Morning Walk

November 14, 1975, Bombay

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Calcutta had called me up this morning. They are expecting about
two lakhs' people in Māyāpur today and tomorrow. There's a big festival, and
Jayapataka Mahārāja spoke to me also. He's going to come here next Wednesday.

Prabhupāda: Two lakhs' people?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: During the next three, four day festival...

Prabhupāda: What is that festival?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's... It happens every year at this time.

Prabhupāda: What is this time?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: [break] Bengali Gītār Gān is ready and Jayapataka Swāmī is taking delivery of it in
the morning.

Prabhupāda: [break] Copies. [break] They could not conclude when the battle of Kurukṣetra was
fought.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are speculating, though. There is one school which says it wasn't fought
in Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: As soon as there will be one school and other school, that means all of them are
rascals. Just like the sun rises from this side. There cannot be two schools. If somebody says, "No,
no. Sun rises from this side," if that is school, he's a fool. Sun rises from the eastern side. That's all.
That is knowledge. If somebody says, "No, sometimes in the western side, sometimes in the
northern side," is that any value? So as soon as there will be many schools, that means the
conclusion is not like that.

Yaśomatīnandana: Someone was telling me, and I was telling that if somebody is not following
the particular characteristic of a saintly person mentioned in the śastra, they cannot be accepted as
a sādhu. So he was trying to prove that some sādhus, so-called, who eat meat, and who are
drinking, they were actually great paramahaṁsas. And then I... He said that because in the previous
ages there is mention of... In the śāstras there is mention that there were many ṛṣis and munis who
were eating meat.

Prabhupāda: He knows them. He is such a rascal that he knows only and nobody knows. That is
the verdict of this Rāmakrishna Mission.

Yaśomatīnandana: They say that they would... These ṛṣis would kill one elephant or something
like that, and they would live on him for whole year.

Prabhupāda: Where is that information? Where he got this information? You did not challenge?

Yaśomatīnandana: Well, I said that that muni must be just like the ṛṣis and munis you are talking
about now.

Prabhupāda: We don't find any such thing. In this way they have ruined Indian culture by
misquoting, by misleading.

Yaśomatīnandana: And he admitted that Vivekānanda smoked gaja and he was eating meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: But for such a soul, he said, there is no conditioning like that. Then, when you
quote any verse from Bhagavad-gītā contrary to such statement, immediately he would say,
"Well, Bhagavad-gītā is not the only scripture."

Prabhupāda: [break] ...very nicely, without any

fail. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām [SB 1.2.8]. But if he does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then
where is the profit? It is simply waste of time and energy. śrama eva hi kevalam. Anything,
whatever it may be, it doesn't matter. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta... If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then
he is guru. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. (Hindi)

Yaśomatīnandana: [break] ...people, they are nice pious people, and they have accepted some of
these gymnastic people as their guru. So they say, "Oh, our guruji is here. We have to go see
our guruji," this, that. So how should we speak to them or how should we preach to them?
Prabhupāda: That you cannot do immediately unless he understands your
philosophy. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. Unless they understand that this philosophy is better
than that, how he can give it up?

Yaśomatīnandana: Sometimes they even say that "You have your guru and I have my guru. It's all
the same thing."

Prabhupāda: Yes, and a thief has also a guru. Then that guru is also the same thing. (Hindi)
Here guru means tasmād gurum prapadyeta jijāsur śreya uttaman [SB 11.3.21]. (Hindi) Nāpnuvanti
mahātmānam saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ.

Yaśomatīnandana: Isn't there some conditioning between the guru and śiśya, that "The guru should
be like this and a śiśya should be like this"?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: Not that anybody can say, "I am śiśya," and not anybody can say, "I am guru."

Prabhupāda: Saṁsara-dāvā. You are singing daily. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. One who can deliver from this entanglement of material,
miserable condition of life, he is guru. That is the first definition of guru. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-
loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa—one who has obtained this
qualification—vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāra..., he is guru **.

Yaśomatīnandana: 'Cause nowadays...

Prabhupāda: Nowadays... Nowadays let them talk all nonsense. But this is the definition of guru.
"Nowadays the sun is rising on the western side." If somebody says like that, who is going to accept
it? "Nowadays." There is no question of "nowadays" and "formerly." The truth is truth
always. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is Absolute Truth. Jaya.

Yaśomatīnandana: So many yajas and siddhis and everything going on, everywhere you see. It's
so hard...

Prabhupāda: Yajaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Those who are very
intelligent, those whose brain clear, they, yajaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ.

ye yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

 tretayaṁ yajato makhaiḥ
dvapare paricaryayaṁ
kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt

What yajas they will perform? Not possible. Where is the yajic brāhmaṇa? [break] "Don't talk. I am
very busy." (laughter) [break] ...greatest contribution?

Brahmānanda: "The greatest contribution of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is its authorized
translations of Vedic literature." Oh, "The greatest contribution to scholars." No. "The greatest
contribution of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is that it is providing to scholars authorized translations
of these Vedic literatures."

Prabhupāda: That is the remark of a very big professor.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how do we support our challenge that they have not gone to the
moon?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (3): How do we support our challenge to the scientists that they have not actually gone to
the moon?

Prabhupāda: First proof is that they say that there is no life. That is foolishness. There is life.
Because we find everywhere life, why not in the moon planet? And there are many others. The first
challenge is this.

Devotee (3): They say that they have not seen the life, though.

Prabhupāda: But what you can see, rascal? Therefore we say you are rascals. Why do you believe
your eyes? You cannot see so many things. We don't find any living entity in the ocean. Does it
mean there is no living entity? So what is the value of your seeing? That is the defect. They believe
in too much their eyes. Although eyes are... Every sense is imperfect. You can see here: "Oh, we
don't find anything. It is all zero." Does it mean the sky is zero? There are millions of planets and
millions of living entities. So that is their rascaldom. They think that they are perfect. Whatever they
see, that is perfect. That is their mistake. If I say, "No, there is no life. I cannot see," is that very
good statement? And in the..., externally you don't find any living entity, but is it void of living
entities? Then why shall I assert that "There is no living... I cannot see"? Is that very good proposal?
Therefore they are rascals. There cannot be any place within this universe which is without life.
There cannot be. We see there is life even within sand. How you can say there is no life? "Because I
cannot see." What is this argument? What you are? You are a rascal. Because you cannot see,
therefore we have to accept? First of all we say you are rascal. And if he says that "I cannot see," is
it to be accepted? And the example is there. "I cannot see any life. It is simply water." But there are
millions and trillions of life, big, big fish. Where is your perfection of seeing?

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda? Why are the big authorities, like the government people...?

Prabhupāda: Nobody is authority. That is our first assertion. Nobody is authority. Therefore we
have placed Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is only authority. All rascals. That is our first assertion-
(aside:) Good morning—that except Kṛṣṇa there is no authority. And one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is
authority.

Devotee (3): Why are the so-called scientists trying to make the common people believe that...

Prabhupāda: Because they are so-called scientists. You have already explained. Why you are
asking? (laughter) You have already explained, "so-called scientists." That's all. They are not
scientists; they are so-called scientists.

Devotee (3): Why do they want to fool the people?

Prabhupāda: Because you are fool. Because you are fool, therefore you become befooled. We do
not become befooled by their words. You are fool; you will be befooled. If you want to remain fool,
then you will be befooled. And if you become intelligent, then you will not be befooled. They can
befool when there are many fools. If there is no fool they cannot befool. So you follow this?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Devotee (3): The scientists, they are also fools.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (3): The scientists are also fools.

P r a b h u p ā d a : Ye s . M ū ḍ h a . T h a t i s o u r d e f i n i t i o n i n t h e B h a g a v a d -
gita. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So much
educated? māyayāpahṛta-jānā āsuraṁ-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Their knowledge has no value.
The māyā has taken away everything.

Indian man (4): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: māyayāpahṛta jānā. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (4): Honor...

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Unless one

understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Veda means knowledge. So all
kinds of knowledge, they are aiming at the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if one does not
understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then māyayāpahṛta-jānā—he has no
knowledge. Knowledge means ultimately he must know what is God. That is
knowledge. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he becomes guru.
Otherwise not. The first test is you may be scientist, philosopher, educationist, whatever you may
be, but ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If he says, "No," then he is a fool. That's all. This is the test.
(chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, do you agree?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a good test.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Goldsmith, they take a stone, black stone. Do you know? And they rub
the gold on the stone, and they can immediately say whether it is gold or not. So our, that stone,
is Kṛṣṇa. If anyone knows Kṛṣṇa, then it is gold. (laughter)

Devotee (3): Haribol! Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is bogus.

Indian man (5): It is very good.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Formerly these goldsmith boys, their father simply taught how to test gold.
And as soon as he learns, he opens a shop and he earns thousands and thousands of rupees. No
education. Simply by...
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Even today the jewelers' sons, they are expert in knowing diamonds and
they make millions of rupees.

Indian man (6): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: This is Indian old fashion. They simply know how to test jewels and gold. That's all.
One knowledge makes him rich.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
[Bg. 2.41]

Avyavasāyinām bahu-śākha. And vyavasāyayinām-one. From practical point of view, from business
point of view also, I started this Kṛṣṇa conscious business with forty rupees. Now we have
forty crores. Who has got such business success? (laughter) Bring anyone. Within ten years. And
here is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He is ready to give us any money, any amount of money,
Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, yes, whole Ford Company. (laughter) So who has got this
business? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. I think there is no such history in the world, to begin business with
forty rupees, and within ten years it becomes forty crores. One cannot imagine even.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "You are servant, and wherefrom you will get twelve lakhs of rupees within
three years? You cannot get it." (Hindi) Busy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Learn from dog one lesson. They
are very faithful to the master, very faithful. [break] ...do not see anything now in the sky. Does it
mean it is vacant? So what is the value of your seeing?

Brahmānanda: There's a philosophy that says that if a tree falls down in a forest and I am not there
to see it, then it hasn't happened.

Prabhupāda: There is philosophy?

Brahmānanda: :Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their logic? Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Want to see everything with their own eyes.

Girirāja: :They think the existence of the tree is dependent on their sense perception.

Prabhupāda: Gladstone or what, that poet? "Full many flowers' gloss unseen." Therefore there is
no flower? "Full many flowers' gloss unseen." This is foolish philosophy. Now this plane is going.
After half an hour it will not be seen. Does it mean it is finished? (laughter) There is no more?

Indian man (7): But also in the sky we can see something. I can see many things. I can see
something. It is not vacant space. Only thing I don't know what it is.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot see the stars. Can you see the stars now?

Indian man (7): No.

Prabhupāda: Then can you say there is no star? Then? That means what you cannot see, that is not
final. Therefore our Vedic instruction is śāstra cakṣusāt: You should see through the śastra, not you
these useless eyes. These are useless. Tad-vijānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In
order to know perfectly, one should go to the guru. And Bhagavad-gītā has said,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jānaṁ
jāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
[Bg. 4.34]

"One who has seen, go there and learn it." That is the injunction. Don't try to see yourself. That is
foolishness. This very word is used, tattva-darśinaḥ, "one who has seen." You have to go there and
see through his eyes, through his instruction. That is real seeing.

Devotee (5): :They're paying you respects, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Yaśomatīnandana: No one has any chance against your philosophy. No one has any chance. Many
times people start arguing. Within five or ten minutes they are completely calmed down. And after
fifteen minutes, "Because we started arguing, we have learned so much from you."
Prabhupāda: That is sane man.

Indian man (8): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) [break]

Dr. Patel: Why I come so early and all that. Shall I say, sir?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Dr. Patel:

prasaṅgam ajaraṁ pāśam

ātmanaḥ kavayo viduḥ
sa eva sādhuṣu kṛto
mokṣa-dvāram apāvṛtam

That is why I come so early. You may explain them, sir.

Prabhupāda: No, you explain.

D r. Patel: It is said in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata that your

mind, atmanaḥ prasaṅga, the saṅga. Saṅga means attachment.

Prabhupāda: Prasaṅgam.

Dr. Patel: Prasaṅga and saṅga, the same.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Prakṛṣṭa-rupena saṅga. Very tight.

Dr. Patel: Saṅga. Very tight saṅga, very tight attachment of mind is there always.

Prabhupāda: Not mind, of the soul.

Dr. Patel: atmanaḥ. Because mind and soul, both are... There is always there, ajara, undying. "But
if that attachment is made to a sādhu, that becomes mokṣa-dvāram apāvṛtam, that becomes opening
of the door of mokṣa." So I come here to sādhuṣu kṛtaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, another śloka is made by Rūpa Gosvāmī. He is praying to Kṛṣṇa that "As a
young man has got attachment for young woman and young woman has got attachment for the
young man, similar attachment, when I'll have upon You?" This is very natural to young men and
young women, attachment. The whole world is going on on this, what is called, sex
attachment. Puṁsam striya mithuni-bhavam etad. This material world means they are combined
together on the platform of sex. Yan maithunadi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. So that
is a very great attachment. So Rūpa Gosvāmī is praying, "When I will have the same attachment for
You." Yuvatinam yatha yunoḥ. [break]

Dr. Patel: ...have something else in Gujarati. Indriya nila... (Gujarati) "The work that you do for
satisfaction of the indriyas, (Gujarati)..." That is the bhakti, when you do same action for (Gujarati)
God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difference between kāma and prema. Kāma means worldly
attachment, and prema means attachment for God. That's all. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is
said, atmendriya-tṛpti-vacha tara nāma kāma: "When one desires his own sense gratification, that
is called kāma." And kṛṣṇendriya-tṛpti-vacha dhare prema nāma.

Dr. Patel: That is prema.

Prabhupāda: That is prema. "When one wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses, that is prema."

Dr. Patel: That is called lust and love.

Prabhupāda: This is the difference between lust and love. Just like gopīs. It looks like kāma but it
is prema.

Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that gopīs really, they are kāma-toṣa, and when they touched the sacred feet
of Kṛṣṇa their whole thing was turned into the sacred prema.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because, you see, every woman loves the husband, but they don't become gopīs because
the husband hasn't got that qualities like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was above three guṇas, so they became tri-
guṇātita, all gopīs. Actually they were motivated by kama, but when they actually had the source of
all prema, touched the feet of Kṛṣṇa, they converted themselves beyond all the three guṇas. Because
God is not within the māyā, He is above it, so anything which was there comes above it.
Prabhupāda: [break] ...understanding Kṛṣṇa's position, if one... Kṛṣṇa...

Dr. Patel: They are talking nonsense about rasa-līlā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They are so silly, they don't understand, because they include their own self there. They
think that Kṛṣṇa was just like them, and then they certify(?) themselves with gopīs, what they would
do with gopīs.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. Paraṁ bhāvam ajān
antaḥ. Param (Hindi) Otherwise it is...

Dr. Patel: It is said that gopīs were not foolish. They were very intelligent girls, extremely, because
they chose what was to be chosen.

Prabhupāda: [break] Eternal companion of Kṛṣṇa. ananda-cinmaya-rasa pratibhāvitābhis

tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāva. The gopīs are
expansion of Kṛṣṇa's ananda-cinmāyā-rasa pleasure
potency. Rūpa Gosvāmī, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. (Hindi)
Tucchavat. But the engagement was gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg.
9.59].

Dr. Patel: Yes, that is right sir. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Because the little part of it is remaining
there and that never goes away from anyone with God.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭi, sādhu... (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Hm. Because they are the agents of param.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Mokṣa-dvāra apāvṛtam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Bhakti without jāna can be practiced. So when there
is bhakti, automatically there is jāna.

vāsudeve bhagavati
 bhakti-yogaḥ-prayojitaḥ
janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
jānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
[SB 1.2.7]

Without bhakti there is no jāna. But without jāna bhakti can be practiced.

Devotee: Jaya. Haribol.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Ye s . Otherwise

why Kṛṣṇa says, striya śūdrās tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. (Hindi) Stri, śūdra or vaiśya, t
hey are not advanced in knowledge,
but Kṛṣṇa says, striya śūdrās tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye '
pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. (Hindi) Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ-
prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. When he applies bhakti-yoga at the lotus feet
of Vāsudeva, janayaty āśu vairāgyam. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Jāna means only God is right, Kṛṣṇa is right, and all this is wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, jāna means... Real jāna means "We don't want this material world." That
is jāna. That is vairāgya because people are attached to this material world, and jāna means
completely detached. But he's suffering. On account of this attachment, he's taking repeatedly birth,
birth, birth, death, birth, death, birth. So jāna means to get release from this repetition of birth and
death.

Dr. Patel: That is because the people have atmā-buddhi and kunape tri-dhātuke.

Prabhupāda: These rascals talk of jāna, but they keep full attachment for this material world.

Dr. Patel: The kunape tri-dhātuke.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Jāna-vairāgyam. One must feel disgusted in this material world, repetition of
birth and death. That is jāna. If one is not disgusted—he still thinks it is very nice to take birth and
die—then where is jāna? There is no jāna. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's disciples
said, ara nare bak. Ara nare bak. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: No, even, you see, sir, this attraction to the other sex is so strong and great it is very
difficult for human beings to get relief.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be explained. That is explained, Bhagavad-gītā,

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayi

mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taran...
[Bg. 7.14]

This is the way. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: Extremely difficult, that even man like Gautama Buddha had several times come back to
see his child and son when he left his house, more than half a dozen times, come and go, come and
go. Finally he closed his eyes and ran away. A man of that type. And for ordinary human beings it is
very difficult.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. Therefore vānaprastha is recommended, that "Go out of home,
remain in the tīrtha-sthana and again come. See your children. Again go. Then take sannyāsa.

Dr. Patel: Tapering it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: That is why devata-loka is not a place from where you can have a release. It is from
human life that you can have moksa. Devatas cannot get it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, human... Devatas cannot because they have got enough of material
enjoyment.

Dr. Patel: The Americans.

Prabhupāda: Just like America... (laughs) Americans have not even one per cent. They are many
thousands times opulent, the demigods. So it is very difficult. Just like here for a very rich man to
take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult. That is a disquali...

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
 tayāpahṛta-cetasām
vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ
samādhau na dhigacchati
[Bg. 2.44]

(Hindi) Voluntarily sannyāsa. All big, big kings in India, voluntarily: "Eh! Give it! Kick it
out!" Mahārāja Bhārata, at the age of twenty-four years, he left everything, young wife, children,
kingdom, whole world—gave it up. This is Indian culture, vairāgya. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, (Hindi)
as soon as the grandson, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, was major: "Take it. We are going." That is the fact.
(Hindi) Even Mahatma [Gandhi]. He declared himself mahātmā. He is such a mahātmā that unless
he was killed by Goli(?), he was not leaving anything. He was not prepared. This is mahātmā, Kali-
yūga ka mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso
[Bg. 9.13]. (Hindi) ...politics, politics, politics. (Hindi) ...nonviolence theory. Kṛṣṇa said, "You will
die by violence. Nonviolence, there cannot be nonviolence. You wanted to prove nonviolence
from Bhagavad-gītā and criticize Me, Kṛṣṇa. All right, you die." Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: But it is a narrow sight that Kṛṣṇa was a war-mongerer. Mr. Nehru. He was more...

Prabhupāda: Nehru is... What is his value?

Dr. Patel: He said, "Kṛṣṇa is the greatest war-mongerer."

Prabhupāda: Nehru and company are praised... That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhag... Śva-viḍ-
varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. A big animal is being
eulogized by small animals. Does it mean a big animal is a human being? He's animal.

Dr. Patel: I think he had not understood exactly.

Prabhupāda: What he understood?

Dr. Patel: The second adhyaya, Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: He never knew what is Gītā. He plainly...

Yaśomatīnandana: He was an atheist.

Prabhupāda: In America, when he went, somebody requested, "You explain something of Gītā."
He said, "I do not know much about Gītā." He explained. He frankly admitted that "I do not know."
His excuse was like that. And he did not know anything. He thought, "Overnight, if I make my
country like America, that is success." And he constructed a few skyscraper building, or big, big
building in New Delhi, and he thought, "My country is like that." Therefore, when President
Eisenhower came, he wanted to see the village. And as soon as he saw the village, the secret was
out.

Dr. Patel: No, that man was a dreamer rather than a practical man. Practical man was only Sadar
Patel.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. [break] Those who are intelligent Indians, they should combine together and
present Indian culture as it is. Then the country is glorified. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
[break] ...kari karo paropakara. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The whole world is in
darkness. Give them some light. First of all you yourself take light; then you distribute.
[break] ...letter, that "Now you have got svarājya, you give up this nonsense. Preach Bhagavad-
gītā. Otherwise you will meet the fate of Mussolini." And actually it was done.

Yaśomatīnandana: It seems that it is better that he did not preach Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: With his understanding.

Prabhupāda: Of course, one cannot preach Bhagavad-gītā unless he is empowered by Kṛṣṇa. That
is not possible. Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracaraṇa. It is not possible. (end)