04 September.
Time-code Speaker Transcription
0:00:39 Thomas Girst Phela abantu bayathokoza kakhulu kuthi bavumele
benze lapha, bazokwenza bafunukukwenza nibe
bafunukukwenza nje ngokuthi bafundile kakhulu kulu
ngayo mbele ngako ehe nokuningi nje ubuyincwadi
efane bayibhalwe nawe sayifaka into ngako wonke
nemimcabanga wakho yonke izinto engondweni lakho
kuye izakhombela la nezimishi le ubuyiso kozabase Cape
Town la ne BM babakayiletha ngoko mbere kwayo
bayiboleke abantu bayoyithenga bazokuthi ngambere
kwako ebathi bayathokoza kakhulu ukuthi ubavumele
ukuthi babe la bathi bathoma ke babuzeka zakhona
ufunukubuza
0:01:29 Joana Ayi zathokoza, ngizekuthini ke mara indaba ungazasi ayi
ngathokoza ngokuza kwa la ngimphasela mphasela
thokoza
0:02:58 Esther Mahlangu Bafuna ukukwazi ukuthi wathoma njani ukwaloku ngoba
laba funde khona ngokuthi umma wakufundisa no gogo
wakufundisa nabanye ukuthi wasuka njani
0:03:16 Joana Mma ka Mbela, kanti u mma ka Mbela ngawuphi,
uyesahlamba, nganje.Awu wasuka njani
0:03:30 Thomas Girst Wathoma njani wasikima nje wagwala ngobani
abakuthatha bakubeka ngakuthi ugwala
Translated in English Notes
People are very grateful that you allowed
them to do this; they will do it gladly, not just
because they learned a lot before, but also
because they have a lot of respect for you
and many ideas in your mind. Everything in
your heart, they will follow and the principles
of your leadership. They will go to Cape Town
and bring it forward; they will thank you very
much for allowing them to be here. When
they say it, they are proud of it, and when
they are asked about it, they will gladly
answer with what they have learned.
No, they are grateful. What should I say now?
The matter you don't know, I will tell you. I
won't be grateful now for coming here to
greet you, I will be grateful later when I
explain the matter to you."
They want to know how you started this,
because those who learned there, your
mother taught you, and your grandmother
taught you, and others, want to know how
you began.
Mother of Mbela, where is the mother of
Mbela from? She is humble, indeed. How did
she start?
How did you start? Did you just decide, or did Agrees with the
someone take you and put you there, saying, speaker

0:03:38 Joana Angithi thina sasidlala namandla njani njani , dlale
mandla dlani uyachama khona lapha kwenze njani
okwenza nje ngoba ubona kuthi lapha ngisekwe nje
kwakohomaKhoba bafundisa ube no gogo wakho yabona
unawu unehloko thakatha uyatyhatha uyayenza into
leyo, ake ngesiba hayi nge pencil ngesibali lenkunku
0:05:12 Thomas Girst So Ura lo ubuye Nigeria uthi yena ke ufunukukwazi
ukuthi imbala le enigwala ngayo kade nikera kuphi?
Imbala? Yah yonke imibala le isarulani njani kuthi
nikeraphi njani
0:05:36 Joana Angithi ugwala loku njenge amabala kwathi karolayini
inzima iyoyenza njani , Sasithole emlanjeni ehe imgothi
ibe emgothi nembe khona nithole hlukene nithathe nize
ekhaya faka umlombe phakathi nibe gangayothe
umlonge
0:06:19 Esther Mahlangu Nafaka umlongo, nibenzani ne umlongo?
0:06:23 Joana Yabamba kuthi izulu kunakho kuthi zungasehulukwe
0:07:00 Esther Mahlangu Uthi imbala le kuithi k imbala le ke liyadaluleka kuthi
izogwala uzokulisa abalubuluhle na kuthi iyabiuyaphi
ngoba, emalnjeni,
Carry this? comments.
Didn't we play with strength, like this, play
with strength, show off there, how did it
happen, what did you do, because you see,
where I was taken, it was just too difficult.
Khoba, they taught you, and your
grandmother saw it. You have a skill, you're
skillful, you can do that thing, let it be with a
brush, not just with a pencil, with the ink of
the teacher."
So, Ura, when you returned to Nigeria, did
you say that you wanted to be able to know
the color you used to carry long ago? The
color? Yes, all the colors, how do they appear,
where did you get them, how did you use
them?
It seems that carrying things, like colors, is
challenging, much like how a heavy Carolina
fabric would be. We found something by the
water—perhaps a stick or a branch—and
noticed a difference when you obtained it.
Then, bring it home and place a figurine
inside, in between, and discuss it
You put the figurine, what do you do with the
figurine?
It's playing up there in the sky where it
cannot be reached
You say our color is fading, but is this color
that used to carry so dazzling? Where will it
go, will it shine for beautiful people, and

0:07:13 Joana Emlanjeni nenzima zokuthatha umlambo nayo leyo
emhlophe nithatha kumlambo mhlophe angithi yonke
into ibe umlambo nakhon igijime inemva kunomgothi
lapha khona lapho
0:08:02 Esther Mahlangu Kuse kuthi bafunukwazi kuthi nawotshiya ke mbala le
lesindu thatha ke bathwa e akrilin, ukwaba njani usuka
lapho bese usungene kuthi ke isigaba sokulekekisa lapha
imibala ekenjwa
0:08:23 Joana Uthi kwaba njani, wau wa kwaba njani kuzoba njani
kumayela nje nibeleka kwenzima, nibeleka ngesarulani,
ngibeleka ngemhlophe, imakhalawayo ke ngamvanga
lomlongwe phethe niyagwala ke ngayo ngithathe
ngifakele, iyakhonas kuthi ifaka kuthi khona uyabona
0:09:14 Esther Mahlangu So ufunukwazi ukthi usuke njani ebaleni le nikeriya kuphi
ke emlanjeni sobe belekiza ke amaphindi lawa thola
umabodleleni umathombi, wathoma nini ukubelekiza
0:09:33 Joana Ah ngezengasho kuthi ngathoma nini ngebelekiza izinto
nje sengazi kuthi ngibelekeza ngazo kwanga lomlongwe
zanjani kade ka ngazo , ngenze ngathi ngazo zathoma
hlabangithe ethile,
0:10:43 Esther Mahlangu Imbala eningi angithi yiyophi umbala othanda kakhulu?
where will it be lost because, by the water...
By the water and the challenges of taking
from the river, you also take from the white
river. Isn't it so that everything becomes a
river and that there is also a stick with its end
in the water there, where it ends
It's like they want to be able to leave the
color that you leave behind, then take it and
apply it on the acrylic. How does it happen,
starting from where, and then entering into
the part of creating the colors that are used
there?
How was it, how is it going to be, it's just like
you're walking, you walk with difficulty, you
walk with colors, you walk with white. As for
the stick, I heard it's a valuable stick, you
carry it, and you put it on, you see it go in,
there you go.
So, do you want to explain how you started
with this carrying, where did you pick it up by
the water, then refine it into the bottle and
the figurine? When did you start refining it?
Oh, I didn't explain when I started refining
things. I just know that I've been carrying
them for a long time, and I do it as if I have
been doing it forever. I do it like I have been
carrying various things for a very long time.
Among many colors, which one is your
favorite color?
0:10:47 Joana Awo ngithanda yonke ngoba iyezwana angithi,
ioyezwana mizmba, beka lo uyazi ungahlanga loko
uyazwana kubuhle .
0:11:00 Thomas Girst Ayikho khona othama khona kuthi ayui nako yona engi.
Hawu sengitho kuthi, ngazi nzima zonke, uma ngiyenzi
imali leya ngifaka i-colour leya ngifaka ibe ne colour le
ziyazwana
0:12:05 Joana Uthi azona umbere kwako lo uzwa njena intsingwi
emnandi ngako ngathi bacula nje, imbala akho le
ikhuluma njenge khada, ikhuluma nakho ngakonke ,
uthini ngalokho?
0:12:31 Thomas Girst Uthi umculo lo iyenza njani kuwe, ungena njani lapho
uphuma njani. Lapho khona ngambiza , ngase kwazi
kuthi nangibekelela into leyeya ngibeka ngaleyazi
izwana, beka naleya yazi azizwani naleya anizwana phela
nje , abanye babona ke ngokuthi izimu unjani
0:14:00 Esther Mahlangu Kuthi loko asila eh ufude belikhulu ngomtwana egwala
ngoko baningi abantu bangabalilekho , ingaya kuthi
ithaka ngani kuthi ingane egoloko uyimpilo lakho, nhlale
nhlizini yakho , njengoba njke una 87 uma ungabona
umntwana oneminyaka oyi 10 ethi uthuni njengayo
kuthwa njengokokwenzayo , yini ungabuyi encono
ungabeke lakho uma ubusemncane . Ah mna asiki
ngifusana hwe, uthi uma ngikungaka . Yah ukhuluma
ngako kuthi ma unabantwana abancane bathoma
ukwenza mbere golo okwangawo, uzwani wena?
Ukunakelela nhiziyo nako , Kumnandi njani ka?
I love all of them because each one is unique,
has its own charm, just like you appreciate
diversity in beauty.
There's no specific color that I dislike; each
has its own beauty. Well, my thought is that, I
appreciate all colors; when I make money, I
add a different color, making it have various
colors.
You say it will have a different appearance,
and you hear it like a sweet melody, as if they
are playing, your color speaks like a song, it
speaks altogether; what do you say about
that?
You say, how does this music affect you, how
does it enter when you come out. When
there, I call, and somehow, I don't know if I
put something on it, I put it with this song,
put it with that one, they don't match with
each other, some see it as if it's spiritual, how
is it?
When someone dies at a young age, it is a big
loss, especially when it's a child who was
loved by many people. It's difficult to imagine
the pain of losing a child, as they are the
essence of your life. Cherish your family. As
you mentioned, being 87 years old, you might
see a child around the age of 10 and wonder
what their life would be like. What advice
would you give to them, as it's said to be
according to what you have experienced?
How would you guide them to live a better
 Kumnandi kumnandi ngithi ba bazokukhamba lapha
ukhambe khona
0:15:20 Joana Bahlakaniphile aba
0:16:09 Thomas Girst Se bafunukwazi ngokuTshabele ngokuthi iTshabele
yindawo yenjani, yiyathoma kunjani kade be, ITshabelo
iza, iza
0:16:22 Joana Oh aye Tshabelo, angithi, ngisholo, ngisholoko ngayo
waye Tshabelo, tshwaya, uzazikhulumelela yena yabona
kuyi yini.
0:17:00 Esther Mahlangu Bese swelelika naye itshabelo hawu, iuswelelika nawe ,
iswelelika ngayo sonke lapha , lotho, thoko baya lutho
kuthisa yena bayabuphetshe, iyo ngathokoza , nje uyazi
mema ke uhlengathi ukhulume nje ngabele kanjani eh,
Tshabelo, ungayenza njani lana kade, lalala
usukhumbuze , Yah nosawuyi Tshabelo kwenza ikuwela
nomuNguni bazothatha umhhabo laba , nabathatha
umhhaba laba komkhaba bonke ,mina ngiyezi Jamaica,
nibafika ngikwamile ohhaba bathi mkhango kweyela
siTshabelo kuthi sokwenza aba sokumuleka sokuthi
lomagamasakwela ke,safike eTshabelo , safike eTshabelo
samangala basakuzi kwakhiwe , ehe usakhiwa
sokuhlukana , ehe ngafika lapha bathi ngasihlaba indlu
kuyenzindlu sebekelile sasizwa ke ngahlaba nje , inhlaba
sengokuyoko , safika khona sase lapho khona , ingastethi
life when they are young? Ah, I can't fully
understand, but you say when you look
back... yes, you talk about how if you have
small children, they should progress beyond
what you have achieved. Do you understand
yourself? How does it feel in your heart? Is it
good? Very good. I think they will appreciate
it when you walk there.
they are smart
They want to understand by observing how
iTshabele used to be, how it has changed
over time, the change is happening, it is
happening.
Oh, AyeTshabelo, isn't it so, I speak, I speak as
it was, AyeTshabelo, say, will you convey my
message to him, you see, what is it?
Then, you stay in Tshabelo, oh, it's
interesting, you also stay there, everyone
stays there, this thing, thank you, they are
doing something to him, they are making him
cry, and he is grateful, just as you know how,
Tshabelo, what can you do here, for a long
time, sleeping, you remember, yes, and you
say Tshabelo will be blessed, and those who
receive blessings will take gifts, and those
who take gifts will take all the blessings, as for
me, I'm going to Jamaica, they said the ship is
sailing to Tshabelo to make a name for
myself, we arrived in Tshabelo, we arrived in
Tshabelo when the sun was setting, yes, we
were given a home, a home was built for us,
 sidla ke , sasuka ke basinike imphende, imphende
sagwala ke ngobugwala , Sijabulela kakhulu
0: 19:25 Thomas Girst So banikhumbisana lapha ke, nenza nika funi gwala le?
Yah ugwala ngokukwanyaka safunda sisebancane
sisekhaya lapho sisebancane sabonbiswa nabo gogpo,
Sakha amandlwane njengoba umkhayeba sasishiyindlu
sisebesakha amandlwa kusasike ugogo yagwala lapha
umama uyagwala lapha hlabe lapha uhlaka uhhweba
isantsha kwake kululeka kwengane cuzu uzogwala
uyaxalankala uyagwala iuyagwala uyagwala dot into le
liyangena , Uyazi ifuna , izufa uthuma into ioyothathi
ibeg le sarulani nimehlabathi sise nehlabathi ngaze
nemihlabthi luyalwekele sebabona isarulani isuyini naso
sebe nayo khona , Ikhona sarulani isiyiskhama , Doti
wenzani isarulani sikuphi? Kodwa ake basilethe ke
0:21:29 Joana Musa baphi babangabonakali bathathi beg ye sarulani
ingekephi gijima uyidal isarulani
0:22:04 Esther Mahlangu Sobathi indaba yokhela kuthi khona ninzenzele nina into
enikeyakho ukutshile nawe kuthi lokuthi kusehlala eh
egazini zakho encongondweni zakho ise inguwe
0:22:33 Joana Lethi kokanje I black ileyazi, angithi ungenaliphi ithunga
ne lesarulani, Ayi ngisebeza ngathi sikhona nendaba
yayokuyifuna , beka lapha kuyitshaba
0:23:30 Thomas Girst Ningaki imibala engaphuma nihlala bonisayo? Hayi
yilokho ibuneke nje , inje ngoba ihlukene , ngithe balethi
yes, we arrived there, and when we got
there, they said we were given a house, we
just laughed, it's wonderful
So, we are united here, doing what, giving or
not giving? Yes, we are carrying on with our
lives, learning when we are little, at home
when we are little, we are also teased by the
elderly. We build small huts, just as the house
was left, we build small huts, gogo
(grandmother) is also building here, mom is
building here, digging, sweeping, and cleaning
the yard is easy for the children. You carry on,
you talk and carry on, you carry on, dot, this
thing enters, you know it wants, it is
powerful, it sends something, it wants what
Sarulani wants, it enters the earth, we are on
the earth, we have earth, it is a sign of
Sarulani, what is it? But let them bring it.
Do not go where they can't see you; take that
thing to Sarulani, don't go elsewhere, run,
take it to Sarulani.
People say the matter of kindness is that you
should do something good as you wish for
yourself, so that it remains in your blood and
in your thoughts as part of who you are.
That black one there knows, isn't it so, it has a
connection with Sarulani. No, I'm just
guessing, as if there is a matter it wants to
reveal; put it here, it dislikes it.
Do you not see the colors that come out
when you stay visible? No, that's just how it
 inhlabathi sebenzisa ihlabathi, mamko ngalethi
ihlabathi , yiyo le, ngithe eyiphuphu, ikuphi, emva
kwemnyango laphaya kunethunga , kuyathunga yah,
inesarulani ine iya inesarulani
0:25:55 Joana Uthi uThomas ufundile koningi obalwe ngawe ukuthi
imbala le eh isuthini iyobeka kuwe abanye bathi konke
lokho ngathi buka ihlubanapha yokungenela lapha
encono lapho uzathini ngalokho ,. Uyena babaphansi ,
abe abe abeba hlaba bamgonganekanye nabo mzini
abagwala bekelele nibengenge nehlabathi iye , ngathi
Thomas ngathi namhlanje siningi, hawu yinto zabantu
abadala
0:28:10 Esther Mahlangu Uthi laba sokuthuluka sucubeka se into yathoma
ingabeza ngaphambili , manje uyabuza ukuthi njengoba
la amagwala lola akuna bantu akunalwani, akuna
mkhukhu, kukhuluma njani? Akuna mkhukhu, awalathi
sisukwenza izinto ebebeka ngayo inzima ngathi siyenza
into eyona ngathi siphila ngayo yona . imphilisa njani?
Kuhle kamnandi khona phela, umnchama sumnchama
labphothela uyazi ukuthi ukwengalokho, kwengalokho ,
lokho sioyazi kuthi izwana nobulongwe phelela neglabo
0:30:48 Unknown Speaker Babuza ngokuthi la, ma ucala umberegolo noma
sokuyenza ilayini odrowa lona enjeke lapha lithini noma
ubona kuthi lihlezi lihlambe yonke, kwenzakalani kuthi
dosa ube onje, yini lokho ke, awukhoni into
ekhumbulayo, encanini bakho noma kuphi nawenza nje,
kwenzakali encondweni yakho nakubuleka? Kwenzakala
looks, it looks like that because it's different. I
say they bring earth, use earth, the one with
clay uses clay, that's it. I say it's reddish,
where does it come from? Behind the door
there, there is a mound, it's a mound, yes,
Sarulani has a mound, Sarulani has it
Thomas says he has learned a lot, what is said
about you is that the color in the room will
suit you, and others say everything as if you
see a better view here, wherever you are. He
is the one below, he who carries the mound,
he who carries and carries, the healer goes
with the earth, saying, 'Thomas, today we are
many,' oh, it's the way of the elders.
He says those who are progressing, their
appearance stands out, something is
happening ahead. Now you ask, as in this
place, there are no people, no huts, how does
it speak? There are no huts, it doesn't laugh,
we do things that are difficult, as if we are
doing something else, as if we are living in
another way. How is the progress? It is very
good there, the progress is great, the one
who goes forward knows that it is really,
really, that we know that it is a way of life
that endures, with them
.They are asking about this, whether you call
it a flag or make it a wine label, how it moves
like this, where does it stand or do you see it
standing out entirely, what happened when
you tasted it, what is that? Can you
remember something, in your thoughts or
 njani nithokoza nalezi ma ngikuyidosa ke zakithi kungathi
kunakale nithokozana ma ngidosa , ayi kuthi bathi ngize,
noma nento engiyenza kuzwayo lawa
0:32:27 Esther Mahlangu Bazofunukwazi ukuthi izinto ezinzenzakalayo empilweni
akho basithi khona abantu abayayidunza nabo abanye
abaya baleka encondweni akho kuyangena na, nagena
kuphuma njani la embelekweni. Izinto enye
engayicabnga ngekancane yindaba zokuzizwa bathi kade
angina lapho
0:33:49 Joana Uyabuza ngokuthi uMandela uyaphuma ejele nabantu
ananingi sebatshaphulula ejele inahha ijabule
ekhulukhulu , inga, ngokwesikhathi sokwenzeka lokho
kade ugwala ni uyakhumbula? Angizwanga ngazegangani
ngakho ngapho ngi ngoba ngazibona nga bengi
bengingangane ngoku bambelana ngophumana
ngobekwenzeka aha
0:35:07 Esther Mahlangu Uthi uThomas u laba bafunde khona ngaba zwawo
ukuthi nguwe wokuthomoa okhethe inyangaphelekwe
ngesikhathi ngabanye abantu kuwe ngokuthoma
owangene e aeropleyini, kuwe ngokuthoma ugwala
phesheya konke e kwenze nje , uthini ngalokho wena ,
yazi uyisibonelo wena kwabanye . Hawu ngaloshiyo,
ngendlela le engathini ngalokho
from where you are, do you just do it, did it
happen in your inner self, and do you feel
gratitude? How did it happen, do you rejoice
in these things, I'm telling you it's like we're
all rejoicing, I'm telling you to come, or
whatever I'm doing is heard by these.
They will be able to understand that things
that happen in your life, they say there are
people who are pulling it, and others who are
running away in your inner self, does it enter
or exit in a certain way in the realm of your
thoughts. One thing that I can't think about a
little is the matter of hearing them say it has
been a long time without getting to where.
ou're asking about Mandela, that he emerged
from prison and many people helped in the
struggle against apartheid, and it was a great
joy, right? At the time when that happened,
were you still young and do you remember? I
didn't understand properly, that's why I
asked, because I saw it when I was still quite
young, relating to each other and coming
together because of what was happening
there.
Thomas says they learned there that you are
the one chosen to represent when others
choose someone to board the airplane, to
you they entrust everything to do with flying
abroad. What do you say about that, you
know you are an example to others. Wow,
that's impressive, in the way that it is
0:36:02 Joana Kade ubefunukuphuma?Mina? iye ngifunukuphuma .
uzabuya? Ayi kwaba kuyophela nini?
0:36:50 Esther Mahlangu Bathi ungafuna ukuphumula , ungaphumula nje
katshana bese sizoceda noma sicubeke nje secede?
Angisabuyi. Yiyecinisiyo liyafunakala angithi . Angisabuyi
ngizokwenzani lamzini babuzile bacede kodwa
ngizothatha phi indaba?Asicubeke njalo ungakakhambi
sebuzena secede masiye ndlini . Wena ngogwala wonke
lokho wena uthini ngongane kakhuluma . Mina uklale
ukuhhaba , thina sithokoza abamsophe bona
abasiphekelele imphilo emphende, sasuka ehlabathini
sangenemphende, jabulile enkulu ngoba kunelento
kuyangisiza asiyinto lowo efuna komango
0:38:24 Joana Ke bvangitshela ngalokho hlabahlabahla babuye laphi
labantu aba, labantu aba, babuye e Jayimani , angithi
wena wagwala imoto lowaya, ngiyavuma , ngabantu ke
kade baphethe igolobo , umadolo, yebo , yizangathi
umadolo nabakhi ndlulena yibo laba , abakhindlulu yana
0:39:18 Thomas Girst Yibo ke laba abakhi ndlu le wena wabagwalela
umotorolo manje bafunukuthi wena wumbuyiso lezo
kwakho le Cape Town , uyenzeka ukuthi umotorolo lana
ubayifake esikepheni uze la umbere kwaze kwazibonela
wena ngalento engangibi la,
0:40:14 Joana uHalo wathi ukuthi ukwenzeka kamnandi la kaze nobabili
kade nibebunisana , kade yingali kuthi uthathe mbala,,
ngisele kakha name ngikhulu, kusho kuthi
You've been wanting to go back for a while?
Me? Yes, I want to go back. Will you return?
When will it happen?
They say you want to rest, just rest a bit, then
we'll help or just look after, secede? I'm not
coming back. The truth is sought after, isn't
it? I'm not coming back, what will I do there?
Let's just keep going, don't worry, let's go
home. You, the wanderer, what are you
saying? As for me, I'm sleeping, we rejoice for
those who have paved the way for us in life.
We come from the earthly realm with joy
because there is something that will help us,
something desired by many.
I'm telling you about the wanderers who have
returned, where are they from, those people,
they returned from Germany. I hear that you
drove a car, I agree. These are people who
have long held the steering wheel, the driver,
yes, it seems like the driver and the builder,
they are the ones.
They are the ones who built the house, and
you drove a car for them. Now they want you
to be the driver in Cape Town. It can happen
that the car here may have been put on
display or showcased, and you might have
seen it with something that I am not aware
of.
Halo said that it was nice here when we were
both younger, we used to interact, it's not
like it is now where you would take offense. I
 akangangithaphi le, ngiyabuya kizenimkhulu kithi
Muhhalula lapha nibe ndlanu, awulaphaya abeleke kuthi
isobekwa kwasuke kwasukelela , kaze kamnandi kuluba
zange ke silwe zange ke siyenzi le
0:41:14 Thomas Girst Nihlanganisa amagwal, yebo sihlanganimis amagwala
0:41:46 Joana Ufuna ukwazi kuthi nabakahle kangaka imbala imihle,
magwala umahle kodwa kwabanye abantu ki
asibonakali lutho manje nibenezimu imbala le emihle
ibaningi kangaka kwenzeyiwa lokho kubuya phi? Hawu
ugwala wabanye bathandi baba, abanye bathanda
abanalakho kwabanalakho, thina sithandi Ndebele
sokuyazi . iNdebele sasikehelaki isimi, angithi Amanda
ngathi kuwetshana kweZulu . Iye baya, Manje imbala le
ibuya phi? Khona utshehelo, umtshehelo , khona
umtshehelo wemzanzi , phethenitshe lona wemhawelo
ukuphi lapho kwenzakalani lapho
0:42:50 Esther Mahlangu Angithi kwaba nomhelelo babanikela ehhuluyini,
ehhulwini khona umtshgehelo ohhulwin, ehhulwini
khona kwamaNdebele sekhona ke omtshehelo ,
ehhulwini vel, lona kade nga bekhona, laba kade
bengabekhona, Ingani kakho kade ngazi
also contributed my part and grew up here. It
means that he has no issues with me. I'll
come back to visit you all in Muhhalula,
where we were five. Don't overburden
yourselves with unnecessary things, it used to
be nice before it changed.
You gather experiences, yes, we accumulate
experiences
Do you want to know why some people
admire a certain beautiful skin color, while
others find it not as appealing? Well, people
have different preferences; some love what
they don't have, and others appreciate what
they have. We, the Ndebele people, love and
appreciate our Ndebele culture. Ndebele is
unique, just as Zulu is unique. Yes, there is
diversity. Now, where does this beautiful skin
color come from? There's heritage, there's a
mix of heritage. It's a blend of different
cultures, a blend of beautiful traditions.
Wherever it comes from, it's a representation
of our rich and diverse heritage.
It seems there is a hierarchy or system of
recognition in 'ehhuluyini' or 'ehhulwini.' In
this place, there is a value system, and among
the Ndebele, there is also a form of
recognition. In 'ehhulwini,' yes, there has
always been one, those who were always
there. Those who were present and those
who were not present. Perhaps this is
something I knew a long time ago.
0:44:40 Joana Ngisabacazela ngokuthi ehholweni, ngicazela kanjalo
kuthi kwenzekalani namandla esukakhera khona lapho
lamandla la apho kuma enhizweni nencondweni
ngamaNdebele kuze phuma lapha ngokwenu kwibalila
nje kuthi yiquba yibakela phambili ngomberegolo
kwabaphansi izakhe ngaphi kwenu
0:46:20 Esther Mahlangu Ukumbuza ke ngokwaye, uyogwala ke lapha ko1989
indawo yokuthoma yokuthi amagwalo aphume la
emzanzi ayephetsheya kumbere kwako yoyowenza
ibuphuma kuwo omkhulu ukhuluma ngawo lewoypo ke,
ukuthi umbuyiso yozabokhona ezimishi into ebakhuluma
ngayo ukuzazifaka khona lapho nokuthi ucubeke njani
emva kalokho ewokuthi wenzani ucubembere kwako
ekuphio ngaphambi
0:48:39 Joana Ukhulume ngokuthi umagwala ibonda nje nogwala
ukuphethe Ikamva engaka ejele kuhluke phi, ikwenzeka
into okwehluko na ujabuleya ibale ibodolela uhlezi
phathi ugwala uba imehluko . Awa uthe uhlala phansi
nokujaba nokujaba , okubhedela usabuka ngaphasi
umasi lapho uyadinga , manje na uhlezi phasi kitlabalele
iduze .
0:52:17 Esther Mahlangu Ngakuzwa kuzwana kuphi zonke zindawo zesi
egadiuzitsho , kiyophi indawo noma engahamba
ukhumbula kakhulu ocabanga kuthi uthe lapha wajabula
kade bemnandi , Aba mina konke abangiphathe kuhle,
abangiphathe kuhle . babuza masidla siyokuthi
tshapulelo ungahlupheka uzimbingi emphatho ngasinye .
I was explaining to them about 'ehholweni,'
asking how strength is demonstrated or what
kind of power is displayed there, where the
strength in the heart and spirit of the
Ndebele people is evident. It seems like it's a
matter of leading from the front with
authority, transcending from those below,
creating a path forward. Where does this
strength come from in your view?
Reminiscing about 1989, it is said that the
place where traditions emerged in the south
was remarkable. A prominent elder speaks
about the traditions that were discussed,
emphasizing the importance of preserving
them. The elder talks about the practices and
how they should continue into the future,
ensuring that they are upheld and
progressed.
Speak about how 'magwala' is just a glimpse
into the future, and how preserving cultural
traditions is essential. It explores the
differences and the joy that comes with
embracing and safeguarding traditions. It
mentions the aspect of staying grounded and
connected to the roots, adapting when
necessary, and continuing to thrive.
I hear that there are many places in this
world, and wherever you go, you remember
fondly the places where you were happy and
things were enjoyable. For me, everyone who
treated me well, treated me well. They asked
us to eat, saying we will cook a feast, and you

0:53:013 Joana Kanti kumbe bangangitsheli ukuze bazo suka bengibuzi
nje . Ubuza ukuthi lapha kade ukhona, ubayiphi indawo
noma seyarisi, noma bekuphi lawathanda khona
wakheka kuphi ndawo . Awa kuyafana abamhlongo
kubuhle konke
0:54:01 Thomas Girst Uthokozile, lababantu bahlupha phasi , njengabathandi
uncinci suke , bazzwuletha lapha ukuze nje zaphumayo
lapho khona babuye emzini zabo. Bayathandi wena,
bazithokozile bayzithandi , ezezihlu dlala beziphuza
imdlala, sizayicala ke thina ke kade bangayikuphi
sizoyifunda nawe ke uze kuthi ithi ingibi lokuthi
labagama lakho la akekho amagama abafakileyo
abangeko aba
0:55:28 Joana Besibona ukuthi besindlu lakho na akukho kuningi
bakufakile akho , afuna ungasiNdebele lana angithi.
Angithi umawungapheshe isikhabo nawo uyavuma
khpona kutshtshana uyaziyazi uma ungaphetshe ,
yabona a French lawo , yoh a French laba
0:56:43 Thomas Girst Umbuzo okugcina
0:57:05 Joana Khona kade abagwala aboneka phansi kuthi umbere
kwako yona iyenzeka koyini? Waphendula wathi kimi
umbereko yona kimi yo okunike yona yithemba
nakubona kuthi umbere kwakho lo ngibona kuthi
ithemba , wena nokubona wakho ubonani?
won't go hungry; it's a celebration that uplifts
the spirit together.
But perhaps they don't tell me where they've
been, and I just ask. Asking where you used to
be, where you liked to go, and where you
found your place. Ah, it's all similar, the
beauty of everything.
You are delighted, those people who radiate
positivity, like those who love
unconditionally. They come to you just to
bring joy when they return to their homes.
They love you, they genuinely love you, they
play in their homes, and we will learn from
them too. So that your name will be
remembered not by the names you put on
others, but by those who genuinely care.
We have noticed that there aren't many
people in your home who want to speak
Ndebele. It seems like someone agrees that
you shouldn't force them, and they might
prefer French
The last question
There have always been sick people seen
below; what is happening with your healing?
You replied to me, saying your healing is like a
gift of hope for me to see that your healing is
something I see as hope. When you see
yourself, what do you see? So, there are
people who want your healing; what do you

0:57:29 Esther Mahlangu Sokuthi kukhona abantu laba abafuna umbere kwakho
lawa uyenza ngokuyini? Ungakwenza khona
umberekwakho yini into ongonike khona themba, uma
ngibonekhona ngibona nje ithemba. Wena ngokubona
kwakho ubona ni? Nangombere leka lokho , ngizobona
njani uma ngibona umbere ngajabula musi igwalile
mhlambe nizengoba neminyanya njabulo nize apha
kwealile ku
0:58:28 Joana Bathokozile uthembululani, yabona ndifundile, ubonisa ,
siyathokoza bayathokoza khona uphendule njenge ento
le angithi, ngilalele, sokulindelele ngokokwaMandela
ohlanganiphe nebiss adla ke ne vorosi, thina sidla
ngezandla ibisi idla ngezandla. Ngithathi bisi lapha
ngifake lapha komutzi sengithathe
do for them? Can you provide your healing?
What is the thing you offer there as hope? If I
see it, I see only hope. When I see your
healing, I am happy, as it has prevailed for a
long time, and you are as joyful as the early
morning. How do you see yourselves?
So that there are people who want something
from you, what do you do about those who
make requests from you? Can you do
something for your requesters, what can you
offer them hope, if I see it, I only see hope.
What do you see when you look at yourself?
Even if it's pride, how will I see it when I see
the hope, you are happy as soon as it has
happened, because of the joy of fruits and
happiness, you come to the place of
happiness.
It seems you are pleased, why are you
pleased, I've learned, you show, we are happy
there, answer like something that I don't
know, I'll sleep, we are waiting, like Mandela
who unites with a piece of bread and a bottle,
we eat with our hands, she eats with her
hands. I take bread here and put it in the
sauce, then I take it