04 September.
Time-code Speaker Transcription
0:00:39 Thomas Girst Phela abantu bayathokoza kakhulu kuthi bavumele
benze lapha, bazokwenza bafunukukwenza nibe
bafunukukwenza nje ngokuthi bafundile kakhulu kulu
ngayo mbele ngako ehe nokuningi nje ubuyincwadi
efane bayibhalwe nawe sayifaka into ngako wonke
nemimcabanga wakho yonke izinto engondweni lakho
kuye izakhombela la nezimishi le ubuyiso kozabase Cape
Town la ne BM babakayiletha ngoko mbere kwayo
bayiboleke abantu bayoyithenga bazokuthi ngambere
kwako ebathi bayathokoza kakhulu ukuthi ubavumele
ukuthi babe la bathi bathoma ke babuzeka zakhona
ufunukubuza
0:01:29 Joana Ayi zathokoza, ngizekuthini ke mara indaba ungazasi ayi
ngathokoza ngokuza kwa la ngimphasela mphasela
thokoza
0:02:58 Esther Mahlangu Bafuna ukukwazi ukuthi wathoma njani ukwaloku ngoba
laba funde khona ngokuthi umma wakufundisa no gogo
wakufundisa nabanye ukuthi wasuka njani
0:03:16 Joana Mma ka Mbela, kanti u mma ka Mbela ngawuphi,
uyesahlamba, nganje.Awu wasuka njani
0:03:30 Thomas Girst Wathoma njani wasikima nje wagwala ngobani
abakuthatha bakubeka ngakuthi ugwala
Translated in English Notes
People are very grateful that you allowed
them to do this; they will do it gladly, not just
because they learned a lot before, but also
because they have a lot of respect for you
and many ideas in your mind. Everything in
your heart, they will follow and the principles
of your leadership. They will go to Cape Town
and bring it forward; they will thank you very
much for allowing them to be here. When
they say it, they are proud of it, and when
they are asked about it, they will gladly
answer with what they have learned.
No, they are grateful. What should I say now?
The matter you don't know, I will tell you. I
won't be grateful now for coming here to
greet you, I will be grateful later when I
explain the matter to you."
They want to know how you started this,
because those who learned there, your
mother taught you, and your grandmother
taught you, and others, want to know how
you began.
Mother of Mbela, where is the mother of
Mbela from? She is humble, indeed. How did
she start?
How did you start? Did you just decide, or did Agrees with the
someone take you and put you there, saying, speaker

0:03:38 Joana Angithi thina sasidlala namandla njani njani , dlale
mandla dlani uyachama khona lapha kwenze njani
okwenza nje ngoba ubona kuthi lapha ngisekwe nje
kwakohomaKhoba bafundisa ube no gogo wakho yabona
unawu unehloko thakatha uyatyhatha uyayenza into
leyo, ake ngesiba hayi nge pencil ngesibali lenkunku
0:05:12 Thomas Girst So Ura lo ubuye Nigeria uthi yena ke ufunukukwazi
ukuthi imbala le enigwala ngayo kade nikera kuphi?
Imbala? Yah yonke imibala le isarulani njani kuthi
nikeraphi njani
0:05:36 Joana Angithi ugwala loku njenge amabala kwathi karolayini
inzima iyoyenza njani , Sasithole emlanjeni ehe imgothi
ibe emgothi nembe khona nithole hlukene nithathe nize
ekhaya faka umlombe phakathi nefoni nibe gangayothe
umlonge
0:06:19 Esther Mahlangu Nafaka umlongo, nibenzani ne umlongo?
0:06:23 Joana Yabamba kuthi izulu kunakho kuthi zungasehulukwe
0:07:00 Esther Mahlangu Uthi imbala le kuithi k imbala le ke liyadaluleka
kuthi izogwala uzokulisa abalubuluhle na kuthi
iyabiuyaphi ngoba, emalnjeni,
Carry this? comments.
Didn't we play with strength, like this, play
with strength, show off there, how did it
happen, what did you do, because you see,
where I was taken, it was just too difficult.
Khoba, they taught you, and your
grandmother saw it. You have a skill, you're
skillful, you can do that thing, let it be with a
brush, not just with a pencil, with the ink of
the teacher."
So, Ura, when you returned to Nigeria, did
you say that you wanted to be able to know
the color you used to carry long ago? The
color? Yes, all the colors, how do they appear,
where did you get them, how did you use
them?
It seems that carrying things, like colors, is
challenging, much like how a heavy Carolina
fabric would be. We found something by the
water perhaps a stick or a branch and noticed
a difference when you obtained it. Then,
bring it home and place a figurine inside the
phone while discussing it
0:07:13 Joana Emlanjeni nenzima zokuthatha umlambo nayo leyo
emhlophe nithatha kumlambo mhlophe angithi
yonke into ibe umlambo nakhon igijime inemva
kunomgothi lapha khona lapho
0:08:02 Esther Mahlangu Kuse kuthi bafunukwazi kuthi nawotshiya ke mbala
le lesindu thatha ke bathwa e akrilin, ukwaba njani
usuka lapho bese usungene kuthi ke isigaba
sokulekekisa lapha imibala ekenjwa
0:08:23 Joana Uthi kwaba njani, wau wa kwaba njani kuzoba njani
kumayela nje nibeleka kwenzima, nibeleka
ngesarulani, ngibeleka ngemhlophe, imakhalawayo
ke ngamvanga lomlongwe phethe niyagwala ke
ngayo ngithathe ngifakele, iyakhonas kuthi ifaka
kuthi khona uyabona
0:09:14 Esther Mahlangu So ufunukwazi ukthi usuke njani ebaleni le nikeriya
kuphi ke emlanjeni sobe belekiza ke amaphindi
lawa thola umabodleleni umathombi, wathoma nini
ukubelekiza
0:09:33 Joana Ah ngezengasho kuthi ngathoma nini ngebelekiza
izinto nje sengazi kuthi ngibelekeza ngazo kwanga
lomlongwe zanjani kade ka ngazo , ngenze ngathi
ngazo zathoma hlabangithe ethile,
0:10:43 Esther Mahlangu Imbala eningi angithi yiyophi umbala othanda kakhulu?

0:10:47 Joana Awo ngithanda yonke ngoba iyezwana angithi,

ioyezwana mizmba, beka lo uyazi ungahlanga loko
uyazwana kubuhle .
0:11:00 Thomas Girst Ayikho khona othama khona kuthi ayui nako yona
engi. Hawu sengitho kuthi, ngazi nzima zonke, uma
ngiyenzi imali leya ngifaka i-colour leya ngifaka ibe
ne colour le ziyazwana
0:12:05 Joana Uthi azona umbere kwako lo uzwa njena intsingwi
emnandi ngako ngathi bacula nje, imbala akho le
ikhuluma njenge khada, ikhuluma nakho ngakonke ,
uthini ngalokho?
0:12:31 Thomas Girst Uthi umculo lo iyenza njani kuwe, ungena njani
lapho uphuma njani. Lapho khona ngambiza , ngase
kwazi kuthi nangibekelela into leyeya ngibeka
ngaleyazi izwana, beka naleya yazi azizwani naleya
anizwana phela nje , abanye babona ke ngokuthi
izimu unjani
0:14:00 Esther Mahlangu Kuthi loko asila eh ufude belikhulu ngomtwana
egwala ngoko baningi abantu bangabalilekho ,
ingaya kuthi ithaka ngani kuthi ingane egoloko
uyimpilo lakho, nhlale nhlizini yakho , njengoba
njke una 87 uma ungabona umntwana oneminyaka
oyi 10 ethi uthuni njengayo kuthwa
njengokokwenzayo , yini ungabuyi encono
ungabeke lakho uma ubusemncane . Ah mna asiki
ngifusana hwe, uthi uma ngikungaka . Yah
ukhuluma ngako kuthi ma unabantwana abancane
bathoma ukwenza mbere golo okwangawo, uzwani
wena? Ukunakelela nhiziyo nako , Kumnandi njani
ka? Kumnandi kumnandi ngithi ba bazokukhamba
lapha ukhambe khona
0:15:20 Joana Bahlanganiphile aba
0:16:09 Thomas Girst Seba funukwazi ngokutshabele ngokuthi itshabele
yindawo yenjani, yiyathoma kunjani kade be,
Itshabelo iza, iza
0:16:22 Joana Oh Ayetshabelo, angithi, ngisholo, ngisholoko
ngayo wayetshabelo, tshwaya, uzazikhulumelela
yena yabona kuyi yini.
0:17:00 Esther Mahlangu Bese swelelika naye itshabelo hawu, iuswelelika
nawe , iswelelika ngayo sonke lapha , lotho, thoko
baya lutho kuthisa yena bayabuphetshe, iyo
ngathokoza , nje uyazi mema ke uhlengathi
ukhulume nje ngabele kanjani eh, Tshabelo,
ungayenza njani lana kade, lalala usukhumbuze ,
Yah nosawuyi Tshabelo kwenza ikuwela nomuNguni
bazothatha umhhabo laba , nabathatha umhhaba
laba komkhaba bonke ,mina ngiyezi Jamaica,
nibafika ngikwamile ohhaba bathi mkhango
kweyela siTshabelo kuthi sokwenza aba
sokumuleka sokuthi lomagamasakwela ke,safike
eTshabelo , safike eTshabelo samangala basakuzi
kwakhiwe , ehe usakhiwa sokuhlukana , ehe ngafika
lapha bathi ngasihlaba indlu kuyenzindlu sebekelile
sasizwa ke ngahlaba nje , inhlaba sengokuyoko ,
safika khona sase lapho khona , ingastethi sidla ke ,
sasuka ke basinike imphende, imphende sagwala ke
ngobugwala , Sijabulela kakhulu
0: 19:25 Thomas Girst So banikhumbisana lapha ke, nenza nika funi gwala
le? Yah ugwala ngokukwanyaka safunda
 sisebancane sisekhaya lapho sisebancane
sabonbiswa nabo gogpo, Sakha amandlwane
njengoba umkhayeba sasishiyindlu sisebesakha
amandlwa kusasike ugogo yagwala lapha umama
uyagwala lapha hlabe lapha uhlaka uhhweba
isantsha kwake kululeka kwengane cuzu uzogwala
uyaxalankala uyagwala iuyagwala uyagwala dot into
le liyangena , Uyazi ifuna , izufa uthuma into
ioyothathi ibeg le sarulani nimehlabathi sise
nehlabathi ngaze nemihlabthi luyalwekele
sebabona isarulani isuyini naso sebe nayo khona ,
Ikhona sarulani isiyiskhama , Doti wenzani isarulani
sikuphi? Kodwa ake basilethe ke
0:21:29 Joana Musa baphi babangabonakali bathathi beg ye
sarulani ingekephi gijima uyidal isarulani
0:22:04 Esther Mahlangu Sobathi indaba yokhela kuthi khona ninzenzele nina
into enikeyakho ukutshile nawe kuthi lokuthi
kusehlala eh egazini zakho encongondweni zakho
ise inguwe
0:22:33 Joana Lethi kokanje I black ileyazi, angithi ungenaliphi
ithunga ne lesarulani, Ayi ngisebeza ngathi sikhona
nendaba yayokuyifuna , beka lapha kuyitshaba
0:23:30 Thomas Girst Ningaki imibala engaphuma nihlala bonisayo? Hayi
yilokho ibuneke nje , inje ngoba ihlukene , ngithe balethi
inhlabathi sebenzisa ihlabathi, mamko ngalethi
ihlabathi , yiyo le, ngithe eyiphuphu, ikuphi, emva
kwemnyango laphaya kunethunga , kuyathunga yah,
inesarulani ine iya inesarulani
0:25:55 Joana Uthi uThomas ufundile koningi obalwe ngawe
ukuthi imbala le eh isuthini iyobeka kuwe abanye
bathi konke lokho ngathi buka ihlubanapha
yokungenela lapha encono lapho uzathini
ngalokho ,. Uyena babaphansi , abe abe abeba
hlaba bamgonganekanye nabo mzini abagwala
bekelele nibengenge nehlabathi iye , ngathi
Thomas ngathi namhlanje siningi, hawu yinto
zabantu abadala
0:28:10 Esther Mahlangu Uthi laba sokuthuluka sucubeka se into yathoma
ingabeza ngaphambili , manje uyabuza ukuthi
njengoba la amagwala lola akuna bantu
akunalwani, akuna mkhukhu, kukhuluma njani?
Akuna mkhukhu, awalathi sisukwenza izinto
ebebeka ngayo inzima ngathi siyenza into eyona
ngathi siphila ngayo yona . imphilisa njani? Kuhle
kamnandi khona phela, umnchama sumnchama
labphothela uyazi ukuthi ukwengalokho,
kwengalokho , lokho sioyazi kuthi izwana
nobulongwe phelela neglabo
0:30:48 Unknown Speaker Babuza ngokuthi la, ma ucala umberegolo noma .
sokuyenza ilayini odrowa lona enjeke lapha lithini
noma ubona kuthi lihlezi lihlambe yonke,
kwenzakalani kuthi dosa ube onje, yini lokho ke,
awukhoni into ekhumbulayo, encanini bakho noma
kuphi nawenza nje, kwenzakali encondweni yakho
nakubuleka? Kwenzakala njani nithokoza nalezi ma
ngikuyidosa ke zakithi kungathi kunakale
nithokozana ma ngidosa , ayi kuthi bathi ngize,
 noma nento engiyenza kuzwayo lawa
0:32:27 Esther Mahlangu Bazofunukwazi ukuthi izinto ezinzenzakalayo
empilweni akho basithi khona abantu abayayidunza
nabo abanye abaya baleka encondweni akho
kuyangena na, nagena kuphuma njani la
embelekweni. Izinto enye engayicabnga
ngekancane yindaba zokuzizwa bathi kade angina
lapho
0:33:49 Joana Uyabuza ngokuthi uMandela uyaphuma ejele
nabantu ananingi sebatshaphulula ejele inahha
ijabule ekhulukhulu , inga, ngokwesikhathi
sokwenzeka lokho kade ugwala ni uyakhumbula?
Angizwanga ngazegangani ngakho ngapho ngi
ngoba ngazibona nga bengi bengingangane ngoku
bambelana ngophumana ngobekwenzeka aha
0:35:07 Esther Mahlangu Uthi uThomas u laba bafunde khona ngaba zwawo
ukuthi nguwe wokuthomoa okhethe
inyangaphelekwe ngesikhathi ngabanye abantu
kuwe ngokuthoma owangene e aeropleyini, kuwe
ngokuthoma ugwala phesheya konke e kwenze nje ,
uthini ngalokho wena , yazi uyisibonelo wena
kwabanye . Hawu ngaloshiyo, ngendlela le
engathini ngalokho
0:36:02 Joana Kade ubefunukuphuma?Mina? iye
ngifunukuphuma . uzabuya? Ayi kwaba kuyophela
nini?
0:36:50 Esther Mahlangu Bathi ungafuna ukuphumula , ungaphumula nje
katshana bese sizoceda noma sicubeke nje secede?
 Angisabuyi. Yiyecinisiyo liyafunakala angithi .
Angisabuyi ngizokwenzani lamzini babuzile bacede
kodwa ngizothatha phi indaba?Asicubeke njalo
ungakakhambi sebuzena secede masiye ndlini .
Wena ngogwala wonke lokho wena uthini
ngongane kakhuluma . Mina uklale ukuhhaba ,
thina sithokoza abamsophe bona abasiphekelele
imphilo emphende, sasuka ehlabathini
sangenemphende, jabulile enkulu ngoba kunelento
kuyangisiza asiyinto lowo efuna komango
0:38:24 Joana Ke bvangitshela ngalokho hlabahlabahla babuye
laphi labantu aba, labantu aba, babuye e Jayimani ,
angithi wena wagwala imoto lowaya, ngiyavuma ,
ngabantu ke kade baphethe igolobo , umadolo,
yebo , yizangathi umadolo nabakhi ndlulena yibo
laba , abakhindlulu yana
0:39:18 Thomas Girst Yibo ke laba abakhi ndlu le wena wabagwalela
umotorolo manje bafunukuthi wena wumbuyiso
lezo kwakho le Cape Town , uyenzeka ukuthi
umotorolo lana ubayifake esikepheni uze la umbere
kwaze kwazibonela wena ngalento engangibi la,
0:40:14 Joana uHalo wathi ukuthi ukwenzeka kamnandi la kaze
nobabili kade nibebunisana , kade yingali kuthi
uthathe mbala,, ngisele kakha name ngikhulu,
kusho kuthi akangangithaphi le, ngiyabuya
kizenimkhulu kithi Muhhalula lapha nibe ndlanu,
awulaphaya abeleke kuthi isobekwa kwasuke
kwasukelela , kaze kamnandi kuluba zange ke silwe
 zange ke siyenzi le
0:41:14 Thomas Girst Nihlanganisa amagwal, yebo sihlanganimis
amagwala
0:41:46 Joana Ufuna ukwazi kuthi nabakahle kangaka imbala
imihle, magwala umahle kodwa kwabanye abantu
ki asibonakali lutho manje nibenezimu imbala le
emihle ibaningi kangaka kwenzeyiwa lokho kubuya
phi? Hawu ugwala wabanye bathandi baba, abanye
bathanda abanalakho kwabanalakho, thina sithandi
Ndebele sokuyazi . iNdebele sasikehelaki isimi,
angithi Amanda ngathi kuwetshana kweZulu . Iye
baya, Manje imbala le ibuya phi? Khona utshehelo,
umtshehelo , khona umtshehelo wemzanzi ,
phethenitshe lona wemhawelo ukuphi lapho
kwenzakalani lapho
0:42:50 Esther Mahlangu Angithi kwaba nomhelelo babanikela ehhuluyini,
ehhulwini khona umtshgehelo ohhulwin, ehhulwini
khona kwamaNdebele sekhona ke omtshehelo ,
ehhulwini vel, lona kade nga bekhona, laba kade
bengabekhona, Ingani kakho kade ngazi
0:44:40 Joana Ngisabacazela ngokuthi ehholweni, ngicazela
kanjalo kuthi kwenzekalani namandla esukakhera
khona lapho lamandla la apho kuma enhizweni
nencondweni ngamaNdebele kuze phuma lapha
ngokwenu kwibalila nje kuthi yiquba yibakela
phambili ngomberegolo kwabaphansi izakhe ngaphi
kwenu
0:46:20 Esther Mahlangu Ukumbuza ke ngokwaye, uyogwala ke lapha ko1989
indawo yokuthoma yokuthi amagwalo aphume la
emzanzi ayephetsheya kumbere kwako yoyowenza
ibuphuma kuwo omkhulu ukhuluma ngawo
lewoypo ke, ukuthi umbuyiso yozabokhona ezimishi
into ebakhuluma ngayo ukuzazifaka khona lapho
nokuthi ucubeke njani emva kalokho ewokuthi
wenzani ucubembere kwako ekuphio ngaphambi
0:48:39 Joana Ukhulume ngokuthi umagwala ibonda nje nogwala
ukuphethe Ikamva engaka ejele kuhluke phi,
ikwenzeka into okwehluko na ujabuleya ibale
ibodolela uhlezi phathi ugwala uba imehluko . Awa
uthe uhlala phansi nokujaba nokujaba , okubhedela
usabuka ngaphasi umasi lapho uyadinga , manje na
uhlezi phasi kitlabalele iduze .
0:52:17 Esther Mahlangu Ngakuzwa kuzwana kuphi zonke zindawo zesi
egadiuzitsho , kiyophi indawo noma engahamba
ukhumbula kakhulu ocabanga kuthi uthe lapha
wajabula kade bemnandi , Aba mina konke
abangiphathe kuhle, abangiphathe kuhle . babuza
masidla siyokuthi tshapulelo ungahlupheka
uzimbingi emphatho ngasinye .
0:53:013 Joana Kanti kumbe bangangitsheli ukuze bazo suka
bengibuzi nje . Ubuza ukuthi lapha kade ukhona,
ubayiphi indawo noma seyarisi, noma bekuphi
lawathanda khona wakheka kuphi ndawo . Awa
kuyafana abamhlongo kubuhle konke
0:54:01 Thomas Girst Uthokozile, lababantu bahlupha phasi ,
 njengabathandi uncinci suke , bazzwuletha lapha
ukuze nje zaphumayo lapho khona babuye emzini
zabo. Bayathandi wena, bazithokozile bayzithandi ,
ezezihlu dlala beziphuza imdlala, sizayicala ke thina
ke kade bangayikuphi sizoyifunda nawe ke uze
kuthi ithi ingibi lokuthi labagama lakho la akekho
amagama abafakileyo abangeko aba
0:55:28 Joana Besibona ukuthi besindlu lakho na akukho kuningi .
bakufakile akho , afuna ungasiNdebele lana angithi.
Angithi umawungapheshe isikhabo nawo uyavuma
khpona kutshtshana uyaziyazi uma ungaphetshe ,
yabona a French lawo , yoh a French laba
0:56:43 Thomas Girst Umbuzo okugcina
0:57:05 Joana Khona kade abagwala aboneka phansi kuthi
umbere kwako yona iyenzeka koyini? Waphendula
wathi kimi umbereko yona kimi yo okunike yona
yithemba nakubona kuthi umbere kwakho lo
ngibona kuthi ithemba , wena nokubona wakho
ubonani?
0:57:29 Esther Mahlangu Sokuthi kukhona abantu laba abafuna umbere
kwakho lawa uyenza ngokuyini? Ungakwenza
khona umberekwakho yini into ongonike khona
themba, uma ngibonekhona ngibona nje ithemba.
Wena ngokubona kwakho ubona ni? Nangombere
leka lokho , ngizobona njani uma ngibona umbere
ngajabula musi igwalile mhlambe nizengoba
neminyanya njabulo nize apha kwealile ku
0:58:28 Joana Bathokozile uthembululani, yabona ndifundile,
ubonisa , siyathokoza bayathokoza khona
uphendule njenge ento le angithi, ngilalele,
sokulindelele ngokokwaMandela ohlanganiphe
nebiss adla ke ne vorosi, thina sidla ngezandla ibisi
idla ngezandla. Ngithathi bisi lapha ngifake lapha
komutzi sengithathe