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Maya Shankar: How to Shape Your

Identity & Goals | Huberman Lab
Podcast • Podcast Notes
Dario

14–18 minutes

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• Huberman Lab’s Finest: Don’t Miss These 10 Episodes

Key Takeaways

• Anchor identity to your “why” rather than just “what” you do for a
more fulfilling and reliable sense of self

• Harmful effects of essentialism: viewing oneself through an

essentialist lens may lead to feelings of shame when failures or
challenges occur, associating them with personal flaws

• Liberate yourself with “self–understanding”

• One’s identity isn’t defined by rigid, unalterable traits but by an
evolving collection of behaviors, thoughts, and experiences

• Abandon the concept of fixed essence and embrace the journey of

self-discovery and growth

• Losing a defining element of identity can be devastating but also

presents an opportunity for growth

• Maya had a career-ending injury while playing the violin at 15

• Because the violin played a significant role in their life, the
loss was challenging

• Curiosity saved her, and that’s when the pivot to cognitive

science happened
• Also, when reading “The Language Instinct” by Stephen Pinker

• Embrace uncertainty and open-ended curiosity for increased

 well-being and better adaptation to change
• People tend to fear change due to uncertainty, despite uncertainty’s
potential to trigger dopamine release

• The “end of history illusion” makes individuals believe they

won’t change in the future as much as they have in the past

• Small tweaks in framing can lead to significant behavior changes

• Avoid framing goals based on avoiding negative outcomes
(avoidance orientation)

• Approach orientation vs. avoidance orientation:

• Approach: frame goals positively and focus on proactive
achievements. Example: “I aim to eat healthier foods.”

• Avoidance: Frame goals in terms of preventing negative outcomes.

Example: “I want to steer clear of unhealthy foods.”

• 3 types of empathy:
• Emotional empathy: feeling what others feel
• This one is the most valued

• Cognitive empathy: accurately diagnosing others’ distress and

offering solutions

• Empathic concern: having the desire to help others

• High emotional empathy can lead to burnout, especially in

healthcare and first responders

• Goal Setting:
• Differentiate between approach goals (pursuing something positive)
and avoidant goals (avoiding something negative)

• Set goals that you personally value and have ownership over
(increasing intrinsic motivation)

• Set goals in the same psychological and physiological state you’ll

be in during goal pursuit

• Build in an emergency reserve or slack to allow for flexibility and

avoid perfectionism

• Capitalize on “fresh start” moments, like the start of a new

year or new job, to introduce new habits and patterns

• “Middle Problem” (dip in motivation during the middle phase of

goal pursuit):
• Set shorter-term goals

• Divide long-term goals into smaller, achievable milestones

• Maintaining Motivation:
• Use temptation bundling by pairing an unpleasant activity with an
immediately rewarding and enjoyable activity

• Maintain the potency of the rewarding activity by only indulging in it

when performing the unpleasant task

• Remember: Set shorter-term goals to avoid a prolonged drop

in motivation

Intro

• Can’t get enough of Andrew Huberman? Check out our

member-only collection packed with Huberman’s greatest tips

• In this episode, Dr. Maya Shankar (@MayaUmaShankar), a

cognitive scientist, and former senior advisor to the White House,
joins Dr. Andrew Huberman to discuss how identities develop
and change, the influence of beliefs on self-perception, and
science-based strategies to cope and grow through uncertain
situations, redefining goals and identity
• Check out Maya’s podcast, A Slight Change of Plans

• Host- Andrew Huberman (@hubermanlab)

Identity Foreclosure, Identity Paralysis, Throughlines

• Early identity is shaped by what we see around us, what’s deemed

successful in society

• Identity foreclosure: others impose structures, limiting mindset

and potential

• How to embrace your true identity?

• Don’t anchor identity solely to what you do, as it can make you
feel lost during the change

• Focus on why you do things, the emotional connection, and

human interaction

• Find the core through line connecting your passions, desires, and
emotional connections
• Recommended approach during change:
• Identify the underlying features of what you loved doing in the past

• Look for expressions of that core in other areas of life

• Embrace the relationship between your actions and emotional

connections

• Don’t dispose of identities; they bring meaning and purpose to

life

• Remember: Anchor identity to your “why” rather than just

“what” you do for a more fulfilling and reliable sense of self

Identity & Adolescence; “Essence” & Shame

• Childhood identities:
• Observe children’s play without assuming future roles

• Avoid projecting limiting future occupations

• Adolescent and teen years and questioning identity:

• Puberty triggers brain changes and a desire for independence
• Teens want to discover their authentic selves beyond imposed
structures

• What is so harmful about essentialism?

• Essentialism is the belief that people have inherent, unchangeable
qualities that define them

• Harmful effects of essentialism: viewing oneself through an

essentialist lens may lead to feelings of shame when failures or
challenges occur, associating them with personal flaws

• Liberate yourself with “self–understanding”

• One’s identity isn’t defined by rigid, unalterable traits but by an
evolving collection of behaviors, thoughts, and experiences

• Abandon the concept of fixed essence and embrace the journey of

self-discovery and growth

• A growth-oriented mindset will make you adapt to challenges and

view setbacks as opportunities for learning and improvement

Maya’s Journey to Juilliard as a Violinist

• Maya fell in love with her grandmother’s violin at age six
• She learned to play by ear and was taught by an inexperienced but
supportive teacher

• Competitive environment at Juilliard:

• Maya got accepted after attending a summer music camp and
training intensely

• Juilliard had many talented and driven young musicians, which was
both inspiring and intimidating

• Comparing herself to others and her self-criticism affected her

joy in playing

• Importance of intrinsic motivation:

• Intrinsic motivation and passion are crucial to maintaining joy
and progress

• Focusing on the process, curiosity, and the desire to improve

can protect you from external pressures

• Maya’s deep curiosity and enjoyment in getting better at things are

fundamental aspects of her personality
• These qualities extend beyond her musical pursuits and shape her
current life as a cognitive scientist and podcaster

Re-Creating of Self

• Identity is a crucial aspect of work and life arc

• Recreating and refining identity in new endeavors is essential

• Losing a defining element of identity can be devastating but also

presents an opportunity for growth

• Maya had a career-ending injury while playing the violin at 15

• Because the violin played a significant role in their life, the
loss was challenging

• The injury affected her organic traits, like curiosity, causing

disorientation

• Playing the violin-shaped her body and nervous system

• The ergonomics of playing the violin left a lasting imprint on her
physicality

• Loss of identity can manifest in physical and emotional ways

• Coping with loss and grief can make one feel lost and disheartened

• If you find yourself lost at sea, explore new interests

• Maya found a turning point when she read “The Language Instinct”
by Stephen Pinker

• The pivot to cognitive science happened when curiosity

happened
• She had to cut ties with the past identity tied to the violin

• Cognitive science provided a different expression of passion –

intellectual curiosity

• Curiosity is a self-amplifying upward spiral in the pursuit of

knowledge
• Genuine curiosity fuels energy and excitement for the pursuit of
knowledge

• Curiosity is a powerful motivator, and surprises in the pursuit of

knowledge can be more exciting than predicted outcomes

Change, Cognitive Closure, End-of-History Illusion

• Cognitive closure, the need for clear answers, can hinder resilience
and well-being in the face of change

• Embrace uncertainty and open-ended curiosity for increased

well-being and better adaptation to change
• People tend to fear change due to uncertainty, despite uncertainty’s
potential to trigger dopamine release

• The “end of history illusion” makes individuals believe they

won’t change in the future as much as they have in the past

• Emphasize curiosity about yourself and regularly audit your own

change experiences to understand how you evolve

• Change in one area of life can profoundly affect other aspects due
to the complexity of human psychology and ecosystems

• We are often poor cognitive forecasters, struggling to predict how

changes will impact us because we forget our dynamic nature

Self-Awareness & Critical Feedback

• Negative experiences often have salience due to our nervous
systems’ instinct to keep us safe

• Encourage self-reflection by seeking feedback from others, even

those with differing opinions
• Caring about what others think can help us be mindful of our impact
on others and make positive changes

• Feedback is valuable for personal growth and improvement,

both in academic and online environments
• Integrate feedback in a constructive manner, acknowledging that
others might have valid perspectives

• Foster an environment of direct feedback and disagreement to

encourage open dialogue and learning

Tools: Flexible Mindset; Reframing & Venting;

Gratitude

• Flexible Mindset:
• Approach all endeavors with humility and openness

• Update opinions, belief systems, and strategies based on incoming

information

• Value the ability to update and maintain a dynamic mindset

• Leadership is a willingness to update, not just strong convictions

• To learn how to be a great leader, check out these notes

• Reframing & Venting:

• Use distancing techniques like thinking about problems from a
third-person perspective to gain objectivity

• Seek critical feedback from friends and embrace honest

assessments

• Encourage friends to challenge your thinking and help you reframe

situations

• Avoid counterproductive venting and instead focus on constructive

advice

• Gratitude:
• Practice gratitude for positive feedback and experiences

• Receiving gratitude has positive effects on neural circuitry and

 neurochemistry

• Internalize and marinate in positive messages to counteract the

natural tendency to overweight negative experiences

Tool: Framing Goals & Agency in Goal Pursuit

• To internalize a real sense of possibility and change behavior, focus

on verb states that invoke action and agency

• Small tweaks in framing can lead to significant behavior changes

• Avoid framing goals based on avoiding negative outcomes
(avoidance orientation)

• Approach orientation vs. avoidance orientation:

• Approach: frame goals positively and focus on proactive
achievements. Example: “I aim to eat healthier foods.”

• Avoidance: Frame goals in terms of preventing negative outcomes.

Example: “I want to steer clear of unhealthy foods.”

• Endowment effect – the power of “earned”:

• Highlight the sense of ownership and achievement

• Motivate individuals to take action based on earned benefits

Example: “You have earned this benefit through your years of
service.”

• Set your own targets and establish a sense of personal agency

• Avoid letting others entirely dictate your goals and targets

• Example: Determine your exercise routine and intensity, based on

your preferences and capabilities

• The desire for control is a natural human inclination

• Use this desire to your advantage by being in control of your goals

• As always, prioritize activities that ignite your passion and creativity

Tool: Like-Minded People & Goal Pursuit; Challenging

Beliefs

• Benefits of being in like-minded groups:

• Motivation and goal achievement

• Witnessing failure and vulnerability in others can increase resolve

• Finding support and shared values in the pursuit of goals

• Dangers of being in like-minded groups:

• Limiting one’s frame of mind and perspective

• Beliefs and opinions are strongly influenced by group identity

• The danger of being trapped in an echo chamber

• How to challenge like-minded thinking?

• Use a thought experiment: imagine life in a different context to see
the non-precious nature of beliefs

• Understand how group affiliations shape perception and judgments

• Learning from Daryl Davis’s approach:

• Recruiting agency

• Avoiding questioning humanity

• Genuine curiosity

• Ask, “What evidence would change your mind?” to encourage

openness to new information

Building Self Narratives: Empathy, Burnout

• 3 types of empathy:
• Emotional empathy: feeling what others feel
• This one is the most valued

• Cognitive empathy: accurately diagnosing others’ distress and

offering solutions

• Empathic concern: having the desire to help others

• High emotional empathy can lead to burnout, especially in

healthcare and first responders
• Cultivating cognitive empathy and empathic concern helps against
burnout

• Building self-narratives and empathy:

• Self-understanding via cognitive empathy leads to self-compassion

• All ways of expressing empathy are equally valuable

• Empathy can be experienced in a multitude of ways

• Being selective about the kind of empathy you invest in

 Tools: Goal Setting, “Middle Problem”, Maintaining
Motivation, Peak-End Rule

• Goal Setting:
• Differentiate between approach goals (pursuing something positive)
and avoidant goals (avoiding something negative)

• Set goals that you personally value and have ownership over
(increasing intrinsic motivation)

• Set goals in the same psychological and physiological state you’ll

be in during goal pursuit for better judgment

• Build in an emergency reserve or slack to allow for flexibility and

avoid perfectionism in goal pursuit

• Capitalize on “fresh start” moments, like the start of a new

year or new job, to introduce new habits and patterns

• Middle Problem:
• Acknowledge the dip in motivation during the middle phase of goal
pursuit

• Set shorter-term goals to reduce the length of the middle phase

• Divide long-term goals into smaller, achievable milestones

• Maintaining Motivation:
• Use temptation bundling by pairing an unpleasant activity with an
immediately rewarding and enjoyable activity

• Maintain the potency of the rewarding activity by only indulging in it

when performing the unpleasant task

• Remember: Set shorter-term goals to avoid a prolonged drop

in motivation

• Allow for flexibility and avoid perfectionism

• Aversion & Memory:

• Apply the peak-end rule by elongating aversive experiences with
slightly less intensity at the end

• Reinforce positive memories in enjoyable experiences by making

the end more intense

• Consider tailoring the approach based on individual preferences

and reactions to experiences
Huberman Lab : change and transformation, cognitive science, goal
setting, health, identity development, Maya Shankar, mindset, self-
awareness
Notes By Dario

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