Unknown Speaker 00:00

understand

Unknown Speaker 00:07

the question really

Unknown Speaker 00:14

because local government oversees local authorities. So, in terms of the policies that local
government local authority aligned to that in terms of making those choices distributed, okay.

Unknown Speaker 00:27

So, local authorities, like you have rightly indicated are preferred over by the Ministry of local
government, we all belong to the Minister of Local Government and rural development. So, when
policies are made at that level, they are made on behalf of the local authorities. So, if there's a policy
proclamation that has been made, it will be translated into what each and every local authority has
to do in order to meet or to fit into that same policy that has been made.

Unknown Speaker 01:06

In terms of your roles and responsibilities in terms of supporting local governance itself, in terms of
fiscal management, can you point out a few key issues in which the local authority itself implements
in terms of fiscal management?

Unknown Speaker 01:24

Okay, so local authorities operate not independently of the various laws and regulations that are
available. So in this case, when we talk about governance, yes, it is. It is a council that has a number
of councilors, we've got standing committees that deliberate on different issues, but all that is done
within the confines of the laws that are provided or that govern the local authority, financial
management, all those processes and procedures that are supposed to be adhered to definitely
adhere to when it comes to expenses or even mobilization of resources. For instance, you cannot just
incur debt anyhow, you need to have all the authority you cannot dispose of assets, you need the all
the relevant authority and all that in the in the in the same in the same like

Unknown Speaker 02:34

coming to that commission about the law, maybe we can maybe tap into that a bit any key legal
frameworks that you feel guide the local authorities as a function in terms of the resource
mobilization, expenditure and debt management, and which aspects of these law legal frameworks
are effective in European Union.
Unknown Speaker 02:59

So, we, we have our main act, which is the Local Government Act, it provides on provides for various
aspects of like how local authorities come up with fees and charges, how do we make the bylaws and
that kind of arrangement, we are also governed or rather we we have the Public Finance
Management Act, that we have to follow. Remember that even as we are government at local level,
we are not devoid of having to follow what is being done at central government level. So every policy
direction that is issued at policy at a government at national level, that is the policy that we follow,
even at district level. So the various laws that are given the constituency Development Fund Act, the
roads act, Public Health Act, and all those are pieces of legislation that we have to adhere to, even as
we undertake our operations as a local authority.

Unknown Speaker 04:08

Any challenges with any of these legal frameworks executing information

Unknown Speaker 04:17

that you've got, you've caught me off. guard comes to mind sometimes we found ourselves in a
situation where certain provisions are more or less like overlapping and then you have to ascertain
which one should prevail. In this case, if we talk about financial issues, the Public Finance
Management Act is one such act that we need to follow as we undertake our financial transactions.

Unknown Speaker 04:52

Okay, next, we can maybe touch a bit on the revenue mobilization challenges. Sure. That being
specific challenges that you observe in terms of raising revenue, there going to be legal
administrative bulletin. So

Unknown Speaker 05:08

specifically for chingola Municipal Council, our major source of revenue here is property rights. And
these property rates are a godsend from mainly the mining companies and also the residential, the
private properties. I should say that 90% of the budget for the local authority is actually rates that are
coming from the very various yes, that have been mentioned. But you see revenue also it moves in
different at different temples, there are times that you collect more than what you expect to collect,
that is in a good season. And there are times when it becomes really, really dry. So, of course, we also
have other traditional sources of revenue, such as we would give out permits, like bearer permits,
and designers we give out licenses. That is in terms of raising revenue. Sometimes we also have
donations for specific events that we we undertake for instance, you know, we have these events like
the World AIDS Day, we we rather coordinate the HIV AIDS activities for for the district. So the officer
that is based here is the one that coordinates when it comes to actually mobilizing for such an event.
Yeah. Other sources of revenue. In a good time you. Of course, we have the grant, the longer
medicalization fund from government. We have also the CDF that's also one fund that comes for on
behalf of the people. Yes. Unless I remember some, but those are some of the things that we rely
upon. You

Unknown Speaker 07:17

mentioned something about donations. So to what extent is the private sector involved in terms of
local revenue mobilization initiatives, or any of the plans that you're just coordinating and bringing
them on

Unknown Speaker 07:35

board? Yes. We've had stakeholder meetings, where we've encouraged some, let me say the
stakeholders to come on board in terms of achieving our developmental agenda. For instance, the
council has a program of coming up with their humps on the road, we've had a number of accidents
around and these been an outcry from different sectors of society. And because we didn't really have
that, as one of the main activities that we needed to undertake, we call upon different stakeholders
to come on board, we still await upon them, to partner with us so that we can have that done. But of
course, the first few humps that we did, we got part of the materials from KCM, which happens to be
one of our major stakeholders in chingola. You know, warehousing, the biggest open pit mine. We
also have a number of other cooperating partners such as China copper mining company nimbala
Minerals is also another mining company that have done projects under Social corporate
responsibility. So they put up like classroom blocks, they have also contributed towards the water
reticulation. Just recently, we had a pure rock that was donating some water reticulation system to
some school, along servizi road. So we do have a goodwill from most of them. A probably is just a
matter of us continuing to move in the same trajectory, if we have to achieve what we have to
achieve. I should also mention very quickly that we have what we're calling an integrated
development plan, which we're planning is going to give even more information regarding the same.
So this is a document that harnesses all sectors, in terms of what they can input in order to develop
our district. When we're formulating the same document. Everyone came on board, because we
needed to know what more Longer, for instance, that is the water sector, what they had in their in
the offing in order to develop their districts, we also got input from agriculture, social welfare, just
the different, including the private sector, you know, the main economic activity here is mining. So
you find that this document is actually encompassing all those may not be detailed activities, but a
general framework of what we want to see in wallet tomorrow. So, those are some of the things that
help us that guide us in terms of getting to do certain projects that are supposed to benefit people.

Unknown Speaker 10:45

It really is, yes,

Unknown Speaker 10:47

it is approved, except it is not yet launched by the Minister of Local Government.

Unknown Speaker 10:55

The close of this section, what strategies do you think you can propose to improve remaining
organization within municipal municipality but as well as other local authorities maybe experience.

Unknown Speaker 11:12

So we will not run away from the fact that now we, the whole world is going digital. So we also have
certain parts where we do things manually. Our belief is that if we go full time digital, we may find
that revenue collection will be the efficiencies will be enhanced, because it will be less of physical
interaction and more of just the transactions online. We did start that on a pilot project, we
introduced what we're calling the cousin into impella. Market, it proved well, although it's giving us
challenges of the network, so because that you need network in order to operate, then also just here
at the Civic Center, just at the entrance there. At the reception, we the revenue hole, we call it.
We've introduced two swiping machines. So we have clients that in today's world, people don't want
to use cash. Yes. So that is also allowed. Yes, what else have we done? We know that at times, we
have difficulties in terms of paying certain offerings to the local authority, we've allowed the our our
stakeholders to come up with payment plans. So that we can be an agreement with a local authority
to see how much they can do in order to liquidate their debts with a local authority. And the saw is
the same with the local authority. With our creditors, we've come up with plans on how we can look
with it.

Unknown Speaker 13:04

Not going to oh, by the way, it's a very beautiful, very, very beautiful.

Unknown Speaker 13:10

Thank you so much. I'm in the civic center. We just did a coat of paint just last year

Unknown Speaker 13:17

in the green yet, it just wants to thank you so

Unknown Speaker 13:19

much. So the idea is that if we can clean ourselves would want also other stakeholders to do the
same, then that's what makes up chingola. You will find that because we do keep them get clean
campaign activities every Friday. So once in a month, we make it a point that the cleaning is done just
here at the Civic Center. We scrub walls, and we clean toilets. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 13:49

Is there a plan for all the local districts councils to do their thing?
Unknown Speaker 14:00

I can't speak for them. But well, that's what we do here.

Unknown Speaker 14:15

We know we are not at that level, but we just want to be running towards the same hopefully issues
now. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 14:28

So what do you think are the main drivers of debt in?

Unknown Speaker 14:33

Okay. I think speaking for chingola. The major factor is that these dates are historical. You may be
aware that there was a time when we're not doing too well. And by the way, they economy of
chingola is fully dependent on the minds. So if the minds are thriving, then you find economic
activity is happening and the council will be But to deliver the service, so where we have challenges,
you will find that will also slow down, it becomes difficult to to undertake the same.

Unknown Speaker 15:13

Then, in terms of monitoring mechanisms that you have in place in terms of debts, finances as well.

Unknown Speaker 15:29

Okay, so if we talk about is it monitoring what we owe others or what they owe us? What you what
we owe others, like I indicated earlier, we have payment plans that are in place. We've agreed with
different institutions that we're going Malanga, for instance, we, we have a monthly payment that we
make, we also make a payment to nappsa towards the areas. But of course, we do pay the parent as
well as the statutory obligations. Last year, equally, we do pay something towards the areas, we have
said IRA. We also have the, the human capital, you know, we have those that have retired, and those
that have unfortunately passed on whilst in savings. So we've computed all their benefits. And we
also give it a priority that when in good times, we can have something paid off to them. And even for
officers that are serving, yes, we have some of them that are owed long service bonus, and other
probably leave days and so on. So bit by bit, we try to offset when when the days are good.

Unknown Speaker 16:58

Yeah. You mentioned that one of the areas in which you receive resources from the grants from
central government. Do they buy in any chance making the deductions from the end when
dismantling some of the details? Thank you. So how do they determine what they did?
Unknown Speaker 17:18

Yes, so normally, Ministry of local government does pay less if directly on on behalf of the local
authority. They also pay the unions, we have two unions here, Fire Services Union of Zambia and
allow some genetic local authority Workers Union. So they do I think that is the name in a bit just to
help the local authorities. So you find that from the grant, they will cut at source and pay those but
they do notify us they will provide changes to say, for this month. These are the deductions that have
been made. And we use that to adjust our records. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:04

Are you involved in any way determining

Unknown Speaker 18:07

the Owings Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:12

That is just communicated.

Unknown Speaker 18:16

Normally, when the ministry is trying to assist in such a manner, they want to get information from
the local authority to know how much is owed. And you know, we do receipts and payments that
show because we do submit there. So, they use that to even track they are able to see how we are
performing in terms of finances, revenue and expenditure. So, just from that, we are able to tell
whether this council is able to cater for maybe whatever is needed to be catered for.

Unknown Speaker 18:55

Again, on this one, just to close off, maybe what strategies do you think you could implement just to
improve the management of it and areas?

Unknown Speaker 19:08

Strategies, management or debts? Oh, the first thing which is I think happening everywhere else is
we need to tighten our belts. It will be folly for us to think that life will continue as it was before. So
we take advantage of the environment that we are in probably the good political will to try as much
as possible of set whatever we realize we may have, and do very little, if possible, not to contract
anymore. So you'll find that even in our books of finance, we do payments to certain restrictions on
the current amount that is supposed to be paid and also something towards the Yes, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 20:06

Now, well, let's talk a bit about centralization. Of course, that was implemented a couple of years
ago. And we want to just get your perspective on how the physical side of decentralization has been.
With regards to social mobilization, and debt management, how's that process been? The
transitioning?

Unknown Speaker 20:29

Okay, so let me start from the very known fact of constituents involvement funds being evidence of
devolution. So these are monies that come to the local authority, and they are spent according to the
projects that are approved, which are identified by the various communities. We have a budget as a
local authority, and the that budget stipulates what we want to do in that particular year. These are
budgets that are, by the way, also approved by the Minister of Local Government. We are now
running what we are calling output based budgets. So in those budgets, we are able to track and
determine, for instance, who are setting what we have done and what we have not done, what
resources have been, we will we've raised what we have not been able to raise. So it's not like we still
have to go back to our mother body, the ministry to find out whether we can spend on this No. So
we use our very own budget, which we made ourselves, in fact, just this June, before the end of
June, we are having a stakeholders meeting, we normally have the word development committees,
the church and other stakeholders that come on board to also give an input on what they think could
be done the following year, but we do not depart from the integrated development plan. So
whatever input is coming, should actually be sitting in the IDP if it is drawn, so it would just be a
matter of seven, in which area are we doing the roads and that kind of arrangement? So to speak
about decentralization, we make our own decisions. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 22:24

In terms of guidance and support, has there been enough of that given to

Unknown Speaker 22:35

this transition is that is that which level? Throughout the version? What I mean, is the guidance and
support is it from the nation or just amongst ourselves? Yes, so we have an approach of teamwork.
What do I mean by that? So for every program, every activity that we have to undertake, we do sit as
management, to discuss and agree on what we can put as priority. Even when it comes to national
events that we are supposed to hold. We seek to plan together when it comes to the governance
part, because we already have the budget that has stipulated what we need to do. We have the
council that approves that those activities that we have to undertake. So once they approved the
time, or rather the council basically adopts the ministry approves, that's what we use. So you'll find
that even when we are undertaking those, the the council which is the board of will, we will already
know that this is something that we have already agreed upon. And we just have to undertake, after
all, most of the activities we undertake the projects are falling in their ones. So even at the time of
implementation. They're somehow to a great extent, part and parcel because these things are being
done, where they're coming from.
Unknown Speaker 24:10

Then, of course, regardless of centralization, there's still a branch that coming in from Central
Government is a challenge that you face in terms of receiving these monies.

Unknown Speaker 24:27

I wouldn't really, really mention any particular challenge. Remember I said what temped under
grants, is the CDF itself. And CDF is specific. This time. We receive this money as we request for it,
and like the way it used to be yes. And then we also the equalization fund comes every month
chingola with a wage bill of 4.5 million and receiving equalization Over 1 million, we just use it to
settle certain debts that we have. And that has been consistent. We now have one new arrangement
under the decentralization aspect, where those departments that are having functions that have
been devolved to the local authority, and now receiving their funds through what we're calling the
sector, devolution grant accounts. We've opened one account where those monies are now being
remitted to a one clear example is Ministry of Health. We have so far received the first allocation,
and they've quickly utilized according to the budget, because everything just has to be according to
what was budgeted. We've also received funds and spots. We are making arrangements with
different stakeholders to see how we can proceed with the same but we are following the budget,
because every fund that comes is being remitted in line with what was budgeted and approved. So
unless we realigned budgets, especially the council budget, we may not find ourselves spending on
things that are not in the budget.

Unknown Speaker 26:23

Is it an innovation of the quality or it's being done?

Unknown Speaker 26:28

So this is policy B, coming from the decentralization aspect? Yes. So this is meant to cater for funds.
In fact, we've also received funds and veterinary services. They've got functions that have been
devolved to the local authority. Yes. So the idea is that even at district level, we should be able to,
yes, coordinate and implement accordingly. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 26:55

Okay, then I think we can touch a bit on the data just to as a closing, of course, we did. Tracking
financial tracking, it's important to read readily available, just get insights from that. In terms of the
audited financial reports that you produce, how frequently are they are they produced

Unknown Speaker 27:23

the financial reports? Okay, so like I had indicated earlier, when we talk about the receipts and
payments, these are produced quarterly, but they'll cover a period of three months. In normal
circumstances, would say that they're produced monthly, but they think due to the many
transactional actions that they have to undertake. So those are produced quarterly, and they're also
reported to council through the relevant committee of finance, just to help us track what has come in
and what expenditure that has been made audit, we do have a standing committee of audit that also
looks at the audit reports that are generated by our audit unit, you will know that audit is cross
cutting, if I may use that word. Without them, we may notice the way you may we would not even
make any payments. So, this this is the unit that should help to check whether we are on the same
on the one that on the proper trajectory will try to to make the payments. That aspect, of course, will
audits in the checking, but also future planning. There are instances in which these reports including
annual reports are used for future planning. Yes, yes. And what is the IDP? Yes. So, you will find that
the performance of the budget for a certain year has good bearing on the new budget that will be
made for the following year. So, the financial reports will give us the various areas that we indicate
where we fairly could have done well and could even do better and to also show where seemingly
we could have over budgeted but did not manage to to collect according to what we thought we
could collect. So it helps us to realign and keep on rebalancing so that we get closer as possible to to
reality when it comes to what we have in the budget.

Unknown Speaker 29:49

Lastly, another way of budgeting has changed as Will you be but in terms of systems within the local
authority, are there any existing challenges you have Two systems in terms of data collection,
management and utilization of the same

Unknown Speaker 03:26

challenges in terms of data collection

Unknown Speaker 03:31

systems that you usually place that are not there that could improve certain information flowing.
Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 03:38

so as to go back as to fall back on the aspect of digitizing every aspect. So when we go digital, you
will find that every little information that we'll be looking for, we'll be able to find it at any particular
time. In this case, because we're not fully digitized. One has to move from one end to the other, or
ask from the sister department on whatever information that they may be looking at. We had
attempted in the past to come up with what we're calling an integrated information system. Of
course, some software was procured, but it proved to be limited. The provisions were quite limited
because the idea was that if we get information from planning, there's also information maybe from
housing, because housing deals with settlements and all that legal deals with the final issues of giving
an example of plots may be the offering and what so legal need not go to the various places to look
for that information. Just when they click they should be able to tell that Oh, okay. According to this
map, by the planning, there's this provision or health Yeah, As I as the case may be, now, that's
software was supposed to help us. Because that information also feeds into the finance, we'll be able
to tell from what we have whether we are able to generate more monies or whatever the case may
be. But like I said, it was quite limiting. If it hurts, what the where it was desired that it should, I think
it would have been a different story. Yeah, you can sit here you get the information, you will the
person downstairs.

Unknown Speaker 05:41

I just wanted to clarify, how much is the wage bill.

Unknown Speaker 05:45

As of today, our wage bill is 4.5 million. So that is gross, gross in the sense that we still have to pay
our statutory obligations. And we also have, you know, people that have retired but have not yet
been paid their terminal benefits and maintained on the payroll. So we have a few of those also, who
are they're bringing the total number of the workforce to 527.

Unknown Speaker 06:13

Is against the one central government, central

Unknown Speaker 06:18

government, that's an operational grant, not specifically for yours, but for other councils may be who
may be a little bit lean. It helps to pay off their their wages chingola has got a very high operational
costs. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 06:47

If we're talking about the 1 million to pay salaries, it can't. Yes. So we use it. We it helps us actually to
pay some of the statutory obligations, and also pay some of the areas that we have with that certain
amounts from there, just to to help Yes.

Unknown Speaker 07:10

revenue opportunities to see the future in the future, based on your upcoming IDP, what.

Unknown Speaker 07:22

So generally, the IDP is showing a shift from the central business where we are sitting right now
towards Saudi Arabia, right? Yes, this IDP is giving a reflection of the various developments that are
supposed to be seen in that area. We're talking about today, petroleum industries, and many other
areas. Currently, as a local authority, we we have embarked on a program of identifying projects that
can be done on PPP basis. As I speak to you, we have one just within town here, a place called avec,
we call it ethics. It's a council property, where we propose to have a hotel and a feeding station on
PPP basis. The approval has since been received from Minister of Finance, we are now undertaking
the interim environmental impact assessment. And then after that, we'll be guided on on how we're
going to proceed. So the idea is for us to really in not fully concentrate on one source of revenue. Yes.
In dry times, we can still fall back on

Unknown Speaker 08:50

Thank you very much. Hope that was 30 minutes or less. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai