Notes on January 25, 2024 8:30 am meeting with Representative Phil Lyman:

• and I met with Representative Lyman in his office

in the House building.

• We met to discuss the numbers behind the fiscal note for HB320. He was surprised to see
us, as he had been expecting to see Lacey Moore (the LFA). Lacey had reached out to us
and asked us to speak with Lyman directly, since we could share the calculations behind
the numbers directl with him while Lacey could not. He asked if this was a special rule
just for SITLA. told him that all LFAs were subject to these restrictions.

• I started the meeting by explaining where we got the numbers and by asking if we could
work together on some changes to the bill. He was extremely disagreeable and wanted to
argue over past history with the agency rather than discuss the fiscal note or any potential
bill changes.

• I repeatedly stated that it appeared we had different viewpoints/recollections on these

things and tried to bring the discussion into more productive territory. In response, he
said “We agree to disagree” in a high, mocking voice with exaggerated, feminine hand
movements that was clearly intended to mimic and make fun of what I had said.

• He spent the next approximately 10 minutes being verbally abusive, accusing us of being
incompetent and not doing our jobs, saying we are either stupid or being duped into the
Red Rock Wilderness conspiracy, telling us SITLA is a failed agency and that he would
dissolve it if he trusted the legislature more.

• After several attempts by me and to bring the meeting back to the

numbers behind the fiscal note on HB320, he yelled that we were idiots to be “trading out
of f***ing land in Bears Ears.” When he did this, I stood and said that was not
professional behavior and it seemed like this meeting was no longer productive. He said
he was being professional and, when I pointed out that he had just yelled the “f word” at
us, he denied it and said that he had yelled it about the lands and not us.

• Representative Lyman then stated that he was going to stop us from getting commissions
on land sales and said we are getting “kickbacks” from deals. I told him that was not true,
there are no commissions and there was no evidence of any kind of kickbacks. I
mentioned that, 20 years ago, bonuses were given to SITLA employees – but that stopped
long ago and even then they were not commissions based on sales and we follow all
DHRM rules on incentive awards.

• then said in a very calm voice: “Representative, I am and I

can assure you that no commissions are being paid on sales of land. I would know if that
was happening.” In response, he said in a hi h itched and mocking voice (with the same
exaggerated feminine hand gestures) “I’m ”.
• At that point, I was done takin his verbal abuse and misogynistic mocking. I was
especially not going to subject to such treatment anymore. I had
tried repeatedly to calmly bring the meeting to a productive place and had directly asked
him to stop acting unprofessional. Those actions only seemed to aggravate him more.

• I then ended the meeting by telling him we would send him the numbers associated with
the fiscal note and leaving the room. As I left, he made a comment that was something
like "I'm not done with you yet."

• and were
both witnesses to this event. Upon our arrival back at the office, sent an email to
Lacey Moore letting her know that the meeting to discuss the fiscal note had been
unsuccessful and briefly touched on Lyman’s unprofessional behavior.

• was a young man . I hope he has not had to

listen to many of these types of meetings.