2023-04-02 16-17-33

Mon, Apr 03, 2023 5:26PM • 43:40

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, promoted, manager, question, layoff, motivate, key, industry, ethical dilemma, organization,
promotion, project, team, role, india, metrics, performance, perform, person, diversify

SPEAKERS
C Aashish Vishwaa Vel, Manager 2

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 00:00

Is it okay to recording arm stand. So let's start the interview. So before that I would just like to ask how,
how your day will be like, in your office hours in your work? What will you be doing and pose a day? In
your life?

Manager 2 00:22
You're going to start with the question. Yep.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 00:29

So, basically what are you will be doing in a particular day, what all activities you will be doing and
how's the day in your life?

Manager 2 00:38
Should see, basically right in my from, from my role and responsibilities could take care of overall
delivery of the patient or whatever. Right. So just to give before I explain my responsibility, okay, so
basically, I work in a IT industry in the banking sector, so I manage the work for a bank in IT, one of the
leading banks in Europe, okay, there's a No.1 bank managed, one of the key division. So my
responsibilities take care of delivery of the complaint, the complaint multiple domain. So my key
responsibility, most of my day start with my day reading, checking all my emails, that's where I start.
Then I'll go through all the critic, all the meetings that has been scheduled for me every day I Have
Items to follow up, right, there are ActionAid, which I need to follow up with a lot of my managers, tech
tech guys, right? And also look at make sure that whatever we are supposed to meet the deadline, are
we waiting? What are the team outward? How do I get rid of that? So basically, resolve the
impediments go through the email, talk to the manager and figure out what is the status of a project?
How do I help them in terms of delivery, budgeting, resourcing? And also right, so an update to my
Bosses to make sure that I do so project? How are we doing on the budget? How are we doing on the
delivery and also escalate the key issue, right. So my most of my day was in meetings, and also trying
to understand our team's progress. That's most of it. And that the whole day is my day will be
responding to emails, and also and also mostly meetings, and if there is any urgent production issue, or
they have to stop a meeting and take it. That's, that's okay.

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C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 02:37
Okay, okay. Okay, so, now I'll start with the actual major questions, we comprises of nine questions.
And certain questions have subdivisions. So the first question is, what skills are important to succeed
as a manager in your organization? give me examples of why those skills are important.

Manager 2 02:58
Okay, so. So like I said, right, I work in a banking sector Banking IT. So it purely depends upon the
market, right? So company market, how the US market reacts, Europe market reacts to what tends to
be, right. So one key thing, you have to start with it right, you should have a mission. And that Mission
should align with your company or organization, which they have to that Mission to be a strategy for
practically once upon, where are you? how the how the market is?, and what your company wants you
to do. Right? So that's one of the key qualifications are to be strategic as well as tactical, you should
know when to make strategic decisions when to a tactical. So basically, in short, he will tell you that you
will be good strategic and tactical mission. Number two is right, you have to motivate and inspire your
team. So the team has a wide range of people, right when I say a wide range of people means you
have from seniors to out of the college first grads that's likely. So we can able to motivate them, inspire
them. If you didn't, you don't get an opportunity to meet to know all of them or meet all of them, get
various opportunities to talk. So talk to the team because of the role you're playing. You will not have
time to meet the developer, all districts What about limited time you're getting you should be able to
motivate and inspire. But that's the second point. Last thing is basically that you have to be Honest and
you show some empathy to the Team. So that's the key. That's the key key leadership comes from that
right being in IT industry always be to think about the latest technologies, about innovations. That's in
terms of technology perspective. How do we innovate? How do we digitalize, right? That's part of your
job? Are you insured, right? And these three things strategic and tactical, you have to be if you have a
good vision, and probably you should have empathy in your leadership, right, and you should be able to
motivate and inspire people. three key things rest all falls in place.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 04:57

No, okay. Okay, fair enough. There we go. completely understand. So you're basically telling me that I
should have a certain level of empathy as well as leadership qualities. And I must be in a position to
understand what to do, where to do and when to do it correctly. And basically,

Manager 2 05:18
right now the market is not doing well in banking, right? So you should think, right, you should take and
do it, but this is like buying this product, or should they build this product on my own? Or buy this
product? Right? Those kinds of decisions, right? They do it in US or Singapore, or it's make sense to
do it in India, right? So what will be the long time impact those kinds of dishes, Those are key, right?
With market going down when people are expecting you to cut cost, right? At the same time, you had to
take care of your people also, right. So that's already how to decide when to be strategic, when to be
tactical what to do it, we already know that that's a key skill, which will enable you to grow in the
organisation and as always, right, like any other job should always have a long term vision.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 06:02

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So the next question that I have for you is, describe the best leader you're worked for. And what did
they do differently, apart from the other leaders that we look up to?

Manager 2 06:11
So I cannot name one what not just the politics a lot of good leaders manage to work with, right. So one
thing which, there are different stages of your career, right? So let's say 10 years back, right, I was
working with the manager, who actually changed the way I work. Okay, who really inspired me And
completely change the way I think that I do things. So that's, that's what a leader should do and he has
to work along with your, rather than teaching you right? he should guide you, right? He should mentor
you, rather than dictating, wait It's not teaching It's dictating. Basically, a good leader for me is who
finds my strength and weakness and always work new things that will make me do my work to do ? And
innovate, protect my business, right? That's what my all my leaders did. And also, he helped me
throughout the process to correct my weaknesses. And what those guys do differently, right? First thing
in leadership is trust. Trust. So these two people entrusted me, right gave me complete backup support,
right? Even if they do something wrong, obviously, in the wrong career, you could go wrong in lot of
other forms but you need a right manager to support you, the right manager to backup the right so
those guys did that. They can coach you in a way that you are not hurt, right? It's not about pointing,
pointing things, they will tell you in a way that genuinely they'll be helped you to grow in your career.
Another thing is it being very transparent, saying things black and white, right hand and also right, the
freedom to think and execute. Right? They don't they don't micromanage, right? The biggest problem
we have in atleast in IT industry is the some managers micromanaged to get the complete control of
the project, right? All these leaders, whatever I'm saying, right, they let me manage my own way. And
they just step in and step out whenever I went when things are going wrong that way, right. And I have
the complete control the same, right? That gave me the freedom to do that. Right? In short, in short,
right, to summarize it for me, the leader should trust me, right? That's what my manager did to
complete respect, they coached me they helped me to improve on my weakness and add value to my
strengths, right, put it away, give me right tasks and right pushing. And the third thing is giving a
freedom of Opinion. Right freedom of speech, and they will let me do whatever I do when when things
go wrong. They allow a complete backup purpose.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 08:53

so basically trying to let us express our opinions, finding the weaknesses and the best things in
Ourselves and at the same time knowing when to step in and step out. Next best Yes,

Manager 2 09:04
yeah, exactly right. And then you will not even know that they are doing it that way.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 09:12

Okay, so the next question is describe an ethical dilemma you have faced at work, and how did you go
about resolving it?

Manager 2 09:21
So what So what what do you mean by ethical dilemma in any

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C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 09:26
ethical dilemma since any liquor dilemma that you face related to workforce, so say, for example, two
people, and they're working under you and one is performing better, but the other one has the skills and
you do know it? So you don't know whether to like appraise which one and not do. So it's sort of an
ethical dilemma you're in and you're you are not able to decide what to do at that point. So how would
you go about resolving it and what are the basic factors that we need to look into when we are facing a
dilemma?

Manager 2 09:59
That's easy. Okay. Yeah, I see an example you said, we run into a bee every year a pricing rate or
people work very hard throughout the year, but end of the day there is only one, right. So, you have to
gain you cannot you cannot rate everyone is outstanding. That is going to be one of the one
outstanding performance. Right? Exactly. So, it's more than right, you have to you have to see the
context, right? People have worked on it, right? You have to see the context, basically, or what context
it was. So, so that that's one of the key thing. And, and being in the IT industry, right? So you have to
see what kind of technologies they use, what kind of project pressure was the what was the timeline out
of the client was, right? So all these things will come into play. Right? So let's see this this person,
essentially, to keep this game, right. At the end of the day, you try to choose what is good for the
project and what is good for the right. So this challenge only comes in when there are two people
working on the same project, and trying to present same kind of work. And you have to choose only
one at the end of the day. So this happens for every manager who who does an appraisal, at the end of
the day, end of the day, you have to choose whatever works for your team and your company in long
term. That's the only thing right? Somebody is like, let's say somebody's 40 years of experience, as
done the same thing as seven years of experience. So obviously, the audience experience will get a
better rating because of his less experience or the kind of experts regard as the same as, right. So you
have to look at the details and figured out right in those situations. Right? I would say ethical dilemma,
Giving the right thing to the deserved, right. So so that way, right? Sometimes it's difficult, but the end
of the day, right? You have to make a decision as a leader. So just choose one, whatever works for
your whatever, whatever is good for your project, and, and good for your organization and harness the
results.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 11:58

Okay, okay. That is very fair point. But, again, in the same note, just doubt from apart from the things
that I have listed here. In the same case, we are sort of facing an ethical dilemma, right? Why I'm
asking this because, say, for example, we have facts of a person who works better, but we also have
facts of another person who has a set of particular skills. And we do know that if they can do it, they do
it even in an efficient manner. So in that case, why is that? So we select the first person and not the
second one.

Manager 2 12:36
So the reason is, right, see, so the way it works is when you when when you when you start a project,
or when you join an organization, Yeah, the manager was supposed to set your expectations. They
said your expectations that are using goals, or in certain organizations, they call this OKR. Objective
and key results, So they set all these things, right, and they are measured on that end of the day, it's a

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peer comparison, okay? People are performing same right, then you have to compare that who is
better. So, and not everybody is going to get the same opportunity, right? Because it's not like a
mechanical industry or it's IT industry will be different kind of project. The project will be there where
you try to put things from the scratch from paper to build a software, there are other projects, just
maintenance project, right? So that's why I said like, you have to look at the context. So if somebody
says, right, I would have done that,I would have done This. Probably we should give them the
opportunity, the next operation, the or next appraisal, right? This year's appraisal is what what you're
done for last year, right? So it's like, it's like, right, based on like, instead remembering to repeat it
again. Right. So basically, we have to look at the context, right? What do you do when you're trying to
jump from 50 feet or 150 feet? Yeah. 150 feet with parachute or without parachute? So. So there are
certain clear metrics and expectations defined based on that we are doing it. Of course, it's something
that's why he said and sometimes there are cases where, you know, both of them are done a similar
kind of work, kind of performance, right? They've really worked hard day and night and then good for
the project. But the end of the day, you have to make a decision. It's like 100 meters Race, right? You
in Olympics, right? You practice for four years, but at the end of the day, only one is going to get the
gold medal. But everybody has put the same effort, right? It's sometimes it's hard, but that's part of your
job, you have to make a decision

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 14:33

Okay. Okay. So, the next question has two subdivisions as is explained you the subdivisions along with
the question. So, describe a reason major organizational change that you had implemented, okay, and
what was your role in it? So and also, what did you like about the change and not like about the
change? Once the change has been made? How did you convince your subordinates to adopt it? The
Change

Manager 2 15:02
Yeah, so yeah, that'd be great. Because change right what we have done so typically, right? Being in
India in so obviously, you often asked to do is that? Okay? So they say cut down the cost since there
are teams in Singapore, and all this case solved. Okay. So when you when they play that role being
head of delivery or whatever, right? What are the key thing come to God, actually, what do you need to
do we need to bring some changes in structure. So, structure basically, in layman's term don't bring add
more people in India, people in Singapore or Paris, whatever, right? So, so the biggest challenge here
is right, that that's a goal given to you because the organization wants to build the team in India. That's
their goal as a manager, I said right, first thing is you have to have to align to overarching goals and
come up with a strategy and then right then you have to come up with a plan right? What kind of
resources can move to India, what kind of resources you cannot be there? And how do you manage
the team? So any change that we respond to the organization, so as a manager, you need to convince
the people. So one one thing the way I convince right, that is what I did, So basically, I was trying to
bring people from here to there, right from from US and Singapore to here, right? One thing that
remains people are staying in India is great, at least they have they have a pretty good growth, while
the people who are playing that role is not going to be there, that also will be moved to India, that
makes you have an opportunity to grab that. And you become a key person in that role. And there's an
opportunity for you to shine in the project as well as the organization thats the right kind of motivation.
You are a key person, because you know, the application now, you are the key person, right? So far,

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you are dependent on someone now you are the you are a key person, right, that we like, what they
don't like about that role is that you have to let go people, okay, or you have to ask them to take some
other role or help them to move. Right. Kind of art, that so the industry, so you have to see what's good
for the organization, we have the data. So that that's that's one thing, right? That's one of the key thing,
coming to the second part of the question, right? How do you go? convincing your subordinates? So
again, right, like I said, Any change is going to have some resistance from the team. So like I said, it's
going to be more work. When When will you move someone from our from our from on site to here,
that's going to be more, so the only way to manage them was when you have to set expectations, close
to them clearly saying that if you do ABCD, then probably you have a potential or you have a potential
chance to grow indoors, and he probably can do from this level, you may end up managing a team, or
you may get your visibility gets higher, because we're doing that, right. These are the things I have
done to make sure that that guy is motivated and ready to do the job. Right. So so that's how you
convince them, right? And also you have to tell them about cards, or an actual vision and goal or what
they're planning to do in India or why they want to move to India, how much faster you're saving, how
does it help us? Right? So those kinds of we have to get into the weeds and explain certain people.
Okay, so that's so you have to convince them that the end of the day, right, people will be happy if you
tell them a clear path. What will I get if I do this? You have an answer?Then probably you will be able to
convince them, right? We don't have an answer, then it's kind of Hard

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 18:55

okay. Okay. So, next question is pretty simple. You might have heard it a lot of times, but how do you
think layoff affects the individual teams, and the company says?

Manager 2 19:12
It's already hard to clarify. It's very, very hard to tell people, your close colleagues, friends, right? I've
been through this many times, but it's kind of very hard to tell them that you don't have a job from
tomorrow. Again, right? There are certain things you have to do, because you are in that role, right? So
it's more than the people read it or to stick to it, you have to do it because the company doesn't have
money and you're not doing well the market is not well, right. So you need a bit of maturity to
understand that first of all, so probably, if it thinks I'm doing a layoff in the US, it's pretty straightforward.
Okay. People understand it and it's part of their professional life. But in India, it's pretty difficult to
convince people. Okay, so that second part of it is currently right that'll be that'll be always write some
kind of tension in there. If a layoff happens, because they know you never know who's going to be next.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 20:07

Oh yeah. So,

Manager 2 20:08
so what happens typically in this way, typically nobody likes layoff right. So, nobody likes to be laid off
or nobody like me wants to tell tell someone that you are getting getting fired, right so. So, at the end of
the day, it cannot be avoided, right, there is no work, and there is no money in the company, nothing
and you have to let people go. And when you let you can go sometimes we let go underperformance
sometimes we have to let go good performance also, because the division has been shut down or
whatever reason is that. So the only way you can motivate people is right, it's very hard to motivate in

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that situation, you have to tell them that after can't tell them before it happened, right. So you have to
wait until it happens. After you're sure there is not going to be any more layoffs for the next six months
or so at least can board and tell them that we have as a senior management have decided not to layoff
or say today, we'll take care of it we had a hard decision gravitated because of so on. So our q1 growth
or our total growth has gone down by 20% of the customers are not doing well. Right? It's not it's not
like probably right. We will also sometimes you have told them that whenever the company gets gets
back on its feet and start making good revenue, right may reply we have there are people we are
pulling back also, right? We call them after three months, six months, we'll tell them hey, why don't you
come on and join us that's what we do, right? So bottom line Obviously, we really have more alone be
good. So as a manager, how to make sure that the employees they can have taken care of only
Through transparent conversation, nothing else, okay, you have to be very open with them, you have to
give a promise that at least right for next six months of payments, it can be done. But the challenge, the
flip side of that is right. With the moment there is layoffs, people will start looking outside and they will
start looking for jobs. So that's also up there, because you never know when this will happen. So you
know, try to we try as transparent as possible, right? And tell them that you take care of there are
people in the industry for working work for sometimes who know how valuable they are. And people
who think they are not valuable sometimes right? They themselves will do it. So it's very, very hard.
There is no one straightforward answer for a person, the end of the day, right? You have to take the
decision at the end of the day, how to work closely with the team and motivate them and make sure
that you're transparent and your take. That's why right. I talked about empathy leadership, right, that
that's what comes into place here. Okay.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 22:40

So what I'm just talking along the same lines of this. I was thinking to point that thinking about layoffs is
going to create a very scary environment or a very unstable environment in the workplace, but wanted
motivate people to do work better in an efficient manner. Because they don't want to get layoffs
motivate. So they might push themselves to an extent where they perform at their best level so that
they are not pushed out of the company. This is what I was thinking. So

Manager 2 23:15
what you're saying is right. It's not like there are there are companies layoff people, even though they
perform well, right? Because let's say working for a division, right for an insurance company, or
whatever it is the insurance company itself is closed. Okay. What do you do? They perform well, there
is no place for you because that division is closed, right? That's why right? It's very convoluted
discussion. You never know. It's not because if there is no guarantee that you perform, we will not be
here. Again, it's called contextual, right? What happens, right? If you're trying to lay up under
performance, obviously, a lot be laid up. If you're trying to lay off people across, let's say Amazon laid
off, right? Let's take a live example. You will know right? Get into always on or Facebook, you have to
put a lot of effort, I'd be really strong in your basics on data structure. And they have to come out of
college. By default, those ways performance, right? Foot performance. That's why they're in Amazon
and Google and Facebook. Right. But they're getting laid off. Right? And the guys who are getting laid
off for like 15 years, 20 years, are building Google Maps part of building like some of those projects.
Right? So obviously, to answer your question, they are good. They are performance, right? But a
company doesn't have enough money to fund the money to pay them. Right. So let's say if I take okay,

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I'm not going to add any new features to Alexa. I'm not going to add any new feature to Google Maps or
anything Google Maps to scale. Okay. I'm not going to get any future. Right? That means what?
There's going to be any change on the software right now for that made the existing software how
much interlining currency have quantified. But to maintain the correct Google Maps, I need only five or
10. Right? What do I do with this stuff to do? They're good performers. I'll try to so that I can pay since
there's almost no other if he's not doing well. So now I have to go back. Right. So so it's it's not about
just performance in just about the timing of the market and how we are. Right. And I'm using it to stop
the business not to do right. What? Yeah, it's not a good topic, right. But anyway, being in it, not other
industry does that right? The problem is, it happens only in it right to talk to mechanical industry, like
blue dye parents at all. They don't do layoffs, because they know, they have a clear prediction. Every
year, this this amount of contract, we're doing this, this is what if I went away, this was the right. But it
doesn't work. Like the more because you have to keep inventing is all about innovation, right? So you
take more and more people, you're trying to do machine learning, you're trying to do lots of things,
right? Data, Data stuff. And everything, I'm thinking about more technology, right? All of a sudden the
market drops, then you don't have money, he was just trying to invest in that, right? Because they are
not doing well. So that's the reason that I do all the budget. It's very often and it happens doesn't
happen that much the other interesting industry compared to Okay. Okay, they answered your
question.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 26:30

very precisely. So, yeah, so the next question is, is promotion always beneficial for the employee? Or
do you believe promotion can put a cap on productivity.

Manager 2 26:42
So promotion is supposed to improve the efficiency of their team, he is promoted, because like, he has
done more than what his current role anticipates, right? That's the only reason he get promoted. If
you're a software software engineer, if you're expected to, you're expected to get help from your
technical lead, and your senior software engineer or senior developer. But if you're able to complete
your task, without the guidance from your senior peers, and without a doubt, you are technically self,
right. That's when you get promoted, you don't get promoted, because you went on the role for three
years, right? You're getting promoted, because you're doing more than that, what that role like
aniticipates. That's when you get promoted, you get feedback from your clients, you get feedback from
your colleagues, you get feedback, techniques, you're modeling, it's whatever you call it, right? That's
what farming promotion is supposed to help someone to grow in their career, and keep getting
promoted, because he's doing more than we thought he understood, right? There are certain people
who are content with what they write, even though they are not automatic demand to get promoted,
right? There are instances, I know, a lot of people will say, No, I am happy with what I do and I don't
want to do anything else ,when you try to promote those guys, right? then you're getting Yourself into
trouble. Because they're not ready for somethign like that. Right? So basically, the point is promotion,
great, it has to be very well defined, we will get only promoted, we do more than what you're doing your
current that is care. And that's where you know, right. But enroll is doing more for you. When you get
promoted, obviously, we'll even look at the expectations of what is the promotion supposed to, to
motivate to motivate you and do more one, not not the other.

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C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 28:43
Okay. So to talk about something very interesting that I found is in the class, I was studying
management, there is this principle known as Peters principle. So the principles is basically stated that
every person in their life who's working is promoted to a point where they became useless. Meaning
that, say, for example, if I'm good at stitching cloth, and I get promoted to maybe printing cloth, then I
get promoted to the market, it might be better stitching and a bit more better at printing it, but I might be
worse at marketing. And then my promotion will stop there because I wouldn't be able, I won't be able
to perform very efficiently in order to like go up to the next level of promotional something. So is it
something that we actually look into the management that we impose this as sort of in the rules portion
was

Manager 2 31:08
Yes. Now, I think I need a promotion. Okay. And I think I am ready to be technology manager. Right.
But my, my boss thinks I'm not done, right? For some genuine reasons, okay. And he's trying to tell
you, but the project you're looking at is critical. Right? Let's say you're going, let's say you're the key
person in the project, right? Now we are going at telling your boss, right? Hey, if you don't promote me,
I'm going to find somewhere for myself, but the boss knows you are the critical person in the project,
you should be there complete the project otherwise then the client will be really upset, right? So,
particularly in IT industry, like these kinds of we run into these kind of lot of situations. Right. So what is
what is as a manager, what do you do now? You can't convince him because the market is very good.
The people will leave? Right? The easiest option is to promote them. Okay. Yeah. So do you think it's
right? Even though he thinks he's not ready?

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 32:12

Yeah, actually, in the sense, no, I would say it's a very bad decision, because when the boss considers
that he is not ready for the role, he is not ready for the role

Manager 2 32:25
what would happen to the project? If he leaves?

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 32:27

So yeah, the project would go down still, even instead of these modules, okay.

Manager 2 32:34
So so the point is, right here, when you try to promote somebody who is not there, right? You just
because promoting for the sake of promoting it, then then then write that story, you told me right, that
will happen, because he's not ready for that he's good at something, right. And he knows, and the
manager knows that right? Or the developer himself or games have knows that. But due to certain
circumstances we are promoting, right. So that right, probably at some point of time, he will pick up
those skills, and he'll go to the next level, that doesn't happen, that guy will stay there, you will get
frustrated. And a lot that happens. I in a lot and middle management, right? Because until first 10,12,13
years of experience, you will grow 10 years you will grow after that the growth stops because the curve
becomes narrower, the pyramid becomes narrower, right? So it's very hard. It's very hard, unless until
you're extremely good at management. Okay. Yeah. So that's pretty. So what you're telling us, right,

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right, sometimes you promote them, and you realize that they are not killing it. And they end up that
they get frustrated and they find somewhere else that that happens. So that's why certain alterations
are very clear rules and principles in terms of promotion and stuff. So you don't promote them for the
sake of promoting. That typically happens in our industry where a lot of people, but that's unavoidable.
It's not good.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 33:56

Yep. Okay. Okay. So, the next question has two subdivisions, and I'll be explaining both of
subdivisions. So, it's a combination to diversity necessary. So if so, how is your organization
accommodated individual differences? Well, evident differences may be managed, how can you
manage invisible differences?

Manager 2 34:22
So, diversity is now a key thing, okay. So look at HR perspective itself and start pushing, right you
cannot have this, how just one set of people in your team, right that needs to be diversity is made highly
promoted across all lighting. We must have diversity, sometimes HR, as a manager, your boss will
force you have to have diversity we need to always having a mixed set of male and female is always
good for the team. With a different set of ideas, people, it's easy to work out, right so it's always good, it
makes the team feel better. I've seen a personal experience, it's always to have a mix of boys and girls,
that will work a lot. So I will make sure that okay, and and also, right, it's hard as a boss, as a leader,
you have to make sure that when you when it comes to promotion, giving right roles placing right
people that also include diversity, right? You don't you don't promote just one set of gender. Okay, so
that they're all for us to see. And if you don't do that, also, there are there are principles, metrics and
processes in place where it will tell you that You're not doing it right .when I started my career as a
manager, 10 years, but there are people told me that a 20 member team have like 18,19 male and just
1 female. Right? so we told no, that's not the way it works. Okay, because that's the first product was
promoted, I didn't know I thought any take place, what date and they will they will be able to extend
their working hours all this there are people who are not taking them right, then then realize that it's
fairly stupid to do that. Okay, so it shouldn't be like that, because now like I said, the process policies in
place that diversity is needed and the team not just knitting across the organization, you're going to see
a lot of female leaders are there and How do you do that is this via metric right now people a lot of
metrics, What roles , how many people are there in terms of gender, how many are there? So they
have all the metrics and all so So, they will enforce them, the HR and the group will make sure that
even if you're not doing it, the process will make sure that you have to do that right. Under centrally I
was strongly saying to say that there is no one. it's kind of very hard case to break. So, to answer your
question it nothing invisible everything is in paper everything metrics is captured right. So, so, when
they find out they cannot do anything,

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 37:04

okay. So, there is no such thing as an invisible difference that will be missed out is

Manager 2 37:09
not the current world No, okay. Even if they there is right, if they even if there is there is people that has
metrics that will show you that you are not right. So everything is digitalized, right, when you enter a

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team enter the promotion, every rank, they will tell you 80% is this 20% is this 70% Is this particular to
the way that somebody says a specific role 95% of the team who belongs to one gender, and and not
the other gender, right, obviously, people will question it, unless until there's a very valid reason and
everyone buys that idea. It's kind of very hard, right? So you see a lot of CEOs all different genders
also. Okay.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 37:52

Okay. So, so, let me ask you the next question, which is, I feel is very important and interesting. So, this
monitoring performance management system is very necessary, and how would the company or firm
be affected? Otherwise, if performance performance management systems are?

Manager 2 38:12
Very simple? Yes. The answer is always the same question ready for another running a running race,
right. But only eight people are running. Ship the lockers to the person running, running last to get a
gold medal or the first person that answers your question, right? So, so, so, performance management
is obsolutely important that doesn't mean that you're trying to harass or dictate an employee, you just
refine certain rules and process what is needed for this go to Excel. Okay. And if you've made all the
parameters, that that's an monitoring how otherwise it'll affect your productivity right? We are expected
to complete a task in eight hours, When somebody completes in six hours, because he is good,
obviously, that he needs to be appreciated. And somebody is not able to complete in eight hours it
doesn't and 12 hours of 13 hours, he doesn't deserve to me to get whatever whatever benefits a
company Would give him like the person who has performed right. So that needs to be a subtle
difference when when it comes to performance, that will help you to grow right CP, you have to know
about yourself, right? Who will tell you right, somebody has to monitor the performance, they will tell
you right? Otherwise, your career will not grow. It's not just about the organization, right? As an
individual, as a manager, you have to tell you, somebody has to tell you that hey, you're doing well and
ABCD but not any other and otherwise you will be sitting there you will not be moving right? It's I see
they see that as an opportunity for me to excel in my career. Right. Apart from all this bonus, high
rating, all these things there is a key thing is getting very candid and honest feedback. Right. So All
right, so which you have to see it as a milestone in your career. I'm not doing well in this. We already
we don't even call it as weakness as you can nowadays, we're calling it as areas of improvement. So,
areas I need to do, so that I can go to next level, if somebody has to give that feedback, right. So yeah,
of course, monitoring performance is very important. And it has to be measured in periodic recoveries,
it shouldn't be done just one year, right? At the end of the day, you cannot lie to me, I cannot call
someone to say you haven't done. So it has to be regularly how to talk to them. Quarterly, sometimes
you have to talk to them by weekly, which is not Intel, give them constant feedback, so that they will
have an opportunity to improve on the right. So that's how it works. It's not our it's not a one time thing.
It's a periodic thing.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 40:48

Okay. Okay. So this will be the last question of the interview. So How crucial is it for an organization to
diversify into other industries or markets? What impact does this have on organization's overall risk?
And when do you believe an organization should start branching out into other fields?

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Manager 2 41:12
So same, so it's probably .Diversifying means, right, it depends on what kind of industry you're talking
about. Let's say you're in IT industry, they when you say diversify, right, it depends on what business to
do, like, being an IT company cannot go to making stock parts of a car. Right? So that's, that's not
diversification. Right? What what, what is this current asset that I have? I am in the industry for who's
servicing banks? Should I think about going to insurance company or healthcare, or manufacturing
software? That's what I call diversification. Right? When do they do that? Right. First of all, do they
need to do that? I don't know. It's very hard. I've never been played that role and have never been part
of it. Right? Because people will try to because explore a lot of opportunities in the same division and
excel. So typically, they'll go step by step right? First, they will try to excel and become a top notch gun
player in the current, whatever industry, they are before diversify, right, for diversifying away. Not every
company is successful diversified. So as long as a diversified within the IT industry, they are good, but
an ITindustry Trying to diversify in real estate market, then it becomes a problem. Right? If they do. So,
again, It's again, very contextual, So it depends upon what previous bank balances, right how their
balance sheet looks like. And really, they want to diversify what kind of risks they inherent right to all
there are so many things. It's not, it's not a it's not easy, easy question to answer.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 43:07

Fine, I completely understand. And I'm really happy that I got this opportunity to interview and I got a
really good, precise number of prompts that I need to make this report. So thank you so much for your
time. And thank you so much.

Manager 2 43:22
Thanks. I answered all of your questions. Let me know.

C Aashish Vishwaa Vel 43:26

Yes, You did answer my questions in very precise manner. Thank you. Thank you.

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