April 1 2008

Top of Form 1
Date: 04/01/2008
Session: Regular
968
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 April 1, 2008
11 1:34 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR THOMAS P. MORAHAN, Acting President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 And I ask everyone present to
5 please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
10 invocation today will be given by the Reverend
11 Teddy R. Herron, pastor, Glen Baptist Church,
12 Watkins Glen.
13 Pastor.
14 REVEREND HERRON: Shall we pray.
15 Father, I thank You for these men
16 and women who give of their time and talent to
17 benefit the citizenry of our state. I pray
18 that You might give them wisdom, I pray that
19 You might give them safety.
20 Father, unite them. We know these
21 are stressful times. We know that they're
22 tired, and events are unfolding that are
23 unusual. Father, we pray for Your grace to be
24 upon them. We pray for discernment and
25 discretion.
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1 Father, we thank You again for the
2 privilege we have of beginning this session in
3 prayer, with Your watchful care. Father, I
4 thank You that You are a friend that sticks
5 closer than a brother.
6 Encourage these men and women to do
7 that which is right, and let them give an
8 account before You, having done their best.
9 We ask these things in the precious
10 name of my precious savior, Jesus Christ.
11 Amen.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank
13 you, Reverend.
14 Reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Monday, March 31, the Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 30,
18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
19 adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
21 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
22 as read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
24 Messages from the Assembly.
25 Messages from the Governor.

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1 Reports of standing committees.

2 Reports of select committees.
3 Communications and reports from
4 state officers.
5 Motions and resolutions.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
8 believe there are two substitutions at the
9 desk, if we could make them at this time.
11 Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: On page 37,
13 Senator Golden moves to discharge, from the
14 Committee on Cities, Assembly Bill Number
15 10105 and substitute it for the identical
16 Senate Bill Number 6957, Third Reading
17 Calendar 625.
18 And on page 38, Senator Padavan
19 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
20 Codes, Assembly Bill Number 6011D and
21 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
22 Number 4209B, Third Reading Calendar 642.
24 Substitutions ordered.
25 Senator Skelos.

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1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 if we could adopt the Resolution Calendar at
3 this time.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All in

5 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar
6 signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
9 Opposed say nay.
10 (No response.)
12 Resolution Calendar is adopted.
13 Senator Skelos.
15 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
16 of the calendar.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 524, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
21 6952, an act to amend the Highway Law, in
22 relation to designating a portion of State
23 Route 174.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read
25 the last section.

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1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain your vote.

8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes,
9 Mr. President, I vote aye. And I thank all
10 the members of the Senate for unanimously
11 passing this bill.
12 Father Joseph Champlin died in
13 January of 2008. In Central New York he was
14 truly a giant, a truly holy man who did
15 everything he could for everybody other than
16 himself.
17 He started a society called the
18 Guardian Angel Society to help inner city kids
19 to obtain a Catholic education at Catholic
20 schools, and that still lives on after his
21 death. He's written over fifty books, Father
22 Champlin had, and other millions of pages of
23 materials that he produced, and all of them
24 always had an inspirational message.
25 I've attended many wedding

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1 ceremonies for family members that Father
2 Champlin presided over, and he truly was a
3 holy man. You could -- he just inspired
4 everybody that he was near at all times.
5 He also had these radio spots --
6 all I could think of is like Bishop Fulton J.
7 Sheen when I was growing up. And his line
8 was, Father Champlin, was: "You may have
9 tried everything else, why not try God." And
10 he meant what he said.

11 And this is just a small tribute to
12 him and to all the people he was able to touch
13 and help, by passing this bill to name a
14 portion of the highway in my community in his
15 honor.
16 So again, thank all of you for
17 unanimously passing this important bill in
18 honor of a great man.
20 Senator DeFrancisco, thank you. You will be
21 recorded as voting in the affirmative.
22 The Secretary will announce the
23 results.
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. Nays,
25 0.

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2 bill is passed.
4 551, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4806,
5 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
6 inciting to riot.
8 the last section.
10 act shall take effect on the first of
11 November.
13 the roll.
16 Announce the results.
18 2. Senators Duane and Perkins recorded in the
19 negative.
21 bill is passed.
23 568, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5194A, an
24 act to amend the General Business Law, in
25 relation to safe transfer.

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2 the last section.
4 act shall take effect on the earliest of
5 either the 30th day after regulations or when
6 it shall have become law.
8 the roll.
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43.
14 bill is passed.
16 569, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5919,

17 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets
18 Law, in relation to certain claims.
24 the roll.

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5 bill is passed.
7 570, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5920, an
8 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
9 in relation to licensing of establishments.
15 the roll.

20 1. Senator Sampson recorded in the negative.
22 bill is passed.
24 596, by Senator Young, Senate Print 5995A, an
25 act to authorize the conveyance of certain

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1 state lands.
3 the last section.
7 the roll.
13 bill is passed.
15 598, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7115, an
16 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
17 relation to allowing certain special assessing
18 units.

24 the roll.

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5 bill is passed.
7 599, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7116, an
8 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
9 relation to adjusted base proportions.
13 act shall effect immediately.
15 the roll.
21 bill is passed.
23 613, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2071, an
24 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
25 annuity contracts.
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2 the last section.
4 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
6 the roll.
12 bill is passed.
14 618, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2827, an
15 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
16 in relation to promotion and marketing.
22 the roll.

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3 bill is passed.
6 6466, an act to amend the Agriculture and
7 Markets Law, in relation to prohibition of
8 animal fighting.
9 SENATOR DIAZ: Lay it aside.
11 bill is laid aside.
13 625, substituted earlier today by Member of
14 the Assembly Rosenthal, Assembly Print Number
15 10105, an act to permit the City Center of
16 Music and Drama, Inc.
22 the roll.

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3 bill is passed.

5 627, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 99,
6 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
7 the crime of aggravated harassment.
9 the last section.
12 November.
14 the roll.
19 2. Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in
20 the negative.
22 bill is passed.
24 630, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 278, an
25 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

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1 establishing.
3 the last section.
6 November.

8 the roll.
14 bill is passed.
17 2739, an act to amend the Penal Law, in
18 relation to establishing.
23 November.
25 the roll.

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6 bill is passed.
8 639, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3877, an
9 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
10 refusing.
15 November.
17 the roll.
21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
22 the negative on Calendar Number 639 are
23 Senators Duane, Montgomery, Perkins and
24 Schneiderman.
25 Ayes, 49. Nays, 4.

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2 bill is passed.
4 642, substituted earlier today by Member of
5 the Assembly Pretlow, Assembly Print Number
6 6011D, an act to amend the Penal Law, in
7 relation to assaults.
9 the last section.
11 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
13 the roll.
16 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to explain your
17 vote.
18 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
19 you, Mr. President, yes.
20 This is a bill that has been long
21 in coming. I want to thank Senator Padavan
22 for bringing this bill forward.
23 There's a young city enforcement
24 officer who had come to me about a year or so
25 ago, concerned about his safety and that of

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1 others like him, and he said that he had been
2 trying to get this bill passed for quite a
3 while and had not been successful. And he
4 said that he was going to retire early because
5 he didn't feel that even though the job was a
6 good job and he liked it, and he enjoyed
7 working for the people of the City of
8 Mt. Vernon, he did not feel that anybody cared
9 about his safety.
10 And so he was the one who had
11 brought this to the attention of Assemblyman
12 Pretlow some time ago, and he thought that
13 somehow the people of New York State had begun
14 to forget about little people and working
15 people.
16 So, Senator Padavan, I want to

17 thank you for putting this bill forward.
18 And I encourage and appreciate the
19 support of my colleagues to get this passed on
20 behalf of Donald, who is somebody who really
21 does care about the job that he does, and he
22 does it with dignity and respect.
23 And I thank you.
25 you, Senator.

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3 0.
5 bill is passed.
7 656, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print 3153,
8 an act to amend the Family Court Act and the
9 Social Services Law, in relation to removing
10 special powers.
16 the roll.

22 bill is passed.
23 Senator Skelos, that completes the
24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,

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1 Mr. President. If we could go to the
2 controversial reading.
4 Secretary will ring the bells.
5 The Secretary will read.
8 6466, an act to amend the Agriculture and
9 Markets Law.
10 SENATOR DIAZ: Explanation.
12 Senator Diaz, are you asking for an
13 explanation?
14 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, sir.
16 Senator DeFrancisco, an explanation has been
17 requested.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
19 Existing law makes it a Class A
20 misdemeanor for someone, as a spectator,
21 having placed an admission fee or having
22 wagered on an animal fight in an exhibition.

23 That was a Class A misdemeanor.
24 What this bill does, it takes out
25 the requirement that the person to be charged

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1 with this crime had to pay an admission fee
2 or, on the other hand, had to wager.
3 So if you're a spectator at an
4 exhibition of animal fighting or animals and
5 fighting in a planned exhibition, you can be
6 charged with a Class A misdemeanor.
7 Assemblyman Kavanagh has the bill
8 in the Assembly, and it just was reported from
9 the Assembly Agricultural Committee to the
10 Codes Committee.
12 you, Senator.
13 Senator Diaz.
14 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President,
15 will the sponsor yield for a question or two,
16 please?
18 Senator DeFrancisco, will you yield?
21 Senator DeFrancisco yields.
22 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator
23 DeFrancisco, have you ever been in Puerto Rico
24 or any country in Latin America?
25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I have been

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1 to Puerto Rico. Yes, I have.
2 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you --
4 Senator DeFrancisco, will you continue to
5 yield?
7 SENATOR DIAZ: While you were in
8 Puerto Rico, did you ever learn or anybody
9 told you about the culture in Puerto Rico?
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, in
11 general terms, I saw some of the culture in
12 Puerto Rico. I didn't need an explanation.
13 SENATOR DIAZ: Will you --
15 Senator Diaz, you wish him to continue to
16 yield?
17 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes,
18 Mr. President, will the sponsor yield?
20 Senator DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
23 Senator DeFrancisco yields.
25 DeFrancisco, I'm Puerto Rican, born and raised

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1 in Puerto Rico. And in my country there are

2 two major cultural sports, horse racing and
3 cockfighting. And to us, that is part of our
4 culture and part of our life.
5 Now, here in New York, sometimes we
6 do Puerto Rican tradition and we do shows of
7 Puerto Rican culture. So that means that
8 you -- if in one of those exhibitions that we
9 are trying to show our culture, they have the
10 cockfighting and some people are there
11 watching, they could get arrested and subject
12 to a fine, a misdemeanor?
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator, I
14 thought, rather than Puerto Rican, you were a
15 member of the New York State Senate. And
16 we're here making laws for the New York State
17 Senate and for the State of New York.
18 And so whatever the cultural
19 background is for whomever is here from
20 whatever other country, they're bound by the
21 laws of the State of New York.
22 And I believe that animal fighting
23 should not be conducted and people, whether
24 they're wagering or paying admission, by their
25 mere presence in being a spectator at an

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1 exhibition are encouraging this kind of
2 activity. And in my judgment -- maybe not
3 yours -- but in my judgment, I don't think
4 that should be permitted in the State of

5 New York.
6 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President,
7 through you, will the sponsor continue to
8 yield?
11 yield?
14 Senator yields.
16 DeFrancisco, yes, I am a member of the Senate.
17 And I am Puerto Rican.
18 I would not question any one of my
19 fellow members here who happens to be a Jew,
20 who happens to be African-American, who
21 happens to be whatever. When those things
22 that we do in the State of New York affect or
23 might affect one of their cultures, we don't
24 question. We don't tell them, "You are part
25 of the State Senate."

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1 Yes, I'm a member of the State
2 Senate, but I'm a Puerto Rican first. And as
3 a Puerto Rican, I'm telling you that we have
4 thousands and thousands and thousands if not
5 millions of Puerto Ricans here, and Hispanic
6 people, here in New York State. And as a
7 Hispanic, as Puerto Rican, I have to watch --

8 even though I'm a member of the Senate, I have
9 to watch that those people are protected too,
10 and to tell them that if they are watching one
11 of those cockfights in a traditional cultural
12 thing, they might be arrested and charged as a
13 misdemeanor.
14 It is wrong. Even though, even
15 though animal fighting would be wrong, but it
16 is wrong to take people and to charge people
17 with a misdemeanor and make people criminals,
18 make people criminals and ruin people's
19 records just because they are watching a
20 cultural affair or something, they are
21 watching a show of a culture in another
22 country.
23 I would not do that to any other
24 country here, because there are things in this
25 state for other people's countries that I

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1 don't -- that I don't appreciate. And they
2 might be wrong.
3 But that's what I want to say.
4 And, Mr. President, I think that this is
5 wrong, even though we have to try to protect
6 animals, but to tell people, to tell people
7 that if you are watching --
9 Senator Diaz, is there a question?
10 SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill.

11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the
12 bill. Thank you, sir.
13 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, I
14 understand that we have to protect animals and
15 whatever. But to tell people, to make people
16 criminals and to ruin people's records -- not
17 only Hispanics, any other tourist might be
18 watching one of those traditional cultural
19 affairs that we do throughout the years. And
20 to tell them that you are going to be arrested
21 and you're going to be charged with a
22 misdemeanor because you are watching how
23 cultural -- how people in other countries act,
24 that is wrong. I think that is unfair. And I
25 think that this bill should be voted down.

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1 So thank you, Mr. President.
3 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the
4 negative.
5 Senator Padavan.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 The bill that Senator DeFrancisco
9 is amending the law was one that I adopted a
10 number of years ago. And I applaud him for
11 doing it, because it is an improvement on what
12 we already have.
13 The fact remains, Senator Diaz,

14 animal fighting in the State of New York --
15 and indeed, as far as I know, most states, if
16 not all the states in this country -- is
17 illegal. And it is illegal for many reasons.
18 Whether it's dogs, whether it's birds, or
19 whatever the case may be.
20 What a message it sends to our
21 society that we find pleasure in seeing
22 animals -- I haven't finished, Senator. I'll
23 yield when I get down. So sit down and kind
24 of relax.

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1 Senator Diaz -- Senator Diaz, Senator Padavan
2 does not yield at this time.
3 SENATOR DIAZ: Please,
4 Mr. President, please --
6 Senator Padavan has the floor.
7 SENATOR DIAZ: I think he's out
8 of order. You have to tell me to sit down,
9 not him. You have to tell me to sit down.
10 He's out of order.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Okay,
12 sit down.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR DIAZ: Okay, thank you,
15 sir.
16 (Laughter.)
18 Senator Padavan, will you continue.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you.
20 I was starting to say that in my
21 view it's a terrible message to give our young
22 people -- society in general -- that it's fun,
23 that it's sport, that it's something that is
24 desirable to watch animals kill each other.
25 And that's basically what cockfighting is all

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1 about, watching those birds get in that arena
2 and kill each other.
3 We all have cultures. And if you
4 want to go far back in my culture as an
5 Italian, we had events in the Coliseum where
6 we put people down there to kill each other.
7 If your ancestry was in jolly old England,
8 they had events where men with broadswords and
9 lances would try and kill each other, and
10 people stood in the stands and applauded and
11 cheered.
12 But we have evolved as a society,
13 hopefully for the better, and we view these
14 things with a completely different point of
15 view.
16 And so again, Senator DeFrancisco,
17 I applaud you on your bill, I'm happy to vote
18 for it, and now I'll yield to any question
19 that Senator Diaz has.

20 SENATOR DIAZ: Will Senator
21 Padavan yield for a question, Mr. President?
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: He
24 yields.
25 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Padavan,

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1 immigrants in the State of New York and the
2 nation, it's illegal, right? Are you telling
3 me right now in front of the camera and in
4 front of everybody that we should deport all
5 of them?
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: That we should
7 what?
8 SENATOR DIAZ: Deport all of
9 them.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Deport them?
11 SENATOR DIAZ: Yeah. Because
12 it's illegal to be -- it's illegal to be here
13 without documents.
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Illegal
15 immigrants?
16 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Under many
18 circumstances, yes. But I don't understand
19 the relevance to these animals that are
20 fighting in a pen.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: You said that
22 animal fighting is illegal in this state.

23 SENATOR PADAVAN: It is.
25 Senators, please direct your answers and

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1 questions through the chair.
2 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you,
3 Mr. President, will the Senator yield for a
4 question?
6 Senator, will you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: If it's on the
8 bill, I'll be happy to.
9 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, I'm going to
10 make some comparisons here.
11 You yourself said, Senator, that
12 the bill is okay because animal fighting in
13 this state is illegal.
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I said more
15 than that, Senator, if you listened to me.
16 SENATOR DIAZ: Excuse me, I'm
17 asking the question.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: I said it's
19 illegal, and the reason it's illegal --
21 Gentleman. Gentlemen, please.
22 SENATOR DIAZ: He's
23 interrupting --
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Let me
25 just ask you this both, please.

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1 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm asking the
2 question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: When
4 you ask the question, let us know when the
5 question is over, okay, so he knows when to
6 respond.
7 (Laughter.)
8 SENATOR DIAZ: All right. Okay.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: And,
10 Senator, I wish you'd wait until he's
11 finished.
12 Thank you.
13 SENATOR DIAZ: Okay. So, Senator
14 Padavan, you said that animal fighting in this
15 state is illegal. Therefore, the bill is
16 okay.
17 I'm asking you that it's also
18 illegal to be in this state without documents.
19 Would you tell me now that, because it is also
20 illegal, we should send all of them back to
21 their country?
23 There's the question.
24 SENATOR DIAZ: That's the
25 question.

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1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr.

2 President --
3 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes or no.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Don't say "yes
5 or no." I'll answer the question any way I
6 wish.
7 The fact remains that I don't find
8 any relevance whatsoever, as far as your
9 question is concerned, to the bill before us.
10 This activity that we're dealing
11 with is both inhumane, it's unseemly, it's a
12 wrong message, it tells an awful, terrible
13 thing about where society is in certain
14 categories. And it's against the law in the
15 State of New York, if not in this entire
16 nation.
17 And therefore, this bill, which
18 provides penalties for those who participate
19 even as spectators, makes a great deal of
20 sense.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes,
23 Senator Diaz.
24 SENATOR DIAZ: I am so sad and so
25 sorry that Senator Padavan, a lawyer -- you're

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1 a lawyer; right?
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, I'm not.
3 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator --
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: We

5 don't need any animal fighting up here.
6 (Laughter.)
7 SENATOR DIAZ: I am so sad, so
8 disappointed that Senator Padavan, a New York
9 State Senator for so many years, knows that
10 animal fighting is illegal, therefore the bill
11 is okay, and he doesn't see the comparison of
12 if this is illegal, also immigrants that have
13 no papers are illegal and must leave.
14 If he -- because it's illegal to be
15 here, if we -- we could send all of them back,
16 yes or no. And he -- he refuses to answer
17 that simple academic and kindergarten
18 question.
19 Thank you, sir.
21 you, Senator.
22 Any other Senator wish to be heard?
23 Senator Montgomery.
24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes,
25 Mr. President, thank you.

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1 I just would like to make a note
2 here, it's my understanding in reading this
3 legislation that while we are debating whether
4 or not we agree or whether or not it is legal
5 to have animal fights, the bill actually just
6 talks about those people who are happen to be
7 in attendance at a fight and what happens to

8 them.
9 And it says here that what Senator
10 DeFrancisco is doing is changing the law so
11 that rather than stipulating that people will
12 be attending, having paid an admission fee or
13 having made a wager, in those cases they would
14 be guilty -- he is removing that language.
15 And he says simply by being there,
16 whether or not you knew that it was going to
17 be happening or you know that it's illegal or
18 whatever, you will be liable for a $1,000
19 fine, charged with a misdemeanor, you will be
20 able guilty automatically of a misdemeanor
21 punishable by incarceration of up to one year
22 and/or a fine of up to $1,000.
23 So I just wanted to clarify that,
24 that that's exactly what this language does,
25 and that's why I will be voting no on this

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1 bill.
2 Thank you.
4 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the
5 negative, and thank you for the clarification.
6 Senator Schneiderman.
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
8 Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield for
9 some questions.

11 Senator DeFrancisco, will you yield for a
12 question?
15 Senator.
16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The
17 operative provision of this bill states that
18 the knowing presence as a spectator at any
19 place where an exhibition of animal fighting
20 is being conducted shall be guilty of a
21 misdemeanor.
22 Is there any requirement in this
23 bill that it is a live animal fight? It says
24 an exhibition of animal fighting. What
25 prevents someone from -- some over-aggressive

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1 prosecutor from pursuing someone who's
2 watching animal fighting on video? That is
3 indeed an exhibition of animal fighting.
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well,
5 Senator, thanks, and I thank Senator
6 Montgomery as well for her explanation of the
7 bill.
8 It's exactly what I said from the
9 outset. What I said from the outset is it's
10 removing the requirement that you have to
11 wager or you have to pay admission to be
12 prosecuted under this bill.
13 The bill talks about animal

14 fighting, and this law has been in existence
15 for many, many years and it has always applied
16 to live animal fighting.
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
18 you, Mr. President, has there ever been any
19 incident in this or any other state in which
20 there has been a prosecution of animal
21 fighting displayed on video? For example, the
22 State of Virginia I will call to your
23 attention.

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1 yield?
3 I don't know the answer to that
4 question. I put this bill in because I
5 think's it's inhumane for people to watch
6 animal fighting, whether you pay or whether
7 you wager or anything else. They don't have a
8 choice whether they're killing each other.
9 Others may. Humans may have that choice.
10 So my point is that maybe you have
11 a good point. Maybe I should expand the bill
12 to include video animal fighting as well. But
13 right now we're talking about live animal
14 fighting.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
16 Mr. President. Through you, if the sponsor

17 will continue to yield.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Sure.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I want to
20 stipulate that I'm absolutely opposed to
21 animal fighting. I'm opposed to the abuse of
22 animals. Indeed, I'm a vegetarian. There's
23 no one more opposed to abuse of animals in
24 this house than I, except perhaps Senator
25 Serrano, who thinks, you know, you shouldn't

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1 squash flies.
2 (Laughter.)
3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But having
4 stipulated that I believe anyone who sponsors
5 or wagers on animal fighting should be
6 punished, Senator, I think, I hope you
7 recognize that this bill creates a misdemeanor
8 for someone who is present -- not even at an
9 exhibition, at any place where an exhibition
10 of animal fighting is being conducted.
11 So I believe, from my
12 interpretation of this bill -- please correct
13 me if I'm wrong -- is that if I'm in a bar and
14 there is animal fighting is going on in the
15 back, I am in a place where an exhibition is
16 being conducted and I'm guilty of an
17 misdemeanor. Is that not true?
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator,
19 the volume of your voice doesn't add to the

20 clarity of the question.
21 All I wanted to suggest to you --
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: It doesn't
23 diminish from it either, Senator.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- is it is
25 the clear understanding of this bill, as the

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1 law has been in effect forever, that we're
2 talking about somebody watching an animal
3 fight -- I believe whether you wager, whether
4 you pay to watch it, or whether you just are
5 there watching it, it encourages these types
6 of exhibitions. And that's the clear
7 understanding of the bill.
8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
9 So, Mr. President, through you,
10 there is no requirement in this bill, is
11 there, that someone actually be watching? It
12 states very explicitly "presence at a place
13 where an exhibition is being conducted."
14 If you can point me to where it
15 says you have to be watching, enjoying,
16 looking at, or participating in any way,
17 please point it to us right now.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It doesn't
19 say "watching," it says "present at a place
20 where an exhibition is going on."
21 I would think any rational human
22 being would understand that the logic behind

23 the bill is to not encourage these fights, and
24 those people who are participating by
25 spectating are encouraging those types of

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1 fights.
3 Through you, Mr. President.
5 Senator DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is the
8 knowing presence -- is someone's knowing
9 presence at any place where prostitution is
10 taking place a misdemeanor?
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are we
12 talking government officials or --
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: You know,
15 we haven't had a public confession for a
16 while. If you want to go ahead, John, I'm
17 here.
18 (Laughter.)
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, I want
20 to clarify the question.
22 Gentlemen, stay on the subject.
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't
24 know if there's some offense under the various
25 criminal statutes dealing with sexual

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1 misconduct, whether being present in the
2 brothel might -- I don't know, I don't think
3 it would fit in any of those statutes.
5 Through you, Mr. President, is the
6 knowing presence of a person --
8 Senator, do you continue to yield?
11 knowing presence of a person at a crackhouse a
12 misdemeanor?
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't
14 believe it is. But it's food for thought as
15 far as other legislation.
17 knowing presence of a person at a speakeasy or
18 an after-hours club --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Let's
20 get some order in the house, please.
21 Senator DeFrancisco, do you
22 continue to yield?
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are there
24 still speakeasies? Are there still
25 speakeasies, Mr. President?

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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: There are

2 indeed after-hours clubs where liquor is sold
3 illegally.
4 Is the knowing presence of a person
5 at a place where liquor is being illegally
6 sold a misdemeanor?
7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, it's
8 not.
9 And being present at a Senate
10 debate is not an A misdemeanor either.
11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
12 thank goodness for that.
13 Thank you. Mr. President, on the
14 bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the
16 bill, Senator Schneiderman.
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think
18 what we have here is something that, while
19 well-intended, goes far beyond what any
20 reasonable person in the Senate would want to
21 place in the law.
22 I am absolutely opposed to animal
23 fighting. Anyone who sponsors animal
24 fighting, anyone who organizes gambling around
25 animal fighting should be prosecuted. But

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1 what this bill does is it essentially
2 criminalizes conduct by people who may be
3 innocent observers and criminalizes conduct by
4 people who fit into a certain cultural milieu.

5 I disagree with Senator Diaz on
6 many things, but I do not disagree with the
7 fact that there is a move towards
8 criminalization of social conduct that may
9 involve wearing certain kinds of clothes that
10 are typical of certain neighborhoods and
11 communities in our state, or the
12 criminalization of drugs in a way so that the
13 possession of same amount of crack cocaine
14 subjects one to a far more serious sentence
15 than the possession of the exact same amount
16 of powered cocaine.
17 This bill is drafted in a way that
18 is so broad that it threatens to sweep into
19 its net thousands of New Yorkers who are doing
20 nothing more than being present at a place --
21 not even present at the exhibition, present at
22 a place where the exhibition is taking place.
23 If it said "if you are knowingly
24 present and watching an exhibition," that
25 would be one thing. But it doesn't say that.

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1 It says if you are present at any place where
2 an exhibition of animal fighting is being
3 conducted, you're guilty of a misdemeanor.
4 This is far too broad, ladies and
5 gentlemen. I think it's far too broad. And I
6 think there's, frankly, a constitutional issue
7 here, because the place where an exhibition of

8 animal fighting is being conducted could, I
9 suppose, refer to any large building where
10 animal fighting is being conducted if it's one
11 facility.
12 This is far too broad for us. This
13 criminalizes conduct that should not be
14 criminalized of people who just may be passing
15 through, may be going to pick up something
16 from someone who is present in another part of
17 the building.
18 But I would also urge you to
19 consider the cultural suggestion here.
20 Senator Diaz raises an interesting point. We
21 have a major civil rights issue in this
22 country, and that's the fact that we have 14
23 or 15 million people, undocumented immigrants
24 here. They are not leaving. They are not
25 leaving if we're mean to them or if we make it

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1 difficult for them to live.
2 We should distinguish between the
3 issue of controlling our borders, which we
4 have to do, and the issue of what to do with
5 these 14 or 15 million people who are here
6 cooking our food, mowing our lawns, taking
7 care of our children.
8 Any time one of them is found
9 guilty of a misdemeanor, they face
10 deportation. This could make anyone from the

11 communities where this horrible sport takes
12 place, or who's a relative of or a friend of
13 someone who is interested in this horrible
14 sport, subject to deportation.
15 It's much more than an A
16 misdemeanor. And it's much more than
17 something that punishes those who are actually
18 active participants in the horrible sport of
19 animal fighting.
20 This bill should be withdrawn,
21 Mr. President. I urge everyone here to vote
22 no. If you believe in civil liberties, if you
23 believe in equal rights, and if you believe
24 that like conduct should be treated alike,
25 vote no.

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1 Thank you, Mr. President.
3 you, Senator.
4 Senator Connor.
5 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 You know, I just heard a debate
8 between two distinguished lawyers, and I think
9 they weren't coming down in the right place.
10 "Knowing presence." To lawyers,
11 that means that an element of the crime is
12 something we call scienter. And the
13 prosecutor must prove scienter beyond a

14 reasonable doubt as an element of the crime.
15 And scienter means that you knew when you went
16 there that you were going to see a cockfight.
17 If you just wandered in there because you
18 thought it was a fruit market or something and
19 there was a cockfight, there's no scienter and
20 you can't be convicted.
21 And I will say this, Mr. President.
22 I can't cite the law, but I have a
23 recollection of bills we passed, and I think
24 they became law. I believe the knowing
25 presence of person at a sexual performance by

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1 a minor is a crime. Does that sound right?
2 That's the law. So there are areas where just
3 the knowing presence at something, at a
4 performance that's a particularly heinous or
5 offensive to our moral values, is a crime.
6 And I'm supporting this bill
7 because -- and look, I know cultural
8 differences. And I've been to Puerto Rico.
9 In Isla Verde there's a -- I forget what you
10 call it in Spanish, there's an arena for
11 cockfights. I've walked by it many times.
12 The restaurant is near there.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR CONNOR: There's a casino
15 across the street too. But I haven't been in
16 it. I haven't been in it.

17 But the fact is that in all 50
18 states, animal fights are illegal. And
19 recently a newspaper of record, in commenting
20 about an incident involving a professional
21 athlete at a cockfight in the Dominican
22 Republic, said nowhere in the U.S. is it
23 permitted. Well, under the U.S. flag it is
24 permitted. It's legal in Puerto Rico. And I
25 respect the culture there.

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1 You know, I also represent
2 Chinatown, in Manhattan. A lot of
3 Asian-Americans. For my birthday a few weeks
4 ago, my wife gave me something, a book she
5 thought I would enjoy. It's a collection of
6 food articles over the years that appeared in
7 The New Yorker. I forget the title of the
8 book, but it's Calvin Trillin, different
9 people, articles they wrote about restaurants
10 around the world.
11 And one I particularly enjoyed
12 reading was about a food writer who went to a
13 city in China, a small city in China that was
14 noted for its specialty, and there were two
15 major competing restaurants that served the
16 specialty. The specialty was rats.
17 And they believed that rat would
18 take your gray hair and turn it dark and be
19 real healthy for you. And everyone for

20 centuries in this city was eating rat. And it
21 was explained these were mountain rats that
22 lived on fruit and all, they weren't city rats
23 that lived on garbage.
24 And he described how people would
25 come down from the mountains every day with a

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1 bagful of rats. And the rats were alive in
2 cages outside, and you picked out whether you
3 wanted a fat one or a skinny one, and they
4 served it a million different ways.
5 I daresay, in respect for my
6 Asian-American constituents, I don't think we
7 would allow a restaurant to open in Manhattan
8 whose specialty was serving rat.
10 Knowingly.
11 (Laughter.)
12 SENATOR CONNOR: Knowingly, good
13 point. Mr. President, a very good point. At
14 least knowingly to the patrons.
15 So there are other traditions
16 throughout the world. You know, in particular
17 in China, for centuries, all sorts of animals
18 were killed.
19 But, you know, it's not just Asians
20 or Latinos. Today's New York Times has a
21 story about Switzerland and how it is still
22 legal in Switzerland to shoot cats. You can

23 shoot wild cats, or they can shoot your cat if
24 it's more than 200 yards away from your home.
25 Legally. And they sell it to tanners, and

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1 they put out products made from cat fur.
2 And apparently this was the custom
3 in Italy for a long time, but they banned it
4 recently. The European Union banned it. But
5 Switzerland is not part of the European Union.
6 So now there's a push in Switzerland to say
7 you're going to stop hunting cats. And they
8 had accounts in there of people whose pet went
9 missing and presumably ended up being part of
10 a rug or blanket or whatever.
11 So there are different cultural
12 traditions. And people from all those
13 traditions come here. And we certainly relish
14 them preserving most of their cultural
15 traditions.
16 But we have our own standards here,
17 and those standards people must conform to.
18 It is not -- we have made a judgment here it
19 is not legal for animals to fight here. We
20 find it offensive -- I find it offensive --
21 and we want to discourage these exhibitions.
22 And one way you do that is by discouraging
23 people coming to them. No exhibition will be
24 held for very long if nobody shows up to
25 watch.
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1 And while I appreciate the present
2 law says you're guilty if you wager, that's --
3 if you wager with the house, you can prove
4 that they were placing bets. What about two
5 spectators who just make a quiet side bet? No
6 money changes hands, they just say "Bet you 20
7 bucks the fat rooster wins." You know? How
8 are you going to prove that?
9 So I support this bill. I support
10 this bill, knowing that it has that scienter
11 provision, the innocent people who happen to
12 be at a cockfight and can't be prosecuted.
13 I really also don't think very many
14 people -- nobody is going to jail for being
15 there. But it's going to discourage people
16 from attending, and therefore it will
17 discourage people from holding these
18 exhibitions.
19 So, Mr. President, with respect for
20 all the wonderful diverse cultures that thrive
21 in our society, we do have a right and it is
22 proper to insist on conformity to certain
23 basic values that we as a society hold -- and
24 we may not always have held. Once upon a
25 time, I'm sure you could have cockfights here.

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1 Once upon a time.

2 Look, in America we're not without
3 fault. The rodeo is a great American
4 tradition. And I don't know, someday maybe
5 people think some guy taking the horns of a
6 bull and twisting its neck until it flips over
7 is inhumane. When that day comes, I'll look
8 forward to it.
10 Senator Diaz, are you asking Senator Connor to
11 yield?
12 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes.
14 Senator Connor, do you yield to Senator Diaz?
15 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly.
16 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Connor,
17 due to the fact that you yourself are a lawyer
18 and people should be condemned when they
19 knowingly -- what was the word you used?
20 SENATOR CONNOR: Scienter. It's
21 a Latin word, scienter. From which the word
22 "science" comes, knowledge.
23 SENATOR DIAZ: Oh. So knowingly,
24 knowingly. The fact that you're a lawyer, and
25 you are saying those people that commit a

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1 crime or violate the law should be prosecuted,
2 will you tell me that all those Chinese and
3 Asians in your district that knowingly violate
4 the law and came here, should they be

5 deported? Yes or no.
6 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I won't
7 answer yes or no.
8 SENATOR DIAZ: Oh, you won't
9 answer the question because --
10 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President,
11 will you call the Senator to order, please.
13 Senator refuses to answer.
14 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I will
15 answer the question. I refuse to be
16 cross-examined and demanded a yes or no
17 answer.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Fine.
19 Answer it your way.
20 SENATOR CONNOR: The answer to
21 the question, Mr. President, is I do not
22 support deporting any illegal immigrants. I
23 think we should make all so-called illegal
24 immigrants --
25 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President --

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1 SENATOR CONNOR: Excuse me. I'm
2 not finished, Mr. President.
3 I support a path to legalization
4 for all undocumented immigrants who are in
5 this country. I think this country's
6 immigration policies have been a sham and are
7 shameful, and I support the rights of all

8 people who are here to be legalized, to work,
9 to drive, to do everything else. And I don't
10 see the comparison.
11 And frankly, Mr. President, it's
12 like we have many great French restaurants. A
13 great delicacy in France is horsemeat. It's a
14 staple in France. I think we just passed a
15 bill, didn't we, to make the sale for human
16 consumption of horsemeat in New York illegal?
17 I don't think that's a slap at French people
18 or French people who run restaurants in
19 Manhattan.
20 So I don't see the comparison of
21 that with undocumented immigrants. I support
22 rights for undocumented immigrants across the
23 board.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I
25 would just respectfully remind --

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1 SENATOR CONNOR: Whether they're
2 in Chinatown or the Lower East Side in my
3 district. Or Williamsburg.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I
5 would just respectfully remind the body that
6 today is April first.
7 Go ahead, Senator Diaz.
8 SENATOR DIAZ: Would Senator
9 Connor yield for another question.
10 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly,

11 Mr. President.
13 Senator yields.
14 SENATOR DIAZ: It is -- it is --
15 I'm going to ask a question, but you'll have
16 to allow me to -- it is very -- I don't know,
17 I would not call it hypocritical, I would call
18 it confused that you are trying to show the
19 reasoning of the law by saying animal fighting
20 is illegal in the country, that therefore we
21 shall obey the law.
22 But when I ask the simple question,
23 Senator Connor, like I asked Senator Padavan,
24 if that is the case, Senator Connor, if that
25 is the case, that because it's illegal to do,

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1 that they should be punished, what about the
2 Chinese and the illegals in your district that
3 are illegal, shall we deport them, yes or no?
4 Because if the law is good for one thing, it
5 should be good for the other. You cannot make
6 exceptions to the law.
7 Thank you Mr. President.
8 So answer, please.
9 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, I
10 don't think the Latino immigrants in my
11 district or the Asian immigrants or the Jewish
12 immigrants who are there or the Irish
13 immigrants -- some of my favorite

14 bartenders -- should be deported. I think a
15 path to their legalization should be found.
16 In the meantime, I think a way for
17 them to work, drive, and otherwise function in
18 our society should be found. And I don't see
19 the comparison.
20 And in fact, Senator Diaz used the
21 word "condemn" these people. I don't think we
22 should condemn anyone in this state, and I've
23 said that for the last 30 years whenever we
24 debate the death penalty. And that's how I
25 understand condemnation in the criminal law.

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1 The fact is I think we should make
2 a statement here. I really don't think
3 prosecutorial discretion is going to result in
4 a lot of people ending up -- if any -- in jail
5 over this. But it will be a message to the
6 public that you're here, you have to change.
7 It will be a message to exhibitors that you
8 can't hold these exhibitions because no one
9 will be able to knowingly attend and still
10 abide by the law.
11 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Before
13 you speak, Senator, I just want to
14 respectfully point out I don't believe that
15 your questions on illegal immigrants are
16 really germane to this argument.

17 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, it
18 is very relevant.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I'd
20 ask that you keep your questions germane.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, the
22 question is very relevant. Because we cannot
23 do -- we cannot violate the law when it is
24 convenient for us.
25 Me, I protect the illegal

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1 immigrants. And I say if we going to go by
2 the law, sometimes the law gets broken,
3 sometimes the law gets broken to accommodate,
4 politically, people. When it's convenient,
5 the law gets broken.
6 What I'm saying is we are willing,
7 we are willing here now to say that a tourist
8 or anybody that is in a place who happens to
9 be at a cockfight or any fight to be punished
10 and to ruin the record of that person and for
11 that person to be subject to a misdemeanor and
12 a $1,000 fine when maybe the person don't even
13 know that there is a fight, an animal fight.
14 And we're willing to say, oh, yeah,
15 because the law says you're illegal -- I'm
16 asking if you are so dedicated to defend the
17 law, tell me, shall we deport illegal
18 immigrants? But because of political
19 inconvenience, nobody dares to answer. Nobody

20 dares. They go (gesturing) -- they're
21 circumventing the answer.
22 So don't come here to tell me that
23 the law has to be obeyed here and then we can
24 disobey here. If you're going to disobey the
25 law, tell me. But don't use that technique

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1 here that because it's illegal, we have to do
2 this, we have to process and make criminals of
3 tourists and people watching -- the people
4 that are in a place that they might not know
5 that it's happening, we can make them criminal
6 because the law says it's illegal.
7 That's wrong, that is wrong, that
8 is not fair. For tourists, for people, that
9 is not fair. I mean, I'm against animal
10 fighting. I am against animal fighting. But
11 to subject a person who happens to be in a
12 place that there are animal fighting, to tell
13 those people "you are a criminal," it's wrong.
14 It is wrong, and it is wrong, and it is wrong.
15 Thank you.
17 you, Senator.
18 Senator Adams.
19 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 You know, I think that Senator
22 Diaz -- my first impression was to vote

23 against -- was to vote in favor of the bill.
24 And I thank Senator Diaz and Senator
25 Schneiderman for the aspects that they have

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1 raised.
2 I think the first time that I saw
3 an animal die from fighting, I thought it was
4 tragic. And the animal was a human being. So
5 there's a level of hypocrisy to our tone that
6 we allow Ultimate Fighting Champions when we
7 state that violence among an animal is wrong.
8 I think our children mimic violence in the
9 ring more than they mimic violence between two
10 birds fighting.
11 So if our underlying concern is not
12 to create a culture in our society where
13 animals duplicating violent behavior is handed
14 down to our children, then I think we really
15 need to look at the sport that started out
16 with two men wearing a glove and has now
17 evolved to two people in a ring beating
18 themselves to a senseless nature.
19 I just want to deal with two
20 technical aspects of the bill that I think are
21 important.
22 True, it is the prosecutor's
23 responsibility to show if a person is
24 knowingly in the place. But that is not a
25 police officer's responsibility. When a

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1 police officer enters a premise where there's
2 illegal action taking place, either gambling
3 or prostitution or any other illegal action,
4 whoever is inside that premise is part of the
5 sweep, and they all are arrested.
6 And although they may not be found
7 guilty in a court of law, once you have that
8 criminal record and the stigmatization that's
9 associated with being handcuffed, prosecuted,
10 fingerprinted and taken to central booking and
11 have to pay for an attorney and have to go
12 through the whole court procedure, you all of
13 a sudden have to go through the same incident
14 as a person who is actually convicted of a
15 crime.
16 So we can't dismiss that the mere
17 fact that the person has only been arrested is
18 not a great deal. I don't want us ever to
19 reach a point in our country where arrest is a
20 term that's called "only." When a person is
21 incarcerated, their entire life they relive
22 that experience.
23 And I think Senator Diaz raised an
24 important point that we cannot ignore. Under
25 the entire American flag, cockfighting is not

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1 illegal. There is a place called Puerto Rico

2 where it's accepted. We do have men and women
3 who leave Puerto Rico, and they do come to
4 various parts of the state, carrying out their
5 culture. If we agree or disagree with it,
6 that's a whole other term. They don't know
7 that the mere fact that they're there, they're
8 breaking some form of a law. And I think he
9 raises a very important point.
10 I think we need to stop
11 cockfighting. I think that we need to stop
12 dogfighting. I think that we need to stop two
13 human beings in the ring fighting to kill each
14 other. I think it's wrong. I think it's the
15 wrong way to go.
16 I'm going to vote against this bill
17 because I think it's important that clarity
18 needs to be pointed out. Tourists and those
19 who come in and sit down and watch the action,
20 or if they're inside a premise that may have
21 more than one room and they're sitting there
22 in that premise, they should not be part of
23 that sweep.
24 We should not continue just to
25 criminalize people. We should always be

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1 concerned that the goal of criminalization
2 should be to go after bad people that do bad
3 things, not good citizens that are in the
4 wrong place at the wrong time. And I think

5 that this bill may have a tendency to do that.
6 So I'm going to vote against this
7 bill. Hopefully we can correct it and narrow
8 the terminology to go after those who sponsor
9 the act of cockfighting or sponsor the act of
10 a particular illegal crime so we can go after
11 those individuals and not just two people who
12 left San Juan and decided to visit this place
13 on 103rd Street and happen to be in a premise
14 where cockfighting is taking place and,
15 instead of returning back to their home, they
16 return back to a correctional facility.
17 That's not the tone that I believe we want to
18 do.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
21 you, Senator.
22 Any other Senator wishing to be
23 heard?
24 The debate is closed.
25 The Secretary will ring the bell.

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1 The Secretary will read the last
2 section.
6 the roll.

9 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.
10 Senator.
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just to
12 explain my vote.
13 This is a bill with a very simple
14 concept. Namely, if you're knowingly at a
15 location where an exhibition is going on where
16 two animals are fighting, that that person
17 should be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor if
18 convicted.
19 And the theory is very simple, that
20 if, as mentioned before, that if no one is
21 present --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse
23 me, Senator.
24 Will you please, out of respect,
25 hold down the noise in the chamber. Take

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1 conversations outside of the chamber.
2 Thank you, Senator.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's very
4 simple. If no one is there to watch, no one
5 is going to be providing those activities that
6 are otherwise illegal in this state.
7 I frankly cannot -- I have no idea
8 what the customs of Puerto Rico or Iran or
9 Italy or any other country have to do with
10 whether this is a good bill in the State of

11 New York. If we're a tourist in another
12 country, we abide by their rules, whatever
13 their rules are. You either think it's a good
14 idea or a bad idea.
15 But to bring in customs of other
16 countries to excuse liability for an act that
17 we think is an improper act, having these
18 types of exhibitions of people watching them,
19 I don't think has any logic at all.
20 To suggest also that I think these
21 things are bad, but we also have Ultimate
22 Fighting, that's bad too, as a reason to say
23 no to otherwise bad activity to make it
24 criminal, doesn't make sense to me either.
25 And what really doesn't make sense

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1 to me is how in God's name you bring up
2 illegal immigration into a debate over whether
3 dogfighting and persons who are watching
4 dogfighting should be prosecuted.
5 So it's a simple bill. It will
6 help encourage eliminating this type of
7 activity. And I'm going to vote aye.
9 you, Senator.
10 Senator Adams, to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR ADAMS: First of all, any
12 time we talk about incarcerating citizens of
13 this state is never simple. Any time you take

14 away a person's freedom, we should discuss it
15 to the full extent.
16 And any time we state the reason
17 for a bill that I heard today on this floor is
18 that we want to prevent our children from
19 participating in the actions of violence --
20 any time we use that terminology and can't
21 understand that Ultimate Fighting Champion
22 encouraged more violence than two birds
23 fighting in a ring -- if we don't understand
24 that, then there's a level of hypocrisy for
25 the reason that we're submitting this bill.

(518) 371-8910
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1 One of the reasons that was stated
2 for this bill is because we don't want our
3 children to continue the actions of violence.
4 That was a reason that was used. And the
5 reason I'm voting against this bill is because
6 it's too broad in scope and it does not deal
7 specifically if a person is in the premise or
8 they're watching the fighting.
9 And as a 21-year veteran of the
10 police department, I'm well aware that
11 whenever a sweep takes place, that whoever is
12 in that premise, in the front room or the back
13 room, is also arrested. And that's why I'm
14 voting against this bill.
16 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the

17 negative.
19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
20 the negative on Calendar Number 619 are
21 Senators Adams, Hassell-Thompson, Huntley,
22 Montgomery, Onorato, Parker and Schneiderman.
23 Also Senator Diaz.
24 Absent from voting: Senators
25 Gonzalez and C. Kruger.

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1 Ayes, 50. Nays, 8.
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Libous.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
6 can we return to motions and resolutions. I
7 believe there is a motion at the desk.
9 Motions and resolutions.
10 Senator Nozzolio.
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 On page number 34 I offer the
14 following amendments to Calendar Number 590,
15 Senate Print Number 467, and ask that said
16 bill retain its place on Third Reading
17 Calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: So
19 ordered.
20 Senator Libous.
21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
22 there will be an immediate conference of the
23 Majority in Room 332.
24 And we expect to return to session
25 at about 3:15.

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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: There
2 will be an immediate meeting of the Majority
3 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332, and
4 we will return at 3:15.
5 Senator Duane.
6 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 In an effort to further our
9 celebration of April Fools Day, the Minority
10 conference will also be having an immediate
11 conference in our conference room.
13 Minority will have an immediate conference in
14 the Minority Conference Room.
15 Thank you, Senator.
16 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
17 ease at 2:45 p.m.)
18 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
19 at 3:36 p.m.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
21 Senate will come to order.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
24 believe there's a privileged resolution at the
25 desk. If we could have the title read and

(518) 371-8910
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1 move for its immediate adoption.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
5 Volker, Legislative Resolution Number 5050,
6 memorializing Governor David A. Paterson to
7 proclaim May 21, 2008, as Police Memorial Day
8 in the State of New York.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: All in
10 favor signify by saying aye.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (No response.)
16 resolution is adopted.
17 Senator Skelos.
19 there will be an immediate meeting of the
20 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference
21 Room.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
23 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance
24 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.
25 The Senate stands at ease.

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1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
2 ease at 3:37 p.m.)
3 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
4 at 3:41 p.m.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:
6 Senator Skelos.
8 if we could return to reports of standing
9 committees for the Finance Committee report.
11 Reports of standing committees.
12 The Secretary will read the Finance
13 Committee report.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator O.
15 Johnson, from the Committee on Finance,
16 reports the following bill direct to third
17 reading:
18 Senate Print 6808C, Senate Budget
19 Bill, an act to amend the Elder Law.
21 Without objection, the bill is reported direct
22 to third reading.
23 The Secretary will read.
25 690, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 6808C,

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1 an act to amend the Elder Law, in relation to

2 reimbursement to participating provider
3 pharmacies.
5 Senator Skelos.
7 is there a message of necessity at the desk?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Yes,
9 there is.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: All in
12 favor of accepting the message of necessity
13 signify by saying aye.
16 Opposed, nay.
17 (No response.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The
19 message is accepted.
20 Read the last section.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
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4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The

5 bill is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
8 is there any further business at the desk?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: There
10 is none, Senator.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: There being
12 none, I move we stand adjourned, subject to
13 the call of the Majority Leader.
14 And I would just ask that members
15 stay in touch with their respective leaders
16 and with your offices.
17 Thank you very much.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On
19 motion, the Senate stands adjourned, subject
20 to the call of the Majority Leader.
21 (Whereupon, at 3:46 p.m., the
22 Senate adjourned.)
23
24
25

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1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

9 ALBANY, NEW YORK

18 SENATOR THOMAS P. MORAHAN, Acting President

19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The

3 Senate will come to order.

4 And I ask everyone present to

5 please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The

10 invocation today will be given by the Reverend

11 Teddy R. Herron, pastor, Glen Baptist Church,

14 REVEREND HERRON: Shall we pray.

15 Father, I thank You for these men

16 and women who give of their time and talent to

17 benefit the citizenry of our state. I pray

18 that You might give them wisdom, I pray that

19 You might give them safety.

20 Father, unite them. We know these

21 are stressful times. We know that they're

22 tired, and events are unfolding that are

23 unusual. Father, we pray for Your grace to be

24 upon them. We pray for discernment and

1 Father, we thank You again for the

2 privilege we have of beginning this session in

3 prayer, with Your watchful care. Father, I

4 thank You that You are a friend that sticks

5 closer than a brother.

6 Encourage these men and women to do

7 that which is right, and let them give an

8 account before You, having done their best.

9 We ask these things in the precious

10 name of my precious savior, Jesus Christ.

12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank

14 Reading of the Journal.

15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,

16 Monday, March 31, the Senate met pursuant to

17 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 30,

18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate

20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

21 Without objection, the Journal stands approved

24 Messages from the Assembly.

25 Messages from the Governor.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

1 Reports of standing committees.

3 Communications and reports from

5 Motions and resolutions.

7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I

8 believe there are two substitutions at the

9 desk, if we could make them at this time.

10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The

11 Secretary will read.

12 THE SECRETARY: On page 37,

13 Senator Golden moves to discharge, from the

14 Committee on Cities, Assembly Bill Number

15 10105 and substitute it for the identical

16 Senate Bill Number 6957, Third Reading

18 And on page 38, Senator Padavan