Introduction

I think people are logging in from the global network uh we're all here so good
afternoon to you maybe some good mornings and good evenings to those joining around the
network um so I'm Ted Snider and uh really delighted today to
have Indra NOOyie join us for what I hope will be the first in a
robust we're getting feedback uh series of conversations
about how to manage stakeholders and the format today is uh we'll have a
conversation with Indra people in the class will ask some questions and then we'll open it up
to questions
uh from the network um by way of background uh you
know a lot of schools have started progr programs on on stakeholder issues uh Yom
is one of them uh I am co- faulty director along with Ravi Dar who's not
here and John aada who is here uh it's the Yale program on stakeholder
management excuse me stakeholder Innovation and management and uh John
and I are co- teing this this class 840 and our guest is contributing to this
class and then we're amplifying it through the network so with that sort of
preface i' I'd like to turn it over to Yousef Shaquille who's going to introduce our special
guest thank you um
so it's my pleasure to introduce Indra n to you all

Indra is a:
- global business leader
- former CEO of PepsiCo
- widely recognized for her strategic Vision, Innovative leadership, and commitment to
social responsibility
- graduated from Madras Christian college and the Indian Institute of Management
Kolkata for receiving her master's
degree in public public and private management from Yale University after yo
- Indra worked at BCG monola and ABV before
joining Pico in 1984 becoming CEO of the company in 2006
- Indra was the first woman and first indian born person to lead PepsiCo under
indra's leadership PepsiCo became a global leader in
sustainable food and beverage having established the mission of performance with
purpose she helped reduce pepsico's
environmental impact expanded its healthy food and beverage portfolio and invested in
global communities
- Served on the Yale University Board of Trustees from 2002 2014 and currently serves
as the chair of the audit Committee of the board of directors for Amazon supervisory
board member at Phillips and executive Comm Committee Member at MIT
- Andrea Rockstar she's the recipient of 15 honorary degrees and in 2007 received the
Padma buan from the government of
India the country's thirdd highest civilian honor she was also named an outstanding American
by choice by the US
state department and in 2021 was inducted into the US national women Hall of Fame join me
in welcoming and D Bo
class all right

here's a quote from our

guest when I became CEO in 2006 I did a series of town hall meetings with
employees few said they came to work for a paycheck Most Wanted to build a life
not simply a livelihood and they were well aware that consumers cared about
health and wellness we realized we needed to engage our people's heads
Hearts and Hands we had to produce more products that are good for you we had to
embrace sustainability purpose is not giving money away for social responsibility
it's fundamentally changing how to make money in order to deliver
performance to help ensure that Pepsi Company is a good company where young
people want to work so Indra sound isn't it it's it's
terrific um so would you explain what I think is

Shareholder Value
the most striking thing about that quote which is it's about how you make
money yeah so um let me talk a little bit about how we think about shareholder
value and where there are flaws in that whole model you know when we learn DCFS
have all of you learned discounted cash flow everybody here when you learn DCF there are
three things that drive a
value that comes out of DCF short-term cash flows long-term cash flows and
terminal value right that's the three things that drive the DCF yet when people manage the
company they manage it
for the short-term cash flow everybody looks at I want to be CEO for 5 years
for 5 years I'm going to press spell to the metal deliver as much cash as I can
and then when the next guy comes we can crash the financials and say the previous guy was
an idiot take a big
charge and then write the alpha again this is a standard operating procedure
for every CEO and in fact books have been written that when you become a CEO
the first thing you should do is to take a big charge and say the guy before you was a bit of an
idiot and uh and then by
the alpha as they would say and when I became CEO everybody was waiting for me to take a
big charge realizing or not
realizing that I was president and CFO before I became CEO if I was going to
say everything that the previous guy did was stupid I'm talking about myself because I was
directing strategy for the
company I was in charge of financials and I was working closely with the CEO and I did not
subscribe to this crash
the financials and write the alpha in fact if you looked at shareholder value the the real way
you should look at
shareholder value is going through these bumps in the road constantly predictable bumps that
really isn't shareholder
value you're really destroying a lot of value in the process how the market evaluates that's a
different issue Ted
we can have a different conversation so when I took over PepsiCo I said to myself I want to
make sure this company
is successful over the long term how does one judiciously balanced level and
duration of returns I want to make sure deliver great returns for a long period of time time I
don't want to crash the
performance for the sake of crashing the performance so a good level of returns which
ensures reinvestment in the
company to make it remain successful for a long time so balancing level and duration of
returns so the only way to do it is by thinking about what kind of a company
you want to create and the way you think about that is not just by saying this is
my dream that's what I want to do we did two things one looked at what Ted just talked about
talk to people inside the
company about why they come to work for PepsiCo how do we keep them in the company
how do we Bond them to the
company to a point where they want to make a livelihood and a living in inside the company
as opposed to using it as a
step in a career Journey that was important to us because PepsiCo is full of long-term
employees and the second
thing we wanted to do is to make sure that we think of this company future back we wanted
to reinvent the company
for the future as opposed to think in quarter or six-month increments which is
what gets company companies into trouble and when we started thinking future back it was
clear that we were not prepared
for the future the future was about health and wellness the future was about people genuinely
worrying about the
amount of plastics that we generated that was lying on in landfills or on roadsides it was
about how much water we
used in our plants we had factories in water distressed areas that were using 2
and 1/2 lers of water to make make a liter of Pepsi which just is unconscionable cuz I grew
up in such a
water distressed area where there was no water to eat or drink and yet there were plants in the
outskirts that would go
deep into the aquifers and take Waters because they had high pressure pumps and finally
people we had to find a way to
keep people interested in PepsiCo because those days working in a startup environment or
working in invest banking
Consulting was a lot more sexy than working for a traditional consumer Products Company
so putting all that
together we came back and said yes we have focused on shareholder value that's what we
exist for we had to create
shareholder value but what if we were to reinvest in the company appropriately so that we
can keep this company successful
for decades into the future so how do we reinvest to change the product portfolio
how do we invest to think about new technologies to become environmentally better and
what kinds of support
structures do we need to provide our employees so they can actually contribute their
maximum to the company
that's really what we focused on so

we started with the shareholder value lens and we started to play with the product
portfolio to reduce fat sugar and salt in the PepsiCo products and dial up the
better for you good for your products we started to think about ways to reduce water usage in
the plants you might
think it's easy to reduce from 2.4 to 1.5 or something oh no no you need to
change the technology in all the plants especially when you have glass when the glass bottles
come back if to rinse them
they use a lot of water what kind of Technology do you use for rinsing what do you do with
the waste water how do
you recycle the waste water there's a lot of Technology involved how do you reduce the
plastic in these bottles uh
you know it's easy to do it in a water bottle but for soda is very difficult how do you reduce
the water how do you set up a recycling system to collect
plastic and incorporate recycled plastic into a bottle it had never been done before so we had
to think about
technological solutions for all that Tech technology doesn't come free so we have to invest in
technology to get the
solutions and start to deliver uh a different sort of a company and different sort of
outcomes you know the outputs were the products but we needed different outcomes and the
reason that was
important is that was a way

to ensure long-term shareholder value creation longterm it reduced costs for the
company and more importantly long term we continue to get a license from society cuz had
we not done those things
things in many cities around the world plants are being shut down of us or our
competition governments would say why do I need your products in my country I don't need
you and if you do come here
we're going to impose a huge tax on you so we had to explain to them

why PepsiCo
was a company that was going to create jobs for people for Farmers provide
great living and livelihoods for people at the same time we were going to be the good
company good ethically where we
would actually contribute to the comp country as opposed to being you know a burden on the
company and so to me what

we were doing on purpose was completely linked to shareholder value it was not
separate and we didn't really talk about
stakeholder versus shareholder management we just talked about long-term success of
PepsiCo and how do we ensure that we reinvest in this company appropriately to make sure
this company stays
successful for the long term that was a singular focus and the word ESG didn't even exist in
the vocabulary at that
time which was the best thing that happened cuz we never talked ESG we had a course set of
metrics we just managed
the company against that and that was what performance with purpose was all

Engagement
about so who did you engage first and
how um you know I started a walking tour where I just visited you know factories
employees um homes I mean I went around the world but the biggest piece of work
was multiple teams and the company set up manufacturing R&D Marketing sales
strategy people Finance people each of them was given the independent mandate to identify
the mega trends of going to
impact corporations you know consumer companies food and beverage companies and
therefore PepsiCo sort of create that funnel of meat Trends and Whittle it
down to 10 Mega trends that we should worry about so each of these teams came back with
their Mega Trends which was
interesting because 60 to 70% of the trends were the same so when we started to Coal all the
mega Trends and then as
a group picked the 10 that we thought were the most important that we needed to align the
company around now we had
this document to work from and from that document came what changes do we need to make
do we need to make what
capabilities do we need to build where do we need to invest what acquisition decisions do we
need to make it was a
big blueprint once we had that T I took it to the board cuz I needed the board
on board because they're my bosses and if they didn't subscribe to what we were going to
do then I'm I'm you know out of a job which is okay but I took it to the board

I sat with each board member for about 4 hours in their homes or their offices I went to them
and they gave me all the
time one by one one by one and then we came back together and talked about it and the
BOARD said this is the only way
you should run the company and we're going to make your annual incentive you as a CEO
your incentive compensation
based on these metrics so all the metrics that had laid out for the company they said we're
picking a group of them and it's going to be your metrics against which you're going to be
judged and through my entire
12 years if I deviated from this even a little bit they would say tell me again how this links to
Performance and
purpose and so the board was fantastic and holding me accountable and when we
had an activist investor who was trying to propose all kinds of directions for the company uh
and when to the board the
board said we believe in the strategy we believe in the CEO we will not make a single change
and the activist

Stakeholders
left wow so true or
false the the near-term stakeholders are most
important when a CEO comes in meaning it's the employees and the
customers with whom they have implicit contractual relationships
and others like partners and suppliers is that the right do you agree
with that that's what CEO should first focus on in managing this process you mean for
making the change I
was making just a CEO a new CEO what well whatever change he or she's going to try to
make in your
case do you know Ted what was interesting my customers were my retailers than the
consumers of the
product remember we had step in the chain all the retail customers were already there they
had created health
and wellness sections in the store we were not present there uh and the fastest growing
products in most of the
retail chains were the products that were supposedly health and you know healthy products
they were not really
healthy because somebody would take a bag of chips put it in a white bag with
a carrot on top and call it a healthy chip but if you read the ingredients they were not that
healthy there was a
perception of health so I think surprisingly what surprised us was
retailers were way ahead of us and consumers were voting with their uh
money because they were buying those products at 2x 3x the price that our products were
charging so the consumer
was already there one of the biggest issues in iri neelon those kinds of data panels that existed
then they don't
track Niche products until they reach a certain size so when we started to buy something
called spins data which
captures Niche products all of a sudden we find that those guys have taken a lot of the growth
in the category and we had
actually lost share if you redefine the category to include them you see you can
always Define the category to be what you want it to be to make it look like you're gaining
share or holding share
which is a standard trick people do here's here's here's what I'm I'm trying to get
at in part because John has interviewed 140 CEOs and we're tracking
what CEOs are doing now and some of them are very reactive to all kinds of
stakeholders and the the the question maybe has a subtext which is
maybe CEOs should focus on how to make the business work better
the how part which means a narrower set of stakeholders rather than a broader
set so that has a normative component to it but it also has a management
component to I think the key word and what you're talking about three key
words how to make the company function better um are you talking about how can
you deliver maximum eps shortest possible time or how do you build a
ongoing company that could be successful over time very different outcomes and I want to be
very clear Ted

most investors
who write about you and criticize you have never run a company most activist investors have
never run a
company most people who criticize you have never been inside a company and
they opine on how you should run a company Consultants who write about you have never
worked to
company and there they are criticizing you for running the company a certain way you know
that is dead wrong you tell
me how many investment analysts you know or investors you know have been inside the
company how do they know trade-offs
are how trade-offs are being made you know they say well cut 10,000 employees cut your
R&D projects R&D projects once
you invest in them if you cut them you can't restart them you lose those people
you've lost all that research data that you've gotten so if you commit to an R&D project
you've got to see it through
that's why the choice of the project is very difficult so I start off by saying the first question
you have to answer
yourself is it deliver the maximum EPS for the shortest possible time and then
resign and say I'm done as being CEO or do you say to yourself my responsibility
is to make sure that this company does well year after year after year which is
the back to front back to front con conly every CEO should look at back to front in fact if you
look at every
corporate failure every corporate failure is because they did one of two things they didn't look
you know front
back or they pushed the PED of the metal so much that when they ran out of gas
from their business they did all kinds of accounting gimmicks and fraudulent things to deliver
EPs and when that game
was found out the company collapsed and I think we have too many examples of that today
or through recent
history and I think it's time we talked about enduring companies that you know
are not duds but enduring companies that constantly reinvent themselves and remain
successful because you know for
an investor who's investing a pension plan money they would like to see companies that give
you sort of a a bond
likee return with an equity kicker okay cuz every time you can't have companies that are
generating 30
40% return all the time that's a portion of your portfolio there's got to be a steady portion of
the portfolio and
large companies provide that level of stability to a pensioner and I think we
forget this in a position in a portfolio so I think you've probably
Purpose
convinced many I'm going to put myself in this category that you were able to
pursue a strategy that increased margins
increased improved financial performance not in a particular quarter but over the
the span of your tenure yeah the question I have Andra did you ever decide to go
beyond profit maximization for the purpose of
generating greater social
goods in a way yes and no and I'll tell you where I mean yes where is no um I
could have taken the experience strategy to say okay I made some small changes to
the product portfolio now let me just write it out for the next 5 years lots
of eps I'll be a hero then I'll retire somebody else can pick up after
me I didn't want that I just didn't want couple of three years of investment then
reap it and leave I actually wanted to have a company that was not in the bullseye of every
critic
you know at that time think of the environment I mean companies like ours were being
constantly criticized our
products taxed our plants are being shut down in countries that's not a company
that young people want to come to work for I wanted people to want to love to come to work
for PepsiCo young people in
particular because they're a future and the only way to do it is to say this is a growing
company it's a responsible
company it's a company you'll be proud to say you work for when you talk to your friends
and family and a lot of
employees were struggling with that so in order to do that I don't know if that's social good or
not to me to me
it's reputation of the company and long-term success of the company and that's why I thought
we had to keep
investing what I did not um stop is the PepsiCo Foundation
investing in programs I didn't stop that M and I never got involved in that part of the
company much at all but I thought
that everything we did within performance with purpose has got to be actions we took which
in turn drove
shareholder return and then the shareholder return that we got some of it got invested in
purpose to keep the
company successful that virtuous circle is what I was focused on all the
time Crystal Clear Yeah you mentioned the the engagement with the
Profitability
individual members of your board and one of the things that we've thought about in the class
to date is companies may
get a there may be a shock um there may be problems with the
company cyclical changes competition from Rivals
Innovation by others and profits come down
MH was there sort of an effective minimum on on your profit level below
which the board was really going to get upset I mean we would never hit that
number because we were one of the highest performing companies in the in the uh our food
and beverage universe
and the last thing I want to do is to move out of that very narrow bandwidth
okay so there was a bandwidth that we imposed on ourselves and we operated within that
bandwidth but the thing to
be very careful about is I look at my 12year tenure I see CEO was two sixe ten
years that's the way I look at it because the first 6 years we had the financial crisis which
destroyed the
economies of the world over two years um we had very minimal International
Footprints way to create that International footprint and we had a mess with our bottlers in
North America
so that had to be solved so the first six years were were heavy lifting to resolve all of these
issues the next six
years was reaping all the benefits of the invest in the first six years the R&D investment the
botler buyback
International footprint being expanded all of that started to pay dividends the next six years
and so even in the first
six years in the worst of the financial crisis we still operated the company within a very
narrow profit band because
for the sake of the company for the sake of uh our investors I mean you can talk
about how your margins are going to get eroded because of the environment but but from our
own case we believed that
that was the birthright of our company to generate profits in that narrow band so we still
delivered good returns but I
would say the first six years of Investments paid off the next six years the most telling thing
was I went to see
one of our largest investors and um you know our stock was held in about six or seven funds
in that
investor company and there's always an analyst that analyzes your company for
each of the fund holders somebody who's never worked in a company definitely yes
he had written a report about PepsiCo and me for all his fund you know
stockholders of PepsiCo unfortunately he left a copy for me when I read it my jaw
dropped it basically said this is the lousiest CEO investing in the future I
mean I read that report and I I I was devastated but you know I had to put on
a face and all the guys walked in and they sat down and the first question the senior most guy
who holds the most
amount of PepsiCo stock says to me SRE doing a b c and d what else would you do
if you were a private company I said nothing else I would do exactly what I'm doing because
I'm
running a company for these reasons he looks at me and says don't change one
goddamn thing keep doing what you're doing that's why we hold your stock it
was a short meeting they all left and that analyst was reassigned the
next and I'm saying to you Ted if you had read that report on me it was just
awful somebody who had never ever spent more than 2 hours in a company maybe
never even a company writing a report of that kind but that's what all CEOs face today and
that's a tragedy a travesty
whatever TR word exists is a disaster it's not
Metrics
fair so I want to loop back you you mentioned metrics
yep um were there any off-the-shelf metrics that you could use to measure
how you were doing or were were you in the position where you had to think about what
would make sense for Pepsi
and the transformation you were powering the financial metrics or the financial metrics you
know we all use them but
terms of portfolio transformation for example um you know our portfolio we had to group it
into the different kinds of
products we were going to be selling and we had to give the board a baseline of
the fat sugar and salt in our products and how much you going to reduce it by but it had to be
done by the scientists
so I hired a new R&D head who came from Pharma but the guy was like
Incorruptible he could not tell him to change the metrics or something and said this is how we
did it in Pharma this is
how we're going to do it here this is the Baseline per serving and we're going to reduce it by
25% in 5 years but it's
not going to be on the fifth year we're going to reduce 25% it's going to be what changes
we're going to show year by
year so we had metrics on fat sugar and salt reduction advertising that we're
going to spend on better for you good for you products so it was very sensible portfolio
transformation but specific to
very specific to the product to the environment how much water reduction how much Plastics
reduction how much uh
carbon footprint reduction everything the carbon trust in the UK would come in and do their
audit and in terms of
people retention promotion all that stuff was very care but there were about
11 uh standard metrics which we tracked now we expanded to the industry because
I talked about this at an industry meeting and other CEOs joined up and we
created the healthy weight commitment Foundation to reduce calories from the US diet in
partnership with retailers we
committed to taking out 1.5 trillion calories from the US diet in 5 years we
took out 4.5 trillion calories from the US diet in 4
years because the food had too much sugar when we could have taken out 25% of sugar you
wouldn't even know the
difference Salt Fat I mean it was unbelievable how the industry came
together and we did this healthy weight commitment Foundation took out those calories and
we didn't measure ourselves
the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation which was our biggest critic hired lawyers we
would provide all our data and they calculated how much progress we had made
in fact there was a professor that went I think from Yale to North Carolina who went from the
uh one of the centers here
he was another massive critic of ours he and this lawyer for the Robert with Johnson
Foundation calculated the data
and they struggled and they recalculated and they recalculated it because they could not
believe the progress the
industry had made so you know it's one of those things where it was a societal
good to reduce fat sugar and salt at a point when obesity levels were very very high and I
mean look at this the US
armed services cannot recruit enough people because they're not enough fit young people
who meet the health numbers
our eating and drinking habits are not particularly good so we can't keep educating people
alone companies also
have to do their bit so we did our bit and uh we made all those changes had the
standard metrics that we focused on the board held us accountable industry
developed similar set of metrics for the industry and together we moved this needle
forward so when you started as uh CEO in
2006 did you look around at what other companies were doing and did you find
relevant benchmarks or examples that informed how
you wanted to proceed or was this pretty unique and
um the product of your own thinking a little bit of both I'm not
sure I looked at other companies all that I wanted was to make sure that I had a plan that kept
this company
success for a long time okay and my predecessor had run the company
brilliantly and delivered great performance and I could have kept doing
what he was doing which is sort of uh screw this thing Tighter and Tighter but I felt we had
reached sort of a limit on
that uh productivity remind me who was your Ste R he was brilliant okay yeah he
became a business school dean did you know oh absolutely wake for us I mean I still speak to
him almost every other
week UVA GR I think yeah yeah UV gr great guy Marine you know just a great guy but you
know I could have kept doing
what he was doing but I didn't think I had enough Runway to keep doing that okay so I could
see that remember I was
right next to him and and did you see the right away or early on that the
performance with purpose was going to increase profitability which is actually of course what
happened well but I also
knew that it was going to be painful to make that transition because it the pie doesn't increase
right away you've got
to invest first it's like you've got to take a little dip to come back up and I knew during the dip
was going to be all
the criticism okay but nobody was going to L you when the could you put a time
frame on that if the financial crisis had not happened and if my bottling system wasn't so
disruptive uh we could have done all this about 4 years earlier okay we had a
bottling system who basically said you want us to sell healthier products pay me for it
come on just it's another product just put it on the Shelf no pays for it so they control the
distribution so when
your distribution system holds you hostage at some point you've got to say enough is enough
I'm buying it back so
we bought it back and all of a sudden we could control the distribution system and things got
easier after
Increase Margins
that to what extent Andra do you think your approach yeah performance with
purpose change how the company operates increase
margins think where you want to get to and work back from that engage what I call the the
nearly
or close uh stakeholders to what extent do you think that approach can be used
by other companies see I wouldn't start by saying increased margins is the goal because I
think that's an outcome okay that's an outcome um and so you know you start by saying how
do you drive the Topline
growth to us our Focus was how do you drive Topline growth because if you don't drive
growth growth is oxygen if
you don't drive growth and remain ahead of competition you become a utility very quickly
because you start to decline and
so to us Wayne Callaway who was the second CE of the company taught all of us that growth
is oxygen so that was a
mantra and PepsiCo so driving the Top Line growth building the pie so to speak
is that gaining share and you know redefining the market constantly so that you are gaining
share to the right pie
not defining the market down to show that you're gaining share but of a larger and larger pie
was a big goal of
ours and if you grow the top line and you manage your costs margins will
expand okay so we didn't start by saying how do we go from margin of 12 to 15 how do we
grow the top line and show steady
Improvement in margin okay so back to my question do you think your approach is
something that other companies have followed and replicated or is it more
difficult for other companies to do what you did because you were in a situation
where you had a clear set of things that you wanted to accomplish you could engage the
employees the the
retailers you could get customers excited about a new direction are are
those things sort of unique I don't don't know Ted I really don't know we don't know either
yeah I that out I
often think back and say if I was running Kodak in the Heyday or digital
equipment or Polaroid or could I have thought future back and said how should
I reinvent the company and why didn't they do it I often look at a lot of the companies that
were great great
companies great names in our American industry and ask myself the question why
did they go under why did they get bought up and is destroyed they shouldn't have uh but I
think it's
because you're so focused on short-term performance that you forget that the
industry is going through a transformation itself you better start redefining your Marketplace
you better
start redefining your Marketplace the problem is people start to Define your Marketplace
smaller and smaller and
smaller the example I give you is salty snacks okay it's very easy to Define
your Market in free delay as chips but if you really step back from
it chips versus salty crackers are all in the same place okay uh like a cheit
or sometimes even nuts are all in the same salty snacking space in fact it's a
bigger snacking space called sweet snacking also which includes chocolate which includes
candy all that stuff it's
all part of that snacking space if we calculate our share as part of snacking in and how we
increase share in that pie
you think very differently about the business and if you said I'm in the chips business very
different because you have
such a huge share you can Define it any way you want this is the problem the tyranny of uh
people wanting to show
success all the time as opposed to deciding which Marketplace you're playing in it sounds
DCF Model
like yeah I'm going back to your comments about the DCF model there's nothing wrong with
the DCF model it's a
great model if you focus on all three if you focus on all three and it seems like what you're
saying is in in many
situations there's what the Finance and Accounting people might call an agency problem y
the the seite executives are
playing their own game for their own purposes for the time Horizon that they
like the best is that am I putting words in your mouth maybe or they feel that investors will
sort of kick them out or
board might kick them out see you need an enlightened board to do what I did yes if the
board is not very often
boards are stacked by some CEO with family and friends in our case we shape
the board for the needs of the company okay if you shape the board for the needs of the
company then the board is
your ally as opposed to somebody who just focus on giving the CEO bigger and
bigger compensation package without my board I couldn't have done it so I give them a lot of
the credit I'm going to
Role of Design Thinking
ask one more question and then we'll open it up but one thing that um we're
trying to figure out is the role of design thinking and you've written about that and
commented about that you're
involved with other companies what what's your opinion about
the usefulness of design thinking in situations where
companies actually face a lot of different stakeholder pressures and and
and and want to figure out a way to address them mean it's everything any
any so-called stakeholder pressure can always have a design solution so I'll give you an
example
um let me um let me take um this is an idea we I
toyed with for a while and then we ran out of raw material um you know when we think
about
Tropicana juice okay originally went out in that Gable toop cardboard container
okay over time it went into this plastic container that's got these U uh waves on
top my problem is design wise external design wise it looks very pretty but
from a stakeholder perspective it's awful because it's too much plastic very
hard to recycle it and it gets blown in a separate Factory and then comes in
refrigerated trucks because it has to maintain its Integrity it comes in refers to the Tropicana
plant to fill
juice in complete in every aspect of societal impact the footprint is
terrible so you sit back and go if you really apply design thinking to Tropicana what you
really want to do is
take your own container to the store and fill it fresh with Tropicana juice that's what the
designers would say if
we can find a way to send to the store a big T of fresh Tropic because Tropicana
juice is only fresh F send it there you should be able to go in into this
beautiful container which is reusable fill it up would be great for society
okay we couldn't do it because the industry ran out of orange juice the crop failed okay crops
failed now you
know when I started in the orange juice industry many many many decades ago the US used
to produce 230 million boxes
this last crop is 30 million boxes so the US has lost 200 million boxes of oranges due to
development and Greening
of the crop so the I'm just talking about design thinking how it can the other design thinking I
tell you um this
is a micro example Sun Chips how many of you have tasted Sun Chips you had it right it's a
whole grain snack and when I went to Fredo for a design for a product review
they showed me Sun Chips and said you know it index is a little bit more on women than
men um because it's a healthy
snack and made with solar panels in a factory that's in Modesta California in
a bag that's compostable all the elements of sustainability that's why
it's called Sun Chips there were several issues with that from a design perspective if it is
something that skewes a little bit more for women why is the product 2 in by 2 in big
why is a square 2 in by 2 in big nobody wants to eat the chip and have it fall all over you
yeah that's when you have
the Doritos and Cheetos but this had 2 in by 2 in th our manufacturing people
said our moles are 2 in x 2 in so that's how we made the product the design people came and
said stop the design on
the product if it's for this consumer group should be Max 3/4 of an in by 3/4
of an inch easily put in the mouth okay then second
thing uh the package was very noisy sustainable but very noisy retailers
wouldn't stock it because the product was very noisy on the Shelf so the designers come in
and say
how do you eliminate the noise but you should this why I said you work inside a company
you all of a sudden realize all
the challenges we go through it's incredible and so when you get a real good design team
that's not just worried
about the colors but goes all the way to product design package design and how it
should be carried around changes the whole ball game you know I'll give you one Ted when
you carry if you have a
purse snack most people 2 hours after lunch are hungry you're all students but if you're
working exactly 2 hours after lunch you need a snack that's just a given um men would go
buy a bag of
Doritos or Cheetos eat it lick their finger pour it into their mouth it's okay women are looking
for a healthier
snack okay if you carry Doritos your Cheetos in your handbag is going to crush because we
all carry our homes in
our handbags okay it'll crush and if it opens out everything in the handbag is
destroyed and as our ethnographic work said women don't like loud crunching in
the office mhm okay that's what the research shows not my point of view all right so why
can't we give them a snack
that's in a package which won't break that can go into the purse that you can take out it's
stacked neatly so you can
eat it and it's healthier than anything else now our our designers would design
this thing looking at structure of women's purses how do they carry it what
else do they have in their purse they would go all the way there and design a product for
incrementality as opposed to existence on the Shelf because at the end of the day in has to be
incremental they will
design it for that so that's why design thinking is way more important than
people think it is all right so uh as I said we'll open
Questions
it up to questions John maybe you can call on folks and and then in terms
of the uh the people on the zoom um I
think Matt put it in the chat but uh please please type in your question your
name the school and then we'll sort through as many as we can and we'll call
on you uh but let's start in the class so John I'll turn it over to you all right let's
start I'm
sorry my name is Adam thank you so much for coming I think when people listen to
your story uh they've see remarkable success but what's a little bit more difficult to see is the
work that
happened behind the scenes um you talked a little bit about that today you mentioned seeing
the future and thinking
backwards you talked about the mega Trend and then also from my own personal uh interest I
I know that earlier uh in
your tenure you spoke before his passing to Steve doobs and learn a little bit more about the
CEO's uh role and so what
I'm wondering is um for those of us in the room and also on Zoom who have a desire to be a
CEO in the future what is
the single best thing you think we can do to prepare don't think about being a CEO that's the
best way you can prepare what happens is when you tell yourself I want to be CEO you're
getting every everybody's
advice and and you start to track a career plan for yourself and if anything
goes wrong you think you're not going to be CEO don't focus on being CEO just focus on
doing what you're doing
extraordinar well and look at people a couple of levels above you and see how they're
doing the job and just keep doing your job better and better and better you will become CEO
but the day you draw a
plan for yourself which says this is the sequence of things I'm going to do to become CEO it's
over that day it's over
I hate to burst your bubble on this don't give up your hopes but don't draw yourself a career
plan life has a funny
way to take twists and turns which are all good I mean when I was at
BCG um I love BCG I was in a car crash I didn't think I was going to be in a car crash so all
of a sudden my life takes a
Twist you know in every point there were twists and turns and I went with the
flow never once said I want to be CEO never one not even one not even the day
not even an hour before I was told I was going to be CEO that I think I was going to be see
so right you I appreciated the reference to
Role of suppliers
the Steven dner interview you gave a few years years ago um with the Cheetos on
the but uh so how would you think of those calorie and sugar reduction roles in the
era of gp1 Inhibitors like w GOI noic where those goals are being achieved via
the demand side what then becomes the role of the suppliers and especially in context to your
comments around growth
um do you feel it's almost like a a Kodak moment for the supplier side look
the it's interesting question you're raising um if everything can be cured with medicines then
you don't need to
eat food anymore because we can give you satiety with a pill all right there's a great song you
guys are too young to
know this in the 60s or' 70s there was a pair called zagger and Evans that wrote
a song called In the Year 2525 I would urge you to Google it and
look at the lyrics because a lot of what zag and Evans wrote is going to happen in 2525 is
almost becoming a reality in
20 30 maybe and one of the things they say is you don't need to eat everything you need to
eat and drink is in a pill
you took today in a way oen and Bei are saying that eat whatever you want will
make you look slim and trim Instagram ready with those IG that's really the
promise that's being told now it all has long-term consequences I think food and
beverage companies consumer companies have a role to play medication has a role to play
when your genes are
impacted and your genetic makeup forces you into more of an obese U or
overweight body type but let's not try to cure basic habits with medicines
because if that continues everything you live and eat is going to be in a pill let's not go there
too soon we might get
there J I don't know it'll be after my time I hope but I hope it's not there soon thank you
How to overcome inertia
okay thanks for today um my question is when you first became Co and you you
said you draft up you have this plan of changes that you're going to initiate those changes and
Bria try to align all
this both board members I guess I'm not trying to overgeneralize but I guess we all have those
moments that we foresee
all the frictions and disagreements we're going to have with all the stakeholders also
shareholders um I'm
curious how you overcome those kind of inertia or those kind of stress moments
huh uh you know interestingly um two two or
three things happened one is when this Mega Trend work was done okay and I
talked about it publicly the biggest Mega Trend which showed up in everybody's work was
showing up in the
data was the strend towards health and wellness every retailer was creating sections in their
store for healthier
products so that Trend was had already that train had already left the station
and we hadn't even noticed that okay so we knew we had to make the change we had
made Acquisitions like Quaker roads but let me give you what let me tell you what happens
when you buy a good for you
company and put it inside a fun for you company the first thing that our people do is take
quots make a bar out of it
and dip it in chocolate was a great seller because that's what we know how to do we know
how to make it taste great by dipping it in chocolate but it takes away the good for you image
imery of Quaker roads so
when you think about good for you you have to think of a different imagery okay so let me
come back the health and
wellness was a trend that was common to everybody what was even more surprising is you
go to investors and they say why
do you have to shift the product towards health and wellness uh if we want health and
wellness we will invest in a healthy
food company you keep doing what you're doing and I would explain to them that if we kept
doing what we were doing our
growth rate would slow slow down the best and brightest would leave PepsiCo because our
growth rates have slowed
down and then we become a utility they said that's okay give us more dividends and we
invest in those companies they
forget again they've never been in a company remember the only way you keep this company
alive is through growth
because growth is what you know grows and expands people and growth is the oxygen of
every company so we had to
keep investing in the growths to keep it going they would tell me things like uh you know we
are they look at me
because I'm an immigrant they would say things like we are Americans we love our soda and
chips leave it
alone I'm reducing the salt fat and sugar and the products and you don't even know I did it
because we are doing
it little by little by little every 3 or 4 months so that you won't even feel the
difference okay it's a training habit lot of uh negative uh publicity
attacks on me in the first three four years in particular but this was the most puzzling thing I
would turn back to
them and say have you changed your eating and drinking habits oh absolutely I eat healthy
now you know I'm really
worried about the environment but I don't want you to do it you see the problem is that the
moral code of their
life and the moral code of their livelihoods were were not coming together okay so it's like uh
you make
the products you put the advertising behind it I'm not going to buy it let somebody else buy it
to me that was a
jarring problem so what I would say is the first four or five years was
constant attacks criticism uh where I was helped and I'm
now going to say this tongue and cheek every country in the world pretty much put taxes on
our products I hated the
taxes because they never used the tax to improve the health of the citizens they used it to plug
budget gaps even the US
I would say 20 States had taxes on our products all of a sudden I could tell
investors do you see what's happening in the marketplace plants are being shut down because
we use too much water our
products are getting taxed don't you think we should start making the change slowly they
came on board I would say
the first six years were hell the second six years were oh my God she's so pre
how did she realize this was coming so early and then after I retired they gave me every
honorary degree and prize they
could think of but these were the three phases of my
How to convince powerful people
life so uh thanks for sharing with us today I'm fascinated by the story of like thinking
differently and in long
term and the ex executing uh successfully so I assume through your
journey of restructure PA you meet a lot of like challenges from powerful people
so I just want to know powerful people yeah people who have strong opinion and they have
real power so can you share
some like a tips like how did you convince these people when they think differently with you
and the two carry
on go well you know I had powerful people who are on my side and against me
I mean I remember Larry fin who's the head of Black Rock who was you know one of the
most powerful people he has never
gone on TV and said I endorse this company strategy and the CEO when I had
the first activist investor he went on TV and said Don't Touch This company I endorsed the
ceoo and the strategy and
he told me I would never do it for any other CEO I'm doing it for you which was huge
Tailwinds for me the funny thing is
I had two activists in my stock the first was relational investors and I'm tell you a story about
them they came
into our stock and um they were coming to have the first meeting with me in New
York at the lawyer's offices in Manhattan and we were waiting for them to come and the
bankers and the lawyers
were telling me I said I'm going to go to the elevator to meet the people because it was in a
me in a building
where you had to go through right turn left turn before you came to the conference room and
they said no you don't want to do that I said why not
it's respect you know the investors they said oh you know that guy who's a head of uh
relational who's coming to see you
he's an oh okay have you met him before to make this comment oh no no that's what we
heard nobody had ever met him I went up to the elevator greeted him and from the
elevator to the conference room which should have taken us 5 minutes or 3 minutes took
about 20 minutes because we
stopped everywhere we talked about his family he was going on a cruise around
some uh see in the Christmas holiday we talked about all that when we came and we sat
down and we articulated our
strategy he looks at me and says don't change a damn thing when the stock price goes up a
little bit I'm going to sell
the stock but if anybody writes anything negative about my ownership of PepsiCo
stock I didn't say it and you know what he stayed friends
with me friends with me until he died prematurely from cancer he stayed great friend so this
is the so-called activist
investor they called an in fact when he died he left me a first edition
book which he had year marked for his wife to come and give to me Ralph Whitworth of
relational investors we're
talking about PE powerful people who you know you were afraid of Nelson pel came
into our stock Tran people are terrified about Nelson plus I've known Nelson for
10 years before he came into my stock called me and said sweet out I'll come into your stock
I said for what he said
I want you to buy meles I said I don't want to buy meles he said I have an ownership in mes I
want you to buy mes
and then get rid of your beverage business I said I'm not going to change my strategy this is
the strategy he said
you're so stubborn I'll make you look good you'll make so much money I said I don't want to
make so much money I want
this company to be successful for years and if I bought mes I will be unsuccessful because
you have no idea
what it takes to split the company just because you want to split and what it takes to go
through the FTC to merge two
snack companies which will never be allowed in the first place so I'm not going to you know
perturb this
company he tried for 2 or 3 years went to my board and the board said thank you for your
input but we're not changing
one thing again the board was my Ally so Nelson p went away so the way you handle
powerful people is you tell them the truth tell them what you're doing and if at the end of the
day your boat pulls a
rug from under you or you can't take the criticism anymore you have to walk out that's part
for the
course that's what we did and making it look easier than it was it was tough
going you would go on CNBC and talk about me and then he' come talk about PepsiCo not
about me and then he call me
and say honey you know I never talked about you I said thank you I didn't know that
QA
you got called honey and sweetheart sweetheart babe babe babe was the most
common let's take uh let's try to get a couple quick questions in and then we'll
turn to the global Network okay P answers from me is what Ted is saying no no babe you can
do whatever you want
thank you honey hi Andra thank you so much for being here my name is Kiana um I just
want to say I'm personally so inspired by you your tenure your legacy your grace and your
just giving back um and
you've done it all as a woman of color um which is so personally inspiring to me with that
being said the makeup of
the Fortune 500 leadership is still very white and very male um I believe today there are only
50 or so women CEOs two
of which are black women so how do we go about changing the landscape and Status Quo so
that more black and brown women
specifically Ascend to these levels of executive leadership you know it's interesting I was up
at Dartmouth about
for the inauguration of the new president and the first session was Shan Bok and I doing a fir
side chat and
somebody asked us a question exactly what you said um you know only 53 women
in the Fortune 500 11% uh what can you looked at me and Shan and said what can you do to
get
this number up I said don't look at us we have to educate the men men hold all
the positions of power you know what happened happens is they look at women and say what
can you do to make more
women CEOs women talk to women for what you know in World economic for in Davos
when we talk about these issues there are women on the panel talking to women in the
audience and the few men there
they came to that room just to do their emails because they couldn't find a seat anywhere else
I mean come on I think we
have to start talking about the best talents to rise to the top as opposed to
the best men to rise to the Top If men can be trained to look at talent in a
gender neutral background neutral way I think more women will rise to the top first but I'm
not giving the whole story
the second point is today as a society we do not provide support structures for
people who want to have a family and a career and today we've defined family as female
that's how we've defined it
family is male and female okay that's how the family got created so if both parts of the family
contribute to having
a family having children then you've got to talk about how are you going to commit to
working in the
company to move ahead and what kind of support structures can the company provide we
can't provide everything but
how can we provide the right support structures but I think the talent is out there it's how do
you nurture and
develop them and not put on these glasses which says if you're
anything by a white male you cannot move ahead it's got to be I want the best talent to move
it I still remember in
PepsiCo When I Was Made CEO the four people before me were white males
Christian had served in the US arm Services okay um somebody wrote to Steve
rhaman saying that was a typical CEO and what have you done you've got an
immigrant woman of color running PepsiCo who not even a Christian and Steve rhin
magnificent human being wrote back saying the board focused on picking the
best candidate for the job the board focused on picking the best candidate for the job and I
think we did
great so you need more enlightened people like Steve yeah who think that way I don't think
we have enough of them
yeah so I'm going to interrupt this phase um this class will resume after
the break and have some additional time with Indra so but the global Network folks are going
to leave
in 16 minutes okay so let's get some questions from our friends around the
world and we'll start with SOS
ramakrishnan and if you could unmute and ask your question can can you hear me
now excellent please proceed yes uh indan I'm I'm actually
from Chennai Madras ahuh yeah so it's it's midnight here and
I'm very interested to listen to you but since time is running out you when we talk about
purpose ful leadership when
you practice it it's it's easier to say from the top that we practice the purposeful leadership but
how do you go
down the line to put your purpose into the minds of the employee and the other stakeholders
and and how did you manage
that when you manage such a large company and aligning all of your stakeholders with the
same Purpose with
which you are driving the company uh uh I feel it's quite challenging and want to have some
words from you on that well
thank you for that question I think what happens is when you first unveil what you're going to
do you've got to be the
missionary that gets it out to the rank and file and you've got to be consistent you've got to be
out there talking about
it again and again and again and again and you've got to get everybody signed up because this
is something when you
talk about purpose it engages people's hearts and they feel good going home and
talking about it this is not a bad thing they actually feel good talking about this and so you've
got to go out into
the organization and talk about them but it's not enough to do it once every time you go out
somewhere you have to talk
about this every town hall every meeting that's videotaped and sent out remember those days
we didn't have zoom and all
that stuff was all videotapes that had to be sent out you just had to give the same message
over and over again the
annual report had performance at purpose for all 12 years that I was see and Ramon has got
winning with purpose so
it's not as if he has decided to completely throw it away so I I think
that consistency and the troops believing that this is not a program of
the day and uh knowing that this is the direction of the company makes all the difference in
the
world our next uh question is going to come from Ernesto Cruz so Ernesto could you unmute
and maybe before you pose your question could you identify where where you are
and what school you're from thank you so much much uh this is Ernesto Cruz I am uh
coming to you from
Heritage University at the yakam nation in Washington state and uh uh I thank you so much
for
spending this time with us and inviting the rest of us to join you through Zoom uh my
question is is it possible to
enlist competitors as key stakeholders to make a more significant systemwide
impact on issues like water conservation and development of of sustainable packaging
processes most certainly in
fact the healthy weight commitment Foundation was engaging the industry all our
competitors everybody uh in fact I
would say the fellows in the Red beverage company down south and I became
friends you know healthy weight commitment foundation and um you know we
all had a shared objective which is we want to be viewed positively by industry because we
provided jobs we provided great livelihoods all of that stuff we gave
people great salaries in our companies but why were we the subject of so much negative
attention it's awful to be a
company that is always getting negative press so we all wanted to have the
industry be viewed as the good companies good financially and good ethically so we all
engaged with each other and you
know we came together to say if we could have gotten seat belts through and we
could have uh you know child uh seat seat belts all of that stuff if we could
have gotten it through um some sort of a public relations campaign certainly we can get
healthy weight commitment into the uh zist of people so it's easy to bring
people together if industry comes together and works together easy to do it okay our next
question comes from CT
mura please unmute and uh tell us where you're calling in from
hello can you hear me okay yes okay first of all thank you for this
session um it's really an honor to be able to hear um live from you I have a
question regarding the performance with purpose so you launch performance with purpose a
strategic initiative that can
be considered ahead of its time at the time when ESG is almost
unheard of and sustainability and profitability are usually considered as
two different entities and considered as tradeoffs of each other and you also
focus on making Pepsi Co more healthy during times when health awareness is still low and
making a bet on healthy
comfortable near-term profit margins can you tell us the biggest challenge that you faced in
pushing this forward and
how did you prese and and CT where are you calling in from uh sorry uh I'm City
from esmt Berlin based in Germany excellent thank you well you know what I
talked about all this time was very much answering the question that you just asked which is
you know having Clarity
in what you're doing and why you're doing it very very important repeating the same message
again and again getting
the right people signed up with you like the board of directors your key Executives um
talking to the industry
and saying let's work on this together uh and fighting all the taxes and all
that came our way not in a negative way but you know I would go to state
governments or countries and say why did you impose the tax if it's for health reasons what
what can we do together to
improve the health of the people and so they would say oh no no it's not for health Reon we
want the money for our
budgets like why didn't why why not tax every category tax sugar why are you
taxing us tax sugar oh no no the farmers will get mad so you see they had a
object they had a clear uh plan to attack certain companies in certain
categories so at every point every critic I engaged with them positively listened to their point
of view walked a
mile in their shoes and figured out how to devise a strategy to work with them
so I think if you have a positive approach to these programs and assume positive intent of all
of those people
the way you can operate is very different than if you start off saying they don't like
companies they don't like CEOs rubbish you know just walk a
mile in their shoes for a moment okay and then see what the best example would
give you I would tell some of my Executives I'm going to take all the freed bags that come
out of our business
and put it in your backyard in a landfill how would you like it wouldn't go anywhere near it I
wouldn't allow it
hey today's landfill is somebody else's foundation in 10 years many many
countries so how would you like it to be your foundation would hate it so it's not going to go
to the foundation let's
figure out where to put it so we had to give these tough messages to get people
to sign up to it it wasn't pleasant I'll be honest with you because people would say why are
you criticizing our own
business model I'm not criticizing our model I'm saying we have so much opportunity to
improve how we do things
urgency you have to have that sense of urgency Ted otherwise you'll never work with that
feeling of we have to
address it as opposed to it's too difficult let me put it
off okay the next uh question comes from Charles and I'm not sure if I can
pronounce his last name but it looks like it's only three letters a AO a a d a a d okay Charles
tell us
where you're from and then pose your question please so uh I'm from Paris
France I'm doing the MBA program at HC Paris uhuh uh thank you Mrs N for the
your engaging conversation and for the time you spending with us uh so I have a question
basically when you talked about
uh product design and the multiple dimensions of building a design you also in your master
class talk about zooming
out and zooming in you also talked about the meat TRS today um so uh so you talk
about it as it's if very easy to be done but you did this well while you were
managing 315,000 people at PepsiCo one of the biggest companies in the world
and had to uh drill down into design and into product design issues and supply
chain and all of that if you were to give an advice to the leaders today who
all think uh 300 3,000 ft above the ground what would be your advice to uh
allow them to manage such things while with the old racing time traps that they have how to
be present without being
perceived as micromanagers you know um micromanaging was is micro understanding are
two very
different things and I think each one of you should zoom in into any issue before
you zoom out and I'm going to give an example that I just gave at a speech I had to give just
before I got here uh
let's say you're the L product manager okay and you take over the lay
product and you decide you're given the mandate to grow it a typical product manager will
say what Innovation was
done what marketing campaigns were done what kind of packaging and pricing options were
done and do a very standard
Playbook if I were if I was the product manager for LS and I was a product
manager many many years ago in my life I would spend the first two months digging deep
into let me understand the
manufacturing of lays what are the degrees of freedom I have what is can I change the shape
of lays can I have a
different potato can I cut the potato differently can I fry it differently at different temperatures
I would go into
every detail on manufacturing so I understand the degrees of freedom on manufacturing I
would go to R&D what can
be done I put R&D in manufacturing together what can be done and not done I would
understand farmers and their
incomes and how I need to work with them because lace is nothing but potato fried right got
worry about that I would work
with all of them to say can I Engineer a different potato that gives me a different chipping
experience or should
I combine potato with something else like Pringles does to give you a a different experience
so I would
understand all of this and then on the Shelf how it gets displayed how much air can I take out
of a bag how do I put it
on a truck I would understand every detail of the business and the costs
that is are associated with that before I step back from it and say okay now what do I want to
do with this brand
this is from micro understanding not micromanagement this is zooming down now i' zoom up
and
say okay I need to go lace brand am I going to grow la brand at the expense of Doritos
Tostitos Cheetos because that's
a traditional weight right but no maybe I should look beyond that and say I should take share
from nuts and Chez
itss and Ritz crackers or maybe I should take share from sweet
occasions or maybe I should take share from French fries because you know sandwiches and
chips Burgers and Fries maybe I should think about taking share from fries so
besides zooming in to understand in the business I'm zooming out to understand where do
lays belong in the overall
environment you have to have that capability to zoom in and zoom out this
is not micromanaging or macrom managing it's micro understanding and macro
understanding to be able to do your job better most people Define their job to
be narrower than it needs to be or Define it broad so that it's
ununderstandable zoom in in zoom out constantly zoom in and zoom out ask
yourself oh crackers are taking share why can't I make crackers on the L line go back down to
R&D and Manufacturing
why can't I make a baked product on a fried line help me understand instead of sending it to
the fire can I have a side
Loop to send it through a baking device we did bake lay remember how did that happen these
are the kinds of questions
you have to ask yourself all the time zoom in unconstrained zooming in
unconstrained zooming out you do that your whole view of the world
changes and micro understanding what a great term it is that's what people forget they call it
immediately
micromanaging no I'm not telling the r& guy you know what the R&D people the
manufacturing people are just thrilled
that the head person is now learning their business the way they run it every day and the
challenges they face every
day nobody thinks that way go and take the time go deep read the books read
everything about it then come out well we're going to wrap up this
component of our wonderful visit with andrai um I I'm reminded that uh when
Pepsi started sponsoring the NFL major event the Super Bowl Indra zoomed in to
learn everything about football and the Yankees when I got the Yankees but you know
football again I got to know every
owner I got to know every Stadium I promise them I'd come to every game not
a game for every owner and I'd go for the first quarter maybe the second quarter I head back
home cuz I have kids
at home too right so but I made a presence in owners and I know all of them personally
today so so and I'm not the football type as you can see so uh class we're
going to resume in 22 minutes about give Endra some time um many of you know
you've heard me say this when I listen to somebody like Indra I always try to
think what what are my takeaways and I would like each of us in the class to
think about the following if you had to pick one factor in Ender's
approach that was most important and consequential what factor would you
choose and send that information to our Uber ta and we'll get we'll get some feedback
for for Indra which you might I realize you're not the CEO but I think may be
interesting yeah sure absolutely and for the people on Zoom um feel free to post
that in the chat and we'll review your answers as well so with that thank you Indra we'll see
you all right 20 minutes
thank you [Music]
guys