in this business.
There was a TV show that
shot in L.A. a few years ago
with a couple of different moms
who were directors, and they
creative. Frankly, dads should be
doing that, too.
Let’s talk about where we are now,
in the midst of a writers strike, and
DGA and SAG labor talks upcom-
ing. Where does gender parity fit in
with some of the labor issues that
we’re seeing?
The issue of the mini-room, I
think, impacts especially early
career folks, and a lot of those
are women and people of color,
because they’ve come in during
the past five years.
Stephanie
Allain
What was the impact of the
#MeToo movement on how the
organization centers its advocacy?
When the Harvey Weinstein
stories broke, the question I
kept getting was, “If women are
experiencing sexual harass-
ment, where do they turn?”
There wasn’t a good answer. It
was, “Yeah, call HR. Report it.”
Within six weeks, we launched
the WIF Sexual Harassment
Help Line, the first of its kind. It
still is the only thing that serves
the entertainment industry.
People can call, and the respond-
ers help them figure out what
they want to do next. We have
therapists, pro bono attorneys;
it continues to be a really valu-
able resource. We’ve gotten 400
to 500 calls.
producing in the ’20s, running
small studios, and when the big
money came in, women went out.
You see that around technology,
too. There were a lot more women
in VR a few years ago, as art-
ists, and when the money came
in, women go out. On the flip
side, when technology is acces-
sible, when it opens up pathways
for people who aren’t control-
ling the means of production,
more underrepresented folks
get involved.
What’s an example of WIF creating
change within the industry?
I was really excited a couple years
ago when Amazon announced its
inclusion road map, and it had
a lot of things that we had put
forth in the ReFrame resource,
and that’s what we want. Seeing
Amazon take those on and gener-
ate its own ideas, that was a really
good indicator of the success of
that program.
When you see women leading
projects, how does that manifest
on sets or at studios?
What we hear from people who
are working on many of those
teams is that they’re more
inclusive, friendlier, people

ZENDAYA: STEFANIE KEENAN/GETTY IMAGES FOR WOMEN IN FILM. RAE: VALERIE MACON/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES. ALLAIN: KEVIN WINTER/WIREIMAGE. REFRAME: COURTESY OF WIF.
would cover for each other. work hard, and they bring their
Somebody would go home to Have changes in the industry, full creative selves to the jobs,
feed the kids, put them to bed, whether in streaming and technol- but they’re treated well. There’s
somebody would cover their set ogy, helped women at all? more of a spirit of a camaraderie
while they were gone, and then One thing we have seen through- and acceptance.
they’d come back and wrap out out the past 100 years in this
the day. I don’t think the DGA industry is that when money Interview edited for length
loves that, but that’s how we get comes in, women go out. So and clarity.

2015 parity in the industry. 2021

The ACLU asks the Equal (The program is dubbed WIF debuts the
Employment Opportunity ReFrame two years later.) Emerging Producers
Commission to investigate Program, a one-year
gender discrimination in course for women and
Hollywood using research 2017 gender-nonconforming
commissioned by WIF and In the wake of #MeToo, people early in their
the Sundance Institute. the WIF Help Line is producing careers.
WIF refers filmmakers launched to address
and execs for interviews sexual harassment and WIF announces
with the EEOC. misconduct in the industry. Pathmakers, which
highlights the career
The same year, WIF and journeys of Black
Sundance launch the 2019 women in Hollywood.
Systemic Change Project Women in Film begins the
to mitigate bias during the Vote for Women advocacy The ReFrame
creative decision-making campaign, releasing a Leadership Council
and hiring process and #VoteForWomen film is formed to promote
to measure progress ballot and TV ballot during gender equality in the
in terms of gender awards season. industry. — P.M.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 86 M AY 31, 2023

 JAMES,
CONGRATULATIONS, TITAN!

HERE’S TO MORE TITANIC

ACHIEVEMENTS IN YOUR FUTURE

COLUMN
VIDEO SERIES

.COM

Tribeca Fetes Directorial Debuts
of Michael Shannon, Chelsea Peretti
The NYC fest will screen a slew of films
from actors turned directors By Hilary Lewis
F or more than 20 years,
the Tribeca Festival has
given up-and-coming
directors a star-studded New
York City showcase. This year,
though, the fest is offering
well-known actors a chance to
show up as directors. Michael
Shannon, David Duchovny,
Chelsea Peretti, Jennifer
Esposito, John Slattery, and
partners Lily Rabe and Hamish
Linklater all directed mov-
ies that will world premiere
there, with Rabe and Linklater,
Shannon, Peretti and Esposito
making their feature directo-
rial debuts.
In addition to those selec-
tions, Tribeca will feature the
North American and
New York premieres,
respectively, of Steve Festival
Buscemi’s The Listener, June 7-18
which had its world New York City
premiere at the 2022
Venice Film Festival, and
Randall Park ’s Shortcomings,
which debuted at Sundance.
And the festival will close with
a 30th anniversary screening
of A Bronx Tale, the directorial
debut of Tribeca co-founder
Robert De Niro.
While Tribeca didn’t set out
to showcase all these actor-
directed films, festival director
and vp programming Cara
Cusumano says the phenom-
enon is in line with its support
of interdisciplinary storytelling. Rosenstein, Finn Wittrock
“Seeing folks crossing in front
of and behind the camera and
between different storytelling
spaces felt like the kind of thing
that we’re excited about,” she
tells THR. This year, Tribeca’s
storytelling arrives amid the
writers strike, and Cusumano
says the festival is monitor-
ing things but has not yet had
to adjust plans in response to
the work stoppage. Read on for
more about this year’s actor-
directed world premieres.
BUCKY F*CKING DENT
Duchovny writes, directs and
produces this film adaptation
of his novel about a Yankee
Stadium vendor and aspir-
ing novelist (Logan
Tribeca Marshall-Green) who
returns home to care
for his terminally ill,
Red Sox-loving father
(Duchovny), against
the backdrop of the 1978
baseball season, when Bucky
Dent ended the Red Sox playoff
run. Stephanie Beatriz, Pamela
Adlon, Evan Handler and
Daphne Rubin-Vega also star.
DOWNTOWN OWL
Based on Chuck Klosterman’s
novel, Rabe and Linklater’s
feature directorial debut fol-
lows characters played by Ed
Harris, Henry Golding, Vanessa
Hudgens, August Blanco
T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER
and Rabe as they prepare for
a historic blizzard in small-
town Owl, North Dakota, in
1984, which has them partly
Buscemi isolated from contemporary
pop culture. Linklater also
wrote the script.
ERIC LARUE
Duchovny Shannon steps behind the
camera to helm this adapta-
tion of Brett Neveu’s 2002
play about a mother (Judy
Greer) reckoning with her son
Esposito murdering his high school
classmates as she and her
husband seek solace in church
and she’s urged to meet with
the mothers of her son’s
Linklater victims. Alexander Skarsgard,
Tracy Letts and Alison Pill
round out the cast.
FIRST TIME
Park FEMALE DIRECTOR
Peretti makes her feature
directorial debut with
this ensemble comedy she
Peretti
Shannon
Slattery
88 M AY 31, 2023
THR Insider
Festival
Preview
Henry Golding and Lily Rabe in Downtown
Owl, centering on a storm-beset small town.
The film is the directing debut of Rabe and
her offscreen partner, Hamish Linklater, who
also wrote the screenplay.
wrote, produces and
stars in. After her male
predecessor is fired for inap-
propriate behavior, Peretti’s
newly appointed Glendale
theater director struggles
to stage her Southern rural
drama. The cast includes
Megan Mullally, Max Greenfield,
Blake Anderson, Megan
Stalter, Kate Berlant and Amy
Poehler, who is also one of
the producers.
FRESH KILLS
In her feature directorial
debut, Esposito focuses on
the women of the Larusso
Staten Island crime family as
they deal with their turbulent
world and its unspoken rules
in the late ’80s and early ’90s.
Esposito also wrote, produced
and stars in the film, which
features Annabella Sciorra and
Domenick Lombardozzi.
STILLS: COURTESY OF TRIBECA (3). DUCHOVNY: ARAYA DOHENY/GETTY IMAGES FOR NETFLIX. BUSCEMI: DIMITRIOS KAMBOURIS/GETTY IMAGES. ESPOSITO: THEO WARGO/GETTY IMAGES. LINKLATER: JC OLIVERA/GA/THE
HOLLYWOOD REPORTER VIA GETTY IMAGES. PARK: MONICA SCHIPPER/GETTY IMAGES. PERETTI: MONICA SCHIPPER/WIREIMAGE. SHANNON: THEO WARGO/GETTY IMAGES. SLATTERY: JAMIE MCCARTHY/WIREIMAGE.
MAGGIE MOORE(S)
Slattery’s dark comedy stars
fellow Mad Men alum Jon
Hamm as a police chief in
a small town where two
women with the same name
are murdered days apart.
The film, which also stars
Tina Fey and Ted Lasso’s Nick
Mohammed and was writ-
ten by Paul Bernbaum, sees
Hamm’s character trying to
solve the case as he deals with
nosy neighbors, contract kill-
ers, cheating husbands and
lonely individuals.
Left: Tina Fey co-stars with
Jon Hamm in John Slattery’s
murder mystery-slash-comedy
Maggie Moore(s). Above:
Tessa Thompson plays a crisis
hotline volunteer in Steve
Buscemi’s The Listener.
 THR Insider

Festival
Preview

‘A Feeling of
Responsibility’
Josh Dallas touts Manifest
for ATX Fest in place of his
striking showrunner By Seija Rankin
T he missing-plane drama
Manifest has had a hell of
a ride. First came the now
infamous cancellation by NBC,
followed by months of uncer-
tainty over the show’s remaining
two seasons and then culminat-
ing in a last-minute, 20-episode
order from Netflix. The second
half of the abbreviated final sea-
son will hit the streamer June 2
— right in the middle of the WGA
strike that prohibits its prolific
writer-showrunner, Jeff Rake,
from promoting the series.
Luckily for the show, star
Josh Dallas (who plays Flight 828
beginning that I didn’t want to
know how it was going to end, so
when we did the final table read,
I was in tears the whole time. It’s
twofold, right? It’s bittersweet
because we’re saying goodbye to
these characters and this world,
and also to the TV family we’ve
created, the crew and everyone
we’ve worked with for the past Josh Dallas stars on Manifest, which aired for three seasons on NBC before moving to Netflix.
five years. It was charged. But as
far as the ending, Jeff has known or we follow the younger passen- Is there anything to be replicated
how he wanted to end this story gers. Maybe we go back to 2013 from the process of Manifest
since the very beginning. and deep dive into the investiga- being canceled by NBC and picked
tion with [NSA director] Vance. up by Netflix?
What kind of emotional resolution Honestly, I don’t think there’s
did you want for your character? If you look at the TV landscape much you can do beyond trying to

DALLAS: MAARTEN DE BOER/NBCU PHOTO BANK/NBCUNIVERSAL VIA GETTY IMAGES. MANIFEST SEASON 1: JEFF DALY/NBCU PHOTO BANK/NBCUNIVERSAL VIA GETTY IMAGES. MANIFEST SEASON 4: COURTESY OF NETFLIX.
passenger Ben Stone and I wanted him to learn today compared with 2011, when make the best thing you possibly
will appear at the ATX ATX TV from his experience you started on Once Upon a can and hope it connects with
TV Festival with other Festival and be able to do things Time, could you have imagined people. Once Upon a Time and
castmembers June 1) is June 1-4 over again with a new booking another show with Manifest are similar in terms of
picking up the baton. He Austin perspective. If there was 100-plus episodes? their genre-leaning audiences,
spoke to THR — while a sequel after the final I have been extremely lucky so far always the greatest TV watchers
enjoying his time at home in L.A. scene, I hope he would go forward when it comes to that. I definitely because they’re so passionate
with his wife, actress Ginnifer armed with knowledge and tools think that the days of shows run- about their shows. It is a huge part
Goodwin, and their two young to take life as a gift. ning for five or seven seasons are of why we came back. I wish there
children after five years of going away, and there are pluses was a formula. If anyone knows
production in New York — about So you envision a scenario in which and minuses to that. It’s a great it, please put in the comments
Manifest’s marquee ending and there’s a reboot or sequel? Maybe shame that we’re losing the lon- below. (Laughs.)
the state of episodic television like a “flash sideways” on Lost? gevity that doesn’t exist in other
going forward. I think there’s major sequel or mediums, to be able to explore Do you feel extra pressure to
spinoff potential here. Maybe we the evolution of a character and a promote the show while Jeff Rake
What was your reaction to the plot go into the future and see Eden story. On the other hand, shorter is on strike?
of the show’s final episode? [his character’s daughter] at 21 or seasons allow storytelling to be There’s certainly a feeling of
I had a deal with Jeff from the very so as she’s navigating the world, concise and exciting. responsibility because I want
to do right by Jeff and celebrate
the show in the way it deserves,
but at the same time I want to
support Jeff and all our writers
in their negotiations and what
they’re going through. There’s
no pressure, though, only joy and
gratefulness when I talk about it.
If I mess anything up, we’ll have
to call him after the strike.
Left: Dallas with Athena Karkanis, who plays
his wife, Grace Stone, on Manifest. Right (from Interview edited for length
left): Matt Long, Melissa Roxburgh, Ty Doran,
Luna Blaise and Dallas during season four. and clarity.

T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 90 M AY 31, 2023

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Sainte-Marie Was Oscar’s First Indigenous Winner

“Up Where We Belong,” from Richard Gere’s naval officer said it would never be a hit,” Taika, Wes and I are each from
An Officer and a Gentleman, may scoops up Debra Winger’s fac- Hackford once said. But it spent unique and distant life experi-
now be a wedding standard, but tory worker — he’d formulated 23 weeks on the Billboard Hot 100, ences, all three of us are active
back in early 1982 it was just a a ballad about love soaring to including three at No. 1. It also supporters of other Indigenous
gorgeous tune floating through where “eagles cry on a mountain won a best original song Oscar artists who are telling our stories
the mind of Canadian-American high.” It was Hackford’s friend in 1983, making Sainte-Marie in film.” — SETH ABRAMOVITCH
singer-songwriter Buffy Sainte- Gary George, former PR chief of the first Indigenous artist to win
Marie. “I wrote the melody at Warner Bros. Records, who sug- one. (She is Piapot Cree Nation.)
my piano, just playing music by gested his client Jennifer Warnes “It’s pretty surreal to walk around
myself for fun,” Sainte-Marie, to sing it; and it was Warnes who Hollywood on Oscar night holding
82, tells THR. “It just popped into came up with the idea to make it your own Academy Award while
my head like songs do.” When a duet with Joe Cocker. “Jack and eating pizza,” she recalls. “It’s
composer Jack Nitzsche reached I weren’t invited to the recording only been recently that anyone
out to her to collaborate on the session, but whatever they did in has mentioned that I was the first ABC PHOTO ARCHIVES/DISNEY GENERAL ENTERTAINMENT CONTENT VIA GETTY IMAGES

Officer score, she played him “my there was magic,” says Sainte- Indigenous Oscar winner. It took
melody and hook and the bridge, Marie, who notes that producer another 38 years for Taika Waititi
but there were no words yet.” “Stewart Levine’s perfect arrange- — Maori from New Zealand — to
Director Taylor Hackford then ment became a towering but win for Jojo Rabbit. And recently
enlisted lyricist Will Jennings, totally natural duet.” Paramount Wes Studi, who is Cherokee,
who watched a rough cut of the heads Michael Eisner and Don received an honorary Oscar for
film. By the final scene — when Simpson “hated the record and his great body of work. Although

From left: Lyricist Will Jennings and co-writers Buffy Sainte-Marie and Jack Nitzsche accepted the Oscar for best original song for “Up Where We Belong” from An Officer and a Gentleman.

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T H E HOL LY WO OD R EP ORT ER 92 M AY 31, 2023

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