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Crystallization of homemade sodium acetate

by indigoandblack on December 10, 2007

Table of Contents

Crystallization of homemade sodium acetate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1

Intro: Crystallization of homemade sodium acetate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2

Step 1: Preparation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2

Step 2: Combining baking soda with vinegar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Step 3: What's going on here? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Step 4: Boiling down the solution . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Step 5: Boiling, continued... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Step 6: Purification with activated charcoal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Step 7: Adding activated charcoal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Step 8: Removing activated charcoal granules . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6

Step 9: First filtering to remove most carbon particles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6

Step 10: Second filtering to remove (most) remaining carbon particles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7

Step 11: Final filtering step . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8

Step 12: Final boiling - evaporating excess water . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9

Step 13: Final boiling - when to stop . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10

Step 14: Cooling solution . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11

Step 15: Try it out! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11

Step 16: Additional purification . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13

Related Instructables . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13

Comments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Intro: Crystallization of homemade sodium acetate
(Updated - see end, below)

If you've ever wanted to play around with sodium acetate, but you're too much of a nerd to simply go online and buy some from a chemical supply house - noooo, that'd
be too easy, you want to make it, from scratch - then this instructable is for you.

Inside, I show the whole process, from baking soda and vinegar, through concentration and filtering, to final crystallization.

(Please note that you, not I, explicitly assume all risk associated with playing with chemicals, fire, or hot things. Use common sense. If you're not an adult, enlist the help
of a parent. If you're an idiot, close your browser now before you burn yourself. And regardless, by reading any of the suggestions contained herein, you implicitly
assume full responsibility for any and all accidents, burns, lacerations, ruptured spleens, loss of consciousness, death, shin splints, hangovers, spurned advances, or
insolvency that may result. Seriously... use your brain.)

---

Update: When I first wrote this Instructable, I somehow got it in my mind that acetic acid had a boiling point that was slightly lower than water - this is incorrect! Acetic
acid (ethanoic acid) has a boiling point of 118.1 C. This may change some steps and I may amend the instructions after I've had a chance to play with a few things; for
now, though, when I talk about acetic acid boiling off in some of the steps, take it with a grain of salt (or at least sodium bicarbonate). :-)

Step 1: Preparation
We'll be making approximately 330 mL (or 11 fl oz) of supersaturated solution.

You will need the following items:

- One 16 oz box of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)

- One gallon jug of distilled white vinegar (acetic acid)
- Clean pot for boiling (5.5 Qt or larger)
- Another clean pot for filtering (4 Qt or larger)
- Pack of coffee filters (basket style, not funnel shaped)
- Small wire mesh strainer (big enough to hold a coffee filter)
- One cup measuring cup for pouring hot solution through filter
- Large clean cooking spoon for removing samples while boiling
- Small clean dark dish (e.g. custard cup) for holding samples
- Clean jar to hold final solution
- Distilled water (in case you over-boil the final solution - see step 14)

Optional Items - this is for a purification step that I found I needed (see step 6 for an explanation). If you decide to do this too, you'll need:

- Two cups granulated activated charcoal (from drug store or pet supply)
- Lab stand with burette clamp (if you have this)
- Funnel (if you have a lab stand; should be big enough to hold folded coffee filters - see step 10)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 2: Combining baking soda with vinegar
The first step is the fun part!

Start by pouring all but one cup of the white vinegar into the boiling container (5.5 Qt or larger). (See note about acids below...)

Then, carefully add baking soda to the vinegar, small amounts at a time (no more than a tablespoon). Sprinkle it over the vinegar - don't just dump it in. If you add too
much baking soda too quickly, the foam from the reaction may overflow your container.

Stir gently after each addition of baking soda to ensure no unreacted bicarbonate remains.

After adding about a half box of baking soda, you should notice the reaction starting to slow down. At this point you may want to reduce the amount of soda you're adding
each time to a teaspoon. When a teaspoon (or less) of baking soda sprinkled over the solution no longer bubbles instantly but bubbles very sluggishly as it sinks into the
liquid, it's time to stop. In my experience, it's taken roughly 12 oz of baking soda to get to this point (about 3/4 of a 16 oz box).

Finally, add the retained cup of vinegar to the liquid. Since judging the stopping point can be difficult to eyeball, I've found it helpful to withhold a small amount of vinegar
and add it after the baking soda reaction almost stops. This way, we err on the side of excess unreacted acetic acid (which will largely boil off) rather than excess
unreacted sodium bicarbonate (which will not, and can interfere with crystallization).

(Note on acids: yes yes, I know, we're all taught in science class that you never add X to acid, you add acid to X... Good! Brownie points for remembering that! This stuff,
however, is a 5% solution of acetic acid, and personally, I'm not too concerned about burning my skin off. If you're too uncoordinated to keep it out of your eyes, wear
goggles.)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 3: What's going on here?
When you mix baking soda with vinegar, what you're really doing is reacting sodium hydrogen carbonate (more commonly, sodium bicarbonate) with acetic acid. Those
components react, producing sodium acetate and carbonic acid; the carbonic acid immediately decomposes into carbon dioxide gas and water.

Step 4: Boiling down the solution

The reaction is finished, and we're left with sodium acetate dissolved in water (with a little excess acetic acid). Now, theoretically, all we have to do is boil off the excess
water until we get to a metastable supersaturated state! Ideally, anyway. I've had difficulty with this part, but let's continue...

Put the solution over medium-high heat and...

Yes, watch it boil. This isn't terribly fun.

You don't want a violent boil, but you are trying to reduce the volume of the solution, so a happy medium rolling boil should be fine.

Take note of the color of the solution when you start your boil... it should be colorless (more on that later).

The observant reader will correctly infer from the pictures that I'm making a double batch.

Step 5: Boiling, continued...

By the time you've reduced the solution to about half of its original volume, you will have noticed a color change. The solution will turn a distinct straw color, and will
deepen to gold and amber the more it's reduced.

I've never found a satisfactory explanation for the color change - almost certainly it's due to organic impurities in the vinegar, owing to the natural source of the acetic
acid.

My early attempts at getting the solution to a metastable supersaturated point all failed... I would get crystals if I let the solution cool overnight (with or without crystals
having formed immediately on the surface of the liquid), but it seemed as though I could never get a supersaturated solution that, when cooled, would immediately
crystallize when a seed crystal was introduced.

The next few steps attempt to remove as much of the impurities as possible, and it is up to you whether you want to follow them or continue boiling. (If you decide to skip
them, go to step 11.)

(Note about the liquid volume in the picture - recall that I'm making a double batch. There's about a gallon of liquid in that picture, which is half of what I started with.)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 6: Purification with activated charcoal
In this next series of steps, we'll use granulated activated charcoal to clean up any large molecules that could interfere with our desired crystallization later.

Stop boiling the solution and let it cool to at least close to room temperature. If you're impatient, you could cover the pot with a lid and set it in a sink full of cold water and
ice (or if it's cold enough outside, cover it and set it outside for a while).

Step 7: Adding activated charcoal

After the solution has cooled to near room temperature (or lower), add two cups of activated charcoal directly to the solution and stir gently for several minutes. Let it sit
for a while, maybe ten minutes or so, before moving to the next step.

(In the first picture, I'm using a 1/4 c. measure - while this should be more than enough for the liquid in the pot, after I took the picture I decided to trade charcoal for
speed, and ended up adding two cups, rather than setting up a funnel with a coffee filter to hold the charcoal, through which the solution could be poured.)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 8: Removing activated charcoal granules
We'll remove the charcoal granules and residual carbon particles in several steps.

First, pour the solution through a small wire strainer into your second pot. This will remove the granules and large particles. If you don't wish to save the charcoal for
another project, you could skip this step (the next filtering step will remove them just as well, and it won't significantly slow down that step).

Step 9: First filtering to remove most carbon particles

Now place one coffee filter in the strainer and begin pouring your solution into it. Be careful not to overfill the filter - if some of the solution overflows the filter, you'll have
that much more residual carbon to remove later. (It's not terribly important for this step, but will become extremely important in the next two filtering steps.)

After two or three fills of the filter, you'll notice the solution taking longer and longer to flow through the filter. When it slows noticeably, stop adding solution, pour the
solution remaining in the filter back into the unfiltered container if you wish, and discard and replace the filter.

Continue until all solution has been filtered once.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 10: Second filtering to remove (most) remaining carbon particles
From this step forward, cleanliness will be of utmost importance to avoid getting dust or other contaminants into the solution you're working so hard to filter.

First, heat up the solution. It doesn't have to be boiling, but a hot solution will give a higher flow rate through the filter. While it's heating, wash out the empty container
you're going to use to receive the filtered solution; if it's the one you poured the solution out of in the previous step, don't just rinse it - wash it with a little soap and a cloth
or rag, to make sure all carbon particles are removed. When you finish rinsing it out, do not dry it with a towel or anything else! Shake it out, but leave it wet.

This filtering step will use six coffee filters at a time. If you're lucky enough to have a lab stand with clamps, you can use it to hold a funnel over your receiving container
as shown in the picture (get 'em cheap at American Science & Surplus). If not, no worries - you can use your strainer instead. If you use the strainer, just be certain to
wash it carefully beforehand (again, wash - not just rinse), so that no carbon particles remain that could contaminate the filtered solution.

Place six filters, nested together, into your clean strainer and set it in position on your receiving
container; or, if you're using a funnel, fold the stack of filters the way you were taught in science class - flatten them into a circle (all together, not individually), fold the
circle in half, fold that in half again, and open one "pocket", forming the folded filters into a conical shape that fits into the funnel.

Using a one cup measuring cup (or similar small container with an appropriate lip for pouring), fill the filter with hot solution and let it drain. Keep transferring hot solution
into the filter until all solution has been filtered. If flow through the filter slows down too much, you can replace the filters. Be careful not to overfill the filter.

While you're waiting for the solution to filter, blanch one head of cabbage... (oh wait, nevermind, that was for dinner...)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 11: Final filtering step
If you've gone through the purification steps, this will be the final filtering step (if not, this is the only filtering step). The solution should be hot (if you skipped purification,
turn down the heat so the solution isn't actively boiling but is just being kept hot, and go read step 10 which talks about setting up filtering with either a strainer or a
funnel).

Clean the strainer and the receiving container and place the strainer in position (or, if using a funnel and lab stand, prepare the funnel). This filtering step will use ten
coffee filters at a time. Place ten coffee filters, nested together, into the strainer (or, folded properly, into the funnel).

Using a one cup measuring cup (or similar small container with an appropriate lip for pouring), fill the filter with hot solution and let it drain. Keep transferring hot solution
into the filter until all solution has been filtered, taking care not to overfill the filter.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 12: Final boiling - evaporating excess water
We're almost done! We've got sodium acetate dissolved in excess water; now we just have to evaporate off excess water until we get to the right ratio of sodium acetate
to water.

This part can be tricky, and it takes a fair amount of patience.

Start by bringing the solution back up to a gentle boil. Take note of how the solution "sounds" while it's boiling - specifically, how the bubbles sound. When you start to
reach saturation, you'll notice that the sound of the bubbles has changed - crinkly and crackly is the best way I can describe it.

By the time you've reduced your solution by about half (see pictures), it will have turned a golden color, and you'll see a spray of fine white powder all over the inside of
your pot (and, unfortunately, on your stovetop around the pot - fear not, this stuff is extremely easy to clean up).

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 13: Final boiling - when to stop
When your solution has been reduced by a little less than half (less than that if you're not sure), we'll begin removing very small samples to see if they crystallize.

Place several ice cubes or a quarter cup or so of crushed ice in a small bowl.

Using a clean cooking spoon (or small ladle), transfer a very small amount of solution (one to two teaspoons) into a clean custard dish or other small bowl; to watch for
crystal formation, it's best to use a dark bowl.

Cool the custard dish containing the sample by setting it on (or holding it on) the ice (first picture). After a minute or so of cooling, blow gently on the solution to see if you
can trigger crystallization. If nothing happens, you can either discard the solution or return it to the boiling solution. If you're not absolutely certain it hasn't been
contaminated with dust or anything else, it's better to discard it.

Rinse the custard dish, shake excess water off (don't dry it with a towel or cloth), and take another sample after 5-10 minutes.

Eventually, you should be rewarded by seeing long, thin crystals bloom across your sample as shown in pictures 2 and 3, below (taken about 2 seconds apart).

As soon as you see this happen, remove the solution from heat and put a lid on it!

Set the crystallized sample aside and cover it with another bowl or with plastic wrap for the moment - you'll want to save these crystals to use them as "seed" crystals
later, to trigger crystallization in the cool solution when you're done.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 14: Cooling solution
Gently pour the still-hot solution into the container you've chosen to hold the solution for cooling and crystallization. You can use a glass jar, or a flask if you have one
handy. Make sure the container is absolutely clean before pouring in the solution, and loosely cover the container (with a lid, plastic wrap, or plastic baggie).

Allow the solution to cool to room temperature. You can refrigerate it or put it in an ice water bath if you wish.

There's a small chance that some of the crystals on the side of the boiling pot could have gotten washed into your container when you transferred the solution, in which
case your solution may spontaneously crystallize while it's being cooled.

If this happens, recharge the solution while still in the same container (see the next step for instructions).

If you find that the solution still appears to contain crystals after double boiling for 20 minutes or so, it's possible that you've boiled off too much water. In this case, try
adding two teaspoons of distilled water to your solution, stirring gently with a clean spoon after adding it, and then continue double boiling for an additional 10-15 minutes.
If crystals are still visible, repeat the process - they should dissolve eventually.

Step 15: Try it out!

After your final solution has cooled to near or below room temperature (it doesn't have to be cold), it's time to see if you can trigger crystallization.

Gently set your container down on a hard surface and remove the lid or covering. Using tweezers (or clean, dry fingers), pick up one or two small crystals from the test
dish you set aside in step 13, and drop them into the solution.

You should see a mesmerizing "bloom" of long, thin crystals growing outward from the crystals you dropped into the solution, growing at maybe 1 cm / sec.

Pick up the container after crystallization finishes - note how warm it is. That's excess energy, effectively stored by the supersaturated solution, and released when the
sodium acetate crystallizes.

Note also that the crystals you see in the container are actually sodium acetate trihydrate. Once crystallization begins, one sodium ion and one acetate ion will join
together with three water molecules. If you were to gently heat these crystals, as the water is driven off, they'd turn pure white and powdery (instead of milky white and
translucent), and you'd be left with anhydrous sodium acetate.

After crystallization, recharge the solution while still in the same container by double boiling it - place the container into a pot, fill the pot with water to or just below the
level of the solution in its container, and bring the water to a boil. If your container is sealed (with a lid or stopper), you'll want to break the seal first to allow for air
expansion and contraction during heating and cooling.

Here's a video showing about 525 mL of my solution doing its thing:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
Step 16: Additional purification
As an addendum, I've discovered a simple way of further purifying the crystals, should you wish to do so. I've no pictures, but I wanted to at least add this description for
those of you obsessive enough to consider it.

I knew that sodium acetate is not very soluble at all in isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol), and it occurred to me that i could essentially "wash" away most of the impurities
from the crystals after crystallization. There's no real chemistry here - it's just the mechanical action of the liquid isopropanol that does the trick.

Crystallize your solution in a beaker or a bowl; after it's completed, use a clean glass rod or a clean fork to break up the crystals as thoroughly as possible, yielding an
amber colored mush of small crystals and remaining liquid and impurities.

Then, a couple of tablespoons at a time, "wash" the crystals with isopropanol in a coffee filter in a small strainer over an appropriate collection container. It's best if you
can use a wash bottle to hold the alcohol; otherwise, pour it in small amounts at a time. You can agitate the crystals with a glass rod or small spoon. To help with
drainage, periodically sweep away the crystals from the center area of the filter (be careful not to rip the filter doing this).

I went through approximately two liters of isopropanol to wash my entire batch of crystals. It's not very cost-effective, but it's worth the fun of learning.

After cleaning the crystals, you'll want to eliminate residual isopropanol. The only practical way to do this is to spread the crystals evenly inside a large baking dish and
heat them, driving off both the isopropanol and the water. I did mine in several small batches in my oven, at 230 degrees F or so, holding the oven open slightly by closing
it on a heat-proof trivet, which allowed some air circulation (to avoid igniting the isopropanol vapor).

Check the crystals after a half hour or so. You may need to break up still-moist areas with a spoon. As the water is driven off, the trihydrate will turn into plain sodium
acetate (anhydrous). When it's finished, it will probably be a light, puffy mass.

Once the crystals are dry, you will need to redissolve them in fresh distilled water. Use about 50% more water than the volume of the solution you started with. (That is, if
your supersaturated solution was 200 mLs, add 300 mLs.) Heat the solution to almost boiling, filter it to remove any dust or other contaminants (using 4-5 coffee filters -
see step 10), then boil off the excess water again as you did in step 12. You'll need to boil off at least the 50% extra volume of water that was added. A small amount of
sodium acetate will have been lost in the washing step, so the resulting volume of supersaturated solution will be somewhat less than what you started with.

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Comments
50 comments Add Comment view all 272 comments

julsscott says: Feb 4, 2011. 11:11 PM REPLY

can this be done as a school project? can you do the prep at home and then have a deminstration of some sort at school? How would that work,,,,,,any
suggestions?

MAR! says: Dec 28, 2010. 2:22 PM REPLY

About at what temp. should i boil this?

ycsmela says: Jan 10, 2011. 5:23 PM REPLY

I just made some 1/9/11 and I boiled over a medium heat and it came out clearer. I did 2 batches the first one I added the vinegar to the baking soda and
that batch seemed darker, but the second batch I slowly added the baking soda to vinegar and it was clearer and a different consistency of crystal
formation too. Give it a try and see what happens. Good luck. I did boil about 90 percent off too.

MAR! says: Jan 13, 2011. 4:22 PM REPLY

But yours did crystallize like it should, right? Not just dehydrate and turn to mush in the pot? My stove has numbers so to me med high is a little over
3.
Heres how 4 attempts ended in my case, help me please.

Johenix says: Jan 13, 2010. 7:16 AM REPLY

Why not use washing soda, sodium carbonate? It has twice the sodium content.

Wesley666 says: Nov 21, 2010. 12:55 PM REPLY

If the chemical formula is different it could change the reaction. It may give the same product in the same quantities, but you would have more waste
material, or you would get a bit more product but using alot more vinegar. I don't know the chemical formula for washing soda, but these are some
reasons why it might not be used...

SenileFelineS says: Jun 5, 2010. 12:02 PM REPLY

I thought that once all impurities and contaminates are removed it would turn into a slightly tinted clear solution, not stay amber colored.

SenileFelineS says: Jun 5, 2010. 12:04 PM REPLY

At least, that's what pure, lab grade sodium acetate should look like....Is there a way to achieve that?

Wesley666 says: Nov 21, 2010. 12:52 PM REPLY

If you look at store bought manufactured hot packs that use Sodium Acetate, they are almost always amber too. Don't know why but they are, so I
think its safe to say that it doesn't matter if you can get it clear or if it stays amber colored.

Wesley666 says: Nov 21, 2010. 12:49 PM REPLY

I was just screwing around and wrote out the vinegar and baking soda reaction equation and realized you could make hot packs with the product. Then I
checked Instructables to see if anyone had done it, and they had. Darn, thought I had a really good, original idea too...

Good 'Ible though! :D

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
 Erebo2005 says: Oct 8, 2010. 12:10 PM REPLY
Good, clear and simple. Thanks

h0meIandsecurity says: Nov 1, 2010. 1:26 PM REPLY

LISTEN EVERYONE!!! LISTEN, LISTEN! IF YOU WANT IT TO BE CLEAR (NOT DARK OR BROWN) YOU WILL DO ALL THE SAME BUT REDUCE
TEMPERATURE OF BOILING AND INCREASE TIME!!! :=)

ryanmuller says: May 1, 2010. 2:25 PM REPLY

All other sodium acetate I've seen dissolves clear in water... is there any way to achieve this? I need it to look like plain ordinary water.

dragon181818 says: Jun 23, 2010. 1:50 AM REPLY

For a "water" look, you will need either: laboratory grade chemicles or to buy it online. About 500 grams is like $25 If you need help, consult youtube :)

robot797 says: Apr 9, 2010. 3:53 AM REPLY

can you eat it?

briannac1 says: Feb 28, 2010. 4:52 PM REPLY

Do we HAVE to have activated charcoal?

94 says: Mar 16, 2010. 5:45 PM REPLY

No, look at NerdRage's video.

hawk 1sr says: Mar 4, 2010. 7:11 PM REPLY

i followed the directions, but some how i just have yellowish-gold substance that wont melt all the way and theres chunks of the krystals that i cant get rid of.
Your stuff was clearish, mines not. what did i do wrong?

teachme! says: Jan 31, 2010. 5:07 PM REPLY

ok im going to sound really stupid but why do the crystals get hot when they crystalise im wondering?

steed1172 says: Feb 10, 2010. 4:26 PM REPLY

it has to do with "supercooling"

Pizzapie500 says: Jan 27, 2010. 5:14 PM REPLY

Cool! But I'm not "too much of a nerd" so I bought the sodium acetate of ebay. For some reason, mine was like 20 times faster than yours, and it would go off
w/o me putting a crystal in it. I made this like a year ago and kept some in my fridge. Do you think I can bring it to school to show my teacher? Or will it go off
in my backpack?

KonstantinosM says: Jan 16, 2010. 4:36 PM REPLY

I Just wanna ask if i can use Paper towels instead of coffee filters!!! I'll comment again if I am successful P.S. If i misspelled successful or misspelled its
because i'm Greek!

eyebot117 says: Jan 13, 2010. 3:00 PM REPLY

If I dyed this as a liquid, would it have a profound effect on the color of the crystals? How brittle is this stuff? Could I make a mold with it (actual size sword
blade made of crystal) and use lapidary equipment to shape it and polish it? If so, I can think of dozens of uses for this stuff off the top of my head.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
 Luki101 says: Jan 9, 2010. 8:15 PM REPLY
Alright, so would this help me out any way in making a replica of Miss Vickies Salt and Vinegar chips? Or would the resulting precipitate be unfit for human
consumption? =P

ryguy428 says: Jun 26, 2009. 9:07 AM REPLY

For 1 gallon of white vinegar, what's the yield of dry sodium acetate? Assuming vinegar has a density of 1 g/mL, I'm getting a theoretical yield of about 250 g
sodium acetate.

corradini says: Dec 21, 2009. 11:56 AM REPLY

Water is 1g/ml; acetic acid is 1.049 g/ml; distilled white vinegar (in the US) is 5% acetic acid - easy math: 1.00245 g/ml (close enough to 1 for
government work).

Sodium Acetate is C2H3NaO2, molar mass 82.03g; density 1.528 g ml ^-1

Acetic Acid is C2H4O2, mm is 60.05, density already given above.
Sodium Bicarbonate is CHNaO3, mm 84.01, density 2.173
Water : If you (anyone, not ryguy428) don't know formula or density of water, you're NOT ready to try chemistry. Or graduate from secondary school. Or
vote. Molar mass is trickier - it's about 18.0152833 - depending on a few things... ;-)

Rxn : CH3–COOH + Na+[HCO3]– ? CH3–COO– Na+ + H2O + CO2

Do the molar balance, substitute for density, and you'll get theoretical yield.
(Hint: 84g of soda should give about 82g of sodium acetate. If you were using 8% vinegar, you'd need about 750ml. If you can make that calc come out
right, do it for 5% and you'll have your answer.)

ryguy428 says: Jan 9, 2010. 11:36 AM REPLY

Rereading my comment, I think I might have been unclear - I wondered what the ACTUAL yield was so I could figure out the efficiency of the reaction
and purification. I knew how to get the theoretical yield, I just didn't have a balance at home to measure the actual mass of the sodium acetate that I
made. :-)

But thanks for working out the stoichiometry anyway!

AndyGondorf says: Jan 9, 2010. 3:01 AM REPLY

Nice explanation of the sums! Very clear.

A tad harsh about the assumed knowledge though, there are lots of bright and creative people who don't need that info.

What things did you have in mind for the water that would affect the mass within the accuracy limits and significant figures of your other data?

corradini says: Jan 9, 2010. 10:22 AM REPLY

A) Thanks!

B) I'm reminded of the story that someone asked Einstein what the quadratic equation was and he (supposedly) said "I know where to look it up -
why should I bother memorizing it?"

<inappropriate political rant> I shudder to think, though, that one can get through high school without knowing that water is H2O, and the absolute
*basics* of the metric system (i.e., that mass, length, and volume (and, in fact, temperature and energy, by extension) are tied together by the
single, simple fact that 1 cc of water weighs (masses, actually) one gram. Now, I was being a wee bit sardonic, but -- heck, the U.S. makes
people applying for citizenship learn all kinds of stuff that (generously) 40% of voters couldn't answer. I sure don't want people voting on global
warming, stem-cell research, and energy policy, if their scientific knowledge base doesn't include the absolute scrapings from the bottom of the
barrel... ;-) </ inappropriate political rant>

More fairly - I liked Heinlein's quote (Google "specialization is for insects"). IMHO, and only my opinion, no adult in the modern world should be
considered educated without a grasp of some plurality of some basic knowledge set. Defining that is politically 'difficult' - but I stand by the
concept:

Things are made of atoms. The earth is round and goes around the sun, because of gravity. Traits that help survival get passed on. Wood burns,
which gives light, warmth, and tasty food. Men and women think and prioritize differently. (Some) germs cause (some) diseases. Too much
sunlight is bad for you (as is not enough). Stay away from wild animals. Seeds grow into plants, which need light and water. Don't eat wild
mushrooms, or build a fire in an enclosed area. Yadda yadda. And water is H2O.

C) Nothing - given your stated constraints. Hence my smiley-face. I was winking at those who'd say something about "well, that's liquid phase -
it's more like 0.917 as solid - you have to say at s.t.p. (or, more accurately, at the triple-point). And - what about deuterium content? And never
mind supercooling, or allotropic forms....

AndyGondorf says: Jan 9, 2010. 3:01 PM REPLY

A : You're welcome :) It's great to see someone apply some real analysis instead of just spouting second hand partially realised facts.

C : I know, and apologise.

I was baiting you a bit about showing off your (absolutely correct, by the way) knowlege. :)
The constraints in fact were outlined by your good self in terms of the sig. figs., phase and isotopic accuracy you supplied for the other
reagents. Naughty of both of us, I apologise. ;)

B : (sorry about the chaotic order, this reply is harder to compose since it's more subjective than A or B!)

An interesting one and, as you say, very subject to opinion.

Being a real "science geek" (also with degree level chemistry) at heart myself I hear and understand everything you're saying about basic
knowledge.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
 However, being in the education biz myself tends to steer me away from giving particular importance to my own skill set and knowledge base.

Indeed, to quote your own words "no adult in the modern world should be considered educated without a grasp of some plurality of some
basic knowledge set." , which I agree with but for the sake of argument we could go with the knowledge set allowing us to create works of art
or music.

Neither of these knowledge sets requires the formula for water, but I don't think we can eliminate some of our great creative individuals from
the voting process just yet!

Having said that, if you have a look at www.senseaboutscience.org.uk you'll see a wonderful teardown of some science "facts" put forward by
some our of leading "celebrities"

I certainly grant that most visitors to this site will also veer towards the science geekdom side of things so perhaps your argument stands in
many cases, but I still think not all. Perhaps I'm just playing devil's advocate!

So there! *puts away his own soapbox for the time being*

Apologies to anyone I've bored with my own rant :)

corradini says: Jan 11, 2010. 11:59 AM REPLY

Oh, we're having fun now! >;-) Good responses, every one.

"also with degree level chemistry" -- whoops! I never said that. In fact, I've had only 2 chem classes, and that's generous - one was junior
high and the other high school, and I didn't excel at either. I'm self-taught over the last 4 years or so, with some help from a PhD friend or
two and a lot of journal articles....

I agree fully about not eating too much of one's own dog food. My educational and work background is management (MBA) and IT, so my
criteria also include basic computer & Internet skills, balancing a checkbook, a rudimentary grasp of economics ("supply and demand", as
Father Guido Sarducci's 5-minute University had it) , and how interest works.

People ought to have some clue about atoms, electricity, magnetism, light/EM radiation, the Big Bang, stars, and the universe. Ditto
nutrition, what a liver's for, vitamins (esp. folic acid), and first aid. Ditto basic literacy, numeracy, and communication skills. Ditto basic
geography, history, political science, philosophy, literature, art, and music.

I'm also a big fan of ideas like: everyone should learn to speak another language, play a musical instrument, (try to) get good at a sport,
travel to foreign countries, hike/camp in the wilderness, go sailing out of sight of land, summit a mountain, be able to cook one good meal,
etc.

OK - I've now fully digressed into a complete rant about how the entire human race should conduct its affairs. So - I'll see your apology,
and raise you. ;-) I realize this is not the forum for my opinions on this -- I'll take it offline henceforth.

AndyGondorf says: Jan 16, 2010. 5:47 AM REPLY

LOL...I'm calling "stalemate" on this one since we've both gone a touch off-topic, but it's been fun for me too. :)

indigoandblack says: Jun 26, 2009. 10:41 AM REPLY

No clue. :-) I haven't tried to do the calculations!

quaggaquagg says: Mar 11, 2009. 3:36 PM REPLY

Amazing! Although it IS obvious that you used a sodium acetate solution. Can't fool us! Ha ha ha!

indigoandblack says: Mar 12, 2009. 9:27 AM REPLY

Er... sorry? I don't quite understand your comment... Of course I used a "sodium acetate solution" - that's what this whole instructable is about: making
sodium acetate.

patcullen says: Jan 9, 2010. 11:05 AM REPLY

quaggaquagg must have fallen asleep for the first 14 steps of this tutorial... thanks for taking the effort to post this - im gonna give it a shot tomorrow.

thepelton says: Jan 9, 2010. 10:26 AM REPLY

I hate to be the one to ask, but for what can you use Sodium Acetate?

Shiggity says: Oct 15, 2009. 2:57 AM REPLY

"This way, we err on the side of excess unreacted acetic acid(which will largely boil off) rather than excess unreacted sodiumbicarbonate (which will not, and
can interfere with crystallization)."

I know you already mentioned in your errata that acetic acid has ahigher boiling point than water, but I think it should also bementioned that you can decant a
solution of sodium acetate fromunreacted baking soda since it is solid, and you ARE in that case"adding acid to X." Therefore it seems easier to add
thebaking soda first and then decant the solution into another container.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/
 samosaur0491 says: Oct 10, 2009. 3:36 PM REPLY
this is how to make Hot Ice right? i wanna make sure cause im doing this for a science fair project at school, please R.S.V.P. right away, the teacher never
annouced when it was due, so i wanna get a head start on it, thank you so much. :-)

minime12358 says: Aug 19, 2009. 7:04 AM REPLY

Your gonna love this: I found on a website explaining how to boil it and it mentions how to not get it brown: Boil the solution to concentrate the sodium
acetate. You could just remove the solution from heat once you have 100-150 ml of solution remaining, but the easiest way to get good results is to simply
boil the solution until a crystal skin or film starts to form on the surface. This took me about an hour on the stove over medium heat. If you use lower heat you
are less likely to get yellow or brown liguid, but it will take longer. If discoloration occurs, it's okay.

indigoandblack says: Oct 5, 2009. 10:48 AM REPLY

Interesting... so you got it to work then? Did you filter it regardless of the amount of color change? The color itself isn't the issue - rather, it's that it's
indicative of organic impurities in the liquid that come from the naturally sourced vinegar. I was never able to get the solution to crystallize properly
without the filtering step.

minime12358 says: Oct 7, 2009. 1:50 PM REPLY

Well.... no i found this after my second attempt. But this was fun... got a few of my friends and we played brawl while it boiled away. In the end, i used
the sodium acetate to try to make hot ice by disolving it into hot water, but i miss estimated and had to much liquid..... Do you think i could just boil
this down without effecting it?

GentleMiant says: Sep 11, 2009. 2:38 PM REPLY

Not going to use the cabbage? Ahhh, you really don't NEED an indicator, do you? But about the washing of the container, after that I always rinse with
distilled water. I NEVER trust tap water to be "pure".

indigoandblack says: Oct 5, 2009. 10:44 AM REPLY

Agreed, though in this case it really shouldn't make a whole lot of difference. I wouldn't use tap water if I had to add water to the solution ever, but tap for
washing ought not change anything.

GentleMiant says: Oct 6, 2009. 3:00 PM REPLY

Ok. But small impurities CAN make a big difference. Even in crystallization. A few decades ago an electronics co. (maybe GE or Motorola) had
difficulty with their supply of quartz for making frequency standards. They came up with an organo-compound crystal that worked just as well... until it
started growing in another "habit". They tried to isolate the process from whatever the "impurity" was causing the problem. Even using a facility in
another state! Nothing worked. Fortunately the problem with the quartz supply got solved.

trollpet says: Sep 2, 2009. 3:27 PM REPLY

i did it. very good! thank you!

indigoandblack says: Oct 5, 2009. 10:44 AM REPLY

Sweet! I'm glad it worked for you!

Kaber says: Jun 3, 2009. 12:14 PM REPLY

For how long do I recharge (double boil) the crystals? and will this cause them to be a white, powdery substance? Thanks

indigoandblack says: Jun 3, 2009. 4:03 PM REPLY

Until they've completely dissociated back into solution. It could take maybe 20 minutes or more. It won't cause them to be "powdery" - they will
redissolve.

minime12358 says: Aug 17, 2009. 5:57 AM REPLY

Just curious, is it necessary to recharge in order to make hot ice with it? And what kind of container could you put in boiling water without exploding
or melting?

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http://www.instructables.com/id/Crystallization-of-homemade-sodium-acetate/