Journal of Lesbian Studies

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TERFs aren’t feminists: lesbians stand against

trans exclusion

Baker A. Rogers

To cite this article: Baker A. Rogers (2024) TERFs aren’t feminists: lesbians stand against trans
exclusion, Journal of Lesbian Studies, 28:1, 24-43, DOI: 10.1080/10894160.2023.2252286

To link to this article: https://doi.org/10.1080/10894160.2023.2252286

Published online: 07 Sep 2023.

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Journal of Lesbian Studies
2024, VOL. 28, NO. 1, 24–43
https://doi.org/10.1080/10894160.2023.2252286

TERFs aren’t feminists: lesbians stand against trans

exclusion
Baker A. Rogers
College of Behavioural and Social Sciences, Georgia Southern University, Statesboro, GA, USA

ABSTRACT KEYWORDS
In this article, I examine lesbians’ solidarity with trans people in Trans; solidarity; social
the United States. Trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs) justice; LGBTQ+
are feminists who believe that there is a stark difference
between the biological reality of sex and the socially con-
structed nature of gender. They argue that sex is essential and
innate. This leads some feminists to the argument that trans
people are trying to infiltrate sex exclusive spaces. While TERFs
are not always lesbians, lesbians are assumed to make up a
large proportion of TERFs. As Thomsen and Essig argue that
current ideologies within the media are allowing for the slip-
page between the terms “lesbian,” “feminist,” and “TERFs.” Some
scholars are suggesting that equating lesbian identities with
transphobia and trans exclusion is but a new form of lesbian
marginalization. I utilize 49 in-depth, qualitative interviews with
lesbians across the United States to interrogate the stereotype
that lesbians are largely TERFs. Through the voices of lesbians
across the United States, I illustrate how many lesbians despise
TERF ideology and argue that lesbians must stand in solidarity
with trans people in the fight for social justice.

TERFs aren’t feminists: lesbians stand against transphobia

In this paper, I seek to address the theme of this special issue, “What
does ‘solidarity’ mean to, and for, lesbians and wider LGBTQ + communi-
ties?” Specifically, I take up the question, “How is solidarity expressed in
lesbian communities across the social fracture of transphobia?” Here I
argue that some fractures within the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender,
and queer (LGBTQ+) community in the United States may be overblown
by the media. Rather than focus on fractures within the community, this
paper focuses on hope and explores solidarity between lesbians and trans
people in the movement for social justice. This focus aligns with my
previous work, where I and colleagues (Johnson et al., 2021) argue that
concentrating on how queer people flourish and resist normativities and
discriminations brings about queer hope, and highlights strengths and

CONTACT Baker A. Rogers barogers@georgiasouthern.edu College of Behavioural and Social Sciences,

Georgia Southern University, Statesboro, GA, USA.
© 2023 Taylor & Francis Group, LLC
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 25

resources that focusing only on discrimination and obstacles cannot.

Through the voices of 49 lesbians across the United States, I illustrate this
group of lesbians’ beliefs about TERFs, TERF ideology, and the reality
that many lesbians (including all the one’s in this study) feel they must
stand in solidarity with trans people for real social change to continue.
In line with Enszer (2022), the lesbians I spoke with believe it is important
to sustain a trans inclusive movement, one where “lesbian communities
continue to be vibrant spaces of mutual care, concern, and activism.”

Exclusion in the feminist movement

Like all social movements, from the start in the late nineteenth century,
what we know today as the feminist movement has struggled with inclu-
sivity and intersectionality. Early, and continuing, problems seeing wom-
anhood and rights outside of the White, cis, heterosexual body has been
an issue throughout the movement. There have been obvious issues within
the feminist movement of including the rights of Black women and other
women of color through overlooking or blatantly ignoring their rights and
needs. In the mid-1960s, the feminist movement started to explicitly
exclude lesbian women from the movement, calling them “un-woman”
(Koedt, 1973; Williams, 2020). This exclusion of lesbian women split the
movement even further between “authenticated women who enjoyed vis-
ibility and inclusion within feminist spaces, and deauthenticated women
who endured shunning and had to fight for their inclusion” (Williams,
2020, pp. 718–719).
In the 1970s and early 1980s, radical lesbian feminists, like Lorde (1984),
Wittig (1992), and Dworkin (1992) fought for lesbians to be included in
the category of women and went even further to reclaim lesbian as a
political statement. They linked their political feminist ideals with their
lesbian sexuality. They argued, to associate with men was seen as handing
over power. Stein (2018) quotes author and philosopher, Ti-Grace Atkinson,
saying in 1972, “Feminism is the theory; lesbianism is the practice.” While
Lorde, Wittig, and their colleagues in the Combahee River Collective
(1982) fought for intersectionality in radical feminism, others within the
radical feminist movement of this time pushed back against the degree of
diversity and acceptance necessary for a socially cohesive movement.
As Worthen (2022) points out, during this same period of the 1970s,
there was a rise in trans exclusionary ideologies taking hold within other
branches of radical feminism (Greer, 1999; Raymond, 1979; Stein, 1997;
Weiss, 2003; Williams, 2020). Here we see arguments for gender essen-
tialism and claims that trans people are ruining their bodies for patriarchal
norms within some radical feminist discourses (Stoltzfus-Brown, 2018).
Pearce et al. (2020b, p. 682) explain that “trans subjectivities” and feminism
26 B. A. ROGERS

are not oppositional in the way that some “gender critical” writers would
have us believe. Rather, this problematic, and fringe view of the conflict
between trans people and feminism started to gain traction with the pub-
lication of Janice Raymond’s The Transsexual Empire in 1979. Since the
publication of this book in the late 70s, predominantly one academic has
attempted to validate these trans exclusionary ideas through their writing,
that being Jeffreys (1997, 2014).
Some feminists who hold these exclusionary views of feminism continue
to refer to themselves as “gender critical feminists.” Notably, the related
term “TERF” has been applied to feminists who hold gender essentialist
and exclusionary views. Yet, importantly, TERF is not a term, or label,
most (if any) feminists claim for themselves, as it has been used as a
description of this ideology by those who find the ideology harmful. TERF,
as an acronym for trans exclusionary radical feminist, was first coined in
2008 by blogger Viv Smythe. Notably, Smythe (2018) explains that it was
not her intention to coin this term and she was likely not the first to use
this shorthand. Smythe (2018) credits “passionate trans women activists”
and their strong advocacy of their right to exist as women in the world”
that led her to the discussion of trans exclusion. Smythe (2018) says she
merely called out the ideology that trans women had been fighting against
forever. As she explains, “It’s rarely been trans women who are handed
the microphone to voice their own experiences.”
Often TERF ideology relates back to the gender critical feminist move-
ment. Worthen (2022) states, “The simple argument of trans-negative
feminism [gender critical feminism and TERF ideology] (both those of
the 1970s and today) is twofold: (1) sex essentialism: that trans women
are not women because they do not have ‘female biology and as a result
(2) trans exclusion: trans women should be rejected from ‘women’s-only’
spaces, ‘women’s only’ statuses, and ‘women’s only rights” (italics in orig-
inal) (see also Pearce et al., 2020b; Zanghellini, 2020 for further discussion
of gender critical feminists’ views). Importantly, most of these challengers
of trans inclusivity are Western, White, able-bodied, cisgender (assigned
female at birth and identify as women, henceforth cis) women, which is
why Stoltzfus-Brown (2018, p. 89) argues, “Trans-exclusionary radical
feminism [TERF] is a particularly virulent strain of white feminism.”
In the twenty first century, it seems that most feminists at least theo-
retically agree that intersectionality is vital to inclusive social movements,
however, the bounds of this inclusivity are still debated. For certain sub-
sections of “feminists” today, trans identities are seen as politically incorrect
and an attempt for trans people to gain power and access to certain spaces
by mimicking cis, heterosexual society. These “feminists” maintain outdated
and philosophically undefendable arguments (Zanghellini, 2020) that gender
is binary (assigned male at birth = man; assigned female at birth = woman),
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 27

essential, and unchangeable. These beliefs are used to support their argu-
ments that trans women should not be included in “women’s spaces,” and
“women’s sex-based rights” (Pearce et al., 2020b) and continue the call for
“womyn born womyn” exclusionary spaces (Browne, 2009, 2011; Earles,
2019; Pearce et al., 2020b; Williams, 2020). For instance, Kathleen Stock,
a leader in the gender critical movement argues that allowing trans women
into “women-only spaces” creates an unacceptable risk for cis women and
that inclusion of trans women based on their self-identification as women
threatens female and lesbian identities as well (Zanghellini, 2020).
Importantly, and less often discussed, trans exclusion and transphobia
within the feminist movement is not only directed toward trans women.
Some second-wave feminists also argue that the growing number of trans
men seeking out transition are a threat against women and feminism
(Stein, 2018). The idea that butches (or more masculine lesbians) are
becoming trans men for the power of manhood, or because they are tired
of fighting as women, is an outdated and extremely problematic argument.
Furthermore, following transition (socially and/or medically), trans men
are very often excluded from women’s spaces where they once found a
home and safe place to thrive and survive (Rogers, 2020).
These, what some would call, fringe beliefs (Thomsen & Essig, 2022),
along with a continued lack of understanding of trans identities, has meant
that trans exclusion and transphobia are still being carried out within the
feminist movement today by both cis and queer women. Pearce et al.
(2020b, p. 678) argue that these “trans/feminist conflicts,” often referred
to in the media and increasingly in academia “as the ‘TERF wars’ reflect
the current conditions of our time in which public discourse is dominated
by political polarization.” Whether these TERF wars constitute a major
divide within feminism or are an overblown media distraction to direct
attention away from more pressing issues (Pearce et al., 2020b), they
continue to cause harm to and perpetuate violence against trans people
and women more broadly.

Lesbians and TERF ideology

While TERFs are certainly not always lesbians, lesbians are assumed to
make up a large proportion of TERFs, a belief perpetuated by social media.
As this belief is unmeasurable, especially because there is no way to gather
a representative sample of a group of people who adhere to a value system
but do not identify with a consistent identity, researchers are beginning
to find ways to interrogate this claim (Worthen, 2022). Nevertheless, as
Webster (2022, p. 174) explains, “Contesting the inclusion of transgender
individuals and practices within lesbianism and lesbian identities is nothing
new.” Therefore, understanding TERF ideology, its relationship to lesbian
28 B. A. ROGERS

identities, and its influence on lesbian feminisms is vital to a more inter-

sectional feminist movement, one that is focused on coalition building,
not division (Stoltzfus-Brown, 2018).
This study and other emerging research (Hagai & Seymour, 2022;
Thomsen & Essig, 2022) sees the claims that lesbians predominate TERF
ideology and equating lesbianism with transphobia as a new form of les-
bian marginalization. Again, this is not to say that lesbians are not vul-
nerable to cisnormativity and are not part of the problem, rather it is to
say that equating (or “allowing slippage between the terms”) “lesbian,”
“feminist,” and “TERF” (Thomsen & Essig, 2022, p. 2), is inaccurate and
reductive in a way that harm not only trans people, but also lesbians who
are fighting for solidarity and intersectionality within a movement that
should support all gender identities and expressions.
Worthen (2022) states, “It is important to clearly state that many fem-
inists—including lesbian feminists—are (and have historically been) sup-
portive of trans women.” For instance, from TERF ideologies earliest
proponents in the 1970s, lesbians were defending trans women’s right to
be part of the movement and to equal rights generally (see Williams, 2020
for a more comprehensive overview of this history). Still, understanding
“intersectionality among different social movements is vital to discussing
why different feminist coalitions with seemingly similar goals have such
strongly opposing views on transgender individuals and rights” (Stoltzfus-
Brown, 2018, p. 91) As is too often the case, groups that could fight
together for change, and may appear to be “natural allies,” allow differences
to divide them and pit them against one another (Stoltzfus-Brown,
2018, p. 97).
As Worthen (2022) and others (Hines, 2019; Valcore et al., 2021) explain,
there has been little empirical research interrogating claims that lesbians
constitute a large proportion of those feminists who hold TERF ideology.
While this is changing, especially with the publication of Worthen’s (2022)
article “This is my TERF! Lesbian Feminists and the Stigmatization of
Trans Women,” the special issue of The Sociological Review (2020) entitled
“TERF Wars: Feminism and the Fight for Transgender Futures,” with 11
articles on the topic, and a few prior studies (Hines, 2019; Serano, 2007),
there remains a lot to be parsed out about TERF ideology and its rela-
tionships to lesbian identities. Specifically, “it remains unclear as to if
there is a significant association between being a lesbian cis woman fem-
inist and harboring negative attitudes toward trans women” (Worthen,
2022). And, as previously mentioned, the association between lesbian cis
women feminists’ beliefs about trans men has been examined even less.
Using quantitative data from the 2018 LGBTQ and Hetero-Cis Population
Study (Worthen, 2020), Worthen (2022) does find some support for the
linkage between lesbian cis feminist identity and trans exclusion. The study
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 29

shows that while cis lesbian feminists were significantly more stigmatizing
toward trans women than bisexual, pansexual, and asexual women (only
regarding discomfort about sex), cis lesbian women were significantly less
stigmatizing toward trans women than cis heterosexual women across all
measures. Nevertheless, Worthen (2022) also shows that cis lesbian fem-
inists are not immune to anti-trans feminists’ sentiments. Indeed, the study
shows a significant relationship between cis lesbian women who identify
as feminists and stigmatization of trans women, specifically these women
supported trans exclusion regarding rights, status (mother), and military
membership. Overall, Worthen (2022) argues that these findings show
“there is a significant relationship among some forms of lesbian feminism
and negativity toward trans women that continues to deserve unpacking.”
Even if claims that lesbians hold trans exclusive beliefs is exaggerated,
there is clear evidence that this claim is still based in some form of reality
and needs to be problematized further.

Current study

In this paper, I examine the relationships between lesbians and trans

people in the United States and demonstrate that many lesbians are already
striving toward solidarity with trans people in the feminist and queer
social movements. In my findings, I discuss four prominent themes that
emerged from the data concerning TERFs and TERF ideology within the
lesbian community. First, I discuss how the lesbians in this study had
little interaction with people or groups who hold TERF ideology, leading
some to question if it was a real problem at all. Second, most respondents
in this study questioned if TERFs can even claim a feminist identity, or
blatantly stated that TERFs are not feminists at all. Third, I show that
many of the lesbians I spoke with felt that equating TERF ideology with
lesbians is but a new way to shame lesbians. Finally, fourth, I demonstrate
how most of the lesbians in this study argue that lesbians must stand in
solidarity with trans people for social justice. These respondents argue
that allowing the media and TERFs to divide trans and lesbian rights is
a way to distract from the real problems and to slow progress toward
equity and justice.

Methods
Data

For this analysis, I examine 49 in-depth, qualitative interviews with lesbians

across the United States. The interviews consisted of questions designed
to explore several themes including: sexuality, coming out, lesbian
30 B. A. ROGERS

community, prejudice and discrimination, terminology within the queer

community, lesbians’ understandings of other groups within the queer
community, and feminism. All interviews were conducted via Zoom
between August and December 2021. Interviews were fully recorded, tran-
scribed, and coded for recurring themes. Interviews were recorded via
Zoom, as well as a backup recording device. Interviews were fully tran-
scribed using Sonix, an AI automated transcription software. All interviews
were coded for themes, using NVivo 12 qualitative software. I coded for
recurring themes using grounded theory, queer methodology, and emergent
themes from the interviewees. Interviews lasted an average of 1 h and 4 min.
Respondents were located using snowball sampling with multiple starts.
First, I posted a call on my personal Facebook page. Second, I reached
out to various lesbian and feminist organizations across the United States.
Third, most respondents heard about the study through word-of-mouth,
including others sharing calls for participants on their own social media
accounts and all respondents were asked to share my contact information
with other lesbians who may have been willing to participate in an inter-
view. All interviewees signed up for a study about lesbian identities and
experiences in the United States. The call for participants stated:
Interviewees in this study must be at least 18 years of age; identify as a lesbian
(including other identities such as butch, femme, dyke, boi, stud, a woman sexually
attracted to women, etc.); and currently reside in the United States.

All names have been changed for confidentiality purposes.

For this paper, I focus my analysis on several questions posed to respon-
dents about trans people and feminism. Here I provide the questions from
the interview guide that direct my analysis of the findings. Initially, in a
section of the interview about other groups in the queer community, I
asked respondents, “What are your thoughts on transgender and non-bi-
nary gender identities?”, “Can trans and non-binary people be lesbians?”,
and “Do you think there is any bias in the lesbian community against
other groups?” In this section I also posed the following questions, “Some
lesbians have said that trans men are just butch women who want power.
What are your thoughts about this?”, and “Some lesbians have said that
trans women are not real women and are invading women’s spaces. What
are your thoughts about this?” Then, in the final section of the interview
which covered the topics of feminism and activism, I asked respondents
the following questions: “What does the word feminist mean to you?” and
“Do you consider yourself a feminist? Why or why not?”. Directly related
to the issue of TERF ideology, I asked respondents, “Have you ever heard
of the acronym, TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist)?”, “If so, what
does it mean to you?”, and “What are your thoughts about TERFs?” If
respondents had not heard of the acronym TERF, I very briefly explained
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 31

that it stands for trans exclusionary radical feminists, a term mainly used
in the media that has been used to describe feminists who believe that
trans women aren’t real women and trans women shouldn’t be involved
in the feminist movement.

Sample

Of the 49 interviewees, 23 preferred the label lesbian for their sexuality.

Another eleven interviewees said they would use lesbian or gay/queer to
describe their sexuality. Five interviewees identified their sexuality as queer
only, five as gay only, two as lesbian-leaning pansexuals, one as a dyke,
one as a he/him lesbian, and one did not identify with any sexuality label.
Thirty-three of the 49 interviewees identified their gender as woman/
female, 13 identified as nonbinary, one identified as femme, one identified
as a trans woman, and one did not identify with any gender label. Of the
49 interviewees, 47 unequivocally self-identified as feminists (of the two
who said they weren’t sure if they would identify as a feminist, one said
they were not political and one said they didn’t belong to any clubs, but
they still supported the goals of the feminist movement, e.g., the belief
in equality for all genders).
In terms of race, 36 interviewees identified as White, 5 as Black/
African American, four as White and an additional race or ethnicity
(Mexican/Hispanic, Jewish, Latina, and Russian/Armenian), one as Black
and South Asian, one as Hispanic, one as Middle Eastern, and one as
“mixed race.” All interviewees had completed at least some college. Three
interviewees had not completed a college degree, two had associate
degrees, 22 had bachelor’s degrees, 12 had master’s degrees, and ten had
advanced degrees (8 PhD’s, 1 JD, 1 Specialist). The 49 respondents lived
in 19 different states. Interviewees’ age ranged from 21 to 58, with an
average age of 33.
There are two important caveats to keep in mind while interpreting the
findings from this study. First, taking Worthen’s (2022) lead, when I dis-
cuss the respondents’ views on feminism, I clarify if they identify as a cis
lesbian woman (N = 23); all other respondents signed up for a study on
lesbian identity but either did not identify with the lesbian label and/or
did not identify as cis (total N = 26). While I will discuss both groups’
perspectives, it is important to remember Worthen’s (2022) findings that
bisexual, pansexual, and asexual cis women were less stigmatizing toward
trans women than cis lesbian women. Furthermore, 16 of the women in
this study did not identify as cis, meaning that they themselves fall under
the transgender umbrella in some way, presumably (but not necessarily,
see Rogers, 2020 for instance about cis- and transnormativity in the trans
community) leading them to be more accepting of trans people.
32 B. A. ROGERS

Second, and likely related to the increased diversity of the sample in

terms of gender and sexuality, the sample is heavily skewed toward those
with higher levels of education. All the interviewees had completed at
least some college and the vast majority had a bachelor’s degree or higher.
Even more starkly, almost half of the sample had a master’s degree or
higher. Specifically, 94% of the sample held an associate degree or higher
(compared to 50% of the U.S. population), 90% held a bachelor’s degree
or higher (compared to 39%), and 45% held an advanced degree (com-
pared to 9%) (NCES, 2021). This oversampling of highly educated people
is most likely related to my social networks as an academic. There are
also some mixed results of whether lesbians are more or less likely to
complete college than the average population. Either way, this study clearly
represents a highly educated sample which could influence their likelihood
to identify outside of a cis-, heteronormative system, as well as their
likelihood of being more educated about and accepting of trans identities.
Worthen (2022) shows that education is negatively related to all measures
of trans women’s stigmatization in their study.
For ease of reading, see Table 1: Demographics.

Findings
Out of the 47 feminist respondents in this study, 22 cis lesbian women
and 25 queer people who signed up for a study on lesbian identity, none
of the interviewees adhered to the TERF ideologies of gender essentialism
or trans exclusion. Here I examine the four prominent themes, discussed
above, that emerged from the data concerning TERFs and TERF ideology
within the lesbian community: (1) Where are all the TERFs?; (2) TERFs
aren’t feminists; (3) Shaming lesbians; and (4) Lesbians stand in solidarity
with trans people. I focus on the voices of the respondents to show how
this cultural war is viewed and discussed by lesbians in the United States.

Where are all the TERFs?

Lesbians in this study had little interaction with people or groups who
hold TERF ideology, leading some to question if it is a real problem at
all. While most respondents were aware of TERFs or TERF ideology to
some degree, 12 interviewees had never heard the acronym before this
interview. The only TERF mentioned by name by any respondent was J.K.
Rowling (mentioned by six of 49 respondents). Overall, most of the les-
bians I spoke with had never interacted with anyone who they believed
held TERF ideology and said they wouldn’t be friends with anyone who
held these beliefs. Most interviewees who knew what TERF meant (37 of
49) said they had never met a TERF in person. As Denver, a 21-year-old
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 33

Table 1. Demographics.
Feminist
Name Age Race Gender identity Sexual identity identity Education
Kris 36 White Female Gay women/lady Yes Masters
Ari 27 Black Female Queer Yes Bachelors
Cameron 28 White Woman Lesbian Yes Masters
Greer 41 White Doesn’t identify Doesn’t identify Yes Masters
Alva 31 White/Latina Female Lesbian Yes Masters
Noelle 44 White Demigirl Lesbian No Bachelors
Jodie 43 White/Jewish Female Queer Yes PhD
Teagan 33 White Cis Woman Lesbian Yes PhD
Asa 24 White Woman Lesbian Yes Masters
Peyton 30 White Non-binary Queer Yes PhD
woman
Emerson 25 White Female Lesbian Yes Bachelors
Jamie 41 White Woman Lesbian Yes Masters
Nolan 38 White Woman Lesbian Yes PhD
Aubrey 24 White Trans Woman Lesbian Yes Some college
Lennox 23 Black/African Genderqueer Lesbian Yes Bachelors
American
Nico 36 Black/African Woman Lesbian Yes Bachelors
American
Drew 40 White Genderqueer Lesbian Yes Bachelors
Micah 25 White Female Lesbian Yes Bachelors
Tatum 58 White Woman Lesbian Yes PhD
Nikita 39 Middle Eastern Woman Lesbian Yes JD
Elliot 28 White Femme Dyke Yes Masters
Marion 23 White Woman Lesbian/queer Yes Bachelors
Spencer 27 White Woman Queer Yes Bachelors
Leslie 35 White Woman Lesbian/queer Yes PhD
Merrill 24 Black/South Woman Lesbian/gay/ Yes Bachelors
Asian queer
Kai 24 White Gender fluid Lesbian Yes Bachelors
Jackie 52 White Female Gay Yes Bachelors
Justice 38 Black Non-binary Lesbian Yes Masters
Monroe 30 White Female Gay Yes Bachelors
Dallas 30 White Non-binary Lesbian Yes Masters
Ainsley 38 White Woman/female Lesbian leaning Yes Bachelors
pansexual
Denver 21 Black Non-binary/he/ He/him lesbian Yes Some college
him lesbian
Morgan 31 White Queer/ Queer Yes Masters
non-binary
Shiloh 28 White Female Gay/lesbian/ Yes Bachelors
queer
Maddox 32 White Feminine woman Lesbian leaning Yes PhD
pansexual
Ryan 32 Mixed race Cis woman Lesbian/queer Yes Bachelors
Remy 25 White Non-binary Lesbian/gay Yes Bachelors
Kerry 41 White Female Lesbian/gay Yes Some college
Addison 29 White Woman/ Lesbian/queer Yes Bachelors
non-binary
Hayden 27 White Woman Gay Yes Bachelors
Jessie 28 White Female/woman Lesbian/queer Yes Associates
Skylar 31 White Female Lesbian Yes Masters
Milan 24 White Female Gay Yes Associates
Bellamy 32 Hispanic Female Lesbian No Bachelors
Tori 33 Mexican/White/ Female Lesbian Yes Bachelors
Hispanic
River 36 White Female Gay/lesbian Yes Masters
Charlie 41 White Non-binary Lesbian Yes Specialist
Sammie 37 White/Russian/ Agender/ Lesbian Yes PhD
Armenian non-binary
Avery 30 White Cis female Lesbian/queer Yes Bachelors
Notes: Cis lesbian women.
Non-feminist.
34 B. A. ROGERS

Black non-binary he/him lesbian, put it, “Just online, I haven’t really
encountered TERFs in person luckily.”
The respondents who discussed interacting with TERFs at all explained
these interactions were nearly exclusively in anonymous or semi-anonymous
online spaces, such as social media and support groups. Of course, most,
if any, TERFs do not identify with this label, but respondents specifically
referred to interactions with people who held gender essentialist or trans-
phobic views when talking about their online interactions with TERFs.
Generally, the interviewees felt that for the most part lesbians are not
TERFs, and in fact, the problem of TERFs in general is overblown in the
media and a few “bad apples” on Facebook, TikTok, and Tumblr. This
supports research arguing that the “TERF wars” are a social constructed
problem to distract people from more pressing issues and divide commu-
nities that should be working together for justice. This was an especially
prominent view among the cis lesbian women in this study.
Nikita, a 39-year-old Middle Eastern lesbian woman, clearly articulated
her belief that the TERF war is a social construction perpetuated in online
spaces. She questioned, “‘Where is this happening?,” and concluded, “It’s
not happening. It’s just happening on Tumblr. It’s not happening in real
life. It’s not like a real thing. That’s my opinion on it.” Another cis lesbian
woman, Asa, a 24-year-old White lesbian woman, said, “I’ve never met
one personally, thankfully, but I’ve seen plenty on TikTok.”
Similarly, Kerry, a 41-year-old White lesbian/gay female, asked, “Is that
just a thing that the media has created for the most part?” She felt that
TERFs made up a “very, very small minority of people,” and questioned
if it “even exists?” Kerry said, the “lesbians I know of are very supportive
and speak out [against TERF ideology].”
A third cis lesbian woman, Ryan, a 32-year-old mixed race lesbian/
queer cis woman, asked me if I had come across many TERFs in my
research. When I responded, “No,” Ryan said, “I find it really interesting
that you said that you haven’t come across all these TERFs because they
[the media] do make it sound like they’re just everywhere.” Ryan contin-
ued, “Within the communities that I know, not only is [TERF ideology]
not present, but there’s actually a huge push against it. Like no, that is
absolutely not something that we would deal with, uphold, or allow in
these spaces.”
Many of the other queer people I spoke with also felt that TERFs and
TERF ideology was mostly perpetuated online. For instance, Remy, a
25-year-old White lesbian/gay non-binary person, said that they heard
TERF ideology online, but mostly as “a complaint that it’s happening.”
They said, “I don’t see it actually happen.” Remy explained that “people
are saying [TERF ideology] is disgusting,” but they ask, “Where, where,
where? Tell me where. Because I have not fucking seen that.”
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 35

Of course, whether there are many feminists who adhere to TERF

ideology or not, TERFs, or the social construction of TERFs and perpet-
uation of the TERF wars online, continue to cause real harm to trans
people. Therefore, it is important to understand what lesbians think about
TERFs, and what these lesbians who disagree with TERFs think about
trans people.

TERFs aren’t feminists

So, what do lesbians think about TERFs? In this study, approximately a

quarter of the 49 interviewees believed that TERFs are not feminists at
all. Of the cis lesbian women who discussed that TERFs are not feminists,
most talked about the harm TERF ideology causes trans people and the
feminist movement broadly. These women also discussed how TERF is
not a slur, rather it is a description of a harmful ideology.
Ryan, a 32-year-old mixed race lesbian/queer cis woman, said, “I don’t
see [TERF ideology] as being feminist in the way that I view feminism.”
She said that “exclusionary trans politics… [are] very harmful in lots and
lots of different ways.” To Ryan, TERF ideology is “the opposite of what
feminism should be doing and is doing when it’s done correctly.” Marion,
a 23-year-old White lesbian/queer woman, agreed that TERFs are not
feminists. She stated, “You are transphobic, and you are committing vio-
lence with your opinions.” This is why Marion argued that TERF is not
a slur. She said, “I think that it’s absolutely bonkers that TERF is now
considered a slur…. it’s not a slur, because it’s pointing out that you’re
bigoted and violent and not a feminist.” Teagan, a 33-year-old White cis
woman lesbian, also discussed why TERF is not a slur. She said, “It’s
absolutely not a slur. Slurs to me are based in societal oppressions. That’s
just an accurate descriptor of what a TERF is…. it’s an earned insult and
it’s not a slur.” Teagan continued, “And I think TERFs are extremely
harmful to feminism. And when they are part of the queer community,
extremely harmful to the queer community.”
Interviewees who did not identify as cis and/or lesbian were also
strongly opposed to those who adhere to TERF ideology calling them-
selves or being called feminists at all. Interestingly, all these interviewees
who discussed why TERFs are not feminists specifically focused on trans
women. Drew, a 40-year-old White genderqueer lesbian, said TERF “is a
frustrating concept… I mean either you’re a feminist or not. I don’t think
there’s a way to be a feminist and exclude anyone who identifies as
female.” Similarly, Hayden, a 27-year-old White gay woman, explained,
“J.K. Rowling…. I know she’s like, ‘I’m a feminist.’ And I’m like, ‘No,
you’re not.’ If you’re excluding trans women, you’re not a feminist. You
can’t call yourself that.”
36 B. A. ROGERS

Sammie, a 37-year-old White agender/non-binary lesbian, said, “I don’t

think you could be a feminist without resoundingly supporting trans
people…. What matters is the violence that trans women and trans people
experience.” Lennox, a 23-year-old Black/African American genderqueer
lesbian, also felt that TERFs were committing violence, although their
response was to be violent back to them. They said:

TERFs, I don’t like TERFs, I don’t support it. All women are women… I don’t think
[they] understand that still sits in transphobic rhetoric…. I hate TERFs…. It’s truly
terrible. I hate them so much. I literally will fight every single TERF on this planet
if need be.

Lennox also discussed TERFs relationship to conservative ideology and

anti-feminism, which most respondents didn’t mention. They said, TERFs
“think what they’re doing is liberal, but you’re falling on the other side
of the spectrum. You’re with the other guys, you’re with the Alt Right
people and they don’t understand that.”
Overall, there was a consensus among the respondents that if feminism
stood for equality, then excluding trans people clearly placed you outside
the bounds of feminism. What feminists really means to these respondents
is discussed further in the section below about lesbians standing in soli-
darity with trans people.

Shaming lesbians

As some academics have begun to argue, conflating lesbian identities with

TERF ideology appears to be a new way to shame lesbians. Based mostly
on a handful of vocal and public lesbian TERFs, a narrative has emerged
that many lesbians are TERFs. To reiterate, the purpose of this paper is
not to prove many lesbians are not, or that there is no relationship between
some forms of lesbian feminism and TERF ideology, rather I seek to
demonstrate how one group of lesbian respondents from across the United
States feel about this conflation of lesbian and TERF identities, and their
own actual views of trans people.
One cis lesbian woman, Cameron, a 28-year-old White lesbian woman,
explained it this way:

Statistically, there are a lot more heterosexual and non-lesbian women in the world
than there are lesbians of any political ideology or feminist ideology. So, my money
is that there are more TERFs who are heterosexual. But I think…. there’s a spotlight
on it because this idea that like with LGBTQ, you got the L and you got the T, it’s
like, I thought we were friends. So, it’s like you’re betraying us. Like you are a trai-
tor to the community that we’re allegedly all supposed to be a part of… you’re
missing the larger group of people [heterosexual and non-lesbian TERFs] because it
seems like this is someone you can blame better. You can shame better.
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 37

In fact, only about 0.7% of the U.S. population identify as lesbians

(Jones, 2021), so the likelihood that lesbians are the majority in any
movement is in fact slim.
Two other respondents clearly discussed how conflating TERFs with
lesbians is being used to shame lesbians. As you may have noticed, Remy
and Ryan both had a good deal to say about TERFs in their interviews.
They held very strong feelings about this topic. Remy, a 25-year-old White
lesbian/gay non-binary person, agreed with Cameron. Remy explained:
Don’t get me wrong, TERFs can fuck off, but it does seem that [TERF ideology] is
so strongly associated with like the joyless lesbian and lesbians. It feels like lesbian-
ism is kind of the most despised of the acronyms from the actual community and
the least supported, which frustrates me quite a lot. So, I wish that association was
not so strong. I mean, particularly when like the most visible TERF is J.K. Rowling,
who’s a straight woman.

Remy continued, “I make a point to express that I’m a lesbian with a

trans identity, there’s nothing diametrically opposed about that. [Lesbians]
have such a rich history of gender non-conformity, and I don’t know why
TERFs are so associated with lesbianism.”
Ryan, a 32-year-old mixed race lesbian/queer cis woman, summed it
up well when she said, Today, TERF is being used a “a tool of control.”
A tool of control to shame lesbians as being outdated and irrelevant in
the new gender landscape. Yet, as many of the interviewees discussed,
TERF is not, or should not be, a slur to shame people, rather it was
created as a shorthand way to label a real threat to trans people.

Lesbians stand in solidarity

Finally, the fourth theme that emerged from the interviewees’ discussions
of trans people, feminism, and TERFs is one of lesbian solidarity with
trans people. As this special issue addresses lesbian solidarity, it is vital
to highlight how the lesbians I spoke to in this study all described their
own acceptance of trans people, and many went much further discussing
support and solidarity with trans people and the trans movement.
Here I’ll begin with Aubrey’s, the only self-identified trans woman in
the study, take on the support she has noticed and received from lesbian
people. Aubrey, a 24-year-old WShite lesbian trans woman, discussed
several times throughout her interview the support she receives from the
lesbian community. She explained that she often sees it implied online
that “most lesbians are TERFs,” and that there is a “stereotype of TERFs
being transphobic lesbians” that she calls persistent. In her personal expe-
rience though, Aubrey states that “the lesbian community has been really
accepting of me as a trans person… and I think lesbians are generally
38 B. A. ROGERS

accepting of other groups.” While Aubrey, and the other queer lesbians I
discuss in this section (unlike some of the other respondents above),
definitely view TERFs as a “real” threat, but they do not think it is “a
lesbian problem.” Aubrey says, “Most of the TERFs I’ve seen identify as
usually straight.”
Denver, a 21-year-old Black non-binary he/him lesbian, agrees with
Aubrey that TERFs are a serious problem, which is why everyone must
stand up to the bigotry their ideology spreads. He said:

I try to consciously fight against [TERFs] strict definitions…. it doesn’t help anyone;
it only hurts people. And TERF ideology…. very directly harms a ton, like thousands
and thousands, of trans people just trying to survive and get the care that they need
to be happy as themselves.

Sammie, who also identifies as non-cis, agrees with Denver. Sammie,

a 37-year-old White agender/non-binary lesbian, clearly discusses their
disdain for TERFs. They say, “I know there are a lot of TERFs out there,
and not just lesbians, but just in general, and I don’t care, they could all
die.” Sammie explains that TERFs make their own identity “under the
trans umbrella… very helpful in solidarity.” Sammie uses their own iden-
tity to stand with trans people by saying “there’s a trans person in the
room.” Furthermore, they explain to keep social movements intersectional
and focused on equity, “Everything that I’m involved with demands that
trans and non-binary people be involved in it.” This, like how many
feminists argue that for women’s rights to be respected, there must always
be a woman at the table, is an important goal for all groups and orga-
nizations to strive toward. Without the voices of trans and non-binary
people at the table, how can any movement expect to serve these groups
equitably?
Importantly, it wasn’t just trans and non-binary lesbians in this study
that stood against TERFs and in solidarity with trans people, cis lesbian
women also described their disgust with TERF ideology and trans exclu-
sion. For instance, Merrill, a 24-year-old Black South Asian lesbian/gay/
queer woman, explained how as a cis woman, it is her responsibility
to stand up to TERFs so that trans people are not forced to do this
work. She explained in the past she would have walked away from
anyone who held TERF ideology, but today she feels it is important to
use her education and privilege as a cis woman to stand up to TERFs.
Merrill said, “I feel like cis people should be doing that dialogue, not
trans people. So, I’m going to try and speak to them and I’m trying to
define womanhood in a very specific way that includes all different
types of women.” She went on to discuss the importance of intersec-
tionality to our ideas about womanhood and why she felt that Black
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 39

women should especially be standing in solidarity with trans women.

Merrill explained:
I have some knowledge about the creation of even the term woman and what that
meant and how it tied to like Victorian notions of purity and whiteness and mid-
dle-class and all this shit. I’m like you as a Black woman, and as a Black lesbian
woman, who uses those terms to describe yourself were never meant to fit into the
category of womanhood anyways. And so, for you to then police somebody else who
is a woman, I’m like, there is cognitive dissonance going on, what is happening?

Merrill says when she encounters a cis, hetero White women who spouts
TERF ideology, she’s “kind of like, ‘Okay, well, you wanted to exclude
hella women from womanhood anyways.’” On the other hand, “When it
is a woman that has another marginalized identity, I’m like, ‘Do we not
see the hypocrisy going on here?’” Merrill’s point is supported in the
literature showing that the need for “protection” is almost always granted
to White women, not women of color or trans women (Patel, 2017; Pearce
et al., 2020b)
Largely, the lesbians in this study discussed the importance of all fem-
inists fighting for the same goals and standing in solidarity with one
another. Leslie, a 35-year-old White lesbian/queer woman, put the goal of
solidarity in movements very powerfully:

I think it’s a shame to see people who would be exclusionary toward trans women
in the feminist movement. We are all fighting the same battle at the end of the day.
We are all fighting a battle of eliminating gender oppression. And it doesn’t matter
if you’re cisgender or you’re transgender. It is all the same fight ultimately, evolving
to destroy a system that is oppressive of us in terms of gender expression… It is all
the same fight. And the sooner that we can realize that together as feminists, the
sooner we’ll get on with the business of destroying patriarchy.

And that is the goal of this paper, and this special issue more widely,
to “get on with the business of destroying patriarchy,” and all -phobias,
-isms, and violence, through solidarity across movements and groups.

Conclusion: where do we go from here?

In this paper, utilizing 49 in-depth qualitative interviews with lesbians
across the United States, I discuss lesbians’ views on trans exclusionary
radical feminist, TERF, ideology. After offering a brief overview of the
history of TERF ideology and feminist lesbians’ relationship to this ide-
ology, I discuss four prominent themes that emerged from the data con-
cerning TERFs and TERF ideology within the lesbian community.
Overall, I find that the lesbians I interviewed had little to no interaction
with TERFs, so much so that 12 interviewees had never heard the acronym
40 B. A. ROGERS

TERF, many questioned if TERFs were a real problem at all, and most of
the respondents said they had never met anyone in person who pontifi-
cated TERF ideology. The second theme that arose from these interviews
was the respondents questioning if TERFs should be called feminists at
all. Many respondents felt that to even call these women feminist was to
give them too much credit or power within a movement about equality.
The lesbians in this study expressed that conflating TERF ideology with
lesbians was a tactic for shaming lesbians, and for them was not based
in any sense of reality. The fourth and final theme I discuss is one of
solidarity between lesbians, both cis and trans, and trans people. The
lesbians in this study argue that lesbians must stand with and for trans
people in the fight for social justice. They see the TERF wars as a means
to divide a community that must fight together against patriarchy and hate.
To be perfectly clear, my goal with this article is not to discredit the
real harm that TERFs have perpetrated against trans people, and women
more broadly. Rather, my hope is to demonstrate that many lesbians are
already part of the fight for trans justice. To quote again from Enszer
(2022), “lesbian communities continue to be vibrant spaces of mutual
care, concern, and activism.” The lesbians in this study strongly believe
their own rights and ability to live freely in this world is directly tied to
the rights and ability of other marginalized groups, including trans people.
Kai, a 24-year-old White gender fluid lesbian, discussed how siding with
TERFs gets other LGBQ people nowhere and that once TERFs “squish
trans rights, you know they’re just going to roll back all of yours next.
They’re going to go down their next to do list.” They said, “We just can’t
do that; you’ve got to have solidarity with all your people.”
The aim of this paper, and this broader special issue, is to focus on
solidarity and hope in times where we, queer people, and oppressed groups
across the spectrum, feel defeated and exhausted. I hope that this paper,
and the other papers in this issue, allow people to see a true glimpse
into the soul of the lesbian community. To see that although the lesbian
community has problems, like all communities, most lesbians are genu-
inely interested in the betterment of society for all of us, not just
some of us.
While TERFs, with the help of the media, have created a narrative that
sets the trans community and lesbian community at odds, I hope this
paper demonstrates that all lesbians are certainly not TERFs, and many
lesbians are actively fighting for the advancement of people of all genders
and all queer people. As Pearce et al. (2020a, p. 885) so eloquently put
it, “The TERF wars, now more than ever, are a vexing diversion away
from the more pressing priorities for most women as well as trans and
non-binary people, including equitable access to basic needs like healthcare,
housing, employment and education.”
 Journal of Lesbian Studies 41

Furthermore, I think it is worth pointing out that the sample of lesbians

in this study demonstrates the growing diversity within the lesbian com-
munity. Over 30% of the lesbians I interviewed identified as a gender
identity other than cis women/female. To me, this indicates that not only
is the lesbian community becoming more accepting of other communities,
but the community itself is becoming ever more diverse in terms of gender
and sexual identities.
So, as we move this social movement for justice, equity, diversity, and
inclusion forward, I genuinely hope that we can all move together in
solidarity. I hope that lesbians, trans people, and all other oppressed groups,
can fight together for social change. I hope, like Pearce et al. (2020b, p.
693), “that one day these entrenched debates over ‘trans-exclusionary’ and
‘gender critical’ politics will become entirely irrelevant, so that we might
instead unite around a shared interest in sex liberation and feminist free-
dom for all.” As a movement for social justice, our “overarching structures
and the individuals within [our movement] must empathetically engage
with each other [in order for] coalition-building, solidarity, and an inter-
personal understanding of intersectional identities to truly occur” (Stoltzfus-
Brown, 2018, p. 97). We must all seek to “find hope in the lessons of the
past, the solidarities of the present, and the possibilities of the future”
(Pearce et al., 2020a, p. 886).

Disclosure statement
The authors report no conflicts of interest. The authors alone are responsible for the con-
tent and writing of the paper.

Funding
The author(s) reported there is no funding associated with the work featured in this article.

Notes on contributor
Baker A. Rogers (they/she) is an Associate Professor of Sociology at Georgia Southern
University. Their research focuses on inequality, specifically examining the intersections
of gender, sexuality, and religion in the U.S. South. Their books, Conditionally Accepted:
Christians’ Perspectives on Sexuality and Gay and Lesbian Civil Rights (Rutgers
University Press); Trans Men in the South: Becoming Men (Lexington Books); King of
Hearts: Drag Kings in the American South (Rutgers University Press); Advances in
Trans Studies: Moving Toward Gender Expansion and Trans Hope (Emerald Publishing);
Gender and Sexuality in the Southern United States (Cognella); and, Gender and
Sexuality in the Classroom: An Educator’s Guide (Routledge), can be found online.
Their work is also published in numerous academic journals including, Men and
Masculinities; Journal of Interpersonal Violence; Gender & Society; and Qualitative
Sociology.
42 B. A. ROGERS

ORCID
Baker A. Rogers http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1370-398X

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