01:13:17:08 - 01:13:53:06

Unknown
Yeah, I'm just. Yeah. Thank you. Just, let's see if they really does.
Yeah. Just say a couple of things. Just, testing. Testing. One. Two.
Three. Yes. Awesome. Thanks for doing this again. It's okay. Second time
this time. So. Right. Some overrated stuff, which is quite nice as well.
when did you. When did you start preaching more seriously?

01:13:53:08 - 01:14:23:05
Unknown
When did I start? So I would have been. It would have been. 1997, 1998
around then. So I'd have been just turning 17. just stopped swimming, and
I was looking for another challenge in swimming, but different to, like,
I just. Yeah, I wasn't that great as a swimmer, so I, I went into a
coaching where it was actually swimming teaching to start with.

01:14:23:07 - 01:14:49:06
Unknown
and it just evolved from that point. It's just, What when when did you
first know what was when was the first time you like, existed? Yeah,
yeah. So I started at Wickham in September 2012. having been coaching all
that time leading up to it. the key club was that then was a club called
Maxwell.

01:14:49:08 - 01:15:08:11
Unknown
I started in 2012 at Wickham and one of my previous assistant coaches
that was at Maxwell. had already started at Wickham. Was the assistant
coach, a guy called Craig Oliver. And, within a couple of weeks, I was,
you know, obviously asking around, like, what? Swimmers are in different
squads. Give me more of a feel for things.

01:15:08:13 - 01:15:35:09
Unknown
Cameron was one of the swimmers that he identified that was training
predominantly, actually, at one of our smaller sites in Princes
Risborough. and basically said, there's this young lad that is very
small, but could be really good. let me know what you think of him. And
that's kind of where he started, really. Okay, so so all the coaches
pointed out was when you first like, yeah.

01:15:35:11 - 01:15:58:23
Unknown
what were your first impressions of him when he came into school? In my
squad? Well, when you started, like, when I first like coaching him. So
he was in the squad before me, and obviously I was interacting with him
during that time anyway. but. And during that time, I could start to see,
like, his character. good summers don't just have, you know, the natural
ability in the pool.

01:15:59:01 - 01:16:15:20
Unknown
Good swimmers are those which have the right character and those that
commit, those that work hard, those, you can see values in action. And,
you can see that with Cameron. You can see that he wanted to do it for a
start. You can see that he was, a big team player, and you could see that
he just loved it.
01:16:15:22 - 01:16:36:13
Unknown
And so you can see this sort of, like, character emerging. and so, yeah,
that's that was like my first sort of like, feel for him as a person. You
could say. All right. when you first joined the club, in the interview, I
did not hear you describe to you saw you as the big bad boss,

01:16:36:15 - 01:16:59:12
Unknown
Was it, as interesting that you said that? I guess anybody that goes
into, like, a leadership responsibility, your know, people that, or
certainly swimmers in young swimmers will always, like, potentially fear
the, the, the person with the power or the person at the top is a bit
like when you're in school and you have your normal class teacher.

01:16:59:14 - 01:17:19:14
Unknown
and it's a class, each says you need to go and see the head teacher.
There's always a little bit of, oh, that's like somebody with more power
or somebody that's in more responsibility. So, you know, it's kind of
expected a bit. And I think a lot of swimmers, tend to, be a bit scared
to talk to me initially in the younger squads in the club.

01:17:19:16 - 01:17:53:14
Unknown
but you get that in any club, that's not just me, that's just the role.
And, but I would like to think that when they do have interactions with
me, they quickly realize I'm not big, bad and scary. and, did you ever
think that this little small town would grow to be, after the first
couple of years of seeing him as, like, oh, back then, he'd have been
like nine, ten, 11, that sort of age.

01:17:53:16 - 01:18:16:20
Unknown
I could I started to get a good feel that he could be good. he it's all
about the way he, floats and glides through the water. The efficiency
that he had even then as a younger lads, added into what I was starting
to see of him as a person and a character, and his family around him.

01:18:16:21 - 01:18:37:01
Unknown
so I started to get a good feel for that. I would say that really, it
wasn't until he was, like, more like in that sort of like 12 to 14
bracket where I started to be like, no, this like, could be really good,
but it's going to take time. Because he was still very young. and he
developed a lot later in terms of going through adolescence.

01:18:37:03 - 01:19:05:07
Unknown
so there's always a case of him focusing on, bettering himself, knowing
that his peers, as he got older, were well ahead of him in their
development. I had students even. He was really competitive. I mean,
like, if you want to do well in swimming, in any sport, you got to be
competitive. You got to, like, have the desire to win and desire to
achieve and desire to to want to fight for that.

01:19:05:13 - 01:19:24:14
Unknown
And so yeah, he he was one of the lads, one of the boys that wanted to of
course he wanted to win. He wanted to do well. He wanted to achieve and
actually because quite often when he was younger, he struggled to do
that. A lot of his peers were beating him. I remember the first national
championships he went to, from memory.

01:19:24:14 - 01:19:43:07
Unknown
It was at 1500. he barely featured on the program. And he was really
gutted about it. I don't think he even paid for a young lad to go to
nationals as a 12 year old, I think back then and do 15 under freestyle
and not PB. That was quite a disappointing thing for him and he was
gutted.

01:19:43:09 - 01:20:03:10
Unknown
He wanted to succeed and you can see that in him. But I think the fact
that he was ranking so low in terms of a national setting, and then he
had a lot of his peers beating him in all events, kept him hungry and
kept him, recognizing the good things could happen, although maybe he
wasn't fully aware of that.

01:20:03:12 - 01:20:45:12
Unknown
It took a lot of coaching to get him to recognize that his success might
not be right now. Do you have a what? Okay. Just change that question
about what was some of his greatest achievements do you think he saw?
Maybe that was like a most immensely like title. Is that like his, I
think it was the over the years of his consistency to training and
importantly, taking on board advice and coaching around skill development
and kick.

01:20:45:14 - 01:21:04:14
Unknown
he was always focusing on holding underwater work, which you can see in
his races to this day. He was always focusing on, the technical aspects
and importantly, he he always took that whilst he was getting knocked
back by his peer group, beating him all the time. He just took that as a
I need to get better.

01:21:04:14 - 01:21:24:13
Unknown
And he kept working hard. So what I'm trying to get across there is he
kept turning up, he kept showing up. He kept working hard. He kept
working on himself. About consistency has paid off. so I think that's
really the greatest thing I can really say is that ability to just get
knocked down, stand up again, get knocked down and get stamina, stand up
again.

01:21:24:14 - 01:21:48:12
Unknown
Had so many conversations of those after key points each year with
Cameron around, being in that mindset of you're going to be okay, you're
going to be okay. And it got to that sort of like 16, 17 age group and
was 16, sorry. Where he then he obviously started growing. And the
training he had, had started to, evolve further.
01:21:48:14 - 01:22:08:07
Unknown
And that's when that tipping point happened. Right? He then actually
started to win things. And in fact, people started to turn around to me
and go, Crikey, what have you done with cam? Broke up my career. Well,
he's not really done anything. He's just now developing at his rate as
he's an individual. Whereas other swimmers that may have happened
earlier.

01:22:08:09 - 01:22:26:09
Unknown
so I would say that I'd also say that, like a lot of our swimmers live in
the local area and whilst Cameron is in the local area, his family live
in move. Yeah, just on the outskirts of, Highway Cam as a town. He goes
to school in another town, which is a good sort of 60 miles away from
Wickham itself.

01:22:26:11 - 01:22:45:02
Unknown
And so he was always making sure that, he was on time, you know, like he
would maximize his time around swimming. And you see a lot of swimmers
and I see a lot of swimmers over the years where they might be coming
late from school, but you can see that there. Oh, well, I'm like and they
just walk on poolside and then they get in when I feel like it.

01:22:45:02 - 01:23:10:09
Unknown
You know, was Cameron was like, you never you'd always see him like
running, like slow running, you know what I mean? But he was always I
purpose. I've got to be somewhere. I've got to be somewhere. And he was
never wasting his time. He was making use of his time. so he might
actually walk through the door after some people, but he'd actually be in
the pool before them because he made use of getting changed quickly,
going to the toilet, doing his people, and getting in and using every
minute he has.

01:23:10:11 - 01:23:39:09
Unknown
Whereas other people that may live closer maybe weren't as focused as in
on that aspect. how would you think he rescued them? Was it like a trick
question? Was it great? I wouldn't say it was quick. I would say it was.
I don't like the terminology pathway because it kind of like, assumes
everyone's on this just upward trajectory in terms of you're going to go
into this school and you're going to go into that school.

01:23:39:10 - 01:23:55:17
Unknown
That's going to happen, and this is going to happen, and then you're
going to become an Olympian. It doesn't happen like that. but if we were
to refer to it in that pathway term, I mean, it was actually as you'd
expect, he went from one of the junior schools into, the lower
performance hall, which is intermediate performance.

01:23:55:17 - 01:24:26:02
Unknown
And then he went into, my senior performance group. So that was quite a
traditional approach in terms of who did progress through the squads
correctly in the in the pathway setting. I think it's so much falls when.
Swimmer trials in 100 back. disappointing. I feel that, this happened to
a lot of swimmers. I feel that, there's, there's many aspects, isn't
there?

01:24:26:02 - 01:24:46:12
Unknown
There's the physiology or and the taper in the training meeting into that
event. I think when you're actually there. it's the psychology of the
event. Okay. And actually, I feel like with Cameron, like he, he wasn't
really himself in the heat. and obviously I don't directly coach him
right now. Jamie has coached in bath. but but obviously I've got to tell
you more around that.

01:24:46:17 - 01:25:05:07
Unknown
But certainly, like from the conversations where you have at trials, you
can see that, Cameron just wasn't himself. He wasn't doing what Cameron
would normally do. And and you can think that into probably perceived
pressure. you could make that into his first proper Olympic trials.
There's so many things that you could throw into the mix that.

01:25:05:13 - 01:25:26:14
Unknown
But actually, just because he's trained so well and so hard for so long
and some of the best training he's done in the last three years,
actually, when it gets to it, you have to be emotionally and physically
prepared in what's called that arena setting, where everything comes down
to that race at that time. And that, is a really hard thing to do.

01:25:26:15 - 01:25:51:03
Unknown
until you've gone through that process as a swimmer and coach, I don't
think people can fully rationalize and realize what that means. how do
you think this is its first Olympic trials? How do you think it's kind of
his career athlete. Yeah. so it was his first Olympic trials. I should
have said sorry. I think that lockdown period actually allowed him to
grow.

01:25:51:05 - 01:26:21:17
Unknown
It was during that lockdown period where, I was fortunate enough he was
he was in year 13 at that point and already achieved some great success
with me. Unfortunately for him, it was the realization where we we are
believing that, the end of year 12, where he became British national
champion and turned your back, we were on the gold path and and focusing
towards European junior qualification, European junior medal prospects
and working towards that goal that was obviously taken away from him.

01:26:21:17 - 01:26:39:17
Unknown
But it wasn't just from him. It was everyone at that period of time. and
that's disappointing. But I feel like it kind of kept him hungry. he, he
never had a selection to a team before, so it wasn't like he was like
losing out again. It was just like, it's just standard. I've not had
anything and I've still got nothing.

01:26:39:22 - 01:27:04:16
Unknown
You know? so whilst it's still disappointing, it, it was just like, well,
I've always had disappointments. I think one of the, the things
reflecting back as a coach on that Covid period, I was engaging with my
squad at the time, which Cameron was in until I passed them on to bath,
National Center. I was talking to those swimmers, like, more than, like
once, twice a week, personally, let alone in, like, a squad setting.

01:27:04:16 - 01:27:23:10
Unknown
So they'd have their regular training, which we'd do over zoom and then
have other things which they'd be given in that week. But then I would
actually then have 1 to 1 meetings with all of my swimmers each week. a
certain swimmers more than once, if they were struggling or needed more
support. And so, you know, Cameron was a regular feature in that.

01:27:23:15 - 01:27:47:06
Unknown
And so I feel like he actually grew as an individual during that time. He
became really resilient. he was so consistent and hardworking in the
training that he was doing. so that when he, he was able to start
training at bath slightly before the, the lockdowns are fully ended, in
the performance setting that they had, that he was in a really good
place.

01:27:47:08 - 01:27:51:20
Unknown
Do you think what was a good choice for him go?

01:27:51:22 - 01:28:11:20
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like every swimmer has got to, make the right
choice for them. So, you know, whilst we have, a small uni offering here
at working with the new Bucks University we have down the road. that's
not right for everyone. And certainly if you're very academic, you do
need some other challenges at different universities.

01:28:11:22 - 01:28:33:09
Unknown
at one point I remember sitting in the office behind you, Tom and I was
sitting in there with Cameron and his parents. He'd been offered a place,
Oxford University, to study mechanical engineering. And that was the
realization where I was like, guys, cam, you're gonna have to decline
this if you want to be successful in so many, declining a space at
university is not something you do like by bike.

01:28:33:11 - 01:29:04:21
Unknown
Yeah. And that takes some consideration because that's quite a there's,
prestigious opportunity to, to seize. but the next best option that cam
felt was in terms of the academic side of things, well, as class itself
as it made sense, because if that's the next, next best academic
opportunity other than Oxford University with a British swimming national
center, with the coaching staff they have and have at the time, it was
just the right the right place and the right thing for him to do.

01:29:04:23 - 01:29:15:16
Unknown
finally. And one was how would you describe how when he was younger, how
one was.

01:29:15:18 - 01:29:29:19
Unknown
Oh, my. Edit this time it's. I need to think now. Yeah. One word. You can
do that. Yeah. Yeah. Dude.

01:29:29:20 - 01:29:35:04
Unknown
Which sums him up. When? When he was younger, too. And now.

01:29:35:06 - 01:29:40:14
Unknown
What you can do in to us when? When he was in California.

01:29:40:16 - 01:29:55:14
Unknown
That's pretty hard. One word.

01:29:55:16 - 01:30:10:02
Unknown
You definitely gonna need to edit this, one word to describe. And there's
so many words in my head. What's. Find one?

01:30:10:03 - 01:30:34:01
Unknown
Okay, I'll ask that question again. Okay. In one was how we described how
we use overlap. I'm just. I'm not engaged. And what I mean by engaged,
because that's quite a random word, is he was engaged in his schooling.
He was engaged with his conversations with coaches. He was engaged with
how he communicates and had a laugh with his friends.

01:30:34:03 - 01:30:57:05
Unknown
He was engaged with turning up on time and being positive. He was engaged
on the skill sets. He was engaged relentlessly on the hard sets. He was
engaged in, turning the tide and and fighting back. When he went through
disappointment, he was engaged with, everything. So I think invite
engaged is really important. and that sums him up.

01:30:57:05 - 01:31:17:01
Unknown
In that time, he was engaged with what was asked of him. Okay, that's
enough to answer my questions. Okay. So anything you want to ask me?
Gangs in samurai. I think I think I've lost everything.

01:31:17:03 - 01:31:40:23
Unknown
Let me go back to, how competitive he was. And so did I. So when you join
the company, you see that competitiveness was not very star, was not
something that you go up to. So Kevin's competitiveness, he he is
naturally a competitive person. but you become more competitive the more
you race and the more opportunities you're presented with.

01:31:41:01 - 01:32:00:17
Unknown
And I think with Cameron, once he started to learn how to become
competitive, that has evolved and has made him into the fiercely
competitive person that he is, not just in racing but in training. So,
example, when I saw him in the younger days and he's like, 11 1213
period, he was competitive in the training pool.

01:32:00:17 - 01:32:24:08
Unknown
He wanted to be one of the better ones in the training sets. I remember
just before I moved him into my top group, I remember seeing him being
competitive and trying to outdo him as in the top three. and that's one
of the sort of like things we put across in the team all the time. It's
like, if you want to place in that top three four, you want to want to,
want to be considered for that, then?

01:32:24:10 - 01:32:48:14
Unknown
Well, if anybody has any position, you should always aspire and train to
be better than them. So with that turning up and doing x, y, you need to
turn up and do that better. and so he was one of those little segments
which always look to do things better than people that were older than
him. and so, yeah, I think, I think for him competitive, his competitive
competitive nature is within him.

01:32:48:20 - 01:33:09:10
Unknown
So like and it but it was enhanced and developed further within the
program that we have. So if you think about Q three. For that sure. Ten
minutes, whatever it was, you

01:33:09:12 - 01:33:17:01
Unknown
I think we were running on 15ft. Yeah. Okay. So take you down. Yeah.
That's it.

01:33:17:02 - 01:33:33:02
Unknown
It's just awesome. Right? So this will be the next outfit. Step into, a
timeline. Totally change in other states. You just have to come.

01:33:33:04 - 01:33:34:08
Unknown
Yeah.