And I really would like to hear like I have all kinds of questions though a lot of

them were just answered in the course and I think it like for me the course itself
gave so much and I don't have so much questions as I had in the beginning because
this is good yeah really I feel like I've got a lot of happy to hear this yeah and
so maybe I
will really interested interested to hear your story like of you like just you
know your story with like
and being drawn to this project living in this project and touching the issues of
like leadership and
love and sexuality and like what what life stages and processes you had in your
science
right long story no long question so I maybe I start with my parents have been
divorced when I was
four and a half years old and when I now look back to this situation then I
believed that
I went into the situation I so consciously went into the situation in order also
to understand
that the system that two people stay forever too faithful in this wrong sense face
or with each other
in this nuclear family that this will that this cannot work and I do I mean I love
my father very much as a
child I also and I found out relatively early that he was not faithful that he I
mean he was a
sexual character he couldn't fit into this monogamous system and so I had this
without having
an answer but I had this this this sensation that there is something not to well
organized around
love and sexuality I had this from very early state state on and by the way I do
believe every child
has this because you get you feel it you feel it in the wipes of the family and
then when I was
a teenager I also said to myself I never want to leave a person that I still love
and this was also one of the decisions I made that made my life really complicated
and this was one core thing and the other thing is that I was also as a teenager
it was
clear to me that I don't want to be part of this society it was clear to me that
there is too
much going wrong I don't want to be part and then I was thinking about my
profession what can I
make what profession can I make and the guiding thought was a lot with which
profession and I
not part of the system so and then I ended up studying prehistory because there I
felt okay this
is such a niche 20-30 people in Switzerland that that do this that work on this
this cannot cause a
lot of harm and it's interesting it gives me the opportunity to study who is the
human being
who has the human being in history and when I started to study this decision that
I will not
leave a person when I still love him or her in my case I would track it to man so
I said I
will speak about him made a lot of relation that I was in very complicated because
I didn't want
to leave one but I had another part here some of the new about each other some of
them didn't
be about each other and I I think with the with the intention of not letting go of
love I was
creating a lot of harm also in my surrounding and one of the of my friends but
then was already
 interested in free love but just theoretically so we were he was speaking about it
at time and again
and then guidance got kicked in as it normally does when you have an intensive
question no
and a woman came into our lives that was where were you living in Switzerland in
years
years you were one of the big cities of Switzerland and she said I found a
community
that engages in free sexuality and that they even speak about love this was her
big thing
and I want to go and visit let's go together and my my friend back then by the way
he will come
in a few days really here for one week yes what does it called called called
correct
correct and he said back then I need when we go there he was afraid to go there
and so he said I need some time to decide so we took half an hour and he said yes
okay let's go
there and then we went there and I felt the this was a week and with guests that
they did back then
in the in thousand journey and one of the first the first speech that they learned
back then gave
was it was a speech about a small group being able to change the world and this
was for me
it's that to be answered to all my political struggles because I also was involved
in
fighting for the place where I lived that they don't care 10 out trees that they
don't build
with buildings there we had one meeting with the people that wanted to build here
we were sitting
on one table I went out of this talk say thinking if I continue like this I will
be on the so
cold good side but in a li I will become like them this was for me a very strong
inside also
and so to hear a political concept that you don't you will not win
by fighting the existing system but by setting up a new system was for me a game
change in my life
it really it was there is this beautiful quote by Buckman Sir Fouler not his head
he says
you never change anything by fighting the existing system in order to change the
existing
build a new tool to the existing obsolete and this was for me this we can take you
on this path
and for sure back then also the sexual freedom the truth that was was open there
made me think
well I'm not the only crazy person on this planet I have I found allies that also
wanted to
say yes to love also when it falls more on one press and then the second the
speech was
speech by Robert and he spoke about that we humans are allowed to contact and this
was then
the answer to my second big question in life not so the political question and the
sexual
slash love question in the first weekend they were sort of addressed in a way
where I thought
I knew very quickly that they will be my pass and then I went once more back home
and I went for another then the woman that that was used as to come she went into
the guest
hope then I went to visit her and so I started to have more contact and after I
think half a
 year or so I decided to step in then I made and then as it is when you make
decisions like this
everything opens up now do you back then I had a contract a working contract with
a prehist institute for prehistory and they said we need to renew our contract and
I said oh
thanks god we can speak about it because I would want to renew it so you know this
is what I mean
things it would the past was so clear yeah and since then I'm in and the first
when you ask
about different phases my very first phase was clearly about discovering myself as
a sexual being
in the frame of a group with trust in the frame of a group with a political
purpose so in
a setting that was very the setting was very important for me so I wouldn't
probably
have felt comfortable in a setting where it is just about self development because
I was never
this type of person that I do some self growth so so self growth came with me
always together with a purpose
and then of course I also fell in love so also this first first there was the
experimentation
with sexuality and then love or kept telling hand in hand more or less but the
sexuality experimentation
was very strong and did you meet in yourself in the beginning like jealousy or not
feeling wanted or any of
this now this came much later when I went through phases of this also so but for
me the
important is that when we think of a new culture to get the feeling and the
imprint in our bodies
what it means if we especially we women when we are accepted but also men I mean
we also see it in
the course what it means for men to be sexually accepted this is a huge thing the
who feels this
nobody and if we are not accepted there we will never feel basically accepted and
if we never feel
basically accepted we will never basically accept anybody else so you know it's
one of the very very
important core values that we need to re-iscover self acceptance and this we only
can if we are fully
accepted yeah okay so I bring you back to you and and love and then you fell in
love
mm-hmm it was a beautiful a beautiful past we had together because we were not in
this sense
you know not this butterfly love but it was this we worked together we were in bed
together
and then we started to feel solidarity for each other and then love came into it
so it was a very
natural growth of love and a respect and it was from the beginning a very clear
respect towards
also the sexual freedom of the other partners so this was totally included we
worked amongst
there has been a time when we worked in a team and we had a restaurant in
Switzerland
and you know we were we were also a bit crazy we experimented with a lot of things
so
and this was beautiful to do this together knowing the team with the man that you
love this was really
a beautiful, a beautiful setting and then there came the time where this founding
community was not
 strong anymore really why it was it was in the time short after the whole press
thing happened
against the project so the weather project was very much attacked it was a
controversial project
which is actually a sexuality is a dirty thing and so on and then this was a harsh
time for the
group that carried this project so they needed time to redefine who they are and
so there were
different places the founders went to I believe Mexico but then I don't you know
there was a
place in Switzerland and the place in South Germany still was alive also and in
this time
the person that I was in love with fell in love with another woman which is named
Paul he still is
here he has to partner with her then and this was for me a difficult time because
I didn't feel
protected by the group this is for me the important thing now it was not I was the
youngest I was
the newest all of them were sort of already a family I felt also not really part
of it and I didn't
feel taken care of or really supported with the love it from my side towards him I
felt this is not
taken seriously by him and he and I we later spoke a lot with both ones very
deeply about
this situation and what he then told me is that he back then would have wished
that I
or his picture of mine or his projection to me was that I hold this and I'm there
for
his just Paul and from this just Paul he goes to different women and that he at
any given moment
also can come back again so and I was just not there so if I if it would this
would happen today
I probably would be much more this person that really can be this Paul and
therefore for me this is
also a moment where I think when we want to have healthy love relationships we
need to learn love
with you this is why we need to have love schools so that I know how it was I back
then maybe
third year or so that as I as a 30 year old woman know what a man looks for also I
felt very young
and I'm younger than him what a man looks for in me when he when he wants to
explore the world of love
I was just not there I couldn't imagine I this was not a possible salt pattern for
it was not available as a picture for me for me the only picture available was
that he is more
interested in her and that I'm not so much in and so so my only possibility was to
think
at the moment we will need to go different paths and maybe later we will come
together once more so
this is also a basic thinking that we often have in our project that it can be
that sometimes
love couples need to need to separate for a certain time but as you are together
in one community
with one purpose you always have the possibility to come together again so love is
never lost
it can flourish again when it wants to flourish yeah where you hardworking
I wouldn't say that I was hard for open but I was um
how did I say this kind of feeling a certain mistrust was most there more towards
other beings towards other human beings
 so I was very selective with my trust back then as a result of this story
yeah maybe this is the most the way I can describe it the best
and also to say this also I had other love relationships that were also near to
friendship
partnerships and I was also not wise in this navigation you know I because I
learned by doing
I also created a lot of harm also towards him so so when I would draw a line under
my life
I would say there is a need for people who went through experiences like this that
they
joined forces and that they create spaces where other people were young people can
learn about
about what love is what about love is not and how to take care of love
you said that it is so nice to find a moment where you have guidance in our
community when we
started there have not been all the people except they learn so we were also like
stumbling from failure to failure and learning by mistake you know that's us yeah
and I had a second wave of exploring sexuality
and this wave was very much connected with a political awakening how much the
sexual
the unanswered sexual desire is on in the underground of the whole society so that
there
would not be any sex industry if we would manage as human beings to answer 78% of
our sexual desires
and longings but we we we answer maybe 10 or so and the best case yeah in the best
case yes
the whole rest is unanswered and then tries to find and we hear it now here in the
forums
know what happens with people that don't have the possibility don't have the
opening to
explore the sexuality they then in the best case you stay more or less healthy and
you find your
your daughter in the sex industry which is an abusive industry I know and it is a
very
it is like a hand that needs to be there for our society to exist yeah
so this second wave was very much a wave of this political awareness of this power
that where did it come to like you met it out you read about it or like where did
it come to like
okay it's a really a political thing can you tell me the closest
and wow so really really interesting and amazing actually in the Hebrew society
did you there
a word that is kiddishah which is there's kiddushah which is sacred and kiddishah
which is like
sex worker and there is a play because once there were like priestesses who would
initiate
people into love and into so this is kind of yeah this is kind of known in the
unconscious of
our culture and our religion but there is this thing but also like a more mystical
like
this is not allowed and there is no such thing as sexual initiation and like yeah
but I really
believe in it yeah I believe that if we will have a social culture with where
love's
comes are in integrated we will come back in a way to situations where we have
sacred sexuality
in order to call the rain sacred sexuality in order to invite fertility to a land
when the
seats are out no so these are we are our sexuality is an energy that is present
not only in us it's
 also present in the plants it's life energy yeah so we can reintegrate into life
energy with
when we have conscious sexuality yeah yeah when in the year of service we have a
like two months that we talk about this topic of sexuality and women instructors
are with
the girls and they are like one side to two and I'm like a session we are I
brought like a
text or something and they're like put down the text we want to learn how to get
to an orgasm
we don't know like 18 year olds and then I was like okay now like this and always
after
this these two months of the year they get more healthy like before they are but
in
really in these two months afterwards they're like their bodies are different and
they're yeah so
it's a really resonant with what you're saying oh so okay so you had the second
second
way of dealing with um with the political meaning of sexuality and then I got more
and more
also involved into the political work of our project in the network and into
also back then still also defending our project towards accusations and you
already came back
to living together or still you were divided we were divided but not so much
divided
so we already again had some course of our communities
this was the time where we as a project where one core was in in in the south in
Lanza
Routa and as beautiful island in in the south and where we said we want to put up
an erotic academy
and where we wanted to set up such a love love school and after having had this
for I don't know
for maybe three years or so we said you cannot have a love school that has no
context
this doesn't work and then we said we need to we need to look for a bigger place
and
we need to look for a place where we can build a culture where this erotic academy
is in the center
and where you learn how to be with your love and then you step out into a system
that says
what you learned when you don't step back into the old system so this was then the
birth moment of starting to search for the place that ended up to be Tamera then
the I personally I was still I was doing a guest house back then in south and
Germany
and that some years later I went to to Z to this rather big community in Germany
that still exists
we this was also one of the big places we said back then we want to have a place
in in the south
where we were set up our research center and we want to have a place in Germany
where we
have a have a possibility to communicate to have events to have gatherings and so
so we found a place in Germany and we went there this was 1992 we went there and
one of the difficulties
the mistakes we did back then is we were I think within two or three weeks we were
60 people
so and the growth of this community was just too fast it was not really taking
care of who is the
core who take who carry serious responsibilities who sets up the essays who it was
all the
projections yeah it was too fast too many people so it was a difficult it it was a
difficult start
a difficult start and a difficult moment for off community building and the whole
ways of our of accusations came back because we both this rather big place in
Germany
they then researched who they are and then the whole press thing came again and so
I was working to
speak with the people that wrote those articles or that before they write the
articles to
speak with the press and so this was it was it was it is a harsh hard thing to do
and there it's several you know and there we started to think about setting up a
university and this then was my entry into a line that was present for me until
one or one and
a half years ago and the idea of a university where you say let us make an
educational plan
where all the alternatives that lead to a nonviolent culture have a right to be
taught to
be to be studied to be put together into one picture and before that I was I had
one of my
let's say my lost times also where I was really lost within the project
and there what I decided back then when I was lost in the project I always have to
sink myself back into the purpose I needed to always ask myself okay I'm lost I
dislike what happens what would I do if I would do something else what what can I
do better what
what serves my purpose more and I always came back that my purpose my right to
decision I made was
right so I always came back you stay you stand up for what you want so it was
always they
it was about always a deepening back then I again was in such a questioning phase
and
what did you question the whole my whole life situation it was back then got clear
that I will
for quite a long time not be together with the one that I've the the man that I
fell in love with
for power he will be in another place his partner his new partner went out of sex
so it
was very well my love network was very scattered I had I had not this this moment
of yes I
want to build this the community was also rather scattered it doesn't feel so safe
anymore it
I just I needed a lot of time to sink myself into yes this this group is together
because we
have the same purpose I I had the feeling we lost a bit the purpose and and but
then they
alone and per bed they also were not in sex so we were also a group of people
without clear
leadership without clear ethical principles and so what saved me back then was a
woman which is
I was at this point where I said okay I will stay I will somehow do my service
somewhere where I
just do what needs to be done then I was first I believe in the kitchen and was
doing what
we needed to be done there and then she said to me you can work in the university
team if you
do the whole administrative job and I liked the woman I liked the idea of the
university and I liked
to be there and just to have a position of service you know where you don't decide
anything where
but where you know this I have to do when I do this then I support an idea that I
still stand
 behind although I myself and not in my power at the moment so this experience of
be going into full
service was a very important experience for me and then there was this moment
where again guidance
kicked in with a researcher that I wanted to contact so I started to to name my
impulses to say
listen I would like to to invite this person and to invite that person and where I
started to
be part of the of the I started to co-shade or who was invited and so I started to
build a network
of researchers which ended up at the end to be the technology project so this
whole I could
I could go back to my love for research about what is the world in what world are
we living in
in this wonder what what is water what is energy what is how how do we is the
research that
shows us that we can communicate with plants actually and all of these these in
term there is a
very specific work for this where it's not science but it is at the edge of
science these people
that are on the edge of science but scientific scientifically working people they
are they
they interested we a lot so we had a lot of interesting guests then and this was
then the start
of what became a technology project and the research of how does an energy supply
system looks
like for instance where we don't exploit resources where we don't destroy the
Earth but where we are
in resonance where we don't break resistances but where we are in resonance and
through resonance
gains electricity or gain energy so this was then my whole other wave that ticked
in that also lasted a long time
and you also asked in in deck there started the thing you asked also about
leadership there
started the moment where I started to become to a part of leading teams of leading
a part of
a step into a leading position and I think the main importance of being in a
leading team
what I also learned painfully sometimes is that you need to be in a team where you
can trust
that you get the mirror that you need to get this is I think more is I cannot say
to what needs
to be in place in order for a healthy leadership to occur you need to be a team or
you need to have
a ring of supporters that gave you the feedback that you need to have
and of course need you not need to make yourself ready to receive the feedback
do you like to win? I do have a clear calling to it
I have a clear calling to it when there is a more or less coherent field
when there is no coherent backwind then I don't like it because then too much of
or long decisions need to be made and this I don't like but sometimes this is also
the responsibility of a person who steps into leadership that you need to know
which decision
you need to take and then you also to take the decision it's also courage that you
need
and there have been many things where I didn't at the end it turned out that I was
not embedded
in this system of feedback so I had also painful experiences within the
impositions
but I also had good experiences a lot of joy it's also nice to move things I'm
also
a manifesto now and if I cannot manifest I get crazy so to do to support things
are also
or not to support to manifest things is also a leading quality you know
so I lost a bit my threat
I got very tired you have what do you want to know?
and maybe like I tell you the questions I have left and say what you want to
one is like in what after you came to the project like how did you see what were
your
love pictures toward your life like did you want to be have a partner or other
tour like
what did you want her life in the love and family and all that sense to be and
also what I
asked you at the bar about how you see the this also how you see the connection of
family and
community and the tension between personal love and community love which this is
really the
heart of the tension for my community right now and the third is like what are the
difficulties
you see to the male and now because I hear a lot of talk about transition
transition blah blah
blind like I am really interested to know how what you see as the core of these
matters
of the difficulties now to my eyes meeting because you can see like I think a lot
of people in
my movement also can say this is happening this is happening they see what is
happening
but as to what is like the core movement that moves these symptoms so that I'm
interested to
know how you see this so also big questions and I'm sorry it could really big
questions I would
like to dive a bit into this family community thing because I feel this is a
really core so
let's I speak now only from the philosophical level so from the guys to the level
the
healed picture the picture would be that the community is there and that the
community is also
the vessel for the left couples that when they have difficulties that they know
they have friends
around that they can go to so that they are embedded in the in the community and
that also the
children are embedded in the community so that it is yes the children have mama
and papatis is
very important and they also have others that are friends to them that are
important to them our
children that who are in our community you can come in oh okay
when when they were like three four five years old I was taking care of them often
they would sit in the evening for instance before they would fall asleep they
would sit in front
of jazan's say listen I have a mother I have a father I have a second mother and
even I have
a third mother and I have a friend and I have an art let's say and then the other
would say yeah
I have a mother I have a father I have two friends and so they would compete with
their
love network and their mother and father always is a very important part but there
are also
others and so and to encourage to find a system where this can be where this is
encouraged to
 happen and I think a very important part of this is that the community agrees that
it's not
only the business of the couple when they want to become parents but it's also the
business of
the community and that the couple and the community agree that that they co-
educate the children
and that they also agree that they will offer the children community times where
they live in
community also without mother and father without all these these home and cozy
feeling that
also sometimes can be a cage so that they also can go out of all this and just be
together with each
other and get to know each other and also get to know other adults so this is what
we would call
a community of second order so the family is the community of first order it's the
small unit
around the children and the community of second order is the big unity around the
children
and what makes it so difficult is that when you have a couple you have you have
the love issue
in the center and with this comes the risk to protect with this comes to fear with
this comes
if you cannot if you don't address this openly if you don't have a common purpose
to say
let us find systems where love is not connected to fear anymore but this is not
the purpose
then the family is has the aura has an inbuilt thing of fear in it yeah it is just
systemically like this I feel also about love couples that they have fear from the
world like
this is us and all my love and all my elves is coming here and like the love like
flows
to this place and not to this place yeah yeah I don't know why yeah because this
is history that
is it's history and it's also our conditioning and it's our choice if we want to
step out of this
history this is a huge decision and you are here in the research that we do here
in the matter to set up
different systems yeah I think in my community like a lot of people say
everyone when there are 20 to 30 say we want to build something that is not based
on couples there
is couple love in it but when you see the shape you don't see couples that love is
a thing that
is and then there is I think there is a lot of tension that grows and grows
between love
couples and because as we grow older then it also comes with resources and this
one has a rich
partner and this one has a not rich partner and like the connection between money
and love
is an asset kind of in the world and so I feel that we have we're really kind of
mad at
person I love in our community but at the same time everyone is having
relationships and
there is a lot of guilt around it because we don't know like we feel that the air
was is like
people are flowing it into this place and not into the community space and like
it's uh
it's not it's not going to be mad at come you out of couple love because it's one
of our
deepest longings to have the partner and so it is rather how to how can we
integrate it and
how can we free it from here so that it doesn't have to be this is protected space
where you
protected from the others like you never did you ever feel like you see our
friends like we're
all in this community together and then suddenly they disappear because they love
someone more
so yes yes this is a very this is this happens always and this is because with the
couple
love let's say the couple love let's take this term for now when it comes to a
certain
intimacy and to a certain density also there is also an energy that wants to
deepen and want to be
together and if this is held well in a community then you say yes go for it do it
do it
and when this phase is over then also come back to us come back to the community
so you say like say yes to this deepening yes told say yes to love wherever it is
this is
up a very important thing and when you say hold it well what do you mean help that
piece
things can be spoken that that they are hold the community still no hold community
around
it this also needs holding and energy yeah I think it's really hard to really hard
to find the
place inside to hold it because it feels so threatening to the community because
we don't really
have something it's all other time fragile what we're doing it can break apart and
like we don't
even have any building that is ours and like so everything is on like the people
and the connection
between them and then because this shape of families is so threatening the
existence of the
community so it's like really you know like I feel I I think I need to change also
my
paradigm is because it's not helping but I see like people wanting to go back to
an
normality through this yes like there is our like our work and our this and our
now okay here we're
a radical but also like all the time and energy draining toward and also we want
to be normal
and we want to go to our parents with the kids and everyone dresses nice and all
like this and so
I'm like I think my anger or the people who are angry are like you just want to be
normal
so just go be normal yeah yeah yeah this is and this is in German we would say
this is you
empty the bass with the child in it you you have to be you have to come nuanced
there so you
have to see where it is love and where it is where this love attracts the old
field this is
it is clear that the couple love has a huge field of privacy of possessiveness of
of
exclusiveness of all of this and still the core of it is love and to honor the
love that is there
now this is a this is a delicate topic it is I mean it really is but with anger I
don't
believe that you that you changed your things yeah it's more like backlashes yeah
or people feeling guilty yeah and feel all of it makes more assistance I don't
want to show you
 makes more you more separate the family and community yeah and did you have like a
practice it I
know you have like the phone and the transparency and the the identification do
you have like
practices that you felt like really strengthened like the community like you can
have the family
because the community fabric is really strong like how I see it couple has a lot
of power
because super deep things happened there and then like you said about the systems
that's not
fight this deepness but say how does vulnerability and deepness and intimacy
happen in another
place and it will give this place also a lot of power and relevance for it if you
can share the
depths of the of what happens in the partnership with the group then that this
empowers the whole group
yeah some this is this is for instance one thing yeah
and it was not like conflict well in our life in Tamera it will be couples there
won't
know the couples he never was questioned but the that's the ethics that these
couples follow
this was okay this also changed through the during now in the evolution of our
project we have
never been so company as we are now this was an informal time not so much like
this
and I do believe the question of raising children together can also be a huge
attractive for community and spaces when you consciously say as a group these are
our children
then then this also brings together things and doesn't separate them yeah
and other than that I would maybe I have ideas tomorrow so now and okay
and can you say also about like in your experience what love pictures did you
arrive that are good for you
so at the moment I don't have a partner so I live with lovers
so it is important for me to say yes to my sexuality although I don't have a
partner so to not
couple this that I only have sexuality in a partnership but no I'm a sexual woman
also
so let's beyond every partner question when I was younger I always have the idea
that I will
have two or three partners and they stayed in tap and then there was a moment
where I thought maybe
maybe it is just also not meant to be mine to be too living a partnership so I I
do believe that
we that we very often too quickly want to define our our lifestyle when they can
have this
question whether I meant for partnership this was this was probably around when I
was 50
and I looked back and I saw no if never really worked out and it was not this
passion where you
fight for things or so was rather not happening and then I was questioning myself
and I took time
to question myself maybe it's it's really not for me maybe let's say maybe it was
now for 15 years
not for me maybe they will come at time very to get for me I don't know so the
love picture for me
that the thing that is good for me is when I really ask myself what is love and
there were
love there to say yes to and there were is not love not for all and from this
things it will
 and I know also that I have points in my life where I don't fully live what I now
say you know
where I have still fear is where I don't act into my full radicality like what
like where I
wouldn't I don't go fully into for instance with where I don't go fully into what
I would I have
said I said I have sexual partners and I have especially one that I really am
really I like to be
together with him but I don't have any nearly no talks with him and to go there
and say I want
that we develop a culture where we also have talks you know this this for instance
would be a
stretch into what I want and I don't do it yet because of mistakes that I did or
that we did
together and whereas in my knowledge not yet the time for me to do this again so
this is what I mean
there there are places in my life that where I know I'm not the most radical I'm
not so radical
as I know that I could be but I think this is also a thing but about the love
teacher and it's
clear that when I started off my love picture was very much also to be to have a
friend so
today it is much easier for me to think in love networks than it has been for me
in the beginning
because also myself except in school a lot I think this is really a key collection
there
if you accept yourself then you are not so afraid that somebody that a person who
you are with
when he or she goes with another person then you know who you are and that this
person comes back to you
this is clear a lot of fear is then out of the system when self acceptance really
is in place
and also the trust into life that it will evolve in a way that is good for you
that guidance is
there also in love so as I say it evolved into me not having a partner and I
believe that for the
last 15 years this was also good yeah and what what today would you say because
you say the
core question for you is like what is love so what today do you feel is love
wherever I can feel the beauty of the other person and wherever I can feel this
impulse to
want to help this other person all of these also also towards animals also towards
nature
that this is love for me or there is this we had also in our project we had a long
time where we
didn't say love we said this is a word that causes so much misunderstanding so we
replaced it with solidarity
very socialist we also say solidarity and okay so maybe I will ask you the last
question
is what I asked about how you see the core difficulties or the core of the
difficulties in
tomorrow today the project for me the difficult piece that we have is is our
symptoms of two things I feel one is
that we as the founding generation they're having that they're having things that
we do that
we didn't really pass on to the next generation there was also in Tamera this
moment of fast
growth where we didn't really take care that the inner values that we have you
know community
 experiences radical community experiences that we didn't pass them on to the next
generation
and the other thing is for me also that like they didn't experience the practices
that you
did yeah they didn't experience it with with this radicality that we did
I mean when I came to the project we had one guest who it was clear this is mixed
and there is
sets always possible and you were never sure who is coming next to you and so and
the next
the next the other thing for me is also the sideguys changed so drastically what
is right sideguys
the spirit of the times the atmosphere of the times they are they are totally
different
and at the moment I have the feeling the pendulum went into a direction where it
is so
how do you say so pendulum is time no it is this when you have this it makes like
you know when you go whenever you are in a weak place or whenever you are hurt or
whenever you are
you don't feel safe you are in the center of the attention so there is a pattern
at the moment
in Western society that gives this being hurt being sick having a trauma being
traumatized all these
things a huge amount of attention and the perpetrators are out of the picture very
often they are
excluded of our attention and I feel
how to say this in a way it is good that it is like this because then things get
looked at
and it is also difficult because things get overlooked that over looked at over
blown up in a way
that we forget that we are hugely privileged that we can eat here three times a
day that
I mean of course I have my trauma and of course I'm treated here and there but
this doesn't
this doesn't cause me not to work for instance and not to continue to do my
research
you know the scale the resilience yeah and the scale of importance is for me out
of balance for me so
often to go back to my commitment to the project has been a healing step and
because then my problems
had a context and then I could say okay maybe I work on the university and my love
problem is not solved directly by this but I work for a world where on the long
term love problems
will be solved and this political thinking about your own personality this is
really far away I
feel from from here from here or from this is in the side guys yes in tomorrow
also also yes also
this came a lot in this came a lot in and combined the not really taking care of
handing over
the community thing also then having children the same as you say they're having
children and having
the family and not always having the strengths to have the children as a community
together so this was also
helping to decentralize our effort do you feel like the not passing on things
because when I see
what you bring to the community course like the foam and the guys this is for me
like these two tools
like surrounding community forever like there there will be highs and lows of
course but there is no
failure or success there is like a process process yeah but so why didn't why
wasn't there the
implementation implementation yes of of these tools because like why isn't there
like more
four phones and groups and like yeah I think in my group we have one their way
guys take our
for the past 15 years and if we wouldn't have we couldn't do anything really so
any
tired like people are like wow but and someone has to build it each time and as we
get older it
has to be more complex in order to be relevant but you know just sticking to this
tradition no matter
what no matter what so and I see like this is the most amazing thing I've met here
like you know
how to totally like make community and communal growth so why do you think the
implementation
went down more these are questions I asked myself a lot again and again but it is
like this
it was like this we don't have a daily forum for instance so we invest into things
in the community
because that we don't have in our community anymore and it has to do with uh
I don't know I don't know really many many soft lines but nothing really goes to
the end
where I think yes this was it happy just the loads of hope also mistrust between
generations
and these coherence about some basic ideas so all of these about vision kind of
yeah
all of these gave a mix that made it made it that we for instance stopped doing
forum
or very often not really conscious decisions but rather that is sneaking in things
other things are more important for a while and then you forget about the
importance of forum
and then and so on and now are you optimistic about the process that is now
happening?
I'm at the moment rather optimistic yes so well I'm not fully optimistic but I
think
I think they don't also say it I don't think that Tamira will break apart
I don't know where the Tamira will go to the depths it had when I joined this I
don't know
but I don't think that it will break apart
also because they learn was really also he was investing a lot of guys into into
the our community building
or he was an important factor for our guys they're trading and so yeah so maybe I
say before
I say thank you that I also told them out in this when I talk to him and I talk to
him about maybe
like cooperation or I don't know like feeling the network which is really
important to hope
I think like essential hope and I'm like so that I feel that Tamira is what Tamira
says
you are doing that you are creating a film so it's materially strictly the truth
like I can say about myself and people in my movement like the head of my movement
called me
yesterday and said are you writing everything down and like we are so ready to
take in things and to learn
and so like I think or even you know as for me as a woman of seeing that
monogamous relationship
is not working out for me and then learning about Tamira so I think this is kind
of what came up
for me yesterday when they on talk that we have coined this thing in Israel that's
non failure
wonderful non failure which is how we call the Quitim and another a disayonci non-
shahra experiment
that has not failed because we can never succeed but our experience and so I
really want to say like
I think I would really wish for Tamira right to like give yourself all you need to
continue to
experiment because really really it is not only yours so it's so like mine and so
a lot of
movements in Israel and you know to be here in the war and know that people are
talking about peace
which is just like talk I haven't heard for all my life since 95 kind of it's like
it's
actually actually so so relevant and then I want to like like send Tamira ahead of
me so I can
but it's not only your responsibility of course like it's ours too but just so you
know that
it's so impacting the the community network of the world and like what you said
about the
depth of the experimentation that was in Tamira I think some places in the world
have to go
back to this depth I think also you also Tamira also and I want to in my community
because
I think only from this depth new you know things will be born and I thought I
one thought that Kim's comes up for me is that I felt through the talks with the
people
and that I talked to so one is like also to say pioneering this stage like you
said about
the mature sexuality so say there is a pioneering that now needs to be done on a
intergenerational communities that the Kim would see man Israel this is where they
broke up
they couldn't make the transition after the third generation the third generation
broke up everything
and how to like to pioneer and give the world information about how a visionary
community can
like make a sustainable bit so I like really important for me and also I think
like in our
in our movement when every time there is a problem I always say like or we always
say like what
what is going on with the groups like we see a big thing in the movement and we're
like the
really little groups of the seven nine people what is is there good work going on
there and like
and also because in our movement there is a guide for each group so this is
actually
the initiation of the young people into holding the guys because each of them have
to guide a
younger group and hold the guys for them and then so they kind of have to embody
it so it just came
up for me like for the man about the like groups and having people to have to they
are group people have to
guide like I think it's really good that Jessica has to give the speeches and the
things and that
because they have to embody it and yeah so just yeah and I think you're the most
amazing woman in the
world really really really really I've never so much felt this thank you a lot now
we close
thank you and you have a break thank you very much