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Cutoff frequency in whaterhammer #5254 - 03/29/06 12:19 AM
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Bajwa Mod
Member
Good Day friend, May
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 35 Su M Tu W Th F Sa
Loc: Karachi, Pakistan
i have calculated cutoff frequency using the 1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
formula given in caesar ii application guide (water 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
hammer chapter). 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31

for max. cutoff frequency i have used the shortest Forum Stats
12065 Members
elbow to elbow pairs and the value comes out like 14 Forums
= 428 Hz.. 16973 Topics
75151 Posts

Max Online: 303 @

But when i use this value of cutoff freq. in my 01/28/20 11:58 PM

caesar ii dynamic/waterhameer analysis; an error Top Posters (30

Days)
occurs as follows:

"strum sequence failure, extend frequency

range".

even the error appears, still the anlysis

continue... why?

i have now following questions:

1) why this error occurs and what is the remedy.

2) should i use max cutoff frequency or min cutoff
frequecny. what is reason for choosing anyone of
them
3) what is the actual purpose of cutoff frequency.
i mean what role it palys in the
dynamic/waterhammer anlysis.

Thanks
_________________________
Bajwa
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Re: Cutoff frequency in whaterhammer #5255 - 03/29/06 09:25 AM

module
Richard Ay
Member
1) The "sturm sequence failure" does not mean
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226 there is anything wrong with your job, rather that
Loc: Houston, Texas,
USA there is at least one more mode close to where
you stopped extracting frequencies.

Take as an example a system where you set the

input up to extract all frequencies below 95 hz.
The extraction routine will stop as soon as a
frequency is found that exceeds 95 - for this
discussion, assume this is 100hz. How do you
know there isn't another frequency very close to
this 100hz that may affect your results? You don't
unless you rerun, changing the frequency cut-off.
However, a better way is to implement the Sturm
Sequence Check, which determines how many
frequencies exist between 0 Hz and some other
value (not what they are, just how many). So we
take your last frequency (100 hz in this case) and
add 5%, which in this case yields 105 hz. We then
use the Sturm Sequence Check to determine how
many frequencies exist between 0 and 105 hz. If
the count is the same as the number of
frequencies just extracted (between 0 and
100hz), then we report that the check passed. If
we get a higher count, we report that the check
failed.

There are some models that will always fail. For

example, consider a cantilever running in the "X"
direction. For every mode in the "Y", there is a
corresponding identical mode in the "Z".
Regardless of what your cut-off frequency is, the
extraction will stop at the first mode of any given
pair. The Sturm Sequence Check, by adding 5%,
will always find (at least) the 1st mode of the pair,
and therefore report a failure.

2) You would want to use the higher frequency,

because the results then include the response
from more modes. However, you don't want to
get ridiculous here either - the more modes you
include, the longer the job runs.

3) In general, you don't know how many modes

you need to include in the analysis. For one job
10 may be sufficient, for another you may need
50. This is unknown, so a better way is to say
"give me all the modes below 'xxxx' hz." You need
to include enough modes so that your results
include at least 90% of the system response to
the applied load. There are various "rules of
thumb" to guide you indetermining this value,
such as the discussion you referenced in the
Applications Guide.
_________________________
Regards,
Richard Ay - Consultant

HEXAGON CADWOrx®&
AnalysisSolutions

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Re: Cutoff frequency in whaterhammer #5256 - 04/10/06 01:42 AM

module
Bajwa
Member
Dear Richard,
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Karachi, Pakistan
Thankyou very much for your useful comments.

Today as i run my dynamic analysis there was no

"sturm sequence failure" ; even the caesar
calculated one frequency 476.933 Hz above the
cutoff frequency of 462 Hz.

Why it is so?

Thanks
_________________________
Bajwa
Top

Re: Cutoff frequency in whaterhammer #5257 - 04/10/06 07:08 AM

module
Richard Ay
Member
Because your system doesn' have another
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226 frequency within 5% of 476.933.
Loc: Houston, Texas,
USA
_________________________
Regards,
Richard Ay - Consultant

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