“Italy is one”: An asylum

seeker’s experience and

impression about Italians’
attitude towards Blacks

Darasimi Oshodi
PhD Student
University of Milano-Bicocca
 Outline

Introduction

Research objective

Literature Review

Theory of recognition

Theory of recognition and adult education

Methodology and Context

Analysis
 This study is part of my PhD research

I am carrying out a narrative research on the

learning experiences of asylum seekers in Italy
Introduction
My research participants are only Black asylum
seekers (mainly from Nigeria)

My PhD research draws on Axel Honneth’s theory

of recognition
Research objectives

To
explore:
the perception of a Black
asylum seeker about Italians

how these perceptions were

formed
 Literature Review: Macro context of the study

A significant part of migrants’

Refugees have always found the
learning in the literature is language
societal structures of the host society
Thus, adult learning and education is learning (Andersson & Fejes, 2010;
stacked against them and so find it
a means for migrants to feel a sense Dalziel & Piazzoli, 2018; Damiani,
difficult to successfully insert
of belonging (Thurnborg et al., 2021) 2019; Fejes (2019); Fejes &
themselves into the new society
Dahlstedt (2017); Souto-Otero
(Kansteiner 2018)
&Villalba-Garcia, 2015).

The EU has policies on migrants’

One of the EU’s learning The LIAM promotes the idea of
learning. One of such is the Language
programmes is the Linguistic treating migrants with respect while
Policy Programme which outlines
Integration of Adult Migrants teaching them the language of the
linguistic integration actions for adult
(LIAM) project (Beacco et al., 2014) host society (Beacco et al., 2014)
migrants.
Theory of recognition
When an individual is
accorded the recognition they
Social relations are regulated by mutual
feel they deserve, it can help
recognition or intersubjective recognition
them to develop a positive
relation to self
Three forms or spheres of
recognition: love, rights and
social esteem.
These forms of intersubjective
recognition are the conditions
that can aid an individual’s
self-realisation or development
of positive self-identity
 The task of adult education is to promote a society of where love, caring and
reciprocal recognition exist, allowing each individual to be able to develop a
healthy relation to self and work towards self-realisation and flourishing (Huttunen,
2007)

“To understand the relationship between adult education and recognition, there is a
Theory of need to understand the students’ relationship to family (love), society/the state
(rights) and the job market (solidarity)” (Sandberg, 2016, p. 270).

recognition
and adult Care and concern (recognition in the sphere of love) shown by significant others
(lecturers in this case) in the classroom situation can contribute to an individual’s
development (West, 2014)
education
Self-confidence can be bolstered when a learner feels accepted by lecturers and
significant others; self-respect can be reinforced when a person is accorded the
status of a student with similar capabilities as others; and self-esteem may emanate
from the sense of being honoured in the educational environment (West et al.,
2013)
 Methodology and Context
• I employed narrative method with an interpretative approach (Bochner & Herrmann, 2020).
• Conducted a narrative interview with Tamuno, an asylum seeker in the Lombardia region
of Italy
• Throughout the interview, we switched between standard English and Nigerian Pidgin
English
• The interview was transcribed and analysed in order to arrive at an understanding
• I am aware that his perception of me, how I asked questions and the relationship between us
shaped the stories told me.
• I tried to be reflexive in my analysis of the interview, asking myself how it was shaped by
my memories of it, my own experience and identity as a Black man and PhD student with
funding and who came into Italy with a visa, and how oppression, recognition, and
privileges may clash, in our stories.
ANALYSI
S
 • Tamuno arrived in Italy in May 2018. Previously he had lived in Libya for many years.
His latter years in Libya were harrowing as he was kidnapped and thrown in a dungeon
by his captors who asked him to call his family for ransom but he refused.
• He and others escaped from the dungeon with others when fighting broke out in Libya
and he found his way to Italy.
• He was not satisfied with what he observed in his first few days in Italy and he decided to
go to Germany. He was stopped by the police in Switzerland and brought back to Italy.

Meet Tamuno
• It was after his attempt to go to Germany failed that he started attending language
classes. He was enrolled in language school by camp operators.
• He performed well in the language class. After completion of the language class, he
proceeded to middle school (terza media).
• He had mixed experiences with teachers in both language class and middle school.
• He has also lived in different asylum accommodations (or camps, as they are popularly
called) and his experiences have been mixed as well.
• At the time of the interview, he was about to start high school and also start
apprenticeship as a welder.
Arrival in Italy
Tamuno narrated that he arrived in Italy from Libya in May 2018. He arrived at Sicilia where he
was placed in a camp. He noticed that most of the people in the camp were not going to school but
were going out to beg which was not the kind of life he wanted, so he left Sicilia with the hope of
going to Germany which he had heard was better than Italy. Tamuno’s decision to go to Germany
was informed by what he was told by other asylum seekers. This shows how pivotal informal
learning is to asylum seekers’ lives and decision making. A lot of learning apparently takes place
among peers, that is, when asylum seekers, as any other group of migrants, encounter one another
and exchange information. On his way to Germany, Tamuno was stopped by the police in
Switzerland and was brought back to Como in the northern part of Italy. He was later transferred
to a camp in Lecco in the Lombardia region of Italy where after some months, he was registered in
CPIA.
Motivation for learning: communication
Tamuno was told by camp operators that learning Italian was necessary for communication and for him to achieve his
life’s dreams in Italy. This apparently served as motivations for him to attend Italian language classes.
…So, on my way going to Germany, police controlled me from Switzerland and they take me back to
Italy. So, when they take me back to Italy, I spent some days in Como, a place called Como in a state
called Lombardia. So, from that Como they transferred me to Lecco. So, from Lecco I stayed Lecco
for some months before the camp they keep me those people are enable to send me to school before I
continue school
Okay. The… The… The… The camp sent you or they were unable to send you?
They sent me.
They sent you
They ask me, “What do you want to do?”
Okay
I told them what I want to do. So, they said, “Okay. First, you will start Italian school. When you start
learning Italian, this is a way of communicating with people. You will be able to communicate with us,
we will be able to communicate with you because Italy don’t speak English.” So… because I speak
English… So… “Then you will be able to choose the road and your dream, what you want to face in life
and continue with that. So, because you are enable to speak English,” Italian language sorry.
 Motivation for learning: gaining control
Experiences in camp, such as lack of freedom and deprivation induced painful feelings, and this made him resolve to take every opportunity that
may present itself for him to go to school. Tamuno saw language learning and formal education as his way out of dependency and regain control of
his life. He probably thought that learning the language and getting an education will help him secure a good job and thus be able to afford to rent
his own accommodation and live the way he would like to live.
Like my first day in Lecco, when I stayed in Lecco, it’s not easy because you know, even your own, like blood brother
cannot take care of you the way you want. So, living a house of people that said… Most times Italy said… They
said… There was a day like I feel pain in this country, like someone deciding for you; tell you, “As far as you are in
my country, I decide what will happen to you not you deciding for me.” So, I was like “I’m still under slave. So, I need to
work hard on myself.” So, they decide what I will do. They decide what I will not do. So, but… even to an extent they
stop paying me money because that first time, they told me that they will be giving me 40 euro every month. So, there
was a period… I receive that money, let’s say two times but I did not receive it with my hand. They said that they will
give me the money; whatever I want to buy, I should tell them. So, they will be keeping the money for me in the
office. I said “Okay, no problem.” So, after two months, I see that the money is no more again. So…
Is that…? That is in camp abi?
Yeah, that’s in camp
The camp in Lecco?
Yeah, yeah. The camp in Lecco. So that’s how I began to push my life. So, I said, “As far sey I am opportune to go to
school, let me continue school.”
 Experiences of recognition
Tamuno narrated that his teachers in the language school in Lecco were supportive and showed interest in his learning progress.
Even when he was transferred to another camp which led to him leaving the school, he still kept contact with his former teachers
who would send him lessons exercises to do.
The teachers are good. The teachers are good. The teachers are good. I can say they are good because like
me now, like every school, I believe every school have their own law, their time, and all that, break period
and all that. I believe that me, if I respect your law, you will respect me... So, I respect you, respect me.
“Good morning.” “Good morning, teacher. How are you?” “Are you here?” “Yes.” “Sit down.” I go to my
seat and sit down. I will wait for the time of the lecture. I listen to the lecture. I ask questions where I did
not understand. Like maybe there’s a thing that I did not like understand. I can bring it to the break
period. I will tell the teacher like, “How this thing? How is it this thing? I did not understand. That yesterday
lesson, it was this. It was that but today, I did not understand anymore. I don’t know.” He will say, “No, this is
the step. This is the step you have to take.” So like me and the teacher began to be friend. Like even if you
are a teacher, you see someone like challenging you, I can’t say it’s challenge now, like doing what you ask
him to do, you develop some like interest to help him out. So, I believe… Like the teachers there, even
when I told them that I’m going out, dem like, “Why?” I told them, “I got transfer. I’m not at Lecco again.
I’m going back to Monza.” So dem say, “Eeyah, eeyah.” Even most of the teachers, when I arrived here, I
told them I want to like speak Italian the more. They say, “You are okay now.” I told them, “No, no, no.”
So sometimes they send me message, I don’t have their number. So, most of them, they send me message
Experiences of misrecognition and disrespect
Treating students like children
Yeah, like me, I saw some teachers. The manners… like there is a teacher, I will not
call her name there in CPIA. I will not call her name. So, like the way she talk to
student is not no, no, no. It’s not… Because if the student began to talk to her the
way she talk, there will be argument. There will be problem in the school. So, she
talk to you like, I don’t care. If you want to stay, stay. If you don’t want to stay, go
your house. So, to me it’s not manner, because like there are some people, they are
matured, they don’t need those words. They are not your baby. They are not your
children. So, you talk to student in a good manner way because the way you talk to
me is the way I will respond to you. So, if you talk to me maybe in a way I don’t
like, maybe if I’m rude, I will respond to you in a rude way. So that’s it. There are
some.
Experiences of misrecognition and disrespect
Use of racial slurs
Tamuno had an angry exchange with the teacher one time when she made a racist remark about another
student. According to Tamuno, he challenged the teacher for uttering such an expression. From that point,
he never had a good relationship with the teacher.
…there is one Nigerian girl that is always come to school. There is a time that girl began… There was a
day that girl stand up… stood up to go and ease herself in the bathroom. The teacher said no. So… The
girl don’t know how to speak Italy but the girl has lived in Italy for five years but she refuse to go to school
in the initial place. So, the girl was like… she sat down, like respect. Okay. The girl told me where we are
sitting, “Tamuno…” He called my name. He said, “I want to ease myself.’ I say, “Go now.” He say, “The
teacher said, “No.” I say, “Stand up. Go again.” He stand up. She stood up. The teacher ask her to sit down.
… I called her again. I said, “Stand up, dey go. Go ease yourself. If you reach dia, open door. Go ease
yourself. You can’t ease yourself in your body. So, it’s not fair. Some people can’t hold piss. Some can hold but
you can’t.” So that’s how the girl left. So, before the… when the girl left, the teacher was like talking,
“Where are you going? Where are you going?” with Italy. The girl don’t understand Italy… Was like
insulting her. So, I understand the insult. So that’s how I respond her. I began to respond her, “Why would
you do that?” He said, “Hey, I didn’t call you.” I said, “If you didn’t call me who cares? Non mi interessa.”
Mutual disrespect
This teacher lost Tamuno’s respect. He told her he could not respect her since she did not
respect others. Thus, Tamuno did not give her the respect she expected from him. This shows
how recognition is intersubjective.
…We began to exchange words. She took her phone. She call my house and said I
don’t… I disturb… She didn’t even talk what I want to hear. She said I always
disturb her class. So, I felt bad about it… So, we reach the class the next day, I don’t
talk to the teacher. I only sat down for the class to close… When I come in the day
again, I sat down. She… I don’t ask her question again because I have that grudges
in me. I will not lie you. I have that grudges in me. So that’s how we began to live.
After some days, she called me. She said, “What is the problem?” That she sees it that
I am not happy with her. I told her “No, I’m okay.” She said, “No, you are not okay.”
So, I was like holding my phone. She said, “I’m talking to you, you are pressing
phone.” So, I said… I look at her. I said, “Do you respect people? How will I respect
you? Like you should respect people, I will respect you. So, if you respect people I will
respect you but when you don’t respect people I can’t respect you”
 Italy is one – A chauvinistic mantra?
I asked Tamuno if it was not possible to report teachers who treated students wrong, he replied
that reporting such teachers would not yield any result. He explained his reasons for saying so.
Like people say Italy are one and Italy call them Italy Uno. They always say Italy is one. So, most people has
complained even in camp, people that stayed in camp, like for example now, I’m staying in camp. Like there’s some
things my workers is doing. I talk to maybe the boss of the house, tell him this thing is not good. Look at what this
person did. Instead of that worker… I have never seen any Black being supported even during my stay of Italy, my
camp, my school or anywhere or anywhere I enter, Black get problem with Italy, Italy man will support Black.
Even if the Italian is wrong?
He will still let you understand that, “Okay, let’s resettle it” but he will never agree that that Italian person is wrong.
I don’t know if he would caution the person at back o but at that present you suppose to resolve the issue, “You,
this is what you do. It’s not good. This is…” But he will never support you. He will support that Black that whatever
he did is the right thing? So, he can never… I have never seen it. I don’t know of people but me, I’m talking from
my own experience. I’ve never seen it. Even as of last month, I requested something from our worker. He said, “No,
I can’t give it to you.” I say, “But this is not according to wetin we sign.” He say, “No.” So what did I have to do? I
have to… When he left… Because they don’t use to pay me, - even where I was before – I have to like go and ask
for help from another person. So, when the person help me, they notice it that person help me. So, the worker…
the boss said… called me and be shouting at me, why will I go outside and ask for help?
 Italy is one – A chauvinistic mantra?
Tamuno claimed that reporting an Italian over a wrong done to a Black person is an exercise in futility a
nothing will be done about it. He claimed that Italians have a solidarity that makes them support each
other over Blacks even when an Italian is clearly in the wrong. He narrated that this solidarity is expressed
in the mantra “Italia uno” which translates to “Italy is one”. He also narrated that one of his friends told
him Italians would never admit a wrongdoing against a Black person. They would also support each othe
against a Black person.
So, the boy now called me back…. I now called him back. I said, “I’m sorry if they
called you. Maybe they talked to you in a manner you don’t like.” The boy tell me
“No, no problem. Even if you need something today again, still call me because I
know them. They will deny of what they talk. I know.” The boy said, “I’m working
with… I work with Italy. I came here. I’m in this country for ten years before you. So
there is nothing you will tell me about this country. Italia Uno, you no dey hear am fo
television?” When he tell dat word, I say I dey hear am. So, Italia Uno. That i
 Italy is one – A chauvinistic mantra?
He narrated another story of a teacher in middle school who was disrespectful.
According to him, “she don’t have manner”.
….He say, “Even that boy don’t know you. You are even more cativ, more bad than the
experience of that boy because I started school before that boy.” So, everybody start laughing
in the office. So… Instead of them to support, like we… they still try to like, “Human being
are like that” because it’s still their people. They still cover her. They didn’t say anything o
or report to school, anything o, say these people are complaining. Because if it’s Italian – I
stay with Italians – they will call school. They will tell school, “These people are
complaining. Investigate this person. So, if there is a manner… at least calm her down. Let
her know sey this is school” and all that but they will not. They didn’t do that.
Instead of investigating students’ complaints about this teacher, Tamuno narrates that her behaviour
was excused by his camp officials as human behaviour. He believes this is because the students who
made the complaints are Black and would not get justice. He claims that if Italians made the same
complaints, the outcome would have been different. for him.
Conclusion
• What shapes migrants’ perception of Italy and Italians? From Tamuno’s narrative and from my personal
experiences, it is a combination of what migrants hear and personal experiences.
• I have not had any major conflict with an Italian except for a period when a particular neighbour kept
making incessant complaints to the concierges of our hostel that I was disturbing her with music. I
complained about her attitude which I thought was racist and it was promptly addressed.
• Why was my experience different from Tamuno’s? Is it because I am a PhD while Tamuno is an asylum
seeker?
• Is an asylum seeker seen as vulnerable and who could be taken advantage of while in my case the university
frowns at racism and seeks to ensure equality treatment for all regardless of nationality or pigmentation?
• Just like me, Tamuno’s perception about Italian’s attitude towards a Black person’s request for justice might
have initially been influenced by what he was told, but he has personally witnessed justice denied him and
others because of they are Black. This makes it experiential for him.
• Tamuno has not presented himself as a helpless asylum seeker. He spoke out at times against perceived
wrongs done to him or a fellow Black person.
 The impact of informal learning for migrants is
also evident in this study. A lot of the things
migrants, not the least asylum seekers, learn are
acquired informally. This shows that focus
should not be solely placed on migrants’ formal
Conclusion and non-formal learning alone. In fact, it seems
when it comes to perceptions that migrants
form about the new society in which they have
found themselves, informal learning plays the
major role in shaping such perceptions.