Superman and Lois Season 4

SUPERMAN AND LOIS SEASON 4 (2024)
SUPERMAN & LOIS Season 4 Moves To A New Night As The CW Announces

Full 2024/2025 Fall Schedule
The CW has announced its full 2024/2025 Fall schedule, revealing that
Superman & Lois is moving to a new night for its fourth and final season. Why
the change? You can find that out after the jump...
News
By JoshWilding –
May 16, 2024
Source: The Hollywood Reporter
It's been nearly a year since we last saw the Man of Steel on our screens, but
The CW has confirmed today that Superman & Lois returns for its fourth and
final season this fall.
The show will be part of the network's 2024 - 2025 schedule and is one of only
a handful of scripted series set to air over that period (a result of Nexstar
acquiring The CW and moving away from pricey dramas).
While we don't have a specific premiere date, we can confirm Superman & Lois
is moving from Tuesday nights to Thursday nights. That's quite a departure
seeing as its first three seasons aired on a Tuesday, but the reason for the
change is The CW's acquisition of WWE NXT.
That takes a two-hour timeslot on Tuesdays, leaving no room for the iconic DC
Comics character.
Brad Schwartz, President of entertainment for The CW, recently promised that
the long-delayed season 4 "[is] going to blow your minds," and put the long wait
down to the show's lengthy post-production process. "I am not kidding, this
season is going to be one of the best shows on TV. I watched the first episode
last night, and it’s gonna make you cry. It’s amazing."
"Because of all the special effects, it could be ready for summer, [but] we feel
like it would be wasted in the summer. So let’s put it in the fall where we can sell
it in the Upfront [and] really, really talk about it."
Superman & Lois ends with its fourth season to make way for DC Studios and
James Gunn's Superman reboot. Moving forward, the plan is for all DC TV
shows to fall under the DCU umbrella, with the odd Elseworlds exception (such
as The Penguin).
The premise of Superman & Lois diverges slightly from traditional Superman
stories by focusing more on the family dynamic between Clark, Lois, and their
teenage sons, Jonathan and Jordan Kent. The series explores how Clark
balances his duties as Superman with his obligations as a husband and father,
all while living in the small town of Smallville.
Here's The CW's full 24/25 Fall lineup:

Monday
8 p.m.: Trivial Pursuit
9 p.m.: Scrabble
Tuesday
8 p.m.: WWE NXT
Wednesday
8 p.m.: Sullivan's Crossing
9 p.m.: Joan
Thursday
8 p.m.: Superman & Lois
9 p.m.: The Librarians: The Next Chapter
Friday
8 p.m.: Whose Line Is It Anyway
9 p.m.: Inside the NFL
Saturday
CW Sports Saturday
Sunday
7 p.m.: CW Sunday Movie Night
New photos from the fourth and final season of Superman & Lois seemingly
confirm the presence of a fan-favourite Metropolis superhero from the comics
making their presence felt at last. Check it out...
News
By JoshWilding
May 13, 2024
The alternate reality "Captain Luthor" really being John Henry Irons was a huge
twist in Superman & Lois' first season. The character, played by Wolé Parks,
has had a recurring presence in the series ever since and donned an
impressive suit of armour on several occasions.
He's even earned himself the "Man of Steel" moniker, but a newly revealed
photo from Superman & Lois' series finale seemingly confirms John will finally
suit up as Steel.
As you'll see in the photo below, graffiti depicts Irons in his trademark armour,
albeit with a red cape and Superman's iconic "S" shield on his chest. While this
could be little more than an Easter Egg, season 4 may see him finally take on
that iconic "Steel" moniker as another of Metropolis' protectors.
Parks was among the actors who were let go from Superman & Lois amid
budget cuts, though many of those previously recurring cast members are
expected to show up for guest roles in this fourth and final batch of episodes.
In the comics, Steel first appeared in Adventures of Superman #500 in 1993.

Inspired by the legend of John Henry, he's an engineer who dons a suit of
powered armour to fight crime and protect the innocent.
After witnessing the death and destruction caused by a weapons project he

helped develop, Irons uses his skills to create a suit of high-tech armor and
weapons and made his big screen debut in 1997's Steel starring Shaquille
O'Neal (it's widely considered one of the worst comic book movies ever made)
Superman & Lois was developed by Todd Helbing and Greg Berlanti for The
CW. The show stars Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent/Superman and Elizabeth
Tulloch as Lois Lane. It follows the iconic superhero couple as they navigate the
challenges of parenthood while also dealing with the responsibilities and
dangers that come with being Earth's greatest protector.
Superman & Lois is set to return to The CW with its fourth and final season this
fall.
Tom Cavanagh played many characters in The Flash, with Reverse-Flash
obviously the most note-worthy. Now, the actor has confirmed he's set to make
an appearance in the Superman & Lois series finale...
News
By JoshWilding –
May 06, 2024
Source: KryptonSite.com
Love or hate the Arrowverse, there's no denying that Tom Cavanagh's
performance as the Reverse-Flash was hard to find fault with. As the years
passed, The Flash diluted the character by having the actor play multiple
versions of "Harrison Wells." However, in the suit, Cavanagh proved himself a
truly formidable villain.
His story ended in the Scarlet Speedster's series, but we can look forward to at
least one final appearance from the actor in the DC Universe.
Superman & Lois will conclude with its fourth and final season later this year,
and unlike Legends of Tomorrow and Batwoman, the show's creative team
have received enough notice to craft what we hope will be a satisfying ending.
The question now is, will that ending include an appearance from Eobard
Thawne?
Appearing at FAN EXPO Philadelphia this past weekend, Cavanagh reflected

on his work as a director behind the camera in the Arrowverse and explained
why he always preferred helming premieres and finales. Unfortunately, he
wasn't able to take charge of Superman & Lois' last episode (that honour goes
to Gregory Smith), but showrunner Todd Helbing did have another offer.
"The finale for 'Superman & Lois' was taken up already, and so I said, 'Well, I’m
happy to not do it,' which is when Todd was like 'Well, would you play a role?'"
the actor recalled (via KryptonSite.com). "And so that’s coming up, for those of
you that watch 'Superman & Lois' - something that I’m happy to have done."
While we'd bet on Cavanagh making a cameo appearance as a Dr. Harrison

Wells doppelganger (remember, Superman & Lois takes place in its own,
separate reality), it would be pretty wild for Reverse-Flash to show up and leave
the door open to this world being revisited down the line.
When The Flash ended, Cavanagh shared his hopes for a Reverse-Flash spin-
off. "I pitched Greg [Berlanti]...this idea that was like, 'Look at him as one of
those Dragons of Yore that are impenetrable but for one weakness that is a
scale and that is the vulnerability. What if Reverse-Flash fell for some paramore
on Earth and that created the obstacle for him getting back, because much
against his will, he’d fallen in love.'"
"That’s a human story. You can’t really tell that complicated of a Reverse-Flash
story on a television show called The Flash, because you have to serve The
Flash," he continued. "As a cast member, I’ve always been more than willing
and ready to do that, but now that The Flash is done, there’s always room to
explore that story. So, you never know."
Superman & Lois season 4 is expected to return to The CW this Fall.

Elizabeth Tulloch’s Heartfelt Farewell Message After “Superman & Lois” Wraps
Filming
April 29, 2024
With “Superman & Lois” having officially wrapped filming for the show’s fourth
and final season, Lois Lane actor Elizabeth “Bitisie” Tulloch has posted a
farewell message on her Facebook account.
“How lucky am I, to have been able to inhabit this woman’s bones, and brain,
and heart, for the last 4 years.
Lois Lane has been an icon for as long as Superman has because of her
fierceness, her work ethic, her determination, her playfulness, her commitment
to finding the truth no matter the cost.
Thank you to our creator Todd Helbing, co-showrunner Brent Fletcher, all of our
writers and producers and post-production team, our incredible VFX
department. Thank you @gberlanti and Sarah Schechter @50shadesofgabay
and everyone else at Berlanti Productions, everyone at DC Comics, @cdflix
@baptv10, Lisa Lewis and everyone else at @warnerbrostv, Mark Pedowitz
and @thecw, and to our phenomenal casting director @davidrapaport for telling
everyone “This is your Lois” and to @jessicaqueller and @rrtvwriter for seeing
and believing it. Thank you @iansamoildirector and everyone else in the
production office. And to our on-set crew: #SupermanAndLois was a big,
beautiful, epic show and it wouldn’t have happened without each and every one
of you. Thank you thank you thank you. I already miss you all so much.
Thank you to our wonderfully amazing cast – but mostly to @TylerHoechlin. My
Superman. I am so grateful for your talent, your work ethic, and your
commitment to making me laugh. I wish the best of luck to @JamesGunn and
the rest of his cast and crew, and especially to @RachelBrosnahan – I’m sure
you will be a wonderful Lois and I can’t wait to see what you do with the role.
Have so much fun – I know I did.
I’ll be grateful til the day I die that I had these few years to wake up every day
and be
Lois.
Lane.”
Lois Lane - Bitsie Tulloch
Superman & Lois – Pictured: Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois Lane – Photo: The CW –
© 2020 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
The fourth and final season of “Superman & Lois” will see the return of series
regulars Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent/Superman, Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois
Lane, Alex Garfin as Jordan Kent, Michael Bishop as Jonathan Kent and
Michael Cudlitz as Lex Luthor. All other cast members are said to be returning
in cameo or recurring character roles. Yvonne Chapman will play the role of
Amanda McCoy, who acted as head of LuthorCorp in Lex Luthor’s absence,
while Douglas Smith has been cast to play Daily Planet photographer Jimmy
Olsen.
“Superman & Lois” Season 4 is expected to premiere in Fall 2024 (September-

October).
April 29, 2024

With “Superman & Lois” having officially wrapped filming for the show’s fourth
and final season, Lex Luthor actor Michael Cudlitz has posted a farewell
message on his Twitter account.
“Lex Luthor on Superman & Lois will forever be one of the highlights of my
career… Thank you to everyone involved.”
Michael Cudlitz as Lex Luthor
Olsen.

October).
Filming on the Superman & Lois backlot has wrapped and new photos and
guest stars have leaked for the finale.
April 20, 2024

By Craig Byrne
We’re down to the final days of production for Superman & Lois and Elizabeth
Tulloch has shared on her Instagram story that they have finished filming on the
Cloverdale backlot that was built for the show in 2020. Interestingly, she also
pointed out that the backlot will soon be used for a major project. No word on
what show will be taking over the lot, but she says the show is “very
prestigious.”
Next up, via “flashfacts4real” on Instagram who shared the photos from
Canadagraphs, some shots from the finale filming! Several not-yet-announced
returning faces who were no longer series regulars seem to be present. It’s very
interesting that we see a fairly beat-up Superman in one shot; we’re also
fascinated by the “25 Years of Steelworks Industries” shot which shows artwork
of John Henry Irons (Wolé Parks) in a look and a suit very reminiscent of the
comics, complete with the red cape and the “S.” The “25 years” makes us
wonder… are we getting a flash-forward in the final episode? That could be
quite interesting, especially if we get to see what happens to the Kent family in
the decades to come. It may also provide a good bookend for the series
premiere which explored their past.
The final season of Superman & Lois is set to premiere this Fall on The CW.
Season 4 will consist of only ten episodes and of the cast, only five will be
returning as series regulars: Tyler Hoechlin (Clark Kent/Superman), Elizabeth
“Bitsie” Tulloch (Lois Lane), Alex Garfin (Jordan Kent), Michael Bishop
(Jonathan Kent), and Michael Cudlitz (Lex Luthor). The other members of the
cast, including Wolé Parks, Tayler Buck, Emmanuelle Chriqui, Erik Valdez, Inde
Navarrette, Dylan Walsh, and Sofia Hasmik, will be returning on a recurring
basis as guest stars.
Emmanuelle Chriqui Farewells “Superman & Lois” as Series Wraps Filming
Forever
April 24, 2024 With “Superman & Lois” having officially wrapped filming for the
show’s fourth and final season, Lana Lang actress Emmanuelle Chriqui has
posted a farewell message on her Instagram account.
”Today marks the last day of filming the series @cwsupermanandlois What a
wild ride these last 4 years have been. We have weathered so much from
COVID to Strikes and everything in between. We truly became a family. The
cast and crew of this show are what dreams are made of. I am endlessly
grateful for this exceptional journey. Thank you to our incredible showrunners
and writers for giving us all something to chew on. I love you all so much and
will carry you in my heart always. Special shout out to our fans that have
supported us and cheered us on from the beginning. I think this final season will
knock your socks off! That’s a wrap.”
Olsen.

October).
BY
ALEXANDER VALENTINO
SEP 19, 2023
Superman has a long history on the big screen, but DC's Superman & Lois
television series has done several things better than the movies.
Superman & Lois cast
Superman & Lois focuses on characterizing Superman as a relatable and

human hero, contrasting with the symbol-like portrayal in DC films.
The series takes a grounded approach, prioritizing family drama over nonstop
action, providing a refreshing take on Superman's story.
Superman & Lois embraces DC's weirder side, featuring diverse and original
villains, while still maintaining a strong focus on the chemistry between
Superman and Lois Lane.
Superman & Lois has been a well-received series, and in some ways, it's been
a more faithful adaptation of the characters than many DC films have been.
Born out of the CW Arrowverse's Crisis On Infinite Earths storyline, the series
wound up creating its own separate canon to tell a more focused story, taking
place outside of the Arrowverse's Earth Prime. Though Tyler Hoechlin and
Elizabeth Tulloch return as the titular characters from the CW's Supergirl, they
aren't the same exact characters, instead standing in as alternate versions of
their previous roles.
While the DC movies have sometimes had a difficult time characterizing

Superman, Superman & Lois has become one of the best Superman TV shows
by managing to accomplish some critical storytelling beats to the duo and their
universe that the movies have sometimes fallen short of. While a portion of this
success can be attributed to being a TV series with the benefits of a longer time
to spend on characterization and endearing an audience, it's hard to ignore the
choices deliberately taken to reach a new level of faithfulness in adapting DC's
most iconic couple.
Superman Legacy’s New Costume Gets A Disappointing Update From James

Gunn
10
Superman Isn't A Savior Figure
Superman man Of Steel Jesus Pose
One criticism of the DCEU's showings of Superman is his status as a savior

figure. Instead of being characterized by a literal, down-to-earth life story, films
such as Man of Steel turn Superman into a Christ allegory. While this gives a lot
of opportunities for interesting symbolism, it takes away some of the "relatable
farm boy" elements that are so important to the character's journey. It's hard to
relate to a hero that's more of a symbol than a fleshed-out person.
Luckily, Superman & Lois has plenty of time to characterize Clark Kent as a
husband and a father, as well as Superman. Rather than being an unattainable
god, the Superman of the series is a kind and charismatic person with a strong
moral code that is taken with him into his responsibilities as Superman.
Superman is still undeniably powerful, but it's underlaid by a very human person
beneath it all.
9
Superman & Lois Is More Grounded
Jonathan and Jordan Kent on Superman & Lois pic
For a world as fantastic as the DC Universe, taking a more grounded approach

might seem like a strange choice. The Arrowverse leaned into the wackier side
of DC storytelling, making Superman & Lois' grounded family drama stick out
even more. In the series two-hour premiere, Superman only appears in costume
for a mere two scenes, with the majority of the pilot's time spent mourning the
death of Martha Kent and challenging Clark's relationship with his sons.
This focus on family is the heart of the series, a welcome breath of fresh air
compared to the nonstop action and world-ending crises of Superman's various
films. Getting to see more of the character out of action and learn more about
his relationships is a privilege a Superman film has yet to provide as satisfyingly
as Superman & Lois has. Unsurprisingly, it works well and makes the action
scenes all the more impactful.
8
The Show Isn't Afraid To Embrace DC's Weirder Side
Superman & Lois Season 2 Bizarro pic
Despite its humble roots as a character-focused drama, Superman & Lois still
isn't afraid to embrace DC's wilder side. From Bizarro being featured as a
primary villain to the show's many dips into alternate realities, the science fiction
trappings of DC's lore can still be seen on full display despite the grounded
direction. The show succeeds as it doesn't spend too much time retreading
overused Superman villains.
While DC's cinematic fare certainly doesn't shy away from this, Superman's
stand-alone films tend to avoid the unrulier parts of DC canon. There's never
been a live-action film adaptation of Bizarro, and The Stranger's arc from a
villain to a friend has no real cinematic equivalent. Just because Superman &
Lois is more grounded doesn't mean it never strays into the bizarre.
7
Superman & Lois Has Explored More Diverse Villains
Superman & Lois The Stranger Villain Identity
When it comes to antagonists, the Superman films tend to obsess over Lex
Luthor. Obviously the most iconic of the Man of Steel's rogues gallery, having
film after film feature him as either the primary antagonist or the one behind
characters like Superman IV: The Quest for Peace's Nuclear Man or Batman v
Superman: Dawn of Justice's Doomsday. Lex Luthor is an engaging villain and
interesting foil, to be certain, but a healthy variety of villains goes far in keeping
Superman stories from getting stale.
Lex Luthor is certainly present in Superman & Lois, but he's only one small part
of the picture within a diverse roster of villains. From The Stranger to Bizarro to
Tal-Rho, the series manages to keep Superman on his toes by taking heavy
liberties with characters from the comics and putting a new spin on them,
creating original rivalries perhaps more engaging than the films.
6
Superman Cleans Up His Messes
Superman in Man of Steel and Superman & Lois
A recurring criticism of many films featuring Superman, especially within the

modern DCEU, is his propensity for collateral damage. The climax of 2013's
Man of Steel leaves Metropolis scarred with billions of dollars in damage. It's
hard to imagine Tyler Hoechlin's Superman flying away in the face of so much
damage after witnessing how he handles crises.
Not only does the Superman & Lois version of the character stick around after a
fight to make sure everyone is ok, he even speaks multiple languages, ensuring
that he's able to help with the aftermath as best he can no matter where in the
world he finds himself, only flying away after ensuring that everything is under
control.
5
Superman & Lois Nails Its Titular Character's Chemistry
Superman & Lois Season 3 Poster
Superman films have typically had a lot to cram within a two-hour runtime: From
Superman's origins to the development of his powers and code of ethics, and of
course, a climactic fight or two, sometimes his romance with Lois Lane is
something that can easily fall by the wayside. With the series focus on this
aspect of the character being literally in the title, it's no surprise that Superman
& Lois has been able to capture its titular character's chemistry better than ever
before.
The relationship portrayed in the series is a breath of fresh air in its authenticity.
Lois Lane isn't just a damsel in distress who falls hopelessly in love with
Superman because she'd been rescued, but she's an independent, fully
realized character with a quick wit and a head for crisis. Lois and Clark banter,
tease, argue, suffer hardships, and binge TV shows together, making this
adaptation of their relationship one of the most true to life out there.
4
Superman & Lois Get To Be Parents
Superman & Lois Cast Photo
Other than their fleshed-out relationship, what sets Superman & Lois apart from
other Superman stories is their struggles as parents. No other live-action
portrayal of the characters has ever had quite so much focus on this fascinating
facet of Superman's story. Despite the son of Superman being split into two twin
boys, the outgoing Jonathan and the sensitive Jordan, the series manages the
most heartfelt rendition of Superman and Lois' adventures as parents.
One of the primary struggles of the titular couple is the raising of their twin boys.
Along with the normal struggles of parenthood, Lois and Clark must also
grapple with the manifestation of Kryptonian powers in their children. The fact
that only one of the twins has thus far done so has been an engine for drama as
Clark balances favoritism against teaching the awesome responsibility of his
powers to a child, a subject the Superman films could only dream of doing
justice to.
3
Superman Isn't Overpowered
Tyler Hoechlin as Superman
As a character, one of the biggest hurdles to overcome in writing a compelling

Superman story is balancing his powers. With so much capability, it's hard to
find a balance between staying true to the character's identity as the world's
most powerful hero and giving him something to struggle with. The format of a
feature film only makes this harder, with so little time to devote to Superman
losing, but Superman & Lois manage to strike an excellent middle ground.
From being beaten within an inch of his life by Doomsday in the Season 3 finale
to losing his powers to Ally Allston's power absorption, this adaptation of
Superman has known defeat, keeping the stakes higher. Not only is he not
invincible in a fight, but his emotional struggles with controlling his powers,
setting a good example for his sons, and coming to terms with realistic struggles
with his loved ones keep Superman emotionally vulnerable as well. The
dramatic reveal of Lois Lane's breast cancer diagnosis is a prime example of
the vulnerability of Superman & Lois' titular characters.
2
Superman & Lois Is Able To Tell A More Focused Story Without A Wider
Universe
Arrowverse Crisis On Infinite Earths Green Arrow
In the finale of Season 2, Lois' father and high-ranking General Sam Lane gives
a speech describing Superman as Earth's only superhero to Jon and Jordan.
This confirms seeds that were planted earlier with the depiction of Clark's
proposal to Lois being different from the CW's earlier portrayal of the scene,
firmly establishing Superman & Lois as taking place within a self-contained
universe. In this world, Superman stands largely alone.
This distinction as a separate continuity plays to the strengths of the show,

letting the focus stay on Superman, Lois, and the Kent twins without a grander
universe of characters getting in the way to steal the spotlight. While films have
varied in how many other DC heroes are implied to inhabit the same world as
Superman, the emphasis on Superman being the world's core heroic force
keeps him invested in threats. This helps maintain the tension of world-enders
like Ally Allston and Doomsday, Superman not being able to rely on last-minute
backup to take over the show.
1
The Character's Relationships Matter More
Tyler Hoechlin and Bitsie Tulloch
Superman & Lois is well established for having such a touching and faithful
version of Lois Lane and Clark Kent's relationship on the screen, but the focus
on interpersonal relationships of the show doesn't stop there. The couple's
relationship with their sons, John Henry Irons and his daughter Natalie, and
more contentious relationships like Sam Lane keeps the show focused on
characters, not events. It's here that Superman has always been at his best in
DC movies, shows, and comics.
The depth provided by the character's relationships to one another being the
primary thesis of the series rather than the climactic events Superman must
endure makes it much easier to get invested. Compared to the relatively
stagnant arcs of the relationships of Superman across the films, be it falling for
Lois or punching Batman for a bit until they're buddies, Superman films can't
hold a candle to Superman & Lois as a character study. While the time for
development allotted by being a series vs a 2-3 hour movie helps, it's a lesson
the character's big-screen adventures can and should learn from.
April 24, 2024
“Superman & Lois” has wrapped its final day of filming. Elizabeth Tulloch shared
a message on her Facebook account showing what was written on her final call
sheet.
“To the best cast and crew in television. Thank you for four seasons of tireless
dedication, endless enthusiasm and your massive talent in making Superman
and Lois one of the best adaptations in the Superman mythology.
– Todd Helbing, Brent Fletcher, Gregory Smith, Lisa Lewis, lan Samoil, Melissa
Crich”
Olsen.
October).
April 15, 2024
By Craig Byrne
Another returning actor has been confirmed for the Superman & Lois series
finale.
We had already seen that Tayler Buck (Natalie) would be back for the finale;
now also via Instagram we see that Emmanuelle Chriqui (Lana Lang) will be
back for the final episode as well.
“SO many emotions… much more later,” she captioned it.
Tyler Hoechlin (Clark), Elizabeth Tulloch (Lois), Alex Garfin (Jordan), Michael
Bishop (Jonathan), and Michael Cudlitz (Lex Luthor) are the only series regulars
who will be returning in that status for the final season, but most of the actors
not on that list, including Chriqui, Buck, Wolé Parks, Dylan Walsh, Sofia
Hasmik, and Erik Valdez, are expected to make guest appearances in Season
4.
As revealed earlier this week by Bitsie Tulloch, the series finale is called “It
Went By So Fast.” The fourth and final season will consist of only ten episodes,
with the last one currently filming as we speak. Superman & Lois Season 4 is
scheduled to premiere this Fall on The CW; follow @KryptonSite on Twitter/X
for continued updates about the new season! And if you’d like to see what
Emmanuelle posted on Instagram, you can see an embed below.
SUPERMAN AND LOIS INTERVIEWS
We talk, we talk Superman, and we know what's happening. We talk, we talk,

we talk Superman, and we cover everything. Hi Super Fans, and welcome once
again to All Star Superfan Podcast. The podcast that explores the full 85-year
history of the man of steel. We have a very exciting episode for you this month
is Rob and I sit down and chat with Superman and lowest writer Alan Malinger.
We chat about the show, his writing career, the writer strikes, and we'll even
hear his very own pitch to DC Comics for Superman comic featuring a team-up
of Superman as portrayed on screen by Tom Welling, Tyler Hecklin, and
Brendan Routh. Before we get into all that, though, a quick reminder of our
socials. You can reach us at All Star Superfan on Facebook and Instagram, at
All Star Superpot on Twitter, and you can send your emails and voice notes to
allstarsuperpod at gmail.com.
We also have the inside All Star Superfan Podcast Facebook group if you want
to join us in the inner circle. But for now, it's over to you Rob. Long time ago, we
were very grateful to have you here. We have been a great team for the season
4, and we have been a great team for the season 4. I am doing a freelance
episode for season 4. At the very least, I will have at least one episode in all 4
seasons. In addition to that, I co-wrote a comic book tie-in with Superman and
Lois for the mini-series Earth Prime
. We want to talk about the comic specifically because both me and we covered
it in an earlier episode and we loved it. But I have reason to believe that you're
a pretty big Superman fan even before Superman and Lois. Can you tell us a
little bit about that? Oh, man. Yeah, my entire life. I don't know my first
encounter with Superman, but kind of by narrowing it down, I figure it pretty
much has to be super friends. Only because I have this memory of the first time
I saw the Christopher Reeve film on TV at about age 5, and I had the Superman
superpowers action figure next to me.
So if the character was familiar to me, Christopher Reeve was not the first
encounter, so it must have been super friends to super powers. And then
probably somewhere in there, I got the book Superman from the 30s to the 70s
from the library and read that. And around the time the John Byrne reboot
began, and Ant gave me all six parts of the Man of Steel mini-series. And from
then, I kind of sporadically would pick up Superman comics when I was in the
bookstore convinced my parents to get it. And the point where I truly became,
okay, I have to get every issue. Not just I love Superman and I'll get it when I
can, but I must was when the exile story line started at the start of 1989,
because that was, I think, one of the first times I came in and it was the
serialized thing.
And so that was when I became a regular buyer at the local store in Columbus,
Ohio, which at the time was central city comics. And so from that point on, I was
getting every new Superman issue as it came out and then building in the back
issues of like the first two years that I had missed, you know, filling in the holes
that I didn't have because it'd be like once every third issue or something like
that. So that's kind of the early years of my Superman fandom. I get the
impression you're a fan of the other TV shows though as well.
Yeah, I mean, for me, if you ask me, like, what is, you know, my canon
Superman, it is that triangle era of Superman, that era of Roger Stern, Jerry
Ordway, Dan Jurgens, Louis Simonson, and then the Reeve films. And the TV
shows, I mean, I appreciate, but I've never been the biggest fan of, I've never
been, I watched most of them as they came on, but they have never been like
my favorite shows on the air at the time. But I certainly have an appreciation for
them. I know you guys are big fans of Superboy. I had a weird relationship with
Superboy because it would run in Columbus at like noon on Saturdays.
And we got the first two seasons. And then it disappeared for seasons three
and four. And I never saw those seasons. But I had seen in the comics and
every now and then they would talk about, oh, it was so much darker. They've
revamped the whole thing. It's kind of like this, this, you know, I think so out for
gosh, at that point, I would say 20 some year, maybe 25 years, I, because it
was, it was unavailable to anybody until I think the first season come came out
in 2006. And it did so badly. Yeah. Season one was not the best way to launch
that. Although it does have Alan's favorite Lex Luthor ever. Scott will stop. He
keeps, he keeps, he keeps saying this to people.
And it's not true. It is not true. Poor Scott Wells is acting as terrible in that first
season. You know, and I feel, I feel bad for the guy because anybody who looks
at season one goes, okay, that was bad, but he was especially bad. And as I
understand, the guy wasn't all that experienced in actor. He was cast by Ilya
Salkant, who thought the guy had an interesting look.
And he, there was actually an interview resurfaced of him recently with, he was
speaking to author Ed Groves back in, back in 1989. And it's one thing that we,
we spoke to her previously is he was really authentic and really wanted to
portray the part and work hard towards it. But unfortunately, everybody has, we
all have our limits and his limit, his limits included, you know, that role and
acting in that role. And obviously he was replaced in season two by Sherman
Howard as well. So, but yeah, you, you, that, which was funny because
Sherman Howard, I thought was good.
And every now and then, my dad would catch some of season two with me. And
to, you know, up until, you know, the year my father died, when we would see
Sherman Howard in something, he'd go, Oh, Lex Luthor. I remember he's in
one of our favorite episodes of Law and Order as an attorney representing the
Russian, representing a guy who was working with the Russian mob. And you
know, this would have been 10 years after those episodes there. And I'm
watching with that, he goes, Oh, Lex Luthor. So it was, that, that was kind of
fun. And I think season two, I did finally see season three and four when they
came out on DVD. I just watched them this summer. They did not live up to the
hype that had been built up in my head of 25 some years. They got really good
guys.
They got really good. I kind of think season two is maybe the best season of
that show. Because it's, I'm going to defend it. Hang on, hang on, stay with me
here. I think season two is the season where they're like, okay, we're doing a
power rangers level show here, even though power rangers doesn't exist. That's
the shorthand I'm going to use. You know, we're doing a power rangers level.
So how do we do that? And how do we bring in some of like the goofy comic
book stuff that can sustain an episode story that lasts 22 minutes?
Because the failing of that show is it should not be a 22 minute episodes. It
needed to be Star Trek the next generation with one hour shows. But okay, so if
we're doing 22 minute episode shows and we're doing Superboy, what do we
do? And I think season two hits that in spades. When I got to season three, I felt
a lot of episodes where I was so aware it was exceeding its budget or straining
of its budget, you know, and they're shooting at a lot. And I never quite
understood why they were working at this bureau that feels like it's really a way
to do a newspaper without it.
And the supporting Catholic, there's a lot in season three that just never clicked
for me. Season four, I thought got a little bit better. But season three, I feel a lot
of like, oh, you guys are still kind of learning and the last five episodes of any
given season seem to be either memory shows or bottle shows. And I think two
in terms of and this may be very, very, very, my eight year old nostalgia talking
right there. But two at least was kind of fun and where I can go, look, this is
never going to be, you know, the CW level stuff. It's never going to be the WB
level stuff. But if I'm putting myself in the mindset of a kid who's discovering this
alongside power rangers, this is at least kind of fun. This is going to get me to
pick up a comic and find out who mixtures pit like is or gizarro or yellow peril or
perry, a little perry.
Yeah, no, no, perry. Yeah. So crazy. I honestly did not know she was a villain
from the comics until very recently. And I think that episode was actually written
by the guy, Mark Jones, who I think created her in the first place. I might be
terribly wrong with that. I don't know because I don't know if Mark Jones, I
mean, he might have been a super boy right here. He was. I think he was.
Sorry. On the comic books. I'm not sure. Because I googled that there was a
point where I went looking for Easter eggs to put in the show because my we'll
talk about this later, I'm sure. But when guys do Superman Easter eggs, there's
a period where it felt like, okay, well, you've done the Donnerfilm guys have you
watched anything else?
And so I kind of made it a goal when I got on the show when they would ask for
Easter eggs to go beyond just like, okay, Ben Hubbard is the guy down the
street. And this and that like, okay, let's get some deep cuts here. Ben, is that
something they specifically asked for? Do they come to the writers and say,
we'd like to sprinkle something in here? Could you come back with something?
There were times it varies. I mean, sometimes we're taking our own initiative
and sneaking stuff in. And there are other times where like, certainly in the first
season, I would be like, you know, nine 30 at night and I'm getting a text from
Todd Hellbing, our showrunner saying, hey, I need an Easter egg here. Is there
like a military guy in Superman history who can just throw in that would be a fun
one for the fans? And that's where I go.
Oh, yeah, Jason Trask. But yeah, there would be these weird, there would
always be these strange odd time of night things that were like, hey, I'm writing.
And like, we got a locomotive. Is there something we could put cool on the side
of a locomotive? Like that kind of stuff. And that's also when you realize, oh my
God, Todd Hellbing is living, breathing, sleeping, Superman and Lois, you
know, up until the time I go to bed. And I know the guy would get up at five
o'clock to start working and writing.
So like, is there, is there an expectation when you get, say, hired as a staff
writer that you familiarize yourself with the previous shows? Or is that kind of
just up to the individual writers themselves? I think it's up to the individual
writers. And I think among all of, I'm the one, I won't say I'm the one. There are
a couple of us with a lot more broader based Superman knowledge. And you
know, they were like, Jay Jamison and Mike Narducci are both guys who came
up with me on the 90s comics.
And so that terrain was pretty well covered. And so our assistant Max Cronick
was also, despite the fact he's 10 years younger than the rest of us, he also
knows that stuff forwards and backwards. So he would know how to slide in
some stuff like that. And then you would have someone like Julianna James,
who is one of the biggest Lois Lane fans I know. And so she would come in with
like Lois stuff I hadn't heard of. And Katie Aldrin had worked on Krypton and she
had had to learn a lot about the lore on Krypton.
So like, oh, there's doomsday this or this thing with Lara. So like, you know, in
terms of, I think there's familiarity, like you wouldn't have someone say, well,
you know, like the Terry Hatcher Lois and someone go, wow, what are you
talking about? But in terms of, you know, it wasn't like, okay, guys, go study
everything about Superman because we have to know. And I think that's
honestly a benefit because sometimes if you had nine people in there like me,
you know, who are all referencing old stories, it maybe gets a little great to it is a
little too reverent. And you want someone in there who can say, well, you're
doing it this way because that's how you know it. But what if we did it this way?
And by the same token, if you're in the room and they're talking about ideas and
we've got this and we're going to have this character or this story, it helps to
have someone to go, hey, this exists in the lore. So like, I just have to bend
what you're saying just a little bit and we can call this thing the eradicator and
it's your story, but we're tying to something bigger. So it's kind of like a case by
case basis thing. And when we can tie it to something that exists, that's cool.
And when we can kind of blaze our own trail, I always found that was cool
because I want to do the stuff that when the next generation comes and they
reference it, I know it's referencing our show. If we have Chloe Sullivan on the
show, you know, we're paying homage to Smallville. So like if Sarah Cushing
exists in a later version, you know, that's us. We didn't just reincarnate Chloe
Sullivan.
You know, when there's the Gazette or Chrissy Betbo or that stuff, you know
that that stuff is referencing us. And it's also just, I think something you do as a
creator, you have to plant new seeds for the next crop. You can't just kind of
strip mine everything that was there and then, you know, just regurgitated. And
so I love the moments when we could do stuff that had been done in the comics
or other versions.
And I love the moments when we could go quite a bit differently because that
was us putting our own identity and our own stamp on it. I have to ask on the
subject of being too reverent. And I know it was just an aesthetic kind of call
back. Wonder Detroit lives, right? I, I leapt out of the couch. I was like, yeah, I
wonder Detroit, baby. Yeah. And I think we tweeted you at the time and you
sent us the cover. It was absolutely beautiful. Just tell me about the moment
you had to explain who Wonder Detroit was to the rest of the rock.
Okay. That's a fun behind the scenes thing because I'm writing a scene and the
scene got truncated. It's not in the episode now. The wanted Troy thing ended
up in a later episode because people like these three aches so much. But in
episode 307, which is the manheim flashback where we learn about manheim
and Pia, there's a scene at the top of act one where Clark is packing Lois's bags
and they're going off to chemotherapy. And there was a little bit more to that
scene where he's like, you know, you're doing, you know, this, okay, we got
this, you want to do work or, or Wanda. And he's got, you know, work folders
and trashy novel.
And she says trashy novel for the win. And that was my way of sneaking it in.
Cause I'm like, okay, I know I'm not the biggest fan of that storyline to be
honest. I do. I don't think many people are. Oh, yeah. I went back and I listened
to your Lois and Clark episode and you said you liked the Lex thing and I think
that's an opinion. I knew that like, okay, let's, let's do an Easter egg here,
something that hasn't been called back to. And we'd been a little light on Lois
and Clark Easter eggs. And I'm like, oh, this is perfect.
And I went and I looked up the episode. So I was like, I know she had the novel,
but what was it called? And it was like the amazing adventures of Wanda
Detroit. I'm like, I'm never going to get that. Someone's going to go, why is it
called this? And so Wanda Detroit lives seemed like a better way to go with
that. And Todd knows me well enough that he pegged without checking that
that was an Easter egg. And then he went and he Google it because we were in
a production meeting like this on zoom. And you know, he's taking everybody
through props and this is, and Adam's going to tell us about what this book here
is. I'm like, oh, he knows. He, I'm explaining
. Well, it's this callback to Lois and Clark. It's a not trash novel that Lois wrote
and blah, blah, blah, and because our director was in that meeting when we got
to set that day and they're bringing out the prop and they're giving it to Tyler and
Bitzie and working out that a director says, oh, yeah, yeah. Adam can tell you all
about this is a very important prop here. He puts me on the spot with Tyler and
Bitzie and I go, yeah, this is a reference and Bitzie goes, I know it. I knew it was
an Easter egg. It's like, you know, I always picked those out. I knew that was a
reference. And then the scene got cut. I'm, where is that prop now? Does
anyone have it or do you have it? I have it. I have it.
They came to me on the last day of shooting. It's four in the morning on
Saturday morning and they say, hey, you know, it's your last day. Is there
anything, you know, prop you want? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I mean,
nothing. I don't want to take something you guys got to use. And you're like,
wait, do you have the book? He goes, yeah, can I take that? Yeah, we got three
of them. Go ahead. They'll give you one. I have it now. If you open it up, it's just
a prop cover on a galley of, I think it's a neuromancer. So there was no fake
pages or anything written for that.
But I thought that would be a fun one because I was trying to just think of
something distinctly Lois and Clarkie that I could sneak in because I was
keeping track. I had done a bunch. I had, you know, of course, in the comic
book, we did nuclear man and we had lysh or I want to ask you about that. So
just to kind of get back to the start, I was just wondering, just for people who
kind of have an interest in writing or want to become writers or get into the
industry, how did you follow that path initially?
What led you into the world of writing as a career? Oh, man, this could be a
long answer. I have been interested in writing since fourth grade. And when I
went to college, I was trying to figure out a way to pursue writing. I thought I
would be a screenwriter. But one of the big inspirations that pushed me into TV,
and this is the mid 90s, I should probably specify, was there was a writer from
Star Trek, Deep Space Nine and Ron Moore, who was answering fan questions
on AOL.
And often those questions would lead to discussions about the development of
a particular episode or his feelings on other episodes that he had done and
what had changed and what was different. And that really got me interested in
TV writing, because also at the same time that was going on, what I was falling
in love with like TV drama, like homicide, ER, Buffy, and like, oh, TV, this might
actually be better writing than movies. And so when I went to college at
Denison, I was in the film program, but there was an opportunity my junior year
when we were trying to start a local cable network. And they needed
programming.
And so I decided I was going to do a half hour, essentially teen drama. We
called it a soap opera, but it was something that would have been, you would
have recognized its influences as what was on the WB at the time, you know,
Dawson's Creek and that sort of thing. And so I ran that for two years and that
really convinced me I needed to do TV. And when I came out here, I just, you
know, after graduation, just pursued anything in the business that I could. And
for a while that was leading more towards the feature and I was in development.
I was a script reader to those of your listeners who aren't familiar with me at all.
I'm known on Twitter as the bitter script reader, which was a blog I started in
2009, which was screenwriting advice from the perspective of somebody who at
that point had spent like six years reading a lot of terrible scripts from people
who were trying to break in.
And you start to see a lot of the commonalities of people's first couple scripts or
things that are wrong. Eventually, that led to me getting a following on Twitter,
which led to, you know, making friends with some professional writers. And, you
know, I'm going to try to truncate as much of this as I can. And then I met
showrunner Jeff Lieber on there a few years later. He hired me as a writers PA
on the show NCIS New Orleans. There was a showrunner change and several
people left, including me. And soon after that, I was the writers assistant on two
seasons of CBS show called Blood and Treasure.
And throughout all of this, I kept a blog and a couple of things eventually
caught the attention of Greg Berlanti. Got a meeting with Greg. He brought me
in for staffing on one of the DC shows, which I thought this is great. It's going to
happen. And then batwoman said no to me. And I was crushed. And then saw
Greg a few months later at an event and we were catching up and he said stay
in touch because we got something coming up that I think will be really good for
you. And that turned out to be Superman. And so which if I had been staffed on
batwoman, I would have been committed to season one of batwoman at the
time they were launching the room for Superman and Lois. And it would not
have happened.
So the lesson there is sometimes you don't get the job. So that nine months
later, you were in the right place to get the job you really, really much. So that's
the very truncated version of kind of my path through here. Adam, you did
answer this. You answered this once before on Twitter when I asked you about
I'm fascinated to know like in the 90s, if you were writing a spec script for Star
Trek the next generation or whatever, it would be a standalone story and you'd
submit it and that'd be fine. Whereas nowadays there's so few shows that have
standalone episodes. Most shows have like a continuous arc that runs the
entire season.
Like how do you write a spec script for an episode of a hypothetical episode of
Superman and Lois will say when that's like an arc based show, do you write it
as if it fits in between episodes three and four or how do you do it? There are
different schools of thoughts of this and I think honestly it's whatever works for
your idea. But one approach I've seen people try with other shows is yes, this
takes place between episode three and four of the previous season. People it
used to be you wanted it always to be current, but I think as the practice has
gone on of doing this in the current climate of writing, it's even more acceptable
to reach back because you're just showing your writing.
So it's like if you're writing a Grey's Anatomy with the original cast, I think you
could get away with that more now than you could 10 years ago. So there is
that approach of like saying, okay, I'm setting it specifically in this season.
There's the approach of setting it in between seasons. Like if I was writing a
Superman and Lois spec, I would probably set it between seasons two and
three because that is there's a month long gap that's in canon where we know
not much happened
. It's in the middle of the year because season one is the freshman year for the
boys. Season two is semester one of sophomore year. Season three is the
second semester of sophomore year. So if you wanted to write a holiday
episode of Superman and Lois, I mean, that is right there between seasons two
and three. What happened in Christmas, you know, during there, that is what I
would do if I was writing a Superman and Lois. It's just a link.
Yeah, it makes me feel like it shows up and all of that. I would pick a point
where it fits into continuity and where there's there's an open spot. Now, there
are some shows that are like very heavily serialized and there's no breathing
room. And I've seen people try like, all right, I'm going to write an alternate
version of what happens in season eight. Someone was telling me they wrote a
walking dead that was like, Oh, in this season episode six, we these characters
are off screen
. So I'm going to tell the story of what they're doing when this is happening in
this episode. There's a lot of different ways to do it. You kind of just figure out,
you know, what story you're telling and where you can fit it in. And to get back
to Superman and Lois, then, you know, we've discussed how, you know, it did
come in the midst of kind of the tail end of that sort of CW wave of all these
other shows.
Can you talk and apologies that this is more of a taught helping question, but
like, can you talk a little bit about maybe the shadow that they cast as well as
things like Small ille, which still is this iconic show that everybody remembers
when the show was being developed. And I don't know how much part of that
you were like, were they mindful of not being the same as Supergirl or Smallville
or the Flash or anything like that? Was that a big part of it?
Which one to lean away from those are? I'm going to go to the refrain that I
probably will use a lot. And that's a taught helping question because I wasn't
there for development. That was that was a process between Todd and Greg
Berlanti. I came in when they started the room and there was an existing script.
So I can't answer that with any certainty. And as a general rule, just assume
most of the time when I'm talking, I'm speaking for myself. I know you guys
know that. That's just kind of my disclaimer for anyone from like ScreenRant
who wants to like, you know, pull from this and say, this almost happened. No,
this is what Adam wanted.
This is a pitch out of hatters. I would say, I don't know if we ever thought too
much about the shadow. They cast. The one thing I always kind of regretted is,
you know, we assembled as a room right at the in February 2020, which meant
four weeks into that, we were on Zoom and we were, you know, spent the rest
of that season working from home. And I kind of regret we didn't get to because
all of those shows were on the same lot in terms of their writers rooms. I regret
that we never had the opportunity to really meet too many of the other shows of
the writers rooms.
Like, you know, you're in your one of seven other shows and it would be fun to
like feel some some kind of camaraderie or anything like that. But we were kind
of out on our island. And the one thing that did do is like we were focused
intently on our show and you just tend not to think too much of the others. Now,
my job season one was I was the guy getting all of the scripts from all the other
shows that they came in. And part of that was because I was writing a Bible for
Earth Prime and they wanted just to, you know, kind of keep track of that. And
the other part of it was, you know,
I think there was at least one person on every show who was doing that just to
make sure that like, hey, we're all pulling from comic books. We've got, you
know, you're they're doing something similar to us. So we should you should
bend or Oh, hey, we might might be aware like, I don't think there was ever too
much even as they do this, we can cross over with it because I don't think that's
that's anything that anybody is eager to do. But it was a way of just keeping an
eye and making sure that we weren't too close or that we weren't doing
something that was like blatantly contradictory with the other shows.
And sometimes there were times where like we were talking about when we
were talking about John Henry when he was still a Lex Luthor variant. And I
brought up, hey, you know, batwoman just did this thing where if you have two
people with the same kind on the same earth, they get splitting headaches. And
they're like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, you know, we're not going to
have them going out out, you know, there's another Lex Luthor here. And I said,
yeah, because then super girl, you know, almost the same week, they have
billions of brainiacs there and everybody's fine. Like, Oh, there you go. You
know, so like that kind of stuff slips through.
And it became the number one driver in any of this is keep an eye on your
show. And I don't, you know, Todd had worked on the flash. And I think that
gave him some experience in terms of like knowing how these shows work,
even though the flash and Superman are very different shows and very different
characters. But it wasn't something that I don't remember devoting too much
thought to, to be honest. No, the only reason I ask is obviously Supergirl was
still on the air in season one. Is that right? It's season six aired the same time.
Supergirl. And it gets weird because of how all of the stuff ended up airing
because of the pandemic. But Supergirl was in season five as we were. We
were assembling right after Crisis aired. And so they were in season five and
then they were shooting season six while we were shooting season one. And
then the way it ended up airing,
I think their season six aired into our season two, if I'm remembering correctly.
Was there ever any kind of edict to, you know, you can't reference Supergirl or
you can't reference anything from the other shows, like this is its own thing and
we can't kind of reference any of that stuff. The only thing I would say that is
was anything like it. And I'm so glad they did this because it was a practical
thing was at the point, you know, you have to take yourself back to the early
days of COVID and it's the wild west of like, when are we shooting? When are
we airing? We don't have, you know, con, we don't have concrete knowledge
when our episodes are airing, let alone anybody else's.
And so that creates a barrier in terms of like, you know, sometimes on like
Buffy and Angel, they would do things were like Buffy would do something that
would be an Easter egg reference to what was on Angel that night. Because the
normal way of doing TV is you get the full schedule at the start of the year and
you can look at it and you can say, Oh, Buffy episode, you know, 501 is going to
air the same night as Angel, you know, 201. And so we can do that and we can,
you know, cross coordinate.
We know when Drew still is wrapping up on on Buffy and she can go over to
Angel. During the pandemic, we didn't have any of that. We didn't have any
knowledge of which show was airing first. We didn't have any knowledge of
when these shows were going. And so there was kind of like a soft edict of like,
let's make everybody's life similar and let's just not reference any of the other
shows. Just because God forbid we reference something on Supergirl that was
a Supergirl episode that hadn't aired yet and we took them over. And at the
same time, it was also we hope for the courtesy of like, the other shows don't
just decide to be cute and reference something that we haven't yet had a
chance to air. So I think that was the only time there was an edict of like, don't
mention it.
And I think that's great because honestly, you go back and you look at the first
season in a deep space nine where there are pains to bring over stuff from the
other show and tie in and say they're part of it. Those are some of the weakest
episodes. Like I like you. He's my favorite character. One of my favorite
characters. I'm not too thrilled to see him on Deep Space Nine because he
doesn't belong there. You know, it's I don't think I don't think doing that sort of
great to it is stuff helps. I said I was on NCIS New Orleans.
It was the second season, but I watched the first season. And in the first season
they did for the first six episodes, there was always some kind of tie to the
mothership, whether it was somebody gets on a screen and is talking to their
tech guy or you have Mark Harmon making a cameo and none of it had
anything to do with good storytelling. It was just we have to put these cameos in
there. So I think we had a great benefit that for the first season circumstances
made it so like it took that tool off the table, you know, that thing where maybe
you think you have to do to get the audience like you, we couldn't use it. And I
think our show is stronger because it didn't feel like we were using any of that
air over stuff as a crutch or, you know, a great two just mentioned to this
character or that character.
But that's the only time I can think of where there was a definite, oh, you must
not do it. And it was practical. It had nothing to do with, you know, any network
mandate. It was like, we don't know when these are airing. And on a similar
note, I'm feel free to just swap me away now and ask this. You know, we're
always hearing these DC comic shows and or especially Superman shows on
DC Comics say, no, you're not allowed to use that or you're not allowed to use
that or obviously in smallville, they weren't allowed to use Batman, but also they
weren't allowed to use Lois Lane for a long time
. Was there anything like that? Any pushback from DC about anything was
there anything you weren't allowed to use? I mean, this is going to sound like a
cop out answer, but I can't remember. I don't well, I'll phrase it this way. I don't
remember any point where we got really excited about a story and then found
out DC says we can't do it. Like I think there was some desire in our part to play
with characters that hadn't played with. And so we're playing with toys that not
many people are, you know, laying clank to and at the start of the season, we
would always get a deck from DC saying, Hey, these people are cleared and
they're free for you. And sometimes we'd pull them and sometimes we wouldn't,
but I cannot remember. And I know some of the infamous smallville stories, but
we want to do this.
Those bastards wouldn't let us. I don't think so. I really can't remember any
point where DC was a hindrance. It certainly was all stuff we worked with. There
was never a point where like a story got screwed to the best of my memory
where DC was like, no, can't. We always found our way around it. You know,
we didn't use that. We used tolro, you know, it's, it's, we created somebody
who's going to be used in other comics and things rather than just recycled zod.
And can you just speak to say the process then of, of say writing a season, say
season two or season three, how does it work?
Same pre production. Do all the writers meet and you're kind of given an outlay
of what the showrunners want to achieve in that season and then you come up
with ideas or you individually given episodes or what is the, what's the logistics
of it? There's always a master plan and, but it's a, whether or not that the plan
is, plan is developed by the showrunners and then they come to the writers and
they say, okay, let's flesh it out and you spend a couple weeks hashing it out or
sometimes it's like it's pure blue sky of like, okay, what do we want to see this
season?
That happens both. And I've seen that, you know, I've been on a couple other
shows and it's always a little different, you know, the, the most planned out, I
can think I ever saw a season was blood and treasure season one because the
guys had every beat of that uber arc figured out. They didn't quite know where it
was happening location wise, but they knew what had to happen and we spent
a day laying that out and filling it in. And for season three, Todd and Brent came
in pretty much knowing what they wanted to do with the cancer story. So that
was more there's where season two was kind of like, my memory is Todd came
in and said, I think we're going to do bizarro and then it was sort of filling in, you
know, that and blue skying.
Okay, what's, what's picking up here? And so that one emerged out of more of
a blue sky where's season three comes in with a bit more of a fully formed idea
and fully formed notions of what stories are. And they would always kind of
change and adjust, but there usually is some direction from the top of like,
here's what we want to do or here are the themes of the season and here's the
villain of the season and how they're going to body those themes.
And here's the big bad ad here is Lois's villain here is Superman's villain. Here
is what the boys are struggling with. Probably some degree of that is coming in
and then you as a group are all contributing, you know, to do season two as an
example, you know, Todd comes in and says, I think we're doing bizarro and he
said, I don't know why, but somehow I have the snowshy's coming in from
underground. I'm like, okay. And I'm my eyes light up and I'm like, okay, so if
he's breaking his way out of underground, it's like, that's what you see. I said, I
tell Max, my cohort, I say, get me, you know, man of steel 17 last page.
And I say, if he's trapped and he's getting out and we need him to build a
couple of things like we should end an episode with like the boom, boom, boom
of a fist pounding against the wall. I said, because that's going to mean the
whole audience is going to be chasing doomsday and they're never going to
see bizarro coming and we can shock him with that. And then Max and I have
different memories on that. This I can't remember if I said put him in the green
suit or Max as he said it, we were both on that track. So it might be the thing
where both of us were saying it, but it was like, if he comes out and like, what if
traveling between the universes is such a thing like you need to have him in a
suit to do it so he can come out in the green suit and we can really do it.
So like that whole Mr. X comes out of like, okay, I'm seeing bizarro and I'm
seeing him come out from the ground somewhere. Am I to assume then that it
was, it was your idea to eventually revert him back to doomsday then at the end
of season three or was that was a plan all along? That's just kind of happened
that. That is kind of a Todd question, but I'm my memory is Todd came in and
he knew we wanted to do him stay at the end of season three. I don't, I was not
the one that said doomsday season three. So I'm, I'm, I'm secure in saying that.
And I remember I was picketing with Todd helping, you know, during the strike
after we finished season three.
And there was a conversation where he was like, yeah, you know, I realized
that we kind of came full circle on it where he really was doomsday. So like it
wasn't, I don't think it was, I don't remember any discussion in the writer's room.
We were like, Oh, hey, we've just did it on a really slow boat to, to, to that
destination. It just kind of happened that way. But yeah, I had the doomsday
mislead there. And then yeah, it turned out to be true because we turned
Bizarro into doomsday. I don't know. I don't know who's responsible for this, but
Lex has a line in that episode where he sort of realizes that the more that the
bizarro is healing from every death or something like that. As soon as he said
that, I was like, Oh, it's doomsday.
They're doing doomsday for real. Like it just instantly clocked on my head. But
the finale was all it's always taught in Brent, because usually what happens is
we take so much time in the other ones by the time we get to the last episode,
the lower level writers contracts have run out. So like the end of the season
tends to be the upper levels and specifically taught in Brent, usually. And we've
discussed the ending as a group. And there is sometimes ideas that end up in
there. But you know, we always kind of know where we're going, even if along
the way, you know, stuff changes and shifts it a little bit. But yeah, that was I
feel pretty secure in saying that was Todd and Brent. And it could have come
out of a comic too, because that's the other thing that I picked up pretty quickly
that Todd does is he'll do his research. You know, the year we were doing the
bizarro stuff, he had, you know, a couple different trades of bizarro, you know,
books around, you know, he didn't just want to read the most recent stuff he
was going back to the Silver Age.
And sometimes I would put something in front of him. I'm like, Oh, I see we're
going here. Maybe you want to read this. So like he'll he'll do his research. So
sometimes, you know, I'm just saying I'm not every Easter egg. Max and I aren't
every Easter egg that's put in there. Sometimes Todd will have done his
research and there'll be stuff in there too, because he does care a lot about that
history. Sometimes it's reading it, I imagine just to like know what's been done
so we don't do it and don't repeat it. But sometimes you'll see this stuff kind of,
you know, weave in and go,
Oh, okay, cool. He done deep. Can you talk to us about because we mentioned
the earth prime comic already. We were both huge fans of it, both at both from a
fan service point of view. And also just the stories were beautiful. Can you talk a
little bit about that and how it came about on your process of writing because I
like gather it was quite a personal comic for you to write as well, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was we had three writers from the show was me, JJ, Miss and Andrew
Wong. And we first got involved because DC said, Hey, we're doing this mini
series with all of the on air shows. If you have any writers from your shows who
are interested in contributing, you know, please send them over. And most of
the shows sent to we sent three people.
And determined pretty quickly as a group that doing a straight crossover was
just not an option because at that point, we're meeting at the start of our season
two. A couple of the shows had started working two months earlier, like legends
was way deep into their arc and we were like on week three. And we did know
one thing, which was that we were not on the same earth as them, but we also
could not reveal that until the end of the season, which meant the comic had to
sort of be agnostic in that degree. The comic couldn't reveal it wasn't earth
prime. But so that immediately meant we're coming in protective like, all right,
we're on an earth where like you guys don't exist. And so there's nothing
stopping a multiversal crossover aside from the fact that like a couple of these
shows we assumed were going to go for a while, you know, it would be kind of
screwing the shows to have just as toss out an example, our Superman meet
Barry Allen, the flash
. And then when the show if that we ever did that kind of crossover on the show,
it would be the second time they met and we would have to account for it. So
we're in there saying, hey, if there's a crossover, we got to kind of be hands off.
And then the star girl people are kind of like, yeah, I feel the same. We're on a
different earth. You know, we wouldn't have an encountered view. And then you
have the bat woman people who were like, well, we have a new bat woman like
bat woman met most of these people in crisis, but that's not the same bat when
we have now. So that should probably happen on. So like you have three of the
shows already pulling back of like, if it's going to be a first meeting, we can't do
it in the comics. And so that dictated what they eventually did was the two of the
flashwriters wrote the final issue as it's said in the far future. And these people
have met and just to kind of stay out of our continuity.
So that's just how the structure of it went. And then we all understood that
everybody's assignment was, all right, we're going to get 33 pages in each of
our issues to do what we want. And everybody had a different problem to solve
in terms of how that issue was going to tie into their show, because they
couldn't give us a firm release date. And so our show changes so much in the
process that even if we knew what was happening, even if we knew, oh, this
comic is coming out the same week that episode 13 airs and we can trust that
that's not going to change, we know that as we're working on the third week of
talking, whatever we think episode 13 is, is not going to be what it is by the time
we get there.
So we immediately looked for ways to like, how are we going to tell a story that
is not tied into the season, because none of that is solidified camp. And we hit
on the idea of originally, we were going to do the main story set in between
season one and two. And then, you know, a month later, as we're working on
our pitch to DC, the script for episode 201 comes out. And there's a line in there
that just completely negates the possibility of what we were setting in between
seasons. And so we had to regroup. We got on a zoom at that point, I had come
up with what I thought was our solution to the crossover thing was I was like,
guys.
We can't give him our Superman, but we talked about in the last season, evil
Superman, we were never going to revisit him again. You know, he wasn't even
really a character on our show. He was there as a plot device for John Henry
and for Edge. There's nothing we had no interest in developing evil Superman.
So I went to Todd and I said, can we take him and give him to the crossover
and then they can break him, they can do whatever they want with him. And he
was like, yeah, I said, okay, then the backup story of our issue is going to be the
history of this guy because I had spent most of season one kind of constantly
updating in my head what I thought this guy was as we learned more and more
about it. So I'm like, oh, that's great. I've done the work.
So we'll do that. And I should say Jay and Andrew and I, we all came in with
ideas. You know, we had like 12 ideas and we whittled that down to our best
seven and we presented those to Todd. And I think he killed one or two of them.
So we were left with five, one of which was that. And so we decided, okay, well,
that one's, that one's going to satisfy the crossover thing. And then I said, I have
this idea for the second backup story, which was story about Clark and
Jonathan. And it's a story about, you know, the impact that Jonathan had on
Clark and in making him want to be a journalist. And I think I did hear your guys
episode on it. I think someone sent it to me.
And so it's, it's young Clark and remembering his father always read the paper
and remembering that he was watching all the president's men with his father.
And that all kind of contributed to him wanting to be a journalist. And then we
flash forward to the present day and, you know, Superman is saving a
helicopter. And we see Clark walking down the street towards the new stand
and his narration and saying something like, Oh man, I wish dad could see me
today. I bet he'd be proud. Obviously the misdirect like, Oh, he'd be proud. I'm
Superman. And he buys the paper and we see Superman saves helicopter on
the front. And he turns it over and at the bottom, it's Clark's first byline. And you
know, that, that, that was the thing that is certainly the residents there for, for
people that know is my father died in 2020 of COVID after I was on the show
and after I had gotten the script assignment.
But before we had even shot the pilot. And so he knew he was thrilled for me.
He knows a superman fan. He was excited. And he knew that the network notes
on the first stuff I turned in, they were very excited about, but he never got to
see any episode. And so that was kind of the emotion I was servicing and
writing Clark's story there of like, Oh gosh, I wish dad was here to see it. And,
and so I pitched that and Andrew and Jay, and Todd were very generous and
letting me be that self indulgent and do a backup story.
And then our editor at TC Andrew Marino was a total prince because I said,
Hey, I wrote this for my dad. Can I do a dedication to my dad? And they were,
do you guys do anything like that? And said, Yeah, absolutely. So we have the
last page of that story dedicated in loving memory to Stuart Malinger 1947 to
2020. So everybody involved was great on that. And that kind of dictated like,
okay, I'm doing the backup stories, which add up to about a third of the issue.
The presumption was Jane and Andrew were going to do the main story.
And I ended up writing those mostly solo in part because they were busy
writing their episodes as we had a deadline with DC. And I said, guys, this is the
easiest thing in the world. Let me write these two. I'll take care of that, send it to
DC. By the time they're done with that, I'll be on my episode and then you guys
do the main story yourselves. And then we've kind of evened it out. And it
ended up mostly that way when we had to come up with a new premise for the
main story with like a data pitch to DC. I joked, gosh, why can't we just, you
know, get Dan Jurgens for this and do like Superman 75 or it's all splash pages
because that's so much less to write. And then I'm like, wait, what if we did that?
We do like a splash page, you know, extravaganza in here. And I joke like we
could have, you know, Lewis and Clark like flying off to Hawaii together.
And it's a double page spreader than flying off to Hawaii. And it ended up not
being that in the issue, but it did turn into this back and forth of like, what if the
splash page is like a visual punchline to like, and the premise emerged? Okay,
it's Lewis and Clark's anniversary, their first anniversary as husband and wife,
stuff keeps getting in the way so we can have that fun little relationship pattern
or off to work off to work. So I'm going to see you, I'm so excited. And then you
turn the page and bam, it's a splash page of like Superman fighting giant robots
and that's why you can't get there. And then that works.
And so that's kind of how that story emerged was kind of all in the gag of like,
what are our best splash page punchlines? And knowing that, okay, we're going
to have a great romantic splash page at the end of the two of them having
dinner. And those certainly be a big one of them flying off together and then,
you know, counting up the pages and that. So I ended up with a little more
involvement in the first story than I thought I was going to, but the bulk of that
was still Jay and Andrew. You know, my biggest contribution once we figured
out the structure of it was they came to me for all the villains on the, there's a,
there's one splash page where it's Lewis is predicament and she's caught and
there's six villains who teamed up.
And they said, we need some D listeners partially because it was funny and
partially because we wanted to pick somebody who the show wasn't going to
use later. And so I just, I, you know, that's my tribute to the, the triangle area
and to the burn neighbor right there, I threw in all of the losers you could think of
loophole, Toyman and kill grave. And I snuck sleaze in there because I know
the internet loves complaining about that John Burns story with sleaze. And so
my hope was someone's going to see it and they're going to write a piece and
it's going to be great free publicity for this issue. You know, every climate comic
blog is going to be like,
Oh, I can't believe they put them in there blah, blah. And no one did. Like it was
the one guy, Max Cronick. So I can't believe he put sleaze down like, yeah, but
that was genius. Everybody's going to write about it. And then they're all going
to know that this comic book is out and that's been happened. So was it, was it
you then yourself who, who decided to put nuclear man in there? That was me.
Yeah. I think when we were tossing out, I mean, that was, that was kind of like
we had a, we had a Google Doc open of stuff. And I mean, that might have just
been, I know I would have been the one to suggest nuclear man. And it was a
back and forth like, Oh, who's funny or funny or funnier?
And then I think nuclear man won that argument because nobody else was
going to do nuclear man. But the guys had some other good suggestions. And
the, the robots from the Fleischer one, that was Andrew. I very specifically
remember Andrew had that idea. And I mean, Jay, Jay, James, it was one of
the best writers I can think of it, like thinking visually. And so he has, he came
up with the visual gag of like every time we start the next morning, there's more,
we're going to bring account for the day in the number of flowers and the
chocolates and all of that. We're always going to go back to that as like a visual
reminder of how many times they have just like started over and tried to get
ready.
So there's, there's a lot of that, that part is Jay. And then, you know, the first
ones that mishmash like they wrote the script, but there's a little bit of me in
there. And certainly they have their ticks in there too. We actually had, we had
Mark pillow on the podcast, nuclear man himself. And he, he told us that he was
very impressed with how good he looked in the comic book. Oh, that's good.
That's good. I have not had the pleasure of being in a con with Mark because I
would love to go and get that picture, they get that page signed by him. But can
I ask it? Whose idea was it for them to be fighting in front of the casino royale by
the way? Is that just a coincidence?
Is that car? I can't remember that might have been the guys. I think they just
said he's fighting in Las Vegas. And that might have just been Tom putting
casino royale there. I don't remember for sure. Lo, oh by the way, Lo Bo was,
was Jay. Jay wanted a big, a big, logo fight. So that was where that came from.
But yeah, I don't remember, because I didn't write the actual script on that one. I
just had an idea here or there of like, oh, we should do this. We should do this.
So I, but I think it's in the script.
And I think Tom might have just run with it with casino royale. Just to get back
to Father's Day, there was a question I want to ask you about, about that
particular story, which is a beautiful story and really hit me in the fields. And
when I read it, I think I said that in a review of it. But in the very first page of
that, of that particular story, there's a scene where Clark saves the child from
getting hit by a bus and Jonathan can't, Clark apologizes to Jonathan and
Jonathan's like, don't be silly Clark.
Obviously I'm paraphrasing you. Don't be silly Clark. What were you meant to
do? Let them die or let them be hurt. Was that a conscious kind of a redress to
kind of the similar scene with Kevin Costner, a man of steel? Was that kind of
like, this is what Jonathan would actually say in this kind of a situation, not
maybe. What, what's man of steel? It was, I mean, the answer is surprisingly
controversial to depict Jonathan Kent in the way he has been depicted 99% of
all media, maybe 99.99% of all media.
And yeah, it was just, I wanted to establish our Jonathan Kent, who sometimes
I think gets a bad rap in depictions because they need conflict with Clark. I was
watching some smallville recently and I was reminded why I didn't really like
their take on Jonathan Kent there, who I found to be a little bit judgmental. And I
kind of just wanted something that showed this is a John Kent who would be
supportive of what his son was doing, because you feel like the Kevin Costner
version might be like disapproving of Clark going that public. And I think it's
important to me that Park Kent is not just a moral grounding for Superman, but
that Clark isn't getting up every day thinking, gosh, my father would just be, he
would hate what I'm doing right now, he'd be disgraced.
And in a story about the impact that his father made on him, I thought that was
important. And it also, it's a nice little miss lead because it sets you up to think
that what Clark is going to be talking about in the end is his work as Superman.
It's not, it's his work as a journalist. But I did kind of want to establish what Park
Kent's attitude towards both sides of his son's life would be. And it seemed to
me that it wasn't out of line because in 99% of the depictions, he is the one
supportive and stilling him telling him, you are here for a reason. This is what
you do. This is the right way to use your powers, Clark. It's not to score
touchdowns. I can point, I'm hearing this, you're hearing probably multiple
actors and picturing multiple panels because it's a consistency to Jonathan Kent
across Lois and Clark and across the burn era and the Silver Age that he is the
one telling you, this is how you do good. And so I wanted a scene right there
that set that up
. And in Superman and Lois, the show itself, obviously, Martha and Jonathan
had passed away. And we spoke to Mark Wade about this previously on the
show where Robin and I grew up like yourself with the triangle era and Lois and
Clark and all that kind of, that continuity say where Jonathan and Martha
survive into Clark's adulthood or kind of there as a sound board to Clark as an
adult as Superman. Obviously, you don't have that in Superman and Lois, but
just as a Superman fan yourself, where do you lie with that?
Do you prefer Clark or do you prefer Martha and Jonathan to live into seeing
Clark fulfill his legacy and his destiny? Or do you prefer the kind of version
where they've passed away before that happens? Oh, absolutely 100% I prefer
that they live. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's the right answer. Yeah, no, no. There's
there's some times where you have your cake and eat it too, where you kill Paul
and you let model live for a while is in the Donner film and then eventually in
what is done in the new Krypton era of storytelling.
And I think there's some merit to doing that. But I prefer having them around. I
grew up with both versions because I was reading Silver Age stuff. You know,
it's not just that I read the triangle era and like, this is the only way to do it. I'm
very well aware of what came before, both on film and in comics. And it's just
something that I prefer. Just the same way I prefer that Clark Kent is the real
guy, you know, which is it's Tyler has a very nuanced take where he thinks
there's kind of five facets of how he presents himself, which again to me is still
like, okay, Clark and Superman are both the real guy. It's just the way he
performs.
And I feel like that's a little bit how Brandon played him in Superman Returns. I
think, and eventually, honestly, I think that's where Reeve kind of lands by
Superman three and four is that, you know, there's a little bit more of like the
real Clark shining through the nerd Clark. So I kind of, but I'll always drift
towards versions where Clark Kent is where he gets to be the real guy. And I
think in terms of how that's manifested on screen, I think Tyler and I think
Brandon Ralph did the best job of like convincing us that they're different people
and people would see them as different people without them having to be polar
opposites. And that's what I always look for in a Clark Kent Superman is a guy
who has mastery of both sides and can make them distinct if they're 180
degrees removed from each other, but also making them distinct when they're
like only off by about 45 degrees is a real skill.
And I think our best performers have been able to do that and I think that's I
drifted here from the original question about pocket, but I prefer the parents
being around. I just think it adds a different element to it. I don't know if I'd want
them around on our show because we're at a different stage in their lives. I think
that's the point where Clark and Lois kind of have to step up and be the parents.
So I probably if I was put in charge, I probably would have killed Mott too
because you just kind of want to isolate them and they're far enough along that
if you ever need her, you can go back to flashbacks.
But that's where I stand on that. And what I love about your show then is we
get to spend all this time with Sam Lane who is never really given as much time
or space as he is in this show. And it's great. It's I mean, let's be honest here in
any other depiction, Sam Lane is a complete asshole. There is never a
depiction of Sam Lane where there is any warmth. I mean, crying out loud in the
comics had him committing genocide and they never dealt with the implications
of that. They had him commit suicide as a way out. And I'm glad that we've kind
of added some nuance to where like, okay, I see a little bit of that jerk that I
recognize from the triangle era, it was picked up and other things. But he has
another side. He's trying. And there are certainly episodes where I was on
Lois's side of like, you should never talk to this guy again. And then there are
other episodes where you're like, oh, you know what, he can't help himself. He
is really trying.
And I like he has a legitimate point of view where sometimes where I'm like,
God, Sam, I would never do this, but I at least feel like his motivations are have
some grounding behind them. Whereas in a lot of depictions of Sam Lane, I feel
like he's a cartoon villain or a one note bigot, you know, even in the triangle era,
which has some of the best depictions of his characters. Sam Lane was just the
ugly American father in law who just Clark was never good enough. And it's it
worked for that time and it worked for those stories they were telling, but in a
world where we need Sam Lane to be a regular character and ally, I think giving
some depth to Sam Lane is one of the things I'm really proud of that we've done
on the show.
And I think Dylan Walsh is by far the best actor who has ever played that role.
And I think sometimes he makes him even more sympathetic than he should
be. You know, it's just the gift of a great actor is that gives you a little bit more
rope when he has to do something that you're you don't want to root for. You're
like, well, he's making us believe he's genuinely torn here and that helps. Yeah.
Can I just make this is nothing to do with the writing of the show, but that jacket
Dylan Walsh wears is so damn sexy. Just to kind of leather, biker jacket with the
kind of sheepskin thing on top. I was like, I want that jacket. That's dad goals.
The most the most unbelievable part of season three was when he told Lana
that he hadn't slept the room in the 30 years.
Yeah. Well, I didn't write that line. So I, but yeah, no, he's cool. I unfortunately I
have only had the pleasure of having him. I've went to set twice for for two or
five. I was about to ask that is that do you get to go to the set much as a writer?
Obviously not. No season one we didn't because it was COVID protocols. And
I'm going to take it each one. I promise I will go answer that question. But I, you
know, every year of the show has been in the shadow of COVID and I don't
know if people who don't work in TV can appreciate just how difficult production
is in the middle of COVID.
And so I would be proud of what we have put out there under a normal
circumstances, you know, to do it with both hands tied behind our backs as
what what results from COVID because, you know, at any moment, primary
cast can be taken out. You cannot season one, we couldn't bring guest cast
from Los Angeles. You know, we would have to cast locally. You know, it's,
there's all these restrictions that came with COVID that sometimes when I watch
other shows that were made during COVID, I can see the restrictions and I'm
charitable.
But I'm like, oh, yeah, I see they had to do it because of that. And I feel very
proud that when I watch our show, I don't feel the COVID restrictions stepping
in. Hopefully it's that way for the audience. Hopefully 10 years from now, you're
going to watch the show and nobody's going to remember it was made during
COVID. There are some shows where I'm going to watch 10 years from now
and go, why are they, oh, right, COVID. I did want to make sure I said that at
one point, but going to set, we weren't allowed to do it in season one because
of COVID.
Season two, they started sending us up there. And so I was on set for 205,
which is the, you'll remember is the big Superman bizarro fight and also the
episode with Sarah's Keensonira. So it's a big episode and it was a fun episode
because I got to play with almost all of the cast in there. John Henry and Nat
were written out because we don't have them for all episodes. But everybody
else, not only was involved, but we had three days where we were, well, two
days were shooting interiors for the Keensonira where everybody was in those
scenes.
So the cast is all reporting, but it's a fun day because like after you do a couple
of the wides, you're punching out on short scenes and they're all like two
character scenes like Lois and Chrissy or John and Jordan or Sarah and her
father. And so everybody else is back in the green room playing. And the thing
that you realize is that like a lot of actors tend to have the same scenes with the
same actors. So some of these people are interacting on set for the first time in
weeks, maybe months. And it's play time for them. And it was a great fun party
atmosphere where like, you know, sometimes you have to stop for 20 minutes
to reset and then nobody's working but the crew. And you know, so I would go
back into the green room and I talked to the actors and it was just this fun party
atmosphere of like, some people are taking silly videos, some people are joking.
I'm talking to Tyler and Bitsy about this. The only person who was like really,
really drilling and who I kept my distance from was indie because she had a
gigantic emotional arc that she had to play that day
. And so India is kind of in a corner reading a book and like, it's not even like a
don't bug me vibe. Like whatever her process is, she's going to have to cry for
like three hours this afternoon. And I don't want to get in the way of whatever
that is. So she was the only one I didn't really get the chance to like, you know,
yuck it up with and talk to over the course of those two days. But it's fun going
to set because you're there to actually I'll finish this part of the story and then I'll
talk a little more broadly about it. So knowing that I had this scene coming up, I
reached out to my pen pal and a friend of the show, Dan Jurgens, and I said,
Dan, I'm going up to set, can I send you about a dozen comics to sign and
personalize for the cast?
And I had gathered up. There is an issue. It is a ventures a Superman, a 463.
See, it's 463, 463. I cannot believe I'm missing this up under pressure. It's a
Christmas issue where we discover that Ali, the copy girl at the Daily Planet has
been living there and there's a big editorial homeless for holidays. Dan did the
art, Roger Stern wrote it. It's a great Christmas issue. And I was going up in
November. So I'm like, this is a perfect Christmas gift. So Dan very graciously
signed all 12 of those personalized into the actors for me. And then I put them
each in an envelope with a card, which had Superman and Boston. Superman
has some Boston on it.
And just said, hey, I wanted to bring a gift for my first time. I'm meeting you
guys and I explained to them, you know, it was signed by Dan Jurgens, the guy
who has written more Superman than anybody and who has drawn. He's the
number two artist in terms of prolific. He's explaining who it is. And then when I
went to set that day ahead of the actors, I went to base camp and I said, could
you deliver these to the actors trailers? I guess, absolutely. And so we've been
shooting for a couple of days.
So it's not like I hadn't met any of them, but there were a couple of times, you
know, under pressure, you got to, you know, you don't get to chit chat. Every
one of those actors, when they came in to set, you know, dressed to the nines,
that thing and tell us, they came up. Thank you. That was so nice. Like it was
the best icebreaker in the world. You know, I had not had much of an
opportunity to talk to like, Manuel or to most of the cushing's because we had to
chop one scene. It was really quick. And so like, that was so sweet. Oh, no
one's ever done. Oh, that's so nice. I can't believe you did that. You know, and
the guy's like, oh, it's so cool. It's a comic book. And the title is like, you know, I
don't, you know, I don't like, you know, reading this stuff for doing because I
don't want to hear about it. I'm going to do it.
And it was just, it was the coolest way to break the ice and just set off a really
great warm atmosphere anytime I dealt with the cast after that. They're all
universally nice. There's no asshole. There's nobody who I was looking to call.
She'd go, oh, I got to work with him today. That might be the first Superman
show to be able to say that. You know, I was, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm backtracking
here. What? Oh, they're all there. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have much. Yeah, I
was grateful for it versus book because that's the biggest behind the scenes.
Look at the Superboy we've ever had. So that was one, that was my big stunt
that I pulled the first time I went to set was I'm going there with gifts. And then
the only people who I didn't get to hit up with that were were we'll lay and Dylan
Walsh wasn't in that scene
. So I got to give it to Dylan directly when we were shooting the scenes where
he's training the guys. And he was like, oh, what's this? Oh, cool. Dylan Walsh
is like the only guy I would say he's intimidating, not because he's like tough or
anything. He's just cool. And so, you know, you there's this vibe of like, am I
cool enough to like go talk to him? But they're all great. There's nobody who,
who, but yeah, you go to set and you're there to collaborate with the director to
make sure that, you know, what your showrunner needs is represented. And
you're there to answer questions because like, you know, at this point, you've
done a week of meetings with the director of every department, but you're as
the writer, you're the only one who knows where all of this is going.
So you know that in this confrontation between superman and somebody else,
it's really important that this tone is hit because three episodes from now,
there's the turn in that relationship or something like that. And or you know that
like two episodes ago, you know, you've seen the dailies, the two episodes ago,
they did this and you got to make sure the director knows like, Hey, this thing is
a mini callback. And the actors, we'll probably remember, but you also need to
know is, you know, however you're shooting it, you know, that kind of stuff.
That's what it sort of means.
Okay. I had a wonderful director on mine, a woman named Diana Valentine
who had directed 50 episodes of TV. And she had been in the business well
over 40 years at that point. She was a script supervisor before she was a
director. And before that, she was a stuntman. So I got some incredible stories
out of her. We sit down after rehearsing the first thing and she tells me that she
was, you know, I was Linda Carter's photo double on Wonder Woman. And I'm
like, tell me everything. Tell me it all. She was wonderful. And she did what the
director is supposed to do. She immediately got the cruise respects. They knew
they were in hand with her
pro. But one thing I took note of that she did after almost every take was when
she was ready to move on, she would turn to me and she'd go, how are you feel
about that? Are we good? Did you get what you wanted? She was always
interested in that. And only once was I like, so this line here, I don't think he
needs to play it this way and he's not playing it that way. You know, he needs to
do this. And she's like, well, I think you, I know what you need and I think you've
got what you need. But if it's that important to you, I will go give him that note.
And I said, go give him that note. She's like, okay. And I'm like, great. You
know, because I can only picture someone. This is my second episode of TV.
My first year as a staff writer, first time on set, there are some directors who
would have run rough shot over all of that and just not respected me at all. So
look, I know what I'm doing.
And she made it feel like a collaboration. And I learned so much from watching
how she approached the actors and how she helped them if they were having
trouble with the scene. Or she understood when they had a block on a scene
where they like couldn't understand emotionally and she would know how to
explain it to them in a way that wasn't patronizing at all. It's like, oh, no, no.
Okay. So here's what's happening here.
You know, she was really, really good at it and good at making it feel like a
conversation, not an edict from above. And that was just, I had great gifts on
that episode. I was co-writing it with Reena Mommoon. He's been a TV writer
for like 25 years at that point. She was, you know, a show runner on Everwood,
which was one of my favorite shows. And so when the assignment came down,
you're working with Reena. I would just, you know, it would be like writing a
comic book drawn by Dan Jurgens or Tom Grummit.
You know, it's like, ah, really? I get this? Cool. And, you know, Reena was also
just fantastic as a mentor. And, you know, sometimes when she needed help
with like the lower side of stuff, I would say to be the nerd and do all that. But
she, she knew how to mentor me both in the writing and in preparing me for
going on set. And, you know, here's what your job is. Here's what it is. Here's
what it isn't. You know, you defer to the director on this, but they also defer to
you on that. So it was a great experience as far as the first time on set that I had
so many great people to learn from and our cast is also wonderful. So that helps
too. Yeah, you don't have.
Yeah. There's times we'll have disagreements about a scene and you'll have to
resolve that. But there's nothing like what you hear of on some other shows.
There may be a limit to him, which he can talk about this, Adam. But we do
have to ask obviously the fate of the show is what it is. It's now coming to a
close with season four. Can you talk a little bit about the environment when that
was kind of opened the air and you didn't really know or did you know like, well,
when did that all come about? Did you find at the same time as us? We found
out at the same time as you guys. And we had been on hiatus then, you know, I
mean, the writers, we finished season three, the lower level writers were done
in January.
And the episodes didn't even start airing until March, I think. And the only
assumption always was that, oh, they love us. The show is going to go like, I
thought six years there are people in the staff who thought eight years. There's
never in my mind that we were going to be canceled at three. And then certainly
somewhere in that hiatus, I think it was after I was done before the strike, there
was some quote where James Gunn said, oh, I think maybe two more years.
And immediately, you know, I'm like, well, is he including the season we haven't
started airing yet, but we finished working on? So is he saying season four is
the end or is he saying season five is the end? I always, you know, figured, you
know, four was likely, you know, certainly as we got into the strike and some
shows were picked up and others weren't. That was where I maybe worried like,
oh, are we going out on three? And by that time they had told me, hey, if there's
a season four, you're coming back with it. And, you know, but we were all out
on strike and we were on hiatus at the time when they announced it was it was
forced, you know, for and done.
And the cast is done. Like we, we got, you know, deadline ran with that story so
fast, we didn't have any time to get, you know, noticed ahead of time about that.
So at that point, it was like, you know, whoever I was texting with or calling, like,
hey, did you hear this? Do you know about this? And then certainly once the
strike ended, it was when they could actually engage with the studio. And that
was when they found out that like, oh, all of these budgets were cut, you know,
the people that we thought we had money for on staff, we actually don't. And so
I got, you know, a call from them where they were like, look, we know we told
you that you were coming back.
The fact is that they have slashed the budget. You know, there's only five
people on staff this year. And they gave me a freelance episode, you know, to
compensate for that and make me. And so that's, you know, it's, it is what it is.
Do I feel like I, I just know to be there, absolutely. But that's not, that's not a
thing of people on our show. That is a thing of the studio, you know, paying for,
you know, not, not giving enough money. And I've heard of this happening on
other shows. So you can't really even take that personally because on shows
with giant staffs, they were cut down to like five people, which if I'm going to
jump on my soapbox here for a minute, it's really short sighted. I've never been
on a network show that had fewer than seven people.
And I think they're, you know, I know that the 22 episode season is dwindling,
but like if you're on a network procedural and you're employing only five writers,
that is a recipe to get a lot of shitty episodes. Because it just can't be done. We
had seven, we had, we had eight writers my season on NCIS New Orleans. And
they were doing 24 episodes and there's always a point in the season where
like you look in the writer's room and almost everybody is off doing other stuff.
That's with eight people. When you have five people, you have one of those
people is the show runner. So he's always off doing something else. You're
going to always have someone off on script, someone off on set. And so in a
golden area, usually you've got more than one person off to script. But let's just
say it's a scenario where only one person's on set and one person's off script
. You're left with only two people to break a story in a room. And it's really, really
short sighted. And it's something that is happening in TV now. And hopefully
after a season of this, they're going to realize, well, the little bit of money we
save here is not worth the aggravation of what we're going to have to do. And
some shows are going to have an advantage when they're fully written before
production, because then you can maybe make it work with five. But for the kind
of show that network TV makes its bones on where you're doing more than 18
episodes, it's not going to work for them. It's they're going to find out really fast.
Is it any kind of maybe I'm being ignorant here, but is it any consolation to those
involved in the show that they know that season four is the final season and
they can end it, say as opposed to say Lois and Clark back in the day who kind
of ended on a cliffhanger and they never got an ending at all? Is that any kind of
a consolation or? I don't want to speak for anybody else, but myself. My hunch
is that, yeah, I mean, you always want to go out. It might not be the way you've
chosen the ending, but at least you're going into this knowing whatever you're
doing here, you have to conclude. Like I have to imagine the people who are
back this season, at least are glad to know, okay, well, we're not vamping for
another season here.
This is it. We're better for worse. This is our last word on the show. And so let's
figure it out. I certainly would want those circumstances. I mean, there is there
is a thing to going out as a martyr. Like if they canceled us at the end of season
three and go, hey, look, it's not our fault. Just go blame the network. Everything
would have been awesome. We went out on that rocky three moment between
Superman and doomsday. And to that, we never heard of that. I don't know if it
was a final episode, honestly. It was like the rocky three moment was amazing
a little bit. Yeah, no, it's it's it's, you know, we had, you know, I know that like I
grew up on shows like Buffy where, you know, Josh Whedon saying claimed
that like he wrote every season as its own unit so that if God forbid that was the
end, it might not be the finale he wanted, but you would at least feel like you
were completed.
And so I was glad I don't think people would have felt completed if season three
had been the last word on it. But yeah, I have to imagine that everybody who's
back this season appreciates at least knowing rather than finding out after the
fact. Yeah, by the way, that was your last episode. At least it's not going to end
with a baby being delivered. There's no new news. What the story is with the
baby. We're still asking questions about a 30 years later. That's just my dad and
we don't know. Adam, it would be remiss of us not to ask you about your
adventures during the writer strike. I followed them very closely on Twitter. I saw
you met Kate Callan one of the days when you were striking. You did amazing
work. Can you tell us about some of that?
Like it seems like a very and obviously it was an arduous task, but it was an
historic one and it seems to have been very rewarding in its own way. Can you
talk about that? Yeah, and you go on strike and what you do to support your
union is you go and you pick at the studios. I, you know, Disney Studios was
one of the closest ones to me. So that kind of became my home base. And you
know, it's a Disney, you know, you walk back and forth carrying a sign at the
entrances. It also was one of the few studios that actually had a complete loop
around the neighborhood. So what often happened there was you just walk the
whole loop. You'd walk basically the perimeter of the studio. And I met a
number of people in that time, one of them as you pointed out Kate Callan, who
was fairly, I saw her there more than once.
And in fact, the first time I saw her there, I was like too nervous to approach
her. And then I spent the rest of the week kicking myself. Like, oh, come on.
You know, I mean, not just Lois and Clark, but she's in knives out for crying out
loud, you know, she's, you know, she, she looks younger than she looked in
knives out because she was playing, you know, a 91 year old man's mother.
Yeah. So I mean, she was very, I don't want to like, I know that if I said what her
age was, it'd be impressive people that she was out, you know, walking loops. I
don't remember her exact age. So I don't want to like jinx it by saying the wrong
one. But finally, there was a day where she was there and I went up and I said,
Hey, I just want to say hi. And I'm wearing my Superman caps. I work on the
new Superman show.
You know, I've watched you on Lois and Clark and I thought you were fantastic
in knives out. Oh, thank you. So can I get a picture with you really quick? Oh,
absolutely. And, you know, so I had a picture which I posted and she says, well,
you got to get me on that show. You're on there. You get everybody else on that
show. And we haven't really done like the legacy cameos in part because of the
mentioned earlier, you know, we spent season one and part of season two, not
being able to send people up there. And then there just hadn't been a place for
a lot of it. So you got to get me on there.
You know, I said, okay, I'll talk to him. And, you know, I don't think it'll happen.
But, but she was, she was very, very, very nice. And that was, that was fun.
And, you know, I had another day where I was there with a couple of guys.
There were some of us, I would go to Disney and I would go to one of the gates
and I would spend about an hour and a half walking back and forth the gates
with, with my group of regulars about seven or eight. And then inevitably would
see another writer who I wanted to walk the whole circuit with, you know, so
sometimes that was Mark Guggenheim. Sometimes that was people from our
show.
Sometimes it was, you know, just another writer who I got to know who had
worked on, you know, his credits went back to the Wonder Years. But that first
hour and a half, I would always kind of be there walking with my team. And it
was a day when a lot of the actors were there for like a solidarity thing. And I
turned and I'm like, hey, that's, and I just realized it's a small little connection to
it. So that's Dan Loria over there from the Wonder Years. And like, oh, that's
cool. It's quite such a great talk to him. I said, oh, I don't know. And then next
thing I know, Dan Loria is coming over and he's talking to us. He's like, ah, he's,
you look like writers over here.
And yeah, yeah, I said, and I turned over and said, Dan, I just, I just got to tell
you that Wonder Years is one of the reasons I wanted to be a TV writer. I said,
oh, I'm sorry. And then he just proceeds to just tell us so many stories about,
you know, acting and they all involved Charles Durning, his close buddy. But he
was, he was a character. It was just, it was just 10 minutes of like kind of
busting our balls. There was one point where he was like, you know, you guys
don't let people do any real acting on TV anymore. You know, anthology shows,
that's where it used to be. And I'm trying to like vibe with them. So I go, yeah,
anthology, like Twilight Zone. Ah, you're so young. I'm talking about Playhouse
90s. But he was everything you want. Like I hope by people, the takeaway isn't
that he sounds mean. He was, he was fun. He was the exact fun, curmudgeon
you wanted. And you know, he did 10 minutes with us and then he went and he
walked off with some other people and we all turned out like, did that just
happen?
Did the dad from the Wonder Years just kind of like, you know, bust their balls?
And then certainly there were a couple of days where people from all of the
Berlanti shows would get together. And that was how I met Brandon Ralph and
his wife, Courtney Ford. And that was a funny encounter because we're
standing in off to one area, you know, and I'm with a couple writers from the
show and we see Brandon over there and Courtney follows me on Twitter.
We've interacted a little bit, but I, you know, you never know how often they're
on Twitter. If they would like recognize you off of that. And so I'm like, should we
go over and talk to them? And all the other guys, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I
don't want to bother
. Okay, how about this? I'll go over because Courtney might know me. We've
interacted. Maybe she'll know me from Twitter and then I'll go, okay, okay. So I
walk over and I approach them. And I don't even get as far as high and
Courtney looks at me and goes, you're the bitter script reader. And I have like,
Courtney, you just, you made my day. You're like, recognize, you know, so that
was one of my okay. This is the guy and Brandon, of course, recognizes me as
the biggest world's biggest Superman returns fan on Twitter. He's like, Oh, I
saw you were showing that to your son recently. I was going to tweet at you, but
I was just getting on a plane. How did you like it? And so I'm having this great
conversation with the two of them. And I'm like, can we, I'm here with a couple
of the writers. Can we get a picture with you guys? Oh, yeah, yeah, bring them
down. And so like I posted that too. But there's a couple of us who all got a
picture with Brandon and Courtney. And then there's weeks later, there was an
arrow thing over there and we ended up talking to them and they. Nice people
in the world, like they were, you know, it was, it was just a kick that she
recognized me off of Twitter.
And then as soon as Brandon knew who I was, he had a context for like every
other interaction. Oh, yeah, no, we've talked. Yeah, you said, oh, you got that.
Those were the highlights of I'm trying to think if there's any others. There's a lot
of like inside baseball writer people who I walked with too, but probably not
anybody that people listen to a Superman podcast would be interested. And
finally, Adam, you know, did you have any kind of upcoming projects you'd like
to talk about or anything on the horizon or. No, I mean, this kind of goes, you
know, a little bit with my rant earlier about the state of TV is that I have, you
know, my hiatus, I have been reaching out to a lot of people and even people
who are usually working aren't. And it's a rough time in the business for
everyone. You know, there's a lot fewer shows going right now. There was
always going to be a contraction of shows because the streaming bubble was
going to burst at some point. And those shows are going to go away, but this
feels like an even worse time right now so everybody is looking for work. I'm still
looking for work. And unfortunately, but it both helps and is depressing to like be
reaching out to people way above me, and here they're dealing with the same
stuff because that's telling me it's not just like, oh, I didn't just come off of the
show and I suck.
And it's like, I came off of the show and like everybody needs work, which I
guess is depressing in its own way because if you're going to call someone for
your show, you know, there's a lot of competition out there. But yeah, so at the
moment don't have anything I'm working on specs. You know, every now and
then I bug DC to try to see if there's any interest in a Superman and lowest
comic does not seem like that is likely to happen anytime soon, but you know,
maybe, maybe they'll be interested in having me for for something else. So
that's that's pretty much right pursuing now, but yeah, if you guys got any other
questions I got a little more time if you wanted anything else. Here's one for you
did tell it you flagged it was before we recorded that you can't tell us anything
about season four but here's a more general Superman question if you could
write. If you had carte blanche to write your ultimate all time Superman comic
movie TV show, whatever it is, what would it be.
Well, they were probably different answers for each. So I'll take this opportunity
to soft pitch what I want to do for the comic. Here we go. I did I pitched during
season two. And again, if screen rants is transcribing this I just want to
underline I pitched it and it said no, this should not appear under a headline that
says this almost happened. It never got me to say the words go score them and
baby to be fair we will take any headlines we can get. Okay, okay, so just this
should never appear and this almost happened, but I had pitched early in
season two the idea of a multiverse story that was going to involve the brand
and routes Superman and the Tom Welling Superman.
And there was there were doorways for other characters to be involved, but it
was it was and I don't want to say too much about it because I my pipe dream is
I want to do this is a six issue thing for DC. And it would be, you know, kind of
uniting those three, you know, and, and much like in Spiderman no way home.
It wasn't just that they got these great to his cameos with the actors. It made
sense in the narrative, it was those two because they had unfinished business,
you know, it's, you know, it's, it's the redemption of Andrew Garfield when he
saves Mary Jane. You know, Toby getting to see the redemption of the villains
who who meant, you know, something to him. And so there were reasons in the
storyline why it had to be these two.
And that was an I pitched it and the thought was well, it seems like there's a lot
of guest stars and could be expensive and it would have been in season two
would been a sideline away from what the main arc was. And it's something I
would love to do with a comic book for DC because I would love to see the
Brandon Ralph Superman again. And I think he has kind of an ice arc in this
idea and like five months after I pitched this idea, Tom Welling gave an
interview where he said, you know what, I think I would like to put the suit on.
And I want more time and I'm like, we can get him in the suit, you know what
you're listening to. No, don't just think they'd love to see that so, so that that also
is an element in that story so like, if you guys want to bother DC and tell them to
do this and to let me write it and to. Absolutely we would. Bring back Tom
Grumman to draw it or Dan to draw Dan and I are kind of like email penthouse.
The only caveat is, the only caveat is that you have to draw me in Robin the
comic book. Yes, you just in a crowd because that is my dream to be in a comic
book.
So a Superman comic book so yeah we'll push it. I saw the Superman. Was it
the American read podcast they got drawn into the game. Yeah, yeah they did.
I'm blanking on the podcast now which is a Cape to Wonder. Cape to Wonder
yes I was going to say Superman cinema. Jim and Jay are good friends and
they they fulfilled their dream of getting into the comic book so yeah so the
game is on. Yeah no I there's actually I know there's some legal issues with
that, because the one thing I didn't get to do on earth prime is I wanted the guy
selling the newspapers to look like my dad
. And that was when the editors like that's this too far that so there's whole thing
was legal and clearances. And so, Tom's the guy Tom Drew has a slight
resemblance but it's not it's not close enough that like even people who know
my dad would go oh that's him. Sometimes with with with that there's there's
likeness issues but we'll try. I'll sell I'll sell my likeness. I don't care. I'll give it
away for free. But that's that's an incredible that's an incredible idea like I'd love
to see that and I think that's like from a fan point of view. I think that's kind of
what people naively kind of wanted from the crisis and in for the earth crossover
they wanted to see two three Superman and like we can't complain about
branding rather than that.
So Brandon wrote them that's in that same and that arc because he was
absolutely incredible and no no and I think you know the thing that I took care to
do is to make sure that it was a reason it was that. And you know there's a thing
that kind of bugged me in the flash is like oh Michael Keaton's back, but it didn't
feel like it had to be Michael Keaton it didn't feel like what we saw had a
connection to the Batman 89. So it was kind of in the on star Batman it could
have been the guy from those ads. It was so so perfectly with Michael Keaton in
the film. Yeah, yeah so like that's it definitely was it was keying off of where he
had been left in crisis and the implicatio
n that his life no longer was the darkness that it was when we met him. And so it
would have that was that was kind of the state we were going to find him in a
world where he hadn't gone through all of that we're lowest is still alive. I would
love to do that. I also have this this pipe dream that was never going to get
done. But I it's an idea for Superman many call the clothes make the man and I
would just want to do a series of one shots of divergences in every time in post
crisis where Superman had a different uniform or a different identity and follow
through as if that became the status quo. But what if he never woke up from
being the crypt on man, you know what does that look like, what does it look like
if you know he's he's you know stays as you will reach back to the burn storyline
where he's brainwashing to thinking he's dark side son. Okay, so if he's the
savior and Orion doesn't pull him out of that what what is that that future look
like does he overthrow dark side. That one I'm like that it depends too much on
continuity but I also like guys you should do this, and you should do action
figures that tie in you can get like five or six new Superman action figures and
blah blah blah.
So if they ever come to me with something like that I'll try it and see but I have
a hunch that they're not in so much and looking backward mode in terms of
stories. I don't know if I can't go over the main books but like I always try to think
of like they're not going to bring me into right the main books they're going to
want something I see. So I think in those groups. The only thing I'd say to your
first idea the only thing better than three Superman is for Superman Mr Jerry
Christopher.
Yeah, I haven't seen the rest of Superboy you have to remember you know I
didn't seem. Yeah so it would be a trick of like okay what is he doing in there
because it's also three I think is a good number in terms of joking or joking
aside it is. And that sounds great that sounds. It would be a lot of fun and
obviously you have to come back on the podcast whether that happens or not
you have to come back on the podcast maybe talk about we can review an
episode or do something else but you have to come back it's been it's been
great having you on. It's been great here.
The thing with reviewing the episodes is I noticed when I watch episodes. It's
hard to get lost in them, especially the ones I was on set for, because I mean
intellectually I know what the scenes are doing I know it accomplished what it
meant to accomplish you know I can see like the contributions of my stuff
versus other people because oh actually let me take a minute to address this
because I see this comes up a lot. We all this I could have said this in the earlier
answer. We all have a hand in everybody's episodes you know there's every
episode starts in the writers room and you're breaking it as a group. And so
what that means sometimes is your ideas, your best ideas might end up in an
episode with somebody else's name on it. It also means sometimes the best
idea in your episode is not yours.
And there's always everything is always rewritten by the showrunners you
know sometimes heavily sometimes lightly. And so every now and I see people
talk like oh they snuck this past the showrunner I'm like guys the showrunner is
the last word like if you like this episode. Yes, the credit provider has a lot to do
with it. But like when you go this guy is this guy writes better than the
showrunner it's not a thing, because the showrunner is the last word on all of
this. You know I can definitely point to some episodes ago that would not be
there but for me. That is something I pushed for. And I can also just as a point
of that's a great idea that I did not have. I did want to make sure I underline that
here because every now and then I'll see someone like sizing up the individual
writers and I'm like, it's weird that you know, you're the limited basis on which
you're drawing that you don't have much information. And I'm like, I might look
like the Lana writer because I wrote the one where she's possessed by Laura
and I wrote the Keats and Era episode. And the simple fact is, I didn't write the
Keats and Era scenes in my episode, and the one where she's possessed,
ended up being kind of what we call a Voltron, where three of us had to very
quickly rewrite the episode to acts at a time.
So some of that stuff wasn't me. Some of it was. You look at my most recent
episode, you know there's some stuff there that isn't mean some stuff that was,
you know, well you're in the middle of the season so you there's these balls you
have to carry because you're carrying this episode. And then but I can point to,
you know, there's a small scene at the end with with Clark talking to Jonathan
on the porch, and where he says, you know, you are as Kryptonian as your
brother, and he's as human as you, and I can point to that is me because that
was something I was trying to put it in and it kept falling out and after the first
draft. I went and I said, Hey, this conversation I feel like it's kind of important to
put in there and I think you should say blah blah blah blah blah, and Todd says
well if you can say that in a shorter way
. Yeah, absolutely. And I wrote it and they cut it down a little bit but that's
something I can point to that's me. But like other stuff in there is not me. And I,
since I have the opportunity to say here I'm like, we all have hands in
everybody's episodes, and in success that means you're getting the best of
every writer, or at the very least, you know there's no ego so like nobody's
holding back an idea so they can do it with their episode. And usually, you
know, you know, you know which episode you're writing, and you know in
modern TV you only get one episode of season mostly. And so you know the
season's going to be in a completely different point when it gets to you so
there's no point in holding back, you know your fastball, because that that's all
might not fly in your episode. Sorry, as a tangent but that was we were talking
I'm like oh I should have said this back when you were asking me about writing
the show. I don't want to take unsolicited pitches but I have to say this before
you go. My dream storyline for Superman and Lois was always a guy called
Gus Gorman rolls into smallville
. There was a bit of hacking. And then we find it later in the season that he's
been possessed by Brainiac and Brainiac is the big bad of the season. Oh man,
what do you think. And maybe maybe broad state and liner or something other
Rob wants Rob wants a season that is basically Superman three just stretched
out over 13 episodes. You know we there there are a lot of times we would talk
about characters who ended up not being on the show and certainly some ideas
that came out such that this I'm pretty sure is the first time anybody. Every now
and then people, people like all conduit finished I'm sure every season we had a
discussion about conduit. It's just, you know, and stuff like that you know,
especially as 90s guys there were a bunch of characters who would kind of
come up for discussion every season Gus Gorman did not usually make that list
I'm struggling to remember Gus I feel like we've probably talked about Brainiac.
I have my conduit action figure to hand here actually conduit action figure yeah.
Well Adam again that was fantastic it's been such a pleasure to have you on
thank you so much for giving so much of your time I know I know you're a busy
man and we've really enjoyed your work on Superman and Lois it's been superb
and I presume I didn't ask you this but I imagine it's been great the fan reaction
to the series so far and to the three seasons of Superman Lois because it
seems to be really well have been really really well received by the fans. Yeah
and it's it's one of those it's one of those things that you don't know you know
how to take fan reaction because I'm, as I said I was on the internet in the 90s
and so I know that the last people you want to listen to sometimes I'm going to
find them because I was a part of fandoms when they would say stuff like I got if
they're talking to creators don't tell them that I don't agree with that. And so like
there was definitely an effort on my part like okay well it's nice that people like it
you know what do you listen to and who do you listen to and some of the most
meaningful ones to me or when I have met other members of the Superman
family and I have met a number of the creators from the triangle era and friendly
with a lot of them. And you know the times where I would you know come into
work on a Wednesday morning and I would have an email from one of them
saying, Hey I watched the show last night. I really enjoyed this or this felt like
something we might have done.
And I think that the reactions always meant the most to me and also when you
would meet people out in the world and there was an actual face attached to it
sometimes that means more and that certainly happened a number of times
when I was picketing where someone would see my hat and realize who I was
or at least knew I worked on the show. Oh we love it we watch it with our kids
every time you know my, I would talk to go home and I talked to some of my
mom's friends. And I was like older women in their 60s and 70s, and most of
them maybe weren't Superman fans but they were watching because I worked
on it. And it was always funny getting those reactions because like especially in
season one they were like, Oh, you, we love the show it's great. And that girl
that girl she's so good they were talking about Sarah, you know for whatever
reason Sarah and indie resonated with a lot of the moms and the grandmas
. And so it's nice that when people approach you generally it's positive and yeah
I do pay attention sometimes to win some of the Superman sites like they're the
best ones and what I, what I like is everybody gets their chance to kind of pick
their Superman. And in the better moments, most of the time some fans are
okay with like leaving alone the other groups you know if Lois and Clark isn't
your bag. And at the time I don't see people who are small though partisans
going into Lois and Clark fan base like you guys suck, you suck. And you know
there's a little bit as long as when you're the active one where maybe you're a
little bit more of a punching bag for for some of the others like oh you should be
here but what I had always told especially the kids on the show was that you're
going to be answering questions for the years from now, and I said if you don't
believe me just look up THR where they just interviewed Michael Rosenbaum
and Tom Welling about the 20th anniversary of small though like someday you
guys are going to be on a panel 20 years from now and some guys can get up
and say when I was a 10 year old and I was an awkward kid Jordan got me
through that and there's been some people that relate to what Sarah got
through I said so like I know sometimes our kids get beaten up on social media
and I'm not going to last
. And then for me what I love doing with online fandom is I don't do it with active
shows as much, but I love kind of joining like you know fan groups when the
show's been gone for five years or so, because everybody who like is just there
to hate everything and it's gone and we're all like if I'm in a homicide fan group,
we're usually not devoting a lot of our time talking about how much season
seven sucks, it's going to come up inevitably, but it's not like we're all talking
about God the show sucks these people should die, it's about every mother's
son it's about three men and a dean it's about all the stuff we love. And so you
know when the show goes away I think about five years to be really fun to go
into Superman fandom because it's all the good stuff then and that's yeah comic
book fandom is a mean perilous place sometimes and for the most part they
have been very good to us like even in this state I would say we're like maybe
97% positive. So that's something.
And I hope that the legacy of the show continues in that way we're like 20
years from now, you know we're still going to be talking about it. I have a
hundred. And so for everybody listening it's at all star super fan on Facebook
and Instagram at all star super pod on Twitter and at all star super pod at
gmail.com if you wanted to send us in your voice notes or emails and get them
included in the next metropolis mailbag segment. So Adam again thank you
very much for coming out tonight it's been an absolute pleasure sir. No this was
fun. Thank you so much Adam. Thank you so much and everybody stay safe
stay super
April 12, 2024

Elizabeth “Bitsie” Tulloch, who plays Lois Lane on “Superman & Lois,” has
shared a couple of photos, including the cover of the script for the series finale
of the TV series.
"Superman & Lois" Series Finale
“Tried to take a normal ‘First day of filming the #SupermanAndLois series

finale!’ selfie, but quickly ended up in tears. What a beautiful ride this has been.
So grateful. Especially to our crew – this final season has been tough physically
and emotionally on everyone and I see you and how hard you are working and I
am so appreciative of you all,” Tulloch wrote on Facebook.
The series finale, written by Brent Fletcher and Todd Helbing, is titled “It Went
By So Fast”, and will be directed by Gregory Smith.
Season 3 of “Superman & Lois” ended in the middle of a brutal showdown as
Lex Luthor unleashed his ultimate weapon: a Doomsday created from the
reanimated corpse of Bizarro. Superman and Doomsday clash, their fight
escalating from Smallville to Metropolis and ultimately spilling onto the moon in
a cliffhanger ending. Just as Doomsday gains the upper hand and sends
Superman unconscious through space, Lois’ love and memories reignite Clark’s
will to fight, leaving the epic battle’s outcome hanging in the balance.
Season 4 of “Superman & Lois,” which will be the last for the series, will have a
10 episode count. No premiere date for Season 4 has been announced as yet,
although it is expected to air around September/October 2024.
Another iconic DC character is making tracks for The CW. Expected to premiere
this fall, the fourth and final season of Superman & Lois will introduce Douglas
Smith as Daily Planet photographer Jimmy Olsen, TVLine has learned
exclusively.
Superman & Lois’ incarnation of Jimmy is an extroverted 20-something known

for being the “life of the party” around the office. “Despite being work colleagues
with Clark, he’s been unable to get him out of his ‘awkward’ shell,” according to
Jimmy’s official description. “Unaware of Clark’s super-secret, Jimmy’s still
determined to become his pal.”
Smith is best known for playing Ben Henrickson on HBO’s Big Love and Corey
Brockfield in the second season of HBO’s Big Little Lies. Additional TV credits
include roles on HBO’s Vinyl, ABC’s When We Rise, TNT’s The Alienist and
CBS’ Clarice, among others. On the big screen, Smith is best known as Percy
Jackson’s half-brother Tyson in 2013’s Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters. And,
fun fact: he’s also the younger brother of Gregory Smith (Everwood), who has
directed eight episodes of Superman & Lois.
This marks Jimmy’s first appearance on Superman & Lois, despite the
character previously playing a major role in The CW’s larger Arrowverse.
Mehcad Brooks portrayed James Olsen on Supergirl, which took place on an
entirely different Earth, for six seasons (2015–2021).
Series regulars returning for Season 4 of Superman & Lois include Tyler
Hoechlin as Clark Kent/Superman, Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois Lane, Alex Garfin
as Jordan Kent, Michael Bishop as Jonathan Kent and Michael Cudlitz as Lex
Luthor. Despite the mass cast exodus at the end of Season 3, many familiar
characters are also expected to make guest appearances; some have already
been spotted on Instagram.
Are you excited to meet Superman & Lois‘ take on Jimmy Olsen? What are your
hopes for the show’s final season? Drop your thoughts in a comment below.
Superman & Lois has added Avatar: The Last Airbender and Kung Fu star
Yvonne Chapman as a relatively obscure DC Comics character, Amanda
McCoy, who could pose a major threat to the Man of Tomorrow...
News
By JoshWilding –
Mar 08, 2024
Source: Entertainment Weekly

Entertainment Weekly is reporting that Superman & Lois' fourth and final
season has cast Avatar: The Last Airbender star Yvonne Chapman as Amanda
McCoy.
According to an official description shared by the site, McCoy will serve as Lex
Luthor's "intelligent, cunning, and loyal" ally in his war against the Man of Steel.
She's been leading LuthorCorp during his absence and her business-savvy and
cutthroat nature have helped the company excel during his imprisonment.
"Little is known about her mysterious past," the description adds, "but she's the
only one in Luthor's inner circle that he views as an equal, which makes her a
massive threat to the Kents...and anyone else who stands in her way."
McCoy has only ever been a very minor character in the comics but did manage
to figure out Superman's secret identity while working as a scientist at LexCorp.
She told Lex that Superman and Daily Planet reporter Clark Kent were one and
the same, but the villain simply couldn't believe the Man of Tomorrow would live
as a human; he subsequently fired Amanda and ignored her intel.
Needless to say, she could pose a major threat to Superman & Lois' title
characters (along with the unkillable Doomsday, of course).
Many of you will recognise Chapman for her role as Avatar Kyoshi in Netflix's
Avatar: The Last Airbender. She's also starred in Kung Fu, Family Law, and
The 100.
season 4 "[is] going to blow your minds," and explained the delay is a result of
the show's lengthy post-production process. "I am not kidding, this season is
going to be one of the best shows on TV. I watched the first episode last night,
and it’s gonna make you cry. It’s amazing."
"Because of all the special effects, it could be ready for summer, [but] we feel
like it would be wasted in the summer. So let’s put it in the fall where we can sell
it in the Upfront [and] really, really talk about it."
Superman & Lois was developed by Todd Helbing and Greg Berlanti for The
CW network. Theshow stars Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent/Superman and
Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois Lane. It follows the iconic superhero couple as they
navigate the challenges of parenthood while also dealing with the
responsibilities and dangers that come with being Earth's greatest protector.
Superman & Lois is set to return to The CW this fall.
February 15, 2024
Fans of “Superman & Lois” will have to wait a little bit longer for the fourth and
final season of the TV series to air on The CW.
Brad Schwartz, The CW President of Entertainment, revealed at today’s

Television Critics Association panel that “Superman & Lois” will not return until
Fall 2024 (i.e. September-October).
According to Deadline.com, Schwartz intimated that the final season would be

“wasted” in the summer, as he believes it will rival the rest of the fall broadcast
slate across competing networks.
“I watched the first episode last night,” Schwartz teased. “It will make you cry.”
In November 2023 Schwartz said, “Over the last three seasons, Superman &
Lois redefined both the superhero genre and family drama as Tyler, Elizabeth
and the entire cast effortlessly portrayed these classic characters with new
layers of depth and complexity that had never before been explored in the
Superman universe.”
“We are grateful for the years of hard work and graceful storytelling from the
show’s writers, producers, actors and crew, as well as our terrific partners at
Warner Bros. Television and Berlanti Productions. As Superman embarks on
his final flight, the team is leaving us with an absolutely epic 10-episode must-
watch-every-minute farewell to one of the most legendary CW families ever.”
“While we’re sad to say goodbye to Superman & Lois at the end of Season 4,
we’re grateful for the time we’ve had with our amazing cast, crew, vfx teams,
editors, musical geniuses, and writers. Since the day this show was first
discussed, it was about family. And that’s what was created—on and off
screen,” co-showrunners Todd Helbing and Brent Fletcher said in a separate
statement. “We’d like to thank our partners at Berlanti Productions, DC, WB and
The CW for their endless support and enthusiasm during this journey… and
give a very special thank you to all the fans for tuning in. We’re thrilled about
what we have in store in our final season, and can’t wait for everyone to watch
as Superman, Lois and all our heroes face off against the biggest threat in the
show’s history—Lex Luthor.”
The show’s conclusion marks the end of an era, concluding DC’s run on The
CW, which started with the launch of “Arrow” in 2012.
Andy Swift
February 13, 2024
Chrissy Beppo’s baby daddy is officially back in action. Erik Valdez on Tuesday
posted a selfie from his trailer on the set of Superman & Lois, confirming his
return in the CW drama’s upcoming fourth and final season.
One of the last remaining original scripted shows on the network, Superman &
Lois‘ Season 4 renewal came with a few major caveats. Not only was its
traditional episode order reduced, but only five actors would be returning as
series regulars, leaving fans to wonder how much of the show’s ensemble cast
— including Valdez as Kyle Cushing — would still have a presence on the
show.
With this “first trailer selfie” now posted, we can officially confirm that Kyle will
be back for at least one episode of Superman & Lois’ farewell season. What’s
more, Valdez is using his return as an opportunity to honor his late father.
“I had a chat with our wonderful costumes [department], and they agreed to let
me honor my dad by wearing his signature black boots,” Valdez writes in his
caption. “Kyle’s gonna have a bit more pep in his step and maybe a few more
dance moves this season.”
See Valdez’s full Instagram post below:

The list of former series regulars whose future with Superman & Lois remains
unknown includes Dylan Walsh as General Sam Lane, Emmanuelle Chriqui as
Mayor Lana Lang, Inde Navarrette as Lana and Kyle’s daughter Sarah, Wolé
Parks as John Henry Irons (aka Steel), Tayler Buck as John Henry’s daughter
Natalie and Sofia Hasmik as Smallville Gazette editor-in-chief Chrissy Beppo.
The only five actors returning as series regulars are Tyler Hoechlin as Clark
Kent/Superman, Bitsie Tulloch as Lois Lane, Alex Garfin as Jordan Kent,
Michael Bishop as Jonathan Kent and Michael Cudlitz as Lex Luthor.
Superman & Lois returns for its final season this spring. An exact premiere date
has not been announced.
February 06, 2024

by Neil Cole
The Man of Steel had a great night at the recent 51st Annual Saturn Awards
winning two coveted awards during the course of the evening including "Best
Superhero Television Series" for the hit CW television series, "Superman &
Lois".
The series, which is heading into it's fourth and final season, took home the
award for the second year in a row beating out other nominees including "Doom
Patrol", "The Flash", "The Sandman", "Secret Invasion", "She-Hulk: Attorney-At-
Law", and "Stargirl".
The award for "Best Film Home Media Collection" went to the highly-praised
"Superman 1978-1987 4K Collection" from Warner Home Video which beat out
competition from the "Arsene Lupin Collection", "Irwin Allen: Master of Disaster
Collection", "Mr. Wong Collection", "Shawscope: Volume Two", "Universal
Classic Monsters: Icons of Horror, Volume 2", and "Warner Bros. 100th
Anniversary 25 Film Collection: Vol. 4 (Thrillers, Sci-fi, Horror)".
Unfortunately, the Cartoon Network/Adult Swim animated series "My

Adventures with Superman" which was nominated for "Best Animated
Television Series or Special" lost to the Disney+ animated series "Star Wars:
The Bad Batch" while also facing competition from "Chainsaw Man", "Gremlins:
Secrets of Mogwai", "Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio", "Harley Quinn", and "Star
Trek: Lower Decks".
The 51st Annual Saturn Awards took place February 4th, 2024 at the LA
Marriott Burbank Airport Hotel in Los Angeles, CA. For a complete list of
winners, please visit SaturnAwards.org.
TV News
BY
ANDY BEHBAKHT
With the Arrowverse coming to its end in 2024, the first major update on
Superman & Lois season 4 finally emerges after several months.
Lois Lane herself, Elizabeth Tulloch, shares an exciting update on Superman &
Lois season 4, revealing that filming is about to begin.
The season 4 premiere, titled "The End & The Beginning," is written by
showrunners Todd Helbing and Brent Fletcher.
The premiere episode will be directed by Gregory Smith, who has previously
worked on Superman & Lois.
Superman & Lois season 4 gets closer to finally happening as Lois Lane herself
shares a big update about the final season of the DC TV show. While The Flash
season 9 was the end of the Earth-Prime side of the Arrowverse, the franchise
is officially ending in 2024 with Superman & Lois season 4. Superman & Lois
will be the last DC TV show on The CW, which has been the home of DC
superhero series since 2006 with Smallville.
At the time of this article's publication, The CW has yet to announce an air date
for Superman & Lois season 4. However, following the end of the Writers Guild
of America and SAG-AFTRA strikes in 2023, Superman & Lois season 4 is
officially getting ready to start filming as Elizabeth Tulloch shared the title page
for the final season premiere on Instagram.
Superman & Lois Season 4 Update
Titled "The End & The Beginning," the Superman & Lois season 4 premiere was
written by the showrunners Todd Helbing and Brent Fletcher. "The End & The
Beginning" will be directed by returning Superman & Lois director Gregory
Smith.
Superman and lois cast guide

Superman & Lois is the latest Arrowverse series to join The CW and this is
every new and returning character that will be part of the DC TV cast.
What We Know About Superman & Lois Season 4
While Superman & Lois season 4 is happening, there will be significant changes
taking place as the show goes into its final season. One of the conditions for
Superman & Lois to get renewed was a major trimming of the budget, which
affected both the cast and their episode order. For the first time since Arrow
season 8, Superman & Lois will only have 10 episodes for its final season, as
the previous seasons had between 13-15 installments.
Michael Cudlitz, who debuted as Lex Luthor at the end of Superman & Lois
season 3, will be back, this time as a series regular. However, seven
established series regulars will not be back in full capacity, as Wolé Parks (John
Henry Irons/Steel), Tayler Buck (Natalie Irons), Emmanuelle Chriqui (Lana
Lang), Dylan Walsh (Sam Lane), Erik Valdez (Kyle Cushing), Inde Navarrette
(Sarah Cortez), and Sofia Hasmik (Chrissy Beppo) were affected by the budget
cuts. Some of them will, however, appear in a handful of episodes during the
final season.
In terms of storylines, the Superman & Lois season 4 premiere will pick up right
where the season 3 finale left off as Clark was in the midst of his battle with
Doomsday. Whether or not other Arrowverse players will have any role in
Superman & Lois season 4 remains to be seen for now. Hopefully, as
Superman & Lois season 4 starts filming this week, The CW will start making
announcements for the final season in terms of what viewers can look forward
to in the Arrowverse's final show.
Source: Elizabeth Tulloch/Instagram
January 6, 2024
Since Tyler Hoechlin first stepped into the role of Superman on the small screen
in 2016 in the second season of The CW’s “Supergirl” series, Tyler has worn
various versions of Superman’s costume, and he is most likely to be the one
Superman actor to have donned the most versions of the costume to date. In
this article, I will give a detailed analysis of each of the Superman costumes that
Tyler has worn from his time on “Supergirl,” through The CW’s annual
superhero crossovers, and onward into his own “Superman & Lois” series.
Superman Costume #1 – The More Things Change, the More They Stay the
Same
Tyler’s first Superman costume consisted of vibrant traditional colors of red and
blue – vibrant blues for his suit and solid red for his cape – the colors that
Superman’s costume is renowned for. Starting from the heel of his boots,
Superman’s boots are of a space age design, bulky yet protective, especially on
his shins. Moving up to the belt, the suit has no red trunks, but, in its place,
there is a belt of solid red with hints of yellow and burgundy. The hexagonal belt
buckle is also a solid red color. Moving further upward to the Superman
insignia, Superman’s “House of El” family crest is of a traditional design – an
upside down diamond-shaped construct with the traditional red color for the
diamond and S shape, and yellow behind the S. At the outside of the diamond
are four small notches that, we come to learn, are used to attach an additional
plate with wires to cover Superman’s crest to protect him from Kryptonite
attacks. From there, moving further up, are cape attachments. Two metal clasps
attached to leather straps hold down and secure Superman’s cape, a design
that differs from the traditional cape “under tuck” neckline, a neckline that is
most likely the lowest of its design. The cape, instead of a cloth material, is
made of what appears to be of a kind of soft leather, and its length reaches
down to the heels of the his boots.
Superman Costume #2 – Superman in Black

Superman Black Costume
In The CW 2018 winter crossover “Elseworlds” event, Tyler Hoechlin played a
supervillain known as “John Deegan” (also played by actor Jeremy Davies) who
took the form of Superman and wore a black costume. This costume would
carry over to Tyler Hoechlin’s own Superman series “Superman & Lois” for an
evil version of the character from another universe. This costume is of a general
design similar to his primary red and blue costume from the “Supergirl” series,
but with some noticeable differences. First, the color is black with slight hints of
white. This includes the boots, which are more of a traditional design instead of
the “spaceman” style of his first costume; and they are also black instead of the
traditional red color. Moving up to the belt, like his previous costume, the belt
buckle is of the same polygonal shape. However, the color is black and the belt
cord has hints of white. Past the belt, and up to the “S” crest, we see that there
is a mix of both white and black borders for the diamond. As with the previous
costume, there are four small notches outside the borders of the diamond.
Inside of the diamond is a solid black “S”, with a solid white background. Moving
up to the cape, like the earlier costume, there are bulky leather strap cape
attachments, with buckles to keep the cape in place. Moving further up to the
neck, there is a novel collar added to the costume (this is a first in the design of
a live action Superman costume).
Superman Costume #3 – Retro to the Max

Fleischer Costume
On February 23, 2021, “Superman & Lois” premiered with a super surprise for
its viewers. For the first couple of minutes into the TV show’s premiere, Tyler’s
Superman was shown wearing the classic Max Fleischer Superman costume
(from the 1940s Superman serials). Starting at the boots, we see a traditional
design departing from the clunky spaceman style that was seen in the
“Supergirl” series and in The CW’s “Elseworlds” and “Crisis on Infinite Earths”
crossovers. The color of the boots is a classic red. Moving up to the costume
itself, a solid sky blue is used for the legs, torso, chest, and arms of the
costume. However, this costume is the only one so far to incorporate the classic
red trunks. Along with the trunks, there is a red belt with a gold or yellow oval
belt buckle. On the chest is the inspired cartoon classic Max Fleisher Superman
emblem – a yellow bordered diamond with a big red “S” with a black
background. The red cape is now attached under the neckline of the costume in
a classic style. The fabric cape looks to be made of a cloth material rather than
the leather texture from previous costumes. Also, the length of the cape has
been raised from the level of the heels to the level of the calves. The neckline,
too, is higher than in the previous red and blue costume.
Superman Costume #4 – Another Upgrade

Season 2 Costume
As Tyler’s Superman progressed through the remainder of the first and second
season of “Superman & Lois,” he transitioned to a costume that vastly differed
from the costume that he had worn on “Supergirl,” in the crossovers, and in the
beginning of the “Superman & Lois” series. Like his Fleischer costume, the
boots were of the traditional red boot design. Moving up, we see that the
primary color of the costume is what can be described as a navy blue or royal
blue shade. There are no red trunks, but, instead, a red belt. However, unlike
the costume that Tyler had worn in the “Supergirl” series and crossovers, this
belt has similarities to the belt that Superman wore in the Rebirth comic books.
The contour of the belt has a bit of a “v” curvature to better form itself to Tyler’s
waist, a solid red color is used for the belt strap with hints of yellow, and the belt
buckle is a red diamond shape with a slight swirl of yellow within its center.
Moving up to the “S” insignia, Superman’s logo is now smaller than on his
previous costumes. The design of the insignia is the traditional one, but the red
diamond with red “S” is of a burgundy color with a yellow background. Unlike his
previous costumes, the insignia’s design appears to be part of the stitching of
the fabric, rather than a separate pattern that was added on. [A side note about
the insignia area: This costume was met with some criticism, due to the
appearance of what seems to be a bit of added padded muscle to the chest.]
Moving up to the collar, the neckline is higher than all of Tyler’s previous
costumes at the base of the neck. As with his Fleischer costume, the red fabric
cape appears to be tucked under his neckline.
Superman Costume #5 – How Bizarro

Bizarro Costume
In season two of “Superman & Lois,” Tyler also played the role of his
Superman’s counterpart, Bizarro, a being from a parallel universe. Bizarro
Superman’s costume is basically the same design as Tyler’s first and second
season costume, but with a few modifications. The colors of the entire costume,
including the boots and belt, have been muted. The diamond crest is reversed,
the colors of the diamond as well as the “S” are toned down, and the yellow
background is a faded yellow. The cape is torn in multiple areas. In addition,
Bizarro wears a pendant that belongs to his world’s Ally Allston in hopes of
preventing her from acquiring it and ultimately becoming Parasite.
Superman Costume #6 – The Man of Tomorrow
Season 3 Costume
The most recent version of Tyler Hoechlin’s Superman costume has some
improvements over his previous ones. While the traditional colors of red and
blue remain, the costume has less muscle padding, giving Tyler more of a
natural muscle silhouette. The boots are relatively the same, but with an “M”
formation in the front of the shins. The belt is now a solid red, and the belt
buckle (which resembles Superman’s diamond crest) is entirely red. However,
looking closely there is a lined tracing of Superman’s “S” insignia hidden within
the red colored belt buckle. Moving up to the chest insignia, the design hasn’t
changed much except for its size (slightly bigger). Also, instead of it being a
rather two dimensional part of the fabric pattern, the insignia is now made of a
separate textured material, giving it a 3D design that pops out of the costume.
And finally we look at the collar. It is now lowered – not to the extent where it
had been in the “Supergirl” series, rather, lowered to a traditional style for
Superman. The cape is tucked in, and reaches as low as the back of the calves
of the boots.
As we look forward to the fourth and final season of “Superman & Lois,” it is yet
to be revealed whether Superman will continue using the same costume as
seen in the show’s third season, go back to wearing a previous costume, or
wear a new costume entirely. What fans can expect is that Superman will
continue to be who he has always been in any costume – a hero who stands for
hope and gives hope, and will continue do so for his final adventure.
Author: Michael Moreno
KryptonSite offers ten hopes for Superman & Lois Season 4 in 2024.
December 31, 2023

By Craig Byrne
2024 is almost here, and at some point in the new year we will be getting the
fourth and final season of the Superman & Lois TV series. The CW has not yet
announced a premiere date, but especially considering the new season hasn’t
started filming yet, it may be late Spring or Summer before we see our favorite
characters again for one last 10-episode run.
To celebrate the new year, though, we’re listing our Top Ten Hopes for the final
season of the series…. things we’d like to see or not see in 2024. Here goes!
#1. Superman Lives… though I’d also accept a “Reign.” Sure, the Season 3
finale didn’t look too encouraging there, but it’s not like The CW’s new budget
would be so cheap that they’d get rid of Superman. The show is called
Superman & Lois, after all! We better see Tyler Hoechlin and that “S” again
pretty swiftly… though if they want to do a “Reign of the Supermen” with Tyler
playing an Eradicator and a Cyborg version of Superman, I might allow it. We’ve
already got John Henry Irons/Steel and surely The CW casting folks could find a
fun Superboy. This story has never been fully adapted in live action and it’s a
key part of my Superman comics reading experience. (If you’ve never read
“Triangle Era” Superman comics, you are missing the best of Superman’s 85-
year run!)
#2. No more Superman vs. Superman. Now, obviously if they did “Reign of the
Supermen” I’d take this wish away, but in three seasons + Crisis and
Elseworlds crossover appearances, Superman & Lois has managed to have
Tyler Hoechlin fighting another Tyler Hoechlin Superman like 8 different ways,
or playing different “evil” versions of Superman. Enough with that already! It’s
the same trap The Flash would run into with different speedster villains every
season. Variety can be good, and while part of me would love to see other
Superman actors from across the multiverse show up, such as Brandon Routh
or Tom Welling, I’m honestly pretty Multiverse-d out at the moment.
#3. Other Kryptonite. Blue, red, rainbow… we haven’t seen too many variations
of these on Superman & Lois, and it might be cool, and so specially Superman.
#4. Continued presence for some no-longer series regulars. Like many, I’m
bothered by the demotions of several actors who were series regulars on the
series, now being guest stars. With a few exceptions, we don’t know how much
they will show up again… but it would be a real shame to not have John Henry
and Nat around, and while I am 100% against more Jordan and Sarah angst, I
really want Sarah to stick around. They’re a part of the tapestry that makes the
show good, just like the Kents are.
#5. A better costume for Jordan. He looks like a huge dork with those goggles…
sorry, Alex. Give him something cool!
#6. Let the family be happy! Sometimes I feel like Lois and Clark hate their
children, with the amount of times they yell at them every episode. After how
emotionally taxing Season 3 was especially, I hope the Kents get to have fun
sometimes. Remember the time they were painting the house together and
Superman had to go do a save with paint all over his hand? That was charming
and cute. More please.
#7. Metropolis and the Daily Planet. The Daily Planet is as important to the
mythos as Lois, Clark, Perry, and Jimmy are. A return to the great metropolitan
newspaper would put Lois back at the top of her game, especially now that the
paper isn’t owned by a bad guy anymore (that we know of… I mean, Lex Luthor
might try something). If the Planet isn’t available, WGBS will do! And hey…
maybe if Jordan is following his father’s side of things, Jonathan could take an
interest in journalism and start working with his mom?
Beyond that, it appears the Kent Farm house is taken down. It could just be
relocated, or they might just use stock footage from here on out, but if it’s gone,
it might be worthwhile to go to a new setting for Season 4… returning the Kents
to Metropolis. Also – let’s see the show’s version of Jimmy Olsen, now that we
know the show isn’t on Earth-Prime.
#8. An actual conclusion. We know Season 4 is the last; the show isn’t moving
anywhere else, and The CW isn’t renewing it after the ten episodes of Season
4. For those of us who have stuck with the show for all four years and 50+
episodes, I want a satisfying ending. Don’t leave us on a cliffhanger. Imagine if
the 2023 strikes made the studio and network decide “we’re not doing Season 4
after all.” That would have sucked.
#9. A set visit for KryptonSite. Set visits seem to have fallen by the wayside, but
it would be so cool to visit and interview the cast as we go into Season 4.
Apparently there was a trip considered prior to Season 3, but we weren’t
included on that list.
#10. A flash forward. As DC welcomes David Corenswet as their new

Superman, combining with my own personal hopes for a happy ending, I’d love
to get a glimpse into the future to see Clark and Lois happy decades from now,
their children continuing their legacy. The Superman and Lois of Earth-
WhateverThisIs deserve it.
There are surely other things that could have made this list — “Uncle Tal,” a
Jordan Elsass cameo, and Supergirl being high on the list — but I’m sticking to
ten with this one. What do you think? Leave your wishes for the final season on
the KryptonSite Forums – registration i
Filming dates for Superman & Lois Season 4 have been revealed.
December 25, 2023
By Craig Byrne
KryptonSite has obtained some production information for the upcoming fourth
season of Superman & Lois.
Currently, Superman & Lois Season 4 is scheduled to begin filming on

Thursday, January 11, 2024 and it will end on April 22. This is, of course, the
final season of the popular series, and those dates are always subject to
change. A premiere date for Superman & Lois Season 4 is not yet announced,
though we are assuming it will air Summer 2024 at the soonest.
In addition to the filming dates, KryptonSite has learned that Gregory Smith is
scheduled to be directing the Season 4 premiere. Gregory Smith was the
director for the most recent season finale, so he’s a great choice to helm
whatever is coming next.
The cast list for Superman & Lois Season 4 is a bit shorter than previous years,
as many of the series regulars have been let go due to budget considerations.
With that said, many of those who have departed are expected to show up as
guest stars in the ten-episode season. Currently, the fourth season will star
Tyler Hoechlin (Clark/Superman), Elizabeth Tulloch (Lois Lane), Alex Garfin
(Jordan Kent), Michael Bishop (Jonathan Kent), and Michael Cudlitz (Lex
Luthor). Be sure to follow us on Twitter at @SupermanLoisTV or @KryptonSite
for more Season 4 updates as they come in!
December 14, 2023

The Hollywood Health & Society (HH&S) has presented The CW’s “Superman
& Lois” with a Hollywood Sentinel Award in recognition of the breast cancer
story covered in the show’s third season.
In the Season 3 story Lois Lane is faced with a diagnosis of breast cancer and
must undergo chemotherapy and a mastectomy. Elizabeth Tulloch, who plays
Lois Lane on the series, attended the WGA Sentinel Awards earlier this week,
accepting the award on behalf of the cast and crew of “Superman & Lois”.
“It was such an honor for Superman & Lois to accept a Hollywood Sentinel
Award for Lois’s breast cancer storyline at the WGA Sentinel Awards,” Tulloch
wrote on Twitter. “The EPs, writers & I worked very closely this season with
oncologists, surgeons, survivors, & the families who love them.”
Bitsie Tulloch
Season 4 of “Superman & Lois,” which will be the last for the series, will have a
10 episode count. No premiere date for Season 4 has been announced as yet.
Adam Holmes
December 1, 2023
Last month, it was announced that Superman & Lois will be ending on The CW,
but even before that news came in, it’d been made clear that Season 4 is
delivering some major shakeups. Chief among them was the fact that seven
actors had been cut from the main cast, and Dylan Walsh was the first of this
group to be revealed. However, if you’re like me and enjoy seeing Walsh play
Sam Lane, you’ll be glad to know he’s reportedly still set to appear in the final
season.
According to the Be More Super podcast, Walsh is set to appear in two

episodes of Superman & Lois Season 4, although it’s unclear if these will be
towards the beginning or end of the season, or if said episodes will even be
grouped together. Either way, assuming this information is accurate, at least we
have another former main cast member from the show who’s set to pop their
head in for this last round of superhero action. Back in July, Inde Navarrette
shared that she’ll reprise Sarah Cortez for three episodes, as well as stated that
“a few other people” would join her in stopping by Season 4 as guest stars
rather than main cast members.
It’s especially good to hear about Sam Lane supposedly appearing considering
that his fate was left uncertain in the end of the Superman & Lois Season 3
finale, a.k.a, “What Kills You Only Makes You Stronger.” Sam was supposed to
go on a date with a woman he met online named Gretchen, but it turned out that
she was working for Michael Cudlitz’s Lex Luthor, who was finally introduced in
the episode prior, “Injustice.” Gretchen abducted Sam and delivered him to
Luthor, but we never saw whether he was killed or just left tied up somewhere.
Now granted, there is the slim possibility that Luthor did order Sam to be killed,
and Dylan Walsh will only reprise his character through flashbacks, visions,
dreams, that sort of thing. But the optimist in me is thinking that Sam will make it
out of this predicament alive. However, then there’s the matter of explaining
why he won’t be as regularly present in his daughter, son-in-law and grandsons’
lives this season, though that goes for a lot of other characters on this series
too.
Among the things we know about Superman & Lois Season 4 is that the main
cast will solely consists of Tyler Hoechlin, Elizabeth Tulloch, Alex Garfin,
Michael Bishop and Michael Cudlitz. In addition to this smaller lineup, the final
season will consist of just 10 episodes. No plot details have been revealed yet,
but we can at least count on the fight between Hoechlin’s Man of Steel and
Doomsday to be resolved.
As things currently stand, Superman & Lois’ final season isn’t expected to
premiere on The CW until sometime in the summer portion of the 2024 TV
schedule. We’ll keep our ears open for more updates, but remember that in the
meantime, the show’s first three seasons can be streamed with a Max
subscription.
November 15, 2023
It looks like the fourth and final season of “Superman & Lois” may be moving
away from Smallville.
A farm on River Road West in Ladner (British Columbia, Canada) had been the
permanent filming location of the Kent Farmhouse in Smallville for three
seasons of the TV series “Superman & Lois”. Now that set is gone!
The Superman Homepage received confirmation from the Ladner Business

Association that the Kent Farmhouse, which has been an integral part of the
series, serving as the backdrop for key moments in the lives of Clark
Kent/Superman and his family, has been taken down.
It’s unclear if this means they won’t be using the Kent Farmhouse location in
Season 4 or if they’ll be using existing footage for any exterior shots… It may
also signal a possible move back to Metropolis for the Kents, especially in light
of Lex Luthor’s recent injection into the storyline.
As the production team works on bringing the fourth season to life, fans will
have to wait patiently for more details on how the absence of the Kent
Farmhouse will shape the storyline. Whatever the reason, change is on the
horizon for “Superman & Lois”.
With a total of 10 episodes, the fourth and final season of “Superman & Lois”
will premiere some time in 2024.
Adam Holmes
November 13, 2023
Tyler Hoechlin's Superman floating in the air.
Although the main Arrowverse continuity wrapped up in 2023 with the

conclusion of The Flash, there is a holdover tied to The CW franchise that’s still
airing. Superman & Lois premiered on February 23, 2021, and while it was
originally believed to take place in the same universe as The Flash, Arrow,
Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman, Supergirl and Black Lightning (those last two
being post-Crisis retcons), the Season 2 finale revealed this show actually took
place in a different reality. Nevertheless, S&L collected a lot of fans over its first
three seasons, and they can look forward to a fourth season airing on their
small screens.
So what’s on the docket for Superman & Lois Season 4? That’s what we’re here
to go over, as a decent amount of information has been shared with the public
about what’s in store for this next batch of episodes.
It was reported by outlets like THR in June 2023 that Superman & Lois Season
4 was moving forward. However, at the time of this writing, an official premiere
date hasn’t been announced yet. Like so many film and TV show productions in
Hollywood, the show has been impacted by the 2023 writers and actors strikes.
While the former has concluded, meaning that the writers (more on them later)
can finally start crafting Season 4’s story, obviously shooting can’t begin until
the actors are back at work.
Perry Sook, CEO of Nextstar Media Group, the company that now controls The
CW, discussed the program and more during a quarterly earnings call with Wall
Street analysts that took place in August 2023 (via Deadline). The exec stated
that the longer these strikes went on, Superman & Lois, as well as fellow
renewed series All American, All American: Homecoming and Walker, would
“get pushed further and further into 2024.” Then the following October, THR
stated that the earliest S&L Season 4 would premiere is sometime in summer
2024 “to allow time for visual effects work.”
You can’t have Superman & Lois without its titular two protagonists, so
naturally, Tyler Hoechlin and Elisabeth Tulloch will respectively reprise Clark
Kent/Kal-El and Lois Lane in the new episodes. The two actors originally played
the main Arrowverse’s versions of Clark and Lois, most notably in the
"Elseworlds" and "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crossovers, but now, they keep busy
the days playing these other versions of the characters.
It would also be weird if the drama series continued but the main protagonists’
sons weren’t around anymore. Well, fans don’t have to worry about that either,
as Alex Gavin and Michael Bishop will be back as twin brothers Jordan and
Jonathan, respectively. Bishop took over as Jonathan in Season 3 following
Jordan Elsass’ departure after Season 2.
Michael Cudlitz debuted as Lex Luthor in Superman & Lois Season 3’s
penultimate episode, with this version of the longtime comic book villain being
freed from prison after 17 years following the discovery that he’d been framed
by for the murder of Boss Moxie by Bruno and Peia Mannheim. Luthor didn’t
waste anytime enacting his revenge plan not just on Superman (which we’ll talk
more about in the next section), but also on Lois, whose reporting on this crime
played a big role in him being thrown behind bars.
So much groundwork was laid for Lex Luthor in the final chunk of Season 3 that
it would’ve been weird if he hadn’t returned for Season 4. Fortunately, not only
will that not be the case, but Michael Cudlitz will be a series regular alongside
Hoechlin, Tulloch, Garfin and Bishop.
Season 4 Will Resolve The Doomsday Fight

In Superman & Lois Season 2, a character fans initially thought was Doomsday
because of the bodysuit he was wearing actually ended up being the Supes
from the Inverse World, i.e. this show’s version of Bizarro. This version of the
Man of Steel was killed by Mitch Anderson when he was juiced up on X-
Kryptonite, but Intergang later stole his corpse on Bruno Mannheim’s orders
and managed to revive him. After Mannheim’s incarceration, this now-feral
Bizarro was found by Luthor and captured yet again, and the bald antagonist
learned that each time he killed the creature with X-kryptonite weapons, it would
keep evolving into something that became even harder to kill.
The result was, ironically, the creation of Doomsday, whom Luthor sent to kill
the main Superman as revenge for all the times the Man of Steel had interfered
in his criminal pursuits. The battle became so intense that Doomsday carried an
unconscious Kal-El out into space, but the hero woke up in the nick of time and
managed to get them onto the Moon by the end of Superman & Lois Season 3.
Needless to say, this fight will be resolved at the start of Season 4, though
what’s unclear is if Doomsday will continue to appear or if he’ll be permanently
defeated.
Remember when I said that Nextstar now controls The CW. Well, the change in
ownership resulted in a major overhaul that, as also previously mentioned,
resulted in all but four of the network’s originals being cancelled as The CW
starts pivoting to more unscripted shows, syndicated content and other cheaper
programming. But those remaining shows aren’t escaping entirely unscathed
either, as they’ve had their budgets significantly trimmed down. This resulted in
the writers room being cut down to just five people rather than eight, according
to Deadline, but the audience will notice the smaller budget reflected in more
noticeable ways.
Shortly after Superman & Lois’ Season 4 renewal was announced, Leslie
Borque Walsh posted on Instagram that her husband Dylan Walsh’s character,
Sam Lane, had been cut from the main cast due to “budget.” A day later,
Deadline reported that six more actors were cut from the main cast:
Emmanuelle Chriqui, Erik Valdez, Inde Navarrette, Wolé Parks, Tayler Buck
and Sofia Hasmik. A few weeks later, Navarrette shared on TikTok that she and
some of her casemates are set to appear in three Season 4 episodes as guest
stars, but it’s unclear which other actors will return and which ones won’t be.
Superman & Lois’ first two seasons consisted of 15 episodes each, whereas
Season 3 consisted of 13 episodes. Because of the budget cuts, Season 4 will
consist of just 10 episodes, making it one of the shortest seasons for a CW
show ever. Still, that will ideally be enough time to accomplish the final item on
this list.
On November 2, 2023, The CW announced that Superman & Lois was ending
with Season 4, though this move wasn’t entirely surprising. Along with the
budget reduction, The CW’s been drastically changing the kind of content it
offers following the Nexstar acquisition, which includes moving away from
scripted shows and delivering more unscripted programming, sports and shows
acquired from other sources. Additionally, the new DC Universe franchise is
launching in the next few years, and all the shows tied to that continuity are
available exclusively to Max subscribers. So the chances of this show
continuing into Season 5 were slim, but at least the writers have enough time to
craft a definitive ending rather than leave fans with any unresolved plot threads
due to a sudden cancellation.
So with the beloved show ending, we’ve reached the end of an era, as this will
officially mark the end of the Arrowverse. Still, there’s plenty left to be revealed
about final outing, so we here at CinemaBlend will let you know when more
details about Superman & Lois Season 4 are shared.
By Denise Petski
Senior Managing Editor
November 2, 2023
Bettina Strauss/ CW/Courtesy Everett Collection
The end is in sight for Superman & Lois. The CW series, starring Tyler Hoechlin
and Elizabeth Tulloch as the title characters, will conclude with its upcoming 10-
episode fourth season, marking the end of the DC series’ era at The CW. The
final season is slated to air on The CW in 2024.
“Over the last three seasons, Superman & Lois redefined both the superhero
genre and family drama as Tyler, Elizabeth and the entire cast effortlessly
portrayed these classic characters with new layers of depth and complexity that
had never before been explored in the Superman universe,” said Brad
Schwartz, President of Entertainment, The CW Network. “We are grateful for
the years of hard work and graceful storytelling from the show’s writers,
producers, actors and crew, as well as our terrific partners at Warner Bros.
Television and Berlanti Productions. As Superman embarks on his final flight,
the team is leaving us with an absolutely epic 10-episode must-watch-every-
minute farewell to one of the most legendary CW families ever.”
It has been tough going for Superman & Lois, combined with the strikes and
budget cuts that came with the series’ Season 4 renewal. As we previously
reported, those cuts impacted the writers room, which underwent downsizing for
the upcoming season, going from eight writers down to five.
Superman & Lois, along with All American: Homecoming were renewed in June
after producing studio Warner Bros. Television agreed to deliver the new
seasons at a significantly lower license fee to make them feasible for the
network under its new lower-cost original programming model. For the shows to
still make financial sense for the studio, their budgets were slashed, leading to
cast reductions, with not all of the series regulars asked to come back full-time.
Superman & Lois also is more expensive than other CW original dramas due to
extensive special effects, so the cuts on the show were deeper. Only four of the
12 Season 3 series regulars, Tyler Hoechlin, Elizabeth Tulloch, Michael Bishop
and Alex Garfin, are coming back for Season 4.
“While we’re sad to say goodbye to Superman & Lois at the end of Season
Four, we’re grateful for the time we’ve had with our amazing cast, crew, vfx
teams, editors, musical geniuses, and writers. Since the day this show was first
discussed, it was about family. And that’s what was created—on and off
screen,” said executive producers and co-showrunners Todd Helbing and Brent
Fletcher. “We’d like to thank our partners at Berlanti Productions, DC, WB and
The CW for their endless support and enthusiasm during this journey…and give
a very special thank you to all the fans for tuning in. We’re thrilled about what
we have in store in our final season, and can’t wait for everyone to watch as
Superman, Lois and all our heroes face off against the biggest threat in the
show’s history—Lex Luthor.”
RELATED: ‘Superman & Lois’: Dylan Walsh & Emmanuelle Chriqui Among 7
Cast Members Not Returning, Michael Cudlitz Promoted To Regular For
Season 4
Based on the characters from DC created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster,
Superman & Lois is from Berlanti Productions in association with Warner Bros.
Television, with executive producers Greg Berlanti, Todd Helbing, Sarah
Schechter, Brent Fletcher, and Geoff Johns.
Nellie Andreeva contributed to this report.
The news comes as producers Warner Bros. TV is clearing the decks of DC

shows to make way for the James Gunn era.
BY LESLEY GOLDBERG
NOVEMBER 2, 2023
Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois Lane and Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent in Superman
and Lois.
It’s the end of an era: Superman & Lois will take one final flight on The CW.
The Nexstar-backed broadcast network on Thursday announced that the

upcoming fourth season of the DC Comics drama from exec producer Greg
Berlanti will be its final run. The 10-episode final season starring Tyler Hoechlin
and Elizabeth Tulloch will air sometime in 2024.
“Over the last three seasons, Superman & Lois redefined both the superhero
genre and family drama as Tyler, Elizabeth and the entire cast effortlessly
portrayed these classic characters with new layers of depth and complexity that
had never before been explored in the Superman universe,” said Brad
Schwartz, president of entertainment at The CW. “We are grateful for the years
of hard work and graceful storytelling from the show’s writers, producers, actors
and crew, as well as our terrific partners at Warner Bros. Television and Berlanti
Productions. As Superman embarks on his final flight, the team is leaving us
with an absolutely epic 10-episode must-watch-every-minute farewell to one of
the most legendary CW families ever.”
The decision to conclude the superhero drama comes as producers Warner

Bros. TV is clearing the decks of its DC Comics shows that fall outside of the
universe currently being constructed by James Gunn. Berlanti, who launched
The CW back into the superhero space with the Arrow universe of shows, laid
the foundation for what became a full slate of shows that helped to redefine The
CW under former CEO Mark Pedowitz.
Superman & Lois is the last of the Berlanti-produced DC Comics roster that
previously included Gotham Knights, Batwoman, Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow,
Supergirl, The Flash, Black Lightning, Stargirl as well as made-for-streaming
shows Titans, Doom Patrol and Constantine (which originated on the now
defunct DC Universe before migrating to Max).
Gunn and Peter Safran were installed last year as co-head of DC Studios and is
following the Marvel blueprint of unifying its film and TV titles into one shared
universe, an opportunity that was off-limits to Berlanti during his tenure with DC.
Gunn and Safran are readying a Superman movie that the former will direct with
David Corenswet as Clark Kent and Rachel Brosnahan as Lois Lane. Other DC
characters played by Xolo Maridueña (Blue Beetle), Viola Davis (Amanda
Waller) and John Cena (Peacemaker) will continue in the shared universe. The
DC studio’s previous regime will end in December with the feature Aquaman
and the Lost Kingdom.
As for The CW, after Nexstar took on oversight of The CW from CBS Studios
and Warner Bros. TV (hence the C and W in its name) more than a year ago,
the company has effectively gutted its U.S.-produced scripted originals. Only
four shows remain on the network’s slate that were developed under Pedowitz:
Superman & Lois, All American and its Homecoming spinoff as well as Walker.
Premiere dates have not yet been determined given the ongoing SAG-AFTRA
strike.
“While we’re sad to say goodbye to Superman & Lois at the end of season four,
we’re grateful for the time we’ve had with our amazing cast, crew, vfx teams,
editors, musical geniuses, and writers. Since the day this show was first
discussed, it was about family. And that’s what was created — on and off
screen,” said executive producers and co-showrunners Todd Helbing and Brent
Fletcher. “We’d like to thank our partners at Berlanti Productions, DC, WB and
The CW for their endless support and enthusiasm during this journey…and give
a very special thank you to all the fans for tuning in. We’re thrilled about what
we have in store in our final season, and can’t wait for everyone to watch as
Superman, Lois and all our heroes face off against the biggest threat in the
show’s history — Lex Luthor.”
Superman & Lois, like the three other holdover CW shows, underwent budget
cuts as Nexstar attempts to make the network profitable for the first time in its
history. (It’s worth noting that the network was created by both studios as a way
to monetize content internationally and via streaming deals, with both revenue
streams having since been cut off as CBS and Warners focus on their in-house
streamers and keep SVOD and international rights for themselves.) The series
cut the number of writers currently employed and has reduced its budget by
focusing more on family and less on action scenes that require expensive visual
effects.
BY
KEVIN ERDMANN
The CW's Superman and Lois television series has proven that the time has
come to fix a Superman movie problem that's persisted for almost 40 years.
SUMMARY
"Superman & Lois" has showcased that lesser-known villains can be just as
compelling as Lex Luthor or General Zod when given the opportunity to shine.
The CW show has introduced a range of lesser-known villains, often with
altered origins and powers, receiving positive feedback from viewers.
By saving the "big name" villains for later, "Superman & Lois" has allowed for
the emergence of new and interesting threats, putting the CW's live-action
Superman in fresh and unexpected situations.
The CW's Superman & Lois television series has proven the time has finally
come to start fixing an ongoing Superman movie problem that's persisted for
years. With Superman: Legacy on the horizon from James Gunn, a new live-
action Man of Steel for the big screen is imminent. To that end, Superman &
Lois has shown that there are other villains who should clash with the Last Son
of Krypton first (beyond the big names).
It's no secret that Lex Luthor has been the primary villain of Superman movies
for quite a long time across multiple iterations of the Man of Tomorrow.
Likewise, it's been 36 years since Superman hasn't fought someone on the big
screen who wasn't considered a "big name" villain (Superman IV). Conversely,
DC and the CW's Superman & Lois television series has shown that lesser-
known villains can be just as dynamic and compelling as Lex Luthor or General
Zod so long as they're simply given the time to shine.
Superman & Lois Proves Lesser-Known Superman Villains Are Engaging
Superman & Lois cast

Having spanned three seasons with a fourth (and likely final) season of
Superman & Lois on the way, the CW show has been a bit hit with DC fans.
Starring Tyler Hoechlin as Superman and Elizabeth Tulloch as Lois Lane, the
iconic superhero and renowned journalist are married with two teenage boys,
having relocated to Clark Kent's hometown of Smallville to start new lives where
they can be closer as a family. However, new threats and foes have not
lessened despite their move from Metropolis.
Across the first three seasons of Superman & Lois, a collection of lesser-known
villains have made appearances. This includes Morgan Edge, The Eradicator,
Bizarro, Parasite, Bruno Manheim, Onomatopoeia, and more. However, many
of these villains have also been given altered origins and powers compared to
their comic-book counterparts, though many have been very well received. For
example, Superman and Lois' Morgan Edge was far more than the corrupt
corporate media magnate he is in the comics. In the CW show, Edge was
revealed to be the secret half-brother of Kal-El himself, and he also became the
show's version of the Eradicator as well.
Ultimately, the most important thing about Superman & Lois' villains is that
bigger foes such as Lex Luthor and Doomsday have only appeared recently at
the very end of Superman and Lois season 3. Saving the "big names" for later
on has allowed so many new and interesting threats to emerge for the CW's
live-action Superman, putting him in new positions beyond facing more
expected threats who've continually appeared to challenge the Man of Steel on
the big screen.
Why Superman Movies Keep Using Big Names Like Lex Luthor
DC Comics' Lex Luthor
Although General Zod and Doomsday are other big bads who've been used
more than once, Lex Luthor is certainly the biggest Superman villain who's been
used on screen the most. To a degree, this is understandable. Luthor is
certainly the most marketable villain as Superman's core arch-nemesis with a
classically compelling rivalry thanks to Luthor's brilliant intellect against
Superman's incredible strength and powers. It makes sense that DC would
want him to be featured on the big screen.
However, Superman & Lois proves Lex Luthor doesn't have to be continually
used over and over. Additionally, it's far more exciting that Michael Cudlitz's Lex
Luthor is set to have a bigger role in Superman & Lois season 4, having only
been mentioned and initially set up at the end of season 3 following so many
other dynamic villains. To that end, some of these villains such as Edge and
Bruno Manheim have connections and history with Luthor, and their initial
appearances have helped establish Luthor as a true big bad who's actually
anticipated. It's hopefully something the upcoming Superman: Legacy movie will
adopt as well.
Under-Used Superman Villains Perfect For The Big Screen
Split Image: Superman flying down a street; Rogues Gallery of DC villains

including Lex Luthor, Bizarro, Catwoman, Two-Face, Black Adam, and the
Riddler
Both Superman & Lois (and even Max's new animated series My Adventures
with Superman) have shown the true potential to be had with the rest of
Superman's rogue gallery. There are plenty of compelling villains who've yet to
get their time to shine in the movies such as Parasite, Livewire, Professor Ivo,
Metallo, and perhaps even Lobo who's been rumored for Superman: Legacy.
Each of them and more could certainly push the limits of Superman's powers in
ways that have never been seen before on the big screen with a live-action Man
of Steel.
It's worth considering that there's an added benefit to not using big-name
villains right away. Less recognizable foes mean more narrative freedom to
experiment with the origins and powers of these lesser-known foes as has been
seen with Superman & Lois. While he'll likely be featured, here's hoping Lex
Luthor is not the primary villain in the upcoming Superman: Legacy movie.

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Superman and Lois Season 4

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SUPERMAN AND LOIS SEASON 4 (2024)

SUPERMAN & LOIS Season 4 Moves To A New Night As The CW Announces

Here's The CW's full 24/25 Fall lineup:

In the comics, Steel first appeared in Adventures of Superman #500 in 1993.

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Superman & Lois season 4 is expected to return to The CW this Fall.

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April 29, 2024

“Superman & Lois” Season 4 is expected to premiere in Fall 2024 (September-

April 20, 2024

“Superman & Lois” Season 4 is expected to premiere in Fall 2024 (September-

Superman & Lois focuses on characterizing Superman as a relatable and

While the DC movies have sometimes had a difficult time characterizing

Superman Legacy’s New Costume Gets A Disappointing Update From James

One criticism of the DCEU's showings of Superman is his status as a savior

For a world as fantastic as the DC Universe, taking a more grounded approach

A recurring criticism of many films featuring Superman, especially within the

As a character, one of the biggest hurdles to overcome in writing a compelling

This distinction as a separate continuity plays to the strengths of the show,

We talk, we talk Superman, and we know what's happening. We talk, we talk,

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Brad Schwartz, The CW President of Entertainment, revealed at today’s

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See Valdez’s full Instagram post below:

February 06, 2024

Unfortunately, the Cartoon Network/Adult Swim animated series "My

Superman and lois cast guide

What We Know About Superman & Lois Season 4

Source: Elizabeth Tulloch/Instagram

Superman Costume #2 – Superman in Black

Superman Costume #3 – Retro to the Max

Superman Costume #4 – Another Upgrade

Superman Costume #5 – How Bizarro

December 31, 2023

#10. A flash forward. As DC welcomes David Corenswet as their new

Currently, Superman & Lois Season 4 is scheduled to begin filming on

December 14, 2023

According to the Be More Super podcast, Walsh is set to appear in two

The Superman Homepage received confirmation from the Ladner Business

Tyler Hoechlin's Superman floating in the air.

Although the main Arrowverse continuity wrapped up in 2023 with the

Season 4 Will Resolve The Doomsday Fight

Bettina Strauss/ CW/Courtesy Everett Collection

The news comes as producers Warner Bros. TV is clearing the decks of DC

The Nexstar-backed broadcast network on Thursday announced that the

The decision to conclude the superhero drama comes as producers Warner

Superman & Lois Proves Lesser-Known Superman Villains Are Engaging

Superman & Lois cast

DC Comics' Lex Luthor

Under-Used Superman Villains Perfect For The Big Screen

Split Image: Superman flying down a street; Rogues Gallery of DC villains

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