Act Six, Office Climate and Climate Office.

So any new president gets to appoint over 4,000 people to various

positions, but most of the people in those big buildings in
Washington DC are not those 4,000 people. They are civil servants.
Most of them stay in their jobs from one administration to the next,
whoever's in power. Not all of them. Our producer David
Kestenbaum spoke with a couple of civil servants in DC who were
deciding whether to stick around.

David Kestenbaum

Laura works at the Department of Energy, one of the agencies that

seems like it might change dramatically under the new president.
She asked us not to use her real name and to have an actor do her
voice, even though she knows that's probably overkill.

She says as a civil servant you're supposed to keep your politics and
your job separate. Your job is to enact the policies of whoever's in
power, Democrat or Republican. But the first day back after the
election it was hard to keep her politics to herself.

Laura

I've never cried at work before. When you cry, you can't hide the
fact afterwards-- at least for me, my face gets really red. So I had a
meeting or whatever. I just had to be like, sorry, I just had a moment.
And then everybody else was like, yeah, we did, too. It's not just
you.
David Kestenbaum

I don't want to get into too much detail, but your job is climate
change-related?

Laura

Yes.

David Kestenbaum

How many people at DoE do you think are unconvinced that humans
are causing global warming?

Laura

I don't know anyone at DoE who thinks that.

David Kestenbaum

Do you think it's literally zero?

Laura

Probably zero or close to zero.

David Kestenbaum

It looked like that number would rise by at least one. Rick Perry,
Trump's pick to run the DoE, had written in his own book that he
thought the science showing humans were contributing to climate
change was a, quote, "contrived phony mess."

As you may have heard, Trump's team sent a list of questions to the
DoE asking, among other things, the names of people who had
attended UN climate change meetings. Democrats saw it as a kind of
witch hunt.

Rick Perry now says his views on climate change have changed and
that he didn't approve of the questionnaire. But after the election,
Laura spent a lot of time wondering, should I stay in this job? What
would it be like? What if the new bosses ask me to do something I
just think is wrong?

David Kestenbaum

Like what if there were some report or something and someone

asked you to take out all the references to climate change?

Laura

Well, we already did that.

David Kestenbaum

You already did that?

Laura

Yeah, we have.
David Kestenbaum

Laura says she and a bunch of other people have been going through
all their internal documents that describe ongoing projects and just
scrubbing them, deleting the parts where it says, "and here's how this
will help us combat climate change." Laura didn't want to talk
specifics, but you could imagine a satellite for monitoring climate
change and saying, think of it as a weather satellite instead. This
renewable energy program? Now it's a jobs program.

Most federal projects have a bunch of reasons for their existence.

Why draw attention to something by putting the words "climate
change" in the description?

David Kestenbaum

Did it feel sad to take it out?

Laura

No.

David Kestenbaum

Because you thought, this is a way we can get by?

Laura

Yeah, exactly. That was my thought. As long as it's getting done, it

doesn't matter what we call it.
David Kestenbaum

Laura's entire time at the DoE has been under Obama. She's never
been through a change of power before. That first day after the
election, there was this big all-staff meeting at the DoE. That made
her feel a little better-- not because it was emotional, but because it
wasn't. It was professional, just like, here's what happens next.

Laura

I think what made it OK was it was very matter-of-fact. Like, the

transition team is going to come in in the next few days. They didn't.
They came in like several weeks later.

David Kestenbaum

When the transition team did arrive at DoE, Laura went on what felt
like a kid detective mission to try to see the invaders. She knew they
were on the fifth floor, so she went up there with a friend. They tried
to play it cool, had to do a couple laps because they missed the room
the first time. But there it was.

Laura

It literally said on the door, "transition team." And I elbowed my

friend, and she was like, I saw it. It wasn't like something was
hidden or something, but I felt very like, oh, wow. There it is.

David Kestenbaum

Somehow seeing the office make you feel more reassured?

Laura

Yeah, because the name was on the door. It's one of these things. It's
like, well, they're not trying to hide anything. They're just there
doing their job.

David Kestenbaum

I talked to this other government worker who we'll call Karen.

Karen's a relatively senior person. She served under a Democrat and
a Republican. Karen says a bunch of younger coworkers have been
coming into her office, closing the door, and saying, do you have a
minute to talk? It's like she's become a therapist. Some of the people
are trying to figure out what to do-- stay or leave. If you stay, at least
you can try to steer things. Or you can fight.

And by fight, I mean that in the most bureaucratic way possible.

Government moves very slowly, which is a pain when you're trying
to get things done. But if you're trying to stop something from
happening, it can be used to your advantage.

Karen

Withholding information is one way you slow things down. The

bureaucracy is large. There's a lot of paperwork, a lot of steps, and
people that have been in government for a long time understand all
those steps really well. So some of those tactics may be used to
make things go a lot slower.

David Kestenbaum
One government worker told me he knew some people who were
really good at this. It's like the dark arts of civil service. You can
refer things to the general counsel for legal review. That takes time.
You can also try to hide things.

One relatively senior official who recently left government has been
advising those who stayed behind to just lay low, keep any
controversial stuff under the radar. Karen knows that trick.

Karen

It's not like you can come into the government and, with the click of
a button, find everything you need to know on any topic we've
worked on for the last 15 years.

David Kestenbaum

So literally, there might be like programs or documents or things that

are just so well hidden that they'd never find out about them?

Karen

You could say that.

David Kestenbaum

Are people talking about doing that kind of stuff?

Karen
I think people don't know yet how they will react because they are
waiting to see if what they are predicting may happen does come to
pass.

David Kestenbaum

But if it does?

Karen

There are definitely some career civil servants that will not ever give
in, and I think there are definitely some career civil servants that will
toe the line. But I think the people that know how the system works
have used these tactics within many administrations.

David Kestenbaum

Sounds kind of wrong. It doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

Karen

I think when you've worked on something for a long time and you've
devoted your entire career to it and you believe it is the right thing to
do, people will do their jobs. But when they think that what they are
doing is harmful to citizens or the country in the long run, I think
they will stand up for what they believe in the bureaucratic ways that
they can.

David Kestenbaum
Karen is not going to be doing any of that. I imagine that's true of
most people. They'll either do their jobs like good civil servants or
they'll just leave. Karen is leaving. It didn't take her long to decide.
She knew almost immediately, on election night.

Karen

I remember saying to a close friend, wow, I'll be departing from my

job in January. And I'm a career public servant. [SOBS] I'm sorry.

David Kestenbaum

Laura, at the Department of Energy, took longer to make up her

mind. Senior people there-- Democrats-- were urging people to stay
under Trump. Don't leave, they said. We need good people here. If
you leave, you don't know who will replace you. And you don't
know how bad it'll be. Maybe it'll be OK.

It was that questionnaire that sealed things for her, the one that made
the news and asked for the names of people who had attended UN
climate change talks. Laura wasn't in the office when the news
broke. She heard about it by email from a friend in another part of
government.

Laura

Well, she was like, this doesn't look good, basically. And I was like,
on the contrary, this is kind of funny.

David Kestenbaum
It seemed like such an amateur move. The DoE, by the way, refused
to provide any names.

Laura

That just seemed like a scare tactic to me, and I didn't want to
reward that sort of brazen attempt to get people to leave the agency.
I'm not leaving.

David Kestenbaum

Are you thinking like, I can last four years?

Laura

I think I can last four years.

David Kestenbaum

Could you last eight?

Laura

I probably wouldn't stay for eight, no.

David Kestenbaum

What are you doing for the inauguration?

Laura
Probably hanging out with my friends in a bar.

David Kestenbaum

Watching it or avoiding it?

Laura

Not watching it. I've already seen enough of him to last a lifetime.

David Kestenbaum

Well, she's going to be seeing more of him, as she knows.

Laura

We have these pictures hanging up in every office of the president,

the vice president, the secretary of energy, and they're all going to
change.

David Kestenbaum

You're going to have a picture of Donald Trump in your office?

Laura

Yes. And Mike Pence and Rick Perry and whoever the
undersecretary is.

David Kestenbaum
How do you feel about that?

Laura

I don't know. At least-- I mean, like-- that's like-- [SIGHS] it's just a
reminder of the world we live in every day. I think you can bury
your head a little bit and try to keep doing what you're doing, but
there are people you answer to and that picture makes you remember
who they are.

David Kestenbaum

We looked into it. The portraits of Obama and his officials were
scheduled to be removed on Friday at noon, the exact time Donald
Trump took the oath of office. We were told the pictures would be
disposed of respectfully. In my mind, there's a big dumpster
somewhere with all of the photos in it, like an actual dustbin of
history. The frames do get saved and reused for the new portraits.
They're going to be going up in the next few weeks.

Ira Glass

David Kestenbaum is one of the producers of our program. The actor

who performed Laura's quotes is Jen Davis.

Credits

Ira Glass

Our program was produced today by David Kestenbaum. Our

production staff includes Susan Burton, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvas,
Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Karen Duffin, Emmanuel Dzotsi,
Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar,
Robyn Semien, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Diane Wu.
Research help today from Christopher Swetala and Michelle Harris.
Music help today from Damian Graef.

[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS]

Our website, thisamericanlife.org. This American Life is delivered to

public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks as
always to our show's co-founder Mr. Torey Malatia. He does not
understand why the president's motorcade has to cause so much
traffic whenever he's driving around New York heading to Trump
Tower.

Kenia

Like, he has legs.

Ira Glass

I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories

of This American Life.