Back pain relief starts with your core

Gregory Anne: Welcome back everybody to another fabulous episode of

Rebellious Wellness Over 50. Today my guest is Dr. Ryan Peebles, who's going
to talk to you, yes, you listening with the lower back pain sitting at your desk or
on the couch. We're gonna talk about lower back pain and how you don't have
to suffer with lower back pain anymore. And I know that sounds like a big
promise. Even if you've been suffering for 20, 30 years, it's possible for this to
get corrected.

Dr. Peebles, thank you so much for being with us. Welcome.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Hello, Greg, and thank you for having me. I'm excited to be
here.
Gregory Anne: I actually don't have lower back pain at the moment, but I can
probably speak for a lot of people that they're really excited for you to be here. I
want you, you have a doctorate in physical therapy, and the way you came to
that is, tell us your story.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah. So it all started with my own experience with lower
back pain and started for me at a really young age. It's a really big, long story,
so I'll just give you the highlights. I started lifting weights at a really young age,
about 13 years old, and I got a personal trainer that was a bodybuilder, so I was
lifting heavyweights, like bodybuilding style and created

some muscle imbalances and also lower back pain. That started at age 16 and
then went all the way through until basically I was in my late twenties and
started experimenting with some different core connection type stuff and I kind
of made it my life's goal to solve my problem. And if I could do that, then I
would try to help other people.

So I found that the solution was in the core and I think that would probably
make sense to a lot of other people. And You know, the problem that I had
throughout all those years, like it was about 10 to 12 years of really struggling
was I didn't know how to engage my core. And so that's what the program that I
created is focused on.

And yeah, we help people of all ages from teenagers all the way up into the
seventies and eighties and people are definitely getting better. Doesn't matter
really. Age doesn't matter.

Gregory Anne: So when you say the word core, I'm imagining that others are
imagining sit-ups, crunches, six pack abs.

Is that what you're talking about when you say core?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Well, in the nature of your question is exactly right. It's not
that it's much more than that and including that, but actually in a weird way,
with the goal of the program, we're trying to target the deep core, the muscles
that are that get no glory, they're hiding underneath the six-pack abs.

And those are the most important ones. And I don't really like to single out any
one muscle because they're all designed to work together synergistically. And so
to peg one muscle as the solution muscle I don't really see it that way, but I do
try and tell people that the six pack is the least important one of them all.
And so we get into why that muscle is actually for movement. It's, it's long and
narrow and it's designed to move the body like in a sit up. But we've since
learned that sit-ups are not really good for your back. It was one of the main
exercises that I believe caused my back problems. The research shows that it's
not beneficial.

They have taken it out of military bootcamp training. They don't do sit-ups sit
anymore.

Gregory Anne: Oh, really?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: It's gotten that far into the government that they have
removed it . They still do the pushups and the pull-ups, but they don't do the sit-
ups anymore.

Gregory Anne: Huh, I've actually heard that you can create not so much a pain
problem, but not the shape you want by doing sit-ups and crunches in a the
wrong way, like not having the right position you can actually cause your
stomach to look worse.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah. The classic sit-up really heavily trains the hip flexors,
which is one of the problem muscles that we are battling against is kind of like
the antagonist in this, it's a war that we're fighting in our body against this
predictable pattern of muscle imbalances, and we're trying to bring the body
towards balance and the hip flexors are definitely one of the major antagonists
in that.

Gregory Anne: And is that because we, our lifestyle, we're conditioned to
hyperextend or have tightness because of the way we are stressed or the way we
sit? What does that come from?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: I think like a lot of things. There's multiple factors that go
into it. For example, sitting would be a definite factor that just puts our body in
this flexed posture, this closed up posture and the hip flexors are in a shortened
position when we're sitting.

And that is something that really I don't think we can avoid. I mean, you and I
are both sitting right now, right? So but that's not the only factor. Actually the
one, the most interesting thing that I feel like I've learned about the cause, the
correlating causes of chronic back pain is, is this whole concept of the
protective mechanism.
When the body feels like it's in danger or in pain or at even at risk for damage, it
will start to protect itself through the protective mechanism, which is ultimately
a, a pattern of muscles tightening to close the body up. And, and the ultimate
goal is to get the body into the fetal position.

That's the protective position. Now, this doesn't happen, instantly I. Into the full
fetal position unless, for example, you had a severe pain, like you had a maybe
you had appendicitis, or something that will pull you into the fetal position. But
most often in, in what we are experiencing is a low level of chronic stress,
maybe related to finances or family or whatever.

And so it's a low level of protection it's this prote protection mode and it's a low
level of muscle tension. And we feel that in very specific muscles. For example,
your upper traps, a lot of people carry stress in their muscles on their, their neck
and shoulder muscles, the hip flexors is another one.

And so all of these are pulling the, the body into the fetal position and stress is
another thing that we can't really avoid either. So it's learning to kind of live
with these stresses and then also counterbalancing them with healthy things that
open up the body. And so we learn how to reopen the body and maintain the
body in an open position and to do it in a healthy way that protects the spine.

Gregory Anne: Great description. You have talked about pt, physical therapy
not being the solution for most people because it doesn't get to the core. Sorry
for the pun of the problem. Can you talk about that?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah. So I like this question because you could probably
imagine that, this isn't a bias I have because I have decided to identify as a
physical therapist.

So naturally I would want my profession to be successful at everything. Right.

But, and it is really success, successful at a lot of things. But in this current
context with chronic pain or chronic back pain in particular, What people end
up experiencing with PT is they go, they have their visit, say they have, three
times a week for four weeks, they get 12 visits and they get a little bit better
through that process, but then they get discharged from therapy and the problem
usually comes back, not in all cases but for the people with chronic back
problems, recurring back problems, it generally does come back.

And the reason is, not because physical therapy is not effective, it's because
there's not enough crossover into the activities of their daily life. And so the
exercises or the hands-on treatment become the solution. With physical therapy,
they are the solution. And so people will do the exercises and they'll feel better
and they'll get them hands on manipulation and they'll feel better.

But when they leave the the session and they go into their lives and they're just
moving around their day, the way that they're relating to their body and moving
through life, doing the dishes, gardening, whatever is the same that they were
doing before therapy. Mm-hmm. So they do the exercises and once they get off
the table, nothing else has changed.

And so I believe that the, the long-term solution to chronic back pain is actually
integrating this new relationship with your core and your body into all of the
movements of your daily life. And I think there is a bit of a gap there with
physical therapy and the integration. Mm-hmm. You know, I need to brush my
teeth, right?

How, how should I do that? I need to do the dishes and it kind of hurts when I
have to bend forward over the sink a little bit. I have to do the yard work.
Right? So how do we do those things? And it really, if, if I was gonna simplify
it, it comes down to the way that you connect or engage or relate to your core
during those activities.

Gregory Anne: Mm-hmm. Can we talk about stretching? I know some people
rely on when our back is uncomfortable for one, I've, I garden a lot. Sometimes
I get back and I'm just like, oh, I just need to stretch and I make things up that
feel good, but am I actually doing anything good for me or is it not so good?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: This is gonna be my opinion. So stretching has its benefits
and also it can keep you in the loop of the problem, like a kind of a positive
feedback loop or negative feedback loop, however you wanna look at it. The
benefits of stretching are that it takes the muscle into a lengthened position and
that can allow a little bit more blood flow to get in there and oxygen, and that
feels good.

And so that's why most people will feel immediate relief from the stretch. And
then, so because of our association with that, it seems like a good thing. But the
body also has more of a delayed response with certain things like stretching.
And when you're, when you're stretching repetitively, the muscles can become
What happens in a stretch if you really break it down is there's little micro tears
that happen in the muscle.

It's not really damaging if you stretch here and there, but if you do it
repetitively, the muscle actually does become weaker, and so that's why certain
types of stretching are better than others. Like active stretching, like yoga is
actually a healthier, healthier form of stretching. But if you're just passively
bending forward and touching your toes and coming back up, that's not training
the muscle in that new lengthened position, and when the muscle is constantly
being brought into this vulnerable position, not learning how to actively work in
that position. It does have a long term effect and again, kind of break down the
way that the muscle, the structure of the muscle and, and weaken it over time.

Really stretching is not inherently bad. It's just should be combined with
functional stuff in that lengthened position, that vulnerable position,

Gregory Anne: is that the technical term Functional stuff?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Functional movement is the technical term. Yeah.

Functional activities.

Gregory Anne: Okay, great. The relationship between, for people that feel like,
well, this is my new normal.

I have back pain, I'm 60, I'm whatever I fell off my horse. I have back pain. I'm
40. That's what's gonna happen. But that also comes along with possibly
depression, anxiety from the pain, overprotective, you know, behaviors that lead
to something else in the body. Would you say that relieving the pain, getting rid
of the back pain forever

would have a health impact outside of the situation in the back and the body.
Like an emotional wellbeing impact?

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah, I think that absolutely there's a correlation between
depression, anxiety, and chronic pain. I think it's interesting the way that you
asked, because you said that people that have accepted that this is the way
they're gonna be and

I think actually when somebody finally accepts the pain, it's actually better than
someone who doesn't accept the pain and is stressed by the pain and has fear
about the future. So part of. Actually sometimes when we're dealing with
chronic pain here, this is definitely a psychological component and, and
sometimes when people are highly stressed about their pain and, and they have
that fear about what's gonna happen in the future, it is

putting that body in the sympathetic response and it's that positive feedback
loop that I was talking about where it's promoting the protective position and
sometimes I actually give advice to people, one of the things that you might
want to try temporarily is to be okay with the pain, and it's a hard thing to do.

But to answer your question directly, Absolutely. There's a strong correlation. I

often say that 90% of this back pain problem is mental. 90% of the solution,
90% of the problem. I mean, it's, it's affecting our mind. Mm-hmm. And so,
yeah, if you can get out of pain or even not get out of pain, but realize that we're
human and that we all have pain to some degree, but just make progress.

The act of making progress, the students in our program that are just getting
better, have incredible changes in their mindset. Just from knowing that they
can and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And some, that's some of the
most exciting things for me to see are when students realize that they can get
better because they're seeing just a little bit of progress.

And you know, then you, if you can get better Tomorrow than you were today,
then you know you can build off that and that gives you hope. And that is such a
healthy mindset to have to be hopeful. Mm-hmm. It's the opposite of the
depression of feeling doomed for the rest of your life. So that's the long answer.

Gregory Anne: Yeah, definitely. I'm good with long answers, huge
improvements. Yeah. And I, I like what you you touched on the long view
because, and I'm all about the word possibility. You used hope. It's the same
concept. What is possible for me, for my life without this pain? You have a
program that will give people an answer to that question, like you could feel a
little bit better. What if you could feel a lot better? This program has, you have
remarkable testimonials, people. You have to go to the page, the website, which
is called core balance training.com and read the testimonials.

But Ryan, I want you to tell us about the program. Cuz it seems so simple, but it
gets great results.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah, it is really simple. You know, there's a lot to say and
I, if I were to kind of break it down into like a kind of a one sentence thing, we
teach people how to connect to their core in a way that they know that they're
doing it right.

It's modeled after human development, so we're not creating, we're not
reinventing the wheel here. We're modeling after how a baby and an infant
developed their core. Exactly. We're just mimicking that and we're having
adults do it. Of any age, like I said. And so the core connection feels good, it
feels right, and then we teach people how to integrate that like I was talking
about earlier, into everything you do in your life so that your spine is better
supported all the time, not just for the 30 minutes that you were at the gym or at
the PT clinic.

And so that's a long process. It's the, the hardest part about it in the beginning is
realizing that it's all on you. You know, this is online, right? It's an online
course, so nobody's coming to your house to heal you or to cure you, and a
hundred percent of the responsibility is on you to watch the video get down on
the floor.

Do the five minute little routine and then wake up the next day and do the next
lesson. And so it's a process that is built. It's just layers built on, on top of the
previous day, and that goes on for 12 weeks.

Gregory Anne: Hmm. I I'm glad you brought up the point that it's on you
because in marketing we're always told, don't tell people there's any work.

Don't tell them that it's gonna be hard, but I think. The honest truth is more
important here in this moment because many people who have chronic pain of
any kind may have bought other programs, may have gone to work with
trainers, may have taken some class that promised some things and it quote
unquote, didn't work.

Or did they not do the work? I mean, as a coach, I have to always ask that
question, do you feel like you really did the work? And you also said it's only
five minutes a day, even if it was 15 minutes a day,

It is 15 minutes a day.

Gregory Anne: It's really nothing.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Every lesson is five minutes long each day, and then we
build up the routine to be 15 minutes long.

That takes three lessons to get to that point. So but each lesson is five minutes.
And ultimately the, the daily commitment is 15 minutes. Usually down on the
floor. We use the floor to learn core connection, which is what an infant and a
baby does.

Gregory Anne: Speaking of, I have two grandsons,

it's fascinating to me how babies figure out balance and how much
it just happens, right? They sit, they're like just sitting. You can roll them
around. They just stay all completely connected and it's really cool to watch. I
like that you related your work to that stage of being a baby.

They're flexible. They have fear obviously, of falling and things, but not like we
do. Like they don't seem to tense up with every single step or misstep I should
say, or falling over doesn't really bother them.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: They're incredibly trusting. I think they're the most trusting
people in the world.

And I have a two month old right now. Aw. And you can learn so much from
them. And I think the most interesting, the most fascinating thing to me is that
by the age of four years old, my son will have perfect posture and movement,
assuming that there's no developmental problems. He will have perfect posture
and movement.

And he will never have learned what a muscle is or what their names are or how
to contract the muscle or any of that stuff. Or he doesn't have to do any
exercises at all, and he's gonna have perfect posture, movement. And by the age
of four is when they are fully developed in that way. And so that's what tells me
that the learning happened experientially through gravity on the floor.

Hmm. And their goal, I think pretty much all babies' goals are, is to get up off
the floor and be like everyone else. Mm. That's ultimately what they want to do,
and so they're learning how to push away from the floor and they use these
really important support points we call them in the program. And this is what
we're mimicking. We're teaching people what are the support points that babies
push away from and we learn to push away and the right muscles in the core
contract automatically.

So you don't need to know the names, you don't have to single out any one
muscle like. The transverse abdominis as the hero muscle. It's just all the
muscles working together, and there's a natural contraction that takes place just
by having the intention of pushing away in order to get up off the floor.

Gregory Anne: I like that you don't have to know the muscles because
although I love words like piriformis and you know all these, but I can't keep
them straight, to be honest. I mean, I know what my glutes are, I know what my
traps are, but if I had to memorize them to have the thing work, that would
count me out right away.
Dr. Ryan Peebles: They all have their function, but ultimately they are
designed to work synergistically with other muscles. And so to try and single
out any one muscle, I just don't really see that as a functional or practical thing
that you could apply in your everyday life. Mm-hmm. And so that's the goal, is
to be able to, whatever you're learning, If it's not something that you can sustain
throughout the day.

I mean, you mentioned other programs and I think the gap in a lot of solutions
out there is that people are learning things that yes, you can do, but can you do
it all day long? Are these exercises that you're learning in in other programs, are
they teaching you a way to connect that's sustainable for not just one minute or
three minutes, but for hours long.

That's the hard thing cuz it has to be really low intensity and, and actually, On
that note that I think that's why this program does so well with people in the
aging population because it's extremely low intensity and it's very low impact,
and so it feels good. And the people that have the hardest time in core balance
training are

high level athletes because they're so used to doing things at a high intensity and
being really good at them and working hard. And that's the kind of thing where
it kind of skips over these deep small muscles that we're trying to connect with.
And it, and it skips to the power muscles that are already too overused and, and
compensated for in, in a lot of things that we do.

So even though

Gregory Anne: this isn't intense, it's not cardio, it's not, would you say that it's
going, it can help people feel or look leaner.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah. And that's because, not because you're gonna build all
kinds of muscle mass. It's actually just because when we're strengthening the
core connection what you're doing is strengthening the connection between your
pubic bone and your rib cage.

And so when people have this protruding belly, it's oftentimes not from
excessive fat. But I'm not saying in all cases, but oftentimes it's from the
anterior tilt of the pelvis and just the protrusion forward of all the organs and the
belly just sticking out because of posture. And so, yeah, when you kind lock
that in it, it has you know, it has definitely improved appearance to the core and
the body.
Gregory Anne: Okay, so I just wanna reiterate in case we didn't talk about it at
the very beginning, who this program can be for, even if you have stenosis,
degenerative disc disease, herniated or bulging discs, spon, spondylothesis,
spondylolisthesis. Oh my goodness. I always thought it was spondylitis and,
okay. Anterior pelvic tilt,

Dr. Ryan Peebles: oh, that is, that is a term. Spondylitis is another term. Yeah.

Gregory Anne: Oh, okay. Sciatica. Si joint pain. Yes. Scoliosis. Yes. General
lower back pain. Hip and knee pain. So I think that pretty much wraps the entire
population of my audience in, in one way or another. Just to say don't count
yourself out if you feel like, well, I

I had an mri, they said, I have a bulging disc, I'm gonna need surgery. Maybe
not, right? Try something for 12 weeks that would get you out of the possibility
of surgery. I would raise my hand for that.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: Yeah. And definitely even if you it's a hundred percent in
my mind just knowing what I know, it's worth it to try this before

surgery. But the more important thing to know is if you decide to get surgery,
that you still need to do something that addresses the actual root cause of the
problem, because surgery does zero to address that problem and typically it's
micro disectomy, it's gonna be just removing a part of the disc that is Causing
pain, but what caused the part of the disc to herniate or to bulge in that way?

That's the problem that you have to address. And yes, just to affirm the program
is specifically targeted towards chronic lower back pain and that includes
various conditions. They're all a result of a similar monster of imbalances,
muscle imbalances what if you're talking about stenosis or bulging disc or you
name it, the diagnosis doesn't actually change the strategy that we take of
increasing the connection to the muscles that support your spine.

Right? That's what you wanna do no matter what the diagnosis is. And then
there is the side effect of the program where, People tend to report that their
knees feel better and their hips feel better. Mm-hmm. And their neck feels
better. And that's actually not what the program was designed for. But it turns
out that when you are addressing your body as a whole and improving your
posture as a whole, that lots of these chronic problems actually start to improve
as well.
Gregory Anne: That makes perfect sense. Since we are all one connection,
right? Everything's connected, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, people core balance
training.com. Take a look at the program. If you go to the top of the website,
you'll see tabs, and one of them is for the program. There's a whole tab of
testimonials. As I said, there's just tons and tons and you can take a an
assessment, there's a masterclass.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: You mentioned the testimonials. They are impressive on the
website, but if I were to go on any website and read testimonials, I'd say, well,
they're cherry picking.

So we decided to start a trust pilot account so we could have a neutral source.

And anybody that wants to see more recent testimonials, go ahead and check
out the trust pilot. There's, our students tend to write long paragraphs about their
experience, and you can get a lot of insight into the program.

So, Thank you for you know, helping get the word out there that there is a
solution to back pain and I appreciate that a lot, Greg.

Gregory Anne: You're most welcome, Ryan, and people. I'll be back next
week. Be well till next time. Thanks again.

Dr. Ryan Peebles: All right. Take care.

Bye.