Agilent Cool on column ALS injector problems

bioarch1 over 7 years ago

Afternoon forum members,

I am hoping that someone might be able to shed some light on our injector issue. We had a COC injector port installed on the
back inlet of our 7890a GC - FID.

When the autosampler (7963 plugged into back inlet port) lowers to inject the sample - the A/S stops with a shudder and
goes into fault mode - the plunger remains depressed. I can manually inject the sample at this point and then raise the
injector. Needle is not bent. I have loosened off the septa cap to ensure the needle is not getting pinched during the injection,
and double checked that the syringe needle was not the problem by removing it altogether and trying another injection - ALS
stops at point of injection.

Fault log reports 'Sampler error #901 Auto Injector back tower syringe error' and turret flashes red twice, which according to
the manual indicates that I need to reinstate or replace syringe - both of which I have done

I have tried realigning the A/S using the automatic align on the turret - and all seems OK. I can manually inject a sample, so I
am happy with the alignment of the 0.53um guard column and associated COC parts and we have the 0.53 on column nut
with septa in place. I have also changed the needle guide 'foot' to the one that came with the kit.

The needle is a 5ul Agilent on column syringe (5182 0836) with 0.32 needle, inlet pressure is 10psi has a septum purge of
15ml/min.

Has anyone experienced this issue - or be able to shed some light on it please.

Many thanks,

Matt

kristen.sensabaugh over 7 years ago

Hi Matt,

Did the system work before, and if it did, did anything change between the time that the system was
working and now?

It is important that all of the autosampler and inlet/column components are compatible with one another.
You can verify this one of two ways:

1. Use the Parts Finder Tool. If you don't have the Parts Finder Tool, you can download it from Agilent.com
here: Agilent | Parts Finder Tool
If you view the 7890A GC model, click on the inlets view and select cool on column you can see a nice
visual representation of the components that need to be installed with a .53mm column.
2. Reference the Cool on Column section beginning on page 93 in the 7890 Series Maintenance Manual:
http://www.agilent.com/cs/library/usermanuals/public/G3430-90052%207890B_Maintaining%20Guide.pdf

Let me know what you find and we can go from there.

Best Regards,
Kristen

bioarch1 over 7 years ago in reply to kristen.sensabaugh

Hi Kristen,

Thanks for the speedy reply and links, really useful.

Everything parts wise appear OK. The ALS syringe (5ul gold syringe barrel (5182 0836) with 0.32um
26-32/42 cone needle (5182-0831)) is listed under 7673/7683 On Column autosampler syringes, but
appears in the parts finder under the A/S we are using. I believe that Agilent put the parts list together for
us when we requested a quote for the inlet. The installation engineer didn't raise any problems - but as we
did not have the ferrules at time of installation - we could not install the column and test the ALS

The system (which was connected to the MS instead of the FID) was working correctly on the
split/splitless inlet (albeit with a different syringe) the day before, so I am pretty sure it is all working
correctly. I am going to change the inlet in the method and check - it would be sheer coincidence if the
A/S has gone wrong at exactly the same time as changing the inlets (but stranger things do happen!)

Not sure if this helps to narrow down the problem?

Thanks

Matt

kristen.sensabaugh over 7 years ago in reply to bioarch1

Hi Matt,

Thank you for the information. Trying to run the ALS on the Split Splitless Inlet should
help to rule out a problem with the ALS; as you said I would be surprised if it errors out
(as long as you remember to change the needle support guide and syringe).

You mentioned that you did change the ALS needle support guide to operate on the Cool
on Column, which is critical. Can you reference page 110 in the maintenance manual to
verify the correct part is installed in the ALS for use with the cool on column, and also
make sure that it is installed properly:
http://www.agilent.com/cs/library/usermanuals/public/G3430-
90052%207890B_Maintaining%20Guide.pdf

I'm guessing that in your method for the cool on column you have the method configured
to use the back injector, correct? Did you change the way the ALS is plugged into the
back of the GC? I don't know if that should really matter or not, but this is worth trying.
Shut down your data system (software control). Power off the GC, and plug the ALS
cable into the middle ALS port (refer to page 13 of the installation manual, I think it is
referred to as Sampler 2 or Back Injector on the back of the GC):
http://www.agilent.com/cs/library/usermanuals/public/7890B_Installation.pdf After you
change the cable position, power on the GC and then re-launch the software control. You
will probably get a notice that the GC configuration has changed, which is normal.

A couple of notes about supply choice: thru-hole septa would be recommended (part
number 5181-1260), and if you are injecting into a .530 retention gap, using a 23/26
gauge needle is a robust solution.
Let me know what the results of your tests are and we'll go from there.

Best Regards,
Kristen

bioarch1 over 7 years ago in reply to kristen.sensabaugh

Hi Kristen,

Checked the ALS on the front inlet S/S and all ok. The support guide is
installed correctly as per the installation guide, and I have had the ALS
plugged into both front and back sampler ports, no improvement in either
case.

Is it possible that the difference in height between the front and back
inlets in relation to where the autosampler mounts has anything to do with
this, the top of the COC inlet septa nut have screw threads, but for what
is not clear. The S/S stand proud compared with the COC which is much lower?

Thanks again

Matt

kristen.sensabaugh over 7 years ago in reply to bioarch1

Hi Matt,

Thanks for modifying the ALS cable connection; it was worth a try.
Did you double check to make sure that the spring is installed in the inlet and that you are
using the correct insert (it shouldn't have any lines on it, from the set-up that you
described).

What ALS injector plunger speed are you using? If you are using fast plunger speed you
could try to change it to slow and see if that has any impact. You need to expand the
injector parameters box (click on the arrow box under washes and pumps) to change the
speed.

Can you send me a photo of the Cool on Column inlet and also measure the height from
the top of the septum nut to the base and let me know what it is?

Best Regards,
Kristen

bioarch1 over 7 years ago in reply to kristen.sensabaugh

 Hi Kristen,

Plunger speed is set to slow, have been advised not to use fast. Insert and
spring are in correctly.

Distance between to of nut to base, assuming that you mean mounting plate
the inlet sits on, is approximately 2cm. Just got reference, the S/S sits
~16mm higher than the coc inlet at the point the needle guide meets both
inlets.

Matt

kristen.sensabaugh over 7 years ago in reply to bioarch1

Hi Matt,

The cool on column inlet does sit lower and the ALS should be accommodating for the
height difference. From everything that you've told me it sounds like the syringe carriage
is encountering an interference and we need to determine what the interference is.

Can you try the following:

1. Use the same needle guide "foot" that you are using for the SSL inlet. This is the
needle guide "foot" that should be used with a .53mm column. Try to run the ALS and see
if it works.
2. If step 1 doesn't work, take out the syringe and entire needle guide assembly (the part
that the needle guide "foot" is connected to) and try to run the ALS.

Let me know the results of step 1 and 2. If the ALS errors in both of these cases, can you
please take a video recording (without the needle guide assembly installed) so that I can
see at what point the ALS is having trouble? If the video file is too large to upload, you
can send me an email @ kristen.sensabaugh@agilent.com.

Thanks,
Kristen

fchl235 over 7 years ago

Hi Matt:

I am entering the forum late, so hopefully by now you have resolved your problem. I also use COC
injection, but with Mass Spec. Initially I had some problems with the COC injector in which the 5uL
needles were bending on injection; however, this was coupled with other problems that were more
related to the mass spec and the new extractor source. Initially we did not use a guard column, but the
service engineer added the 0.53 um guard column and also switched the needle to a 10ul fixed needle
(part# 5181-1267). This alleviated the bent needle. I don't know if that will help your situation since you
didn't seem to have a problem with your needle. Also make sure in your Inlet & Injection Parameters, the
 inlet location is set for Rear and the injection source is set for GC-ALS and not manual. Also that the ALS
is set for back injector. Again, hopefully you have resolved your problem and are up and running.

Regards,
Dawn Harrison
USDA

kristen.sensabaugh over 7 years ago

Hi Matt,

Were you able to get your ALS injector to work on your Cool on Column inlet?

Thanks,
Kristen

bioarch1 over 7 years ago in reply to kristen.sensabaugh

Hi Kristen,

Sorry I didn't get back to you. No, we have not been able to get any
further forward and I was away last week. I am not going to be able to do
anymore of that until next week - other instruments are misbehaving! I need
to get a video of it for you 'not injecting', and I will try to do that
first thing.

Thank you for following up though

Have a great weekend.

Matt

bioarch1 over 7 years ago in reply to kristen.sensabaugh

Hi Kristen,

I may have found the solution. The needle guide for the COC injector needed
modifying by removing 3mm of plastic from the upper cylinder to stop the
needle barrel hitting it as the carriage came down. It would appear that
the syringe and foot combination do not quite work in harmony on our ALS. I
do now have a method that is happily injecting samples automatically.

I did make a short video of the problem which I can upload if you would
still like me to.
 Have a great weekend

Matt

kristen.sensabaugh over 7 years ago in reply to bioarch1

Hi Matt,

I apologize for the delayed response; I was out on holiday. If you can upload the video
showing the problem that would be nice. If you can't upload the file, please email it to
me. Are you now using the same needle guide "foot" that you are using for the SSL inlet?

Have a great weekend!

Best Regards,
Kristen

bioarch1 over 7 years ago in reply to kristen.sensabaugh

Hi Kristen,

I have shared you into the google file video, as it is 50mb. Not sure how
useful it is - but does at least illustrated the carriage stopping
abruptly. In the end, I trimmed down the on column needle guide by approx
3mm rather than use the s/s guide, as I was worried that the fine tip of
the on column needles would not have enough support.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-zgYLy8YxZOWnR1a3NZZlVpb1U

Thanks

Matt

james_jenkins over 7 years ago

Hi Matt,
I just wanted to follow-up to see if this issue is resolved. If so, please come back to the post and click the
“Correct Answer” button on the response that help so it will make the solution more visible. If you still need
help, just let us know and we would be happy to continue working with you.

Was this helpful?

Related
 The Agilent GC Detector Portfolio Now Includes
the LUMA Vacuum Ultraviolet (VUV) Detector
The universal VUV detector has sensitivity better than a…

Verified Answer  14 replies 1 answer 97 subscribers 4160 views 0 members are here

 Troubleshooting

 Automatic Liquid Sampler

 GC

 sample introduction

 inlet

 autosampler

 cool on column inlet

Agilent Knowledge Portal

Find maintenance, best practice, and troubleshooting articles.