ACTING AND SUBTEXT IN SAM LEVINSONS FILM MALCOLM

AND MARIE

BY
LAWAL DAMILARE FERANMI
(DRA/2017/055)

A FINAL YEAR PROJECT SUBMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT

OF DRAMATIC ARTS, OBAFEMI AWOLOWO UNIVERSITY ILE-
IFE, OSUN STATE, NIGERIA.
IN PARTIAL FULFILMENT OF THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE
AWARD OF THE BACHELOR OF ARTS DEGREE IN DRAMATIC
ARTS

JULY, 2023

i
 CERTIFICATION

I hereby certify that this work was carried out through research by Lawal Damilare Feranmi with

Matric Number DRA/2017/055 for the award of Bachelor of Arts Degree in the Department of

Dramatic Arts, Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-ife, under my supervisor.

_______________________ ________________________

DR. T.J. AWAWUER DATE

SUPERVISOR

_______________________ ________________________

PROF. A.B. RAJI DATE

HEAD OF DEPARTMENT

ii
 DEDICATION

This research work is dedicated to My Creator, My mother and Aderomola Ojedokun.

iii
 ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

I give all thanks to My Creator for his help during the process of this study and research work.

My sincere appreciation goes to my Supervisor DR. T.J. AWAWUER for his support and show

of love to me over the years.

My utmost appreciation goes to my Mother, Bola Lawal who has contributed immensely,

morally, financially and spiritually towards my wellbeing throughout my stay in school. You will

live to reap the fruit of your labour.

My appreciation also goes to Mr. Taofeek Adebayo for his fatherly contributions in my life.

My sincere appreciation goes to my Supervisor, Dr. Tijime Justin Awawuer, for his humane

show of support. Thank you for everything, sir.

I would also love to thank Sam Levinson, Zendaya and John David Washington for their

excellent artistry.

Appreciation to everyone who has one way or the other helped to become who I am.

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 TABLE OF CONTENTS
TABLE OF CONTENTS
TITLE PAGE i

CERTIFICATION ii

DEDICATION iii

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT iv

TABLE OF CONTENTS v

CHAPTER ONE: INTRODUCTION 1

1.1 BACKGROUND TO THE STUDY 1

1.2 STATEMENT OF THE PROBLEM 3

1.3 AIMS AND OBJECTIVE OF THE STUDY 3

1.4 JUSTIFICATION OF THE STUDY 3

1.5 SCOPE OF THE STUDY 3

1.6 METHODOLOGY 4

CHAPTER TWO: LITERATURE REVIEW 5

2.1 INTRODUCTION 5

2.2 CONCEPTUAL CLARIFICATION 5

2.3 AN ACTOR’S SCRIPT 8

2.4 AN ACTOR PREPARES 9

2.5 SUBTEXT IN ACTING 9

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CHAPTER THREE: ANALYSIS OF THE FILM 11

3.1 ANALYSIS OF THE FILM, MALCOLM AND MARIE 11

3.2 BACKGROUND INFORMATION OF THE ACTOR, JOHN DAVID

WASHINGTON 12

3.3 BACKGROUND INFORMATION OF THE ACTOR, ZENDAYA 12

3.4 TYPES OF SUBTEXT IN ACTING 13

3.5 FEATURES OF SUBTEXT IN ACTING 13

3.6 PURPOSE OF SUBTEXT IN ACTING 14

CHAPTER FOUR: SUMMARY, FINDINGS, RECOMMENDATIONS AND

CONCLUSION

4.1 SUMMARY 16

4.2 FINDINGS 16

4.3 RECOMMENDATIONS 16

4.4 CONCLUSION 17

BIBLIOGRAPHY 18

FILMOGRAPHY 18

REFERENCES 19

WEBLIOGRAPHY 19

APPENDIX I 20

APPENDIX II 29

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 CHAPTER ONE

INTRODUCTION

1.1 Background to the Study

In the beginning, pretenders were made. I propose that the first actor is Eve and Adam who,

according to the Christian knowledge did not only eat the forbidden fruit, but as soon as they

were confronted by their Maker, they pretend and “hide” under the guise of pretence. Without

saying a word, through their body language, the good lord is fully aware of their deeds;

according to me, this scene that was staged in the universe was the beginning of Acting and

Subtext or any form of art related to it.

Unprofessionally speaking, every human is not only a character in his own world, but also a

living actor. As humans live, they maneuver through challenges faced every single day by

deploying the use of Subtext . The art of acting is a reflection of the complexity of human

physiology and more importantly, psychology. Moreover, a better way to understand Acting

according to John Swain is “creating an active thought process that ignites an emotion that

provokes a behaviour”.

The art of Acting is in itself to me not “acting”. I have never for a moment found the

truthfulness and authenticity of this art in just “acting”. It is mediocre to me to describe it

plainly as acting. This would mean the simile (be like) of a fully-dynamic character. The art is

an art of Character creation. Simply, In the context of this art form, a Character is YOU, the

reader; a character is ME, the writer. An actor’s job lies solely in the creation of a dynamic

human. This is where being an actor comes to fore. It is in itself an arduous task to create a

character, but more complex a task it is to create an interesting character. As Martin scorcese

1
said in his recent interview with Screenplaytips, “The films that I constantly revisit have held

up for me over the years not because of the plot, but because of the character”.

An up and coming actor is responsible for his craft and career in his “industry”. An actor will

in the course of his career, professionally train the “bones” to improve his perception of a

written character on the pages of script. In contrast, the “bones” ensures that the actor is not

just playing the bones, the mood or the label; such as an Actor perceiving the character to be

angry and he also just goes ahead in rehearsals or performance to play the mood “anger”

without a proper homework. As Meryl Streep denotes, “the homework is everything for an

actor”. Meanwhile, the “bones” according to Lajos Egri is the creation of

multi-faceted/dynamic character which consist of three aspects; the physiology of the

character, the sociology of the character and more importantly, the Psychology of the

character. For the purpose of this discourse, “Acting and Subtext in Sam Levinson’s Malcolm

and Marie”, special attention will be paid to how professional actors should understand,

interpret and live through the psychology of their characters that in turn serves as the origin of

Subtext in Acting.

As Hollywood theatre, television and film actor, Christian Bale said, “You can convey almost

everything without saying anything”. In the world of theatre, film and television, I have come

to realise that the most interesting characters are those characters that have things to say in a

scene, but do not open their mouth to say it, but still communicate to the audience. Moreover,

these characters might choose to substitute dialogue with their body language, tone, voice

inflection, voice modulation and humour to create Subtext. Subtext in Acting is simply the

hidden meaning of what characters say or do. This discourse will not be explicitly treated

without the deployment of Sam Levinson’s two cast film, which features John David

2
Washington and Zendaya, who played the characters Malcolm and Marie, respectively, which

is currently airing on Netflix.

1.2 Statement of the Problem

Many scholarly works have been done on Acting and Subtext, however, less attention has

been paid to Sam Levinson’s Malcolm and Marie. This is the gap that this study intends to

fill.

1.3 Aims and Objectives of the Study

The aim and objectives of this essay are to:

1. Analyse the Subtext in the film, Malcom and Marie by Sam Levinson

2. Examine the roles of actors in bringing out the Subtext in the film.

1.4 Justification of this Study

The justification of this study lies in the purpose for improving how actors create a fully

dynamic character. It will suggest the “homework” actors should put into account when they

are at the brink of taking an audience through a journey. It emphasizes on the lines within the

lines and hereby the delivery of a truthful and authentic character.

1.5 The Scope of the Study

The scope of this discourse will ultimately rely on a selected Film from the American Film

Industry (Hollywood). The area of this study is not limited to a particular film industry, but

the actors and the film to be analysed will definitely be from Hollywood.

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1.6 Methodology

The study employs both the primary and secondary sources of data. The first step in the

methodology will involve a review of the literature on the role of the Actor in achieving

Subtext. This will provide a theoretical framework for the study.

The second step will involve a close analysis of the film, Malcolm and Marie. This analysis

will be informed by the theoretical framework developed in the first step.

The third step will involve getting already made interviews between the director, Sam

Levinson and the actor, Zendaya. This interview will seek to gain insight into the director’s

relationship to how an Actor’s Subtext is achieved and maintained. This already-made

interview will be found on the internet.

The final step will involve a thematic analysis of the data collected through a close analysis of

the film and the interview with the director and the actor.

4
 CHAPTER TWO

LITERATURE REVIEW

2.1 INTRODUCTION

This chapter will review some scholar’s perception of Acting and Subtext in relation to the art

and science of screen Acting.

2.2 Conceptual Clarification.

Acting, according to John Howard Swaine is the creation of an active thought process that

ignites an emotion that provokes a behaviour. (THE SCIENCE AND ART OF ACTING FOR

THE CAMERA, Howard, S, 2018:1). Acting is the end of the thought process. The origin of

acting comes from the will to pretend to be something or someone whom one is not,

originally; acting would then mean the art of pretending professionally. The process that

comes before the performance (acting) is as important as the performance itself.

Moreover, the basis of every Acting career is the Talent or innate ability that an individual

possesses. This is ultimately the beginning of “the art of acting” which cannot be taught. This

talent, so to say, is the zeal and passion that this individual has, for the sole purpose of

illuminate humanity. According to Viola Davis, an American Actor, in a YouTube interview,

acting is described as an illumination of humanity. According to North (1991:1) in the

History of Science of Acting, acting is described as “Imaging a person with the desire, thought

and action that makes a man or a woman”. Acting is also defined as the ability to react,

respond and be in imaginary circumstance.

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Wright argues that acting is both art and craft. “The art of acting cannot be taught”. It is

essential that the actor brings this talent to the theatre. It is on this basis that we build the craft.

What then is the craft or the technique? This is not as simple or as hard as it might be. The

craft means different things to different people.

Viola Davis posits that “the reason why I have a degree in theatre and I went to

Julliard School of Acting is for the rest of it. CRAFTING – Crafting a performance… so you

can sort of have a little shroud of protection around yourself and have control over your

work”.

In this discourse being discussed, we have the art and the craft. The craft can simply the be

described as the techniques, knowledge, exposure and research that takes place in the course

of an actor’s process of being a character and being an actor.

Acting as an art is not just about taking the lines into your head and pouring them out with

your mouth. It is not about moving from one end of the stage or the set to the other nor about

portraying characters on surface level, which most times or all of the time ends up in

mediocrity. Micheal Checkov and Nicolia Remisoff state that;

It is a moment when we are using our words and bodies to convince someone’s

emotion or thought that may not, infact, be the literal truth of what we are feeling, but is the

emotion we want the other person to believe we are experiencing. (Chekhov and Remisoff,

1953;3)

Everything about the big word “Acting” all boils to the fact that can one as an actor create an

interesting, believable character? Can the so-called actor communicate to the audience his

feelings, his mind, his psyche, his needs to the audience with words or with the silence

6
between breaths, with the veins in his face, with the vocal cords in his lungs, with the vocal

pitch or inflections that he has mastered, with his movements without even saying a word.

The SUBTEXT. When a story is written and a script is given to the actor, this Script provides

just about 20 percent of what the Actor needs to create a character in truthfulness, to a large

extent. To actors who have the talent, but do not understand the craft, the lines in the script is

the enemy of portraying a truthful character; because these actors just take in their lines, cram

it and pour it out. But the actor who understands the Craft knows that this script provides just

a glimpse or little information about the character. The latter also knows that this is where

“the work” begins, since the Camera is basically interested in what the character is not saying,

rather what the character is thinking; the character’s unconscious or subconscious thought that

drives their behaviour.

Furthermore, it is worthy of note that portraying a character could come in different medium

of expression such as; Acting on stage, Acting for film, Acting for Television, Acting for

Commercials, Acting for Radio, but this discourse as earlier stated solely draws its inspiration

from Sam Levinson’s two cast Film, “Malcolm and Marie”.

In motion pictures or film, unlike Acting for Stage, the Camera “sees” beyond the actor’s

face. The Camera is more intimate, although Veteran Hollywood Actor, Denzel Washington

states that:

All you have to do as an Actor is tell the truth.

What does it mean to tell the truth in this career?

7
2.3 An Actor’s Script

According to Encyclopedia, an Actor’s Script or a Screenplay, is a document that comprises

setting, characters, dialogue and directions for a film, in this context. In live theatre, script

writers are playwrights, while in Television and film, script writers are screenwriters. In this

context, a film script is called a screenplay while a TV script is called a teleplay.

Generally in story-telling, great scripts form the foundation of a great performance, it is not

the only factor in the art of Acting. With the script as the foundation, an Actor needs to create

a fully-dynamic character by not just relying on the script or the text, also having a great

understanding of the use or purpose of Subtext in Acting.

Telling the truth in character is not as simple as it seems. When an actor has applied for an

audition, gotten a callback and has gone through everything else that comes before the final

process of taking up a character in a story, according to Viola Davis in an interview, this actor

has to truthfully create a character;

In acting, when you create a character, you can’t judge that character. That’s the

number one thing you cannot do when you create a character. And you can’t judge a character

to be likeable. It is about being private in public. So think about all the things you do in your

private life. All the things that you have done that nobody knows about. If someone were to

play you, your life, with all those private moments; imagine if they filtered all of it out

because they wanted it to be pretty and likeable. It’s very important that we tell the truth as

much as possible in our art, because I think it makes people feel less alone. What you are

doing is illuminating humanity.

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2.4 An Actor prepares

The actor who fails to take his time to break a scene down to its bare minimum will never find

the “jewels” of that particular scene.

What exactly is a Scene Breakdown in Acting? This conception simply means the process of

re-reading and analysing a scene from bits, beats, the motivations, and in actor’s term, the

Given circumstance. The aforementioned terms are not the obvious lines that every so-called

actor can read. In a script, but these things come in handy when an actor prepares to do his

homework. According to Meryl Streep, “the homework is everything”. As much as I would

love to make succinct explanations and reference to what Subtext in Acting is all about, not

paying close attention to an Actor’s Homework is more like jumping a step of the way.

According to Viola Davis in a Youtube interview, she opines that:

I read the script over and over again. Just to find out, in actor’s terms, “given circumstances”.

Then I write the bio of the character. I try to fill it up as much as possible. What are her

memories, does she have secrets, what is her favourite colour? I do all of that work, first. The

character is always ever-evolving, just like we evolve based on the circumstances that happen

to us. So whatever prep work you do, you leave yourself absolutely alone and know that there

could be something that happens that could be totally out of character.

2.5 Subtext in Acting

Subtext is the “quiet” between breaths. The chaos of Acting can only be controlled with

Subtext. This term, this art is the thin line of communication between the actor, the character

9
and the audience. As the actor assumes dual consciousness when playing a character, the actor

“truthfully” becomes one with the character. Subtext is what defines character in Acting.

Being more explanatory, there could be a scenario where every character ought to say the

same line, but at the end of the day, the audience feels differently towards these individual

line said differently. The reaction of the audience is completely different from one character

to the other. The secret to this is Subtext. Simply put, a situation where a character says “ yes”

without saying “yes”, or saying “nothing” when that character means to say “everything”.

Barbara Houseman opines that:

Text is what is said. Subtext is what lies under and between

what is said; it is expressed by body language, tone of voice and
moments of silence. Text and Subtext each inform the other and
it is vital that both are equally explored. I always start with text
work because it is the most tangible and because it is what the
writer typically gives us. (Bordwell 2009:5)
As actors, we have to create a “subconscious” for our characters so that as these events are

occurring, the emotions relating to these events come from an honest and truthful place. Text

is rather like the framework around which everything else is built and it is much easier to

access the subtext once that frame is in place.

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 CHAPTER THREE

CONTENT ANALYSIS

3.1 Analysis of the Film Malcolm and Marie

Malcolm and Marie isn’t a love story, but the story of love and how emotions drive actions.

The text that Sam Levinson uses to drive the story is that “Malcolm forgets to thank his

Girlfriend, Marie at the Movie premiere”, but the whole conflict and complications in the

story was SUBTEXT!

According to the character, Marie, it is a tale of a young traumatized woman entrapped in a

relationship with a man who values her only by what he can process and profit from her,

leaving her unable to heal so he can shine, but this same story according to Malcolm, is a tale

about a woman who is so needy, pedantic and needs a “thank you” every time and God-forbid

he forgets to appreciate her, she sees him in a negative light.

Writer-director Sam Levinson drops us inside a moment between two people we rarely see

behind closed doors; the successful older man and the so-called “love” of his life and forces

them to reckon with how they’ve used or misused each other. What may be considered an

offense to some is the impetus of an argument that lasts the entire film: Malcolm forgot to

thank Marie in his speech during the event. While it could be an innocuous omission, it

suggests a general lack of appreciation for the role she’s played in his life. Subtext, the carrier

of the whole conflict in the story, also showing complexities in their human nature.

11
3.2 Background Information of the Actor, John David Washington

John David Washington is an American Actor who was born on July 28, 1984. He is the son

of the acclaimed actor, Denzel Washington. Although born into a family of actors, John David

has worked hard to forge his own path and establish his own unique identity. After playing

professional American football for several years, John David turned his focus to acting,

landing his breakout role in the hit movie Blackkklansman in 2018. His charismatic and

nuanced performance earned him critical acclaim and introduced him as a talent to watch.

Now with several high-profile projects in the works, including a lead role in Christopher

Nolan’s secretive new film Tenet.

Through Talent, hard-work and perseverance, John David Washington has navigated the

challenges of growing up in the spotlight and carved out his own successful Acting career. He

has featured in films such as Malcolm X (1992), Devil in a Blue Dress (1995), The Book of

Eli (2010), Love Beats Rhymes (2017), Blackkklansman (2018), Tenet (2020), Amsterdam,

The Creator, and Malcolm and Marie (2021).

David Washington has also featured on Television such as Ballers (2015-2019). It is also

worthy of note that he also performed The Piano Lesson in St. James theatre in 2022.

3.3 Background information of the actor, Zendaya

Zendaya is one of the biggest and freshest names in Hollywood right now. Getting her start on

the Disney channel, she resonated well with colleagues and audiences across the world which

landed her roles in the industry.

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Zendaya Coleman was born on September 1 st, 1996. This attractive Virgo was drawn to the

world of Acting as soon as she started walking. As a kid, Zendaya played different roles at the

California Shakespeare Theatre in her hometown. She continued acting during high school

and college. She also lent her voice acting skills for the animated TV movie Pixie Hollow

Games in 2011.

She has featured in films such as Spider-man: Homecoming (2013), The Greatest Showman

(2017), Euphoria and Malcolm and Marie.

3.4 TYPES OF SUBTEXT IN ACTING

Subtext can be used in different instances or ways. Each of these types of subtext serves

different purposes.

 Priviledge Subtext: Priviledge subtext builds tension in a story by letting an audience

know crucial information in a story before a character does. In Sam Levinson’s

Malcolm and Marie, the idea of priviledge subtext is not used at all.

 Revelation Subtext: Revelation subtext slowly builds towards an underlying message

at every bit of the story until it is finally revealed. This sort of subtext Is greatly

evident in Malcolm and Marie as the characters were driven to reveal hidden reasons

for their actions throughout the film.

3.5 FEATURES OF SUBTEXT IN ACTING

Subtext is that element that gives power to the audience and also takes the power away from

the audience. In Sam levinson’s Malcolm and Marie, the audience is pulled to listen every

13
step of the way, especially to Zendaya’s character, Marie; and why she is so Masochistic

(deriving pleasure from physical pain or humiliation).

Let us take a look at the Features of Subtext in the film.

 Speech and Line delivery: Words are often the lifeline that the actor holds on to.

Some actors believe that the words are the reality and that each word carries its own

meaning, but fail to understand that it’s the Subtext that makes creates depth and

meaning to the lines.

Subtext in line delivery is seen in the pauses, the inflections, the intentional run-on

lines, the silence, the sighs; all used by Zendaya and David Washington In Sam

Levinson’s Malcolm and Marie.

 Body Movement: “Actors express their creative energy through the movements of

their body and voice” (Goodman 2014:2). In Sam Levinson’s Malcolm and Marie,

subtext is greatly evident in Marie’s body language and movement.

 Expression and Gestures: This feature to a very large extent is a great tool for

Subtext in Acting. At the beginning of the film, all we see that bothers us is Marie’s

facial expressions. It tells a story.

3.6 PURPOSE OF SUBTEXT IN ACTING

The purpose of Subtext is to truthfully tell a story. Subtext reveals the deeper meaning of the

said or the unsaid. A simple line, such as “Get well soon!” may be infused with the subtext of

the character hating the person they are conversing with.

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Subtext draws an audience into a story by providing just enough information that forces them

to connect the dots and arrive at their own conclusions. Subtext can also be used to reveal

information about the story or characters without stating it outright.

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 CHAPTER FOUR

SUMMARY, FINDINGS, RECOMMENDATIONS AND CONCLUSION

4.1 Summary

In this study, I have explored the importance of Subtext in Acting using the American film

Malcolm and Marie as a case study. The performances of the actors were noteworthy, with

John David Washington being a great user of subtext, while Zendaya also employed this

element in every scene. It was notable that Zendaya’s Character also had a lot stock up in her

from the beginning of the first scene till the end of the story.

4.2 Findings

Through my research, I have found out that a story is better told if it is built on Characters’

subtexts. I realized that Subtext is the key to gaining the interest of the audience. Furthermore,

subtext can also not be faked if the actor’s have not done “the Work”.

In the case of Malcolm and Marie, the actors worked throughout their stay before and on-set.

4.3 Recommendations

 Do the work: Actors should go all out to identify the things that make the character

they are playing a full human being. Such as developing inner dialogues, inner

monologues and so on.

 Use the script: Actors should endeavour to make use of the Given circumstances stated

in the script to fuel their imaginations of the life of the human being they are playing.

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4.4 CONCLUSION

The aim of this essay has been to ensure that Actors understand the concept of Acting and

Subtext, screen Acting and Subtext and to show how to engage the audience’s interest through

Subtext and most importantly, how to find subtext in a story, with the reference “Malcolm and

Marie” which contains significant subtext moments. Actors should not be caught playing the

mood of the play as it just programs them to rigid, static and untruthful performances. The

focus is to create a truthful performance; hence there is no way to absolutely do that without a

basic understanding of Subtext in being a character.

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 BIBLIOGRAPHY

PRIMARY SOURCE

Filmography

Malcolm and marie (2021)

Producer: Sam Levinson

Director: Sam Levinson

Writer: Sam Levinson

Language: English

SECONDARY SOURCES

References

Stanislavski, Konstantin. An Actor Prepares. Translated by Elizabeth Reynolds Hpagod,

Routledge, 1989.

Tucker, Patrick. Secrets of Screen Acting. 2nd ed., Rouledge, 2014.

Adler, Stella. The art of Acting. Applause Theatre & Cinema books, 2000.

Strasberg, Lee. A dream of Passion: The Development of the Method. Plume, 1987.

Meisner, Sanford. On Acting. Vintage, 1987.

John, Swaine. the science and art of acting for the Camera,2018.
18
David, Bordwell. Film art: An Introduction, 2003.

Webliography

REFERENCE

https://www.magazine.com/film/sam-levinson-and-zendaya-unpack-everything-

malcolm-marie

www.stagemilk.com

www.wikipedia.com

www.google.com

www.encyclopediaBritannica.com

https://www.youtube.com/viola-davis

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 APPENDIX I

INTERVIEW WITH SAM LEVINSON AND ZENDAYA

February 8, 2021

MALCOLM & MARIE (L-R): ZENDAYA as MARIE, JOHN DAVID WASHINGTON as

MALCOLM. NETFLIX © 2021

Back in July, headlines were made when it was revealed that Zendaya and John David

Washington filmed a movie in the early months of quarantine. Written and directed by

Euphoria creator Sam Levinson, Malcolm & Marie was one of the first major projects to

shoot under lockdown, and for a while, it seemed like the unique circumstances of its

production would drive the conversation around it. But now that people have had a chance to

see the movie, which was released on Netflix last Friday, Levinson’s two-person character

study has sparked debate online about everything from the nature of film criticism to the age

difference of its two leads.

Shot in one location and entirely in black and white, Malcolm & Marie introduces us to its

title characters as they return home from a movie premiere. Malcolm is a writer-director on

the rise, and his new film, about a young drug addict, is about to be released into the world.

The movie is based on Marie’s life, something Malcolm forgot to acknowledge in his thank

you speech. That touches off an argument between the two that makes up the bulk of the film,

and, through his characters, allows Levinson to explore themes of authenticity,

acknowledgment, film criticism, art, ego, and of course, love. Last week, ahead of the film’s

release, Zendaya hopped on a Zoom call with her collaborator to recall the making of the film,

and to unpack some of the reactions to it.

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ZENDAYA: Hey, Sam.

SAM LEVINSON: Hey, Z.

ZENDAYA: I ask you a lot of questions on a daily basis, so a lot of what I’m going to ask

you I already know. But maybe the world should know, too.

LEVINSON: I’m a little nervous now, but sure.

ZENDAYA: I’m going to start with your process. How does your brain work, Sam?

LEVINSON: I love collaboration. If I wasn’t interested in collaboration, I’d write novels.

What I love about writing in general is that I can write a character and I know that an actor is

going to bring their whole life to that character–what they relate to and what they don’t relate

to. And out of that, through all of our discussions, we’re going to find what feels honest and

right and true. Even with Rue [Zendaya’s character in Euphoria], there were a lot of

conversations that you and I had, or thoughts or opinions that you had about the character,

despite not having been an addict. I think Malcolm & Marie, more so than any other piece

I’ve ever worked on, embodied that idea. A lot of the discussions that you and I had about life

over the past two years, about collaboration, about representation, about the film industry,

found their way into this piece. What makes filmmaking an unusual and rare art form is that it

is this collision of identity in the search of universality. On a practical level, we go back and

forth. I’ll rewrite lines, or I’ll be on set, throw a whole scene out, and start from scratch.

ZENDAYA: That’s the fun stuff. When we were literally in the middle of something and it

was like, “This isn’t working.” It was the “only in America hoe-ass shit” part. The way it was

originally written it wasn’t flowing right, remember?

21
LEVINSON: It felt stagy and fake. I love being wrong about something on set. I’ll give you a

note or I’ll give J.D. a note, and it’s just the fucking worst note. Everything takes six steps

backwards. And then I love going up to you after the fact and saying, “Go back to what you

were doing, I think I was wrong about that.” As soon as that happens, everyone knows they

have the right to be wrong, and that’s where the spirit of experimentation comes from.

ZENDAYA: It’s very rare that we’re not on the same page, though.

LEVINSON: Which is good. Because if we had differing opinions on everything, I think we

might be in trouble.

ZENDAYA: The special thing about the way you work with your actors is you have this level

of trust in us, even if we don’t really know if we have it. You’re like, “No, you got it,” which

is that extra confidence you need. You’re also very empathetic. That’s why you’re able to

listen and write the way you do, because you feel things on a very intense level. So when

we’re going through the motions, often you’re going through them, too. If I’m crying, you

have probably cried with me right before I went to go cry about it in the scene.

LEVINSON: Because I have this weird belief that if I’m behind the camera and I feel

something, that somehow you can feel that I’m feeling it, too. So I’ll play out the whole

emotional arc of what I hope to see, in the hopes that somehow energetically you feel it.

Which is totally nuts.

ZENDAYA: It totally works. What is the process of writing a character? How do you take

what’s true to you and then put it in someone else?

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LEVINSON: I’ve always related to and seen myself more in women than I do in men. Why? I

don’t know. That’s, in part, responsible for Euphoria. But at the same time, writing in general

is this act of faith in our commonalities as human beings, so I always try to think of it from

the perspective of whatever truth I feel and I put into a character, I hope that other people can

feel it or see themselves in it. I also see identity and gender and orientation from a slightly

more philosophical standpoint. What I mean by that is I think Malcolm, in some ways, is a

stereotypical female character and I wrote him that way. He has these extreme emotional

swings and needs to be needed, I think, more than Marie does. And those are attributes that,

whether right or wrong, you would normally ascribe to female characters. And at the same

time, Marie is a very male character in some ways. There’s a stoicism, a withholding nature to

her that you would normally associate with a male character. And only as the film unfolds do

you see the emotionality within. I think that’s what makes the characters unusual and exciting.

So I try to find those emotional links, between myself, between the actor, between the

character and build it in that way. And I also have a lot of faith in your ability to bring your

perspective to it, or J.D.’s ability to bring his perspective. There’s always that thing when

you’re writing and you imagine what it’s going to feel and look like on the screen. And I

always love that moment in a table read or on set, where suddenly you go, “This is way better

than I ever imagined it.” And that’s only possible because of the actors.

ZENDAYA: We talked about that often, too, especially when it came to John David. When

you first called him and you had very few pages, you called me back after talking to him and I

was like, “What did he say?” You were like, “He was asking these amazing questions. He was

asking about had they ever thought about marriage?” I was like, “Damn, I didn’t even think

about that.”

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LEVINSON: “How long have they been together? Did they have a family?”

ZENDAYA: Right. Or even things that were so specific that I never would have even thought

to think about yet. And I honestly think you hadn’t thought about at all either, because I

remember you being like, “I didn’t have a fucking answer yet because I’m not that far in

writing it.” I remember then we had this whole conversation about codependency and does

she need him and is she relying on him? Does she have her own money? Does she have her

own life? He brought that to it. And then also I think the humor. I remember when we did

early readings, he just found such a comedy to it. We always thought the movie was funny,

and I believe, in a strange way, that this movie is a comedy.

LEVINSON: I totally agree with you.

ZENDAYA: His physicality, even on set with the mac and cheese stuff, I remember just

dying with you on the side watching him do that stuff. It was hilarious. Or you yelling out

lines and him making stuff up. He was just freestyling.

LEVINSON: Most of the dailies of Euphoria are just me yelling out lines off-camera and then

seeing what happens. I think that’s the fun of it. You want life and the unpredictability of

things to seep in because that’s what makes something feel alive. You throw out a line and

then an actor runs with that idea and three other lines come out that are just a hilarious train of

thought. That’s the fun shit.

ZENDAYA: We’re honest with each other and I think that is crucial. If there’s something you

write and I don’t buy it, I’ll tell you, “Sam, I’m not feeling it.” In the same way that if I’m not

24
giving a performance that feels honest or you can tell that I’m overthinking that I’m in my

head, you’re very quick to be like, “What’s going on here?” And speaking of honesty, I have

to bring up the criticism criticism, and people assuming that it’s a little bit biographical in the

sense that maybe this is exactly what happened to you with Assassination Nation or

something like that. But I know for a fact that you didn’t get a review this good.

LEVINSON: That’s the whole irony to that interpretation, because Malcolm doesn’t get a

negative review, he gets a fucking fantastic review. But it’s not the right kind of praise in his

mind so it completely unmoors him as a character until he’s screaming at the trees about

identity. The scene is about his insecurities as a filmmaker and how crazy he can get when

he’s just in his own world. And I think to further compound it, Marie agrees with the film

critic’s criticism and even takes it a step further by saying, “Well her problem with you as a

filmmaker is my problem with you as a human being.” Which I think gets at the larger theme

of what the film is about, which is learning to listen to critique and grow from it, not just as an

artist, but more importantly as a human being. But it is fascinating that certain people’s

interpretation of the film completely negates Marie’s counterpoint, which I would argue is the

emotional core of the film. And I think in some ways, they’re essentially mirroring Malcolm’s

dismissal and refusal to listen to Marie and acknowledge her validity. And that’s kind of

bizarre and ironic and terrifying and interesting and what makes film in general interesting.

ZENDAYA: It is. There are some things he says that are valid but it’s about how he goes

about doing it.

LEVINSON: He goes too far.

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ZENDAYA: Which is the point. If he doesn’t take it too far, she can’t later say, “That’s my

problem with you, is you just take shit too far. You don’t know when to stop. You don’t when

something is good, you don’t know how to listen. You don’t know how to take criticism.”

She’s like, “I’m sitting here and I’m telling you these things,” and I always looked at that as a

peek into their relationship. Like okay, how many times has he gone on a rant like this and

just hammered a point home and screamed at the trees? How many times has he done this

when they were shooting? And it lets you in a little bit on how they coexist and gives you

further insight into that.

LEVINSON: But that’s also the film critic’s one criticism of his film, is that he took one

scene a little too far. Which is what Marie completely agrees with. She even says, “It was my

favorite scene in the script. But not in the movie.” It serves as the jumping off point for what

is essentially her 20 minute breakdown of Malcolm’s issues.

ZENDAYA: His narcissism.

LEVINSON: Yeah, narcissism and issues as an artist and a human being.

ZENDAYA: That’s his issue. He thinks he’s beyond criticism. That he’s above being able to

be wrong.

LEVINSON: Right. And the line about, if you steamroll everyone in your midst, you’re going

to end up creating a fictional reality where you’re completely insulated from any critique.

ZENDAYA: Any perspective that isn’t your own.

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LEVINSON: It’s that whole thing about don’t believe the hype or else you’re going to make

fake movies about fake people and fake things, because you’re not going to know what it’s

like to live life because you’re never going to hear a perspective other than your own.

ZENDAYA: It’s interesting to watch how things reflect and mirror the movie in that way.

What’s been really interesting is everybody who watches it leaves with a different takeaway

that maybe we didn’t see. A special thing about this film is that there is no real resolution.

What is the reasoning behind that? What do you want people to leave with? Is there a clear

winner? Who’s side are we on? Should they be together, should they not be together? How do

you view that?

LEVINSON: Who wins? I think Marie wins. Who’s right? I think Marie’s right. I think that’s

evident in the final scene and that 20-minute monologue. It essentially grounds the entire

movie in her perspective. But I think at the same time, the film is this Socratic dialogue

between these two characters—about relationships, about filmmaking, about art, about

partnership, about acknowledgement. And my hope is that people leave with whatever

interpretation makes sense to their life. Whatever they see in the relationship that they want to

take away from it, they will. Is the relationship healthy or toxic? I have no idea. I go back and

forth on it.

ZENDAYA: I will go on record and say that I have never seen you and Ashley [Lent

Levinson, Sam’s wife and co-producer] so much as even have a disagreement. You guys just

work so well together. She is the conflict-solving queen. If there’s an issue, she’s like, “No

problem. We’re going to sort it out.”

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LEVINSON: But what’s weird about right now in terms of how we look at and view film and

television and characters is that people go, “Is writing a character an endorsement of their

actions?” Which is so strange because no, I’m not endorsing the characters who I think do

things right and I’m not endorsing the characters who I think do things in a wrong way. They

are who they are. They’re characters. Everyone else can decide what’s right or wrong for

them. But there is this weird thing of, “Is this you? Is this not you? Is this the actor? Who is

it?” There’s this desire to trace the roots of everything.

ZENDAYA: Or that there’s a message.

LEVINSON: Or that there’s a message. I think that’s just the nature of right now, where

everything feels like it has a message in it that’s concrete, that people can walk away with and

go, okay, this is exactly—

ZENDAYA: How I feel, yeah.

LEVINSON: Yeah. It’s political ideology or philosophical ideology. Whereas I think the

message of this film is simply that you need to acknowledge the people in your life who help

create the life that you’re able to flourish within. Whether it’s inside or outside the industry,

that it’s one of gratitude. And it’s also what happens when you take for granted people’s love

and contribution. That’s it.

ZENDAYA: Yeah. Make sure you tell people thank you.

LEVINSON: Yeah. That’s the only message.

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Appendix II

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