June 17, 2008

Top of Form 1
Date: 06/17/2008
Session: Regular
3586
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 17, 2008
11 11:05 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR THOMAS W. LIBOUS, Acting President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910
3587
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and repeat after me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: To give
10 the invocation this morning is Reverend
11 Matthew Smith, pastor of Faith Baptist Church
12 in Cortland.
13 REVEREND SMITH: Let us pray.
14 Almighty God and Eternal Father,
15 You are the mighty King of Kings and Lord of
16 Lords. Your kingdom is an everlasting
17 kingdom, and Your dominion is from generation
18 to generation.
19 Today we acknowledge Your great
20 sovereignty, that You do according to Your
21 Will in the host of heaven and among the
22 inhabitants of the earth.
23 We give You thanks for revealing
24 Your glory among the nations and for giving us
25 the opportunity to cherish the freedoms that

(518) 371-8910
3588
1 You have provided for us as citizens of this
2 country and this great state.
3 We thank You for each of the
4 members of this honorable Senate that You have
5 called to represent Your people. We thank You
6 for their families and their staff, and we ask
7 that the light of Your divine wisdom direct
8 their deliberations and shine forth in all
9 their proceedings -- the bills, the
10 resolutions framed by them.
11 Grant them the fortitude to make
12 decisions and lead our state in a way that
13 pleases You. May those who serve in this body
14 be enabled by Your powerful protection to
15 discharge their duties with honesty and
16 integrity. Give them strength of body and
17 mind and boldness to stand for what is right
18 in Your sight.
19 May they seek to preserve peace,
20 protect life, promote happiness, and continue
21 to bring us the blessings of liberty and
22 justice for all.
23 Today we implore the assistance of
24 heaven and ask that Your will always be done
25 in our state and that Your love always abound

(518) 371-8910
3589
1 in our hearts, for to You belong the

2 greatness, the power and the glory forever and
3 ever.
4 And I ask this in the name above
5 all names, the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Reading
7 of the Journal.
8 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
9 Monday, June 16, the Senate met pursuant to
10 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, June 15,
11 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
12 adjourned.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
14 objection, the Journal stands approved as
15 read.
16 Presentation of petitions.
17 Messages from the Assembly.
18 Messages from the Governor.
19 Reports of standing committees.
20 Reports of select committees.
21 Communications and reports from
22 state officers.
23 Motions and resolutions.
24 Senator Farley.
25 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you,

(518) 371-8910
3590
1 Mr. President.
2 On behalf of Senator Morahan, I
3 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 2441,
4 recalled from the Assembly, and it's now at

5 your desk.
7 Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1124, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 2441,
10 an act to amend the Tax Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
12 Farley.
13 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
14 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
15 bill was passed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
17 the roll on reconsideration.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
21 now offer the following amendments.
23 amendments are received.
24 Senator Skelos.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I

(518) 371-8910
3591
1 believe there are a number of substitutions at
2 the desk, if we could make them at this time.
5 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
6 Senator Fuschillo moves to discharge, from the
7 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number 72D

8 and substitute it for the identical Senate
9 Bill Number 2360D, Third Reading Calendar 165.
10 On page 20, Senator Lanza moves to
11 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
12 Assembly Bill Number 537B and substitute it
13 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2173B,
14 Third Reading Calendar 555.
15 On page 20, Senator Alesi moves to
16 discharge, from the Committee on Consumer
17 Protection, Assembly Bill Number 472 and
18 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
19 Number 170A, Third Reading Calendar 567.
20 On page 28, Senator Hannon moves to
21 discharge, from the Committee on Health,
23 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5018B,
25 On page 31, Senator Farley moves to

(518) 371-8910
3592
2 Assembly Bill Number 11028 and substitute it
3 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7365,
5 On page 44, Senator Larkin moves to
10 On page 48, Senator O. Johnson

11 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
12 Health, Assembly Bill Number 10677 and
14 Number 7694, Third Reading Calendar 1290.
15 On page 56, Senator Young moves to
16 discharge, from the Committee on Commerce,
17 Economic Development and Small Business,

(518) 371-8910
3593
8 On page 56, Senator Seward moves to
10 Assembly Bill Number 7699A and substitute it
11 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4617A,

18 On page 57, Senator Padavan moves
19 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
23 On page 59, Senator Hannon moves to

(518) 371-8910
3594
3 On page 62, Senator Nozzolio moves
4 to discharge, from the Committee on Civil
5 Service and Pensions, Assembly Bill Number
6 1804A and substitute it for the identical
7 Senate Bill Number 8336, Third Reading
8 Calendar 1759.
9 On page 63, Senator Flanagan moves

20 On page 66, Senator DeFrancisco
22 Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities,

(518) 371-8910
3595
1 On page 67, Senator Farley moves to
3 Assembly Bill Number 251 and substitute it for
4 the identical Senate Bill Number 5621, Third
5 Reading Calendar 1863.
6 On page 67, Senator Fuschillo moves
7 to discharge, from the Committee on Civil
8 Service and Pensions, Assembly Bill Number
9 8473A and substitute it for the identical
10 Senate Bill Number 5687B, Third Reading
11 Calendar 1864.
12 On page 67, Senator Saland moves to
13 discharge, from the Committee on Education,


(518) 371-8910
3596
8 On page 69, Senator Valesky moves
13 On page 69, Senator Maziarz moves
18 And on page 69, Senator Griffo
20 Elections, Assembly Bill Number 10087 and
22 Number 8443, Third Reading Calendar 1891.

23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
24 Substitutions ordered.
25 Senator Griffo.

(518) 371-8910
3597
1 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
2 I'd like to call up my bill, Print Number
3 8363, recalled from the Assembly, which is now
4 at the desk.
8 1703, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
9 Print 8363, an act in relation to adjusting.
11 Griffo.
12 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, I
14 bill was passed.
19 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, I
23 Senator Skelos.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
25 if we could adopt the Resolution Calendar,

(518) 371-8910
3598
1 with the exception of Resolution 6606.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: All in
3 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,
4 with the exception of Resolution 6606, say
5 aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (No response.)
11 Resolution Calendar is adopted.
12 Senator Skelos.
14 Resolution 6606, by Senator Bruno, is at the
15 desk. If we could read it in its entirety,
16 move for its immediate adoption, and open it
17 up for cosponsorship.
19 Secretary will read Resolution Number 6606 in
20 its entirety.
21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno,
22 Legislative Resolution Number 6606, mourning
23 the death of David D. Cole, distinguished
24 citizen and devoted member of his community.
25 "WHEREAS, It is the custom of this

(518) 371-8910
3599
1 Legislative Body to pay tribute to citizens of

2 the State of New York whose lifework and civic
3 endeavor served to enhance the quality of life
4 in their communities and the great State of
5 New York; and
6 "WHEREAS, David D. Cole of Averill
7 Park, New York, died on Wednesday,
8 November 14, 2007, at the age of 66; and
9 "WHEREAS, Born in Troy, New York,
10 to the late Westburn and Vera Jones Cole,
11 David D. Cole graduated from Troy High School
12 in 1959; and
13 "WHEREAS, on May 5, 1962, David
14 married JoAnn Hug, who was also a student at
15 Troy High School. Together, they had four
16 wonderful children. Since 1963, the Cole
17 family has resided within the Averill Park
18 area; and
19 "WHEREAS, David D. Cole
20 distinguished himself in his profession and by
21 his sincere dedication and substantial
22 contribution to the welfare of his community;
23 and
24 "WHEREAS, on August 6, 1990, David
25 D. Cole began his employment with the New York

(518) 371-8910
3600
1 State Senate as a supply clerk. After more
2 than 17 years of dedicated service and
3 numerous promotions, he retired on October 31,
4 2007, from the position of audiovisual

5 technician; and
6 "WHEREAS, A communicant of
7 St. Henry's Church in Averill Park, David D.
8 Cole enjoyed carpentry work and doing his own
9 home improvements, as well as gardening. In
10 addition, he took great pleasure in spending
11 time with both his children and his
12 grandchildren, with his number-one goal in his
13 life being to teach them everything he knew
14 about fixing things and the many talents he
15 had learned throughout his life; and
16 "WHEREAS, Another occasion that
17 brought great happiness to David's life was
18 the family vacations they took each year to
19 Rhode Island. He enjoyed the ocean and deep
20 sea fishing; and
21 "WHEREAS, Predeceased by his
22 brother Allen Cole, David D. Cole is survived
23 by his wife, JoAnn Hug Cole; his four
24 children, Cindy Ann and Antonio Torres Cole,
25 John W. and Regina Cole, Daniel F. and Brenda

(518) 371-8910
3601
1 Cole, and Donna and Scott Cole-Paul; brother,
2 John and Grace Cole; sister, Charlotte and
3 William Foster; mother-in-law, Josephine Hug;
4 and 11 grandchildren; and
5 "WHEREAS, A wonderful husband,
6 loving father and caring grandfather who
7 always put everyone else's needs ahead of his

8 own, David D. Cole leaves behind a legacy
9 which will long endure the passage of time and
10 will remain as a comforting memory to all he
11 served and befriended; now, therefore, be it
12 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
13 Body pause in its deliberations to mourn the
14 death of David D. Cole, distinguished citizen
15 and devoted member of his community; and be it
16 further
17 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this
18 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
19 to the family of David D. Cole."
21 Farley, before you speak, could I ask --
22 there's too many conversations in the
23 fireplaces. Could you please take your
24 conversations outside while this very serious
25 resolution is being taken up.

(518) 371-8910
3602
1 Senator Farley, you have the floor,
2 sir.
4 Mr. President.
5 I rise on behalf of Senator Bruno,
6 of whom David Cole was his constituent and
7 long-time member of this house.
8 You know, David Cole sat right here
9 and made it possible at this desk for us to
10 speak for 17 years. He was a very kind and

11 gentle and capable person who was a tremendous
12 help to the desk and to everyone. And, you
13 know, as you review his life -- and he was
14 taken too quickly, in my judgment -- David was
15 most importantly a family man, somebody that
16 had 11 grandchildren, loved his family. I
17 noticed he loved deep sea fishing and being
18 with his family in Rhode Island.
19 David Cole was a member of this
20 house and a cherished member of the Senate who
21 did a terrific job for us. He died last
22 November when we were out of session, and
23 consequently we're doing this resolution
24 today.
25 Mr. President, his family is here

(518) 371-8910
3603
1 in the gallery, and I know that you're going
2 to acknowledge them. He not only was a dear
3 friend of Senator Bruno's and everybody in
4 this chamber; of course, John Casey, who's our
5 counsel at the desk up there, was also very
6 close with his family.
7 And on behalf of the New York State
8 Senate, I want to extend our deepest sympathy
9 on the loss of your dad and your husband and
10 grandfather, and wish you all well, and to
11 thank you so much for the service that David
12 rendered to this house.

14 Duane.
15 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 David Cole was an absolute pleasure
18 to work with in every way -- on the floor, off
19 the floor, just really made everything just go
20 so much easier. He was really smart about how
21 he did his job and made it seem effortless for
22 the rest of us. And he was incredibly helpful
23 to everybody, members and staff.
24 And I know I speak for our entire
25 conference, members and staff, when I say how

(518) 371-8910
3604
1 much we miss him and how much we enjoyed
2 working with him, and our deepest sympathies
3 go out to his family and his friends. He is
4 enormously missed.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: On the
7 resolution, all in favor signify by saying
8 aye.
11 Opposed, nay.
12 (No response.)
14 resolution is carried.
15 We are joined today by David's
16 family: his daughter Donna, his son John, and

17 his wife JoAnn.
18 Our hearts are saddened, as yours
19 are. He was a very dear friend of every
20 member of this chamber. He came to work
21 diligently every day, always smiled, always
22 worked. And as you will miss a father an
23 husband, we will miss a true friend of the
24 Senate. Our sympathies are with your family.
25 Senator Skelos.

(518) 371-8910
3605
1 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could have
2 an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: There
4 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
5 Committee in Room 332.
6 The Senate will stand at ease
7 temporarily.
8 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
9 ease at 11:25 a.m.)
10 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
11 at 11:32 a.m.)
14 Members please find their seats,
15 take the conversations outside of the chamber.
16 Senator Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 And I would urge the members to

20 stick close to the chamber because we have
21 many bills to take up today, so we can move
22 quickly.
23 So if we could go to the
24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

(518) 371-8910
3606
1 Skelos has ordered the noncontroversial
2 reading of the calendar.
3 The Secretary will read.
5 88, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5344, an
6 act to amend the Banking Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
12 the roll.
16 bill is passed.
18 103, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 6737A,
19 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
20 Law and the Public Authorities Law.
22 the last section.

24 act shall take effect immediately.

(518) 371-8910
3607
1 the roll.
5 bill is passed.
7 165, substituted earlier today by Member of
8 the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Print Number
9 72D, an act to amend the General Business Law.
15 the roll.
19 bill is passed.
21 195 --
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
23 the day, please.
25 bill is laid aside for the day.

(518) 371-8910
3608
2 247, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 6829, an
3 act to amend the Civil Service Law.
5 the last section.
9 the roll.
13 bill is passed.
15 264, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 930B, an
16 act to amend the Business Corporation Law and
17 the Education Law.
21 act shall take effect January 1, 2010.
23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3609

2 bill is passed.
4 411, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 6966B, an
5 act to amend the Elder Law.
7 the last section.
11 the roll.
15 bill is passed.
17 436, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4321A, an
18 act appointing certain individuals to
19 full-time status.
21 is a home-rule message at the desk.
22 Read the last section.

(518) 371-8910
3610
1 the roll.

5 bill is passed.
7 444, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 6799C,
8 an act to create a course of instruction to
9 train mental health providers.
15 the roll.
19 bill is passed.
21 521, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6217A,
22 an act to amend the Highway Law.

(518) 371-8910
3611
3 the roll.
7 bill is passed.
10 the Assembly Paulin, Assembly Print Number
11 537B, an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage
12 Control Law.
18 the roll.
22 bill is passed.
25 the Assembly Fields, Assembly Print Number

(518) 371-8910
3612
1 472, an act to amend the General Business Law.
3 the last section.
7 the roll.

11 bill is passed.
13 612, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 205B, an
14 act to amend the Insurance Law.
18 act shall take effect on the first of January.
20 the roll.
24 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3613
1 614, by Senator Seward --
2 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
3 please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Would
5 you lay that bill aside, please, at the
6 request of Senator Duane.
8 693, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 962C, an
9 act to amend the Public Officers Law and the
10 Civil Practice Law and Rules.

16 the roll.
20 bill is passed.
21 Could I again ask, so that we can
22 hear the clerk, that conversations be taken
23 outside of the chamber so the members can hear
24 the roll call.

(518) 371-8910
3614
2 705, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 4157E, an
3 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and
4 the Education Law.
6 is a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
11 the roll.
14 Golden, to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 I rise today to compliment our body
18 and to compliment the Assembly for voting this
19 bill, because this bill will protect children
20 across the city and state of New York.
21 Our parents send their kids and
22 place them on those buses, and they believe
23 when that child leaves their home and gets on
24 that bus that they are safe and that they will
25 return to them safely.

(518) 371-8910
3615
1 And we see, time after time, fights
2 on these buses, we see where kids have been
3 abused, assaulted, beaten not only by the
4 students but by the bus drivers themselves.
5 We now, with this bill, will be
6 able to identify with this monitoring system
7 those that would be causing this harm to our
8 children and put a stop to it across the city
9 and state of New York.
10 There are 55,000 school buses that
11 transmit 2.3 million children each and every
12 day. And just this past week we've seen on
13 YouTube where the kids were in a fight and
14 they fought for over 15 minutes on this bus
15 before it was stopped, and kids were hurt and
16 taken to the hospital.
17 This would give that sense of
18 security. That would also give us the ability
19 to understand what's going on on those buses

20 and would put these bus drivers and the
21 children on notice that there is a monitoring
22 system on that bus.
23 I have children today up in the
24 gallery upstairs here, and they come from
25 McKinley Junior High School. These are stars

(518) 371-8910
3616
1 from McKinley Junior High School. And each
2 and every one of these kids are bussed in and
3 out of McKinley Junior High School and see
4 what's going on.
5 This is in addition to keeping our
6 kids secure and giving our mothers and
7 fathers, the parents of these children, the
8 opportunity to know that when their kids go to
9 school that they will be safe.
10 I vote aye. Thank you, sir.
11 (Applause from balcony.)
13 Golden is recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Diaz, to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,
16 Mr. Chairman.
17 I also rise to support this piece
18 of legislation and congratulate Senator Golden
19 and congratulate Assemblyman Ruben Diaz, Jr.,
20 who is the sponsor of this bill in the
21 Assembly.
22 This is a bill that is sorely

23 needed, especially in the City of New York,
24 where so many accidents and so many troubles
25 with the children that are being left alone

(518) 371-8910
3617
1 sometimes in the school buses.
2 So, Senator Golden,
3 congratulations. And congratulations to
4 Assemblyman Ruben Diaz, Jr. This is a
5 wonderful bill and it's a bill needed.
6 Thank you very much.
8 Announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
10 0.
12 bill is passed.
14 730, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 302A, an
15 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
19 act shall take effect June 1, 2009.
21 the roll.
25 bill is passed.
(518) 371-8910
3618
2 741, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3811A,
3 an act to amend the Penal Law.
5 the last section.
7 act shall take effect on the first of
8 November.
10 the roll.
14 bill is passed.
16 787, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 3225A, an
17 act to amend the Education Law.
23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3619

2 bill is passed.
5 the Assembly Paulin, Assembly Print Number
6 7674B, an act to amend the Public Health Law.
8 the last section.
12 the roll.
16 bill is passed.
18 879, by Senator Padavan --
20 the day, please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it
22 aside for the day.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 892, by
24 Senator Farley, Senate Print 7360A, an act to
25 amend the Banking Law.

(518) 371-8910
3620
2 the last section.

6 the roll.
9 1. Senator Maziarz recorded in the negative.
11 bill is passed.
14 the Assembly Towns, Assembly Print Number
15 11028, an act to amend the Banking Law.
21 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3621
1 bill is passed.
3 924, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6468A, an
4 act to amend the --
5 SENATOR HANNON: Lay it aside for
6 the day.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it

8 aside for the day.
10 1003, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 7602A, an
11 act to amend the Penal Law.
16 November.
18 the roll.
22 bill is passed.
24 1115, by Senator C. Kruger, Senate Print
25 8147A, an act to amend the Social Services

(518) 371-8910
3622
1 Law.
3 the last section.
7 the roll.

11 bill is passed.
13 1155, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7593,
14 an act in relation to authorizing the
15 Commissioner of Environmental Conservation.
21 the roll.
25 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3623
3 the Assembly Cahill, Assembly Print Number
4 10831, an act to adjust certain state aid
5 payments.
7 the last section.
11 the roll.

15 bill is passed.
17 1249, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 8212, an
18 act to amend the Labor Law.
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3624
2 Robach, to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, just
4 briefly, Mr. President.
5 Thank you, colleagues, for
6 supporting this, and I believe it has support
7 in the other house.
8 Given the climate we're in today,
9 with people switching jobs frequently, the
10 economy in a little bit, sometimes, of a
11 turmoil, this is a very, very important bill.
12 We worked closely with the commissioner,
13 everyone involved.
14 This bill, called the WARN Act,
15 Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification
16 Act, is critically important in today's world.

17 It requires that companies have to give people
18 a 90-day notification in terms of downsizing,
19 downturning or even closing. We've had
20 incidents in my district where people actually
21 showed up to work on a Monday having no idea
22 that their place of employment would be
23 closing or no word from management, obviously
24 giving them no time to transition or change.
25 This would at least rectify that

(518) 371-8910
3625
1 and help them in some small way as they deal
2 with this difficulty. And it's something,
3 unfortunately, we need in today's environment.
4 So I wanted to thank my colleagues
5 for their support of this very, very important
6 legislation.
9 Robach is in the affirmative.
10 Results.
12 0.
14 bill is passed.
17 the Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print Number
18 10677, an act to amend Chapter 563 of the Laws
19 of 2001 amending the Public Health Law.

25 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3626
4 bill is passed.
6 1319, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 559, an
7 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.
9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
19 1337, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 7125, an
20 act to amend the Elder Law.

24 act shall take effect on the first of April.

(518) 371-8910
3627
1 the roll.
5 bill is passed.
8 act to amend the Tax Law.
14 the roll.
18 bill is passed.
20 1426, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 7405, an
21 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

(518) 371-8910
3628
2 the roll.
5 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
7 bill is passed.
10 an act to amend the Education Law.
16 the roll.
20 bill is passed.
22 1441, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7776,
23 an act to amend the Public Service Law.

(518) 371-8910
3629

4 the roll.
8 bill is passed.
10 1453, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6731, an
11 act to amend the Executive Law.
17 the roll.
21 bill is passed.
24 the Assembly Gianaris, Assembly Print Number
25 8075, an act to amend the State Administrative

(518) 371-8910
3630
1 Procedure Act.
3 the last section.

7 the roll.
11 bill is passed.
14 the Assembly Gianaris, Assembly Print Number
15 8074, an act to amend the State Administrative
16 Procedure Act.
22 the roll.
25 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

(518) 371-8910
3631
2 bill is passed.
4 1460, substituted earlier by Member of the
5 Assembly Gianaris, Assembly Print Number
6 10393, an act to amend the State
7 Administrative Procedure Act.

9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
20 the Assembly Destito, Assembly Print Number
21 7699A, an act to amend the General Municipal
22 Law.

(518) 371-8910
3632
3 the roll.
7 bill is passed.
9 1469, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6535A,
10 an act to amend the Insurance Law.

16 the roll.
20 bill is passed.
22 1475, by Senator Seward --
24 the day, please.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay

(518) 371-8910
3633
1 this bill aside for the day.
4 the Assembly Morelle, Assembly Print Number
5 10656, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
7 the last section.
11 the roll.

15 bill is passed.
18 the Assembly Brennan, Assembly Print Number
19 10389, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
20 Law.

(518) 371-8910
3634
1 the roll.
5 bill is passed.
6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
7 I wanted to be recorded in the negative on
8 that.
10 Maziarz would wish to be recorded in the
11 negative on that bill.
12 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
13 Calendar Number 1491: Ayes, 56. Nays, 1.
14 Senator Maziarz recorded in the negative.
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill
18 8189A, Calendar Number 1640.
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3635
3 bill is passed.
5 1809, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,
6 Assembly Print Number 10981, an act to amend
7 Chapter 318 of the Laws of 2004.
9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
18 Calendar 1809 will be laid aside
19 temporarily. It is out of order and will be

20 picked up later on today.
22 1509, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 8234, an
23 act to amend Chapter 384 of the Laws of 1998
24 amending the Public Authorities Law.

(518) 371-8910
3636
1 the last section.
5 the roll.
9 bill is passed.
12 the Assembly Rivera, Assembly Print Number
13 11054A, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene
14 Law.
18 act shall take effect upon the date of the
19 approval and availability of the simplified
20 Advanced Healthcare Directives form.
22 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3637
1 bill is passed.
4 act to amend the Public Officers Law.
6 the last section.
10 the roll.
14 bill is passed.
17 act to amend the Public Officers Law.
23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3638
2 bill is passed.
3 We're going to go to Calendar
4 Number 1279 that was skipped inadvertently,
5 and then we'll go back to regular order.
8 1279, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 8196A,
9 an act to amend the Social Services Law and
10 the Public Authorities Law.
16 the roll.
20 bill is passed.
22 1614, by Senator Griffo, Senate Print 6930B,
23 an act to amend the Correction Law.

(518) 371-8910
3639

4 the roll.
6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
7 the negative on 1614 are Senators Duane,
8 Montgomery, Perkins and Serrano.
9 Ayes, 53. Nays, 4.
11 bill is passed.
13 1656, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
14 5307A, an act to amend the Education Law and
15 others.
19 act shall take effect two years after the date
20 on which it shall have become law.
22 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3640
1 bill is passed.
2 Senator Skelos.
4 as we're taking care of certain clerical

5 situations, I just want to wish our colleague
6 Mary Lou Rath, Senator Rath, a happy birthday.
7 Happy birthday, Mary Lou.
8 (Applause.)
10 Rath.
11 SENATOR RATH: Thank you. After
12 a certain point they're all nonbirthdays, but
13 thank you.
14 (Laughter.)
16 Rath, happy birthday.
20 an act to authorize the Rockland Housing
21 Action Coalition, Inc.

(518) 371-8910
3641
2 the roll.
5 the negative on Calendar Number 1671 are
6 Senators Bonacic, Larkin and Rath.

9 bill is passed.
11 1695, by Senator Leibell --
13 the day, please.
17 1710, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1665A,
18 an act to amend the Family Court Act.
25 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3642
4 bill is passed.
7 an act to authorize.
9 the last section.

13 the roll.
18 Ayes, 54. Nays, 3.
20 bill is passed.
22 1729, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print --
24 the day, please.

(518) 371-8910
3643
3 1738, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3223A,
4 an act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law.
6 the last section.
10 the roll.

14 bill is passed.
17 the Assembly Lupardo, Assembly Print Number
18 1804A, an act to amend the Civil Service Law.
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3644
3 bill is passed.
5 1762, by Senator Robach --
6 SENATOR ROBACH: Lay it aside for
7 the day.
11 1779, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5034,

18 the roll.
22 bill is passed.
24 1794, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print
25 6711, an act to authorize Global Concepts

(518) 371-8910
3645
1 Charter School.
3 the last section.
7 the roll.
12 Ayes, 54. Nays, 3.
14 bill is passed.
16 1802, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 7490A,
18 SENATOR WINNER: Lay it aside for
19 the day.

(518) 371-8910
3646
1 the last section.
5 the roll.
9 bill is passed.
11 1809, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,
13 Chapter 318 of the Laws of 2004.
19 the roll.

23 bill is passed.
25 1828, by the Assembly Committee on Rules --

(518) 371-8910
3647
2 the day, please.
4 that bill aside for the day.
6 1829, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 8018, an
9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 Senators Duane, Montgomery, Perkins and
18 Serrano.
19 Ayes, 53. Nays, 4.
21 bill is passed.
24 act to establish the Teen Driver Safety
25 Commission.
(518) 371-8910
3648
2 the last section.
6 the roll.
10 bill is passed.
12 1832, by Senator Huntley, Senate Print 8224,
13 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
19 the roll.
23 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3649
1 the Assembly O'Donnell, Assembly Print Number

3 of 1993.
5 the last section.
9 the roll.
13 bill is passed.
15 1834, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 8357, an
22 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3650
1 bill is passed.
4 an act relating to the real property tax

5 exemption.
7 the last section.
11 the roll.
15 bill is passed.
18 an act to amend Chapter 24 of the Laws of
19 2007, amending the Mental Hygiene Law.
25 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3651
4 bill is passed.
6 1837, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 8426,
7 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

9 the last section.
13 the roll.
18 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3652
3 the roll.
7 bill is passed.
9 1839, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 8437,
10 an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

16 the roll.
20 bill is passed.
23 Print Number 8442, an act to amend the Real
24 Property Tax Law.

(518) 371-8910
3653
1 the last section.
5 the roll.
9 bill is passed.
11 1841, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 8447,
12 an act to amend the Monroe County Tax Act.

18 the roll.
22 bill is passed.
24 1843, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 8455,

(518) 371-8910
3654
2 the last section.
6 the roll.
10 bill is passed.
12 1845, by Senator Maltese --
14 please.
16 that bill aside.

18 1846, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 8459,
19 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
25 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3655
4 bill is passed.
7 act in relation to requiring.
9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
19 1849, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 8466, an

20 act to amend Chapter 673 of the Laws of 2005,
21 amending the Insurance Law.

(518) 371-8910
3656
2 the roll.
6 bill is passed.
8 1850, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 8472,
9 an act to amend the Public Officers Law.
15 the roll.
19 bill is passed.
21 1852, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 8483, an
22 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.


(518) 371-8910
3657
3 the roll.
7 Senators Duane and Perkins.
10 bill is passed.
13 the Assembly Morelle, Assembly Print Number
14 2554A, an act to amend the Economic
15 Development Law.
21 the roll.
25 bill is passed.
(518) 371-8910
3658
3 an act to amend the Volunteer Firefighters
4 Benefit Law and the Volunteer Ambulance
5 Workers Benefit Law.
7 the last section.
11 the roll.
15 bill is passed.
18 act to amend the Public Authorities Law and
19 the Executive Law.
25 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3659

4 bill is passed.
9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
20 an act to amend the New York State Urban
21 Development Corporation Act.

(518) 371-8910
3660
2 the roll.

6 bill is passed.
8 1859, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4490, an
9 act to authorize.
15 the roll.
20 Ayes, 55. Nays, 3.
22 bill is passed.
24 1860, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5052A,
25 an act to amend the Executive Law.

(518) 371-8910
3661
2 the last section.
6 the roll.

10 bill is passed.
13 the Assembly Rivera, Assembly Print Number
14 8983, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
20 the roll.
24 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3662
1 1862, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5357A,
2 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets
3 Law.
5 the last section.
9 the roll.

13 bill is passed.
16 the Assembly Magnarelli, Assembly Print Number
17 251, an act to amend the Banking Law.
23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3663
2 bill is passed.
5 the Assembly Cahill, Assembly Print Number
6 8473A, an act to amend the Civil Service Law.
8 the last section.
12 the roll.

16 bill is passed.
19 an act in relation to state aid for certain
20 school districts.

(518) 371-8910
3664
1 the roll.
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar
7 Number --
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Excuse
9 me. Excuse me.
10 Ladies and gentlemen, could we have
11 some order in the chamber. Take your
12 conversations outside of the chamber so we can
13 hear the clerk read the roll. Thank you.
16 1866, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print --

18 the day, please.
20 that aside for the day.
23 the Assembly Nolan, Assembly Print Number
24 8699B, an act to amend the Education Law.

(518) 371-8910
3665
1 the last section.
5 the roll.
9 bill is passed.
11 1868, by Senator Young, Senate Print 6198A, an
18 the roll.

22 bill is passed.
25 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

(518) 371-8910
3666
2 the last section.
5 November.
7 the roll.
11 bill is passed.
14 an act in relation to enacting.
20 the roll.

24 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3667
1 1872, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 6762B, an
2 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
4 the last section.
7 November.
9 the roll.
12 Schneiderman, to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 This piece of legislation would
16 eliminate the protections provided to youthful
17 offenders, the confidentiality regarding
18 misconduct when they were acting under
19 youthful offender status, if the youthful
20 offender was in possession of a graffiti
21 instrument.
22 I realize that, you know, there are
23 a lot of very, very substantial crimes, there
24 are a lot of really severe crimes that someone
25 can be found guilty of when they're in

(518) 371-8910
3668
1 youthful offender status. But why we should
2 single out possession of Magic Markers, which
3 are within the definition of graffiti
4 instrument, to use as a basis for eliminating
5 the confidentiality, eliminating the focus of
6 youthful offender status -- which is to try to
7 enable young people who commit bad acts when
8 they're very young to get into society without
9 the stigma of being labeled as a felon from a
10 very young age.
11 This is a good public policy that
12 has worked. We're always sorting out the
13 nuances of it. We want to protect society
14 from truly dangerous people. I am at a loss
15 to see why someone found guilty, when they are
16 very young, of possession of a Magic Marker
17 should fall into the category of those from
18 whom society needs protection. I would much
19 rather focus on people who commit violent
20 crimes.
21 I'm voting no on this,
22 Mr. President. I think it's a poorly
23 conceived idea. I realize that in some parts
24 of the state there's a lot of public outcry
25 about graffiti, but this is not the way to

(518) 371-8910
3669
1 address that problem.

2 I urge everybody to vote no.
4 Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative.
5 Announce the results, please.
8 Senators Duane, Marcellino, Montgomery,
9 Morahan, Perkins, Schneiderman, Serrano and
10 Thompson.
11 Ayes, 50. Nays, 8.
13 bill is passed.
15 1873, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6835B,
16 an act to establish a blue ribbon commission.
22 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3670
1 bill is passed.
3 1874, by Senator Adams, Senate Print 7036, an

6 the last section.
10 the roll.
13 1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the
14 negative.
16 bill is passed.
18 1875, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 7049, an
19 act to amend the County Law.

(518) 371-8910
3671
1 the roll.
5 bill is passed.

8 the Assembly Weprin, Assembly Print Number
9 9997, an act to amend the Economic Development
10 Law.
16 the roll.
20 bill is passed.
23 act to amend the Public Health Law.

(518) 371-8910
3672
4 the roll.
8 bill is passed.

11 the Assembly Lifton, Assembly Print Number
12 11052, an act relating to increasing
13 availability.
19 the roll.
23 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3673
1 the Assembly Magee, Assembly Print Number
2 10573A, an act relating to increasing
3 availability.
5 the last section.
9 the roll.
13 bill is passed.
15 1882, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7807A,
16 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
22 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3674
1 bill is passed.
4 an act to amend the Local Finance Law.
11 the roll.
15 bill is passed.

24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3675
3 bill is passed.
5 1887, by Senator Young --
7 please.
9 bill is laid aside.
12 the Assembly Magee, Assembly Print Number
13 10771, an act to authorize.
19 the roll.
22 1. Senator Bonacic recorded in the negative.
24 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3676
2 the Assembly Gabryszak, Assembly Print Number
4 of 1997.
6 the last section.
10 the roll.
14 bill is passed.
16 1890, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 8294A,
17 an act to amend the Insurance Law.

23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3677
2 bill is passed.
4 1891, substituted earlier by Member of the
5 Assembly Wright, Assembly Print Number 10087,
7 2001, amending the Election Law.
9 the last section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
20 Print 8446, an act to amend the Insurance Law.

(518) 371-8910
3678
1 the roll.
4 1. Senator L. Krueger recorded in the
5 negative.
7 bill is passed.
8 Senator Skelos, that completes the
9 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
11 Mr. President. I believe we have several
12 motions to be made at this time.
13 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Motions
15 and resolutions.
16 Senator Seward.
17 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, on behalf
18 of Senator Lanza, on page number 31 I offer
19 the following amendments to Calendar Number
20 887, Senate Print Number 7353A, and ask that
21 the bill retain its place on the Third Reading
22 Calendar.
24 amendments are received and adopted, and the
25 bill will retain its place on the Third

(518) 371-8910
3679
1 Reading Calendar.
2 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
3 on behalf of Senator Bruno, I wish to call up
4 his bill, Print Number 8259, recalled from the
5 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
9 1727, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 8259, an
10 act authorizing the County of Saratoga.
11 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I
13 bill was passed.
18 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I
22 Senator Little.
23 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 On page 68 I offer the following

(518) 371-8910
3680
1 amendments to Calendar Number 1879, Senate
2 Print 7282B, and ask that said bill retain its
3 place on Third Reading Calendar.

5 Senator, the amendments are received and
6 adopted, and the bill will retain its place on
7 the Third Reading Calendar.
8 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you.
9 Mr. President I ask for a
10 reconsideration of --
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Excuse
12 me, Senator Little.
13 If I could just ask once again, the
14 Senate is in session and that conversations
15 should go outside of the chamber. Thank you.
16 Senator Little.
17 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 I wish to call up Senator Maziarz's
20 bill, Senate Print Number 7776, which is at
21 the desk, and ask for a reconsideration of the
22 vote.

(518) 371-8910
3681
1 1441, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7776,
2 an act to amend the Public Service Law.
3 SENATOR LITTLE: I now move to
4 reconsider the vote by which this bill was
5 passed and ask that the bill be restored to
6 the order of third reading.

11 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. And
12 the bill is restored to the third reading, and
13 I would now ask you to star the bill.
15 Restored to the Third Reading Calendar, the
16 bill is starred, it is so ordered.
18 Mr. President, on page 48 I offer
19 the following amendments to Calendar Number
20 1285, Senate Print Number 3248A, and ask that
21 said bill retain its place on the Third
22 Reading Calendar, on behalf of Senator
23 Fuschillo.
25 amendments are received, and the bill will

(518) 371-8910
3682
1 retain its place on the Third Reading
2 Calendar.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Thank
5 you, Senator.
6 Senator Rath.
7 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, can
8 we please hear the reading of the
9 controversial calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: We will

11 read the controversial calendar.
12 If the Secretary would please ring
13 the bells and members come to the chamber so
14 that we can do the controversial calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
18 614, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2968A, an
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:
21 Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
23 Explanation, Senator Seward.
24 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly,
25 Mr. President.

(518) 371-8910
3683
1 This legislation would permit all
2 HMOs and insurers in New York State to offer
3 the high-deductible health plans that are
4 coupled with health savings accounts. These
5 plans became available in the year 2003, when
6 the federal government passed legislation that
7 authorized these types of policies to exist.
8 However, New York State law
9 currently prohibits these high-deductible
10 plans and HSAs from being offered by the HMOs
11 or in the individual market. So today we have
12 a situation where some of the plans are able
13 to offer this option to their clients;

14 however, not all. This legislation would
15 allow HMOs to offer this product, and also
16 those that are marketing to the individual
17 segment of our market.
18 These types of policies, on
19 average, cost about 40 percent less than
20 traditional policies and, with that savings,
21 that frees up money for both an employer and
22 the employee, should they wish to contribute
23 to the HSA, to cover any medical expenses that
24 they may incur that leads up to that
25 deductible amount.

(518) 371-8910
3684
1 So this is a piece of legislation
2 which will simply offer one additional option
3 to New Yorkers in terms of being able to
4 obtain health insurance.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Krueger.
7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
8 Mr. President. If the sponsor would please
9 yield.
11 Seward, will you yield?
12 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly.
14 Krueger.
15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 We've debated this bill before,

17 Senator Seward and I. And, Senator, I was
18 curious, have you seen the new General
19 Accounting Office study from May of this year
20 showing that the health savings accounts are
21 functioning as tax shelters but not actually
22 being used by anyone to expand healthcare
23 coverage or to serve lower-income or working
24 people in health insurance?
25 SENATOR SEWARD: Well,

(518) 371-8910
3685
1 Mr. President, I haven't read that particular
2 study, but I do know that I would question --
3 I have a couple of reactions to just the
4 statement you've made, however.
5 Number one, I have heard from a
6 number of small businesses in particular that
7 have told me that they have offered this
8 option and it is working.
9 And also, I would further point out
10 that I recognize that this particular product
11 is not for everyone. It simply adds an
12 additional option to those who wish to pursue
13 this type of product for their health
14 insurance. I think it's been a very positive
15 addition to the menu of options that are
16 offered in New York State when it comes to
17 health insurance.
19 Mr. President, on the bill.

21 Krueger, on the bill.
23 I thank the sponsor.
24 So there is a new report from the
25 federal government's accountability office,

(518) 371-8910
3686
1 the GAO: Health savings accounts,
2 participation increasingly was more common
3 among individuals with higher incomes. I
4 misspoke before, it was not a May '08 report,
5 it was an April '08 report.
6 And the findings of that report --
7 and it follows up on an earlier GAO report
8 from two years earlier -- was that the average
9 income of health savings account contributors
10 was $139,000, almost double other tax filers
11 who use other forms of employment-related
12 health insurance.
13 The GAO report on HSAs highlighted
14 their continuing concern that what these
15 accounts are actually being used for is tax
16 sheltering of income by high-income people and
17 not, in fact, being used by people to provide
18 health insurance or health coverage for
19 themselves.
20 Again, the findings from the
21 federal GAO report are that HSA participants
22 are disproportionately high-income, that HSA

23 participants contribute much more to the
24 accounts than other participants, but they're
25 not using them for healthcare, they're using

(518) 371-8910
3687
1 them for tax shelters. And that many of the
2 participants appear to view this primarily as
3 a tax shelter rather than an out-of-pocket
4 healthcare cost.
5 The report further goes on to
6 discuss the fact that the types of employers
7 who are using these high-deductible health
8 insurance plans did not contribute to their
9 workers' HSAs. And in fact, we have seen
10 through the federal studies in '05, '06, and
11 '07 that employers are less likely to
12 contribute to their employees' health
13 insurance programs if they have an HSA plan.
14 So as I have argued in the past, I
15 believe the sponsor and I both want health
16 insurance options that will cover more people.
17 We want health insurance options that are
18 affordable. The president of the United
19 States has argued for these plans, I believe
20 now since he got into office, and as a result
21 there have been studies done by the federal
22 government, and none of them justify our
23 moving down this road.
24 I think that the research has been
25 done, the findings are clear that this is not

(518) 371-8910
3688
1 the direction New York State ought to go in
2 expanding health coverage. I would love for
3 us to be talking universal healthcare today,
4 or expansion of -- even a broader discussion
5 of the bill that I think passed a little while
6 ago to ensure more people can get into Healthy
7 New York insurance or the Family Health Plus
8 insurance or even a state add-on to the
9 Medicare program for younger people.
10 There are lots of good directions
11 we ought to go in healthcare in this state.
12 There are people begging us for better
13 alternatives for them to be covered by health
14 insurance and for it to be affordable.
15 I know this is a one-house bill
16 again, but just for the record, this is not
17 the direction we ought to go. And every year
18 we look at this, we have more data from other
19 states and from, thank you, the federal
20 government telling us that we should not go
21 down this road.
22 So I'll be voting no and urging my
23 colleagues to vote no, Mr. President. Thank
24 you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank

(518) 371-8910
3689
1 you, Senator Krueger.

2 Senator Klein.
3 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, on
4 the bill.
6 Klein, on the bill.
7 SENATOR KLEIN: I want to echo
8 what Senator Krueger has said.
9 Here we are trying to solve the
10 healthcare crisis, making sure that everyone
11 has access to health insurance. What we also
12 need to look at is the problem of people who
13 are paying good money, hard-earned money, for
14 health insurance and not getting what they
15 paid for.
16 My office released a study last
17 month where we looked at the problem of all
18 the healthcare insurance companies, the HMOs
19 that presently insure people in New York
20 State, and we looked to see how they cover
21 what's known as single-source drugs.
22 Single-source drugs are drugs that are usually
23 under patent. They're specific drugs,
24 name-brand drugs. They tend to be more
25 expensive than other drugs.

(518) 371-8910
3690
1 And one of the things we're
2 finding, time and time again, is when a doctor
3 prescribes such a drug, most of these drugs
4 are not covered by the HMO. And if they are

5 covered, they're forcing the client or the
6 consumer to jump through hoops, to get all
7 types of permission to first use a generic
8 drug before they can use a name-brand drug --
9 and this is after a doctor has already
10 prescribed the specific medication that they
11 know works for their patient.
12 So I think what we need to be doing
13 is changing our present healthcare system in
14 relation to HMOs in New York State. I think
15 we need a very, very simple system. Sometimes
16 we try to complicate things, but I think the
17 way we really solve this problem is make it
18 rather easy. If a doctor, let's say,
19 prescribes a specific medication for a
20 patient, they know that that drug works well
21 for their patient without any side effects,
22 that's the drug that the HMO should pay for.
23 And if there is a need for a copayment, it
24 should be a very reasonable copayment.
25 Right now I'm hearing from doctors

(518) 371-8910
3691
1 time and time again that they lost control
2 over their ability to do what's right for
3 their patient. And that's just wrong. If a
4 doctor prescribes a specific medication, the
5 HMO should pay for it. Healthcare decisions
6 should be made rather simple between a doctor
7 and a patient, not by some bureaucrat sitting

8 behind a desk at an HMO.
9 One of the things we looked at as
10 well is specific drugs, like Lipitor. And
11 this is going to be a problem, I believe, in
12 the future, because Lipitor is about to go
13 off-patent, which means the market is going to
14 be flooded with various generics.
15 And the problem is, Lipitor is a
16 specific class of drug that helps people with
17 high blood pressure, and the HMOs are going to
18 be prescribing all of these generics because
19 it's just cheaper. I'm not saying a generic
20 shouldn't be something that can be recommended
21 by a physician. But if a generic is proven
22 not to work for a patient, then the name-brand
23 drug or the specific single-source drug is
24 what the HMO should pay for.
25 So again, I think we should be

(518) 371-8910
3692
1 doing a lot more than this bill does today,
2 because we're truly in a crisis situation, not
3 only for those who have no health insurance,
4 but even those who are paying good money to
5 have healthcare coverage and get the
6 prescription drugs they need.
7 So I vote no on this legislation.
9 you, Senator Klein.
10 Senator Schneiderman.
12 Mr. President. On the bill.
14 Schneiderman, on the bill.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: This
16 almost makes me feel as though we're enacting
17 a bill that would make it all right to sell a
18 quart of milk that actually was filled with
19 half milk, half water.
20 This is something that waters down
21 healthcare coverage and opens the door to
22 people paying money for plans that really will
23 not give them the coverage that they need
24 should they have a serious problem.
25 A lot of employers in other states

(518) 371-8910
3693
1 who have attempted to use this sort of a
2 program have in fact offered this more or less
3 as a bait and switch. People think they're
4 getting more than they are, they don't get the
5 coverage that they need.
6 And I would urge all of you to
7 remember that this is largely the fault of the
8 Senate that we're in this situation, because
9 in 1999 the Senate Majority allowed the
10 statute requiring approval for increases in
11 health insurance premiums to expire. I mean,
12 the State Insurance Department doesn't have
13 the leverage they used to have.

14 So what do we come out with? We
15 come out with these bad plans, these
16 watered-down plans that don't give people the
17 coverage they need. This is not the direction
18 our state should be taking.
19 I'm going to be voting no, and I
20 look forward in the months ahead to us coming
21 up with real solutions to the healthcare
22 crisis in this state instead of just providing
23 watered-down milk.
24 Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Is

(518) 371-8910
3694
1 there any other Senator wishing to be heard?
2 Debate is closed. The Secretary
3 will ring the bell.
6 act shall take effect January 1, 2009.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
8 the roll.
11 Breslin, to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 I fully appreciate and respect the
15 opinion of most of the members of the
16 Democratic conference on this bill.

17 However, I look at it from a
18 different vantage point, and hopefully not a
19 naive one, that on any given day we have close
20 to 3 million uninsured in this state and
21 5 million in any given year. And that this
22 bill, this high-end health insurance bill,
23 gives an opportunity for small-businessmen who
24 might not otherwise be able to provide
25 insurance to their employees to be able to

(518) 371-8910
3695
1 reach out and bring them under an umbrella.
2 Is it a Band-Aid? Yes, it's a
3 Band-Aid. But if we can insure some
4 additional folks with health insurance, I have
5 to support it. And as we move towards --
6 hopefully, sooner rather than later -- a
7 universal health plan, we should provide those
8 opportunities for employers when they're given
9 an opportunity to provide, again, Band-Aid
10 plans which allow their employees to maybe get
11 to a doctor or get to an emergency room, to
12 have crisis-intervention healthcare.
13 Is it good? It's not great, but
14 it's better than not having it.
15 So for those reasons, I vote aye.
17 Breslin to be recorded in the affirmative.
18 Senator Seward, to explain his
19 vote.
20 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, thank you,
21 Mr. President. I also rise in support of this
22 legislation.
23 Certainly everyone in this chamber,
24 I'm sure, wants to see everyone covered in
25 New York State when it comes to health

(518) 371-8910
3696
1 insurance, to not have any uninsured in
2 New York.
3 And I'm very pleased that in the
4 last year or so the administration, through
5 the Insurance Department and the Department of
6 Health, has been going around the state having
7 hearings, gathering testimony about how
8 New York State could best achieve universal
9 coverage for all New Yorkers.
10 However, we are not sitting by and
11 waiting for this report, which was due
12 May 31st and now it may not be until sometime
13 this fall or even the end of the year. These
14 are complex, complicated issues. To our
15 credit, this Legislature, working with the
16 Governor, has not been sitting idly by,
17 waiting for a report, because in this year's
18 budget we established a new low-cost
19 prescription program, we expanded Child Health
20 Plus to include more young people. We are
21 moving forward to close the session here with
22 an expansion of the Healthy New York program.

23 And we just passed, earlier today,
24 legislation which I believe is going to become
25 law which gives another low-cost option for

(518) 371-8910
3697
1 young people getting out of college, no longer
2 covered by their parents' insurance, before
3 they get that first job or get their own
4 coverage, to fill that gap.
5 This legislation before us, as
6 Senator Breslin has described very well,
7 provides just one more option to help people
8 be able to obtain health insurance.
9 I think it's a very worthy piece of
10 legislation, and that's why it's sponsored by
11 the Farm Bureau, the Business Council, and
12 many other groups who are seeking a way to
13 afford health insurance for themselves and
14 their employees.
15 I vote aye.
17 Seward to be recorded in the affirmative.
21 Senators Dilan, Duane, C. Johnson, Klein,
22 L. Krueger, Montgomery, Onorato, Perkins,
23 Sabini, Sampson, Savino, Schneiderman,
24 Stewart-Cousins and Thompson. Also Senator
25 Smith. Also Senator Serrano. Also Senator

(518) 371-8910
3698
1 Stavisky.
2 Absent from voting: Senators
3 Adams, Hassell-Thompson and Parker.
4 Ayes, 41. Nays, 17.
6 bill is passed.
8 1845, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 8457,
9 an act to amend the Elder Law.
11 Smith.
12 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you,
13 Mr. President. I believe I have an amendment
14 at the desk, and I am asking that the
15 amendment be waived and I ask to be heard on
16 the amendment.
18 you, Senator.
19 Yes, Senator Smith, I do have the
20 amendment. I have reviewed that amendment
21 with counsel, and this amendment appears to be
22 identical to Senate Bill 8153A, which lacks a
23 home-rule message, which is necessary. So the
24 amendment is out of order.
25 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President.

(518) 371-8910
3699

2 Smith.
3 SENATOR SMITH: This is being
4 offered not as a bill, this is an amendment to
5 the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I
7 understand, Senator Smith. However, it is the
8 content that controls the legislation. This
9 content is identical to the bill that I had
10 identified previously, 8153A.
11 Under Article 9, Section 2 of the
12 Constitution, Senator Smith, those issues
13 dealing with property and affairs of
14 localities do require a home-rule message, and
15 this does that. So accordingly, it's
16 identical to the bill and deals with that
17 content.
18 So as a result of that, the
19 amendment is not in order.
20 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President,
21 this particular amendment was filed prior to
22 this, the other day, and was ruled actually to
23 be not germane. This is not a bill. I
24 understand you're citing Section 9, but this
25 again is an amendment to a bill that's being

(518) 371-8910
3700
1 offered by Senator Maltese.
2 I think Senator Maltese clearly
3 understands the importance of this issue, and
4 perhaps you may want to engage the sponsor of

5 the bill and actually request that you engage
6 the sponsor of the bill and have him speak to
7 the fact that this is --
9 Smith, this is not a ruling of germaneness, it
10 is a ruling on the content, what is required.
11 As a result of that, this issue
12 is -- as I indicated earlier, the amendment is
13 unacceptable because of its identical nature
14 to the bill that has been previously
15 identified. And it is governed by the home
16 rule procedures accordingly with the
17 Constitution, as I have cited to you,
18 Article 9, Section 2 specifically of the
19 Constitution.
20 SENATOR SMITH: Right. And I
21 respect your knowledge of the rules,
22 Mr. President.
23 But I respectfully submit that this
24 particular amendment that I am putting forward
25 is a matter of amending procedure, not

(518) 371-8910
3701
1 regarding the bill. I understand where you
2 are, and I understand what you are ruling on.
3 But again, this is procedurally what we're
4 trying to do, not a matter of dealing with the
5 bill specifically.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: But the
7 ruling is on the substance, Senator Smith,

8 because we're not dealing with procedure now.
9 The amendment requires a certain act. And as
10 a result of that, it is not a matter of
11 germaneness but, again, on the content. So as
12 a result of that, the amendment is
13 unacceptable.
15 I --
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: That is
17 the ruling of the chair, Senator Smith.
18 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I
19 am asking for us to be heard on a procedure,
20 not on the amendment per se, which,
21 Mr. President, we are allowed, as you know,
22 according to the rules. All I'm saying, we
23 have a procedure that we're looking for, and
24 that's all we're asking. I'm not asking to do
25 anything more than that.

(518) 371-8910
3702
1 So I understand what you're citing,
2 but you're actually changing the rules with
3 respect to what I am actually asking. It is
4 not germane to what I'm asking.
6 Smith, I think, though, that we're ruling on
7 an amendment that you are asking for a waiver
8 of the reading of an amendment. We are
9 telling you that the amendment is
10 unacceptable, for the regulations that I have

11 cited earlier with the Constitution.
12 So the amendment is out of order.
13 So accordingly, you cannot be heard on an
14 amendment -- we cannot waive a reading on an
15 amendment that is out of order.
17 let me be clear. Well, we can appeal the
18 ruling, but that's -- I just want to be clear.
19 So what you are saying,
20 Mr. President, is that the amendment that I am
21 asking to be heard on, which deals with the
22 modernization of the NYCHA homes, the senior
23 citizen centers, which we think at this point
24 is actually going to be closed, based on the
25 fact that Senator Maltese's bill --

(518) 371-8910
3703
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President.
2 Mr. President, point of order.
4 Padavan.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: I believe the
6 chair -- you have ruled on whether or not this
7 amendment can be pursued by virtue of its
8 lacking a home rule message. Your ruling has
9 been challenged.
10 Therefore, let us vote on that and
11 not debate the content of an amendment that's
12 no longer permitted to be submitted to this
13 body for consideration.

15 you, Senator Padavan. Your point of order is
16 well-taken.
17 Senator Smith, my ruling stands.
19 appreciate Senator Padavan's eagerness to
20 engage himself in this dialogue, but
21 unfortunately you should rule him out of
22 order, because this is a dialogue between you
23 and I.
25 Smith, my ruling --

(518) 371-8910
3704
1 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: -- and
3 as I indicated to you earlier, you're again
4 dealing with the affairs of property, and that
5 is under the jurisdiction of the locality.
6 Property and affairs of a locality require
7 home rules, Senator Smith. And that is what
8 you are dealing with. So the ruling stands.
9 Are you asking now for an appeal of
10 the ruling?
12 not am I asking for an appeal of the ruling,
13 but I understand you understand that we need a
14 home rule message for this.
15 Now, I don't know, Mr. President,
16 if at this point it is in order for us to move

17 to be at ease so we can get an actual ruling
18 on this. But you tell me, Mr. President.
20 Padavan.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
22 I understand you issued a ruling based on
23 counsel and your understanding of the
24 requirements of a home rule message.
25 Now, I've been in this chamber

(518) 371-8910
3705
1 36 years. I don't recall a debate between the
2 chair and a member on any issue. So either
3 your ruling is being challenged and should be
4 acted upon accordingly or the amendment
5 withdrawn, one or the other.
6 This debate is inconsistent with
7 the rules of this house.
9 you, Senator Padavan.
10 Senator Smith, let me reiterate
11 that I have made a rule on the amendment.
12 Short of an appeal -- you've indicated that
13 you do not want to appeal the decision of the
14 chair, so accordingly we will move on to the
15 bill.
17 still reserve the right to appeal --
19 Smith, do you wish to be heard on the bill?

21 still reserve the right to appeal the ruling
22 on the amendment.
23 What I'm asking for is
24 clarification. Senator Padavan is not the
25 president of the Senate right now; you are.

(518) 371-8910
3706
2 Correct. But I have given you my ruling --
3 SENATOR SMITH: I am not --
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: -- and
5 you continue to challenge my ruling.
6 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President --
7 Mr. President --
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I have
9 given you a ruling, Senator Smith.
10 SENATOR SMITH: Did you not say
11 that I had the right to appeal the decision?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I did,
13 and you indicated you did not have a desire
14 to.
16 Mr. President, I have not told you whether or
17 not I'm appealing your ruling.
18 What I'm trying to do is get an
19 understanding of what you are telling me. I
20 am not as intelligent as you are; it takes me
21 a lot longer to understand the facts. And I
22 believe, as one colleague to another, you owe

23 me the respect to explain to me why you are
24 ruling that way in terms of needing a home
25 rule in Section 9. That's all I'm asking.

(518) 371-8910
3707
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I think
2 that --
3 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Padavan is
4 trying to protect you, for what reason I don't
5 know.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There's
7 no one trying to protect, Senator Smith.
8 I've indicated several times now
9 how and why we made the ruling of the chair,
10 and we have been very clear about that, citing
11 sections of the Constitution, talking about
12 the content which controls, talking to you
13 about the purview within the affairs of the
14 property. And the affairs are that dealing
15 with a locality; therefore, they require a
16 home rule, as in accordance with counsel.
17 So I have specifically given you an
18 answer and have ruled on this, Senator Smith.
19 So short of an appeal, we will move forward on
20 the bill.
21 Senator Maltese, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, we
23 will appeal the ruling of the chair.
25 Maltese, why do you rise?

(518) 371-8910
3708
1 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes,
2 Mr. President, since it's my bill, I would
3 respectfully request that possibly the points
4 that my colleague would wish to make can be
5 made during the debate on the initial bill.
6 And all aspects of that debate can be covered
7 at that time, including the proposals that
8 would be made by Senator Smith and others at
9 this time.
11 I'd like to appeal the ruling of the chair.
13 you, Senator Smith. Senator Smith is asking
14 for an appeal of the ruling of the chair.
15 SENATOR CONNOR: Slow roll call,
16 Mr. President.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Slow roll
18 call.
20 Gentlemen, may we have order in the house,
21 please.
22 I am reviewing now the request to
23 appeal the ruling of the chair. The
24 indication of the interest and desire for a
25 slow roll call is not eligible, under the

(518) 371-8910
3709
1 rules of the Senate, under actions of bills

2 and concurrent resolutions and nominations,
3 which are Article 8, Section 6(B) only allows
4 for the slow roll call. So in this case a
5 slow roll call will not be allowed.
6 The negatives will please raise
7 their hands.
8 SENATOR CONNOR: Point of order,
9 Mr. President.
11 Connor, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR CONNOR: We had a slow
13 roll call a week ago on a ruling of the chair.
15 Connor, that was done on consent, by unanimous
16 consent.
17 There does not appear to be
18 unanimous consent in the chamber today, so
19 your point is not well-taken.
20 I have cited to --
21 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President,
22 you're entitled to your opinion, but not your
23 own facts. There was no consent.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: These
25 are not opinions, Senator Connor. I am citing

(518) 371-8910
3710
1 to you specific rules of engagement here in
2 the chamber.
3 Senator Duane, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR DUANE: Because,

5 Mr. President, I was actually sitting in the
6 chair. There was no call for consent. We
7 went immediately to a slow roll when it was
8 requested.
9 I think if you took another look at
10 the rules, you would see that that's totally
11 appropriate.
12 And as has been stated, a precedent
13 was set, and to change the rules at this point
14 would be really a breach of trust on how we
15 operate in this chamber.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: That
17 is -- unfortunately, Senator Duane, that is
18 not accurate. I have told you that the
19 previous ruling was done on unanimous consent.
20 That does not exist today. I have cited the
21 rules that are present here, talking to you
22 about Rule 8, Section 6(B).
23 So as a result of that, the ruling
24 stands. I would ask that all those who
25 disagree who want to overrule the chair,

(518) 371-8910
3711
1 please raise their hand.
2 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President --
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: That is
4 the ruling of the chair. Senator Duane,
5 you're out of order.
6 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
7 since there's a dispute, may we have a reading

8 of the transcript of that day, Mr. President?
9 I think you will see and hear that there --
10 I'm sorry that you are mistaken about that,
11 but if you -- if we have a reading of the
12 transcript, you will see that there was no
13 call for consent, we went right to a slow roll
14 call.
15 And I'm entitled to hear that.
16 We're all entitled to hear that.
18 Duane, the chair has made its ruling.
19 I will now ask that all those who
20 are opposed and would like to have a
21 reconsideration of appeal of the chair, please
22 raise your hands.
24 Mr. President --
25 SENATOR SMITH: Point of order,

(518) 371-8910
3712
1 Mr. President.
3 Maziarz, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Excuse me.
5 Excuse me, Mr. President. Can we just have a
6 very brief recess.
7 Mr. President.
9 Maziarz.
10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Would the

11 Senate please stand in recess for two minutes.
13 Senate stands at ease.
15 ease at 1:05 p.m.)
17 at 1:09 p.m.)
19 Senate will come to order. The Senate will
20 please come to order.
21 Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: It's my
23 understanding that the Minority has offered up
24 an amendment. The Majority has said that it's
25 out of order because a home-rule message is

(518) 371-8910
3713
1 required. I believe the Minority is appealing
2 the ruling of the chair.
3 And I believe we're on a slow roll
4 call now?
5 SENATOR SMITH: No --
7 Skelos --
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Have you ruled
9 on the amendment?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I have.
11 The slow roll call will not be
12 accepted. I have cited the rationale behind
13 that, and there is no precedent in this case

14 because there was no objection registered
15 during the last time.
16 There has been an objection
17 registered today, Senator Duane. So,
18 accordingly, the ruling stands. The ruling of
19 the chair stands.
20 SENATOR SABINI: Mr. President --
22 Sabini, you're out of order. Please sit down.
23 SENATOR SABINI: -- point of
24 order.

(518) 371-8910
3714
1 Skelos has the floor. Do you yield to Senator
2 Sabini, Senator Skelos?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: No, I do not.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Okay.
5 Senator Sabini, please take your seat.
6 Senator Skelos, you may continue.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could now
8 go to the main bill.
9 SENATOR SABINI: Mr. President,
10 point of order.
12 Sabini, on your point of order.
13 SENATOR SABINI: Who objected to
14 the slow roll call?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Today?
16 SENATOR SABINI: Yes.

17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Slow
18 roll call? A member of the Majority
19 indicated, I think Senator Maltese may have.
20 He wanted to discuss the bill.
21 SENATOR SABINI: I did not hear
22 that.
24 Paterson did -- Senator Padavan did. Excuse
25 me.

(518) 371-8910
3715
1 SENATOR SABINI: Senator Paterson
2 or Senator Padavan?
4 Padavan. Mr. Chairman, Senator Padavan did.
5 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President.
7 Duane.
8 SENATOR DUANE: I don't believe
9 that you have responded to the request for a
10 reading of the Journal of last week when we
11 had a similar situation.
13 Duane is out of order. We're on the bill.
14 I've made my ruling. The ruling stands as is.
15 We will now return to the motion to
16 overrule --
18 did you rule --

20 Duane, you're out of order.
21 SENATOR DUANE: Did you rule on
22 the --
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: -- on
24 the motion to overrule --

(518) 371-8910
3716
1 point of --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: -- to
3 overrule that of the --
4 SENATOR DUANE: -- point of --
6 Duane, please take your seat.
7 SENATOR DUANE: A point of
8 clarification. Did you rule --
10 Duane, please take your seat.
11 SENATOR DUANE: -- that you are
12 not permitting the reading of the Journal from
13 last week? Did you make a ruling on that,
14 Mr. President?
16 Duane, I did. I just said that your request
17 is out of order at this time because we are on
18 the bill.
19 SENATOR DUANE: Well, I would
20 challenge -- I would challenge that,
21 Mr. President. A point of order is always in
22 order.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We
24 cannot overrule two things at the same time.
25 We can take that up after we take the first

(518) 371-8910
3717
1 vote if you would like to, Senator Duane.
2 Currently the motion before this
3 body -- gentlemen --
4 SENATOR DUANE: A point of order
5 takes precedent over everything else.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Your
7 point of order is not well-taken. Please take
8 your seat.
9 SENATOR DUANE: There's no such
10 thing as a point of order not being well-taken
11 when there's no response on the merits.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I
13 didn't give you a response on that, Senator
14 Duane. I told you that you were out of order.
15 We're speaking on the bill right now. That's
16 your motion.
17 SENATOR DUANE: Then I'm
18 challenging that.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: That
20 challenge will have to take secondary to
21 the -- there is a challenge to the rule of the
22 chair right now. Are you withdrawing that
23 ruling, then, that Senator Smith made? Is he
24 withdrawing that motion?

(518) 371-8910
3718
2 Duane, is he withdrawing that motion? Do you
3 speak for him?
4 SENATOR DUANE: How are we
5 dealing with that motion?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Right
7 now we are dealing with that -- the motion was
8 on whether or not you should overrule the
9 ruling of the chair.
10 SENATOR SMITH: Point of order,
11 Mr. President.
13 Smith.
14 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. Can I
15 withdraw my motion?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You
17 want to withdraw your motion?
18 SENATOR SMITH: I withdraw my
19 motion.
21 amendment is withdrawn.
22 Senator Bruno.
23 SENATOR BRUNO: It's the Senator
24 Maltese bill that's on the floor?

(518) 371-8910
3719
1 Correct, Senator Bruno.

2 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we lay it
3 aside presently, Senator? Do you mind laying
4 this bill aside presently?
5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
6 lay my bill aside temporarily.
8 Calendar 1845 is laid aside temporarily.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 And I would, with the concurrence
12 of our colleagues, continue with the calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Without
14 objection, the calendar will continue.
17 1887, by Senator Young, Senate Print 8169A, an
18 act to amend the Environmental Conservation
19 Law.
20 SENATOR SABINI: Explanation.
22 Explanation, Senator Young.
23 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes, this bill
24 was requested by the Department of
25 Environmental Conservation. It establishes

(518) 371-8910
3720
1 statewide requirements for oil wells and
2 horizontal gas wells to access natural gas
3 resources throughout the Southern Tier of
4 Western New York and across the entire

5 Southern Tier east.
6 Basically, this would allow the
7 proper management, it would streamline things
8 for DEC to be able to get things moving. It
9 does not change whether or not you can access
10 and drill for oil and gas right now in
11 New York State; you can do this. This helps
12 streamlined the permitting process.
14 Sabini.
16 would the sponsor yield for a question.
18 Young, will you yield for a question?
19 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes,
20 Mr. President.
22 Sabini.
24 through you, would the sponsor tell me what
25 counties are going to be affected by this

(518) 371-8910
3721
1 piece of legislation?
3 Young.
4 SENATOR YOUNG: It's all of the
5 Southern Tier. It's not listed by counties,
6 but it's Broome, Tioga, Sullivan, and
7 Delaware, in addition to Allegany, Cattaraugus

8 and Chautauqua counties.
10 if the sponsor would continue to yield.
12 Young, would you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes.
15 Sabini.
16 SENATOR SABINI: Through you,
17 Mr. President, would the sponsor tell me how
18 people get their drinking water in those
19 counties?
21 Young.
22 SENATOR YOUNG: Well, people get
23 their drinking water in those counties the
24 same way everyone else does -- through the
25 different water systems, through wells,

(518) 371-8910
3722
1 through surface water, depending on what
2 system is in place in those particular
3 communities.
5 if the sponsor could continue to yield.
7 Young, do you yield?
10 Sabini.
11 SENATOR SABINI: Actually, I
12 don't get my drinking water when I'm home that
13 way at all, I get it through the Cat/Del
14 Reservoir system. Is part of that New York
15 City Watershed area in this -- the area that
16 would be affected by this legislation?
18 Young.
19 SENATOR YOUNG: No, it is not.
21 if the sponsor would continue to yield.
24 Young yields.

(518) 371-8910
3723
1 Mr. President, my understanding is that the
2 Delaware River Valley part of the -- and I
3 always mispronounce this -- the Shawangunk
4 Ridge, I believe it's called, is part of this
5 which is in the New York City Watershed area,
6 is it not?
7 SENATOR YOUNG: Senator Sabini,
8 one of the things that I want to stress is
9 that this bill does not change anything that
10 can occur right now. That this is a
11 departmental bill from DEC, it will have no
12 effect on water sources in New York State.
13 There has been no incident of it affecting any

14 water sources in New York State.
15 And so I believe that your line of
16 questioning is not relevant to the focus of
17 the bill.
19 if the sponsor could continue to yield.
22 Young yields.
24 Mr. President, can the sponsor describe to the
25 house what the term "fracking" or fracturing

(518) 371-8910
3724
1 drilling is?
2 SENATOR YOUNG: Basically, what
3 it does is it breaks up rock, and there is
4 water that is injected to recover the oil and
5 gas.
6 However, I would stress again there
7 has never been any source of contamination
8 that I'm aware of -- if Senator Sabini has it,
9 I'd love to hear about it. But that this is a
10 safe process, it's a new technology, it's been
11 proven.
12 And I believe very strongly if the
13 Department of Environmental Conservation, if
14 it was a problem, they would not allow this
15 process in New York State.

17 through you, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
21 Young yields.
22 SENATOR SABINI: I'm delighted at
23 the newfound faith in the DEC by Senator
24 Young, since I've heard otherwise in the past.
25 I'm glad we've had this epiphany.

(518) 371-8910
3725
1 Mr. President, would the sponsor
2 tell me what is in this water that's injected
3 to get the gas out of the wells, what
4 chemicals?
5 SENATOR YOUNG: You know, Senator
6 Sabini, I'm not sure right at the moment. But
7 they are not qualified, I believe, by DEC as
8 hazardous materials. That's the understanding
9 that I have.
11 on the bill.
13 Sabini, on the bill.
14 SENATOR SABINI: Well, Senator
15 Young is right, she doesn't know. None of us
16 know, because those chemicals are protected
17 under federal law. It is suspected by many
18 people that one of the chemicals that's mixed
19 with that water -- besides sand -- is

20 strychnine, not something I would think the
21 sponsor or anyone else would want in our wells
22 or in our water supply. That's a carcinogen.
23 With regard to past experience as
24 to whether or not this technology has
25 contaminated anything, we don't really know

(518) 371-8910
3726
1 yet, because the technology is very new.
2 I can tell you that in the case of
3 the Binghamton-Johnson City water treatment
4 facility, they're talking about bringing in a
5 million gallons of wastewater that treatment
6 plants may not be able to handle. That's a
7 little frightening.
8 Water treatment plants have
9 capacity, they're built with capacity. And
10 the millions of gallons of water that will be
11 used to fracture this gas out of the Marcellus
12 shale is a lot more water than the wastewater
13 treatment plants are able to handle.
14 Now, the Pennsylvania Department of
15 Environmental Protection met with 150 people
16 from the gas and oil industry just the other
17 day to make sure that Pennsylvania companies
18 understand that there are laws governing
19 drilling. And this kind of meeting came after
20 operators in Pennsylvania illegally diverted
21 streams from their streambeds and spilled
22 diesel fuel at sites.

23 There are farmers upstate who have
24 already noticed that wastewater from this
25 fracturing is being deposited onto roadways

(518) 371-8910
3727
1 that spill into local water supplies and
2 wells.
3 I understand that there's a lot of
4 money in this industry of fracturing; I
5 understand that. And in distressed economic
6 times, I understand that there are those who
7 would rather have their farmland subject to
8 this fracturing rather than wait and find out
9 what that will mean.
10 It's sad that we're in an economic
11 time where a quick buck is more important than
12 long-term concerns. But no one really knows
13 what this fracturing will do to the land
14 throughout the counties being discussed. I
15 think we should take a go-slow approach.
16 There are others that feel that way as well.
17 We are in a position now of being
18 at sort of the first step of learning about
19 this kind of mining for gas, and yet I believe
20 this bill will speed up the process. The
21 Susquehanna River Basin Commission, which is a
22 bi-state commission, has told 23 exploration
23 companies operating in New York and
24 Pennsylvania that they need to come to them
25 before obtaining water from rivers, creeks and

(518) 371-8910
3728
1 streams in the area that they're talking about
2 mining in.
3 The process of drilling wells in
4 underground Marcellus and Utica shale
5 formations involves injecting large amounts of
6 water into these formations, breaking them up,
7 releasing trapped gas, and sending sand and
8 other chemicals which are protected under
9 federal patent law -- that we don't know
10 about -- into the ground.
11 Large, unregulated withdrawals from
12 streams can reduce the flow of water in time
13 of drought and cripple our wastewater plants
14 in time of flood. I think this is a
15 technology that we're nowhere near knowing
16 enough about. I think there's lots of people
17 within this area that have emailed us and
18 called us, and a number of environment groups
19 have come forward to say let's take a go-slow
20 approach on this.
21 So, Mr. President, I'm going to be
22 voting in the negative, thank you.
24 Duane.
25 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.

(518) 371-8910
3729

3 Duane, on the bill.
4 SENATOR DUANE: This is,
5 interestingly, a time where I think everyone
6 in the state, no matter where they live, has a
7 tremendous interest in this legislation and
8 not passing this legislation at this point in
9 time.
10 Let me say from the get-go, it's
11 possible, though I think unlikely -- and I'm
12 willing to be wrong about it -- but it's
13 possible that, as the sponsor says, there is
14 absolutely no danger, that this is a totally
15 safe technology. However, we do not know
16 that. And there is no proof of that.
17 As the sponsor said, this is a new
18 technology. We do not know the ramifications
19 of this technology. Absolutely, it has an
20 impact on the water table of anywhere where
21 this drilling takes place. Because in order
22 for this drilling to take place, the drilling
23 uses up an enormous amount of water.
24 It uses an enormous amount of water
25 in the area that the drill is taking place,

(518) 371-8910
3730
1 and we do not know what is left in place of
2 that water that's used. The water is
3 displaced, it's contaminated. The water
4 that's left is also contaminated.

5 So lay aside what it might do to
6 the New York City Watershed. What it does to
7 the local drinking water of the counties and
8 municipalities that are being impacted
9 potentially by this drilling.
10 The vast majority of people who
11 live in these counties get their water
12 locally, sometimes through a municipal water
13 system and sometimes through wells. And we do
14 not know the impact of this technology. Why
15 are we making it so that we won't be finding
16 out about it? If we permit this drilling to
17 start now --
19 Young, why do you rise?
20 SENATOR YOUNG: Will Senator
21 Duane yield for a question.
23 Duane, will you yield for a question?
24 SENATOR DUANE: Sure. Yes,
25 Mr. President.

(518) 371-8910
3731
2 Young.
3 SENATOR YOUNG: Senator Duane,
4 I'm listening to what you're saying, and my
5 question is, on what factual information are
6 you basing the comments that you're making
7 right now? Because you even admitted yourself

8 you don't know.
9 What I'd like to point out is that
10 DEC -- what this bill actually does is that it
11 will give DEC even more oversight over this
12 process. And it's not going to contaminate
13 water wells, it's not going to contaminate
14 municipal systems. There have been millions
15 of fracking across this country -- for
16 example, in Texas, the Burnett shale -- and
17 there have been no incidents of water being
18 contaminated. Millions, millions.
19 So I guess my question to you,
20 again, is where are you getting your
21 information from? Because it's totally
22 unsubstantiated.
23 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President.
25 Duane.

(518) 371-8910
3732
1 SENATOR DUANE: I said that I
2 wanted to have more information. Perhaps a
3 public hearing. What a concept.
4 Interestingly, the only state that
5 was specifically mentioned by the sponsor in
6 her question was Texas. Now, if we want to
7 have the same environmental situation here in
8 New York that Texas has, I think it's time for
9 most of us to move, because Texas has a
10 horrendous, horrible environmental record.

11 If we want to look at examples of
12 what has happened, let's look at Ohio, let's
13 look at Pennsylvania -- which, frankly, the
14 terrain of which, the geology of which much
15 move tracks with Senator Young's district than
16 does Texas. And I actually know something
17 about --
19 will you yield for a question?
20 SENATOR DUANE: If I could finish
21 answering the question -- if I may finish
22 answering the question, which I think I'm
23 allowed to, since I was kind enough to yield
24 before I finished -- there is an incredibly
25 high rate of cancer in many places in Texas

(518) 371-8910
3733
1 which many believe, scientists believe, is in
2 part caused by the terrible environment there.
3 And I have some personal knowledge
4 of that. My partner's mother died of cancer,
5 they lived in the Rio Grande Valley, and they
6 strongly believe that it's the water that
7 caused her to get esophageal cancer. As have
8 many people on both sides of the Rio Grande.
9 So I don't want us to be Texas.
10 Let's look at what has happened in
11 Pennsylvania, let's look at what happened in
12 Ohio before we rush to pass this legislation.

14 again, first of all, I'm sure you're aware
15 that New York State is probably the most
16 regulated, environmentally regulated state in
17 the entire country.
18 And if some of the states are less
19 regulated but they still haven't had an
20 incident, how can you stand there today and
21 say that you have some kind of facts or some
22 kind of data that suggests otherwise? I think
23 it's outrageous that you would even say that.
24 We have looked at what has happened
25 in Pennsylvania. We have looked at what has

(518) 371-8910
3734
1 happened in Ohio. And I have to say they're
2 even less regulated than us. And one thing
3 that I want to point out to you that I guess
4 I'm asking if you understand about the bill is
5 that --
6 SENATOR DUANE: I just want to --
8 Connor, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR CONNOR: Point of order.
10 There's a back and forth. I haven't heard a
11 question.
12 SENATOR YOUNG: If you
13 understand -- I'm asking the question, Senator
14 Connor.
15 I'm wondering if you understand,
16 Senator Duane, that we are the most regulated

17 environmentally, from an environmental
18 standpoint, state. And, number two, whether
19 you understand that this recovery of oil and
20 gas is already allowable in New York State,
21 and this does not change that one bit, but
22 basically gives more oversight to DEC in this
23 process.
24 Do you understand those two things?

(518) 371-8910
3735
1 Duane.
2 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I
3 think there were two questions. One is how
4 can I say this, and the second question was --
5 what was the very end of your --
6 SENATOR YOUNG: This legislation
7 does not change the fact that you already can
8 recover oil and gas in New York State through
9 horizontal drilling. That already occurs.
10 Basically what this does is help DEC. This
11 is --
13 actually just was asking for a very specific
14 clarification. There was a question how can I
15 say this, and then at the very end of what the
16 sponsor was saying she had another question,
17 which I just forgot.
18 But I'll answer the first question,
19 and if we come to the second one -- how can I

20 say this? How can the sponsor say what she's
21 saying? She doesn't know any more than I do
22 about this, because nobody knows about this,
23 because it's a new technology.
24 And I'm sure that the companies
25 that are going to make a windfall profit on

(518) 371-8910
3736
1 this, of course they're going to say it's
2 totally safe. Of course they're going to say
3 that. But there are numerous people in Ohio
4 and Pennsylvania who are sorry that they let
5 people come onto their land and do this, and
6 there are municipalities in Ohio and in
7 Pennsylvania who do not know what has happened
8 to their water. And they are very concerned
9 that their drinking water has been negatively
10 impacted, if not destroyed, by this
11 technology.
12 So both of us could say "how could
13 you say this." How could we say this? We're
14 both operating without the amount of
15 information that we need to have to make a
16 good choice about whether or not to allow this
17 kind of technology to be used.
19 will you yield?
21 Duane, will you continue to yield for another
22 question?
23 SENATOR DUANE: Yes,
24 Mr. President.

(518) 371-8910
3737
1 Young.
2 SENATOR DUANE: As long as the
3 question is not endless.
5 this is a DEC departmental bill. This is a
6 DEC --
8 Young, perhaps you can repeat the question.
10 I'd like to remind you, this is a DEC
11 departmental bill. And I know that you were
12 very supportive, I believe, of Commissioner
13 Grannis when we confirmed him.
14 So my question is, do you not have
15 faith in what DEC is putting forward? Do you
16 think that they're wrong on this issue?
18 Duane.
20 would like to have the luxury of a little bit
21 of time to find out whether they are wrong or
22 not. I do not know.
23 I think that this technology is
24 potentially very dangerous. I would like --
25 if DEC thinks that this is a good piece of

(518) 371-8910
3738
1 legislation, then I'd like to have a hearing
2 on it and have them come forward and discuss
3 it.
4 I'm more than happy to have the
5 corporations that are pushing this technology
6 to come and testify. And I think we also need
7 to talk with the municipalities and the
8 landowners who have had this technology used
9 on their land in, for instance, Pennsylvania
10 and Ohio.
11 Let's get them all in the same room
12 and testify, and I can ask as many questions
13 as they want and the sponsor can ask as many
14 questions as she wants. Senator Sabini can
15 ask his questions. We can all ask our
16 questions.
17 I think it's a little weird,
18 frankly, that we're in the closing days of the
19 session and this bill has just arrived here,
20 no public hearings on it. There is tremendous
21 concern about this legislation among the
22 people and counties across New York State, and
23 I think that we need to hear from them before
24 we take action on this.
25 You know, I don't know whether

(518) 371-8910
3739
1 we're the most overly regulated state, but I

2 do know that our water is among the best in
3 the country, and I would like to keep it that
4 way.
6 you, Senator Duane.
7 Is there anything further you would
8 like to add on the bill?
9 SENATOR DUANE: Just if I may
10 finish speaking on the bill, Mr. President.
12 Duane, on the bill.
13 SENATOR DUANE: I would encourage
14 my colleagues to vote in the negative on this.
15 I really think that we need a
16 chance to examine this, to hear from experts.
17 You know, I'm a person -- I know a lot about a
18 few things, I know a little about a lot of
19 things, but I don't know enough about many,
20 many things, and I like to hear from people
21 who know more than I do about them.
22 So I know that that's a luxury
23 here, but in this case, because it impacts on
24 our environment and our drinking water across
25 the state, I think that we should give this

(518) 371-8910
3740
1 some time, have hearings, hear from people,
2 make the most educated decision we can on it.
3 So I'm not saying that we should
4 never pass this, I'm just saying we need time

5 to really examine it. So I am encouraging my
6 colleagues to vote in the negative on this to
7 give us a chance to do that.
8 And I also want to wish Senator
9 Sampson a happy birthday.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Happy
12 birthday, Senator Sampson.
13 (Applause.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are
15 there any other Senators wishing to speak?
16 Senator Young.
17 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 While I respect my colleagues
20 Senators Duane and Sabini very much, I believe
21 that some of the statements that have been
22 made have been misrepresentative of this
23 legislation. Because this does not change a
24 thing as to what's happening right now in
25 New York State as far as allowing horizontal

(518) 371-8910
3741
1 drilling for natural gas and oil.
2 And according to DEC's own
3 statistics, there has been 75,000 of these
4 drilling operations upstate with not one
5 negative incident. That's upstate, that's
6 New York State, those are statistics that are
7 kept by our own DEC.

8 You know, we have the opportunity
9 here to really revitalize the upstate economy,
10 because this is a great opportunity for our
11 localities, it's a great opportunity for our
12 property owners.
13 And by the way, I do want to
14 mention that there's a bill that will be put
15 on the calendar shortly that gives landowners
16 a longer period of time so that they can
17 review things and refuse if they don't want to
18 accept a contract that's put forward by one of
19 the drilling companies.
20 But this is really key to
21 revitalizing the upstate economy. These
22 companies want to invest millions of dollars
23 into our economy.
24 And also, at the same time, you
25 know, if people in this chamber are concerned

(518) 371-8910
3742
1 about energy costs, about the consumers, one
2 of the things that undoubtedly we have to do
3 is increase our domestic supply. This does
4 exactly that.
5 So I would encourage all of our
6 colleagues and actually urge them to vote yes.
7 This is environmentally sound. This is a DEC
8 departmental bill. This revives the upstate
9 economy, and it increases our supply of
10 energy.
11 Thank you.
13 you, Senator Young.
14 Senator Sabini.
16 on the bill.
18 Sabini, on the bill.
19 SENATOR SABINI: I think it's
20 clear to me that this practice of fracking our
21 shale supply is one that really requires a
22 little more study. The executive director of
23 the Broome County Soil and Water Conservation
24 District said in a newspaper report just
25 yesterday: "This is like a road covered in

(518) 371-8910
3743
1 fog. It's hard to see which way it turns."
2 The fact of the matter is it will
3 take millions of gallons of water out of the
4 water supply and then put millions of gallons
5 of water back into the sewage treatment system
6 that has chemicals injected into them by the
7 process and then things taken out of the rock
8 in the process that we don't even know what
9 they are. They could be chemical, they could
10 be radioactive.
11 None of the soil and water
12 conservation districts have had anything but
13 questions about this process. They don't know

14 how they're going to have the capacity to
15 handle the wastewater, the millions of gallons
16 of wastewater.
17 Landowners are being -- frankly,
18 it's turned into a land rush where you can get
19 lots of money per acreage to have this process
20 done on your land, and yet they have to do
21 explosions, drilling, and water has to come
22 out of your land and be carted off elsewhere.
23 I think this is a technology that
24 we need to know more about, rather than
25 encouraging it at the last minute of session.

(518) 371-8910
3744
1 So I urge all my colleagues from upstate and
2 downstate -- and most of Delaware County is in
3 the New York City Watershed area, as far as I
4 know, having studied a lot about the
5 watershed. I'm concerned about the water
6 supply everywhere in this state. I think this
7 is a process that needs to be looked at more
8 closely rather than speeded up.
9 And I urge everyone to vote no.
11 Marcellino.
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
13 President, just on the bill. Just a
14 clarification so that we understand something.
15 This bill gives the DEC more
16 authority to regulate and control the process.

17 That's something to be aware of. They are
18 asking for us to give them greater control so
19 that they can monitor these wells, so they can
20 appropriately space these wells so that they
21 will have a minimal or as minimal as possible
22 impact on the local environment.
23 We're not going at this
24 willy-nilly. This stuff has been done before.
25 It's not new. Not new, it's not brand-new.

(518) 371-8910
3745
1 It's been used before. We want to, in this
2 state, use it appropriately, with more
3 controls and more monitoring. I don't know
4 how many other times and other ways to say
5 this.
6 This is a good bill. This will
7 move forward and will help, and it will not
8 negatively impact local water supply or the
9 water supply for the City of New York. It's
10 as simple as that. It's giving more control.
11 I should think you'd want that.
12 Thank you.
14 Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
16 feel compelled to stand up, since my
17 colleagues on the other side of the aisle have
18 talked so eloquently about my district.
19 And this is something that we are

20 paying very close attention to, not only in
21 the Broome-Chenango-Tioga-Delaware-County area
22 but throughout the state, and that is the
23 concept behind this departmental bill.
24 We have had dozens of meetings in
25 the Broome County area, because right now they

(518) 371-8910
3746
1 tell us that the Marcellus shale that's in
2 Broome County is the richest, possibly, in the
3 country. And as Senator Young said, right now
4 they're talking about $180 million in lease
5 arrangements with farmers who haven't been
6 able to pay their taxes for the last five
7 years and other landowners who have been
8 struggling in an upstate economy in an a
9 region where IBM once employed 17,000 people
10 and now employs 1200.
11 So yes, from an economic
12 development standpoint, my colleagues on the
13 other side of the aisle, this is big for us.
14 On the other side of the issue,
15 like anything we do here, you have to have
16 balance, you have to have control. We too are
17 extremely concerned about the environment.
18 We're concerned about the water table. We're
19 concerned about a whole host of issues.
20 That's why Chip McElwee, who made
21 those comments, Senator, in the paper, we have
22 been looking at a number of different ways to

23 make sure that we protect the water table,
24 that we protect -- you mentioned the New York
25 City Reservoir. This side of the aisle,

(518) 371-8910
3747
1 Senator Bonacic, others here, we have done a
2 number of things over the years to protect the
3 reservoirs that feed New York City. We care
4 very deeply.
5 During the aftermath of 9/11, it
6 was this house that did a number of major
7 important issues to make sure that those
8 reservoirs were secure and safe during some of
9 the issues that took place during and after
10 9/11.
11 So, Mr. President, to my colleagues
12 on the other side of the aisle, I certainly
13 appreciate their concern about some of our
14 districts upstate. I appreciate their
15 concern. But again, this bill, this bill is
16 going to give the answers to those questions.
17 As Senator Young said, this bill gives DEC
18 more authority to regulate, more authority for
19 oversight. That's what DEC is all about.
20 As a matter of fact, I've spent
21 20 years here, and I've heard time and time
22 again from my colleagues on the other side of
23 the aisle talking about the regulatory process
24 in DEC and how important it was. And in many
25 cases I've argued against it, because they

(518) 371-8910
3748
1 seem to be fighting the whole process in
2 creating new businesses and new jobs.
3 In this case, I agree with you. I
4 agree with you because what Senator Young is
5 trying to do here is make sure that we have a
6 balanced approach. So with all due respect to
7 my colleagues on the other side of the aisle,
8 I respect their opinion, I respect what they
9 have to say, but the answer is within Senator
10 Young's bill, because DEC will be making those
11 decisions that the people in Broome County at
12 the local level that I represent maybe don't
13 have not only the authority but the expertise
14 to make.
15 Just like we called upon them with
16 the some of the TEC vapors that we've had in
17 the Endicott area. The scientists from DEC
18 come down and they help us, they work with us.
19 It's not the local people who make those
20 decisions.
21 So, Senator Young, this is an
22 outstanding piece of legislation. This is the
23 balance between the possibility of some great
24 economic growth in upstate New York but also
25 in protecting the environment.

(518) 371-8910
3749

2 Winner.
3 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 As a Senator representing an area
6 that has had extensive gas exploration in the
7 last number of years, and also as the sponsor
8 of the 2005 amendments to the Environmental
9 Conservation Law which established the new
10 procedures for unitization of gas wells in the
11 state, you know, I'm pleased to support this
12 bill. And I want to commend Senator Young for
13 her efforts in this regard.
14 You know, it's astonishing to me to
15 listen to some of the downstate patronization
16 of upstate New York with regard to their
17 concerns, their purported concerns over the
18 environment, when this legislation is
19 specifically authorizing more oversight by the
20 Department of Environmental Conservation in
21 order to protect the environment rather than
22 to harm the environment.
23 And to that extent, I find your
24 concerns to be only knee-jerk-environmentalist
25 types of responses, and therefore I find it

(518) 371-8910
3750
1 very, very strange that --
3 Sabini, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR SABINI: Would Senator

5 Winner yield for a question.
7 Winner, will you yield for a question?
8 SENATOR WINNER: Yes.
10 Sabini.
12 through you, Senator Winner pointed out this
13 bill would give more oversight to DEC. Is the
14 Senator aware that the bill would reduce the
15 setback for drilling from 660 feet spacings to
16 460 feet spacings, thereby creating more
17 ability to drill these wells? That's your
18 idea of more regulation, to allow more?
20 Winner.
21 SENATOR WINNER: Well, Senator
22 Sabini, the Department of Environmental
23 Conservation is very expert with regard to the
24 way they establish their well setbacks.
25 And their unitization provisions,

(518) 371-8910
3751
1 rather than -- I'm sure that Queens, with all
2 of the gas wells that they have down there, is
3 very -- and the Senator from Queens who is
4 about to be a member of the New York Racing
5 and Wagering Board, is certainly going to
6 be -- is very knowledgeable about how they do
7 spacing of gas wells in the Southern Tier. I

8 appreciate that.
9 I know that you like to use the gas
10 that we're transmitting downtown to New York
11 City in order to fire your generating plants,
12 heat your homes, and otherwise provide
13 affordable energy. I know that you enjoy the
14 provisions of the Empire Pipeline that cut
15 through upstate New York and the Millennium
16 Pipeline that is going all the way through the
17 Southern Tier of New York in order to deliver
18 gas to your municipality down there so you can
19 have cheap and reliable power in order to heat
20 your homes and generate your electricity.
21 But it is astonishing to me that
22 all of a sudden you now have become, in that
23 process, an expert at how we space wells and
24 site and permit wells for the exploration of
25 gas in New York State.

(518) 371-8910
3752
2 if I could --
4 Sabini.
5 SENATOR SABINI: If I could
6 address the Senator's remarks.
7 I don't claim to be an expert in
8 it, but I'm just pointing out that in
9 answering a question about regulation, that
10 the regulation is allowing more drilling, not

11 less.
13 Sabini, are you asking Senator Winner to
14 continue to yield?
15 SENATOR SABINI: Who's presiding
16 up there? They're ganging up on us.
17 (Laughter.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: It's
19 his birthday.
21 I'm only pointing out that while --
23 Sabini, are you asking Senator Winner to
25 SENATOR SABINI: I'm trying to

(518) 371-8910
3753
1 answer his point, which is that I'm not expert
2 on the spacing or drilling of wells, but I do
3 know that if you reduce the amount of space,
4 you're going to get more wells. So to say
5 that's more regulation, I guess it's more
6 regulation to have more, but that's not the
7 kind of regulation I was interested in.
8 Thank you.
10 Winner.
11 SENATOR WINNER: In response to
12 Senator Sabini's comment, I would only point
13 out that the unitization size and the spacing

14 unit sizes are specifically for the purpose of
15 determining what is an appropriate spacing
16 size in order to protect the landowners so
17 that they can make sure that the correlative
18 rights that are being taken from them in the
19 form of the gas that's being extracted is more
20 properly allocated among particularly
21 landowners, and therefore they're fairly
22 compensated for the amount of gas that is
23 being extracted. That is the purpose of the
24 size of the spacing units. Also, it obviously
25 serves environmental purposes as well.

(518) 371-8910
3754
1 Once again, you know, we're
2 standing up here suggesting that the
3 Department of Environmental Conservation has
4 the expertise to do their job, and we want to
5 give them that power and maintain that power
6 for them in order to make sure that this is
7 properly regulated in New York State.
9 Thompson. Senator Winner, excuse me.
10 Senator Thompson, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR THOMPSON: I rise,
12 Mr. President, to ask if Senator Winner would
13 yield for a question.
15 Winner, will you yield for a question?
16 SENATOR WINNER: Sure.

18 Thompson.
19 SENATOR THOMPSON: Senator, I had
20 a question for you. And I wanted to know
21 whether or not -- you know, how long people
22 have been drilling. This process has been
23 taking place in the state for how many years?
24 SENATOR WINNER: Well, the
25 drilling in Western New York, particularly in

(518) 371-8910
3755
1 the Medina well fields, has been going on
2 for -- or had been going on for decades. And
3 obviously depending on the price of gas, some
4 of it slowed down and was abandoned.
5 And then, with the Trenton/Black
6 River find, it certainly has been receiving
7 new interest. And certainly now with the
8 Marcellus shale find, it's got even more
9 interest. So gas drilling has been going on
10 for probably over a hundred years in New York
11 State.
12 SENATOR THOMPSON: Are you aware
13 of any --
15 Thompson, are you asking Senator Winner to
17 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes.
19 Winner, would you continue to yield?

20 SENATOR WINNER: Yes.
22 Thompson.
23 SENATOR THOMPSON: Mr. President,
24 through you, are you aware of any groups that
25 may be opposed to this bill?

(518) 371-8910
3756
1 SENATOR WINNER: Well, I'm aware
2 that -- it was brought to my attention that
3 there's a -- the Sierra Club is opposed to it.
4 And that's about it, I think, that I'm aware
5 of.
6 I'm also aware that New York Farm
7 Bureau is in favor of it. I'm also aware that
8 the Independent Gas and Oil Association is in
9 favor of it. I'm aware that there is
10 obviously a number of independent landowners
11 that are in favor of it. I know there are
12 countless numbers of municipalities throughout
13 the Southern Tier that are in favor of it due
14 to the increased economic activity that it's
15 producing and the additional tax revenue and
16 economic development.
17 In fact, it's almost astonishing
18 that we have -- in the Southern Tier we have
19 hundreds of millions of dollars in
20 private-sector investment which has finally
21 come to our region of the state in assisting
22 landowners that were in the past unable to

23 secure any kind of reasonable return on their
24 land values or any kind of reasonable return
25 on their investments of property, and I'm

(518) 371-8910
3757
1 aware that those by the hundreds if not
2 thousands of individuals that are out there
3 that are benefitting from this economic growth
4 and activity are in favor of this legislation.
5 And I know that there are people
6 from one end of this state to the other that
7 are going to be able to benefit by the
8 increased production in the amount of natural
9 gas and have that gas delivered so that they
10 can heat their homes and power their
11 generating plants are going to be in favor of
12 it and are going to benefit from it.
13 So those kinds of people and groups
14 are in favor of this legislation, yes.
15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
16 Mr. President, will Senator Winner yield for
17 another question.
19 Winner, do you yield for an additional
20 question?
21 SENATOR WINNER: Certainly.
23 Thompson.
24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Has the DEC
25 ever authorized this state to engage in an

(518) 371-8910
3758
1 activity and ever reversed its decision?
3 Winner.
4 SENATOR WINNER: I don't know
5 whether they have.
6 Although, Senator, what I will tell
7 you is that I was extraordinarily interested
8 and attended numerous briefings -- and members
9 of my staff -- numerous briefings of the DEC
10 involved in the development of this
11 legislation and specifically questioned them
12 with regard to the safety, the environmental
13 safety concerns as it related to this
14 fracturing process.
15 And one interesting thing that they
16 pointed out -- and I'm assuming that the DEC,
17 under Pete Grannis's leadership, is telling
18 the truth when they represented to me and to
19 other members of the Legislature that were
20 interested that in their survey of this
21 fracturing process throughout this country,
22 that they had -- which was at least probably a
23 million instances of where that had
24 occurred -- that they had not uncovered one
25 instance, not one instance where there's been

(518) 371-8910
3759
1 any groundwater contamination.

2 So I take them at their word.
3 Apparently a number of your colleagues do not
4 take them at their word that that is in fact
5 accurate and do believe that the DEC must be
6 misleading them with regard to the safety. I
7 take DEC at their word that they are doing a
8 good job of regulating this industry and at
9 the same time providing for the unleashing of
10 hundreds of millions of dollars of economic
11 benefit and years and years' worth of supply
12 of plentiful and reasonable-cost natural gas
13 that will come out of this exploration
14 process.
15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Mr. President,
16 could the speaker yield for two more
17 questions.
19 Winner, will you yield for two questions?
20 SENATOR WINNER: Yes,
21 Mr. President.
23 Thompson.
24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Senator
25 Winner, have you ever worked for a gas company

(518) 371-8910
3760
1 before?
2 SENATOR WINNER: No.
3 SENATOR THOMPSON: So does that
4 mean you're not an expert on gas drilling or

5 gas operations? Is that safe to assume?
6 SENATOR WINNER: Well, I was the
7 sponsor of the 2005 legislation, yes. So to
8 that extent I was fairly knowledgeable in the
9 development of that.
10 SENATOR THOMPSON: But you've
11 never worked for a gas company?
13 Thompson, those were the two questions.
14 SENATOR THOMPSON: Could he just
15 answer my question, please.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Would
17 you want to answer the additional question?
18 SENATOR WINNER: What? I don't
19 understand the question, Senator.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Would
21 you re-pose the question, Senator Thompson.
22 SENATOR THOMPSON: I just want to
23 know whether or not you've ever worked for a
24 gas company.
25 Beyond what he has read, has he

(518) 371-8910
3761
1 ever -- does he have any practical experience,
2 either through high school, through college,
3 or professionally. Beyond reading papers,
4 have you ever had any experience in the gas
5 industry?
6 SENATOR WINNER: Senator, I'm an
7 attorney in a private practice, and as a

8 result I'm -- that's what my only other
9 occupation has been.
10 Thank you, Senator.
11 SENATOR THOMPSON: One last
12 question. Would you --
14 Thompson, Senator Winner does not yield.
15 Senator Winner has the floor, Senator
16 Thompson, and he does not yield.
17 Senator Winner, is there anything
18 further you would like to speak on the bill?
19 SENATOR WINNER: No, I've
20 concluded, thank you.
23 SENATOR THOMPSON: Could I speak
24 on the bill. I --

(518) 371-8910
3762
1 Thompson, we have a list.
2 Next is Senator Bonacic.
3 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 I'm not going to belabor what's
6 been said, but I'd just like to share some
7 things with you at a meeting that DEC held
8 with concerned constituents and our office on
9 some of the things that you've raised today.
10 Number one, the drilling for

11 natural gas, they go down about 700 feet.
12 That's point number one. Usually wells don't
13 go below 300, usually, and sometimes much
14 less.
15 The second point that I want to
16 make, and Senator Young mentioned it, there's
17 a history of 75,000 drillings on different
18 lands where there's knowledge of results of
19 the environment, and it's been done without
20 incident.
21 Number three, the gas company has
22 to post a bond, and that bond is to make sure
23 there's remediation of the land. They do
24 water analysis when they're done to see if
25 there's any contamination of the water. And

(518) 371-8910
3763
1 as I say, the drilling companies have to bond
2 this to make sure that the things you're
3 raising now do not cause any harm to the
4 environment.
5 So -- and how long this has been
6 going on is how long does it take to drill
7 75,000 wells in good times and bad. And when
8 there's bad times, there's times that they
9 don't drill till the market comes back. Okay?
10 So having said all of that, we
11 trust the DEC and their specialists to be the
12 protector of the environment. And Delaware
13 County was mentioned by one Senator.

14 Fifty-three percent of the land in Delaware
15 County is in the watershed area, which is the
16 most regulated area and lands in the whole
17 United States. And what we have found in
18 those 53 percent of the land in the watershed
19 area is actually economic strangulation.
20 There is no economic vitality.
21 So now, when we have the activity
22 of gas drilling, we have the protection of
23 property rights, we have an opportunity to
24 bring back economic vitality for upstate,
25 which is dying on the vine. And which all of

(518) 371-8910
3764
1 my colleagues, when I hear the rhetoric "we
2 are one state, we have to help everybody" --
3 well, this helps upstate in economic vitality.
4 And the environment has been
5 protected for decades. And now we are trying
6 to give the DEC more power to delve deeper, if
7 necessary.
8 So I cannot understand why we
9 wouldn't get unanimous consent on this
10 legislation. And I want to thank Senator
11 Young and my other colleagues who have
12 expounded on some of the things I've been
13 speaking about.
14 Mr. President, I vote yes. Thank
15 you.

17 Thompson, on the bill.
18 SENATOR THOMPSON: First let me
19 thank my colleagues on both sides of the aisle
20 for their passionate debate on this important
21 issue.
22 I would agree with my colleague
23 Senator Bonacic that we are truly, indeed, one
24 state, that we should not talk about downstate
25 versus upstate or upstate versus downstate.

(518) 371-8910
3765
1 I appreciate my colleague Senator
2 Young for her leadership on this issue. My
3 concern is twofold -- or threefold. One, that
4 there are groups from across the state that do
5 not support the bill at this moment because
6 they believe that more work needs to be done.
7 A couple of the groups are the Catskill
8 Mountainkeepers, the Natural Resource Defense
9 Council, and, as my colleague indicated
10 earlier, the Sierra Club as well.
11 The reason why I am concerned about
12 this issue is sometimes the government is
13 wrong. We have a place in the city of Niagara
14 Falls they call the Love Canal, which is the
15 poster child for government inaction and
16 government getting it wrong. See, the
17 government said to the residents years ago
18 that everything was okay, that they were
19 crazy. But you know what? A lot of

20 environmental scientists and activist groups
21 on both sides of the aisle of the political
22 spectrum grew out of the government being
23 wrong.
24 We just learned last year, paint
25 that people, the government, that the DEC said

(518) 371-8910
3766
1 for years was acceptable turned out to be
2 unacceptable. We had to do everything we can
3 to protect people.
4 I will conclude by saying that the
5 reason why people are concerned is that just
6 like last year, we were concerned about
7 protecting the water, so we passed the Great
8 Lakes Compact to protect our precious water
9 supply, and groups on both sides of the aisle
10 agree that we must protect our water.
11 Groups are concerned about the
12 following issues: Protecting people from
13 contamination, making sure that there is
14 consistent standards for quality testing and
15 drilling, making sure that we protect air
16 quality and there's air quality monitoring,
17 that there's more disclosure, that there are
18 noise thresholds, that there's also regional
19 planning.
20 Although we know that upstate is
21 suffering economically, we must always protect
22 those that come after us. There were people

23 years ago who thought it was okay just to open
24 up a factory in a neighborhood, and now we
25 know, 50 years later, that people are

(518) 371-8910
3767
1 suffering who worked in those plants and the
2 people who lived next to those facilities.
3 So I'm not saying that we should
4 deny people the opportunity to make money. We
5 know that there's a need. I'm just simply
6 saying that we need to -- if and when this
7 bill passes, we must continue to protect the
8 people that come 50, 60, 75 years later who
9 may buy a house, who may purchase that land,
10 and it may not be protected as good as we
11 think it should be in the years to come.
12 So I am in opposition of the bill
13 only because I believe we need additional
14 safeguards and protections for those people
15 who come 50, 60 years later who will not have
16 benefited from the short-term investments from
17 these major utility companies and venture
18 capitalists.
19 Thank you.
22 Debate is closed. The Secretary
23 will ring the bell.

(518) 371-8910
3768
3 the roll.
6 LaValle.
7 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 I've been listening very, very
10 carefully to the debate, and I'm sitting here
11 saying this is a puzzlement. I'm looking,
12 when this bill came up, at the sponsorship. I
13 see Senator Young carrying a DEC department
14 bill. Senator Young.
15 And I think, Senator Young, you
16 have done a phenomenal job in explaining the
17 necessity for this bill, and to upstate, to
18 achieve some sort of balance.
19 But Senator Marcellino, as chair, I
20 think really touched on something that's
21 critically important. We're talking about a
22 permit process. Has anyone viewed a DEC
23 permit process and how they make the applicant
24 walk on hot coals to get to the end of where
25 they need to get? They are, thankfully, so

(518) 371-8910
3769
1 scrupulous in what they do and demand of an

2 applicant. And so this provides greater
3 protection for our environment.
4 And so Senator Libous talked about
5 the critical balance that we need in
6 protecting the environment but allowing more
7 economic development. And I pride myself on
8 casting votes, when it deals with the
9 environment, very, very carefully.
10 But it is my pleasure, Senator
11 Young, on this day to support you with a yes
12 vote. I vote in the affirmative.
14 LaValle to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Senator Volker, to explain his
16 vote.
17 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, it is kind
18 of rare that Senator LaValle and I agree when
19 it comes to environmental votes.
20 But I just have to say a couple of
21 things. Senator Young is part of the upstate
22 delegation. It's always fascinating to me to
23 get lectured to by people from New York City
24 about clean water and clean air and all those
25 things that we have assiduously protected

(518) 371-8910
3770
1 throughout our entire careers.
2 I can assure you of one thing. I
3 don't know of anybody in Western New York and
4 really in upstate New York who would take any

5 risk with water. The big thing we have in
6 western New York is water. And a lot of the
7 things I've heard here today about drilling
8 are fascinating. My brother lives in
9 Scranton, Pennsylvania, and has told me about
10 the problems in Pennsylvania. It has nothing
11 to do with drilling in the last 10, 15 years.
12 It's all about years ago. And it's a big
13 problem.
14 We probably have more information
15 on this biomass and all this stuff. The
16 problem is there are many environmentalists
17 who do not want to drill at all. They don't
18 want to do anything because they're
19 frightened.
20 But let me just say one thing to
21 you because your successors and mine are going
22 to suffer immensely because your city has sat
23 there and done nothing about power.
24 The reason that we are the
25 number-two target, in Western New York, after

(518) 371-8910
3771
1 New York City, is because about 60 percent to
2 70 percent of your power comes through Western
3 New York. You have nowhere near enough power.
4 Once the World Trade Center comes back up, you
5 won't have enough power. I just want to warn
6 you about that, because we provide a lot of
7 things for the city.

8 So when you try to tell us about
9 the environment and all those kinds of things,
10 and about cows -- I don't think there's any
11 cows in New York City. Frank says there's one
12 farm; he's right.
13 I only sum up by saying we, we are
14 going to protect our water at all costs. We
15 don't need environmentalists, frankly, to tell
16 us about water because we'll protect it
17 ourselves. So I vote aye.
19 Volker to be recorded in the affirmative.
20 Senator Sabini, to explain his
21 vote.
23 as I stated earlier, I'll be voting in the
24 negative, primarily because, as the prior
25 speaker noted, if someone had done something

(518) 371-8910
3772
1 years ago, there wouldn't be the problem today
2 in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I don't want to be
3 responsible years from now of someone saying
4 we didn't do something about technology we
5 didn't know about years ago.
6 So to protect the future, I think
7 we should have more time and more study on
8 this process. That's why I'm voting in the
9 negative. Thank you.

11 Sabini to be recorded in the negative.
12 Senator Duane, to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 I just want to say that my people
16 have been in this state longer than many
17 others here: The Duanes of Duanesburg, the
18 Hallinans of Callicoon. We may have lost that
19 mansion in Duanesburg, but our spirit
20 continues.
21 I just want to raise one issue that
22 wasn't raised as I vote no on this, and that
23 is the Millennium Pipeline, those are good
24 union jobs. These drillers come in, they're
25 not union, they come, they drill, they leave,

(518) 371-8910
3773
1 and what are we left with? We don't know.
2 That's what we're trying to find out.
3 So, Mr. President, I'll be voting
4 in the negative on this. Thank you.
6 Duane to be recorded in the negative.
10 Senators Adams, Connor, Duane, Huntley, Klein,
11 L. Krueger, Montgomery, Parker, Perkins,
12 Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman, Serrano, Smith,
13 Stavisky and Thompson.

14 Ayes, 45. Nays, 16.
16 bill is passed.
17 The Secretary will read Calendar
18 1845.
20 1845, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 8457,
21 an act to amend the Elder Law.
22 SENATOR SMITH: Explanation.
24 Explanation, Senator Maltese. Senator
25 Maltese, Senator Smith requests an explanation

(518) 371-8910
3774
1 of the bill.
2 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes,
3 Mr. President.
4 Just as a brief prelude to the
5 bill, in the '60s there was a realization on
6 the part of many visionaries and people
7 concerned with the increasing number of
8 elderly that were not served by any type of
9 real attention. And this was not just with
10 meals or a place to be, but a fact of life for
11 many seniors whose loneliness, the fact that
12 they felt that a lifetime of work had left
13 them without any real benefits despite living
14 in the greatest country in the world.
15 And certain people in the '60s --
16 and I do call them visionaries -- like

17 Cavaliere Peter Cardella, from the Ridgewood
18 area, came up basically with the idea of
19 centers that would cater to and benefit
20 seniors, many of whom did not have families
21 or, even if they had families, with the
22 increase in travel and mobility of people,
23 their families were often spread out and far
24 away.
25 And they came up with senior

(518) 371-8910
3775
1 centers that now we take for granted, senior
2 centers like the ones we have in my district,
3 but that are throughout the entire City of
4 New York. And we now have 329 senior centers
5 in the City of New York.
6 And when I talk of visionaries, I
7 talk of nonpartisan people, people like Peter
8 Cardella but also people like Vito Lopez, who
9 founded these centers that now serve literally
10 thousands and thousands of seniors, that in
11 New York City serve 25,000 seniors every day
12 with home meals. In addition, there are
13 8.1 million meals served daily, with
14 3.7 million meals served with home-delivered
15 meals by DFTA.
16 This bill is an outgrowth and
17 result of a policy change that was sought to
18 be enacted by the City of New York. And that
19 policy change was to try to -- in view of what

20 they state is a diminishing number of seniors,
21 some underutilization of senior centers, and
22 the fact that the meals served had declined in
23 certain centers only.
24 As a result of that, we met with
25 Deputy Mayor Gibbs and we met with

(518) 371-8910
3776
1 Commissioner Mendez-Santiago to assuage and
2 address the concerns of the seniors. This
3 bill is a reply to the concerns and the
4 worries of the seniors.
5 Picture, if you will, a senior that
6 relies on home-cooked meals delivered hot to
7 their home each and every day, in some cases
8 except for weekends. And they were challenged
9 and advised that instead of a hot meal, they
10 might be receiving some frozen meal that had
11 to be thawed.
12 Now, mind you, a good percentage of
13 these seniors are over 90. Many of them
14 cannot care for themselves, depend on home
15 health attendants and others to either look in
16 on them or to take care of them. The idea of
17 frozen meals was not one that -- it was one
18 that filled them with apprehension.
19 In addition, picture, if you will,
20 these 329 senior centers that many people
21 spend their holidays in, many of them have now
22 opened at Thanksgiving and Christmas and other

23 holidays, both religious and others. The
24 modernization, the word "modernization"
25 worried many of them.

(518) 371-8910
3777
1 While the motives of the Mayor and
2 the motives of the Department for the Aging
3 was laudatory, at the same time there was not,
4 I believe, enough input from providers, input
5 from community advocates, and certainly not an
6 opportunity for input from the seniors
7 themselves --
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Can we
9 have order, please. Thank you.
10 Senator Maltese.
11 SENATOR MALTESE: Oh, okay, I've
12 been advised that I'm possibly a little too
13 long.
14 (Laughter.)
15 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. Explanation
16 satisfactory.
17 On the bill, Mr. President.
19 Smith.
20 SENATOR SMITH: Yes, thank you.
21 I want to thank Senator Maltese for
22 bringing forth this particular bill.
23 Obviously there is no resource more precious
24 to us than our seniors. We have a slight
25 difference of opinion with regards to the

(518) 371-8910
3778
1 approach. And what I would like to do at this
2 time, Mr. President, is just specifically
3 explain my concerns.
4 One of the things that we believe
5 is very important, in particular as it relates
6 to the modernization of the Meals on Wheels
7 program, and concerns that we have,
8 notwithstanding Senator Maltese's bill, which
9 basically codifies what is already being
10 practiced, is that there are a number of
11 centers, smaller centers -- and many of my
12 members will attest to that -- that will
13 basically close, assuming that this
14 modernization moves forward.
15 There's a Bronx program right now,
16 there's a pilot program that we are suspecting
17 we'd rather have Senator Maltese amend his
18 bill to make sure that no action is taken
19 until that program is reviewed or that the
20 findings of that program is reviewed and
21 completed. And we believe once that study was
22 completed and it was examined, that it would
23 be real clear that the modernization program
24 that the city is looking to put forward is not
25 one that would serve our seniors well.

(518) 371-8910
3779
1 We worked very closely with the

2 Governor's office, we put together a
3 40-question document that went to the City of
4 New York. And I do understand that they may
5 have responded to that with almost the same
6 amount of pages in response.
7 But more importantly, we believe
8 that the amendment that we were going to put
9 forward would have served to better serve our
10 seniors. This is an important program for
11 many of the seniors and, I know, Senator
12 Maltese, whose interest in serving the seniors
13 of the state is not in question. But more
14 importantly, what is in question is the
15 approach.
16 There is no doubt that we
17 understand that these programs, these senior
18 programs which are throughout the state, in
19 particular in New York City, we would serve
20 them well if we would take the time to
21 understand what is happening with the program.
22 We think that had Senator Maltese
23 accepted the amendment, it would not derail
24 his particular bill. We are only trying to
25 improve it. As you know, his particular bill

(518) 371-8910
3780
1 is a one-house bill. The bill that I have put
2 forward, Mr. President, along with Senator
3 Diaz, has a sponsor in the Assembly by the
4 name of Assemblyman Dinowitz. And assuming

5 that this particular bill, however it was
6 adopted, we would have the Governor sign it,
7 who we know supports it.
8 So I am going to vote for his bill,
9 but I do want Senator Maltese to understand
10 that this was merely a means by which to
11 improve on some good suggestions that he had.
12 And hopefully, if in fact this bill remains a
13 one-house bill, he will join the bill that
14 Senator Diaz and I have. And we will go so
15 far as to let Senator Maltese be on that bill
16 if he chooses to do so, because we believe
17 that would be a better bill for the seniors of
18 this state.
21 you, Senator Smith.
22 Senator Hassell-Thompson.
23 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
24 you, Mr. President. On the bill.
25 During the budgetary process,

(518) 371-8910
3781
1 Assemblyman Dinowitz, who is one of the
2 Assemblymen that represents a part of my
3 senatorial district, brought this concern to
4 us as we talked about funding of programming
5 particularly for seniors.
6 And my concern was then that I had
7 received complaints from many of my senior

8 centers, number one, that they were being
9 threatened with either closing or being
10 consolidated. But more than that, there was a
11 major concern that the meals that were being
12 served were frozen and that -- number one, the
13 food was awful.
14 Having gotten past the issue of
15 taste and aesthetic choice, there's also a
16 cultural concern that is not being addressed
17 when these meals are being prepared and
18 served. And so that one of the things that
19 the seniors -- I know that we talk about the
20 concerns about diet and how many of the foods
21 that we eat perhaps are not in our best
22 physical interest. But taste is a major
23 factor that determines whether you feel like
24 you want to eat and whatever.
25 The other concern that I have, by

(518) 371-8910
3782
1 preparing the meals in this manner and
2 delivering them on a weekly basis, one of the
3 major concerns that created the need for Meals
4 on Wheels gets totally lost, and that is the
5 visitation that happens. And it's a way of
6 checking up on seniors without them really
7 being overly conscious that somebody is
8 watching about what happens to them.
9 And it's a way in which the
10 delivery of these meals can allow for a

11 cursory look to see, number one, if in the
12 winter the apartment is properly heated, if
13 those needs of seniors are being met.
14 And so when these programs were
15 designed -- I used to work in community action
16 agencies when a lot of the design for this
17 stuff was being done. It concerns me now that
18 we're talking about the centralization of
19 programs. And while certainly I understand
20 the need to modernize and improve the delivery
21 system, what the Department of Aging for New
22 York City is -- it's failing. It's not a
23 successful proposition for us.
24 And to allow the Mayor to push this
25 through without careful thought and without

(518) 371-8910
3783
1 some oversight on the part of communities and
2 our seniors would be a disservice that we
3 would perpetrate on them.
4 We come here to represent their
5 interests, and their interest is to have some
6 say about the kinds of meals that are served
7 and the way in which the preparation of things
8 are done. And programmatically, if these
9 programs have been successful, I would think
10 that it would be in the best interests of our
11 community agencies to be beefed up and be
12 given technical assistance if that's what's
13 necessary.
14 But to dismantle programs that have
15 uniquely created an opportunity to ensure that
16 the seniors in our communities are served I
17 think is a disservice to them and to
18 everything that we hold sacred.
19 So I would hope that we would, in
20 this Legislature, look very carefully at the
21 Bronx senior options pilot program that's
22 being proposed, and that an impact statement
23 as regards these reform measures be submitted
24 to this Legislature no later than at least
25 September of 2008.

(518) 371-8910
3784
1 And I applaud Senator Maltese in
2 terms of the thoughtfulness, but I would hope
3 that he would be cognizant of the fact that
4 the Mayor does not have all the answers. And
5 that until we build in some oversight to
6 ensure that the way in which these programs
7 are going to be structured meets the needs of
8 the community -- not just the desires, but the
9 needs of the community -- I would hope that he
10 would give consideration to the Bronx senior
11 options pilot program that is being discussed.
14 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson.
15 Senator Golden.

17 Mr. President.
18 I applaud my colleague Serph
19 Maltese for his direction in assisting to make
20 sure that the seniors of the City of New York
21 and the State of New York never have
22 diminished services in the future. And that's
23 what this bill will do.
24 And I'm sure that we can work
25 closely with our colleagues across the aisle

(518) 371-8910
3785
1 and in the other house to achieve the goals we
2 need to make sure that the seniors across our
3 city are not impacted by these cuts.
4 Before working with the SOFA, Mike
5 Burgess, we sat down and we drafted the
6 questions that went into the City of New York
7 and worked with the SOFA to make sure that
8 these questions were answered and that they
9 were part of a draft that went into the City
10 of New York and to ask the City of New York
11 how they were going to respond to these
12 questions.
13 SOFA presently has to see a plan.
14 That plan has to be submitted every year.
15 They didn't wait and do it every year, they
16 did it in the middle of the year. So we put a
17 bill together here that will obligate them to
18 put that before SOFA before they do any
19 changes in the City of New York.

20 That's why this bill is a good
21 bill. It addresses the concerns of the aging
22 plans and makes sure that the plans are
23 adhered to. It also deals with the
24 description and the analysis of the level of
25 detail prescribed by the director showing the

(518) 371-8910
3786
1 number of seniors who will be affected by each
2 new or changed initiative.
3 It goes after the demographics and
4 the annual and long-term projections of the
5 numbers of seniors proposed to be served by
6 each initiative. It goes after the financial
7 sustainability. And it goes after whether
8 there are any diminishment of services, that
9 that will not negatively -- there will be no
10 diminishment and there will be no negative
11 impact to our seniors.
12 That's why this bill addresses
13 those concerns. Working with my colleagues,
14 we were able to come up with this, I believe,
15 compromise that works for us to make sure that
16 our seniors aren't impacted.
17 The Office of Aging is not required
18 to take consumer-provided information, but we
19 make sure that they have to take that
20 information now, that the stakeholders have to
21 be at the table, that we have to understand
22 what these cuts would do to our seniors across

23 the City and State of New York.
24 So we're proud. There's not one of
25 us in this room that wants to see a senior

(518) 371-8910
3787
1 citizen get a cold meal that wants a hot meal,
2 a frozen meal over a hot meal. If they want a
3 hot meal they should get that hot meal, and at
4 our senior centers.
5 You've got to remember this, this
6 is 19 -- what is this, 2008. We haven't seen
7 any upgrades in some of our locations since
8 the 1970s and 1980s. The programs that are in
9 place today in the City of New York and in
10 many cities across this state and across this
11 country are still working under the 1960s,
12 '70s and '80s rules and regulations and the
13 way they've been designed in basements of
14 churches, in basements of halls that you can't
15 access if you're handicapped.
16 You need to be able to bring those
17 senior centers into the 21st century. We've
18 got to bring those meals into the 21st
19 century. We've got to give opportunity to our
20 seniors across the City and State of New York.
21 You've got to remember, the baby
22 boomers are here. They're coming. We are
23 impacting this city and this state greatly
24 with the number of seniors that will be here.
25 And we have to be able to take care of the

(518) 371-8910
3788
1 needs of those seniors when they get here, and
2 we've got to take care of the needs of the
3 seniors of today.
4 So it's time to upgrade. It's time
5 to do the right thing. And it's time to give
6 our seniors their due here in this great
7 state. I give my good colleague again
8 congratulations for coming up with this bill,
9 and hopefully that we have passage of this
10 bill by the Assembly and by our good
11 colleagues here.
12 Thank you. I vote aye.
14 Diaz, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR GOLDEN: Senator Diaz,
16 how are you?
18 Diaz.
19 SENATOR DIAZ: Will the honorable
20 chairman of the Aging Committee yield for a
21 question, please.
23 Golden, will you yield for a question?
24 SENATOR GOLDEN: It's not my
25 bill.

(518) 371-8910
3789
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: It's

2 not his bill, Senator Diaz.
3 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you.
5 Padavan.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
7 it's unnecessary for me to repeat, I think,
8 what Senator Golden so appropriately and
9 eloquently stated in support of Senator
10 Maltese's bill, which I think is the right way
11 to go in terms of our responsibility.
12 We have met, as he indicated, with
13 Commissioner Santiago, we've met on more than
14 one occasion with the commissioner and on two
15 occasions with the deputy mayor assigned to
16 this area of city government. And we've made
17 all of the very issues that you've heard
18 here -- clear, concise, to the point.
19 But here's the part that disturbs
20 me. We're dealing with the Administrative
21 Code of the City of New York, a singular city
22 agency, funded in the city budget. The
23 ineptitude of city government, specifically
24 the City Council, to address this issue to the
25 same extent we are, collectively, both sides

(518) 371-8910
3790
1 of the aisle, is astonishing.
2 It would be like if we had a state
3 agency doing something, a state agency that we
4 regulate, a state agency that we provide for

5 in the state budget, and we bumped it
6 somewhere else. And that's what they've done.
7 They have washed their hands of this issue and
8 sent it to the State Legislature.
9 There's nothing partisan about
10 this, but I think it's certainly real. We
11 should all be going back to our city
12 councilmen and saying: Look, we're doing
13 everything individually and collectively in
14 Albany to address this issue. But how about
15 you doing your job? You're dealing with the
16 city budget. You're dealing with the
17 administrative code. Make sure that nothing
18 adverse and inappropriate happens to our
19 senior programs.
20 And we'll work together. It should
21 not be entirely our responsibility, as it's
22 now turned out to be. Because what they're
23 now saying down there in city government, in
24 that august chamber known as the City Council,
25 "The problem is in Albany. They're going to

(518) 371-8910
3791
1 solve it."
2 Nonsense. We'll do our part, but
3 they should do theirs as well.
4 I vote aye.
6 Diaz.
7 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,

8 Mr. Chairman. On the bill.
10 Diaz, on the bill.
11 SENATOR DIAZ: When we talk about
12 senior citizens, we all try to be the
13 defenders of senior citizens. Senator Maltese
14 has a good bill. I'm not saying this is a bad
15 bill. And I congratulate you.
16 But by preventing Senator Smith
17 from doing or introducing an amendment to
18 fortify, to give more strength to Senator
19 Maltese's bill, I think was wrong.
20 Senator Maltese is a person that
21 has shown his dedication and his love and his
22 commitment to senior citizens.
23 But when Senator Golden says that
24 we are here to defend and to be sure that
25 every senior citizen gets a hot meal if they

(518) 371-8910
3792
1 want to, and when Senator Golden said that and
2 Senator Padavan also said that we have met
3 with Commissioner Edwin Mendez and he has
4 explained -- and let me tell you what it is
5 Commissioner Edwin Mendez said: Any senior,
6 any senior citizen who wants to have a hot
7 meal, they will get a hot meal.
8 What he's not saying, what he's not
9 saying is that, ladies and gentlemen, when
10 you -- in the Bronx, they took 17 distributors

11 of hot meals and they make it only three. So
12 those three distributors, they got frozen
13 meals in the truck. When they go to the home
14 of a senior citizen and the senior citizen
15 says "I want a hot meal," you know what they
16 do? They come downstairs to the truck, they
17 put the frozen meal in the oven, they warm up
18 the frozen meal, they go back to the senior
19 and say, "Here is a warm meal. Here is a hot
20 meal."
21 Does that make sense, Senator
22 Golden? That's what Edwin Mendez-Santiago is
23 not telling you.
24 And by the way, shame, shame on all
25 of those Bronx City Council delegation that

(518) 371-8910
3793
1 voted for this. Shame on them. Not one
2 single, not one single City Council member
3 from the Bronx opposed this. They all voted,
4 they all went together with the Mayor: Oh,
5 yeah, Mr. Mayor [salaaming], whatever you
6 want. And they sold out the senior citizens
7 in the Bronx.
8 Now senior citizens in the Bronx,
9 they have to eat, they have to eat frozen
10 meals. And Edwin Mendez said no, if they want
11 a hot meal, they can get a hot meal. I
12 already told you how they get a hot meal: Go
13 down to the truck, put the meal in the oven in

14 the truck, and then they get a hot meal.
15 Now they want to bring that to the
16 whole City of New York. Senator Maltese, they
17 want to bring that to your district. Senator
18 Golden, they want to bring that to the senior
19 citizens in your district. Senator Padavan,
20 they want to bring that to the senior citizens
21 in your district.
22 And to all of you, to all of us in
23 the Bronx -- now, in the Bronx, we already
24 have it. There's nothing we could do.
25 Thanks, thanks to the Bronx City Council

(518) 371-8910
3794
1 delegation, there's nothing we could do.
2 But you in Manhattan, you got a
3 choice. And you in Brooklyn, you got a
4 choice. In Queens, you got a choice. In
5 Staten Island, you got a choice to protect the
6 and defend senior citizens in your district.
7 Stand up to the Mayor stand up to Edwin
8 Mendez-Santiago and tell him no.
9 Another thing, let me tell you
10 something, we have senior citizens that are
11 stationed in an African-American area. Other
12 seniors are placed in the Puerto Rican or
13 Hispanic area. Or in the Jewish area. Or
14 they're in different communities. The senior
15 citizens that are in the Hispanic district,
16 they like rice and beans. The senior citizens

17 that are in the African-American community,
18 they like other kinds of food.
19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Collard
20 greens.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: There you go. The
22 senior citizens that are in the Jewish
23 community, the Russians, Italians, they're all
24 different.
25 Now, when they consolidate all of

(518) 371-8910
3795
1 that, when they consolidate all of that and
2 they put all the -- they try to consolidate
3 all of the senior centers in one area, what's
4 going to happen to those seniors that like to
5 eat rice and beans or pasta fagioli? What
6 happens to those seniors in your district like
7 to eat something else?
8 Because by consolidation, what
9 they're doing, what they're trying to do by
10 consolidation is to put all the seniors and
11 bring all the seniors and close the smallest
12 senior centers and make one big senior center.
13 Because that's the 21st century you were
14 talking, Mr. Golden. You say we got to get
15 used to the 20th century. 20th century senior
16 citizens gave too much for us. They worked
17 too hard. They gave their life. They don't
18 deserve what they're trying to do to them now.
19 Frozen meals, frozen meals from a

20 company in Massachusetts. Frozen meals. Tell
21 me, tell me, if you might, who are the
22 companies importing or bringing the frozen
23 meals to the Bronx? That's what they're
24 trying to do to the senior citizens in
25 Brooklyn, in Staten Island, in Manhattan, in

(518) 371-8910
3796
1 Brooklyn and in Queens.
2 We in the Bronx, we in the Bronx,
3 thanks again to the beautiful Bronx County
4 Council delegation, thanks to all of them and
5 to the chairman and to all of them, thanks to
6 them, our seniors in the Bronx are eating
7 frozen meals. And that is something that I
8 will never forget, I will never forget from my
9 City Council delegation. They did that to the
10 seniors in the Bronx, they did that to the
11 senior citizens in the Bronx.
12 And I want all of you to prevent
13 the other seniors from the City of New York to
14 go through this. It's wrong. It's not good.
15 It's bad. To save a few pennies? To save a
16 few pennies you're going to put the senior
17 citizens through this? I want a hot meal.
18 Okay, let me go down. [Pantomiming.] Here's
19 your hot meal.
20 Are you going to tell us now that
21 we love seniors and we are doing the best for
22 senior citizens? We're killing them.

23 Besides, besides the hot meal every day, the
24 delivery every day to a senior citizen serves
25 many purposes. When the delivery person goes

(518) 371-8910
3797
1 to the door and knocks on the door, he watches
2 and he will be able to see that the senior
3 citizen is in good condition and nothing
4 happens to them. And at the same time, he
5 will give the senior citizen the hot meal.
6 Senior citizens, if the hot meal
7 comes seven -- seven -- they do twice a week,
8 they bring senior citizens the three packages
9 of frozen meals. The senior citizen has to
10 put that in the freezer, and when the time
11 comes, the senior citizen has to use either a
12 microwave oven or find a way to do it, to have
13 the -- to make the hot meal.
14 Now, suppose -- and you might tell
15 me that that's the senior citizen's problem.
16 But suppose that the senior citizen gets three
17 meals for three days. And in the morning the
18 senior is hungry, eat that one, go and eat and
19 then at night eats another one. What's going
20 to happen through the rest of the day?
21 No, no, no, no, not today. Not
22 today, Mr. Chairman. I love you. Not today.
23 I'm talking about seniors, and that's my
24 thing. And I'm talking on the bill. So not
25 today, I'm not -- you want to go home? Go

(518) 371-8910
3798
1 home. I'm talking today. I'm not -- I'm
2 not -- I'm not -- I am not shutting my mouth
3 today.
4 What you are doing to the senior
5 citizens is wrong. What the Mayor of the City
6 of New Yorks, the multibillionaire Michael
7 Bloomberg, what he is doing to the senior
8 citizens of the City of New York is wrong.
9 It's abusive. What Commissioner Edwin
10 Mendez-Santiago is doing is abusive to senior
11 citizens. And to allow us to go to support
12 those things here?
13 No, ladies and gentlemen, no, it's
14 wrong. We should protect our senior citizens.
15 We should look out for them. We should not
16 allow this to happen to the senior citizens.
17 Senator Padavan, the senior
18 citizens in your district. Senator Golden,
19 you, sir, you are the chairman of the Aging
20 Committee. Don't allow this to happen.
21 Because the Mayor -- don't allow this to
22 happen.
23 You, Senator Adams, don't allow
24 this to happen to your seniors in Brooklyn.
25 Senator Montgomery, don't allow this to happen

(518) 371-8910
3799
1 to your seniors in Brooklyn. And you,

2 Senator, don't allow this to happen.
3 In the Bronx, we have to live with
4 that. We from the Bronx, there's nothing we
5 could do. Our seniors are eating hot meals.
6 [Laughing.] Our seniors are eating frozen
7 meals, and when they want a hot meal they go
8 down and warm up -- thanks, thanks again to
9 the Bronx City Council delegation and to the
10 chairman and to all of them that sold out our
11 senior citizens. And now the Bronx is going
12 through this.
13 And I don't want the other
14 communities to go through what our senior
15 citizens in the Bronx are going through.
16 Stop -- stop -- we are -- we are -- we are in
17 a position to stop Mayor Bloomberg and stop
18 the Department for the Aging to keep abusing
19 our senior citizens. I mean, you want to
20 close senior centers because we are in the
21 20th century and we're going to close those
22 small centers and put all of them together?
23 And they have one meal, because
24 when the frozen meal comes, it's only one
25 meal. It's only one meal. It's not different

(518) 371-8910
3800
1 meals. A frozen meal for the Hispanic, a
2 frozen meal for the Italian, a frozen meal for
3 the Jews, a frozen meal for others. It's one
4 meal for everyone in the community in that

5 area. So whoever doesn't like the frozen
6 meal, too bad for you. You got to eat what
7 you get.
8 That's not the right way to treat
9 our senior citizens. So, ladies and
10 gentlemen, that's why I -- I'm supporting your
11 bill. I am supporting your bill because you
12 are a good man. I love you very much. You
13 are a good man, Senator Maltese. I'm
14 supporting your bill. You are a good man.
15 I'm just talking because I got to
16 talk. I got to -- I got to -- I have to vent.
17 I have to let it go because when I see the
18 senior citizens in the Bronx going through
19 what they are going through, it's made me
20 angry. It's made me upset. And the Mayor of
21 the City of New York should be -- we should
22 stop the Mayor of the City of New York. You
23 know, we have a bill, Senator Smith and
24 myself, we have a bill. And we require -- we
25 require the Commissioner of the Aging is

(518) 371-8910
3801
1 requiring the commissioner of the city to
2 respond of all the questions that we ask him.
3 So, ladies and gentlemen, Senator
4 Griffo, Mr. President, thank you for this
5 time. You know I love you. I love your
6 parents too, wherever they are. Give them my
7 regards. They are senior citizens too.

8 They're lucky they don't live in the City of
9 New York. They're good people. They love me
10 too. They came here to meet me, and they love
11 me.
12 So ladies and gentlemen, thank you
13 very much. Thank you for listening. Stop
14 Mayor Bloomberg and Commissioner Edwin
15 Mendez-Santiago to do to the senior citizens
16 of Brooklyn, Manhattan, Staten Island, and
17 Queens what they did to the senior citizens in
18 the Bronx.
19 Thank you very much.
21 you, Senator Diaz, for sharing and your love.
22 Senator Klein.
23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, on
24 the bill.

(518) 371-8910
3802
1 Klein, on the bill.
2 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I think what my objection is is
5 that the legislation before us today does not
6 have sufficient oversight. We actually
7 submitted forty separate detailed questions
8 about this plan, and I think before we do
9 anything we certainly need to know the
10 ramifications on senior citizens all over our

11 city.
12 Senator Diaz was correct in citing
13 and talking about the Bronx example. I had
14 the dubious distinction of seeing firsthand
15 how this pilot program affected senior
16 citizens; first, on the Meals on Wheels
17 program. Clearly, speaking to seniors, the
18 quality of the food is not good.
19 But I think just as important is it
20 wasn't only that a senior citizen would get a
21 meal delivered to their doorstep, the most
22 important thing was a person actually making
23 contact with that senior citizen. Making sure
24 that they're okay, making sure that they were
25 properly bathed, making sure they weren't

(518) 371-8910
3803
1 wearing the same clothes, really checking on
2 their state of mind.
3 That really is what's missing from
4 the program that is up and running now in the
5 Bronx, and certainly our senior citizens are
6 not better for it.
7 The other point, as far as our
8 senior centers, we have to remain
9 ever-vigilant in not changing a system which I
10 believe right now works very, very well.
11 There is not a senior center in my district or
12 any place I have gone in the Bronx that isn't
13 at full capacity. And one of the things that

14 the Reverend, I'm surprised he didn't know
15 about, the day to go to the senior center is
16 the day they serve chicken, because that's
17 when you get the largest crowd.
18 And I think it's important to
19 really understand what a senior center is all
20 about. It's not only about a senior going
21 there to get a hot meal. I think one of the
22 things that we need to remember, it's an
23 opportunity for a senior citizen to reconnect
24 with friends and just be out of their home.
25 You know, through medical research

(518) 371-8910
3804
1 we've done great things in keeping people
2 alive longer, but one thing we haven't found a
3 cure for is loneliness. And the ability for a
4 senior citizen to reconnect with friends, take
5 part in activities at senior centers is
6 something that's very, very difficult to put a
7 price tag on.
8 So I think my hesitation here is in
9 allowing this administration, the city
10 administration, to sort of reconfigure senior
11 programs again, based on our experience in
12 Bronx County. We had many programs that were
13 providing Meals on Wheels. It's now
14 consolidated to one or two. So we put a lot
15 of not-for-profits that really knew what they
16 were doing in serving their specific

17 neighborhood population out of business.
18 So I think before we allow this
19 administration -- and we have a right to do
20 this, by the way, because the money that's
21 going to be used is state and federal dollars.
22 We have to make sure that we're not putting
23 our senior citizens in jeopardy. And I think
24 all of us in this legislative body understand
25 that it's in our best interest to make sure

(518) 371-8910
3805
1 that our senior citizens can live out their
2 golden years in comfort and dignity.
3 I vote no on this, Mr. President.
5 Adams.
6 SENATOR ADAMS: Would Senator
7 Diaz stand for a question.
9 Diaz, will you yield for a question?
10 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes,
11 Mr. President.
13 Adams.
14 SENATOR ADAMS: Through you,
15 Mr. President, I didn't quite understand what
16 you were saying. When a senior gets one of
17 these frozen meals and they say, as Senator
18 Golden stated, that they wanted a hot meal,
19 they go downstairs and bring them a hot meal,

20 or do they give them the same frozen meal.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: They will warm up
22 the front meal and they bring it to them, the
23 same frozen meal.
24 SENATOR ADAMS: Would he yield
25 for another question.

(518) 371-8910
3806
2 Diaz, will you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, sir.
5 Adams.
6 SENATOR ADAMS: So they will take
7 the same frozen meal that the senior stated
8 they didn't want and they will go down to a
9 truck and put it in a microwave or something
10 and heat it up?
11 SENATOR DIAZ: Yeah, yes, that's
12 what I'm saying. Until -- until Commissioner
13 Edwin Mendez prove me wrong, that's what I'm
14 saying.
15 SENATOR ADAMS: Would he yield to
16 another question.
18 Diaz, do you continue to yield?
19 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, sir.
20 SENATOR ADAMS: There was
21 something else you stated. You stated that
22 although in our city we have different

23 communities and our seniors, at that point in
24 their life they're used to different tastes
25 and different foods.

(518) 371-8910
3807
1 So this frozen Swanson dinner sort
2 of format, they're going to address the
3 different taste needs of the various
4 communities we have in our city?
6 Diaz.
7 SENATOR DIAZ: What I'm saying,
8 Senator Adams, is that when they join -- they
9 put all the smaller senior centers together,
10 they bring seniors from all over. If the
11 center -- if the local center is in the black
12 community, maybe that's what they bring,
13 tastes for that area, maybe. But the other
14 seniors that came from other areas to that
15 center, they will have to eat what that center
16 is getting. That's what I'm saying.
17 If they bring the seniors to a
18 Jewish area and that's the center in the area,
19 they will have food geared to that community.
20 But all the seniors that come from the other
21 areas to that center, they're going to have to
22 eat that.
23 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you.
24 On the bill.

(518) 371-8910
3808
1 Adams, on the bill.
2 SENATOR ADAMS: My district in
3 Brooklyn, the 20th Senatorial District, is
4 probably one of the most diverse districts in
5 the state. I have a large Hassidic Jewish
6 community, a large Irish community, a large
7 Asian community, Caribbean-American,
8 African-American, with different tastes,
9 different foods. And to have a program that
10 believes a one-size-fits-all I think is the
11 wrong way to go.
12 But I think, even more so, what
13 Senator Klein stated that many of us seem to
14 be overlooking and to be ignoring. I recall
15 how for many years when the postman on my
16 block would stop at some of the seniors' homes
17 and speak with them, they would want to hold
18 them there for a great period of time.
19 Many of our seniors are not as
20 fortunate as our parents are. They don't have
21 visitors. Some of them spend countless number
22 of days without anyone calling them, without
23 anyone knocking at their door. The only sound
24 they hear is coming from a television set.
25 They spend countless number of hours because

(518) 371-8910
3809
1 their children or their family members are no

2 longer with them.
3 That human contact and human
4 interaction is more than just some ceremonial
5 event that takes place during the 12:00 p.m.
6 hour of the day. It is the only human contact
7 that they ever feel. And I think that when
8 you have administrators that are detached from
9 everyday human beings and make policies that
10 are more geared towards profit interests
11 instead of social interaction, that's the
12 wrong way to go, particularly when you have a
13 billionaire attitude where you don't have to
14 worry about frozen meals, you can buy the
15 company that makes the meals. It's wrong.
16 And no matter what policy seems to
17 come out of City Hall, if you look close
18 enough there's some type of consultant that's
19 attached, there's some type of group that's
20 making millions off the policy. There just
21 seems to be this mad rush to privatize but
22 ignore the concerns of individuals.
23 Serving people, particularly
24 seniors and children, there should never be a
25 profit-gearing motivation behind it. It

(518) 371-8910
3810
1 should be behind dealing with the sensitivity
2 of those two ends of the spectrum of our
3 society, and that's our seniors. All of us,
4 no matter which town we're from, no matter

5 what ethnicity we're from, no matter what
6 background, there's a common denominator. If
7 we like it or not, we're getting old.
8 And I don't wanting anyone knocking
9 at my door with a frozen modern-day Swanson
10 dinner, popping it into a microwave oven
11 inside his truck, when instead someone should
12 come and have a human interaction with me and
13 my family member. No person sitting inside
14 this chamber would want their parents to have
15 to go through that. And we shouldn't want the
16 seniors of our state to have to endure that.
17 The program is wrong. And the
18 arrogance that we continue to show this
19 chamber. Senator Klein just stated he has 74
20 questions that he asked of City Hall to
21 answer. How many times are we going to allow
22 this administration to state: So what that
23 thousands of people elected you to become
24 state senators, we don't have to listen to
25 you.

(518) 371-8910
3811
1 I don't believe in that philosophy.
2 If we don't take ourselves serious and demand
3 that our local municipalities answer our
4 questions, then who the heck is going to take
5 us serious? At a minimum, he should have
6 answered the 74 questions. At a minimum, he
7 should learn that he has to come through us to

8 get these policies changed.
9 So I will vote with Senator
10 Maltese's bill, because it does answer some of
11 the questions. But Senator Dilan and Senator
12 Hassell-Thompson and Senator Klein, they raise
13 some important issues that we have a look at,
14 how are we treating our seniors. What are we
15 doing to make sure that they're not kicked to
16 the curb of our society but they're
17 appreciated for allowing us to be the great
18 city and the great state that we belong in.
19 And you don't do that by telling them to pop
20 their meal into an oven. It's the wrong thing
21 to do.
22 And we need to modernize our senior
23 centers. Yes, we say yes to that. But
24 modernization doesn't mean the less treatment
25 in a very humanistic way of how we treat our

(518) 371-8910
3812
1 seniors. And I think that what we're doing in
2 the aging area is the wrong way to go.
4 you, Senator Adams.
5 Senator Stavisky.
6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 About 20 or 25 years ago, my
9 husband and I founded a senior center in
10 Flushing. And the reason was very simple: we

11 saw people sitting on the benches in the
12 community with no place to go. People would
13 stay in their apartments, staring at four
14 walls.
15 And every study shows that people
16 do better when they're in some kind of
17 socialized setting. It's not the meals, it's
18 the companionship. And that is very, very
19 important.
20 We do a congregate meals program at
21 the center that I'm very closely identified
22 with. In fact, they're kosher meals. There's
23 another center in my district where chicken
24 day is the big day, as Senator Klein said.
25 Chicken day. And they line up outside. And

(518) 371-8910
3813
1 the story is that if you make it to the second
2 tree outside, you're going to get your
3 chicken. And if not, they will run out of
4 food. Going to run out of chickens, too, I
5 guess.
6 That's why this program is so
7 important and why Commissioner Mendez-Santiago
8 is so wrong. It's not only the frozen meals
9 component, but also the need to submit the RFP
10 so that centers can be consolidated. What
11 does consolidation of centers mean? It means
12 fewer centers. It means older people will not
13 be able to visit a center, because many older

14 people no longer drive.
15 Our mass transit system is such, at
16 least in Queens County, where we have a hub
17 and a spoke concept, so that to go from
18 Whitestone, where I live, to Bayside, you have
19 to go into Flushing, change buses, and go back
20 to Bayside. And seniors are not going to do
21 this.
22 So what happens if we have to
23 issue -- if senior centers have to issue an
24 RFP? Yes, they will save money. But it will
25 come back to haunt us, because seniors will

(518) 371-8910
3814
1 increase the costs of healthcare, they will
2 increase other costs as well.
3 The purpose is to get seniors out
4 of their homes. And to do otherwise, it seems
5 to me, constitutes a form, an insidious form
6 of elder abuse.
7 I'm going to vote for Senator
8 Maltese's bill because anything that benefits
9 seniors I think benefits us all. But on the
10 other hand, I would hope that we would bring
11 the companion bill to Assemblyman Dinowitz's
12 bill to the Senate floor for a vote. That's
13 the ultimate solution. And hopefully, before
14 the end of session, we will accomplish that.
16 Schneiderman.
18 Mr. President. On the bill.
20 Schneiderman, on the bill.
21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Just
22 having a discussion with Senator Savino about
23 whether this bill does more harm than good.
24 And it's really unfortunate,
25 because I'm sure Senator Maltese's intent was

(518) 371-8910
3815
1 to do something that actually advances the
2 interests of the seniors in New York who are
3 suffering under, among other things, this
4 poorly conceived and horribly executed plan
5 that the Department for the Aging in the City
6 of New York is undertaking.
7 But listening to this debate,
8 Mr. President, I have to say that I've
9 determined that I have to vote against this
10 bill because of the bad process, the bad
11 substance, the bad policy, and the bad
12 politics that have been on display here today.
13 One of my colleagues on the other
14 side of the aisle said about this bill, which
15 simply provides plan amendments --
16 essentially, what's already required. The
17 agency has already taken the position that
18 everything in this bill is already required.
19 So in practice, this bill will do nothing. It

20 does codify something.
21 But one of my colleagues on the
22 other side of the aisle had the temerity to
23 stand here and say, "This bill will make sure
24 seniors will not have diminishing services in
25 the future." I wrote it down. "This bill

(518) 371-8910
3816
1 makes sure seniors will not have diminishing
2 services in the future." That, Mr. President,
3 is at an out-and-out misstatement.
4 And I think it's very important for
5 us to acknowledge what's going on. Those of
6 my colleagues from the Bronx who have spoken
7 up are really bearing witness to the
8 catastrophe that is coming towards all of your
9 seniors if you allow DFTA to proceed to
10 implement the same sort of program as was
11 implemented in the Bronx.
12 Do not tell seniors this bill will
13 prevent them from having diminishing services.
14 Under the DFTA plan, senior centers are
15 closing down, we are losing front-line
16 centers. Seniors are not getting the same
17 service of hot meals. Seniors are losing
18 services. Seniors are suffering. And I don't
19 understand how can you sit here today and say
20 we're doing everything we can do for seniors,
21 this bill will protect them.
22 This bill won't protect them. This

23 bill requires some change in the filing
24 requirements. And in your desperation to
25 avoid confronting the real issue, you have

(518) 371-8910
3817
1 reached beyond any reasonable limit for
2 technical legal objections to the amendment
3 offered by Senator Smith, of his bill and
4 Senator Diaz's bill, that would actually stop
5 the Department for the Aging from implementing
6 this failed program.
7 The seniors in the Bronx -- and I
8 represent part of the Bronx -- are suffering,
9 ladies and gentlemen. You have to stop this
10 from happening elsewhere. Please, please put
11 your politics aside. Focus on the policy.
12 Allow Senator Smith's bill to the floor. Let
13 us stop the Department for the Aging from
14 harming more seniors, from closing more
15 centers, from having more people receive
16 multiple meals that they have to deal with
17 themselves or cold meals or, if they're really
18 extra-assertive, a reheated meal.
19 This is bad public policy, this is
20 bad politics. On display today has not just
21 been bad substance but bad process. This is a
22 one-house bill that does nothing. And what we
23 are offering you is a two-house bill,
24 sponsored by Assemblyman Dinowitz in the
25 Assembly, that would do something. Even with

(518) 371-8910
3818
1 this bill, we have more fights ahead of us for
2 seniors. We have to fund the programs. We
3 have to deal with the fact that we have an
4 aging population. And there will be more
5 fights ahead.
6 But Senator Smith and Senator Diaz
7 have offered a two-house bill that would
8 address the problem. You are offering us a
9 one-house bill that would do nothing.
10 I'm voting no, Mr. President. I
11 hope before the session ends we will put a
12 bill on the floor that actually addresses the
13 crisis facing seniors in the City of New York.
14 I vote no.
16 Krueger.
17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
20 Krueger, on the bill.
21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Well, we
22 started off today having a debate about
23 germaneness of whose amendment to what bill.
24 But I have to tell you, I'm just excited we're
25 finally, on the floor of the New York State

(518) 371-8910
3819
1 Senate, talking about seniors and the problems

2 that they're facing, whether we agree or don't
3 agree on Senator Maltese's bill versus Senator
4 Smith and Senator Diaz's bill.
5 I spent days on the floor of the
6 Senate listening to resolutions involving
7 racehorses and other issues that I don't think
8 of as important as what happens to senior
9 citizens in the State of New York.
10 So the bill here today has mostly
11 been talking about the issue of frozen meals
12 for Meals on Wheels delivery in the City of
13 New York. But I would argue, as someone who
14 represents seniors in my district and who's
15 spent her life working on food and nutrition
16 and hunger issues before I got to the State
17 Senate, that the questions are much larger
18 than we are starting to address today. And
19 the assignment is not done with this bill one
20 way or the other.
21 We are expecting an enormous
22 increase in the number of seniors in this
23 state in the next 20 years, for two reasons.
24 One, the changing demographics of the fact
25 that the baby boomers are all getting older.

(518) 371-8910
3820
1 And, two, we're living longer.
2 And yet if you ask the question --
3 I don't care where you come from in the State
4 of New York -- are you ready, do we have the

5 services that will be needed for us, do we
6 have the 21st century technology to provide
7 the best care, the best access to food and
8 nutrition, the best models for socialization
9 in our communities? Whether it's the
10 Adirondacks or the Bronx or Manhattan, I will
11 tell you will the answer is no. We are so far
12 behind where we need to be.
13 And to disagree with one of my
14 colleagues before who said senior centers are
15 about socializing, not even the meals, they
16 are absolutely about both. Poor seniors in my
17 city are dependent on getting those meals at
18 those senior centers. And so it terrifies me
19 that the City of New York is considering,
20 without real evaluation and research, closing
21 some of the centers. Because we know the
22 number of seniors are going up, and we also
23 know in the City of New York, once you lose a
24 piece of not-for-profit real estate, you never
25 get it back. It's gone. You won't be able to

(518) 371-8910
3821
1 afford to open a new senior center if three
2 years from now you go, Oops, that was a
3 mistake.
4 It's why it's a crisis that the
5 New York City Housing Authority is being
6 pressured and forced by their own economics to
7 talking about closing their senior meal

8 centers in some of the poorest communities of
9 the City of New York. We're not going to
10 replace them. We're not going to get more.
11 So I respect and agree with my
12 colleague Senator Diaz -- and that doesn't
13 happen that often on this floor, as you
14 know -- when he talks about the dangerous of
15 shifting to a frozen meals program and the
16 failures that we've seen happening in the
17 Bronx. But I'll tell you, we should all be
18 worried no matter where we are in the City of
19 New York or in the State of New York.
20 You know, there are studies that
21 have come out -- in fact, in New York City
22 just in the last week the New York City Food
23 Bank, a group I was very proud to found back
24 25 years ago, did their annual study on hunger
25 in the City of New York. The numbers are

(518) 371-8910
3822
1 terrifying.
2 And one of the fastest growing
3 populations who are turning for emergency food
4 are seniors. They aren't getting the food
5 they need when they go out to senior centers.
6 They don't have the money to purchase the food
7 they need if they go to the supermarket. They
8 are one of the lowest utilizers of the federal
9 Food Stamp program, free money for food for
10 seniors and others through the federal

11 government.
12 Do you know we still make seniors
13 get from fingerprinted in New York City in
14 order to apply for food stamps? That's one of
15 the reasons seniors aren't getting food
16 stamps. That's one of the reasons they are
17 going hungry.
18 We are looking at just the tip of
19 the iceberg when we talk about what the
20 Department for the Aging and the Mayor have
21 proposed compared to what we need to look at,
22 what we need to focus on on the floor of the
23 Senate. We have to talk about the fact that
24 our seniors are being evicted from their homes
25 at higher rates than the rest of New Yorkers.

(518) 371-8910
3823
1 We have to talk about the fact that the
2 housing court judges in New York have urged us
3 to create a right to counsel and even special
4 Housing Court parts so that somebody is there
5 to protect senior citizens from being evicted
6 and ending up on our streets, in our shelters,
7 in hospitals, unable to be discharged, or in
8 nursing homes because there's nowhere else for
9 them to go.
10 We ought to be talking about the
11 fact that we have healthcare crises where
12 seniors even with Medicare can't afford to pay
13 their rent and their food once their Part B

14 deduction has been taken out, once they have
15 to pay copays for medicine.
16 We have to talk about the
17 priorities we are not making here at the state
18 level or, I would agree with my colleagues, in
19 the City of New York. Why are we fighting
20 over cutting back on home-delivered meals to
21 vulnerable, sick, living-alone seniors in
22 their homes when we're still providing
23 programs like corporate welfare, like the ICIP
24 program -- which, by the way, sunsets when we
25 leave session this year.

(518) 371-8910
3824
1 And I don't know if that bill is
2 coming to the floor, but I hope my colleagues
3 will consider joining me in not continuing
4 that program. It's $400 million of city taxes
5 not collected because of a program that
6 provides tax reductions for corporations in
7 tall buildings in my district in midtown
8 Manhattan who, trust me, aren't leaving if
9 that tax exemption sunsets on them.
10 But what will that bill do if it
11 sunsets? It will give the City of New York
12 $400 million more every year that we can talk
13 about spending on our senior meals and our
14 seniors, we can talk about spending on our
15 schoolchildren, because we're also dealing
16 with cuts to our schools.

17 So we're not prioritizing right. I
18 don't believe that Senator Maltese's bill goes
19 far enough. I will vote for it, but again, I
20 wanted to stand up and say at least we're
21 spending a little time today talking about
22 seniors, and I want to highlight how rarely we
23 prioritize them.
24 And that should frighten all of us,
25 and we should all go home and feel like we

(518) 371-8910
3825
1 need to be better accountable to the people in
2 our districts about what we are doing to plan
3 to ensure that no senior in New York State
4 ever thinks they have to go hungry, that no
5 senior in New York State ever imagines they
6 have to decide between paying their rent or
7 paying for their food, that no senior is
8 struck in winter not being able to afford
9 heating oil for their home or to pay their
10 electricity or heating bill if they're in an
11 apartment, that no senior ever has to go to
12 their pharmacist and say "I can't afford the
13 copayment for my prescriptions, so even though
14 my doctor gave me four, I'm only going to use
15 two this month."
16 That is what's going on for seniors
17 in every community in this state, and those
18 are the issues we should be focused on in this
19 chamber much more of the time.

20 I will vote for the bill. But
21 again, my goal here is to say shame on us, we
22 are not even touching the surface, scratching
23 the surface of what we should be addressing.

(518) 371-8910
3826
1 there any other Senator wishing to be heard on
2 the bill?
3 Senator Connor.
4 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
5 President. On the bill.
6 I think Senator Krueger just gave a
7 good picture statewide of how we've been
8 avoiding -- "we" being government at the state
9 and the local level -- been avoiding
10 responsibility to plan for and protect our
11 growing senior population.
12 I want to speak a bit about my
13 district, because as the city talks about
14 closing and consolidating, in my district,
15 statistics are there. Probably certainly half
16 the voting population, I know, are new younger
17 residents, well-off, work on Wall Street,
18 buying condos at great price.
19 But also in my district are
20 seniors, and in some neighborhoods
21 increasingly isolated because of that
22 demographic change, surrounded by much younger

23 people, younger families not related to them.
24 The old neighborhood has changed. And they
25 take refuge at the senior center. That's

(518) 371-8910
3827
1 where they can meet and congregate and
2 socialize with their friends, and that's where
3 they can get a hot meal at lunch.
4 There are many, many senior centers
5 in my district. In Manhattan, literally you
6 could walk for less than an hour and pass
7 eight or 10 of them. Why? Well, there are
8 several -- three or four, actually -- senior
9 centers just in Chinatown. And the seniors
10 who go there are primarily Asian,
11 Asian-American. And obviously the food that's
12 served there is appealing to their traditional
13 diet. I love it too; I think we all like it.
14 But it's basically Chinese food.
15 To start closing and consolidating
16 with senior centers just a few blocks north,
17 which serve kosher meals to an aging Jewish
18 population. And if you go a little bit west,
19 you find another ethnic group in Manhattan
20 with their senior centers. And a little bit
21 north and east, senior centers, the clientele
22 primarily Latino.
23 So Senator Diaz makes an important
24 point. If we're going to treat these seniors
25 with dignity, we want to give them appealing

(518) 371-8910
3828
1 meals, not just something to cram down their
2 throats to stay alive. They're entitled to
3 that dignity.
4 And what's going on now is the
5 city, with its plans, with its bureaucratic
6 plans using some sort of corporate model, is
7 ignoring the real human needs of our senior
8 citizens, offending their dignity -- and by
9 the way, I don't mean to suggest these senior
10 centers are segregated, because in all of them
11 you find people of different ethnicities.
12 Usually in the minority there, but they go
13 there because they know someone, they feel
14 comfortable there. They're entitled to that
15 opportunity to choose where they want to go,
16 where they're comfortable, in their senior
17 years.
18 So, Mr. President, I'm saying I'm
19 going to fight for these seniors, we're going
20 to fight against this administration that's
21 ignoring their real needs, that's looking for
22 efficiency-efficiency at the expense of the
23 health, welfare and happiness of our senior
24 citizens.
25 While I'm on the topic,

(518) 371-8910
3829
1 Mr. President, just in today's newspaper, a

2 story about the New York City Housing
3 Authority, how it's been running deficits.
4 Why? Well, the federal government has walked
5 away from that program and cost, over the last
6 five or six years, tens and tens of millions
7 of dollars to the New York City Housing
8 Authority, which is the best-run housing
9 authority, has been historically, in the
10 nation.
11 The state hasn't exactly done its
12 part, because starting with the Pataki
13 administration, the state stopped paying I
14 think it was $25 million to pay for, as a
15 subsidy to public housing the state built and
16 the state owns, but New York City Housing
17 Authority administers.
18 So what do we see in today's paper,
19 Mr. President? Still running a $191 million
20 deficit for this year, projecting a
21 $207 million deficit for next year. The
22 housing authority is now saying, We're going
23 to close the community centers.
24 Now, what made New York City public
25 housing the best in the nation? The fact that

(518) 371-8910
3830
1 it did look after the total well-being. It
2 built not just housing to put poor people in
3 or working people in, it built communities.
4 And part of that were these

5 community centers, are these community centers
6 that provide a place for kids to go after
7 school. But, on our topic here, that also in
8 many instances provide senior citizen
9 community centers and meals.
10 And they're talking about closing
11 it, as early as July first. You say, well, a
12 lot of money, though. Where would you get
13 $200 million? Well, the shocking thing,
14 Mr. President, is the City of New York charges
15 the New York City Housing Authority
16 $200 million a year for police services,
17 sanitation services, things that private
18 landlords with similar developments of
19 multiple buildings get for nothing.
20 What landlord is charged money for
21 police services? What residential building is
22 charged for sanitation services? The answer
23 is none.
24 So why is the Bloomberg
25 administration, its housing authority, why is

(518) 371-8910
3831
1 the Bloomberg administration taking this
2 $200 million and forcing the housing authority
3 to close the community centers where meals are
4 served to seniors, where seniors are given
5 activities, where children are given
6 after-school activities and summer activities,
7 educational experiences, and recreational

8 experiences? While the Bloomberg
9 administration is taking $200 million a year
10 to provide them with police in case there's a
11 crime or to answer their calls for help from
12 the police or to pick up their trash. Which
13 they do for billionaire private owners with
14 similar projects, they do for nothing beyond,
15 obviously, the property taxes.
16 Why? Why? Where are our values?
17 Where are our values when we're ignoring that
18 kind of need in a city that's bursting with
19 younger, wealthier residents, that despite the
20 economic downturn has actually been fat with
21 cash? Why do we need to do this? Why do we
22 treat our seniors that way? Why are we going
23 to close these centers?
24 I say it's got to stop,
25 Mr. President. It's got to stop. I'm going

(518) 371-8910
3832
1 to vote for this bill, but I want to see teeth
2 in it. I want to see, when these plans are
3 filed, somebody saying: No, you can't do that
4 to our seniors, you can't consolidate these
5 centers, you can't close them, you can't close
6 the centers in public housing, you have to
7 preserve the dignity and the health and the
8 welfare of our senior citizens.

11 there any other member wishing to be heard?
12 Senator Golden, to close.
14 Mr. President, real quickly.
15 I just wanted to clarify for
16 diminishment of services. Well, there won't
17 be any diminishment of services as a result of
18 these new change initiatives, how these
19 changes would be measured and the efforts that
20 will be made to counteract any negative
21 impact, negating any negative impact to the
22 community.
23 I think this bill is important.
24 SOFA is at the table. SOFA can make the final
25 decisions to a plan. And that, I think, is

(518) 371-8910
3833
1 important. This is a vote for the seniors not
2 just for the City of New York, but this is a
3 vote for the seniors of the State of New York,
4 to make sure that no plans are submitted that
5 would impact our seniors such as hurting and
6 not going forward with new senior centers and
7 addressing the senior centers at those
8 locations and bringing them up to speed.
9 I think it's important that we move
10 to the future and that we get into the
11 21st century and that no senior is left behind
12 and that no senior is given any type of
13 diminishment of services in this great city

14 and state.
15 So again, I voted aye already, I
16 just wanted to clarify. And thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Debate
19 is closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3834
3 Senators Klein, Perkins and Schneiderman.
4 Also Senator Serrano.
5 Absent from voting: Senators C.
6 Kruger and Thompson.
9 bill is passed.
10 Senator Skelos, that ends the
11 controversial reading of the calendar.
13 Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: May we
15 have order, please.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could

17 return to motions and resolutions at this
18 time, I believe there's some housekeeping.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We'll
20 return to motions and resolutions.
21 Senator Nozzolio.
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes,
23 Mr. President. On behalf of Senator Padavan,
24 I wish to call up Print Number 5865, recalled
25 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

(518) 371-8910
3835
4 520, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5865, an
7 Nozzolio.
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
9 I now move to reconsider the vote by which
10 this bill was passed.
16 I now offer the following amendments.
18 amendments are accepted.

20 on behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to call up
21 Print Number 3175B, recalled from the
22 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

(518) 371-8910
3836
1 237, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3175B, an
2 act to amend the Social Services Law.
4 I now move to reconsider the vote by which the
5 bill was passed.
11 I now offer the following amendments.
14 Senator Farley.
16 Mr. President.
17 On behalf of myself, I wish to call
18 up my bill, Senate Print 8464, it's recalled
19 from the Assembly, and it's now at the desk.
22 Again, I will ask for order in the

23 chamber so that we can allow for an accurate
24 representation of the transcript, please.
25 Thank you.

(518) 371-8910
3837
4 act in relation to requiring.
6 Farley.
9 bill was passed, and I ask that the bill be
10 restored to the order of third reading.
16 now move to discharge, from the Committee on
17 Rules, Assembly Print 11555 and substitute it
18 for my identical bill.
19 The Senate bill passed unanimously
20 on the first passage, and I now move that the
21 substituted Assembly bill have its third
22 reading at this time.
24 Substitution ordered.

(518) 371-8910
3838
2 1848, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
3 Assembly Print Number 11555, an act in
4 relation to requiring the State Comptroller.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
6 the last section.
10 the roll.
14 bill is passed.
15 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President,
16 on behalf of Senator Golden, I move to amend
17 Senate Bill 7332B by striking out the
18 amendments made on 6/16/08 and restoring it to
19 its previous print number, 7332A.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So
21 ordered.
22 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President,
23 amendments are offered to the following Third
24 Reading Calendar bills:
25 Senator Seward, on page 51,

(518) 371-8910
3839
1 Calendar Number 1348, Senate Print 7471;

2 Senator Golden, on page 54,
3 Calendar Number 1419, Senate Print 7229A;
4 On behalf of Senator Seward, on
5 page 57, Calendar Number 1470, Senate Print
6 6749A;
7 On behalf of Senator Flanagan, on
9 5830A;
10 On behalf of Senator Marcellino, on
12 6945A;
13 And also, on behalf of Senator
14 Alesi, on page 25, Calendar Number 717, Senate
15 Print 175A.
16 Mr. President, I move that these
17 bills retain their place on the Third Reading
18 Calendar.
21 bills will retain their place on the Third
22 Reading Calendar.
23 Senator Farley.
24 SENATOR FARLEY: If I may return
25 to the order of resolutions, passed earlier

(518) 371-8910
3840
1 today was Resolution 6552, recognizing
2 National Friends of the Library Week.
3 Historically, everybody in the
4 chamber has been on that resolution. I'd like

5 to offer it up to everyone. And if you don't
6 care to be a sponsor of it, please report to
7 the desk.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On
9 Resolution 6552, Senator Farley has invited
10 all members to be sponsors. If you choose not
11 to be, please notify the desk.
12 Senator Duane.
13 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 On behalf of Senator Thompson, I
16 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 8101A,
17 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at
18 the desk.
22 1607, by Senator Thompson, Senate Print 8101A,
23 an act to amend the Parks, Recreation and
24 Historic Preservation Law.

(518) 371-8910
3841
2 bill was passed.
7 SENATOR DUANE: And now,

8 Mr. President, I offer the following
9 amendments.
12 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
13 much.
15 you, Senator Duane.
16 Senator Maziarz.
17 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator Griffo,
18 would you please recognize Senator Ruth
19 Hassell-Thompson, please.
21 Hassell-Thompson.
23 you, Senator. Thank you, Mr. President.
24 Had I been in the chamber on
25 Calendar Number 614, Senate Bill 2968A, I

(518) 371-8910
3842
1 would have voted no.
3 record shall so reflect.
5 you, Mr. President.
7 Thompson.
8 SENATOR THOMPSON: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 Had I been in the chamber for

11 Calendar Number 1845, Senate Bill 8457, I
12 would have voted yes in the affirmative.
14 you, Senator Thompson. The record shall so
15 reflect.
16 Senator Oppenheimer.
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
18 President, I unfortunately was out of the
19 chamber on a bill that I would like to be
20 voted no on. That is S6393A, earlier this
21 morning. I was at a press conference.
22 Thank you.
24 you, Senator. The record shall so reflect.
25 Senator Maziarz.

(518) 371-8910
3843
1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator Griffo,
2 at this time -- or, I'm sorry, Mr. President,
3 at this time could we return to reports of
4 standing committees.
5 I believe there's a report of the
6 Rules Committee at the desk.
8 Returning to the reports of standing
9 committees for the Rules Committee report.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
12 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
13 following bills:
14 Senate Print 4104, by Senator
15 Huntley, an act to amend the Penal Law;
16 4854A, by Senator LaValle, an act
17 to amend the Real Property Tax Law;
18 4922A, by Senator Lanza, an act to
19 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
20 5087, by Senator LaValle, an act to
21 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;
22 5271, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
23 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law;
24 5675, by Senator Lanza, an act to
25 amend the Penal Law;

(518) 371-8910
3844
1 6022A, by Senator Padavan, an act
2 to amend the Retirement and Social Security
3 Law;
4 6044A, by Senator Flanagan, an act
5 to amend the Civil Service Law;
6 7161B, by Senator Saland, an act to
7 amend the Public Officers Law;
8 7905A, by Senator Young, an act to
9 amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;
10 7991, by Senator Flanagan, an act
11 to amend the Penal Law;
12 8077, by Senator Morahan, an act to
13 amend the Civil Service Law;
15 to amend Chapter 830 of the Laws of 1986;
16 8287, by Senator Young, an act to

17 amend the State Administrative Procedure Act;
18 8347, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
19 amend the Real Property Law;
20 8386, by Senator Skelos, an act to
21 amend the Public Health Law;
22 8444, by Senator Griffo, an act to
23 amend Chapter 237 of the Laws of 2005;
25 amend the Tax Law;

(518) 371-8910
3845
1 8473, by Senator Leibell, an act to
2 amend the Patriot Plan;
3 And Senate Print 8484, by Senator
4 Volker, an act to amend the Public Authorities
5 Law.
6 All bills ordered direct to third
7 reading.
9 Maziarz.
10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
11 at this time we should have a motion to accept
12 the report of the Rules Committee.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: All in
14 favor of accepting the report of the Rules
15 Committee signify by saying aye.
18 Opposed, nay.
19 (No response.)
21 Rules Committee report is accepted.
22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Now we should
23 take up the noncontroversial reading of
24 Supplemental Calendar A.

(518) 371-8910
3846
1 Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial
2 reading of Supplemental Calendar 60A.
4 1853, by Senator Huntley, Senate Print 4104,
7 the last section.
10 November.
12 the roll.
16 bill is passed.
18 1893, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4854A,
19 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and
20 others.


(518) 371-8910
3847
1 the roll.
5 bill is passed.
14 the roll.
18 bill is passed.
19 Senator Maziarz.
20 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Can we just
21 laid aside Calendar Number 1895 for the day,
22 please.
24 Calendar Number 1895 is laid aside for the
25 day.
(518) 371-8910
3848
2 Calendar Number 1896, Senator DeFrancisco
4 Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities,
9 substitution is so ordered.
12 1896, by Member of the Assembly Rivera,
14 the Mental Hygiene Law.
20 the roll.
24 bill is passed.

(518) 371-8910
3849

4 the last section.
7 November.
9 the roll.
13 bill is passed.
15 1898, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6022A,
16 an act to amend the Retirement and Social
17 Security Law.
23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3850
2 bill is passed.
4 1899, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 6044A,

5 an act to amend the Civil Service Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
8 The Secretary will read the last
9 section.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
19 1900, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7161B,
20 an act to amend the Public Officers Law.

(518) 371-8910
3851
1 cull.
5 bill is passed.
7 Calendar Number 1901, Senator Young moves to

13 Substitution so ordered.
16 1901, by Member of the Assembly Stirpe,
17 Assembly Bill Number 10687A, an act to amend
18 the Agriculture and Markets Law.
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3852
3 bill is passed.
8 the last section.

11 November.
13 the roll.
17 bill is passed.
19 1903, by Senator --
20 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Please lay the
21 bill aside for the day.
23 bill is laid aside for the day.

(518) 371-8910
3853
2 1986, authorizing the State University of
3 New York.
5 the last section.
9 the roll.
13 bill is passed.
15 1905, by Senator Young, Senate Print 8287, an
16 act to amend the State Administrative
17 Procedure Act.
22 December.
24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3854
3 bill is passed.
5 1906, by Senator --
6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay that bill
7 laid aside for the day, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay the
11 1907, by --
12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay it aside
13 for the day, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay the

17 Calendar Number 1908, Senator Griffo moves to
18 discharge, from the Committee on Elections,
19 Assembly Bill Number 10088, and substitute it
23 Substitution ordered.

(518) 371-8910
3855
1 1908, by Member of the Assembly Carrozza,
3 Chapter 237 of the Laws of 2005 amending the
4 Election Law.
6 the last section.
10 the roll.
14 bill is passed.
16 1909, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 8462, an
17 act to amend the Tax Law.

23 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3856
2 bill is passed.
4 1910, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 8473,
5 an act to amend the Patriot Plan.
7 the last section.
11 the roll.
15 bill is passed.
17 1911, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 8484, an
18 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

24 the roll.

(518) 371-8910
3857
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Maziarz, that completes the
5 noncontroversial reading of the supplemental
6 calendar.
7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 There will be an immediate meeting
10 of the Rules Committee in the Majority
11 Conference Room, Room 332.
13 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
14 Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
15 Room 332.
16 The Senate stands at ease.
18 ease at 3:45 p.m.)
20 at 3:58 p.m.)
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
25 Skelos.
(518) 371-8910
3858
2 if we could return to the reports of standing
3 committees for the report of the Rules
4 Committee.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Reports
6 of standing committees.
7 From the Committee on Rules, the
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
10 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
11 following bills:
12 Senate Print 579, by Senator
13 Larkin, an act to amend the Racing,
14 Pari-Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law;
15 1282D, by Senator Maltese, an act
16 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;
17 3410, by Senator LaValle, an act to
18 amend the Public Service Law;
19 4019A, by Senator Hannon, an act to
20 amend the Public Health Law;
21 5351A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
22 amend the Public Authorities Law;
23 5366C, by Senator Little, an act to
24 amend the County Law;
25 5552B, by Senator Skelos, an act to

(518) 371-8910
3859

2 5772, by Senator Padavan, an act to
4 6479A, by Senator Lanza, an act to
6 6660A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
7 act to amend the Public Officers Law;
9 amend the Public Service Law;
10 6873, by Senator Maziarz, an act
11 providing for the creation;
12 6915, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
13 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
14 Law;
15 7062, by Senator Winner, an act to
16 amend the Executive Law;
17 7154, by Senator Stewart-Cousins,
18 an act authorizing;
19 7217A, by Senator Trunzo, an act
20 authorizing;
21 7332A, by Senator Golden, an act to
22 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
23 7434, by Senator Farley, an act to
24 amend the Banking Law;
25 7638A, by Senator Volker, an act to

(518) 371-8910
3860
1 amend the General Business Law;
2 7645, by Senator Winner, an act to
4 7664B, by Senator Maziarz, an act

5 to amend the Public Service Law;
6 7682, by Senator Young, an act to
7 amend the Highway Law;
8 7829, by Senator Leibell, an act to
10 7850A, by Senator Winner, an act to
11 amend the Executive Law;
12 8000A, by Senator Flanagan, an act
13 to amend the Retirement and Social Security
14 Law;
15 8036, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
16 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
17 8107B, by Senator Flanagan, an act
18 to authorize;
19 8307A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
20 amend the Education Law;
21 8317, by Senator Padavan, an act to
22 amend the Private Housing Finance Law;
24 to amend Chapter 581 of the Laws of 2005;
25 8392, by Senator Griffo, an act to

(518) 371-8910
3861
1 amend the Highway Law;
2 8396, by Senator Farley, an act to
3 authorize;
5 amend the Public Authorities Law;
6 8475, by Senator Morahan, an act to
7 amend the Mental Hygiene Law;

9 amend the Mental Hygiene Law;
11 to amend the Public Authorities Law;
12 8486, by Senator Young, an act in
13 relation to adjusting;
14 8500, by Senator Robach, an act to
15 amend the Correction Law and others;
16 8508, by Senator Montgomery, an act
17 to amend the Correction Law;
18 8517, by Senator Saland, an act to
19 amend the General Business Law;
20 8520, by Senator Volker, an act to
21 amend Chapter 989 of the Laws of 1958;

(518) 371-8910
3862
3 And Senate Print 8554, by Senator
4 Saland, an act to amend the Education Law.
5 All bills ordered direct to third
6 reading.
8 Skelos.
10 move to accept the report of the Rules

11 Committee.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: All in
13 favor of accepting the report of the Rules
14 Committee signify by saying aye.
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (No response.)
20 report is accepted.
21 Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go
23 to motions and resolutions.
25 Senate will return to the order of motions and

(518) 371-8910
3863
1 resolutions.
2 Senator Winner.
4 Mr. President.
5 I offer the following amendments to
6 Calendar Number 1907, Senate Print Number
7 8386, and ask that the bill retain its place
8 on the Third Reading Calendar.
13 Senator Winner.
14 SENATOR WINNER: Mr. President, I
15 offer the following amendments to Calendar
16 Number 1945, Senate Print Number 8475, and ask
17 that said bill retain its place on the Third
23 Thank you, Senator Winner.
25 Mr. President.

(518) 371-8910
3864
2 Skelos.
4 Senator Volker has a resolution at the desk,
5 6613. If we could have it read in its
6 entirety, move for its immediate adoption, and
7 open it up for cosponsorship.
10 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
11 Volker, Legislative Resolution Number 6613,
12 mourning the untimely death of journalist Tim
13 Russert, a Buffalo native and renowned host of
14 "Meet the Press."
15 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
16 Legislative Body to honor the memory of

17 cherished citizens of the State of New York
18 who distinguished themselves in their
19 profession and whose talent, wit, charm,
20 intellect and unique personality permeated all
21 they did; and
22 "WHEREAS, It is with great sorrow
23 and deep regret that this Legislative Body
24 records the passing of Timothy John Russert,
25 Jr., who died on Friday, June 13, 2008, in

(518) 371-8910
3865
1 Washington, D.C., at the age of 58; and
2 "WHEREAS, Regarded as one of the
3 best political reporters in America, Tim
4 Russert had a reputation for hard-hitting
5 coverage that cut through the spin and
6 uncovered the truth. He was one of America's
7 most influential journalists working in
8 Washington; and
9 "WHEREAS, As NBC's senior vice
10 president and Washington bureau chief, Tim
11 Russert helped shape the way today's news is
12 reported and analyzed. He was a fixture in
13 American homes on Sunday mornings and
14 especially on election nights; and
15 "WHEREAS, As managing editor and
16 moderator of 'Meet the Press' since 1991, he
17 headed one of the most popular and most
18 often-quoted news programs on the air. A
19 political analyst for 'Today,' anchor of

20 CNBC's 'The Tim Russert Show' and MSNBC
21 contributing anchor, he brought his insight
22 and intelligence to a global audience; and
23 "WHEREAS, Tim Russert's quick wit,
24 warm humor and gregarious nature shed an
25 irreverent light on the Washington scene, even

(518) 371-8910
3866
1 as he unraveled its most intricate
2 complexities; and
3 "WHEREAS, A true child of Buffalo,
4 New York, Tim Russert was born on May 7, 1950.
5 He graduated from Canisius High School, John
6 Carroll University, and with honors from
7 Cleveland-Marshall College of Law.
8 Furthermore, he was admitted to the bar in
9 both the State of New York and the District of
10 Columbia; and
11 "WHEREAS, Before joining NBC, Tim
12 Russert observed firsthand the inner workings
13 of the executive and legislative branches of
14 government as special counsel to United States
15 Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and counselor
16 to New York State Governor Mario Cuomo; and
17 "WHEREAS, Tim Russert chose to
18 honor his father and write a book about
19 growing up in blue-collar Buffalo in the 1950s
20 and 1960s. Big Russ and Me, released May 10,
21 2004, tells not of Washington insiders, but of
22 his roots and the lessons taught by his father

23 and reinforced by his neighborhood and his
24 Jesuit teachers, who taught him not what to
25 think, but how, lessons he passed on to his

(518) 371-8910
3867
1 own son, Luke; and
2 "WHEREAS, Tim Russert loved his
3 family, his faith, his country, and politics.
4 In addition to his son, Luke, he is survived
5 by his loving wife, Maureen Orth, his father,
6 Tim Russert, and his three sisters; and
7 "WHEREAS, Every citizen in New York
8 State and the nation has most certainly
9 benefitted, in one way or another, from the
10 intelligence and insight that Tim Russert
11 brought to his audience; and
12 "WHEREAS, Named by Time magazine as
13 one of the top 100 most influential people in
14 the world for 2008, Tim Russert was the
15 recipient of numerous professional awards and
16 honorary college degrees. He also won an Emmy
17 for his role in the coverage of President
18 Ronald Reagan's funeral in 2004; and
19 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body,
20 representing the people of this great Empire
21 State, remembers and honors Tim Russert's
22 purposeful life and distinguished career and
23 extends its sincere condolences to his family,
24 friends and colleagues; now, therefore, be it
25 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

(518) 371-8910
3868
1 Body pause in its deliberations to mourn the
2 untimely death of journalist Tim Russert, a
3 Buffalo native and renowned host of 'Meet the
4 Press'; and be it further
5 "RESOLVED, That copies of this
6 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
7 to the family of Tim Russert."
9 Bruno.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President and
11 colleagues, I just wanted to say a quick word
12 about Tim Russert that we are recognizing and
13 honoring here in this great chamber today.
14 I had the privilege of spending
15 some time with him on a personal level at
16 St. Rose a couple of years ago. I think he
17 was the commencement speaker and I was doing
18 something there. And I sat with him kind of
19 like -- it must have been for a couple of
20 hours before the commencement, after.
21 Do you know what struck me with
22 him? And when you read about him with Senator
23 Moynihan, you read about him working for the
24 Governor Mario Cuomo -- I was impressed that
25 he seemed to only work for Democrats. But

(518) 371-8910
3869
1 having said that -- that was humorous, Tom.

2 You know, he was so personal and
3 kind of so sharing, as well as pretty direct,
4 that I just thought to myself -- and this is a
5 great man, who mixes with the greatest -- that
6 this is a really caring, great person. And
7 that's an impression that stays with you for a
8 lifetime.
9 So all of us were grieving and are
10 grieving for his family. Because when
11 somebody leaves suddenly, it's pretty
12 traumatic and dramatic for the family. But,
13 you know, he's at peace. He lived his life --
14 I think 30 years married with his wife -- in a
15 way that really is a role model for all of us.
16 Because he could be very direct, very
17 controversial, just like some of us here in
18 this chamber. But he's a real, you could say
19 in his heart, nice guy.
20 So I just really wanted to share
21 that, to have that personal quality time with
22 somebody as great as Tim Russert.
25 you, Senator Bruno.

(518) 371-8910
3870
1 Senator Volker.
2 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
3 it is interesting that in reading the
4 resolution -- and let me explain to you why

5 the resolution is not a little longer. We
6 called NBC News, and we asked them to send us
7 material, even though of course we knew a
8 great deal about Tim, and they sent us reams
9 of material.
10 And I understand the Assembly, as
11 of this afternoon, had not yet composed of a
12 resolution because I guess they were putting
13 so much into it. But we decided that we would
14 do the resolution today. I believe they're
15 doing an honorarium today in Washington, if
16 I'm not mistaken. I have been told that the
17 actual funeral is going to be a private
18 funeral, fittingly in Buffalo.
19 But when I read the resolution,
20 there's one thing that was not in here.
21 Although, yeah, Tim did work for Governor
22 Cuomo, he came here from South Buffalo to the
23 Assembly. And that's where I first met Tim,
24 because he worked for Vince Graber. Vince a
25 close personal friend. You get close to

(518) 371-8910
3871
1 somebody when you defeat him one time and lose
2 the next.
3 And Tim and I -- or Tim became a
4 good friend of mine. In fact, I remember him
5 coming to me, this kind of chubby-faced fellow
6 from South Buffalo, who struck me immediately
7 as an affable, very capable person. He was

8 quickly -- he loved Albany, by the way. A
9 little hard to believe, but he did, because he
10 loved the political game. Of course, he loved
11 Washington more.
12 When he was here, he worked for
13 Vince Graber, did legislation and public
14 relations for him. And then of course when
15 Mario Cuomo became Governor, it was quickly
16 that he noticed that this was a person who was
17 headed for, I think, headed for greatness.
18 And he was a Democrat, there's no
19 question. But despite that fact -- and maybe
20 it's partly because my wife was a Democrat --
21 I understand the feelings of those people,
22 especially those people that come out of what
23 I call mill towns like Buffalo.
24 His father, who he called "Big
25 Russ" in his book, I met him a number of

(518) 371-8910
3872
1 times; a wonderful person. His wife is a
2 pleasure. And I think a lot of us saw Luke,
3 who is the son who appears to me to be a chip
4 off the old block, on television.
5 It's hard to speak too much about
6 Tim because so much was shown on television
7 during the last weekend. My son Mark was
8 absolutely crushed, because he and his wife
9 Alisa were such huge fans of "Meet the Press."
10 And I always felt -- and I think

11 Buffalonians, when it's a person who seems to
12 represent the values that we believe that we
13 in Buffalo represent, you cling to that. And
14 I don't care what political party he is or
15 what views he carries, Tim Russert was a
16 tough -- he was a tough negotiator, but he was
17 even more so a tough interviewer.
18 I watched some of the interviews --
19 and by the way, those interviews are with
20 Republicans, Democrats, all sorts of people.
21 He didn't discriminate against anybody. He --
22 his job was to be a reporter. And an
23 investigative reporter, you could say that, a
24 person to get out what he thought were the
25 facts. And he did.

(518) 371-8910
3873
1 He came to Albany here a number of
2 times later, and I spoke with him here about
3 his family, about the early days, and his love
4 also, by the way, for Daniel Patrick Moynihan,
5 who was a very interesting fellow. He was,
6 well, a little more liberal than some of us
7 upstate, but if you knew him and dealt with
8 him -- and I dealt with him a lot -- he was a
9 warm man who Tim Russert would gravitate to
10 because that was Tim Russert. He was very
11 much like Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
12 He never, that I ever saw, put on
13 any airs. He could walk into a building and

14 sometimes people at first didn't recognize
15 him, and he was hobnobbing and they suddenly
16 realized they were with a famous person. And
17 he was just the same in the halls of
18 Washington, in the back room here in Albany,
19 and or in a South Buffalo church or, as
20 Senator Bruno said, at St. Rose, where I think
21 he gave the speech at a graduation, I believe,
22 or something.
23 He was a great man. He was
24 Jesuit-taught, like myself, except that he
25 went to John Caroll and of course I went to

(518) 371-8910
3874
1 Canisius. He had some very close personal
2 friends who taught him; in fact, one
3 particular priest who he called every year on
4 the priest's birthday. And here's a man who
5 was probably one of the busiest men in America
6 and would call one of his teachers, a priest,
7 every year, and take the time to do that.
8 He was a gentleman, he was bright,
9 he was a very major part of the Western
10 New York community. We were always proud of
11 him. He was always proud of the Buffalo
12 Bills, the Sabres, which are intertwined in
13 our community. He was not, by the way,
14 anybody who ever talked negatively about
15 anyone, but particularly he never talked
16 negative about Western New York.

17 Of course, we're offering
18 cosponsorship to everybody in the Senate, and
19 I have a feeling nobody is going to turn it
20 down.
21 But I have to finish by saying I
22 admit that I watched "Meet the Press" with Tim
23 when I didn't watch a lot of other programs --
24 not because he was a Buffalonian or because he
25 was from New York, but because he was

(518) 371-8910
3875
1 enjoyable to watch and listen to, and he was a
2 man of character, strength.
3 And I have no doubt that he's
4 already been welcomed into heaven by the great
5 God who put us here and will decide when we
6 leave.
7 Goodbye to Tim Russert, and I wish
8 his family better times in the future.
10 Stachowski.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes,
12 Mr. President, I too would like to rise to say
13 a few words about Tim Russert.
14 I had the good fortune of knowing
15 Tim for a long, long time and found out, as I
16 was a young man in the county legislature,
17 that Tim Russert wanted to become a county
18 legislature. And at that point I found out
19 that his father and my father worked on a

20 garbage truck together. I don't know who was
21 the tosser and who was the catcher -- because
22 in those days they weren't automatic -- but
23 they worked way back.
24 And Tim had to come to my dad's
25 liquor store to ask for his support, because

(518) 371-8910
3876
1 he had part of that district. And he told
2 him, of course, "I know your dad a long time,
3 garbagemen together." And he said, "I'll tell
4 you what, I'm going to support you. And when
5 the other people turn on you, I'm still going
6 to stay with you."
7 And fortunately for Tim, my father
8 stayed with him, but the other people didn't,
9 and he didn't become a county legislator. So
10 that enabled him to follow the career path
11 that he followed, because maybe if he became a
12 county legislator, everything would have
13 turned out different. So sometimes losing is
14 winning. And in that case, in his life, not
15 becoming that legislator was the best thing
16 that could have happened to him, because
17 shortly thereafter is when he hooked up with
18 Senator Moynihan.
19 And so obviously the Senator
20 Moynihan experiment worked out extremely
21 well -- he was passing out flyers, doing
22 whatever they asked him to do, and Moynihan

23 invited him to join his staff. And Tim
24 obviously did a great job there, so good that
25 he could perfectly mimic the senator and

(518) 371-8910
3877
1 sometimes would take calls for him and people
2 didn't know they were talking to Tim Russert.
3 And obviously all of you heard this from the
4 TV all this week.
5 Ken Shapiro tells a great story.
6 Just the other day, he told me he remembered a
7 story when he was in the Assembly, you know,
8 running the show on that side, he was the
9 chief of staff for the Speaker, and Tim came
10 up from Mario's office. He had a brown bag in
11 his hand because he had to meet with Ken
12 Shapiro; it was after midnight.
13 And Ken says to him, "What have you
14 got in the bag?" He says, "Well, I brought my
15 own beer, because I know you Jewish guys don't
16 necessarily drink beer." So he's a South
17 Buffalo guy; you know, he wants his six-pack
18 to do business with.
19 But Tim definitely was a South
20 Buffalo guy, he's a Buffalo guy. Anybody that
21 wasn't sure, you just had to watch "Meet the
22 Press" during football season. He always
23 ended up every show with "Go, Bills," no
24 matter how the Bills were doing. He was a
25 true and loyal Bills supporter. He was a

(518) 371-8910
3878
1 Yankee fan -- he now became a Nationals fan,
2 because they had a team and he had season
3 tickets -- but a Yankee fan is always a Yankee
4 fan. And also a Sabre fan.
5 So Tim was a real Buffalo guy.
6 Never changed, became a major celebrity.
7 Obviously "Meet the Press" alone would have
8 been enough, but being the bureau chief, he
9 was in charge of all the people we see on
10 television and all those various news shows.
11 And if you ran into Tim, you
12 wouldn't know that he ever changed from when
13 you knew him when he was young. He was still
14 the same guy, he met you just as warmly. He
15 never changed. That's the best compliment I
16 think anybody can ever give to anybody, is
17 that the guy never changes. No matter how big
18 he became in his career, he never changed his
19 personality. And to me, that's just a real
20 tribute.
21 Obviously our hearts go out to
22 Maureen and to his son, Luke. And obviously
23 when he wrote his book about his dad, Big
24 Russ, he took a special effort and wrote a
25 chapter to his son about how much he cared

(518) 371-8910
3879
1 about his son, so his son always knew how much

2 he loved him.
3 And there's a great story that Tim
4 told about a lot of those older WWII guys,
5 they're not big "I love you" guys. My father
6 was very similar. So he used to always leave
7 for college and shake hands or come home for a
8 visit and shake hands. And one time his
9 father grabbed him and said, "I love you."
10 And he said, "What did you say?"
11 It's a great, great story he told.
12 It was after he wrote the book. That's how
13 long it took for his father to give him kind
14 of a hug and -- I mean, he always knew his dad
15 loved him, but the fact is that the words
16 don't always come out of people that were from
17 that period.
18 And I feel really touched for his
19 dad. I'm sure he feels worse than most of
20 us -- not because he lost his son; nobody
21 wants to lose a child. But one of the
22 terrible things is Tim just recently had to
23 put his dad in a home because he was having
24 trouble just functioning on his own, even
25 though his sisters would run over all the

(518) 371-8910
3880
1 time. And I'm sure that somewhere in his mind
2 he thinks that might have added to Tim's
3 problems, but I don't think it did.
4 Interestingly enough, the true

5 Bills fan came out this spring. The Bills
6 have an offensive lineman named Brad Butler.
7 The guy is 6'6", 300 and some pounds. He got
8 an internship in Washington this year, so one
9 of the things he wanted to do was meet Tim
10 Russert, because he's a University of Virginia
11 grad, followed politics all the time, and
12 thought what a fascinating thing this would
13 be, you know, I'm from the Bills and I meet
14 Russert and he can tell me all the political
15 stories.
16 So he was doing this internship
17 with Jack Kemp -- one of your guys -- and so
18 Jack arranged for him to meet Tim, and they
19 said hello, and Brad is ready to start talking
20 politics -- and all Russert wanted to talk
21 about was the Buffalo Bills, what's going on,
22 how are they going to improve, is everybody
23 healthy. Just that was Tim.
24 There's so much you could say about
25 him. As Senator Volker said, NBC sent reams

(518) 371-8910
3881
1 of things. If you watched television all
2 weekend, you turned on MSNBC, they just
3 constantly had shows running with different
4 broadcasters talking about their true
5 affection for Tim. And you could tell it was
6 real.
7 The one thing that came out that

8 was, I thought, remarkable is as busy as he
9 was, every time somebody had a baby or the
10 child had a birthday, he would send them a
11 note. And, you know, for a guy like that to
12 take the time to send a note, write it out --
13 always a handwritten note, not an email, not a
14 text, handwritten note: Congratulations on
15 your child, da-da-da-da-da.
16 And the other thing that came out
17 that I found remarkable is as everybody's
18 children were growing up, he never confused
19 any of the kids' names, knew what school they
20 were going to, and always asked about it.
21 Which to me is fascinating, because I have a
22 hard time of keeping track of whose child is
23 what, how old they are, what school they're
24 in.
25 So to me it's just all

(518) 371-8910
3882
1 complimentary things about a great
2 Buffalonian, a wonderful human being, a
3 legend, obviously, in all of our times. And
4 the best thing I can say about him is that he
5 never changed. He was always the South
6 Buffalo guy, Tim Russert, big smile on his
7 face -- serious when it was time to be
8 serious, but gregarious when it was time to
9 have a good time.
10 And the best thing I can say about

11 him is Tim Russert was a friend, and we'll all
12 miss him.
14 you, Senator Stachowski.
15 Senator Thompson.
16 SENATOR THOMPSON: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 It's with great sadness and sorrow
19 that I stand here today. Tim Russert believed
20 in Buffalo. He was a native son. He was
21 someone who believed in Western New York, also
22 believed in upstate, in addition to New York
23 as a whole.
24 He was a great ambassador. As many
25 of my colleagues have talked about today,

(518) 371-8910
3883
1 every chance he had to go beyond his
2 unofficial call of duty to promote New York,
3 but also Buffalo, he did that.
4 I think for so many people, many
5 people from working-class roots, he
6 represented the promise, the hope of what hard
7 work and a good education could do for you.
8 And sometimes we -- we never know
9 when our time is going to come, and we never
10 know who we inspire along the way. And I --
11 it just won't be the same watching that
12 program on Sunday mornings. Because I know
13 when I was in college, I know when I got out

14 of college, I know before I got elected to
15 office, every one of us have that
16 political-critic kind of mindset where we
17 watch the shows and we think about the issues
18 and then we debate them.
19 And I think that Tim always was --
20 he was good, he was someone that inspired so
21 many people, and he was a fair and balanced
22 journalist.
23 And so today I stand with great
24 humbleness but also with great sadness as
25 well, because this is not only a loss for his

(518) 371-8910
3884
1 family, not only a loss for Western New York
2 and particularly for Buffalo, but it's a loss
3 for the country.
4 But one of the things I think
5 that's also important to note is that there
6 will be young people who knew he was from
7 Buffalo and from New York who will say that if
8 he could make it, they could make it too. And
9 sometimes in life we forget that story. We
10 forget about those young people who are
11 struggling to make it, who come from very
12 humble beginnings.
13 And I think that many people have
14 been inspired, and many young people who are
15 trying to figure out this guy is from upstate,
16 this guy is from Buffalo, they will look at

17 this situation and say that if he did it, I
18 can too. I can too.
19 And that's what leadership is
20 about. Whether you're in the public sector or
21 the private sector, it's the capacity to
22 motivate people and to inspire people. And I
23 can truly say that I was inspired by him, and
24 I know that so many other people were inspired
25 by him as well. And he will truly, truly be

(518) 371-8910
3885
1 missed as well.
2 God bless him and his family.
4 you, Senator Thompson.
5 Senator Rath.
6 SENATOR RATH: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 So much has been said, and I will
9 repeat a couple of the themes briefly as we
10 say our goodbyes officially to Tim Russert.
11 About a week ago we spoke in this
12 chamber about our colleague Jimmy Griffin.
13 They were from the same place. They were cut
14 from the same cloth. Direct, honest, South
15 Buffalo Irish, and you knew where they were
16 coming from all the time.
17 Tim Russert, his directness became
18 a part of "Meet the Press," and such an
19 endearing part. Of course his lyrical Irish

20 personality and his quickness with words
21 blended with all of his directness. When he
22 would look into the camera, he was talking to
23 each of us. We knew that. When he was
24 interviewing one of the folks across the desk
25 from him, he was right into his eyes, and we

(518) 371-8910
3886
1 knew that he was expecting the truth and
2 expecting accountability.
3 A couple of anecdotes, one in
4 particular that maybe you didn't hear over the
5 weekend as so much of it was being said. Tim
6 apparently wanted to buy his father a car, a
7 nice automobile. He said: Dad always had a
8 car, but it was never really very much, and I
9 thought, I'm going to get him a really, really
10 nice car.
11 So he said to Big Russ, "Let's go
12 car shopping, and I'm going to get you a Lexus
13 or get you a BMW -- something really nice."
14 And Big Russ said no, he wanted a Crown Vic.
15 And Tim apparently said to his
16 father, "Now, Dad, it's a police car. It's a
17 nice car, but, you know, let me get you
18 something really nice."
19 And Big Russ said to Tim: "Tim,
20 you think I'm going to take one of those
21 foreign cars down to the VFW post on a Friday
22 night to see the guys? How am I going to

23 explain that? My kid makes it big in
24 Washington, and now I'm going to be a big
25 shot."

(518) 371-8910
3887
1 And Tim Russert looked directly
2 into the camera and said: "There were always
3 more lessons to learn from Big Russ."
4 And I think that struck home with
5 all of us who understood where Big Russ was
6 coming from and where Tim was coming from as
7 his son.
8 And so thank you to Big Russ and to
9 Mrs. Russert, who raised a wonderful family of
10 responsible young people who were part of what
11 the values of Western New York are. I heard
12 it in Senator Thompson and Senator Stachowski
13 and Senator Volker.
14 Our people, we know who we are in
15 Western New York. Our kids go to Denver, they
16 go to Boston, they go to Atlanta. Ten years
17 later, they have children, they come home,
18 they want to raise their children at home
19 because we know what the values are, we know
20 what the value system is, we know what to
21 expect of each other.
22 And Tim Russert was one of those
23 people. He knew what to expect back home, and
24 we knew where he was and who he was and how
25 proud he was of what Buffalo had meant to him.

(518) 371-8910
3888
1 And how proud we are from Buffalo to have had
2 Tim Russert as one of our favorite sons.
3 And next year -- I would predict
4 next year's future -- the Bills are going to
5 do much better, because they're going to have
6 a cheerleader over on the other side who's got
7 a lot more power in his cheers than we have in
8 ours, and we'll be hearing "Go, Bills" coming
9 from the heavenly halls.
10 Thanks for the life of Tim Russert.
12 you, Senator Rath.
13 At this time I'd like to ask all
14 the members in the chamber to please rise in a
15 moment of silent tribute and reflection for
16 the late Timothy J. Russert of Buffalo,
17 New York.
18 (Whereupon, the assemblage rose and
19 respected a moment of silence.)
21 question is on the resolution. All in favor
22 signify by saying aye.
25 Opposed, nay.

(518) 371-8910
3889
1 (No response.)
3 resolution is carried.
4 Everyone is welcome to be a
5 cosponsor. If you are not interested, please
6 notify the desk.
7 Senator Robach.
8 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes,
9 Mr. President. I believe we have some
10 housekeeping at the desk.
12 Farley.
14 Mr. President.
15 On behalf of Senator Winner, on
16 page 51 I offer the following amendments to
17 Calendar Number 1342, Senate Print 6262A, and
18 I ask that that bill retain its place on the
19 Third Reading Calendar.
24 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
25 Senator Winner again, on page 62, I offer the

(518) 371-8910
3890
1 following amendments to Calendar Number 1802,
2 Senate Print 7490A, and I ask that that bill
3 retain its place on the Third Reading
4 Calendar.
8 Reading Calendar.
9 Senator Robach.
10 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes,
11 Mr. President. Is there any further business
12 at the desk?
14 is none.
15 SENATOR ROBACH: Then I move we
16 stand adjourned until Wednesday, June 18th, at
17 11:00 a.m.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On
19 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
20 Wednesday, June 18th, at 11:00 a.m.
21 (Whereupon, at 4:33 p.m., the
22 Senate adjourned.)
23
24
25

(518) 371-8910

June 17, 2008

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

You might also like

June 17, 2008

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Description:

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

June 17, 2008

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

Top of Form 1

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

9 ALBANY, NEW YORK

10 June 17, 2008

18 SENATOR THOMAS W. LIBOUS, Acting President

19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The

3 Senate will come to order.

4 I ask everyone present to please

5 rise and repeat after me the Pledge of

7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: To give

10 the invocation this morning is Reverend

11 Matthew Smith, pastor of Faith Baptist Church

13 REVEREND SMITH: Let us pray.

14 Almighty God and Eternal Father,

15 You are the mighty King of Kings and Lord of

16 Lords. Your kingdom is an everlasting

17 kingdom, and Your dominion is from generation

19 Today we acknowledge Your great

20 sovereignty, that You do according to Your

21 Will in the host of heaven and among the

22 inhabitants of the earth.

23 We give You thanks for revealing

24 Your glory among the nations and for giving us

25 the opportunity to cherish the freedoms that

1 You have provided for us as citizens of this

2 country and this great state.

3 We thank You for each of the

4 members of this honorable Senate that You have

5 called to represent Your people. We thank You

6 for their families and their staff, and we ask

7 that the light of Your divine wisdom direct

8 their deliberations and shine forth in all

9 their proceedings -- the bills, the

10 resolutions framed by them.

11 Grant them the fortitude to make

12 decisions and lead our state in a way that

13 pleases You. May those who serve in this body

14 be enabled by Your powerful protection to

15 discharge their duties with honesty and

16 integrity. Give them strength of body and

17 mind and boldness to stand for what is right

19 May they seek to preserve peace,

20 protect life, promote happiness, and continue

21 to bring us the blessings of liberty and

22 justice for all.

23 Today we implore the assistance of

24 heaven and ask that Your will always be done

25 in our state and that Your love always abound

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

1 in our hearts, for to You belong the

4 And I ask this in the name above

5 all names, the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Reading