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Graham Doddsville Fall 2022 Issue 46 - 0
Graham Doddsville Fall 2022 Issue 46 - 0
Graham Doddsville Fall 2022 Issue 46 - 0
Doddsville
Todd Combs ’02 with breakfast guests Todd Combs ’02 and Michael Mauboussin
Mario Gabelli ’67 and Marc Mayer ’83 Bill Ackman asks a question
Tano Santos and Matt Keating ‘23 Value Investing Program Students
Page 4
www.grahamanddodd.com
Featuring:
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
learn more about how G&D: economics, and
you shifted from math Can you help translate philosophy, which feels
expert to liberal arts. that for the philosophy as if this is the beginning
newbies? of a true value investor
education. How did that
JR: shape your business
I started at Columbia in JR: school experience and
the economics inform your career path
Sure, though it’s been
department in 2002. post-graduation?
decades! One example I
This was the result of a recall involved a fruit
lack of imagination. bowl. People may state
Economics was a popular JR:
explicit rank preferences
major, I was in New of certain types of fruit The business school path
York City, business was over others, only to was boring: I was
exciting, and I went with violate those preferences following a plan I laid
the flow. In fact, the first in a seemingly out for myself years
time I used my brain for inconsistent manner. But before. If you rewind the
myself was when I rather than concluding tape, my parents grew
pivoted from economics. irrationality, it may be up with little and used
I noticed that the that the description of education to achieve
assumptions underlying choices in the graduate degrees and
the models in lower-level experiment doesn’t provide a better
classes were not capture an additional, opportunity for their
realistic. I recognized relevant factor (such as kids. My parents wanted
that people act etiquette). Assume their kids to keep
emotionally, there’s a bowl of fruit pushing forward and this
inconsistently, are prone with oranges and pears emphasis on progress
to bias or impulse, and and assume I prefer entailed planning.
have blind spots. I was oranges to pears. In a Coming out of college, I
preoccupied with the normal scenario, I’ll take had a five-year plan:
applicability of classroom the orange over the three years of “boot
learning and the pear. But if it's the last camp” banking, then a
predictive power of orange, and it’s your two-year MBA. I was
models. If something fruit bowl, maybe I’ll fortunate to get into
was strictly academic, take a pear to be polite. Stanford and returned to
that only went so far. I A more fulsome Northern California.
wanted to ask questions description of the choice For MBA students with
and poke holes. That led (I prefer oranges to my background, the next
me to the fields of pears, unless it is the step was presumed to be
decision theory, last one, in which case the buyside, but the fact
behavioral economics, I’ll take a pear) is I didn’t have a new
and game theory. preserves rationality and five-year plan yet. I
Curiosity helped me veer enhances predictability. I showed up with an open
into the philosophy also remember an mind, perhaps buoyed
department. Ultimately, example with a cocaine- by the idea that my
I wrote a dissertation on addled neighbor offering acceptance had
violations of rationality. tea, but I’ll stop here. guaranteed a decent
The focus was looking at Suffice it to say, I had worst-case outcome. The
examples of seemingly no idea this background primary effect of my two
rational human beings would result in a fund years on campus was
making irrational name. not tied to any particular
decisions. And the point profession, but instead
of my paper was trying much more general. A
to redefine experiments G&D: great way to describe
to better explain results what I got from business
Maybe to fast-forward a
without resorting to the school is to think about
bit, you’ve now spent
idea that people are that section in Us
some time in finance and
utterly unpredictable. Weekly called “They’re
then you decide to
attend business school. (Continued on page 7)
You’re combining math,
Page 7
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
Just Like Us!” If you’ve this was an ‘aha’ second moment
ever been in the grocery moment. If I went for it, happened a year later.
store and seen celebrity worked hard, had my After Stanford, I was at
magazines, there is a eyes open, and caught a Goldman, the fog was
section with photos of couple breaks, I could lifting, and I could tell
Ben Affleck grabbing become that person. banking was not right for
Dunkin Donuts or Brad me. I needed advice and
Pitt taking out the trash. two friends offered an
The message to the non- G&D: idea and perspective,
famous public is “Look, In past interviews, respectively. The first
they’re just like us!” you’ve mentioned that guy, Tyler, had done a
Stanford gave us a you began life as a risk- Gates Fellowship to
parade of portfolio averse person, which is Cambridge. He and I are
managers and Fortune a part of your brain close; he lost his dad
500 CEOs. Burbank you’ve had to rewire. young, we both raced
talked about How did you go about bikes, yadda yadda. He
commodities, Chanos this transformation, and said, “go to Cambridge
spoke about short do you think this and mix it up. Maybe
selling, and Mary Barra rewiring process is join the rowing team.”
discussed the future of replicable? The second guy, a much
automobiles. Part of the older mentor figure, was
an early partner at
“But you see that in JR: Montgomery Securities.
place of magic, it’s a Yeah, that’s true. For He broke it down like
me, it was a conscious this: “Say you have a 40
cocktail of hard work, choice. It wasn’t -year career. Consider
happenstance and, to two scenarios. Scenario
a bit of luck, and long one, you spend 40 years
answer the last question
years dedicated to a first, I do think it can be cranking and retire.
replicated. Scenario two, you spend
craft. Stir it in a pot 39 years at work, but
There were three big somewhere in there you
and voila, they’re moments. First, my dad spend a year on an
got sick and passed adventure. Which life
speaking as a CEO.” away during business sounds more
school. There’s interesting?” My decision
allure of a Columbia or something about being was made and I sent in
Stanford MBA is that confronted with my acceptance to
these institutions pull in mortality that is eye Cambridge that day.
such successful leaders. opening. You realize
you're on this planet for After Cambridge, I came
After class, you have back and didn't have a
lunch with them, they’re a while, run around, do
some things, then you job. I found my way to
hanging out, they’re Lonestar Capital, where I
feeling nostalgic and die and the world moves
on. A life takeaway is worked for Jerome
telling you stories from Simon. It was my dream
when they were that the most important
thing is who's around gig. But after a year in
students, and you the seat, and despite
realize, “Oh my God, you at the end. But
beyond that, his passing doing solid bottom-up
there's no magic here.” I research, Jerome said to
mean, don’t get me made me want to swing
the bat harder because me, “You know Jacob,
wrong, these are maybe you're really
impressive people. In “why the hell not?” At
the end of the day, who supposed to be a
place of magic, it’s a consultant. Or in
cocktail of hard work, a is going to care if you
fall on your face? If you research.” I’m not
bit of luck, and long trying to throw shade,
years dedicated to a put in honest work, what
do you have to lose? but for me, personally, I
craft. Stir it in a pot and took it as an insult, and
voila, they're speaking That realization hit me
like a ton of bricks and I I'm pretty sure it was
as a CEO at Stanford
Business School. For me, made a few concrete (Continued on page 8)
goals on the spot. The
Page 8
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
meant as an insult! His attribute names to you, legit batting average (or
point was that I was so you have to slugging percentage) to
task oriented performing communicate effectively survive, but to get there
analysis that I wasn't and figure out how to I first needed conviction,
wired for the goal, which get the decision maker that's what I figured out
is to compound the pile. onboard. For me, I'd go to keep my job.
I was going to lose my into Jerome’s office and One final note on
job if I didn't figure this would have ten seconds Lonestar. Before this
out, so with my head on of his attention. I would stop, when I was a
the chopping block I had need to turn those ten banker, if the MD
to figure out what to do seconds into two messaged on Friday
to stay. This was the minutes and then get night, I’d be annoyed.
final straw; out of him out of his chair to Like, “where is your
desperation, I had to the white board for work-life balance?” But
take calculated risk and thirty. Then you got to with Jerome, he’d
find the ability to pound know it cold – no notes, message all day,
the table. no equivocations – and anytime, every day of
At this point I figured turn that white boarding the week. But it never
out a useful formula for into a starter position bothered me! Jerome is
success as a hedge fund and the PM’s obsessed, addicted,
analyst. It’s a three- commitment to read a totally wired for
legged stool. Leg one is full memo. A benefit of investing – and it turns
goal orientation and this flow is that you out I am too. If I’m at
recognizing that learn what matters and the airport and it’s full, I
investing is a how to get to the good ping our team about
commercial endeavor. stuff fast. Dufry (“DUFN SW”)
Though it’s fun, money Leg three is simply your between changing my
management is neither a track record. Either kids’ diapers. If that
hobby nor an intellectual you're making money or bothers you, if you’re
exercise. We aren’t you’re not. You can see not obsessed, this job is
teaching. We are doing the inherent bias to do not for you.
this to grow a pile of something in those first G&D:
capital. This entails couple legs. But for me
finding things to invest at Lonestar, if there This sounds a lot like the
in. For an analyst, this were too many losers, ‘What Matters’
means getting efficient I'd be gone. I needed a framework that Kian
with your time and Ghazi teaches at
quickly determining the “I figured out a Columbia Business
probability of School, which is an
actionability up front. formula for success efficient way to boil
Then, you have to repeat down the thesis into
as a hedge fund what actually moves the
the process again and
again and never slow analyst. It’s a three- securities. The goal is
down. There’s a phrase, not to write a book
“keep pedaling the bike.” legged stool. Leg one report, it’s to figure out
You get kicked in the what the variant view is
is goal orientation and figure out what we
face? Keep pedaling. You
have a homerun and feel and recognizing that need to know to make it
like doing a victory lap? a long or a short. It
Keep pedaling. investing is a would be helpful to hear
how you’ve taken
Leg two is that you need commercial getting pushed as an
to learn to speak the analyst working with
PM’s language. The PM is endeavor...Leg two is
Jerome to becoming a
like Congress and you that you need to learn PM and implementing
need to pass some that process within
legislation. If you want to speak the PM’s Philosophy.
names in the book, if
you want your PM to go
language...Leg three JR:
down the sheets and is your track record.” (Continued on page 9)
Page 9
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
First, any discussion isn’t any uncertainty, it’s toward fixing the
about ‘what matters’ probably not a major disconnect, if you can
should start with the mispricing. If there is no forecast a changed
question, “is this potential narrative, you have
actionable?” It’s misunderstanding, it's something.
annoying when people probably not in our Finally, we’ve got to be
on FinTwit or Substack wheelhouse at able to make objective
pitch incredible Philosophy. There are and measurable
opportunities that don’t great, fairly priced predictions that we can
trade. If there is no businesses that could track over time. This is
borrow, has a crazy rate, deliver an adequate important because if we
is super illiquid, or has a compounded IRR over violate the predictions, I
sky-high short interest, time with steady know to sell. That’s our
don’t bother researching execution. But that is framework for individual
the short. Waste of time. not what we do. ideas. There is another
That’s a big difference Third, if it's actionable dimension when it
between trading a and we think there’s a comes to portfolio
personal account and mispricing, we now ask, construction, how the
running an investment “why is this mispriced?” pieces fit together, factor
business. and “will this mispricing exposures, etc. But
Second, we start with persist indefinitely, or that’s a different puzzle.
wondering, “does this can it be corrected?” G&D:
opportunity represent a That is the crux of our
serious mispricing?” To work. We are good at You've touched on this in
answer that, we look for finding things that look past interviews, but you
a few things. We might cheap with explosive mentioned Philosophy
think about abnormal upside. But the area likes to invest in broken
upside (75% or higher) where we sharpen our markets. It would be
with reasonable pencils is differentiating great to hear about
assumptions. You might between CFAR (cheap which markets you’re
react skeptically, saying focused on, and maybe a
“if those only grew on “We are good at few examples.
trees, right?” But they finding things that JR:
do exist. You don’t find
We like investments to
them often and it's not look cheap with
fit into a fact pattern
without risk, but you can
explosive upside. But with which we are
find things that look like
familiar. Examples
they could double if the area where we include ‘survival bets,’
things break right. We
sharpen our pencils is ‘free call options’,
also think about
‘broken tech M&A’. Not
asymmetric skew. Think
differentiating to mention the
about, say, the ‘net net’
omnipresent leveraged
concept by Benjamin between CFAR (cheap packaging company.
Graham, where
for a reason) and Beyond familiarity, we
something looks like it's
typically aim for
covered by current
assets less liabilities. TCTI (too cheap to significant or inflecting
free cash flow. If cash
Theoretically you make ignore).” flow is missing, it is
money in liquidation, so
likely a distressed
it feels like covered for a reason) and TCTI
situation where we're
downside. Of course, (too cheap to ignore). Is
thinking about
you find this with it a value trap? Maybe it
underwriting through
elevated uncertainty, so is cheap merely because
bankruptcy and thinking
on a related note, we it is a dicey, commodity-
through asset values. A
hunt situations with driven cyclical – a low
final component is
ambiguity. No sell-side multiple is justified. If
catalysts; mis-pricings
coverage, obscured you can actually
don’t tend to correct out
assets, complex determine why it’s
of thin air. Usually
financials, litigation, or misunderstood and that
political risks. If there there's a credible path (Continued on page 10)
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Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
there's an event path for distressed guys, these claimed this cycle would
an about-face. As you situations trade with 10- die down and the
might imagine, efficient or 20-point gaps in company would gush
markets have lots of pricing, not point-by- free cash flow and de-
eyeballs, smart people point. Oh, and tax loss lever by half a turn a
with strong incentives, selling; it’s October as year. Atlas was
combing over the we're talking, we're benefiting from secular
opportunity set. The entering prime tax-loss tailwinds like e-
good news, though, is selling season. For tax- commerce and just-in-
that markets break down paying investors, you time delivery. It had
all the time. Elections in can have big losers that ACMI business (aircraft,
Italy and Colombia are get to a point where you crew, maintenance,
scaring the market, we'll can make 100% return insurance) with
see what happens here on a realized tax loss. guaranteed minimums,
in the US with midterms Even if you think the lending stability to the
and then 2024. ESG is stock’s a double, the downside. A clear thesis
massive and not exactly benefit of the tax loss is overall: capex cliff, de-
perfect fundamentally. certain. That quirk is tied lever 0.5x per year,
The spirit might be good, to the tax code. stability to the downside,
but folks are taking and a cheap multiple.
advantage of it, puffing Fast forward to August
up bad companies and G&D: 1st, 2019 and AAWW,
harming some good You mention in other the largest position in
interviews how my sleeve, which was a
“We like investments important it is for trial balloon to see if
investors early in their Jerome would back me.
to fit into a fact Atlas whiffed hard, with
career to “be wrong” and
pattern with which to “feel wrong.” I’d be EBITDA -31% year-on-
curious to hear how year and below
we are familiar. you’ve translated that consensus by -17%. The
Examples includes into your success in your stock fell 25% and kept
career. Could you walk falling. Management
‘survival bets,’ ‘free through an experience blamed tensions in trans
that you had early on in -pacific relations, but
call options’, ‘broken your career, with an this kind of result wasn’t
tech M&A’. Beyond investment that made it supposed to happen with
through all your criteria, ACMI contractual
familiarity, we but didn't work out, and minimums. Moreover,
what you learned from they didn’t de-lever at all
typically aim for that? and when I asked them
significant or about it, they said the
company did pay down
inflecting free cash JR: debt. I was confused
I can give a couple because the metrics
flow.” didn’t change, but they
examples, both mistakes
and then successes. said, “well, we drew the
ones. I’d also argue revolver to pay down the
small caps are becoming Back at Lonestar I bonds.” I had to sell
broken because they're invested in a couple air because that was
not investable for the freight businesses, Air disingenuous and my
increasingly large Transport Service Group understanding of the
institutions that drive (“ATSG”) and later Atlas business was proven
flows. In credit markets, Air (“AAWW”). It was a wrong. A small lesson I
there are all sorts of classic levered value learned is that
technical issues. investment. This was guaranteed minimums
Whether it's CLOs who 2017/2018 and the are not a panacea.
can’t hold stressed thesis was that AAWW’s Oftentimes, guarantees
paper, or real money bad FCF was the result are priced well below
PM's needing to offload of elevated capex tied to normal run rate, so spot
stressed paper to the build-out of (Continued on page 11)
Amazon's fleet. Atlas
Page 11
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
dries up completely and deal, the converts were not protect us. We were
the contractual bit falls good. Avaya closed the below $2 billion of
to the minimum and deal, the converts secured debt. While the
earnings get smoked. jumped to 95, and we events that occurred
Sadly for me, the AAWW felt smart for about five were somewhat hard to
mistake doesn’t end seconds. Unexpectedly, predict, this was not bad
there. It gets worse! a couple weeks later, the luck but, rather, a series
During COVID, CEO was fired, the word of mistakes.
passenger flights were “removed” was in the G&D:
decimated, which killed press release, and
numbers were slashed That's a helpful
nearly half the air freight overview. The Avaya
capacity that flies in the and abandoned. I felt
physically ill and trade reminds me of an
underbelly. Ships were experience I had where
backed up at every port immediately realized we
were screwed. I've learned to not buy
and supplies were 2nd liens because of a
needed everywhere. Thankfully, it was sized
small and we took our similar dynamic. I’d be
Atlas was in the perfect remiss if I didn't give
place at the perfect time medicine fast. But it was
you an opportunity to
– and I completely “This ties in another talk about a successful
missed it. I didn't revisit investment.
it, I didn't get any Jerome-ism: “never
dollars behind the trade,
and the stock went from take your eye off a JR:
$20 to $100. This ties in ticker.” Once you've For symmetry I'll give
another Jerome-ism:
you two. We had a good
“never take your eye off learned it and you've investment in
a ticker.” Once you've
put in that time, you Bombardier (“BBD/B
learned it and you've put
CN”), which went from
in that time, you can’t can’t forget about it. 27 cents CAD to about
forget about it. The
The world is $2. In 2020, the stock
world is dynamic.
got killed on Covid and
One more mistake. dynamic.” kept falling without
Avaya (“AVYA”) is a respite during tax loss
communications painful! selling season. It was
company that ran into just getting slammed
big trouble. After the In hindsight, I made
every day. But we
stock plummeted, we three mistakes here.
realized that Bombardier
identified a trade tied to First, this was
had a catalyst on the
an impending convert asymmetric the wrong
immediate horizon.
maturity. There was a way; we could make 12
Namely, the company
small issuance due in points or lose 88, which
was selling its trains
2023, but after that it is awful unless the odds
business to Alstom. With
had four years until a are nearly certain and
the sale, Bombardier
mountain of secured I’m not someone who
would shed a complex
debt in 2027-2028. The underwrites to certainty.
minority interest, a
company was in the Second, we made money
bunch of debt, and
market raising $500 on our core prediction –
pension obligations.
million to take out this job done – and yet we
Plus, there would be a
$300 million convert. decided to hang on for
sizable cash infusion and
The books were covered five more points. The
the creation of a pure-
and even got upsized. math was even more
play private aviation
The explicit use of asymmetric the wrong
business. This catalyst
proceeds in the way and we should have
would change the
marketing of the deal called it a day. Finally, I
narrative and buy four
was to take out the had not adequately
years for optionality. We
convert. We bought scored the downside
ran a Black-Scholes
converts at 88 cents case. If things fell apart,
model where we looked
thinking that when they our convert was
at in-the-money call
closed the new money unsecured and the fact it
was first in time would (Continued on page 12)
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Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
value for six months feeling giddy. It had Team’, and ‘C Team’
versus four years and chartered business, performing players. New
sixth months. Four years asset value covered by investors who can be
of runway was worth scrap, and management great at business and
almost the entire stock that seemed better than fundamental analysis
price. (And yes, I used others in the space (low might be missing this
the “runway” joke many part of their skillset,
times in LP meetings. “I had this mantra which is an ability to
Sue me.) We bought the that the number of evaluate the
stock as a survivor bet, performance of
but also picked off front folks who have done management teams.
end debt in the 70s. And well in shipping is What’s your criteria in
then the fun part was as weighing that?
we moved past the “not many” and, well,
trains sale, we realized this was art versus
Bombardier was a JR:
secular winner in a world science, and “art” told The first ingredient is
where commercial travel me to get out.” access to management.
felt unsafe. Sure At Philosophy I am
enough, they boosted bar). We had a small trying to instill a culture
orders and people got position before COVID- of not being shy. My
excited about the 19 and thankfully, unlike guess would be that if
optionality. Atlas, we put the pieces you talked to the
Another fun one was together fast. We made management teams
shipping broadly. I the position bigger post we've invested behind,
remembered that in my Covid and the stock shot they would probably
banking days from 2006 from $3.60/share to laugh and make a joke
– 2008, shipping was over $100. We didn't about how persistent
fantastic and every bank hold it all the way, but (annoying?) we are. We
had its own shipping suffice it to say we did have lots of calls, lots of
teams. But good times well. Interestingly, in meetings, we share our
led to oversupply and January 2021, an Israeli work to let them know
decade-plus period of shipping company called what we're thinking, and
nasty supply/demand. Zim (“ZIM”) IPO’ed. we offer “suggestivism.”
Everyone invested lost Danaos had a large We're not afraid to go
their shirt. I read a fun stake in Zim, which into boards or executive
book about a hedge fund caused us to take a look. teams and we try to do
PM risking everything on When the IPO broke so intelligently. For
shipping, The Shipping price, we built a position example, junior analysts
Man. But in 2019, I which also had a need to learn that if you
realized that there was meteoric rise. Colored by write cookie-cutter
nobody to talk to about the horrors of the past, messages like, “hi, I'm
shipping. It was dead. both fictional and real, from so and so, a fund
No more banking we erred on the side of that manages X dollars,
coverage, nothing. caution and sold our this is our mandate, can
These ships have 20 positions at the end of we please have a phone
year lives but tend to 2021. I had this mantra call?” then management
float even longer. Excess that the number of folks will ignore you. They are
supply loitered on the who have done well in human beings and that's
water, just wouldn't shipping is “not many” what human beings do
clear out, and every and, well, this was art to boring emails.
investor in the space versus science, and “art” Instead, make it more
sounded suicidal. But we told me to get out. casual, to the point, and
discovered one of the G&D: ideally have something
cheapest stocks that is in it for them.
You’ve discussed Then, boom, a meeting.
anywhere, well before investing in businesses
COVID-19, called Also, this is way better
with different ‘grades’ of than using an expert
Danaos (“DAC”). It was management, splitting
0.7x PE. I remember network. I went away
between ‘A Team’, ‘B
seeing that multiple and (Continued on page 13)
Page 13
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
from those services You’ve mentioned these are bad businesses
because the serendipity Philosophy looks at the and once you learn that,
in the process of getting hairy stuff that’s out of it goes in your toolbox.
to people is so valuable. favor potentially for a Going forward, the bar
You just don't know reason. How do you go
where it's going to go, about determining which “Part of this process
but all those calls usually investments should fall
produce something into the too-hard pile,
is accumulating
unexpected, and if you versus digging in and battle scars...As far as
just lazily have someone really trying to do some
scheduling expert calls creative work? One deciding if something
for you, you miss out on example is an is uninvestable
that element. Engineering &
Construction (“E&C”) broadly, we always
Once you have access,
it's just reps, at-bats, business like a ask the question, can
and years in the seat to McDermott. This was not
a good business model, this be corrected? Can
help you distinguish
between good and bad. and it was going through what everyone is
At first, all a tough time of overruns
and delays. It wasn’t seeing today be
managements will sound
compelling but over time bankrupt yet, had flipped around...We
you appreciate the runway and liquidity,
and the debt looked get it right some of
difference. In addition to
how they sound and covered on asset value the times, wrong
what their background and was yielding a juicy
coupon. It became clear other times, but when
is, you can look at
incentives. You want the business was going we get it wrong, we
alignment from an bankrupt. I did a ton of
work to underwrite ask ourselves why
ownership perspective.
You can do checks on owning it into and fill up our
them and ask around to bankruptcy, but it
proved to be a gigantic ‘Lessons Learned Scar
find out if they are well-
regarded. Listen to see if waste of time. I’m Tissue’ bucket.”
they sound capable, curious how you all think
they're articulate, they through that process and to convince me of an
don't repeat themselves, what makes you decide E&C long is going to be
they don't resort to it’s not worth the brain awfully high. Another
generic language but damage? consequence of this
instead get right into learning would be that if
specifics. A mistake I've something looks like an
JR: E&C business, and is
made is overlooking
problems with Part of this process is cheap as a result, but in
management. If there's accumulating battle reality is not such a
a governance problem scars. You say business, then that is a
and management is not McDermott and I recall reason for cheapness
trustworthy, if you get Chicago Bridge & Iron, that could pique my
checks saying they're Babcock & Wilcox, and a interest.
crooks, get out. Crooks few other E&Cs. At some As far as deciding if
gonna crook. They know point, trying a cheap something is uninvest-
how to do it and if E&C feels like a right of able broadly, we always
they're an executive at a passage. You get killed ask the question, can
publicly traded company, on spiraling cost this be corrected? Can
they are probably good overruns; you see what everyone is seeing
at it. You need to management teams today be flipped around?
respect that reality and confidently stand behind What you described with
get away from it. It's too increased cost estimates McDermott was clearly
unpredictable. – “the last time, we cheap for a reason –
promise” – and then nothing about it was a
they blow past them the
G&D: next quarter. You learn (Continued on page 14)
Page 14
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
mispricing. It's cheap for density and the full is triple-exposed to
clear reasons. We get it impact of supply chain rising rates: 1) the
right some of the times, ecosystems. Everyone factoring business
wrong other times, but points to solar, wind, benefits from spreads
when we get it wrong, and batteries, but they blowing out due to
we ask ourselves why neglect the rare earth increased time value of
and fill up our ‘Lessons mineral mining or how money, not to mention
Learned Scar Tissue’ you tackle the waste or the benefits of factoring
bucket. old panels or turbines. in a more uncertain
G&D: Anyway, the place that world; 2) BFF has a 6
feels interesting and billion EUR loan book
Coming off the tech early, to me, is nuclear. tied to Italian sovereigns
bubble boom and bust But we also look at LNG where 5-yr spreads are
between 2000 - 2001, as well as the fat tail of blowing out and they
many investors swore off classic oil and gas. have near-term and
investing in technology. Traditional oil and gas floating exposure that is
That myopic view was companies are so going gangbusters; and,
obviously proven wrong. unloved, they trade at 1- 3) BFF charges late
Do you think there are 2x cash flow. payment interest at a
similar sectors where the statutory floating L+800
market is meaningfully Another area of change
is that we just had a rate. So, BFF is triple-
mispricing risk today? exposed to rising rates
decade-plus of falling
interest rates or interest and as long as the entire
rates pegged to the country of Italy can fund
JR:
floor, not to mention hospital bills and the
I can think of a couple. like, it will be a major
negative in Europe. Now,
When you're doing a top beneficiary of this
rates are rising and
-down analysis, you’re environment. That’s just
regardless of when the
looking for a paradigm one example of
Fed pivots, or to what
change, for multi-year Philosophy looking
extent they turn dovish,
trends that reverse. You around an area of
the fact remains that
try and think “what are change and not knowing
rates are off the floor.
the implications?” One what we’ll stumble on.
What’s more,
area of change today is
Quantitative Easing is
energy transition. We
turning hard into G&D:
think about the
Quantitative Tightening.
proliferation of ESG In the Winter 2009
It's not just coasting in
funds and what that Graham & Doddsville
neutral; it's actually
means for longs and edition following the
reversing 180 degrees.
shorts. We think about Great Financial Crisis,
When you jam the
the dynamic problems Bruce Berkowitz stated
brakes and throw it in
that are being tackled he believed investors
reverse and interest
from governments and were “focused on most
rates rise, what
businesses globally. of the ways in which you
happens? We are asking
Power demand is only can die, which is a great
ourselves these
growing, with both signal for the future.
questions all the time
demographic trends as What is happening
and we've uncovered a
well as the need to today, as in most bear
few interesting
digitize developing markets, is that people
investment
economies. Meanwhile, either don’t have the
opportunities.
classic fuel types are cash or they don’t have
killing our planet. So a For example, there’s a the stomach – hence the
wave of fund flows flood factoring business in low valuations.” The
the market trying to find Italy, BFF Bank (“BFF draconian risk during the
clean energy solutions. IM”), where the Italian GFC was the potential
But you need to think political backdrop and for total collapse of the
about complex scientific what's happening in capital markets, but the
problems, like European equities has fear in markets today
distribution, punished stocks and appears to be a scenario
transmission, energy hidden a few gems. BFF (Continued on page 15)
Page 15
Gavin
Jacob Baker,
Rubin, Atreides Management
Philosophy Capital
where high inflation and mess, we have social copious cash flow.
slow growth create a efforts distorting This sounds self-serving,
decade of stagflation. markets, we are coming but if you add up the
Layer in a growing lack off free money fueling two facts I mentioned –
of confidence in central idiotic bubbles, we have the existence of cheap
banks and sovereign a brutal combination of securities tied to
debt issuers, and it’s a high inflation with strong businesses that make
nasty cocktail. At the employment, which cash and want to give it
same time, sentiment gives the Fed cover to back, against a tough
across retail, business jack up rates. We have macro-environment with
leaders, and investors is the reversal of lots of risks looming – I
quite poor. Do you see globalization, which is think you need a long/
any corollaries between inflationary. It’s a tough short strategy. Further,
the post-GFC era and backdrop when you add you want a low net, you
today? Are we closer to it up. This is consensus, want some cash on the
the ‘Roaring 20s,’ the but that doesn’t mean sidelines, and if you
1970s, or the Great want to make it really
Depression? “One of the most
interesting, you want the
JR: important risk ability to go after
One of the most management distressed credit if we're
important risk heading into a cycle.
priorities right now is
management priorities G&D:
right now is understanding your I couldn't agree more. I
understanding your think that's probably a
factor exposures. And
factor exposures. And great place to leave it.
not just Fama French not just Fama French Jacob. Thank you so
stuff. If Putin is taken much for your time.
stuff. If Putin is taken
out tomorrow, how is
your book going to out tomorrow, how is
perform? If escalation JR:
your book going to
happens with China and
perform? If escalation You’re welcome, thanks
Taiwan, how are you
for having me.
positioned? Corporate
happens with China
leverage? Wage
inflation? You need to and Taiwan, how are
think about if you are
you positioned?
balanced or imbalanced
on all these dimensions. Corporate leverage?
If you are imbalanced,
Wage inflation? You
you have to know
whether that’s need to think about if
something you want by
you are balanced or
design because you
believe in it. If not, how imbalanced on all
can you achieve better
balance? Philosophy has these dimensions.”
a lot of tools we use to it’s wrong. Two, there
think about hedging and are businesses
we tend to find creative generating cash that will
ways to offset all sorts of prove resilient. I think
risks. Peace might ding the idea of capital
our energy book, but allocation is front-and-
travel stocks probably center, more than it has
rip. Etc. etc. been in the past. You
As far as facts on the can find management
ground, two things are teams that appreciate
true simultaneously. the importance of capital
One, it's a bad macro allocation that have
setup. Geopolitics is a cheap multiples and
Page 16
Investment Thesis:
1. Underappreciated growth levers and market-leading positions
Expect ~10% pt. upside to Street’s FY22-25 revenue CAGR estimates
• Supplies nearly every OEM across all regions, standing
to win irrespective of which player gains share
• Retains 50% share in China, which will remain the larg-
est + fastest growing EV market this decade
• Well-positioned to grow ex-China share, the next
lever of growth, with plants in Europe, Asia, Mexico
• Pack innovation leadership (CTP) allows multiple
chemistry use-cases, growing both NMC and LFP
• ESS represents a call option, with sodium-ion a potential accelerator; low street expectations
Sources: Company Reports, Bloomberg, CapitalIQ, EV-volumes, GGII, Broker Research, Expert Network Transcripts. Pricing as of 13-Oct-22.
Page 17
Valuation: 67% upside to FY25 consensus EPS; cheap P/E given growth
• Expect volumes, gross margins, and operating margins to be above consensus estimates for
FY24-25
• CATL offers the best value for growth among battery comps (see table below)
• Assuming a conservative 25x P/E multiple on base case FY25 EPS; multiple should arguably be
higher given 40% EPS growth CAGR expected over FY22-25
• Stock has historically traded in a wide band of 30-100x NTM P/E;
current multiple (22x FY23) is near all-time lows since IPO
• Reasonable downside protection in the event of weaker-than-
expected volumes and margins, with the current share price imply-
ing persistently low multiples and much lower EPS growth
Sources: Company Reports, Bloomberg, CapitalIQ, EV-volumes, GGII, Broker Research, Expert Network Transcripts. Pricing as of 13-Oct-22.
Page 18
Company Overview
Planet Fitness is the largest gym franchisor in the world, with 2,324+ units, Current Price ($BN)
where 90% are franchises and 10% are corporate owned gyms.
• Founded by the Grondahl brothers in 1992 in Dover, New Hampshire
Alan Leite, CFA ‘24
ALeite24@gsb.columbia.edu • Chris Rondeau started working at the front desk of the first ever Planet
Alan is a first-year MBA student at CBS. Prior
Fitness and became CEO in 2013.
to business school, he worked as a Proprie- • Planet Fitness present in all 50 states in the U.S., and started to expand
tary M&A/VC senior associate at Nubank in to Canada (~50 units), Mexico (~16 units), Australia (~8 units), Panama
Brazil. Before that, Alan was as a private
equity associate at Carlyle. Alan graduated in (~6 units), and Puerto Rico (13 units).
engineering at the University of Sao Paulo. • Planet Fitness has a market share of 9% in the U.S. in terms of net revenue, and international sales account for 3% of
Planet Fitness’ net revenue.
Investment Thesis
Planet Fitness is well-positioned to drive significant growth beyond current market expectations, and it is trading at an at-
tractive valuation
I. Favorable Industry Tailwinds:
Thomas Schlabach ‘24 • U.S. gym market is large ($37 billion) and is growing at 4% per year.
TSchlabach24@gsb.columbia.edu
• The COVID-19 pandemic resulted in the closure of about 10k gyms (~25% of total number of gyms in the U.S.),
Tommy is a first-year MBA student at CBS
and AVP of CSIMA Conference. He served
and during this time PLNT did not have any store closures.
for 12 years as a US Navy veteran. He is now • International markets are an opportunity of more than $9 billion, with similar trends to those of the U.S.
a large cap strategy intern at Diamond Hill
Capital Management. • Strong performance during the 2007/2008 GFC shows Planet Fitness as a recession proof business.
Number of Gyms in the U.S. (thousands) Change in Number of Gyms by State (2019 - 2022)
Valuation — What You Need to Believe to Reach Our Target Price in 2025
• Stores: 3.0k in 2025 (vs. 2.4k in 2022) / 4.6k in 2032 — A larger opportunity due to COVID
outcome (-10k gyms)
• ARPU: $69 in 2025 (vs. 55 in 2022) — Mainly due to higher equipment sales
• Net Margin: 19% in 2025 (vs. 15% in 2022) — Back to historical levels (pre-COVID)
• 2025 Exit P/E NTM Multiple: 25x (vs. 30x entry and 23x of the street) — Higher growth until
2032 (vs. the street) and supported by trading comps
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
Columbia Business about Greenblatt is his but it was probably even
School notes, frankly, ability to take very more stressful than I
which is one of the complicated situations thought, to be honest.
things I always and simplify them into Managing the fund, as a
recommend to their most essential one-person team,
investors. elements. I think he's alongside all of the
Same for Buffet, Lynch, excellent in that regard operational aspects that
et cetera. I think you and it explains a lot of go into a fund while
just really need to read his success. trying to raise capital, is
and reread the greatest all consuming.
investors of all time and Unfortunately, getting
G&D: off to a good start is
ultimately find a way to
incorporate some of their Shifting gears, walk us even more important
principles into your own through the period than it should be, in my
process, which is shortly before you left opinion, in terms of
important because there your previous fund to determining your long-
are many styles of launch Alta Fox. What term success in this
investing. There's no one gave you the confidence industry. In terms of
size fits all, and it's to go out on your own things I did well, I spent
important that you and what was the several months studying
develop your own opportunity that you saw the operational aspects
framework from first in the market that you of hedge funds before
principles so that you wanted to capitalize on? launching Alta Fox. I
know and have knew what I wanted to
confidence in your own do and was well-
CH: prepared on the
style in times of market
turbulence because the I've always been research side, but from
market will inevitably entrepreneurial by an operational
test you. And if you're nature. It was always perspective, I'd never
uncertain about how you my dream to move back worked on that side of a
want to invest, you're to Texas and launch a hedge fund. But when
likely to make costly fund with a flexible you launch a firm and
mistakes. mandate and long-term you're doing it as a one-
capital. I had been fairly man team, you must
successful investing my study that. I spent
“I think you just really personal account for several months prior to
many years, and I had a launch really studying
need to read and reread that aspect seriously.
strong desire to
the greatest investors of implement my investing That knowledge helped
philosophy at an me make informed
all time and ultimately institutional scale. decisions that I think put
Alta Fox in a better
find a way to position today than if I
incorporate some of G&D: had solely relied on
You launched Alta Fox in external advisors like I
their principles into see many people do. You
2018. What are some of
your own process.” the takeaways from that really have to own every
period? Anything that aspect of the process if
surprised you, things you're going to launch
you would do differently, your own fund. I see a
G&D: lot of aspiring fund
things you'd do the
Anything in particular same? managers gloss over this
that stood out about Joel detail. It may not be fun
Greenblatt? or sexy, but it can be the
CH: difference between
success or failure
CH: I knew launching the because if you overlook
fund would be an some of the operational
A lot of things, but if I enormous amount of
had to say one, what I aspects, you can have
work and very stressful.
think is exceptional This was not lost on me,
(Continued on page 22)
Page 22
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
costly, unforced errors. G&D: CH:
I've been very blessed What are some of the When you launch a fund,
with supportive and long ways that you found there are a thousand
-term focused LPs and helpful to de-stress? different decisions you
people who believed in have to make. Many of
me early, and I'm very them are operational
thankful and certainly CH: and if you've never
will never forget that. worked on that side of a
There are a lot of things.
In terms of mistakes, I I mean the biggest thing hedge fund (which
think I would've is just having a team, basically describes
benefited from being able to talk everyone who's trying to
developing ways to de- through things, having launch a fund) you will
stress and remove people who are aware of have no expertise in that
myself from the day-to- what you're dealing with area. Many times, you
day strains of the job. that share the highs and won't even understand
Today, I have a the lows. I think that's the question that the
tremendous team that I really important, and lawyer is asking you.
can bounce ideas off of we've got a great team The lawyer may not
and share the day-to- culture at Alta Fox and even be asking you the
day grind of managing a tremendous individuals question because they
fund. But when you are that comprise the team. have a default and
a one-man investment But when you're they're just kind of
team, it can be very managing it by yourself, answering it implicitly for
lonely. And I think that's you've got so much in you. I think it's
something that if I had your head and you're important if you're going
fully understood, just the dealing with all these to launch your own fund
level of stress, especially other things, even to own all aspects of the
early on, I would've outside the portfolio, it fund and that includes
wanted to develop, in can be really daunting. operations. You should
advance, ways of And I think I manage not take for granted the
managing that. that reasonably well. But default answers that
if someone were 99% of investors will go
“You really have to own with. You really need to
launching a fund by
every aspect of the themselves, I would ask those questions
encourage them to have starting from a first
process if you're going contacts that they're principles basis.
to launch your own checking in with on at I spoke to a lot of other
least a monthly basis people who had
fund. I see a lot of and chatting through launched funds. I tried
their own highs and to learn from both their
aspiring fund lows. You can share successes and their
managers gloss over some of that journey mistakes. And while this
with someone else. was a very fruitful
this detail. It may not process, I also did a lot
be fun or sexy, but it of research myself. I
G&D:
read about fund
can be the difference You mentioned studying operations, I built
the operational aspects decision trees around
between success or when starting your own whether to structure the
failure because if you fund, and we wanted to fund this way or that
double click into that. way. What are the pros
overlook some of the Could you talk a little bit and cons? I forced
more about what you myself to ask these
operational aspects, were studying and what questions, which then
you can have costly, your learnings were on led to more questions,
the operational side of which led to greater
unforced errors.” things. Any advice discovery of the process.
there? I had an end goal in
(Continued on page 23)
Page 23
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
mind for what I wanted strong view of the risk a very systematic
Alta Fox to look like. I and reward. That is not process for analyzing the
think understanding always the sexiest pitch risk / reward. It would
those operational in a world where many not be unusual for us to
aspects from the allocators want drop everything and take
beginning allowed me to increasing levels of as long as it takes to get
make the right choices specialization, but it has clarity on the risk and
on vendors, for example. benefited returns. I think reward. So, we can go
Depending on where you our LPs understand that very wide and very
want your fund to be five I've got the vast deep. Across our four-
and ten years from majority, 90% plus of person investment team,
launch, you're going to my net worth, in the we look at about 25
make different choices fund. I eat my own companies a week. It's a
about which vendors you cooking, and we are KPI we track religiously.
choose on day one. That going to go where we I am very much a
can be a big mistake I think the best risk believer of the Peter
see people make. adjusted returns are, Lynch view, that the
There are difficult trade- even if it doesn't fit a person who turns over
offs. If you launch with a pigeonholed marketing the most rocks is likely
relatively small amount narrative. to win the game. We
of money and you have Searching for good turn over a lot of rocks
to balance the budget businesses with at Alta Fox and once we
plus the long-term competitive advantages find one that fits what
growth, these are and long growth we're looking for, we
difficult decisions. runways is not have the ability to go
However, if you fully particularly unique deep.
understand the pros and among fundamental
cons and have studied investors. We're “Across our four-
the operational cognizant of that. What I person investment
questions sufficiently, think Alta Fox has done
which I see very few well since inception is team, we look at
people launching do, having the ability to go
frankly, I think you're in both very wide and very about 25 companies a
a better position to make deep in our research week. It's a KPI we
those decisions. process. This is difficult
to do, but every single track religiously. I
aspect of our investing
G&D: process is designed with am very much a
Give us an overview of this goal in mind. For believer of the Peter
Alta Fox. What’s your example, we have a very
investment philosophy high velocity of ideas, Lynch view, that the
and investable universe? but we kill ideas very
quickly. For every person who turns
And is there anything
else that you think is analyst that has joined over the most rocks is
unique about your firm? our team, this has been
quite an adjustment. We likely to win the
are not a firm where you
CH: get one idea and you
game. We turn over a
Alta Fox has a flexible come back two weeks lot of rocks at Alta
mandate by design. We later and tell us whether
invest globally. We you think it's interesting Fox and once we find
invest in both public or not. It's more like, one that fits what
companies and private here are six ideas and
companies. We invest as let's talk about them two we're looking for, we
passive holders, activists days from now, for an
initial level of analysis. have the ability to go
and everything in
between. Nothing is off Once we identify a deep.”
limits if the business is in business that potentially
our circle of competence, fits our criteria, we have (Continued on page 24)
and we can develop a
Page 24
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
G&D: process, and we move adjacent industry. So,
An analyst at your firm on to the next. Once we we try not to get
gets assigned a name or find something that is pigeonholed by dictating
comes across a company potentially interesting “we're looking for this.”
that seems potentially within those guardrails, For every company we
interesting. What does again, we'll drop research, there are
that one- or two-day everything and sharpen dozens of companies
initial research process our pencils. that interact with it in
look like? some way as suppliers,
“There are a lot of competitors, etc. We will
businesses, even high hop from one company
CH: to the next, wherever
quality businesses our research leads us.
Well, we have a very
high bar for what IRRs with good
are interesting. So, management teams, G&D:
we're typically looking
for 25% plus on a three- that you can quickly You made an interesting
year IRR basis. There observation in one of
eliminate in the first your quarterly letters
are a lot of businesses,
even high quality couple of hours of that Alta Fox had done
businesses with good better in the small cap
work if the setup does space versus the micro-
management teams,
that you can quickly not exist to potentially cap space. Many
eliminate in the first investors are under this
generate a 25% IRR.” impression that the
couple of hours of work
if the setup does not micro-cap space is the
exist to potentially most inefficient of any
G&D: market cap bucket. Can
generate a 25% IRR. On
the first level of analysis, For your idea funnel, are you talk about why you
the analysts are trying to you using screens? Or is moved away from micro-
put guardrails around it sort of a bespoke caps and into bigger
what is reasonable from process? How do you names and why you
a revenue perspective, a typically find most of think that’s a better
margin expansion your interesting ideas? hunting ground for Alta
perspective, a multiple Fox?
perspective, and a CH:
balance sheet utilization CH:
perspective. The various We source ideas through
levers to generate an a combination of Well, I do believe that
IRR, what are methods. Screening is micro-caps are
reasonable, and is there an important part of the inefficient as is the
the potential to generate process. A strong entire Small-to-Mid cap
a very attractive, 25% network of contacts and space. However, at Alta
plus IRR over the next boots on the ground Fox we often like to cut
three years? If the research is also our losers quickly and let
answer is no, then we'll important. However, our winners ride. I think
file away that probably our favorite that is a difficult
information. It doesn't method of generating approach with micro-
get lost. We have ideas is talking to caps because even the
software that captures companies and industry most successful micro-
all of this information experts and then having caps inevitably run into
and will alert us to when that organic process lead various bumps in the
these companies are us to other leading road; they’re less
approaching price companies. It could be a diversified businesses. It
targets that start to get competitor or a supplier. happens. So, if you are
interesting. So, we don't We often find that is one cutting exposure during
ever lose that of the most organic ways that time, it’s
information, but we of researching ideas, challenging to generate
quickly kill the idea in whether it's in the same
terms of our research industry or in an (Continued on page 25)
Page 25
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
the long-term results hip, if you will. And I
that we are targeting at G&D:
Alta Fox. As a result, for “In my opinion,
our own investing We spend a lot of time
process, we have found at Columbia Business position sizing should
it more fruitful to focus School thinking about be much more of a
on high growth security selection,
companies in a slightly obviously very science than how
more mature phase of important, but as you most investors
their growth. You might know, it's only half the
miss the first double or job. As portfolio approach it. We use
triple, but in many cases manager, you have to software that we have
the business has been size the positions as
significantly de-risked, well. How do you customized over the
so you have higher approach that aspect of last four and a half
conviction to hold the investing and what's
business for the long your framework for years that takes our
term. position sizing? projected IRRs as well
as our quantifiable
G&D: CH:
scores across several
Maybe we could touch I believe investing is
both an art and a important investing
on the private side of the
book as well. Is every science. In my opinion, criteria that we've
analyst looking at position sizing should be
much more of a science identified to generate
private ideas as well as
public? What does the than how most investors optimal position
time allocation between approach it. We use
software that we have sizing.”
those two books look
like? customized over the last think that's a significant
four and a half years mistake.
that takes our projected
CH: IRRs as well as our
quantifiable scores G&D:
Not every analyst is
looking at both. Some across several important You've written publicly
are. However, every investing criteria that about several long ideas,
analyst is having we've identified to but you also short. Could
conversations about generate optimal you talk about your
what we’re seeing as the position sizing. There are overall framework for
most attractive returns obviously top-down shorts? Any common
on the public side versus constraints as well, short setups that you
the private side. And married with our bottom could walk us through?
that’s important. And so, -up qualitative decisions.
we’re sharing insights While we do not follow
across the team and this process religiously, CH:
we’ve found significant we do have very high We tend to be risk
synergies. Being a public correlation. So, roughly averse on the long side,
investor makes it easier 80% plus. It is a forced but extremely risk
for us to diligence check on our analysis. It averse on the short side.
private companies, and instills position-level As a result, we typically
diligence in private discipline, and it allows avoid high short interest
companies often yields us to track hundreds of or otherwise crowded
insights valuable on the ideas on our watch list in shorts. Typically, we're
public side. So we found a very efficient manner. looking for structurally
it helpful in both Investing is both art and challenged businesses,
directions. But we do science, but I think this cyclical peaks or fads, as
have some analysts that is a particular area an example. Our
are focused more on the where a lot of underwriting process for
private side than public fundamental investors
and vice versa. kind of shoot from the (Continued on page 26)
Page 26
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
shorts is similar to the activism. It's a lot of game to take on that
underwriting process for hard work and expensive capital allocation
longs, but our sizing and from a capital thoughtfulness, even
trading around the perspective and even when it is likely to
positions is a bit more so from a time unlock significant
different primarily for perspective. However, I shareholder value.
risk management do think it fulfills a We typically do not
purposes. necessary role in the screen for activist ideas.
market to combat We try to approach
entrenched directors everything from a
G&D: looking out for constructive manner
In 2020, you initiated themselves instead of alongside management
two notable activist fulfilling their fiduciary teams and boards. It's
campaigns, Collectors duties. only when we identify a
Universe and Enlabs AB In terms of whether it's really exceptional
(NLAB SS). What were worth the time and how opportunity where the
some of your takeaways we think about that, we only way to unlock the
from that period? And try to find good highest possible return is
how do you decide when businesses that should through change that we
to go activist versus be great rather than would consider engaging
when to just pass and looking for bad
maximize your return on businesses that could be “I'm passionate about
time? okay. It would be very
corporate governance.
unlikely for you to see us
involved in an activist I think it's extremely
CH:
situation that involves
I'm passionate about important and bad
some massive
corporate governance. I turnaround in corporate governance
think it's extremely operations. I think
important and bad hurts everyone except
Collectors Universe is a
corporate governance great example. It was a a small few; typically
hurts everyone except a really good business, but
small few; typically entrenched directors
they were paying out
entrenched directors or most of their cash flow or members of
members of as dividends instead of
management. I think it's management. I think
reinvesting in their
actually a real societal business around their it's actually a real
concern and an issue core competencies and
with market integrity. societal concern and
competitive advantages
We always strive to to unlock additional an issue with market
engage in a constructive shareholder value. So, it
manner with integrity.”
was sort of this mindless
management teams and capital allocation policy. from of an activist
have excellent perspective.
I think activists often get
relationships with the
a little bit of a stigma of
vast majority of our
“they just want to cut G&D:
portfolio companies.
costs, they just want to
Unfortunately, there are What are some
fire people”, etc. In
instances in which examples of typical
many of our cases, it's
management teams and capital allocation
the exact opposite. We
boards are unwilling to mistakes that
want to invest more, we
do the right thing for management teams
want to unlock higher
shareholders. But the make?
growth, and, ultimately,
value that can be
that rewards all
unlocked is tremendous.
stakeholders. But you
In these situations, CH:
sometimes have
activism is a valuable Well, I think a lot of
entrenched directors or
tool that can benefit all management teams and
management that have
stakeholders. I do not
very little skin in the
particularly enjoy (Continued on page 27)
Page 27
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
boards do not G&D: that was an unfortunate
understand how public Do you typically have situation and it never
securities are valued. For this engagement needed to lead to
example, if you're just mindset before initiating activism. Additionally,
thinking about growing a position? the company tried to sell
your profits but you at a very low price,
don't understand across which we then had to
various segments that CH: oppose. We are
some segments will be confident that our
It can be both. We don't
valued higher than involvement helped lead
go looking for fights. In
others, it can lead you to to a much better
the case of Collectors,
make bad capital outcome for
for example, we invested
allocation choices. I shareholders than
in the business because
think even great would've come to pass
we thought it was a
operators of businesses otherwise. In the case of
good business that
do not necessarily have something like Enlabs,
would generate
that investor mindset, the fight kind of found
attractive returns even
which is really important us. We were big fans of
on a standalone, no
because if your goal is to the management team,
change basis. We also
increase shareholder but the company
thought it could
value, you need to accepted a takeover
generate extraordinary
understand how offer that was
returns with capital
shareholders value your completely inadequate.
allocation changes, and
business. Many The circumstances
we started to engage
management teams and around that acceptance
with the company about
boards do not were questionable in our
how they could create
understand this, and it view, that this might
more value, not in a
“I think even great hostile way, but in a have been best for some
collaborative way: “we particular individuals,
operators of businesses own a lot of shares, we but not for shareholders.
want to see your And we had to take a
do not necessarily have stance as a large
company succeed, and
that investor mindset, here are some of the shareholder that had the
ideas we have”. In those capability of blocking the
which is really situations, we hope that deal to say we're not
the management team going to allow this to
important because if happen. Within a couple
and the board will
your goal is to increase interact in a days of their initial
collaborative manner for lowball offer, we had
shareholder value, you the benefit of all drafted a press release
shareholders, as they announcing our public
need to understand opposition alongside
are supposed to do in
how shareholders the spirit of their other major
fiduciary duty. shareholders, which
value your business. collectively represented
In the case of Collectors,
Many management a blocking vote. We told
unfortunately, the
the buying group to
Chairman of the
teams and boards do come back with
company basically
something that
not understand this, questioned why he
represents closer to fair
should listen to us and
and it leads to serious value or this deal will get
told us to stop bothering
blocked. Our actions
him and that we could
capital allocation manufactured a much
sell our shares if we
better outcome for all
errors.” disagreed with his
shareholders. But I think
decisions. The Chairman
both of these examples
leads to serious capital owned very few shares
and many others
allocation errors. of the business (so it
illustrate that if activism
was really more our
business than his), but (Continued on page 28)
Page 28
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
is done in the right way, our wall of fame. treats it that way
it does not deserve any Another would be because he is a
sort of stigma. In fact, it Howard Jonas at IDT shareholder himself.
should be celebrated. It (NYSE: IDT). IDT is a There was even a time
requires extraordinary conglomerate, but it has early on where he had to
effort, time, and cost for had 20% plus annualized put some expenses on
a single shareholder to share returns for the last his own personal credit
create positive outcomes decade inclusive of all card for the business.
for all shareholders. And spinoffs. They've done You don't see that level
that is extremely an exceptional job of of dedication from most
beneficial to the market incubating businesses executives who are
ecosystem. I think it's with their legacy cash getting paid millions
very much needed today flows and then spinning without really taking on
because corporate off those businesses to any personal risks. So, I
governance is in such a investors. We have great think he's been all in
bad state in the US. respect for that alongside shareholders
management team and and he's really focused
the leaders inside their on the long-term value
G&D: respective businesses. creation and that's
You wrote in one of your refreshing.
past letters that Alta Fox
was in the process of G&D: In the case of Howard
compiling this wall of What are some of the Jonas, he is incredibly
fame of successful things that stand out thoughtful about capital
capital allocators. Could about Ryan Pape and allocation at IDT, the
you share any of the Howard Jonas? Are there parent company that he
names on that list that certain tells that you see founded. It's a relatively
you think readers and when you're reading small market cap today,
investors out there about them or speaking but that's only because
should be following more with them that make you they have spun off
closely? think that these guys are multiple businesses
great capital allocators? successfully that they've
incubated over time.
CH: There are a lot of empire
CH: builders in corporate
There are some that
America today that want
would be well known by The first thing is that
to have their business be
your readers that are they're all-in on their
bigger and more
extraordinary value business. They're not
noticeable and collect a
creators, but I'll give a there to just collect a
bigger salary, as a
couple off the beaten salary. They have the
result. At IDT, they’ve
path exaples. Ryan majority of their net
sort of done the
Pape, the CEO at XPEL worth invested in the
opposite. They're
(NASDAQ: XPEL) is one business and every
extremely frugal on
who comes to mind. He's single day they're fired
costs. They don't have
done an extraordinary up to create shareholder
any sell-side coverage,
job. XPEL has had some value. XPEL is a business
and they don't
of the highest value that doesn't issue
particularly care. They
creation of any public shares. It's very easy to
just want to compound
security in the markets forecast their shares
value per share at
during his tenure. And outstanding for the next
attractive rates over
he has the right capital quarter because it's the
time. And they're very
allocation mindset. He's same every quarter,
thoughtful about how
fully invested in his every year. They treat
they allocate capital,
business with a majority shares like gold, like a
whether it be for
of his net worth. He has valuable currency. That
acquisitions or spinoffs,
been rewarded, as have behavior is rare in an era
and it shows up in the
investors, for his where stock-based
long-term results.
excellent leadership. So, compensation and
I think he's one to study rampant dilution is quite
and he is certainly on common. Ryan Pape (Continued on page 29)
Page 29
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
in excess of 20% over break into the
“The first thing is that the last decade. We investment management
they're all-in on their believe this story is business? And when
about to repeat. IDT has you're hiring an analyst,
business. They're not one business in what are the things
particular, NRS, National you're looking for?
there to just collect a Retail Solutions, which
salary. They have the we believe is spectacular
and, on our numbers, is CH:
majority of their net worth substantially more In terms of advice, I
than the entire would say start from first
worth invested in the enterprise value of IDT principles. Don't assume
business and every today. NRS is a point-of- you will find the world's
sale system for greatest mentor who will
single day they're fired individual convenience teach you everything
stores. It is essentially a they know. Study the
up to create monopoly and has 90% greatest investors of all
shareholder plus gross margins on time and weave in their
non-hardware revenue. many teachings with
value...They treat In the last two years, your own personality to
the business has gone find what makes sense
shares like gold, like a from negative EBITDA for you. Really take
valuable currency. margins to over 36% in control of your own
the last quarter. investing journey. There
That behavior is rare in are many ways to make
In a couple of years, we
an era where stock- believe this will be a money but having a
60% EBITDA margin defined process that you
based compensation business. It is also can personally rely on in
currently growing times of market
and rampant dilution is turbulence is essential.
revenue in excess of
quite common.” 130% year-on-year. We So, that would be my
are unaware of any advice on the investing
asset in the public side.
markets that has such
an exceptional
In terms of what I look
combination of top line
for when hiring analysts,
G&D: growth and profitability.
first and foremost, I look
That’s a good segue for We expect NRS will be
for people who are
us to dive into IDT. spun off to shareholders
highly passionate about
Could walk us through sometime in the next
investing and who are
the thesis on IDT? two or three years and
ultra-competitive. I want
that investors at today's
people who eat, sleep
prices will be greatly
and breathe investing
CH: rewarded. There has
and recognize it as the
been some concern over
Sure. IDT is a small cap greatest game in the
a pending lawsuit. Our
conglomerate that lacks world and have a deep
diligence suggests that
any sell-side coverage or desire to win. Second,
you are being more than
a natural investor base. they have to be team
compensated for this
Historically, the players. We win and lose
risk at today's prices.
company has used their as a team at Alta Fox,
But as for any position
legacy business cash and having that team
with a left tail risk it is
flows from their telecom approach with
important to size the
business to incubate competitive individuals
position appropriately.
businesses and then spin can yield incredible
them off. The strategy outcomes. I'm very
has been extremely G&D: blessed to have an
successful as IDT has extraordinarily talented
compounded inclusive of Do you have any advice team at Alta Fox.
spinoffs value per share for undergrad or MBA
(Continued on page 30)
students that want to
Page 30
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
everything and develop the firm for long-term
a really good baseline. outperformance and
Once you get a good where we should be
G&D: baseline, you need to investing our resources,
Do you have any advice start really practicing the many iterations from
for young people looking and developing models that first document are
to become better and get out of the still highly relevant.
investors? What are the theoretical world into the I think it's really starting
things that you did that practical world. From from there. Don't have
you think really there, I think you'll learn any preconceptions
accelerated your with every investment about how you should
learning curve? you make or pass on. invest. Go look at who
has succeeded in the
G&D: past and how they
CH:
succeeded. What lessons
I would read everything You mentioned first are still relevant today?
Joel Greenblatt has ever principles a few times Who is the most forward
put out. I'd read and we were wondering thinking today? What
everything that Peter if you could talk a little can you learn from
Lynch has ever put out. bit more about how you them? What strengths or
I'd read the old Warren incorporate first weaknesses do you have
Buffet partnership letters principles into your that you can bring to the
as well as all of the process and your table? So, it's really
Berkshire Hathaway thinking. Additionally, starting with a blank
annual reports. Read could you provide some sheet of paper and
everything that investors advice for students on saying, how do I hope to
with exceptional long- how to develop mental outperform? Then,
term track records of frameworks around first iterating on that over
alpha and principles? time based on your
outperformance have practical experiences
put out there. And try and implementing that in
and really understand CH:
a systematic, scalable,
how those principles I'm a big believer in
resonate with you. You'll having clear outlines. “I think it's important
take the best of each of Anytime I wrote a paper, to develop an outline,
them and weave them in I had a really detailed
with your own outline going from the a detailed framework
personality and style. first thesis to the sub for how you hope to
In addition to reading, I bullets to the next. I
think it's important to outperform in the
think it's important to be
a practitioner. Start a develop an outline, a markets. And that
small personal account. detailed framework for
how you hope to should be a living,
Start investing on your
own. If you can't do outperform in the breathing document
that, start a virtual markets. And that
should be a living, that changes over
account, but take the
positions seriously, breathing document that time and incorporates
manage it as if you are changes over time and
incorporates all your all your experiences
managing a fund. Get on
the quarterly conference experiences and your and your learnings.”
calls, have a model that learnings. I started with
you compare your own one when I was in high and repeatable
expectations versus school and it wasn't that investment process.
reality and sort of good, but it got better
G&D:
recognize what you're every single year. It is
still something that I There's this ongoing
good at and what you're
think about, analyze, debate in the investment
not, and make mistakes
and tweak. When I think community, whether it's
over time. There's no
about my role at Alta better to be a generalist
substitute for that. I
think you've got to read Fox and how to position (Continued on page 31)
Page 31
Rudi vanHaley,
Connor Niekerk,
AltaDesert Lion Capital
Fox Capital Management
or whether it's better to you're not investing?
be a very focused
specialist. Depending on
who you talk to, they'll CH:
have very different I have an 18-month-old
opinions. What is your daughter who takes up a
take on that debate? lot of my extraneous
time, but beyond that, I
love to compete in pretty
CH: much anything. Strategy
I don't think it's black or games, sports, video
white. There are merits games, ping pong. I'm
to both. I think either currently the Alta Fox
can be successful and I ping pong champion. I
think it would be wrong play something called
to come to any other Bughouse, which is like a
conclusion because there 2v2 fast-paced chess
are obviously numerous variant, which is very
examples of success in niche but fun. On the
both camps. I think it sports side, I enjoy golf
also varies by sector. and pick-up basketball.
There are some sectors Video games, I enjoy
that lend themselves to playing Apex Legends
specialization more so with friends. It's a fun
than others. I think if way to stay in touch with
you're a generalist, you friends, but also has
need to really think skill, strategy, and
about how you can teamwork elements. I'm
maximize the value of usually game for any
being a generalist by type of competition, and
having a really that's certainly a
systematic process to consistent theme at Alta
compare the relative Fox.
investment merits across
very different industries
and geographies. If you G&D:
develop that really clear Thanks Connor, this was
approach, you can great.
consistently put yourself
in interesting positions.
You can be successful in CH:
either camp. However, I Thanks for having me.
think the issue that
generalists sometimes
run into is when they
don't have a defined
process to make sure
they're maximizing their
return on time by
focusing on really
interesting things that
are likely to be mispriced
by the market in a
variety of industries.
G&D:
Last question before we
let you go. What do you
like to do for fun when
Page 32
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