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Wanted: Plans or ideas for FA air gun internals

 befunovo ·  Nov 9, 2006 ·  8 ·  3,933

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B Plastic

Nov 9, 2006  #1

Hello all. I have an odd question. I am looking for plans and ideas on how to build a semi/full auto air gun. I am looking to make it for 1/4" ball
bearings. I also do not want a spurt or vortex gun.

I would like to build it to operate either closed or open bolt. Air supply will be 150 psi shop air. Size is also not a big concern. Not looking for
some small portable thing. The attached aircompressor would slow me down quite a bit!

I have looked through the threads and viewed some of the links. But I am looking more for something like the internals of a paintball gun. That
is my next recourse, buy paintball gun and take them apart to see how they work.

Can anyone help me out? Have you taken apart semi airguns to see how they work? Is there a source for plans or ideas? Tried googling this
and you always end up at airsoft sites or paintball manufacturers it seems. No real ho-to/manufacturing data.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Brian
 Racer Al
Stainless

Nov 9, 2006  #2

Do a google search for spud guns and/or potato guns.

They use a device commonly described as a flap valve or diaphram. It's a hydraulic quick-dump valve, which is also used in truck air brakes.
When the supply is removed, the valve releases.

Also, try this guy's site, which is a fun and informative site anyway... the guy has a wildly hyperactive imagination, and seems to actually finish
projects:

http://www.gizmology.net/pbm.htm

One other idea is to look at the inner workings -- i.e. the valving, piston travel, and air circuitry -- of a pneumatic hammer or riveter. They use
air pressure to drive the anvil both forward and backward. This could be used to run your action.

A word of caution -- 150psi and 1/4" bearings are enough to really, really hurt someone, and a hardened steel bng WILL bounce quite
vigorously and unpredictably if it hits something hard.

Do be careful. If you're married to 150psi, I'd recommend against using plastics for any part that will see pressure, especially if you're
machining it in any way.

trevj
T Titanium

Nov 9, 2006  #3

No dis to Racer Al, but spud gun diaphram valves prolly aint much use to you. The unit on the page he linked, looks pretty neat, though, and I
suppose it's based on a similar principle. I see that he had not a lot of luck with the execution of his design, though.

There are quite a few guys playing with airguns, but hardly anyone writing the stuff down.

The trigger mech on the average semi auto paintball gun is as close as I've ever seen to an SMG open bolt trigger group, readilly available. I
actually have a paintmarker here that I would like to do a similar project on, to run either BBs or 6mm airsoft ammo through. Pretty basic to put
one more selection on the safety lever, to defeat the reset requirement on the trigger.

Do a google for MacGlashan IIRC. They made a training system that looked about the same as a 1919 Browning, that ran at air compressor
pressures. Very sought after by collectors, and not a lot were made. WW2 vintage stuff.

In the last few years, an Airgun magazine came and went out of the US marketplace. In one issue, they did a review on a full auto M16 look
alike that was .25 caliber, shooting lead roundballs at appreciable velocities. It was set up on high pressure compressed air or nitrogen IIRC.
Maybe CO2. I have the issue around somwhere, I'll post the name if I can find it. It used a tube magazine full of BBs and a revolving cylinder
like a short version of what you would find on a handgun, to feed the beast. They had a suitably fun looking picture of the splash pattern on
water to show the relative rate of fire. As I recall the valving appeared to be not much different than any other airgun or paintmarker.

The difficult part, as I see it, is going to be getting reasonable performance on shop air. Easier with a larger bore (force x area) and lighter
ammunition.

Something similar to the military (MacGlashan) trainer could be set up out back with a suitable range. I think the Feltman carnival tommy gun
style ones ran low pressure too, but were siphon feed style internally.

You might wish to peruse bbmachineguns.com, as well as take a look at the link to the airsoft miniguns off the miniguns.com website.

For the solution to the lack of high pressure air, look to the paintball world for some pretty cool tech. A lot of them are going high tech, with
more full auto guns available, some mechanical, and others using electronics to cycle the works.

Some food for thought, anyway. Can you tell I'm interested in the stuff?

Cheers
Trevor Jones

befunovo
B Plastic

Nov 10, 2006  #4

Thanks for the info Trevor. Will look into it. Funny you should mention the 1919A4. That is what I want to fit it into. Slide the guts out of a
1919A4 and slide the airgun internals in. Wanted shop air so I could run it off a compressor. But would consider a scuba tank setup.

I figure a semiauto design would work fine. The paintball guys use electronic triggers to fire the 3 shot or FA guns. Solenoid trips the sear. I
figure with an electronic trigger you could build a simple timing circuit and be able to adjust the rate of fire from 3 to 8 shots per second. Also, a
bolt cycling back and forth would give the effect of a light recoil.

This is my next project. The 1919A4 semi in 8mm should be finished up this month!

Will look into it and keep you posted.

brian

barlow L
B Aluminum

Nov 16, 2006  #5

Brian,
I would suggest you ask this question here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/9013/ it is The Tinker's Guild. Some of the best paintball minds hang there.
Nearly every mechanical paintball maker can be modified to run FA. The only problem is feeding. Which leads to many more problems.
Thinking about this, you may not have the same problems with the weight of the ball bearings.

Lee
 trevj
T Titanium

Nov 17, 2006  #6

If you can afford to feed it on, say, 1/4 or 6mm ball bearings, it would not be too tough to build a magnet into the bolt face to ensure a positive
feed, or a magnet in the ammo feed pathe to hold the bb in place awaiting the arrival of the bolt.

Radio Shack aka The Source by Circuit City, sells a nice little booklet on 555 IC timer circuits that might be worth a look to see if that route is
worth going.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

befunovo
B Plastic

Nov 17, 2006  #7

it's diet will be 1/4 or 5/16 ball bearings. Will still be way cheaper to shoot than the 8mm belt fed or a real machinegun

555 timers are easy. I plan to use that combined with a solenoid for fire rate control. Set up a rehostat and be able to dial the RAF from 3 to 7
shots per second. At 420 rpm, that is close to what the real 1919 does.

1919 should be done this weekend, Monday I am looking at some paintball guns for the airgun project.

bbmachinegun page is mostly venturi or spurt guns. I want a cycling bolt, not just sucking up bb's and spraying them out.
Brian

barlow L
B Aluminum

Nov 17, 2006  #8

Here's a website with paintball, airgun, airsoft and other patents. Some show detailed internals, some don't.

There are several basic types of paintball markers:

in line valve blow forward and blowback,
stacked tube blow forward and blowback

There is a feed system called "warpfeed" that could be modified for the ball bearings. It can be concealed in the ammo can and feed to the
weapon via a tube.
You have certainly perked an interest here.

Lee

barlow L
B Aluminum

Nov 18, 2006  #9

What are your thoughts for a barrel? I found here:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/me/index.html
3/8 steel and aluminum tubing with a .259 ID. May be perfect for 1/4 balls.

If you wanted to keep this strictly pneumatic, A young man by the name of Hellbore at the Tinker's Guild designed a pneumatic firing system
that has an adjustable ROF. It uses a Autococker ram to actuate the trigger. All the parts can be purcashed through Clippard:
http://www.minimatic.com/
If interested, I'll dig out his drawing.

I had/have the notion of doing something similar. I wanted to modify a paintball maker to shoot regular paintballs through the M2HB in the shop
on rainy days.

Lee

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