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Desire of porn and masturbation

Question

I have been contemplating death for the past couple of days- particularly at night, before and
after meditation.

At the beginning of 2017, having struggled with porn and masturbation for a significant portion
of my life, I decided to dedicate my path to self-improvement. Since the age of 12/13 to the age
of 22/23, I had PMO'd at least once or twice everyday -- never having gone a straight week, let
alone 30 days without watching porn or masturbating. It was a dark side of me that had spiraled
out of control.

Then I discovered r/nofap and r/pornfree and successfully completed a 166 day streak, what
most in those communities would consider a full reboot. Since then, my masturbation and porn
habits have been cut drastically. Up until a month ago, I had been relapsing once or twice every
2 weeks to a month (around 2-3 times a month). I had masturbated <20 times in the year of
2017
Readand
more<10 times so far, this year, 2018.

From masturbating and watching porn at 7-10 times a week to 1-2 times a month, my habit is
much tamer than it
Archived used
post. to be
New -- but it'scannot
comments still not
beasposted
tame as I wish
and votesit cannot
were. be cast.

I have meditated for at least 1 hour everyday for the past 4 months now. I have taken cold
showers ONLY, meaning no warm showers at all, for over 15 months now. I have slept without a
pillow15(no head support
28 at all) for the past 12 months now; and on a tatami mat on a box spring
for the past 2-3 months now.

I have
Sort by:been
Besttrying to enter a state of desireless-ness, and I find myself completely content with
the changes I have made. I no longer wish to sleep on a mattress or pillow, do not wish for warm
showers, and have generated an inner peace through meditation (which I never thought
heyoh1
possible). But•not
6 yr.with
ago porn and masturbation.

I had a 10 year porn addiction (softcore), tried to quit and couldn't...until I found
I wish to quit these habits completely. I am still haunted by my desires of porn and masturbation.
pornfree....I saw the yourbrain on porn video series...and read the willpower instinct by
I understand that a state of desire goes against Bhuddist philosophy, so how am I to approach
Kelly Mcgonigal.
this? How do I stop these feelings? Am I in the right state of mind by desiring to stop these
feelings? What
I found would
about the buddha
pranayama do?
and meditation... but my practice wasn't on a daily basis......I
started to practice meditation for 15 minutes until I reached one hour daily, now is the
I'm at a lost.
first thing I do on the morning.....now am +1600 day pornfree and nofap......my
advice.....just keep your daily practice...it's a matter of time.
And to those also struggling to porn and masturbation. r/nofap and r/pornfree and
r/semenretention have for
Edit: Some days helped me difficult....desire
me are immensely. I suggest these
its part subreddits
of our tomeditation
lives, with you as well.you
train yourself to be better at dealing with it
Thank you in advance for your help.
:
 12

1 more reply

aBuddhistPerspective • 6 yr. ago

Attempting to subdue all desire is counterproductive to the path. You have to use desire
to free yourself from desire:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/pushinglimits.html

Here are some guided meditations:

http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_guidedMed_index.html

I'd recommend reading deeper into the Buddha's original teachings. Here's a solid
primer: http://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#noblestrategy

Here's a solid meditation manual which can help troubleshoot your practice:
http://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#eachandeverybreath

Here's a bunch of good dhamma talks that you can listen to while you meditate:
http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_index.html

Here's a book that goes into detail on the most important aspects of the path:
http://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#wings

For more information, you can go to http://www.dhammatalks.org

If you want to go on retreat I'd recommend checking out http://WatMetta.org ,

http://forestdhamma.org or http://abhayagiri.org , there's no charge.

11

1 more reply

Temicco • 6 yr. ago

Go see a therapist. This seriously reminds me of how people with eating disorders talk
about food.

You're not struggling with PMO -- you're struggling with your rejection of it and your
desire to control it absolutely.

19

4 more replies

Shivy_Shankinz • 6 yr. ago • Edited 6 yr. ago

:
 I am still haunted by my desires of porn and masturbation

"That is why you fail."

-Yoda

You are trying way, way too hard. You build up too much pressure to accomplish your
goals. You are afraid to fail, your fear literally gets in your way and causes you to spiral
out of control.

Ask yourself, what are you afraid of? What haunts you, and why? Then learn to let go,
find peace, and you will discover the truth behind your suffering. This is the fastest path
to accomplish your goal. (I know because I've done it!)

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

I've overcome my addiction fully.

Sufficient sleep, whole foods, daily exercise, daily yoga, 1-2 hours meditation daily, and
confining my sexuality to my relationship.

You can do it and it is immensely worth it.

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

Sorry for the useless input but for me the whole point of not masturbating was focusing
on something else not keeping track of my "nofap" days and going on dedicated
subreddits but just put it aside and forget about it for a while, enjoy other things and feel
less "dirty".

I find NoFap weird af even tho I also try to not masturbate for period of times and if I do I
do it out of boredom not lust or needs.

Also the whole "relapse" thing is hilarious when you realise we actully talk about
masturbating.

kramyugtaht • 6 yr. ago

:
 Frankly I don't think the Nofap movement goes far enough, perhaps you are here
because you sense Buddhism may take it further.

I don't know how much you know about Buddhism but rememeber it's both grasping
AND aversion. While it's completely understandable that one would want to abstain for a
time, your relationship to those thoughts has to change on a deep level. I don't know
how much you know about Buddhism but also recall the poisons of greed, hatred and
delusion. Now some who does Nofap may advocate hatred of porn, which is aversion
but I would point out the understanding perspective is obviously that people are in some
state of ignorance. Greed and certainly delusion feature prominently of course, perhaps
delusion being the biggest one.

It is possible to have the natural sexual feelings but not act on them, or not have them in
a context of some strange pornographic narrative. You can in fact have non-attached
appreciation for someone with physical beauty, it does happen.

So in a nutshell, I would say you don't have to stop having those feelings, it's a question
of not acting on them and not associating the natural impulses with pornography and
the stories associated.

A buddhist who cultivates bodhicitta, which is interested in awakening for all taps into
the heart of the matter. This is where the relationship is different because it is not used
as a tool to improve oneself or overcome a specific issue. I think when the focus is on
the problem there is a tendency for one to not really go deep enough with the solution.
The fact is it IS possible for this kind of suffering to be addressed and rooted out
through this path but it ultimately goes deeper than a few basic strategies that's
possibly applied at sort of a superficial level on a specific thing.

mkpeacebkindbgentle • 6 yr. ago

Do you want to give up lust, i.e. give up sexual desire, or give up just the habit of porn
and masturbation?

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

:
 The Lojong slogan "if you can continue your practice in the midst of confusion, you are
well-trained" comes to mind here. Obviously we're trying to become enlightened here
but try not to think of your porn addiction as like a secret nightmare, sometimes these
things have to be explored from the inside out. So, the next time you relapse stay
aware...very aware...it's a very high-energy situation and you can transmute that into
awareness.

Actually, what I've found works best is just noting out loud. So when you're about to
relapse, say aloud "about to relapse" or "secretly planning to really do it". I know that
sounds absurd but highly--engineered phrased like that can significantly water down
human desire.

I'm really serious about the prior paragraph, noting out loud is super powerful. Keep
your awareness moving, try not to stay in one part of your body for too long and
gradually you'll melt this fourth dimensional ice-berg to a level where it doesn't bother
you quite as much.

TotesMessenger • 6 yr. ago

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

[r/meditation] Desire of porn and masturbation

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other

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[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

Honestly it sounds like you're doing great. You seem to have pretty great discipline and
are working towards your goal. The state you're searching for is something that will
come about gradually, but as long as you stick to your current path you should notice
those desires grow progressively weaker. I don't think you need to worry, what you need
to focus on now is adopting patience, because you seem to have a lot of the other
qualities down.

Mooba-moo • 6 yr. ago

Your strong dude

bodhiquest • 6 yr. ago

:
 What is it that you're looking for with porn and masturbation? Are you pursuing the
sensory input, is it a crutch to deal with negativeness, is it an appeasement method for
not having a sexual relationship, are you pursuing the feeling of pleasure itself, or what?
Did you ever ask yourself this question?

moonkraken • 6 yr. ago

Don't be too attached to the idea of "It's bad!!!!!". It's just an idea. Remember that it's
not intrinsically bad, but is bad as a part of your routine. That way you can come to see
it as itself. Not something devilish.

We choose the middle way here. Neither we run towards nor do we run away.

Another point: Thoughts and feelings too, have no existence of their own. So, if you're
having some thought, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're committed to that
thought, until you really start considering it.

So just let them come and go. That's what peace is. You should not get affected by
these thoughts.

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago • Edited 6 yr. ago

I used to masturbate pretty frequently, and for quite a while (before and during the time I
started doing Buddhism) it was a problem for me. I'd go a few days without
masturbating but still find myself enormously pressured to start again.

While I do still masturbate sometimes, my real success lies in having made it a non-
issue. If I don't want to masturbate, I don't. If I do, I do. Both the pressing drive to do it
and the cluster of shame and guilt around it have gone away. How did I do it?

What you have to realise is that the whole habit runs deep. It's not just something that
happens before, during, and right after you masturbate, but something that infuses the
way you deal with what goes through your mind, the way you look at the world, and the
way you think about yourself.

To begin with, know that this is something you've learned and trained yourself to do
over time, and what it will take is that you unlearn and untrain your bad habits. I'm
talking maybe a hundred or more hours of effort applied over multiple months. The good
news is that this is a great way to start getting to know your mind, because it will be a
load off you when you solve the problem, and it will increase your confidence in your
ability to act more skillfully. In addition, it's a big and obvious problem, one which is
relatively easy to observe in action.

It will be necessary to get to know the behavior of your mind around this issue better.
For one, you need to start looking very closely at what immediately precedes and
:
 triggers the urge to masturbate. It's not something that happens out there, it's
something that happens in your mind. You might think it's that an attractive person has
entered your visual field, but what happens is that such a sight becomes visible, then
you focus in on it and construct a whole narrative of you as a certain person who desires
in a certain way around it.

Not only that, but it's like your mind copies what you see and keeps showing it to you
long after the sight has left again. You hold subliminal values around pleasure, namely
that: It's normal to look for pleasure in sexual sights, it's fine, it's something you should
do right away when you have the opportunity. Your mind thinks this is how it's done,
which is why it goes and grabs hold of sexual sights and thoughts right away, even
thought this isn't what's best. The trick is in seeing these conditioned values as they
cause your attention to move around.

If you look closely, you'll notice that very quickly, too fast to notice if you don't know to
look for it (this is easiest during meditation), an image flashes in your mind, but it's a
special image that brings desire with it and which your mind clings to. It's something
that originates in your mind in response to a disturbance of some kind (usually a sight,
but for a lot of people, the urge to masturbate is also a protective reaction that's meant
to create a distraction from painful emotions), because you've trained yourself to
generate and feed off of these pretty images. Immediately following the arising of the
image comes a whole story of you as someone who wants certain things and behaves in
certain ways. Because you've been masturbating for so long, a whole routine of
programmed behavior will set in, culminating in you actually masturbating. What you
want is to see all of this happening right at that first disturbance which brings about the
behavior in your mind that leads to masturbation.

This is the single biggest root of it all - your mind's deliberate response to disturbance
by creating a huge mental construct of desireable objects and the self that desires. The
first success you can enjoy in your undertaking is seeing this movement in the mind, as
it is happening, for the first time. And when you see the movement, note it as having
happened, and then just return to your meditation object without doing the rest of the
behavior as you used to. This activity right here is what deconditions the whole
problem.

This is the most subtle level at which all this happens. To undo this, you need to change
the way you do everything. You need to change all your values around sex. Listen here:
It's not normal to think about sex often. It's not normal to think of sexual thoughts as
legitimate places to spend time and seek pleasure.

Here are some good rules to keep in mind: When walking down the street (or otherwise
spending time among people), be aware of where your eye goes and why. A good trick is
to never look at people on the street directly, but just note their general form out of the
corner of your eye, and most importantly watch what your mind wants to do in response
to the forms. Be alert, always. Meditation isn't something that happens on the cushion
and stays there; you need to always be on the ball.
:
 When you don't even let the eye go looking for painful messes to get constricted in,
solving this problem will be much easier. This is what the Buddha means when he says
you need to "dwell in restraint of the senses".

You should listen to and read the Dharma every day, because if you don't relish and
Use App
enjoy the true Dharma as it is taught, your defilements will win out in short time. I
recommend Thanissaro Bhikkhu, who is the most important teacher I've ever had in my
life and all of whose content is available for free online, including hundreds of Dharma
talks to teach you all this.

Finally, examine your idea of who you are. You've surely heard "not-self" before, and
what it really means is that everything you choose to identify yourself by is necessarily a
limitation. This means you should drop your notion of you being your hormonal body,
you should drop your (deeply embedded) notions of being a certain somebody (a
heterosexual male, I assume) who likes certain things. We identify by what we consume,
but what we consume is unbearably unsatisfying.

Also consider that we like feeling guilt and shame - that's why we oscillate between
sensual indulgence, which is something we consider normal and whose healthiness we
don't question, and then attachment to the idea of ourselves as gross and wrong and
worthless. It's a type of conceit to build ideas of your worth around sexuality, and it's
something you can let go of.

All of these lessons are learned over a lot of time, with a lot of patience, and with a lot of
effort and enthusiasm for practice. Without the sustenance of proper practice, you
won't be able to fix this where it matters.

[deleted] OP • 6 yr. ago

Thank you

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

Lust is promoted in many places, especially the west. Even if you avoid pornography,
you'll still see some of its derivatives on television or advertisements. So chances are
you'll be confronted by these thoughts for some time. Accept this. Our conditioned mind
wants us to actively destroy our obsessions, and when we can't immediately destroy
them we get frustrated.

In my case, the more I practice, meditate, and generally progress on the right path, the
more often these fetters leave me. Personally, when I have imaginations of lust, I will
actively imagine the human body in its components, quite literally: I imagine a jar full of
blood and bile, a pile of bones, the epidermis bunched up on the floor. This is what the
body truly is- the body is just an assembly of its components. My lust for it is my own
creation.
:
 1

holleringstand • 6 yr. ago

Believe it or not, this is part of Darwinian fitness. If you think you're on a bad, rocky
road, women are even more plagued. They have a powerful drive to bear and nurture a
child and need your help. Most every woman will eventually have a child, but guys will
not all become fathers. Nature is in favor of the woman's biological needs. She is a
primary attractor. Once she has you in her sights, she will possess you. She wears
lipstick, does her eyebrows, etc. — nature even made her voice special and attractive.
We guys are on the losing side as far as attractiveness. We are prey. So study their
attractiveness—it's all superficial. Great news, when you get my age, you naturally
become immune to a woman's attractiveness. Your pal downstairs is not even
interested. More interesting is the Buddha's teaching. When you die, your spiritual body
will be the same as you are now, but without the density. So study the Dharma. Become
a wise man. Work at it.

kramyugtaht • 6 yr. ago

Just to chime in here, and to maybe frame it in a positive way for the OP or anyone
else who may have such concerns - what about what you DO want? In connection
with your comment above there have been times where I find a womans spirituality
attractive, that could be anywhere between a female dharma teacher or just someone
telling the truth as it is, just that single quality goes a long way. With the former it
hasn't always been age appropriate and well, it's pretty far fetched but this isn't
about identifying potential partners, it's to identify that spiritual instinct if you will.

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

:
 I'd like to humbly play the devil's advocate.

It has been mentioned that Dattatreya was the teacher of the sage Patanjali. Be
that as it may: The main work attributed to Dattatreya is the Avhadhuta
Upanishad. It describes the wherabouts of a free (liberated) soul, one who is
much uninterested in the dogmas of others, or habits, rituals, and surface
morality too at times.
According to Dattatreya, the free man need not have any particular appearance,
lifestyle, religion or social role. He (or she) may walk about naked or be dressed
up as a prince. He may appear pious or blasphemous, ascetic or hedonistic. The
important thing is that. Also, a liberated soul will not wilfully harm or destroy
others, it is pointed out, even if there occasionally are good sides to breaking
rigid taboos before they do us harm.
Dattatreya is often pictured naked, sitting in embrace with a lovely female, eating
hog's flesh, drinking wine . . . He is further described as Madman and Child and
so on.

-- http://oaks.nvg.org/avadhut-gita.html

[deleted] • 6 yr. ago

sounds like a well-prepared propaganda. don't buy it. happy masturbating.

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